Re: Future of JavaFX

[Felix Bembrick]

If JavaFX stays under Oracle control, it will be the same it is today in 5 
years. I really doubt they will put another dollar into its expansion and new 
features. 

How can that be good?

Plus the company that does take over could provide commercial support as well 
as training (which Oracle doesn't).

> On 1 Dec 2015, at 17:35, Casall, Alexander  wrote:
> 
> I don't agree. To move it away from Oracle would be the official death of fx.
> And you could hire oracle engineering services, so there is commercial 
> support, if you have the money to pay for.
> 
> I think one option would be, that oracle engages commiters to contribute. In 
> addition the fx team should have the capacity to manage the open source 
> process, like doing a lot of reviews to assure the quality.
> 
> RoboVM is sold to xamarin, so they are not in he game anymore.
> 
> I think the solution could be:
> - more developers (even in India :-) )
> - make OpenJFX to a real open source project
> 
> - Alex 
> 
> From: Felix Bembrick
> Sent: 01.12.15, 03:00
> To: Casall, Alexander
> Cc: Donald Smith, openjfx mailing list
> Subject: Re: Future of JavaFX
> 
> The problem is that JavaFX is not used in any Oracle products (whereas Swing 
> is), it makes them no money and it fact they are constantly bleeding while 
> maintaining a team to develop a product that brings in no money and doesn't 
> fit into their whole "cloud is everything" strategy.
> 
> I would say that from Oracles point of view, JavaFX will not be developed any 
> further.
> 
> However, Gluon and RoboVM are doing their best to keep it alive but they are 
> a very small under resourced team.
> 
> In my opinion, JavaFX should be jettisoned from the JDK and managed by a 
> company like Gluon on all platforms and be monetised just like the very 
> successful Qt Company which just sells and supports Qt. 
> 
> With JavaFX, Oracle are an impediment to its success. We need a "JavaFX 
> Company" that will develop it, sell it and support it. It should be separate 
> from the JDK so it can have its own independent and more frequent release 
> cycle.
> 
> That's how to save JavaFX.
> 
> But I am probably dreaming...
> 
> > alexander.cas...@saxsys.de> wrote:
> > 
> > Don, thanks for your important contribution to this thread.
> > 
> > What exactly means oracle continues to develop on fx? What is the roadmap?
> > 
> > If I check the mercurial archives there are 10-12 people working constantly 
> > on FX in this year. The most work was done by a few of them. I'm not sure 
> > whether this is enought to move FX forward to engage more and more adopters.
> > 
> > The core question is, are there any plans to put more ressources on fx?
> > 
> > - Alex
> > 
> > 
> > From: Donald Smith
> > Sent: 30.11.15, 17:35
> > To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Mailing
> > Subject: Re: Future of JavaFX
> > Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and it will still be around for a while.
> > 
> > As of 7u6 we bundled JavaFX with the Oracle JDK, we've open sourced 100%
> > of the code, we continue developing for it, etc.  I understand that
> > while there is both Swing and JavaFX available that people will continue
> > to question the existence of each -- so be it.  Each has it's own niches
> > and benefits and our strategy, as it has been for years now, is to
> > continue with each.
> > 
> >  - Don
> > 
> > 
> >> On 30/11/2015 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google wrote:
> >> Hi there,
> >> 
> >> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when 
> >> Shay Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
> >> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>).
> >> 
> >> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff 
> >> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have 
> >> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
> >> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if 
> >> JavaFX will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the 
> >> customer demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, 
> >> and if not convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will 
> >> loose a contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog 
> >> written by Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
> >> 
> >> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
> >> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX 
> >> and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
> >> 
> >> Dirk
> > 

RE: Future of JavaFX

[Casall, Alexander]

I don't agree. To move it away from Oracle would be the official death of fx.
And you could hire oracle engineering services, so there is commercial support, 
if you have the money to pay for.

I think one option would be, that oracle engages commiters to contribute. In 
addition the fx team should have the capacity to manage the open source 
process, like doing a lot of reviews to assure the quality.

RoboVM is sold to xamarin, so they are not in he game anymore.

I think the solution could be:
- more developers (even in India :-) )
- make OpenJFX to a real open source project

- Alex

From: Felix Bembrick
Sent: 01.12.15, 03:00
To: Casall, Alexander
Cc: Donald Smith, openjfx mailing list
Subject: Re: Future of JavaFX
The problem is that JavaFX is not used in any Oracle products (whereas Swing 
is), it makes them no money and it fact they are constantly bleeding while 
maintaining a team to develop a product that brings in no money and doesn't fit 
into their whole "cloud is everything" strategy.

I would say that from Oracles point of view, JavaFX will not be developed any 
further.

However, Gluon and RoboVM are doing their best to keep it alive but they are a 
very small under resourced team.

In my opinion, JavaFX should be jettisoned from the JDK and managed by a 
company like Gluon on all platforms and be monetised just like the very 
successful Qt Company which just sells and supports Qt.

With JavaFX, Oracle are an impediment to its success. We need a "JavaFX 
Company" that will develop it, sell it and support it. It should be separate 
from the JDK so it can have its own independent and more frequent release cycle.

That's how to save JavaFX.

But I am probably dreaming...

> alexander.cas...@saxsys.de> wrote:
>
> Don, thanks for your important contribution to this thread.
>
> What exactly means oracle continues to develop on fx? What is the roadmap?
>
> If I check the mercurial archives there are 10-12 people working constantly 
> on FX in this year. The most work was done by a few of them. I'm not sure 
> whether this is enought to move FX forward to engage more and more adopters.
>
> The core question is, are there any plans to put more ressources on fx?
>
> - Alex
>
>
> From: Donald Smith
> Sent: 30.11.15, 17:35
> To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Mailing
> Subject: Re: Future of JavaFX
> Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and it will still be around for a while.
>
> As of 7u6 we bundled JavaFX with the Oracle JDK, we've open sourced 100%
> of the code, we continue developing for it, etc.  I understand that
> while there is both Swing and JavaFX available that people will continue
> to question the existence of each -- so be it.  Each has it's own niches
> and benefits and our strategy, as it has been for years now, is to
> continue with each.
>
>  - Don
>
>
>> On 30/11/2015 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
>> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
>> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>).
>>
>> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff 
>> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have 
>> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
>> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX 
>> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer 
>> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not 
>> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a 
>> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by 
>> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
>>
>> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
>> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and 
>> that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>>
>> Dirk
>

[9] Review request for 8143894 : clipboard paste on outlook email body doesn't work for the first time

[Guru Hb]

Hi Arunprasad, Alexander & Kevin, 

JBS : https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8143894/ 
Webrev : http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~ghb/8143894/webrev.00 

Tested on Windows and Linux (both 64 bit).

Thnaks, 
Guru

RE: [9] Review request for 8140501 : WebView crashes when loading content in a locationlistener

[Guru Hb]

Hi Arun, Alexander & Kevin, 

JBS : https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8140501/ 
Webrev : http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~ghb/8140501/webrev.01/ 

Regression test incorporated and Async loadcontent executed only in READY 
state. 

Thanks, 
Guru 

-Original Message-
From: Guru Hb 
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:22 PM
To: Alexander Zvegintsev; Arunprasad Rajkumar; Kevin C Rushforth
Cc: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net
Subject: [9] Review request for 8140501 : WebView crashes when loading content 
in a locationlistener

Hi Arunprasad, Alexander & Kevin, 

JBS : https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8140501
Webrev : http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~ghb/8140501/webrev.00/

Tested on Windows and Linux (both 64 bit). 

Thnaks, 
Guru

Re: Bulk packager integration

[Michael Hall]

> On Nov 30, 2015, at 9:19 AM, Danno Ferrin  wrote:
> 
>  do we need to add some -XaddExports?  

Yes?

java -cp . JRTLister -p  com.sun.tools.jdeps.Main
/modules/jdk.jdeps/com/sun/tools/jdeps/Main.class

javac TestJdeps.java
TestJdeps.java:1: error: package com.sun.tools.jdeps does not exist
import com.sun.tools.jdeps.Main;

Macintosh:jigsaw mjh$ javac 
-XaddExports:jdk.jdeps/com.sun.tools.jdeps=ALL-UNNAMED TestJdeps.java
Macintosh:jigsaw mjh$ 

import com.sun.tools.jdeps.Main;

public class TestJdeps {
  
  public static void main(String[] args) {
try {
  Main.main(new String[] { "-version" });
}
catch (Exception ex) { ex.printStackTrace(); }
  }
}

[fwiw http://www195.pair.com/mik3hall/JRTLister.java] 


Michael Hall

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Felix Bembrick]

The problem is that JavaFX is not used in any Oracle products (whereas Swing 
is), it makes them no money and it fact they are constantly bleeding while 
maintaining a team to develop a product that brings in no money and doesn't fit 
into their whole "cloud is everything" strategy.

I would say that from Oracles point of view, JavaFX will not be developed any 
further.

However, Gluon and RoboVM are doing their best to keep it alive but they are a 
very small under resourced team.

In my opinion, JavaFX should be jettisoned from the JDK and managed by a 
company like Gluon on all platforms and be monetised just like the very 
successful Qt Company which just sells and supports Qt. 

With JavaFX, Oracle are an impediment to its success. We need a "JavaFX 
Company" that will develop it, sell it and support it. It should be separate 
from the JDK so it can have its own independent and more frequent release cycle.

That's how to save JavaFX.

But I am probably dreaming...

> On 1 Dec 2015, at 09:54, Casall, Alexander  wrote:
> 
> Don, thanks for your important contribution to this thread.
> 
> What exactly means oracle continues to develop on fx? What is the roadmap?
> 
> If I check the mercurial archives there are 10-12 people working constantly 
> on FX in this year. The most work was done by a few of them. I'm not sure 
> whether this is enought to move FX forward to engage more and more adopters.
> 
> The core question is, are there any plans to put more ressources on fx?
> 
> - Alex
> 
> 
> From: Donald Smith
> Sent: 30.11.15, 17:35
> To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Mailing
> Subject: Re: Future of JavaFX
> Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and it will still be around for a while.
> 
> As of 7u6 we bundled JavaFX with the Oracle JDK, we've open sourced 100%
> of the code, we continue developing for it, etc.  I understand that
> while there is both Swing and JavaFX available that people will continue
> to question the existence of each -- so be it.  Each has it's own niches
> and benefits and our strategy, as it has been for years now, is to
> continue with each.
> 
>  - Don
> 
> 
>> On 30/11/2015 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
>> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
>> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>).
>> 
>> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff 
>> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have 
>> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
>> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX 
>> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer 
>> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not 
>> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a 
>> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by 
>> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
>> 
>> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
>> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and 
>> that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>> 
>> Dirk
> 

Re: Bulk packager integration

[Kevin Rushforth]

Inline

Danno Ferrin wrote:


On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:49 PM, Kevin Rushforth 
mailto:kevin.rushfo...@oracle.com>> wrote:


1) I get the following error if I apply the patch and do a build:

:fxpackager:compileJava/localhome/kcr/javafx/9-jake-kcr/jfx/rt/modules/fxpackager/src/main/java/com/oracle/tools/packager/JLinkBundlerHelper.java:3: 
error: package com.sun.tools.jdeps does not exist

import com.sun.tools.jdeps.Main;
  ^

Does this require a newer version of JDK9 jigsaw or is there some 
other issue? If the former, then we need to solve a problem that 
isn't yet solved with the build environment on our Hudson machines 
before this can go in.





Do you have the module-info.java.extra file loaded up?  It may be a 
build issue since that file is not exported by default.  Is this the 
same error we see when it doen't like the module boundaries?  do we 
need to add some -XaddExports?  It works for me, and the file is years 
old, so it may be order or operations issues with the JDK that is on 
the build server.


I'll look into building from a public EA build of Java 9 then (if I 
have time, Chris or Dmitry may get to do that).


The JDK on the build server was built about 3 weeks ago and hasn't been 
refreshed. We don't currently have a good way to take a JDK9 jigsaw 
build that contains packager modules and use that to build fxpackager. 
We will need a solution to this, so we don't have to keep generating two 
builds -- one with and one without the packager bits, the latter being 
what we currently need as the JDK9_HOME we use to build FX.



2) The JDK9_MODULES is a new variable that isn't currently defined. 
What should it be set to? It looks like it is only used by the 
packagerDev task, so might be OK.




Right now it is for packagerdev, but going forward I see it being 
needed for the unit tests.


OK.

3) The classesModuleExclude mechanism duplicates an existing 
mechanism to filter out classes from going into the modules. Are you 
sure this new mechanism is needed? After I fixed 
https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8142381 a couple weeks ago I 
no longer see any classes from ant-javafx.jar showing up in the 
fxpackager module.




I'll look into removing that code then.


Thanks.

-- Kevin





-- Kevin


Danno Ferrin wrote:

Here's the webrev: http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~shemnon/8080531/webrev.07/ 

(it's been a stressful morning)

  

On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:38 AM, Danno Ferrin  wrote:

Kevin, Chris, Dmitry

This is a bulk packager integration from the packager sandbox to the JavaFX 
Sandbox, please review.

webrev: 


There are three changes outside of the fxpackager module that I think Kevin 
needs to give his approval for.

Two changes are in the build.gradle.  The first adds a concept of 
classesModuleExclude which is a regexp for files to exclude from the modular 
jar. This is to support creating the ant jar outside of the module system so 
that ant can read the required types and classes.

The second change is to introduce JDK9_MODULES, read off of an environmental 
variable.  This should point to your jmods directory (not explored modules, 
this must be jmods).  This is to support the packagerdev target which now needs 
a pointer to the jmods which as of yet does not have a standard location 
relative to the JDK/JRE.

The third change is the addition of another module-info.java.extra file.  This 
one exposes the invocation API for JDeps to packager so the detectmodules can 
use it to sniff out modules from the classpath.

The remainder of the changes are internal to the fxpackager modules and 
represent contributions from Chris Bensen, Dmitry Cherepanov, and myself 
finishing out the last details for JEP275.  This patch should make it feature 
complete (but not bug complete, we got another milestone for that).

--Danno



  

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Casall, Alexander]

Don, thanks for your important contribution to this thread.

What exactly means oracle continues to develop on fx? What is the roadmap?

If I check the mercurial archives there are 10-12 people working constantly on 
FX in this year. The most work was done by a few of them. I'm not sure whether 
this is enought to move FX forward to engage more and more adopters.

The core question is, are there any plans to put more ressources on fx?

- Alex


From: Donald Smith
Sent: 30.11.15, 17:35
To: openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net Mailing
Subject: Re: Future of JavaFX
Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and it will still be around for a while.

As of 7u6 we bundled JavaFX with the Oracle JDK, we've open sourced 100%
of the code, we continue developing for it, etc.  I understand that
while there is both Swing and JavaFX available that people will continue
to question the existence of each -- so be it.  Each has it's own niches
and benefits and our strategy, as it has been for years now, is to
continue with each.

  - Don


On 30/11/2015 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>).
>
> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff like 
> this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have now 
> reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX 
> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer demands 
> an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not convincing 
> they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a contract worth 
> around one million dollars because of one blog written by Shay with no 
> follow-up from Oracle.
>
> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and 
> that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>
> Dirk
>
>

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Tom Eugelink]

There indeed seems to be negative buzz around JavaFX, and Oracle stopping with promoting 
it, is indeed confusing, at the very least. And it is noticeable everywhere; without 
wanting to wine, I really do have a nice JavaFX / JFXtras presentation, but it being 
declined on all conferences for me is a signal about the interest of the community in 
JavaFX. And let's be honest, Oracle's whole "let's do cloud and forget there are 
companies doing this many many years already" U turn is not contributing to the mood 
as well.

OTOH, from what I hear VW has chosen to use JavaFX for it's in car systems. And 
I have just been on an interview for a traffic management system where they 
chose JavaFX over web based. So there also is adoption. But it will be slow. My 
gut says: give it time, and a bit of TLC promotionwise would not be bad.

Tom

On 30-11-2015 21:35, Florian Brunner wrote:

I read this article as well some days ago. It has some very valid points, but
all in all I think JavaFX is still the best option out there.

That said I was quite surprised that I got confronted today with the very same
article by colleagues of mine who are in charge with company-wide adoption of
various technologies. They tend to agree with the article. Currently JavaFX is
still just on our technology radar, but not promoted yet. And now they start
thinking JavFX (and probably thus Java on desktop not even speaking about
mobile platforms) won't make it and it's getting hard to convince them that
JavaFX is actually a great option.

Now reading this mail of yours, this article really seems to make waves.

-Florian

  
Am Montag, 30. November 2015, 17.13:10 schrieb Dirk @ Google:

Hi there,

there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay
Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine
(dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding
JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the
question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“
(https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html
).

I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff
like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have
now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the
sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX
will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer
demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not
convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a
contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by
Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.

What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees /
JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX
and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?

Dirk

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Daniel.]

The company where I work is using and developing with JavaFX. We're
not in production yet but have already some testing embedded systems
with it running on a [possible]customer site. The main drawback is not
having the same performance running from X than running directly from
framebuffer. By not using X we have a other big drawback too that is
not having x11vnc working, so every developer need to have a monitor
with HDMI attached to our device. I have  a task to "look for possible
solutions" but I haven't found time to attend it yet.

Regards,
- dhs

2015-11-30 18:35 GMT-02:00 Florian Brunner :
> I read this article as well some days ago. It has some very valid points, but
> all in all I think JavaFX is still the best option out there.
>
> That said I was quite surprised that I got confronted today with the very same
> article by colleagues of mine who are in charge with company-wide adoption of
> various technologies. They tend to agree with the article. Currently JavaFX is
> still just on our technology radar, but not promoted yet. And now they start
> thinking JavFX (and probably thus Java on desktop not even speaking about
> mobile platforms) won't make it and it's getting hard to convince them that
> JavaFX is actually a great option.
>
> Now reading this mail of yours, this article really seems to make waves.
>
> -Florian
>
>
> Am Montag, 30. November 2015, 17.13:10 schrieb Dirk @ Google:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay
>> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine
>> (dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding
>> JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the
>> question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“
>> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html
>> ).
>>
>> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff
>> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have
>> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the
>> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX
>> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer
>> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not
>> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a
>> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by
>> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
>>
>> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees /
>> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX
>> and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>>
>> Dirk
>



-- 
"Do or do not. There is no try"
  Yoda Master

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Florian Brunner]

I read this article as well some days ago. It has some very valid points, but 
all in all I think JavaFX is still the best option out there.

That said I was quite surprised that I got confronted today with the very same 
article by colleagues of mine who are in charge with company-wide adoption of 
various technologies. They tend to agree with the article. Currently JavaFX is 
still just on our technology radar, but not promoted yet. And now they start 
thinking JavFX (and probably thus Java on desktop not even speaking about 
mobile platforms) won't make it and it's getting hard to convince them that 
JavaFX is actually a great option.

Now reading this mail of yours, this article really seems to make waves.

-Florian

 
Am Montag, 30. November 2015, 17.13:10 schrieb Dirk @ Google:
> Hi there,
> 
> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay
> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine
> (dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding
> JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the
> question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“
> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html
> ).
> 
> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff
> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have
> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the
> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX
> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer
> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not
> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a
> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by
> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
> 
> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees /
> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX
> and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
> 
> Dirk

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Ryan Cuprak]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 30, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Dirk @ Google  wrote:
> 
> Companies like the one in question need to know if something will be 
> supported. „Not discontinued“ is not good enough for them.
> 
> Dirk
> 
>> Am 30.11.2015 um 18:20 schrieb Tomas Mikula :
>> 
>> The same blog post of Shay says that "Oracle never discontinues products." 
>> At least not officially. So there you have that.
>> 
>> Given that the biggest achievement of JavaFX 9 will be if old things keep 
>> working in JDK 9, I wouldn't expect any new exciting JavaFX developments 
>> coming from Oracle.
>> 
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google > > wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
>> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
>> (dlemmermann.wordpress.com ) with a lot 
>> of negative comments regarding JavaFX and its future. He then followed up 
>> with a long blog asking the question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ 
>> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html 
>>  
>> > >).
>> 
>> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff 
>> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have 
>> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
>> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX 
>> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer 
>> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not 
>> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a 
>> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by 
>> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
>> 
>> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
>> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and 
>> that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>> 
>> Dirk
> 

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Dirk @ Google]

Companies like the one in question need to know if something will be supported. 
„Not discontinued“ is not good enough for them.

Dirk

> Am 30.11.2015 um 18:20 schrieb Tomas Mikula :
> 
> The same blog post of Shay says that "Oracle never discontinues products." At 
> least not officially. So there you have that.
> 
> Given that the biggest achievement of JavaFX 9 will be if old things keep 
> working in JDK 9, I wouldn't expect any new exciting JavaFX developments 
> coming from Oracle.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google  > wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
> (dlemmermann.wordpress.com ) with a lot of 
> negative comments regarding JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a 
> long blog asking the question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ 
> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html 
>  
>  >).
> 
> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff like 
> this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have now 
> reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX 
> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer demands 
> an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not convincing 
> they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a contract worth 
> around one million dollars because of one blog written by Shay with no 
> follow-up from Oracle.
> 
> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and 
> that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
> 
> Dirk
> 
> 
> 

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Tomas Mikula]

The same blog post of Shay says that "Oracle never discontinues products."
At least not officially. So there you have that.

Given that the biggest achievement of JavaFX 9 will be if old things keep
working in JDK 9, I wouldn't expect any new exciting JavaFX developments
coming from Oracle.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google 
wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when
> Shay Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine (
> dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding
> JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the
> question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ (
> https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html <
> https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>).
>
> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff
> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have
> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the
> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX
> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer
> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not
> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a
> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by
> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle.
>
> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees /
> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX
> and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>
> Dirk
>
>
>

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Donald Smith]

Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and it will still be around for a while.

As of 7u6 we bundled JavaFX with the Oracle JDK, we've open sourced 100% 
of the code, we continue developing for it, etc.  I understand that 
while there is both Swing and JavaFX available that people will continue 
to question the existence of each -- so be it.  Each has it's own niches 
and benefits and our strategy, as it has been for years now, is to 
continue with each.


 - Don


On 30/11/2015 11:13 AM, Dirk @ Google wrote:

Hi there,

there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay Almog 
(Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine (dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a 
lot of negative comments regarding JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a 
long blog asking the question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ 
(https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html 
).

I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff like 
this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have now 
reached the point where potential customers are questioning the sustainability 
of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX will still be 
around in a few years. In my specific case the customer demands an answer from 
me and my partners within the next week, and if not convincing they will go 
with something / someone else. We will loose a contract worth around one 
million dollars because of one blog written by Shay with no follow-up from 
Oracle.

What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / JavaFX 
development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and that it 
will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?

Dirk

Re: Future of JavaFX

[Mario Torre]

My humble opinion is that what should happen to stop this FUD once and
for all is that JavaFX becomes finally part of OpenJDK (as in same
codebase and same build infrastructure) and a formal part of the Java
API.

I'm sure this will happen eventually and everything seems to go toward
this goal, but it should move a bit faster.

Cheers,
Mario

2015-11-30 17:13 GMT+01:00 Dirk @ Google :
> Hi there,
>
> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
> Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
> (dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding JavaFX 
> and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the question 
> „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ 
> (https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html 
> ).
>
> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff like 
> this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have now 
> reached the point where potential customers are questioning the 
> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX 
> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer demands 
> an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not convincing 
> they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a contract worth 
> around one million dollars because of one blog written by Shay with no 
> follow-up from Oracle.
>
> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / 
> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and 
> that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?
>
> Dirk
>
>



-- 
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Java Champion - Blog: http://neugens.wordpress.com - Twitter: @neugens
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OpenJDK: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/caciocavallo/

Please, support open standards:
http://endsoftpatents.org/

Future of JavaFX

[Dirk @ Google]

Hi there,

there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when Shay 
Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine 
(dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding JavaFX 
and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the question 
„Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ 
(https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html 
). 

I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff like 
this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have now 
reached the point where potential customers are questioning the sustainability 
of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX will still be 
around in a few years. In my specific case the customer demands an answer from 
me and my partners within the next week, and if not convincing they will go 
with something / someone else. We will loose a contract worth around one 
million dollars because of one blog written by Shay with no follow-up from 
Oracle.

What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / JavaFX 
development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX and that it 
will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that?

Dirk

Re: Bulk packager integration

[Danno Ferrin]

> On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:49 PM, Kevin Rushforth  
> wrote:
> 
> 1) I get the following error if I apply the patch and do a build:
> 
> :fxpackager:compileJava/localhome/kcr/javafx/9-jake-kcr/jfx/rt/modules/fxpackager/src/main/java/com/oracle/tools/packager/JLinkBundlerHelper.java:3:
>  error: package com.sun.tools.jdeps does not exist
> import com.sun.tools.jdeps.Main;
>   ^
> 
> Does this require a newer version of JDK9 jigsaw or is there some other 
> issue? If the former, then we need to solve a problem that isn't yet solved 
> with the build environment on our Hudson machines before this can go in.
> 
> 

Do you have the module-info.java.extra file loaded up?  It may be a build issue 
since that file is not exported by default.  Is this the same error we see when 
it doen't like the module boundaries?  do we need to add some -XaddExports?  It 
works for me, and the file is years old, so it may be order or operations 
issues with the JDK that is on the build server.

I'll look into building from a public EA build of Java 9 then (if I have time, 
Chris or Dmitry may get to do that). 

> 2) The JDK9_MODULES is a new variable that isn't currently defined. What 
> should it be set to? It looks like it is only used by the packagerDev task, 
> so might be OK.
> 

Right now it is for packagerdev, but going forward I see it being needed for 
the unit tests.

> 
> 3) The classesModuleExclude mechanism duplicates an existing mechanism to 
> filter out classes from going into the modules. Are you sure this new 
> mechanism is needed? After I fixed 
> https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8142381 
>  a couple weeks ago I no 
> longer see any classes from ant-javafx.jar showing up in the fxpackager 
> module.
> 

I'll look into removing that code then.


> -- Kevin
> 
> 
> Danno Ferrin wrote:
>> 
>> Here's the webrev: http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~shemnon/8080531/webrev.07/ 
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> (it's been a stressful morning)
>> 
>>   
>>> On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:38 AM, Danno Ferrin  
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin, Chris, Dmitry
>>> 
>>> This is a bulk packager integration from the packager sandbox to the JavaFX 
>>> Sandbox, please review.
>>> 
>>> webrev: 
>>> 
>>> There are three changes outside of the fxpackager module that I think Kevin 
>>> needs to give his approval for.
>>> 
>>> Two changes are in the build.gradle.  The first adds a concept of 
>>> classesModuleExclude which is a regexp for files to exclude from the 
>>> modular jar. This is to support creating the ant jar outside of the module 
>>> system so that ant can read the required types and classes.
>>> 
>>> The second change is to introduce JDK9_MODULES, read off of an 
>>> environmental variable.  This should point to your jmods directory (not 
>>> explored modules, this must be jmods).  This is to support the packagerdev 
>>> target which now needs a pointer to the jmods which as of yet does not have 
>>> a standard location relative to the JDK/JRE.
>>> 
>>> The third change is the addition of another module-info.java.extra file.  
>>> This one exposes the invocation API for JDeps to packager so the 
>>> detectmodules can use it to sniff out modules from the classpath.
>>> 
>>> The remainder of the changes are internal to the fxpackager modules and 
>>> represent contributions from Chris Bensen, Dmitry Cherepanov, and myself 
>>> finishing out the last details for JEP275.  This patch should make it 
>>> feature complete (but not bug complete, we got another milestone for that).
>>> 
>>> --Danno
>>> 
>> 
>>   

[9] Review request for 8091625: [Packager, Windows] launcher.exe stub should have version resource

[Dmitry Cherepanov]

Chris, Danno, Kevin,

Please review the following fix

https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8091625
http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~dcherepanov/8091625/webrev.v0/

Thanks,

Dmitry