Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
Helping people != supporting competing product. I will *not* wonder getting support from FreeBSD or OpenBSD community. You *are* not wonder getting support from e.g. Alan Coopersmith - Sol 11 Express developer (AFAIK). Any FOSS initiative has it's roots in helping people. - previous message - I do not think that a FOSS project community has any moral imperative to act as a support channel for a commercial product. Nor another competing FOSS project, for that matter. To illustrate, I think most would agree that it would be impolite at the minimum, if not downright ludicrous, for me to expect support for FreeBSD from an OpenBSD list just because they both derive from a common heritage. / There hasn't been a hostile attitude so far and we shouldn't start now! // // So lets agree to all be friendly to each other. / Bayard put it well. I think politely pointing S11 users to appropriate support channels would fall under the umbrella of friendliness. If for whatever reason, those channels don't meet their needs, then they should take that under consideration when choosing an OS platform. To reiterate, lest some misinterpret, this does not equate to, nor advocate, hostility. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
As a relative newbie this strikes me as an opportunity to both show people that OI exists and is a woth while OS to use and provide a repository of useful info and fixes for problems. I totally agree that we should not be providing support for Oracle - that is the decisions made when the support from OSOL ended. But how about looking at an answer from the perspective of ...sorry mate cannot advice you on Sol express because... not supported etc... but if you were using OI this is how This way the mail list shows how supportive it can be to OI users and provides everyone to fixes for problems. HH ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
Le 06/03/2011 11:28, hairryharry a écrit : As a relative newbie this strikes me as an opportunity to both show people that OI exists and is a woth while OS to use and provide a repository of useful info and fixes for problems. I totally agree that we should not be providing support for Oracle - that is the decisions made when the support from OSOL ended. But how about looking at an answer from the perspective of ...sorry mate cannot advice you on Sol express because... not supported etc... but if you were using OI this is how This way the mail list shows how supportive it can be to OI users and provides everyone to fixes for problems. Hello, I fully agree. As a matter of fact, I'm myself running solaris 1 express for the time being... waiting to try the next openindiana version - when it's ready. I fully support openindiana but I don't think most of the people using solaris 11 express consider themselves on the other branch of the fork. They just got it for free and keep experimenting each new [open]solaris||indiana, like I myself have been doing since snv_75. So helping these people is, in my opinion, unwelcome, especially as the compatibility between solaris 11 and openindiana is still extremely high (and I hope it remains so). Openindiana team, thanks for your work, anyway, and keep going. Bruno ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
With all due respect, I think this starts from a bad premise and arrives at bad conclusions. The matter originally in question may be understood by a further analogy: it's a bit like jumping onto a list for C++ developers with a question about using an LDAP API in C. Sure, there might be people who know the answer on that list, possibly even a reasonable expectation that you might find that kind of overlap, but it's also asking people to be gracious to answer in that forum. If someone tells you that you'd be better off asking the question in a forum that's more problem-specific, that doesn't amount to there being a sign on the door saying that C developers and all others foreign to the C++ tribe aren't welcome. On the other hand, suggesting that you've got doubts about these people as C++ developers because they won't answer your question in that forum seems needlessly controversial, possibly though not necessarily a bit cheap. These are reasonable norms of netiquette: people who wear many hats may direct you to ask a question in a different forum and then be the person who answers that question when the redirect is made by the original poster. That's not rude or unhelpful: the person asking the question for the first time may face some latency and be a bit confused by standing on formalities, but the question may already be in the archive of the correct forum or will be more readily found there subsequently. I find Google queries get me a lot further when I not only know the search terms but know where to search via site: specification. It may be a little anal to point out these pragmatics, but it's not hostile, kicking someone off or calling them names, as I'd hope you'd concede after suggesting otherwise. Now, you raise Alan's contributions here, and they shouldn't go unacknowledged or fail to receive due credit. They also shouldn't be taken for something they aren't, which doesn't bear comparison here on the terms you suggest. Alan isn't answering how do I use OpenIndiana questions based on his understanding of continuing Solaris development at Oracle, he's giving people an understanding of how certain things came to pass in Solaris and outlining how changes relevant above all to X, packaging, and release management are happening in Solaris 11 post-fork, all of which is important and useful (and more concisely described by him as color commentary). I expect that if Alan spent a considerable amount of time on the OpenIndiana list answering end-user questions, his employers might have a problem with that and tell him he either needs to focus on his current job or find a new one more willing to support his evident interest in OpenIndiana. Let me hasten to say that example is valid in a context beyond Alan as a paid employee of a software-producing corporation: there is a general question of focus, commitment, and reliability here that is no less fundamental than the notion of helping. It may be true that FOSS projects have their roots in helping people, but it has been my experience that these communities work because they rarely stray from their lanes to provide help under more abstract imperatives rather than weighing them as pragmatic considerations and communicating them as such. I might put this another way: would it be considered sustainable for OpenIndiana to tell prospective users to go ahead and adopt Solaris 11 Express while the kinks in OpenIndiana are worked out, with the expectation that they will be supported by the OpenIndiana community and given a cross-grade path across the fork? I think that's a bad premise leading to unsustainable commitments (for that matter, I wouldn't encourage anyone to deploy Solaris 11 Express without buying a support package to get patches), so I would argue it's better to be clear about not offering such support than to try to satisfy the expectations from making even an implicit commitment to that effect. What we're arguing isn't to help or not to help, it's what level of help is reasonable to expect and communicate as reasonable. I'm not saying that mine are the only possible or valid conclusions, but it seems to me deeply misconceived to take conclusions based on these pragmatics for hostile or unhelpful without giving them due consideration or even acknowledgement. We can disagree about what conclusions to draw, but it seems that the remarks you've offered don't engage these essentials. On 6 Mar 2011, at 09:10, Dmitry G. Kozhinov wrote: Helping people != supporting competing product. I will *not* wonder getting support from FreeBSD or OpenBSD community. You *are* not wonder getting support from e.g. Alan Coopersmith - Sol 11 Express developer (AFAIK). Any FOSS initiative has it's roots in helping people. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
But how about looking at an answer from the perspective of ...sorry mate cannot advice you on Sol express because... not supported etc... but if you were using OI this is how Not exactly the wording I would use, but I like the idea very much! This way we could attract people. In addition, this person has asked something that is interesting, while there are people who ask things like how can I delete a folder? and in no time he/she gets zillions of replies... A.S. -- Apostolos Syropoulos Xanthi, Greece ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
On Sun, 2011-03-06 at 09:58 -0500, weknox wrote: Two points I believe are germane: 1. This is a tempest in a teapot. Get outside and plant some flowers. It's Spring, or at least nearly so. 2. WTF? There is no moral obligation to help? There is *always* a moral obligation to help someone in distress - or one who simply needs help - in a caring community. If someone is reading and writing on this list then they obviously belong to us, at least at this point in time. Give them a hand. Granted, there may be some point in time when the users are too numerous here that posts may need to be edited but I don't think that's today - otherwise we wouldn't all be stirring this little teapot so vigorously. Don't allow your irritation at Oracle (or Sun) from interfering with our new community. Talk about a tempest in a teapot - and then go on to extend my comment about moral imperative to act as a support channel for commercial product to turning a blind eye to someone in distress. Get some perspective here. The OP asked a question, to which they did not receive an adequate answer. Two posters made a couple gruff remarks about this not being the most appropriate forum for the query at hand, for which they apologized. Later posters then edited my post to omit my actual text and also took what I did say out of context in an apparently thinly guised effort to rebuke my supposed villany and make mountains out of mole hills. So I'll set the record straight and then be done with this drama. I did not say anything about not being helpful. Pointing someone to the most appropriate forum/repository of requisite expertise is being helpful, even if worded a bit caustically or grumpily. Politely pointing - my actual verbiage - people thusly is being both helpful and friendly. And, it may well be argued, more effective, especially when the quick answer was not to be had here. Peace-- ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
On 03/05/11 09:31, Robert Soubie wrote: Hi, I have built a ZFS homeserver for Windows machines using Solaris Express 11; also a non-ZFS backup machine using Windows 7 and big disks concatenated under a RAID controller. The backup program I am using does not see the network ZFS server, because apparently, SEx 11 does not broadcast its name. Currently, the server (\\SEx_ZFS) has been mapped to a drive letter, Z:, and this is what I backup. How can I have the server broadcast its name? Thanks in advance, Robert Hi, I mainly use solaris to develop, so I have not really tested its networking, however, I think samba is needed so Windows can interoperate with Unix. http://www.samba.org/ -- Regards, Edward ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
Hi, I mainly use solaris to develop, so I have not really tested its networking, however, I think samba is needed so Windows can interoperate with Unix. Sorry to barge out on this, but if you don't have a clue about how OpenIndiana or newer Solaris handles SMB/CIFS, please don't answer to such questions. FYI OpenSolaris and later versions/forks use an in-kernel CIFS server for this sort of things. Vennlige hilsener / Best regards roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 r...@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
There's a fork in the road, and you're asking people who've gone down the other fork for directions. You might reasonably expect those directions to start with: go back to the fork and go the other way, and, failing that, to ask a traveller who's taken the same fork as you. That response doesn't want for courtesy or respect. On 5 Mar 2011, at 21:28, Robert Soubie wrote: Le 05/03/2011 18:43, Alasdair Lumsden a écrit : This list is for discussion of OpenIndiana rather than to provide support for Solaris 11 Express. If Oracle are failing to provide community support channels, you might want to take this up with them. Thanks for your kind answer. I am not an Oracle consumer. I am running a home ZFS server under Solaris Express 11 because this was what worked for me at the time I built the server, around November 15th, 2010, at a time when, according to my experience, OpenIndiana was all but stable, and, for any reason, I couldn't make Nexenta work for me either. Since SEx 11 worked - and has worked reliably so far - I decided to use that for a while, in hope OpenIndiana would become usable for my purposes. In the process I learnt everything I know on *nix, and on Solaris in particular. Obviously this is not much. When I switch back to a non-commercial OS (assuming SEx 11 *is* commercial), I'll have to make a choice between OpenIndiana and, say, FreeBSD. One of the criteria I'll use will surely be the willingness of people to provide help to neophytes. Back to my initial concern, I fail to see why a question on how to best backup a ZFS server could be off-topic. Regards. -- Éditions de l'Âge d'Or — Stanley G. Weinbaum http://www.lulu.com/robert_soubie ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
On 5 Mar 2011, at 22:25, Dmitry G. Kozhinov wrote: We all (OpenIndiana and Solaris users) are using technology created by Sun. Why not be just helpful? There are Oracle employees here at the list providing very helpful information - you call the names. There are Linux and FreeBSD users here. Why kick them off? Why setting a hostile attitude here? There hasn't been a hostile attitude so far and we shouldn't start now! So lets agree to all be friendly to each other. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
