Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 5:16 PM Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss < openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: > > I did just that. I hit "install" took the defaults, did a reboot and got > "non-system disk or disk error". Z840 and 4 TB disk. 1) Try a disk under 2 TB 2) Set the BIOS to legacy boot after installation I got that result with both 2020.10.31 and 2021.04.30. What I did is > *exactly* what most new users would do. I just checked the other stuff to > see if the image was consistent with the instructions. > > My first step in building a new system is to do the most basic default > install, see what it does and then go from there. > > Reg > > > > On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 02:59:38 PM CDT, Peter Tribble via > openindiana-discuss wrote: > > [snip] > > Assuming new users hit them. Most users simply take the obvious direct > route. If there's > a button that says "Install" they'll hit that and completely ignore > anything and everything > else that might be present. > > Based on that simple workflow, the current OI gui installer (which I > haven't used for ages, > but still looks like the original OpenSolaris installer) is good enough. > It's pretty much on a par with > other distro installers (and I've run dozens of them this year already). It > could be a lot quicker, > it could be more responsive, but it's not noticeably worse in terms of > useability or functionality > or reliability than many of the current crop of Linux installers - worse > than some, better than some. > That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement, but the point is that for > most of the target audience > the sky isn't falling and I think it echos what someone (Judah?) said - > stick to the straight and > narrow and life will be easier. > > -- > -Peter Tribble > http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
I did just that. I hit "install" took the defaults, did a reboot and got "non-system disk or disk error". Z840 and 4 TB disk. I got that result with both 2020.10.31 and 2021.04.30. What I did is *exactly* what most new users would do. I just checked the other stuff to see if the image was consistent with the instructions. My first step in building a new system is to do the most basic default install, see what it does and then go from there. Reg On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 02:59:38 PM CDT, Peter Tribble via openindiana-discuss wrote: [snip] Assuming new users hit them. Most users simply take the obvious direct route. If there's a button that says "Install" they'll hit that and completely ignore anything and everything else that might be present. Based on that simple workflow, the current OI gui installer (which I haven't used for ages, but still looks like the original OpenSolaris installer) is good enough. It's pretty much on a par with other distro installers (and I've run dozens of them this year already). It could be a lot quicker, it could be more responsive, but it's not noticeably worse in terms of useability or functionality or reliability than many of the current crop of Linux installers - worse than some, better than some. That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement, but the point is that for most of the target audience the sky isn't falling and I think it echos what someone (Judah?) said - stick to the straight and narrow and life will be easier. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
Thank you, that at least gives me a toe hold. There has been considerable churn in the source organization since I started using OI (151_a5) and several attempts to sort out what was where and what the overall structure was left me quite baffled. The wiki has a lot of information which is very out of date. Reg On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 03:04:56 PM CDT, Joshua M. Clulow wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2021 at 12:44, Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: > I'd be glad to fix them if I knew where the files that need to be modified >were located. Please enlighten me. You have been saying for months that you want to help, if only people would tell you where all the software is. As people keep pointing out, all of the software that goes into the distribution is built via the userland repository: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland The only way you'll be able to help is by taking the time to familiarise yourself with the make files and components and so on in that repository. It's a good place to look when you want to find where a particular component comes from. For example, I was looking for the text installer, so I started on my OI system with: $ pkg search installer The most relevant looking result is "OpenIndiana Text Installer", package "system/install/text-install". Maybe you don't know a good keyword, but you know the name of a file like "text-install" and you want to know which package contains it: $ pkg search text-install This will tell you that the file "usr/bin/text-install" comes from "system/install/text-install" as well. Once you have a package name, it's pretty easy even just with grep to find that the package comes from: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/openindiana/slim_source/Makefile#L136 Looking further up in that Makefile, you can find that we get the slim_source component from: GIT_REPO=https://github.com/OpenIndiana/slim_source.git If you then clone _that_ repository, I am sure you will be able to find what you're looking for. If not, you'll be able to find where to look next. > I tried to find the source for the text-install screen that incorrectly > states an EFI whole disk will only use 2 TB. Python loads packages from a > library, but I wasn't able to find the source for the library. A cursory search in the slim_source repository for the text "whole disk" yields many plausible results: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/slim_source/search?q=%22whole+disk%22 Inspecting the live image is interesting, but never paints the whole picture -- it is necessarily stripped (for size) of much of the interesting information about where the software originated and how it was built. You will generally need to look at the source to understand. > The dearth of accurate documentation is a huge barrier. I agree that there could always be more and better documentation! But if, as you keep saying, you want to help, you're going to have to show some initiative in sifting through the build system and the files. Things are a bit cryptic sometimes, but it's all in there; by reading the source you will be able to find it. Cheers. -- Joshua M. Clulow http://blog.sysmgr.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
On Tue, 4 May 2021 at 12:44, Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: > I'd be glad to fix them if I knew where the files that need to be modified > were located. Please enlighten me. You have been saying for months that you want to help, if only people would tell you where all the software is. As people keep pointing out, all of the software that goes into the distribution is built via the userland repository: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland The only way you'll be able to help is by taking the time to familiarise yourself with the make files and components and so on in that repository. It's a good place to look when you want to find where a particular component comes from. For example, I was looking for the text installer, so I started on my OI system with: $ pkg search installer The most relevant looking result is "OpenIndiana Text Installer", package "system/install/text-install". Maybe you don't know a good keyword, but you know the name of a file like "text-install" and you want to know which package contains it: $ pkg search text-install This will tell you that the file "usr/bin/text-install" comes from "system/install/text-install" as well. Once you have a package name, it's pretty easy even just with grep to find that the package comes from: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/openindiana/slim_source/Makefile#L136 Looking further up in that Makefile, you can find that we get the slim_source component from: GIT_REPO=https://github.com/OpenIndiana/slim_source.git If you then clone _that_ repository, I am sure you will be able to find what you're looking for. If not, you'll be able to find where to look next. > I tried to find the source for the text-install screen that incorrectly > states an EFI whole disk will only use 2 TB. Python loads packages from a > library, but I wasn't able to find the source for the library. A cursory search in the slim_source repository for the text "whole disk" yields many plausible results: https://github.com/OpenIndiana/slim_source/search?q=%22whole+disk%22 Inspecting the live image is interesting, but never paints the whole picture -- it is necessarily stripped (for size) of much of the interesting information about where the software originated and how it was built. You will generally need to look at the source to understand. > The dearth of accurate documentation is a huge barrier. I agree that there could always be more and better documentation! But if, as you keep saying, you want to help, you're going to have to show some initiative in sifting through the build system and the files. Things are a bit cryptic sometimes, but it's all in there; by reading the source you will be able to find it. Cheers. -- Joshua M. Clulow http://blog.sysmgr.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 3:53 PM Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss < openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: > I'm going to try one more time. > > > --- > The 2021.04.30 GUI Live Image has major problems. > > gparted(1m) dumps core > > the documentation mentioned on the first GUI installer screen is missing > > the release notes are missing > > the GUI installer fails to install the boot loader > > the text installer incorrectly states EFI installs are limited to 2 TB > > - > > All of these issues are also present in 2020.10.31 and possibly older > releases. This is a huge deterrent to new users. > Assuming new users hit them. Most users simply take the obvious direct route. If there's a button that says "Install" they'll hit that and completely ignore anything and everything else that might be present. Based on that simple workflow, the current OI gui installer (which I haven't used for ages, but still looks like the original OpenSolaris installer) is good enough. It's pretty much on a par with other distro installers (and I've run dozens of them this year already). It could be a lot quicker, it could be more responsive, but it's not noticeably worse in terms of useability or functionality or reliability than many of the current crop of Linux installers - worse than some, better than some. That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement, but the point is that for most of the target audience the sky isn't falling and I think it echos what someone (Judah?) said - stick to the straight and narrow and life will be easier. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
I'd be glad to fix them if I knew where the files that need to be modified were located. Please enlighten me. I tried to find the source for the text-install screen that incorrectly states an EFI whole disk will only use 2 TB. Python loads packages from a library, but I wasn't able to find the source for the library. What file controls what is on the Live Image Desktop? Where is the GUI install process operation documented? I've looked at the Live Image filesystem and could divine nothing about how the install worked. The dearth of accurate documentation is a huge barrier. Reg On Tuesday, May 4, 2021, 01:21:21 PM CDT, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Tue, 4 May 2021, Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: > > All of these issues are also present in 2020.10.31 and possibly > older releases. This is a huge deterrent to new users. None of > them is a major task to fix. Will you be submitting the fixes soon? Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
On Tue, 4 May 2021, Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: All of these issues are also present in 2020.10.31 and possibly older releases. This is a huge deterrent to new users. None of them is a major task to fix. Will you be submitting the fixes soon? Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 9:53 AM Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss < openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: > I'm going to try one more time. > > > --- > The 2021.04.30 GUI Live Image has major problems. > > gparted(1m) dumps core > If you need to use gparted, use it on distribution on which it works. For me that's my Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, or Debian installations. This is what I've meant by not having the mindset of 1 OS having to do everything. > > the documentation mentioned on the first GUI installer screen is missing > > the release notes are missing > > the GUI installer fails to install the boot loader > > the text installer incorrectly states EFI installs are limited to 2 TB > I do believe I've complained about this before, too. But I was able to work around them and documented the workaround for others. > > - > > All of these issues are also present in 2020.10.31 and possibly older > releases. This is a huge deterrent to new users. None of them is a major > task to fix. > > Simply throwing something over the fence doesn't do anyone a service. > Spending an hour once or twice a year to test a distribution image hardly > seems a major burden. This requires either having a dedicated test machine or disassembling an existing running machine to install a blank disk to test. Then possibly keeping that machine offline while any discovered bugs are addressed. For even someone like me with 10 bare metal machines on hand, that's a tall order as I don't have the budget for a bare metal testbed, and I have enough trouble keeping up with the issues of my existing hardware and distribution installations as is. > > > We simply need a review process such that broken installation images are > not posted for general distribution. I take a different view of this. I prefer devs and the community be transparent about what works and what doesn't as opposed to pretending something works when it doesn't. Which is why I've been pretty straightforward with my "rolling release" comments in previous emails as well as my gparted one above. > While I only have one or two systems I can test, I am quite happy to do > it. Even a single tester is better than none. But my testing is of no use > if the issues are not addressed before the install images are released. > I, personally, cannot be of assistance there. > > Without a reliable initial image from which to install, "pkg update" is of > no use. Without new users there will not be new maintainers/developers. > True. But as I said in a previous email, OSes are tools, and some tools fall out of use/favor with the general population for a variety of reasons. The aim is not to preserve tools as sacred artifacts, it's to preserve the ability to do something (e.g. drill a hole, run a service) regardless of which tool or distribution is used for that purpose. > > > Reg > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] We need install images which work!
I'm going to try one more time. --- The 2021.04.30 GUI Live Image has major problems. gparted(1m) dumps core the documentation mentioned on the first GUI installer screen is missing the release notes are missing the GUI installer fails to install the boot loader the text installer incorrectly states EFI installs are limited to 2 TB - All of these issues are also present in 2020.10.31 and possibly older releases. This is a huge deterrent to new users. None of them is a major task to fix. Simply throwing something over the fence doesn't do anyone a service. Spending an hour once or twice a year to test a distribution image hardly seems a major burden. We simply need a review process such that broken installation images are not posted for general distribution. While I only have one or two systems I can test, I am quite happy to do it. Even a single tester is better than none. But my testing is of no use if the issues are not addressed before the install images are released. Without a reliable initial image from which to install, "pkg update" is of no use. Without new users there will not be new maintainers/developers. Reg ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
