Re: Can JavaFX do CAD?
@John: On the JavaFx community site they have a section with references to real world usecases. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/community/index.html On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:40 AM, John C. Turnbull ozem...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Like Daniel said, none of what we say is in any way a criticism of the JavaFX development team who, in my view and that of the entire community, are doing an awesome job. For mine, all the shortcomings of JavaFX (perceived or actual) can be blown away if I could just demonstrate what JavaFX is really capable of. We have Ensemble from Oracle and also Ensemble from JFXtras (whose demo incidentally doesn't run since Java 7 Update 21). With Oracle Ensemble we can see that JavaFX has quite a nice set of basic controls and that it at least supports very simple animations. With JFXtras Ensemble we can see that very nice controls are possible but unfortunately many of these are of a rather whimsical nature and not the kind of control you would use in everyday business apps. What else is there? Of course we have rock stars like Gerrit Grunwald who frequently post awesome controls and code snippets but we really need something that brings it altogether in a kick-arse showcase. Preferably a whole suite of killer apps that highlights everything JavaFX is capable of. Yes, that would require a lot of effort but IMHO it is absolutely worth it. Without it, people like me really struggle to sell JavaFX or even get a handle on its true potential. I can promise people that more advanced things are possible but given that they write the cheques, they need to see it for themselves. And how about a website of JavaFX reference sites? There must be big companies out there using it right? In the end it doesn't matter if I personally see enormous potential for JavaFX if I cannot convince others to see what I see. -jct From: Daniel Zwolenski [mailto:zon...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013 09:12 To: John C. Turnbull Cc: Richard Bair; openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Subject: Re: Can JavaFX do CAD? +1 I've failed to convince multiple clients that they should use JFX because of a) lack of examples of what it can really do, and how to make it do that (e.g. in enterprise space we have http://static.springsource.org/docs/petclinic.html) b) lack of any big or notable players out there actually using it, or at least publicly saying they are using it c) the deployment hassles vs the ease of html app deployment and the true cross-platform-ness of html After actually getting one client to trust me on it and use it on a real, commercial app (startup), I hit problems with performance (broad interpretation of the term, not 'framerate'), crippling deployment and auto updating issues, missing basic features (e.g. maximise button, coming in 2014 I believe?), unpredictability of CSS styling, and a lack of best practices for things like how to do CAD-like diagrams (not so much render performance but zooming, panning, mouse input, layering, dragging, etc). Like John, I've been guilty of letting my frustration show in these forums. Like John, it's because I want so badly for JavaFX to be the platform I develop on, it has the potential to be awesome, but things (that seem obvious and small to me) completely stop it from being usable in a real world situation for me. It's not that we think the JFX team aren't slogging their guts out, clearly you are. It's just that in some key areas, there are small-ish blocks that stop the whole rocket from launching. To then see a whole lot of effort be poured into things like binary CSS/FXML compilation, Pi platform support (that's more important than iOS/Android, really?), web deployment patches, or even 3D (as cool as that is), just knocks me about. Obviously your priorities are coming from somewhere different to ours, but the way you prioritise is unfathomable to me and that definitely adds to the frustration. At this stage, I am not suggesting my clients use JFX (I actively discourage them from it, in their interest). Mobile is the area that has the potential to bring JFX back into usable for me as it can compete easier with the current technologies (which are all crap). Maybe if that ends up working (a long, long road to go on that and very much an 'if') then it will seep back into the desktop for me, but at a minimum the desktop deployment options will need to be improved before that's even a possibility. I've come to accept that I am not in the primary target audience for JavaFX, maybe a secondary target. I don't understand who the primary target is though, and knowing/accepting doesn't make it any less frustrating. I keep involved in the hope that I might get a usable platform somewhere along the way but it's more of a hope than a belief. So nothing really new above, but just adding my voice to John's. JavaFX is definitely not
Re: Can JavaFX do CAD?
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 09:12:35 +0200, Yennick Trevels yennick.trev...@gmail.com wrote: @John: On the JavaFx community site they have a section with references to real world usecases. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/community/index.html If that five/six cases are all that is published now, as it's my understanding, it's not the kind of gallery of use cases I've in mind and by far it's not enough. Too few and mostly too simple - I mean, they are really cool applications and they deliver, but you don't see the push the edge stuff you'd like to see. Again, please compare with the NetBeans or Eclipse Platform showcases. Of course, I know that those Platforms are much older and established than JavaFX, so I don't expect the same numbers... but at least one order of magnitude more. Paradoxically, so few showcases of a technology that is around since 2007 might even deliver the opposite message that we want. -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. We make Java work. Everywhere. http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
Re: Can JavaFX do CAD?
So in this sense Scene Builder should be on this list, even though it is Oracle provided. It shows the promise of the complexity that I think you are asking for. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it wrote: On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 09:12:35 +0200, Yennick Trevels yennick.trev...@gmail.com wrote: @John: On the JavaFx community site they have a section with references to real world usecases. http://www.oracle.com/**technetwork/java/javafx/**community/index.htmlhttp://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/community/index.html If that five/six cases are all that is published now, as it's my understanding, it's not the kind of gallery of use cases I've in mind and by far it's not enough. Too few and mostly too simple - I mean, they are really cool applications and they deliver, but you don't see the push the edge stuff you'd like to see. Again, please compare with the NetBeans or Eclipse Platform showcases. Of course, I know that those Platforms are much older and established than JavaFX, so I don't expect the same numbers... but at least one order of magnitude more. Paradoxically, so few showcases of a technology that is around since 2007 might even deliver the opposite message that we want. -- Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect @ Tidalwave s.a.s. We make Java work. Everywhere. http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/**blog http://tidalwave.it/fabrizio/blog - fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
Re: New Layout Panes in JavaFX 8
There are external panes e.g. MiglayoutPane, I have ports of the SWT-Layouts (Fill,Grid,Row). Tom On 27.07.13 16:06, Peter Penzov wrote: I would like to ask you are you planning to add new Layout Panes in JavaFX 8?
Re: NSInvalidSendPortException
Hi Sven, Yes, please do. Can you provide more specific details? What is the program you were running? It will be great if you have a simple test case to go with the bug report. Thanks, - Chien On 7/27/2013 9:31 AM, Sven Reimers wrote: Hi, I get 2013-07-27 18:28:51.911 java[65246:707] [IMKInputSession deactivate] exception caught. IMKInputSession:IMKInputSession: 0x7fced3b6dfd0 -- NSInvalidSendPortException : [NSMachPort sendBeforeDate:] destination port invalid in my console, on trying drag and drop... This is on OS X , b99 Shall I open a bug report? -Sven
Re: Can JavaFX do CAD?
I have an Swing/JavaFX app, the site is: http://modellus.co How can I get it to be on that real world usecases section? Or does it not have the necessary requirements to be in it? Thanks, best regards, @John: On the JavaFx community site they have a section with references to real world usecases. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/community/index.html On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:40 AM, John C. Turnbull ozem...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Like Daniel said, none of what we say is in any way a criticism of the JavaFX development team who, in my view and that of the entire community, are doing an awesome job. For mine, all the shortcomings of JavaFX (perceived or actual) can be blown away if I could just demonstrate what JavaFX is really capable of. We have Ensemble from Oracle and also Ensemble from JFXtras (whose demo incidentally doesn't run since Java 7 Update 21). With Oracle Ensemble we can see that JavaFX has quite a nice set of basic controls and that it at least supports very simple animations. With JFXtras Ensemble we can see that very nice controls are possible but unfortunately many of these are of a rather whimsical nature and not the kind of control you would use in everyday business apps. What else is there? Of course we have rock stars like Gerrit Grunwald who frequently post awesome controls and code snippets but we really need something that brings it altogether in a kick-arse showcase. Preferably a whole suite of killer apps that highlights everything JavaFX is capable of. Yes, that would require a lot of effort but IMHO it is absolutely worth it. Without it, people like me really struggle to sell JavaFX or even get a handle on its true potential. I can promise people that more advanced things are possible but given that they write the cheques, they need to see it for themselves. And how about a website of JavaFX reference sites? There must be big companies out there using it right? In the end it doesn't matter if I personally see enormous potential for JavaFX if I cannot convince others to see what I see. -jct From: Daniel Zwolenski [mailto:zon...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013 09:12 To: John C. Turnbull Cc: Richard Bair; openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Subject: Re: Can JavaFX do CAD? +1 I've failed to convince multiple clients that they should use JFX because of a) lack of examples of what it can really do, and how to make it do that (e.g. in enterprise space we have http://static.springsource.org/docs/petclinic.html) b) lack of any big or notable players out there actually using it, or at least publicly saying they are using it c) the deployment hassles vs the ease of html app deployment and the true cross-platform-ness of html After actually getting one client to trust me on it and use it on a real, commercial app (startup), I hit problems with performance (broad interpretation of the term, not 'framerate'), crippling deployment and auto updating issues, missing basic features (e.g. maximise button, coming in 2014 I believe?), unpredictability of CSS styling, and a lack of best practices for things like how to do CAD-like diagrams (not so much render performance but zooming, panning, mouse input, layering, dragging, etc). Like John, I've been guilty of letting my frustration show in these forums. Like John, it's because I want so badly for JavaFX to be the platform I develop on, it has the potential to be awesome, but things (that seem obvious and small to me) completely stop it from being usable in a real world situation for me. It's not that we think the JFX team aren't slogging their guts out, clearly you are. It's just that in some key areas, there are small-ish blocks that stop the whole rocket from launching. To then see a whole lot of effort be poured into things like binary CSS/FXML compilation, Pi platform support (that's more important than iOS/Android, really?), web deployment patches, or even 3D (as cool as that is), just knocks me about. Obviously your priorities are coming from somewhere different to ours, but the way you prioritise is unfathomable to me and that definitely adds to the frustration. At this stage, I am not suggesting my clients use JFX (I actively discourage them from it, in their interest). Mobile is the area that has the potential to bring JFX back into usable for me as it can compete easier with the current technologies (which are all crap). Maybe if that ends up working (a long, long road to go on that and very much an 'if') then it will seep back into the desktop for me, but at a minimum the desktop deployment options will need to be improved before that's even a possibility. I've come to accept that I am not in the primary target audience for JavaFX, maybe a secondary
Re: Can JavaFX do CAD?
How can I get it to be on that real world usecases section? Or does it not have the necessary requirements to be in it? I meant this has a real question. Not being sarcastic... Regards, @John: On the JavaFx community site they have a section with references to real world usecases. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javafx/community/index.html On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:40 AM, John C. Turnbull ozem...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Like Daniel said, none of what we say is in any way a criticism of the JavaFX development team who, in my view and that of the entire community, are doing an awesome job. For mine, all the shortcomings of JavaFX (perceived or actual) can be blown away if I could just demonstrate what JavaFX is really capable of. We have Ensemble from Oracle and also Ensemble from JFXtras (whose demo incidentally doesn't run since Java 7 Update 21). With Oracle Ensemble we can see that JavaFX has quite a nice set of basic controls and that it at least supports very simple animations. With JFXtras Ensemble we can see that very nice controls are possible but unfortunately many of these are of a rather whimsical nature and not the kind of control you would use in everyday business apps. What else is there? Of course we have rock stars like Gerrit Grunwald who frequently post awesome controls and code snippets but we really need something that brings it altogether in a kick-arse showcase. Preferably a whole suite of killer apps that highlights everything JavaFX is capable of. Yes, that would require a lot of effort but IMHO it is absolutely worth it. Without it, people like me really struggle to sell JavaFX or even get a handle on its true potential. I can promise people that more advanced things are possible but given that they write the cheques, they need to see it for themselves. And how about a website of JavaFX reference sites? There must be big companies out there using it right? In the end it doesn't matter if I personally see enormous potential for JavaFX if I cannot convince others to see what I see. -jct From: Daniel Zwolenski [mailto:zon...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013 09:12 To: John C. Turnbull Cc: Richard Bair; openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Subject: Re: Can JavaFX do CAD? +1 I've failed to convince multiple clients that they should use JFX because of a) lack of examples of what it can really do, and how to make it do that (e.g. in enterprise space we have http://static.springsource.org/docs/petclinic.html) b) lack of any big or notable players out there actually using it, or at least publicly saying they are using it c) the deployment hassles vs the ease of html app deployment and the true cross-platform-ness of html After actually getting one client to trust me on it and use it on a real, commercial app (startup), I hit problems with performance (broad interpretation of the term, not 'framerate'), crippling deployment and auto updating issues, missing basic features (e.g. maximise button, coming in 2014 I believe?), unpredictability of CSS styling, and a lack of best practices for things like how to do CAD-like diagrams (not so much render performance but zooming, panning, mouse input, layering, dragging, etc). Like John, I've been guilty of letting my frustration show in these forums. Like John, it's because I want so badly for JavaFX to be the platform I develop on, it has the potential to be awesome, but things (that seem obvious and small to me) completely stop it from being usable in a real world situation for me. It's not that we think the JFX team aren't slogging their guts out, clearly you are. It's just that in some key areas, there are small-ish blocks that stop the whole rocket from launching. To then see a whole lot of effort be poured into things like binary CSS/FXML compilation, Pi platform support (that's more important than iOS/Android, really?), web deployment patches, or even 3D (as cool as that is), just knocks me about. Obviously your priorities are coming from somewhere different to ours, but the way you prioritise is unfathomable to me and that definitely adds to the frustration. At this stage, I am not suggesting my clients use JFX (I actively discourage them from it, in their interest). Mobile is the area that has the potential to bring JFX back into usable for me as it can compete easier with the current technologies (which are all crap). Maybe if that ends up working (a long, long road to go on that and very much an 'if') then it will seep back into the desktop for me, but at a minimum the desktop deployment options will need to be improved before that's even a possibility. I've come to accept that I am not in the primary target audience for JavaFX, maybe a secondary target. I
