Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Homer Horwitz]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 3:33 AM, Jeff Ames  wrote:
>...
> For a non-shared module, is there a functional difference between
> Initialise and AddRegion?  Likewise with RemoveRegion and Close.
Registration happens in Initialise, so when the AddRegion call happens, all the
modules are available already.

Same for RemoveRegion and Close:
During RemoveRegion, all the modules are still available. During
Close, some might
have been closed before your module is closed.

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Frisby, Adam  wrote:
>
>> For shared modules, is there some technical reason or use case that
>> requires a PostInitialise after Initialise?  The only case I can think
>> of is interdependent region modules that need each other to be
>> initialized before they can add regions.
>
> [Frisby, Adam]
>
> Close - it's more so you can start 'doing things' after every region has been 
> registered. Prior to PostInitialise you cannot be sure that everything has 
> been constructed yet, and/or other modules have registered their interfaces.

Actually, in the new one PostInitialise happens after every
*Initialise* has been run,
not after every *AddRegion* has been run. You just can't execute a method once
after all regions has been registered, as I can add regions on the fly
(that's one of
the problems I see with the old version as stated in the Wiki
article): You'll either
end up calling it more than once for some regions (if you call it
after every AddRegion),
or not at all for some regions (if you call it only once).

But for the intended new semantics: good point, Jedd, I added that
just because it is
in the current system. In PostInitialise, all the (shared) modules
have been registered
already. On the other hand, it's the same in AddRegion, and I'd find
it more consistent
to the non-shared modules to not depend on PostInitialise in the shared ones (in
AddRegion, the non-shared modules are available, too). If you have to
do something
that should happen after all the shared modules are initiali(z|s)ed,
it might make sense
to postpone it a bit further and do it when the first region is added.

So, +1 for making the interface a bit smaller and removing PostInitialise.

Cheers,
  Homer
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[MW]

Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many spelling 
systems or langauges as we can.

So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force people 
to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its just 
natural to spell as you normally do.

But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I said 
thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be wrong to 
swap it later because as more people joined they decided they didn't like the 
spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards at one time that 
we used UK spelling. 

And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere else.

But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big deal.

Sean Dague  wrote: bMW wrote:
> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in opensim 
> code. ;)   Or it used to be in there.
> 
> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system of 
> spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking the 
> US spelling as you do about UK ones. 
> 
> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US 
> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on 
> it at the start. 
> 
> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling 
> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)

Honestly, we should pick one and run with it, and I don't really care
which one.  The lack of standardization here causes plenty of confusion
for those of us not in auto-completing environments about which version
to use. :)

 -Sean

-- 
Sean Dague / Neas Bade
sda...@gmail.com
http://dague.net


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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[MW]

+1000, that sounds like a good compromise. Then everyone has to make a effect 
to make sure their spellings are correct.

"Frisby, Adam"  wrote:I can get 
our Shanghai office to translate our comments into Cantonese if that would 
help. J
   
From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of MW
 Sent: Saturday, 24 January 2009 4:56 PM
 To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
 Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the 
region-module system
  
  
   
  But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in opensim 
code. ;)   Or it used to be in there.
 
 But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system of 
spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking the US 
spelling as you do about UK ones. 
 
 But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US 
spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on it 
at the start. 
 
 But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling 
systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
 
 
 Dahlia Trimble  wrote:
  I'm not really a fan of UK zpelling,,, but I imagine people uzing grep could 
zearch for "initiali"

 I'll probably continue to uze the UZ englizh zpelling in my code ;)
  
 
  
 
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 4:32 PM, MW  wrote:
  I have to say I'm not a big fan of what I've seen of mono.addins so far. 
Maybe ExtensionLoader is better, so I do think we should look at that. As I 
think it is better to only have one system of loading plugins/modules. 
 
 As for initialise vs Initialize, hehe. Well personally I think it should stay 
as it is. I really see no reason to change it. I do know of other opensource 
projects that use initialise, Ogre being one. And it would be as hard for me to 
remember to look/search for Initialize as it would be for you to look for 
initialise.
 
 So my vote is a strong keep to UK english or even the mix we have (because 
some bits are in US english). But I really don't think people should have to 
switch code that is there to US english. Sorry thats a point I do feel quite 
strongly on.
 
 But saying that if everyone else voted in favour of that switch I wouldn't 
stand in the way. Just would think it was wrong. Any code I write is just 
likely to have uk spelling. The same way any code you write is likely to have 
US spelling. And opensim has had the UK spelling from the start.

 
 Ryan McDougall  wrote:
  
  On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Homer Horwitz
  
  wrote:
 > Hi all,
 >
 > the current system for handling region-modules is slightly broken if
 > you add/remove regions dynamically (or even for region-restarts). I've
 > put up some thoughts at
 > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/New_Region_Modules for discussion.
 > Please answer on the associated 'discussion' page or here on the list.
 >
 > Cheers,
 > Homer
 
 I have two requests:
 
 1. Can we unify RegionModules with IPlugin system I did a while ago?
 This would mean learning and using Mono.Addins, or ExtensionLoader if
 that is Mono.Addins's replacement.
 
 Let's just use one system. I am not sure there is a semantic reason
 why they should be different.
 
 I didn't touch it myself because I didn't/don't understand the
 delicate internals of RegionModules, and was worried about precisely
 the sort of issues raised by Homer.
 
 Also, Dispose() can be used in using{} statements. Lets use it, or
 have a base class default to Dispose(){ Close(); }.
 
 2. Can we standardize on US English?
 
 I know our illustrious founder MW speaks the Queen's English, which is
 the language of the educated; its not really fair to enforce the
 linguistic hegemony of the country that spawned GWB and Britany Spears
 in our dear pool of sanity and righteousness; but every open source
 project I've ever worked on spells it Initialize. Including
 Mono.Addins.
 
 You have no idea how times I had to grep my source for "Initialize" in
 order to make it compile. :(
 
 Cheers,
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Teravus Ovares]

Lets make purposeful mispellings..   like website addresses..  so that
when people type the correct ones, they go to a phishing site.


On 1/25/09, MW  wrote:
> +1000, that sounds like a good compromise. Then everyone has to make a
> effect to make sure their spellings are correct.
>
> "Frisby, Adam"  wrote:
>
> I can get our Shanghai office to translate our comments into Cantonese if
> that would help. J
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of
> MW
> Sent: Saturday, 24 January 2009 4:56 PM
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the
> region-module system
>
> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in opensim
> code. ;)   Or it used to be in there.
>
> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system of
> spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking the
> US spelling as you do about UK ones.
>
> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US
> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on
> it at the start.
>
> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling
> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
>
>
> Dahlia Trimble  wrote:
> I'm not really a fan of UK zpelling,,, but I imagine people uzing grep could
> zearch for "initiali"
>
> I'll probably continue to uze the UZ englizh zpelling in my code ;)
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 4:32 PM, MW  wrote:
> I have to say I'm not a big fan of what I've seen of mono.addins so far.
> Maybe ExtensionLoader is better, so I do think we should look at that. As I
> think it is better to only have one system of loading plugins/modules.
>
> As for initialise vs Initialize, hehe. Well personally I think it should
> stay as it is. I really see no reason to change it. I do know of other
> opensource projects that use initialise, Ogre being one. And it would be as
> hard for me to remember to look/search for Initialize as it would be for you
> to look for initialise.
>
> So my vote is a strong keep to UK english or even the mix we have (because
> some bits are in US english). But I really don't think people should have to
> switch code that is there to US english. Sorry thats a point I do feel quite
> strongly on.
>
> But saying that if everyone else voted in favour of that switch I wouldn't
> stand in the way. Just would think it was wrong. Any code I write is just
> likely to have uk spelling. The same way any code you write is likely to
> have US spelling. And opensim has had the UK spelling from the start.
>
>
> Ryan McDougall  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Homer Horwitz
>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > the current system for handling region-modules is slightly broken if
> > you add/remove regions dynamically (or even for region-restarts). I've
> > put up some thoughts at
> > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/New_Region_Modules for
> discussion.
> > Please answer on the associated 'discussion' page or here on the list.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Homer
>
> I have two requests:
>
> 1. Can we unify RegionModules with IPlugin system I did a while ago?
> This would mean learning and using Mono.Addins, or ExtensionLoader if
> that is Mono.Addins's replacement.
>
> Let's just use one system. I am not sure there is a semantic reason
> why they should be different.
>
> I didn't touch it myself because I didn't/don't understand the
> delicate internals of RegionModules, and was worried about precisely
> the sort of issues raised by Homer.
>
> Also, Dispose() can be used in using{} statements. Lets use it, or
> have a base class default to Dispose(){ Close(); }.
>
> 2. Can we standardize on US English?
>
> I know our illustrious founder MW speaks the Queen's English, which is
> the language of the educated; its not really fair to enforce the
> linguistic hegemony of the country that spawned GWB and Britany Spears
> in our dear pool of sanity and righteousness; but every open source
> project I've ever worked on spells it Initialize. Including
> Mono.Addins.
>
> You have no idea how times I had to grep my source for "Initialize" in
> order to make it compile. :(
>
> Cheers,
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>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Ryan McDougall]

My apologies for thread-jacking...

I just want to be clear I didn't propose it because I came later and
decided I didn't like UK spelling. I am Canadian and historically
Canadians have used UK spelling.

I proposed it for the same reason (US) English is the standard
language of all things international; business, science, open source,
etc: we have to pick one anyway, there will be more people unhappy
with the choice than happy, so might as well just pick the most common
one and suck it up.

That said, I don't actually care a lot UK v. US. However, I *do* think
there should be coding standards and I *do* think they should be
enforced, regardless of what any individual person likes. That means
naming conventions, indentation, and spelling. Its an issue of common
standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation.

Cheers,

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:35 PM, MW  wrote:
> Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many
> spelling systems or langauges as we can.
>
> So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force
> people to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its
> just natural to spell as you normally do.
>
> But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I
> said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be
> wrong to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they
> didn't like the spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards
> at one time that we used UK spelling.
>
> And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere else.
>
> But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big
> deal.
>
> Sean Dague  wrote:
>
> bMW wrote:
>> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in
>> opensim code. ;) Or it used to be in there.
>>
>> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system
>> of spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking
>> the US spelling as you do about UK ones.
>>
>> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US
>> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on
>> it at the start.
>>
>> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling
>> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
>
> Honestly, we should pick one and run with it, and I don't really care
> which one. The lack of standardization here causes plenty of confusion
> for those of us not in auto-completing environments about which version
> to use. :)
>
> -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> sda...@gmail.com
> http://dague.net
>
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Teravus Ovares]

Hmm..  whenever someone brings up "an issue of common
standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation", I get
suspitious.. what might he 'really' be trying to do?  *cough*..
anyway.

Wasn't there some kind of coding standards document on the wiki?
ohai! , it's here: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Coding_standards

Might want to move the s vs z debate to the discussion page?

-Teravus

On 1/25/09, Ryan McDougall  wrote:
> My apologies for thread-jacking...
>
> I just want to be clear I didn't propose it because I came later and
> decided I didn't like UK spelling. I am Canadian and historically
> Canadians have used UK spelling.
>
> I proposed it for the same reason (US) English is the standard
> language of all things international; business, science, open source,
> etc: we have to pick one anyway, there will be more people unhappy
> with the choice than happy, so might as well just pick the most common
> one and suck it up.
>
> That said, I don't actually care a lot UK v. US. However, I *do* think
> there should be coding standards and I *do* think they should be
> enforced, regardless of what any individual person likes. That means
> naming conventions, indentation, and spelling. Its an issue of common
> standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:35 PM, MW  wrote:
> > Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many
> > spelling systems or langauges as we can.
> >
> > So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force
> > people to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its
> > just natural to spell as you normally do.
> >
> > But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I
> > said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be
> > wrong to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they
> > didn't like the spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards
> > at one time that we used UK spelling.
> >
> > And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere else.
> >
> > But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big
> > deal.
> >
> > Sean Dague  wrote:
> >
> > bMW wrote:
> >> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in
> >> opensim code. ;) Or it used to be in there.
> >>
> >> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system
> >> of spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking
> >> the US spelling as you do about UK ones.
> >>
> >> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US
> >> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on
> >> it at the start.
> >>
> >> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling
> >> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
> >
> > Honestly, we should pick one and run with it, and I don't really care
> > which one. The lack of standardization here causes plenty of confusion
> > for those of us not in auto-completing environments about which version
> > to use. :)
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> > sda...@gmail.com
> > http://dague.net
> >
> >
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[Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"

[Americo Damasceno]

I need to confess that the first time I saw "horizons" beeing used in OpenSim 
was by Cristina and I did a big  mistake,  erasing her   panels.  Trying to 
compensate this, I am presenting, for download, some "horizons" that an old 
friend, an artist from UK (S. Nectar) made, some years ago, for Croquet and are 
public. The idea of "horizons" is to avoid the "island paradigma".
 
If you are not understanding anything, download the images and take a look.  
May be, could be created an easy way for the use of "horizons" in OpenSim 
worlds having only one region.
 
The address for download is:
 
http://www.dmu.com/croquet2/SNHorizons.zip 
 
Sorry again, Cristina. I promess that I will not to do something like I did 
again. 
 
Americo
 
 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[MW]

On that page it did use to say we used UK spelling, but that seems to have got 
lost through time. 

On this whole subject I do think we should stay with Uk spelling, but I don't 
see it as that big a deal, if we all decide to swap to US spellings then so be 
it.

But I don't agree that US spelling is the standard of open source. I think most 
opensource projects use it because there are more people in the world that use 
US spellings than UK. So the people starting those projects use whatever system 
they are used to. But in my mind that doesn't actually make it a standard per 
se. If you look at most of the opensource projects that were started by 
UK/Commonwealth people then they generally use UK spelling (again Ogre being a 
example). 

But again I think we should just vote and see what the result is. With a 
majority wins I guess.

Teravus Ovares  wrote: Hmm..  whenever someone brings up "an 
issue of common
standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation", I get
suspitious.. what might he 'really' be trying to do?  *cough*..
anyway.

Wasn't there some kind of coding standards document on the wiki?
ohai! , it's here: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Coding_standards

Might want to move the s vs z debate to the discussion page?

-Teravus

On 1/25/09, Ryan McDougall  wrote:
> My apologies for thread-jacking...
>
> I just want to be clear I didn't propose it because I came later and
> decided I didn't like UK spelling. I am Canadian and historically
> Canadians have used UK spelling.
>
> I proposed it for the same reason (US) English is the standard
> language of all things international; business, science, open source,
> etc: we have to pick one anyway, there will be more people unhappy
> with the choice than happy, so might as well just pick the most common
> one and suck it up.
>
> That said, I don't actually care a lot UK v. US. However, I *do* think
> there should be coding standards and I *do* think they should be
> enforced, regardless of what any individual person likes. That means
> naming conventions, indentation, and spelling. Its an issue of common
> standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:35 PM, MW  wrote:
> > Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many
> > spelling systems or langauges as we can.
> >
> > So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force
> > people to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its
> > just natural to spell as you normally do.
> >
> > But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I
> > said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be
> > wrong to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they
> > didn't like the spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards
> > at one time that we used UK spelling.
> >
> > And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere else.
> >
> > But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big
> > deal.
> >
> > Sean Dague  wrote:
> >
> > bMW wrote:
> >> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in
> >> opensim code. ;) Or it used to be in there.
> >>
> >> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system
> >> of spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking
> >> the US spelling as you do about UK ones.
> >>
> >> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US
> >> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on
> >> it at the start.
> >>
> >> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling
> >> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
> >
> > Honestly, we should pick one and run with it, and I don't really care
> > which one. The lack of standardization here causes plenty of confusion
> > for those of us not in auto-completing environments about which version
> > to use. :)
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> > sda...@gmail.com
> > http://dague.net
> >
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Ryan McDougall]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Teravus Ovares  wrote:
> Hmm..  whenever someone brings up "an issue of common
> standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation", I get
> suspitious.. what might he 'really' be trying to do?  *cough*..
> anyway.

Software Engineering?

>
> Wasn't there some kind of coding standards document on the wiki?
> ohai! , it's here: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Coding_standards

Now if only one day it'll be followed

>
> Might want to move the s vs z debate to the discussion page?
>
> -Teravus
>
> On 1/25/09, Ryan McDougall  wrote:
>> My apologies for thread-jacking...
>>
>> I just want to be clear I didn't propose it because I came later and
>> decided I didn't like UK spelling. I am Canadian and historically
>> Canadians have used UK spelling.
>>
>> I proposed it for the same reason (US) English is the standard
>> language of all things international; business, science, open source,
>> etc: we have to pick one anyway, there will be more people unhappy
>> with the choice than happy, so might as well just pick the most common
>> one and suck it up.
>>
>> That said, I don't actually care a lot UK v. US. However, I *do* think
>> there should be coding standards and I *do* think they should be
>> enforced, regardless of what any individual person likes. That means
>> naming conventions, indentation, and spelling. Its an issue of common
>> standards, professionalism, code quality, and cooperation.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:35 PM, MW  wrote:
>> > Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many
>> > spelling systems or langauges as we can.
>> >
>> > So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force
>> > people to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its
>> > just natural to spell as you normally do.
>> >
>> > But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I
>> > said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be
>> > wrong to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they
>> > didn't like the spelling system. We really did have it in the code 
>> > standards
>> > at one time that we used UK spelling.
>> >
>> > And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere 
>> > else.
>> >
>> > But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big
>> > deal.
>> >
>> > Sean Dague  wrote:
>> >
>> > bMW wrote:
>> >> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in
>> >> opensim code. ;) Or it used to be in there.
>> >>
>> >> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system
>> >> of spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking
>> >> the US spelling as you do about UK ones.
>> >>
>> >> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US
>> >> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working 
>> >> on
>> >> it at the start.
>> >>
>> >> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling
>> >> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
>> >
>> > Honestly, we should pick one and run with it, and I don't really care
>> > which one. The lack of standardization here causes plenty of confusion
>> > for those of us not in auto-completing environments about which version
>> > to use. :)
>> >
>> > -Sean
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sean Dague / Neas Bade
>> > sda...@gmail.com
>> > http://dague.net
>> >
>> >
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[MW]

Or we can use either '2' or '5' instead of  'Z' and 'S' . 

'2' being closer to Z. And '5' being closer to S.

So maybe we should vote on if it should be 2 or 5 we use. 

Teravus Ovares  wrote: Lets make purposeful mispellings..   
like website addresses..  so that
when people type the correct ones, they go to a phishing site.


On 1/25/09, MW  wrote:
> +1000, that sounds like a good compromise. Then everyone has to make a
> effect to make sure their spellings are correct.
>
> "Frisby, Adam"  wrote:
>
> I can get our Shanghai office to translate our comments into Cantonese if
> that would help. J
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of
> MW
> Sent: Saturday, 24 January 2009 4:56 PM
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the
> region-module system
>
> But it is in our code standards somewhere that we use UK spelling in opensim
> code. ;)   Or it used to be in there.
>
> But no I don't think really we can force people to use a different system of
> spelling to what they are used to. As I feel as strong about not liking the
> US spelling as you do about UK ones.
>
> But I would be extremely sad if all the current code was swapped to US
> spelling. This was started as a UK project as it was just myself working on
> it at the start.
>
> But its now a international project, let lets try and get as many spelling
> systems as possible in there, lets even try for different languages ;)
>
>
> Dahlia Trimble  wrote:
> I'm not really a fan of UK zpelling,,, but I imagine people uzing grep could
> zearch for "initiali"
>
> I'll probably continue to uze the UZ englizh zpelling in my code ;)
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 4:32 PM, MW  wrote:
> I have to say I'm not a big fan of what I've seen of mono.addins so far.
> Maybe ExtensionLoader is better, so I do think we should look at that. As I
> think it is better to only have one system of loading plugins/modules.
>
> As for initialise vs Initialize, hehe. Well personally I think it should
> stay as it is. I really see no reason to change it. I do know of other
> opensource projects that use initialise, Ogre being one. And it would be as
> hard for me to remember to look/search for Initialize as it would be for you
> to look for initialise.
>
> So my vote is a strong keep to UK english or even the mix we have (because
> some bits are in US english). But I really don't think people should have to
> switch code that is there to US english. Sorry thats a point I do feel quite
> strongly on.
>
> But saying that if everyone else voted in favour of that switch I wouldn't
> stand in the way. Just would think it was wrong. Any code I write is just
> likely to have uk spelling. The same way any code you write is likely to
> have US spelling. And opensim has had the UK spelling from the start.
>
>
> Ryan McDougall  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Homer Horwitz
>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > the current system for handling region-modules is slightly broken if
> > you add/remove regions dynamically (or even for region-restarts). I've
> > put up some thoughts at
> > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/New_Region_Modules for
> discussion.
> > Please answer on the associated 'discussion' page or here on the list.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Homer
>
> I have two requests:
>
> 1. Can we unify RegionModules with IPlugin system I did a while ago?
> This would mean learning and using Mono.Addins, or ExtensionLoader if
> that is Mono.Addins's replacement.
>
> Let's just use one system. I am not sure there is a semantic reason
> why they should be different.
>
> I didn't touch it myself because I didn't/don't understand the
> delicate internals of RegionModules, and was worried about precisely
> the sort of issues raised by Homer.
>
> Also, Dispose() can be used in using{} statements. Lets use it, or
> have a base class default to Dispose(){ Close(); }.
>
> 2. Can we standardize on US English?
>
> I know our illustrious founder MW speaks the Queen's English, which is
> the language of the educated; its not really fair to enforce the
> linguistic hegemony of the country that spawned GWB and Britany Spears
> in our dear pool of sanity and righteousness; but every open source
> project I've ever worked on spells it Initialize. Including
> Mono.Addins.
>
> You have no idea how times I had to grep my source for "Initialize" in
> order to make it compile. :(
>
> Cheers,
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Homer Horwitz]

As this thread has been thoroughly hijacked, I guess there aren't any
further relevant (um, I meant technical) problems with the proposal?

Cheers,
  Homer
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Re: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"

[Mircea Kitsune]

I'm not sure what mistake it is that happened but all I can say from these 
screenshots is that this looks totally beautiful. I always dreamed of seeing 
long and far away land instead of the close islands and water everywhere else, 
but didn't think that could really be solved. Will that be included in Opensim 
by default as a terrain generator for empty spaces? That view is almost as 
beautiful and perfect as in real life with the Windlight system... just awesome 
:)

From: adama...@hotmail.com
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:04:47 -0300
Subject: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"








I need to confess that the first time I saw "horizons" beeing used in OpenSim 
was by Cristina and I did a big  mistake,  erasing her   panels.  Trying to 
compensate this, I am presenting, for download, some "horizons" that an old 
friend, an artist from UK (S. Nectar) made, some years ago, for Croquet and are 
public. The idea of "horizons" is to avoid the "island paradigma".

 

If you are not understanding anything, download the images and take a look.  
May be, could be created an easy way for the use of "horizons" in OpenSim 
worlds having only one region.

 

The address for download is:

 

http://www.dmu.com/croquet2/SNHorizons.zip 

 

Sorry again, Cristina. I promess that I will not to do something like I did 
again. 

 

Americo

 

 

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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Sean Dague]

MW wrote:
> Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many spelling 
> systems or langauges as we can.
> 
> So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force people 
> to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its just 
> natural to spell as you normally do.
> 
> But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I 
> said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be wrong 
> to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they didn't like 
> the spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards at one time 
> that we used UK spelling. 
> 
> And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere else.
> 
> But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big 
> deal.

What if we just shorten it to Init?  It has the advantages of being
short, and not running into spelling nuances.  If people like such a
plan, I'll convert the code next week to it.

-Sean

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Re: [Opensim-dev] [Opensim-users] Please UCI, help our basic tutorial!‏

[Olish Newman]

2009/1/25 Brianna 
>
>
> We will add New World,  Olish Newman, this weekend and another well built
> node this coming week.
>
> Bri
>


Hi all ! :D

As we talked with Bri we were happy to put an Hypergrid node somewhere for
New World Grid, but our time have been insufficient for this as we have
focused on other things. We are looking for another solution in the mean
time that's why we have not announced anything officially.

Regards,

-- 
Olivier BATTINI
aka Olish Newman on New World Grid

http://www.newworldgrid.com
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Region crossing and its requests to UGAIMs

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Impalah wrote:
> Hi everyone:
> 
> I'm developing (or trying to...) an UGAIM system over a LAMP (or WAMP) 
> system and I have some questions about the requests sent from region 
> servers to UGAIM (user and inventory servers). I'm using the "stable" 
> 0.6 version of opensim.
> 
> When crossing a region I have detected three requests:
> * Get avatar appearance
> * Get avatar inventory
> * Update region into agent data
> 
> These three requests make the avatar to "shiver" when entering a new 
> region if the response is not fast enough (or even make the avatar move 
> some meters while waiting the response, and then return to the point it 
> entered).
> 
> I'm able to understand the 1st and the 3rd, well, maybe I have some 
> doubts about the 1st... but the second (request FULL inventory) I think 
> is what "lags" the region entering.
> 
> Actually (version 0.6 remember) when requesting an inventory is the FULL 
> inventory. For testing, maybe no problem, but if I have 100 folders an 
> 1000 items... the initial 6kbyte inventory grows to something like 100k, 
> and the lag make my avie to walk till the middle of the region and then 
> return back...
> 
> My question: is really necessary to get the full inventory when crossing 
> regions?

The code to request the entire agent's inventory information (though not 
assets, of course) from the inventory service 
has been in place for quite a long time (at least a year).

It does make things simpler from a coding perspective and may actually be 
better in making inventory more responsive to 
the user (an inventory request only happens once, not on every request from the 
client, which means latency only needs 
to be suffered once and the inventory server doesn't have to respond to lots of 
tiny requests.  I shouldn't think that 
the amount of data being delivered, even for an inventory with 1000s of 
objects, is all that large - certainly no larger 
than a single detailed texture).  That's not to say that this implementation 
won't change in the future.

In theory, this latency should not cause any problems on region crossing since 
it is carried out asynchronously.  So any 
region crossing lag you are experiencing should be down to other issues.  I'd 
be interested to see any detailed evidence 
that this is not the case (probably the most controlled way would be to 
introduce artificial pauses for inventory 
responses and see what happens - anecdotal evidence is not good enough).

> 
> And the secondary question: Is there any implemented or at least a 
> semi-implemented method to deliver only parts of the inventory ("a la SL 
> style")?

No

> 
> Greetings
> 
> Impalah "Sea of doubts" Shenshou
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Homer Horwitz wrote:
> As this thread has been thoroughly hijacked, I guess there aren't any
> further relevant (um, I meant technical) problems with the proposal?
> 

Could you wait a couple more days on this?  I don't really have the opportunity 
to give this the attention that it 
deserves today (Sunday) and I may not be around at all tomorrow but I should 
have some think time on Tuesday.

Perhaps having a standard timeframe of something like a week for responses to 
proposals would be a good idea.

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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Homer Horwitz]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
 wrote:
> Could you wait a couple more days on this?  I don't really have the 
> opportunity to give this the attention that it
> deserves today (Sunday) and I may not be around at all tomorrow but I should 
> have some think time on Tuesday.
>
> Perhaps having a standard timeframe of something like a week for responses to 
> proposals would be a good idea.
Yes, I planned to do that anyway, I just wanted to try to get the
thread back on topic. I'll wait 'til next weekend (won't have much
time before that anyway).

Cheers,
  Homer
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Homer Horwitz wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
>  wrote:
>> Could you wait a couple more days on this?  I don't really have the 
>> opportunity to give this the attention that it
>> deserves today (Sunday) and I may not be around at all tomorrow but I should 
>> have some think time on Tuesday.
>>
>> Perhaps having a standard timeframe of something like a week for responses 
>> to proposals would be a good idea.
> Yes, I planned to do that anyway, I just wanted to try to get the
> thread back on topic. I'll wait 'til next weekend (won't have much
> time before that anyway).

Heh, thanks Homer, you're a good'un.

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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[MW]

Sounds good to me. If as it is, is really causing problems.

Sean Dague  wrote: MW wrote:
> Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many spelling 
> systems or langauges as we can.
> 
> So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force people 
> to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its just 
> natural to spell as you normally do.
> 
> But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I 
> said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be wrong 
> to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they didn't like 
> the spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards at one time 
> that we used UK spelling. 
> 
> And also we have about as many core developers from the UK as anywhere else.
> 
> But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big 
> deal.

What if we just shorten it to Init?  It has the advantages of being
short, and not running into spelling nuances.  If people like such a
plan, I'll convert the code next week to it.

 -Sean

-- 
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sda...@gmail.com
http://dague.net


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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[MW]

actually should we wait a while and get more reaction. As this is going to 
effect anyone who has a module that isn't in trunk. Seems a lot of hasle for 
such a small thing.

Would seem better to wait and make the change when/if we change to homer's new 
module interface.

MW  wrote: Sounds good to me. If as it is, is really 
causing problems.

Sean Dague  wrote: MW wrote:
> Yeah I wasn't really being serious that we should try to get as many spelling 
> systems or langauges as we can.
> 
> So I do agree that it would be best to have one, but its hard to force people 
> to use one system if that is different to what they are used to. Its just 
> natural to spell as you normally do.
> 
> But if we are going with one then my vote has to be for UK spelling, as I 
> said thats how the project started and to be honest I think it would be wrong 
> to swap it later because as more people joined they decided they didn't like 
> the spelling system. We really did have it in the code standards at one time 
> that we used UK spelling. 
> 
> And also we have about as many core developers  from the UK as anywhere else.
> 
> But saying all that in the grand scheme of things this isn't really a big 
> deal.

What if we just shorten it to Init?  It has the advantages of being
short, and not running into spelling nuances.  If people like such a
plan, I'll convert the code next week to it.

 -Sean

-- 
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sda...@gmail.com
http://dague.net


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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Sean Dague]

MW wrote:
> actually should we wait a while and get more reaction. As this is going to 
> effect anyone who has a module that isn't in trunk. Seems a lot of hasle for 
> such a small thing.
> 
> Would seem better to wait and make the change when/if we change to homer's 
> new module interface.

Yes, agreed.  I'll both wait for reactions, and wait for Homer's work,
to minimize the number of times we break things.  I think normalizing
that would make sense prior to 0.7, just to give us some more
consistency.  I know every time I walk someone new through parts of the
code there is a lot of head scratching over the inconsistency.  For
those of us that have been here a long time, we are used to it.  From
the outside it looks like we are all just a bunch of crazies... which
may or may not be true, but I'd rather not get the reputation from
method naming. :)

-Sean

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Re: [Opensim-dev] TSB Feasibility Study: Online Virtual Worlds for Urban Regeneration Consultation

[Ben Francis]

Hi,

Firstly, thank you for all the responses, it gives me a good starting point.

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Dr Scofield wrote:

>
> as we are looking at similar OpenSim applications, i'd be interested in
> learning
> more about this study. any links that we could follow up?


Hi Dr S,

I'm afraid I don't really have anything much more related to OpenSim than is
posted on this thread. I have found some interesting work on other projects
though.

Some interesting proprietary examples for inspiration are an Israeli company
called GeoSim  and the new virtual Berlin in
Twinity . Google Earth
Enterprise&
Earth
API  provide practical solutions to some
GIS tasks, though not really a virtual world in the sense of OpenSim.

There's some very interesting standardisation work going on at the Web3D
Consortium  under the
X3D-Earthworking group, though they
haven't publically published anything since 2007,
their work is ongoing and they are collaborating with the Open Geospatial
Consoritum .

As for OpenSim, I'm still exploring (though I'm running out of time). The
Orcas island example  that Nebadon posted a link to is quite neat (or at
least the improved
versionlinked
to from the blog post) and the Berkeley simulation from lidar images
also provides a good example.

If anyone has time for a quick response, I do have some more general
questions about OpenSim.

*GIS Import*

As far as I can tell the examples given so far are all essentially creating
terrains from raster data. What I'm more interested in is creating accurate
models based on vector map data, particularly in the UK from Ordnance Survey
MasterMap data. I've not yet seen any examples of this kind of thing.

*Asset Import*

A basic question, how does OpenSim natively represent geometry? What data
format or data structure does it use? Presumably people have experience
importing assets from a variety of formats? COLLADA? 3DS? X3D?

*Asset Library & Manipulation*

Does OpenSim have the same kind of experience as Second Life for being able
to pick 3d assets from an asset library and manipulate them in real time in
the scene? Can multiple avatars manipulate the same object?

*Map Size Constraints*

How does this work? Is it one 256x256m region per machine, with them linked
together?

*In-world Communication*

Presumably OpenSim has the same kind of IM as Second Life? I've been reading
on the mailing list about VoIP support today, it seems it's coming?

*Running Costs*

Does anyone have any figures for how much it costs to host OpenSim regions
in terms of hardware etc.? I remember the story about a Second Life sim
alledgedly using more power than a typical Brazilian! What are the typical
hardware system requirements?

*Skillset*

What kind of skillset would be required for a developer embarking on a
project using OpenSim? C#? What else?

Thanks for your input everyone!

Regards

Ben


-- 
Ben Francis
http://tola.me.uk
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Region crossing and its requests to UGAIMs

[Impalah]

Hi Justin, thank you for the answer.

I followed one of your advices and added 5 seconds pauses in the three
functions of my ugaim.

The results are what I supossed, now the avie goes beyond middle region and
returns to the entering point when the region server receives the answer to
"update agent region".

I'll test my system looking for table locks or something like that, but my
first thinking is that the region server calls aren't completely
asynchronous.

Greetings


2009/1/25 Justin Clark-Casey 

> Impalah wrote:
> > Hi everyone:
> >
> > I'm developing (or trying to...) an UGAIM system over a LAMP (or WAMP)
> > system and I have some questions about the requests sent from region
> > servers to UGAIM (user and inventory servers). I'm using the "stable"
> > 0.6 version of opensim.
> >
> > When crossing a region I have detected three requests:
> > * Get avatar appearance
> > * Get avatar inventory
> > * Update region into agent data
> >
> > These three requests make the avatar to "shiver" when entering a new
> > region if the response is not fast enough (or even make the avatar move
> > some meters while waiting the response, and then return to the point it
> > entered).
> >
> > I'm able to understand the 1st and the 3rd, well, maybe I have some
> > doubts about the 1st... but the second (request FULL inventory) I think
> > is what "lags" the region entering.
> >
> > Actually (version 0.6 remember) when requesting an inventory is the FULL
> > inventory. For testing, maybe no problem, but if I have 100 folders an
> > 1000 items... the initial 6kbyte inventory grows to something like 100k,
> > and the lag make my avie to walk till the middle of the region and then
> > return back...
> >
> > My question: is really necessary to get the full inventory when crossing
> > regions?
>
> The code to request the entire agent's inventory information (though not
> assets, of course) from the inventory service
> has been in place for quite a long time (at least a year).
>
> It does make things simpler from a coding perspective and may actually be
> better in making inventory more responsive to
> the user (an inventory request only happens once, not on every request from
> the client, which means latency only needs
> to be suffered once and the inventory server doesn't have to respond to
> lots of tiny requests.  I shouldn't think that
> the amount of data being delivered, even for an inventory with 1000s of
> objects, is all that large - certainly no larger
> than a single detailed texture).  That's not to say that this
> implementation won't change in the future.
>
> In theory, this latency should not cause any problems on region crossing
> since it is carried out asynchronously.  So any
> region crossing lag you are experiencing should be down to other issues.
>  I'd be interested to see any detailed evidence
> that this is not the case (probably the most controlled way would be to
> introduce artificial pauses for inventory
> responses and see what happens - anecdotal evidence is not good enough).
>
> >
> > And the secondary question: Is there any implemented or at least a
> > semi-implemented method to deliver only parts of the inventory ("a la SL
> > style")?
>
> No
>
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Impalah "Sea of doubts" Shenshou
> >
> >
> > 
> >
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Re: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"

[Cristina Videira Lopes]

Hey Americo,

Those are beautiful! Thanks for sharing!
If all mistakes would end up like this, I'm looking forward to see more 
mistakes :-)


Crista

PS The background story is that Americo deleted the panels I had in one 
of the Gateways :-) They're back.



Americo Damasceno wrote:
I need to confess that the first time I saw "horizons" beeing used in 
OpenSim was by Cristina and I did a big  mistake,  
erasing her   panels.  Trying to compensate this, I am presenting, for 
download, some "horizons" that an old friend, an artist from UK (S. 
Nectar) made, some years ago, for Croquet and are public. The idea of 
"horizons" is to avoid the "island paradigma".
 
If you are not understanding anything, download the images and take a 
look.  May be, could be created an easy way for the use of 
"horizons" in OpenSim worlds having only one region.
 
The address for download is:
 
http://www.dmu.com/croquet2/SNHorizons.zip 
 
Sorry again, Cristina. I promess that I will not to do something like 
I did again.
 
Americo
 
 



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[Opensim-dev] Conversion to IClientCore

[Frisby, Adam]

Hi guys,

I've been somewhat distracted lately getting ModRex up and running that I 
haven't had time to finish the conversion process I started back in November 
from the IClientAPI interfaces to IClientCore ones. I would like to see if we 
can get some additional people in writing patches to add the new IClientCore 
interfaces.

The process is fairly simple, and I hope we can organise some kind of effort 
ala the LSL-functions effort where a list is composed then split up into 
discrete tasks that are more palletable to a community effort.

For those interested in the technical details of what needs to be done - it's a 
case of:

Phase 1

-  Find a group of functions and events in IClientAPI.cs that are 
related (eg, Chat, Parcels, TerrainData, etc)

-  Create a new IClient.cs file (eg IClientChat.cs) and cut and 
paste those functions and events into the new interface.

-  Add "IClientType" to LLClientView.cs to inherit from, and update the 
function at the bottom to Register the extra interface.

-  Rinse and Repeat until all functions have IClient.cs's.

Once we've added new interfaces for everything, it becomes time to start 
porting over modules to use the newer interfaces

Phase 2

-  Find references to IClientAPI and replace them with IClientCore 
equivilents. There's a page on the wiki ("OpenSim 0.6 IClientAPI") which 
contains examples and an example howto.

Anyone (Charles?) feel like drawing up the list of items to be ported and begin 
the work?

Regards,

Adam
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Mike Mazur]

Hi,

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:59:26 +0200
Ryan McDougall  wrote:

> 1. Can we unify RegionModules with IPlugin system I did a while ago?
> This would mean learning and using Mono.Addins, or ExtensionLoader if
> that is Mono.Addins's replacement.

I'd like to suggest sticking with Mono.Addins.

While it is a bit big, has a steeper learning curve and requires more
calls to load a module, it may prove to be pretty useful in the future
when people want to do more complicated things with modules. It is
being actively developed by a wider community, is used in large
projects and is based on the Eclipse add-in engine[1].

ExtensionLoader is nice and small and loads modules well. If/when
OpenSim graduates to more complex module use cases, we may find
ExtensionLoader lacking. Any missing features in ExtensionLoader would
need to be coded by those who need it.

Mike


[1] http://www.mono-project.com/Introduction_to_Mono.Addins
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[Opensim-dev] Source tree cleanup

[Jeff Ames]

Hello,

There are a few dusty corners in trunk from before
forge.opensimulator.org was up, but I was wondering about moving them
over, or merging them with core.

* OpenSim/Tools/LaunchSLClient

  Can this be merged with the SL Launcher project on forge?
  (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/sllauncher/)

* OpenSim/Tools/Windows/Installer

  Can this be moved to the OpenSim Installers project SVN?
  (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/osinstaller/)

* ThirdParty/*

  Could these either be merged into the OpenSim namespace or moved to
  forge?

* OpenSim/Tools/pCampBot

  Could we move this to forge?  (There is also the OSBots project on
  forge, but I don't know if this is similar)

* OpenSim/Tools/OpenSim.32BitLaunch
* OpenSim/Tools/OpenSim.GridLaunch
* share/RegionLoading
* share/php
* share/python

  Could we move these to forge?

Jeff
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Source tree cleanup

[Sean Dague]

Jeff Ames wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> There are a few dusty corners in trunk from before
> forge.opensimulator.org was up, but I was wondering about moving them
> over, or merging them with core.
> 
> * OpenSim/Tools/LaunchSLClient
> 
>   Can this be merged with the SL Launcher project on forge?
>   (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/sllauncher/)

+1

> * OpenSim/Tools/Windows/Installer
> 
>   Can this be moved to the OpenSim Installers project SVN?
>   (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/osinstaller/)

+1

> * ThirdParty/*
> 
>   Could these either be merged into the OpenSim namespace or moved to
>   forge?

+1

> * OpenSim/Tools/pCampBot
> 
>   Could we move this to forge?  (There is also the OSBots project on
>   forge, but I don't know if this is similar)

I'm more ambivalent on this one, as I know a few people using this to
try to load test builds of opensim.

> * OpenSim/Tools/OpenSim.32BitLaunch
> * OpenSim/Tools/OpenSim.GridLaunch
> * share/RegionLoading
> * share/php
> * share/python
> 
>   Could we move these to forge?

We could always just remove them from trunk, and anyone that wanted them
in a forge project could grab a previous snapshot to get them there.

-Sean

-- 
Sean Dague / Neas Bade
sda...@gmail.com
http://dague.net




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[Opensim-dev] mantis resolved vs. closed

[Jeff Ames]

Hello,

Sorry for the likely email spewage, but I closed a bunch of bugs that
were marked resolved with no update in the last month.

I was wondering though, what is the difference between resolved and
closed on mantis?  I guess that is useful if the devs mark it
resolved, and QA tests it and marks it closed.  Or I've seen the dev
mark it resolved, and the reporter re-tests and marks it closed.  But
many reporters don't do this.  Do we need a separate resolved and
closed state?

Jeff
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Re: [Opensim-dev] mantis resolved vs. closed

[Nebadon Izumi]

I always saw it as that when a developer or someone marked a ticket as
resolved it meant they made an attempt to resolve this item and that the
filer needs to test it and either close the ticket or re-open back to a true
bug status, and only the reporter should close the ticket, that is until a
certain amount of time passes then either a manager or developer should
close the ticket as they see fit.

Hope this helps.

Nebadon
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Re: [Opensim-dev] mantis resolved vs. closed

[nlin]

Hello,

One possible source of confusion is that the OpenSim wiki says "Please leave
closing of bugs to core team. A closed bug means we think it's gone forever,
or the bug report is invalid." (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Bugs) That may
explain why lots of issues remain in the "resolved" state. Is the wiki
statement no longer valid?

-nlin

2009/1/26 Nebadon Izumi 

> I always saw it as that when a developer or someone marked a ticket as
> resolved it meant they made an attempt to resolve this item and that the
> filer needs to test it and either close the ticket or re-open back to a true
> bug status, and only the reporter should close the ticket, that is until a
> certain amount of time passes then either a manager or developer should
> close the ticket as they see fit.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Nebadon
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a cleanup/correction of the region-module system

[Stefan Andersson]

Ok, so I suggest we establish an 0.7 roadmap page. With that one as a 
'definite', not a 'discussion'.Best regards,Stefan AnderssonTribal Media AB > 
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:27:29 -0500> From: sda...@gmail.com> To: 
opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Proposal for a 
cleanup/correction of the region-module system> > MW wrote:> > actually should 
we wait a while and get more reaction. As this is going to effect anyone who 
has a module that isn't in trunk. Seems a lot of hasle for such a small thing.> 
> > > Would seem better to wait and make the change when/if we change to 
homer's new module interface.> > Yes, agreed. I'll both wait for reactions, and 
wait for Homer's work,> to minimize the number of times we break things. I 
think normalizing> that would make sense prior to 0.7, just to give us some 
more> consistency. I know every time I walk someone new through parts of the> 
code there is a lot of head scratching over the inconsistency. For> those of us 
that have been here a long time, we are used to it. From> the outside it looks 
like we are all just a bunch of crazies... which> may or may not be true, but 
I'd rather not get the reputation from> method naming. :)> > -Sean> > -- > Sean 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] mantis resolved vs. closed

[Nebadon Izumi]

I agree this is confusing and should be changed to be more inline with the
reality of things, though i wont rush to change it right now so we can
gather more comments and come to some sort of consensus on the terms of
this.

Neb

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:29 PM, nlin  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> One possible source of confusion is that the OpenSim wiki says "Please
> leave closing of bugs to core team. A closed bug means we think it's gone
> forever, or the bug report is invalid." (
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Bugs) That may explain why lots of issues
> remain in the "resolved" state. Is the wiki statement no longer valid?
>
> -nlin
>
> 2009/1/26 Nebadon Izumi 
>
>> I always saw it as that when a developer or someone marked a ticket as
>> resolved it meant they made an attempt to resolve this item and that the
>> filer needs to test it and either close the ticket or re-open back to a true
>> bug status, and only the reporter should close the ticket, that is until a
>> certain amount of time passes then either a manager or developer should
>> close the ticket as they see fit.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Nebadon
>>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"

[Stefan Andersson]

Americo,
do I understand it correctly that these beautiful images are to be used as 
textures on 'wall' prims around an island estate?
 
Something that might also be of interest, is that a prim can be much larger 
than a region (anybody knows exactly how big?) so a horizon texture could, in 
theory span say 768 metres. Which might yield some interesting effects, 
especially if the horizon is wide-lensed and the avatar is prohibited from 
walking closer to the horizon than say 100 metres. Best regards,Stefan 
AnderssonTribal Media AB
 



From: adama...@hotmail.comto: opensim-...@lists.berlios.dedate: Sun, 25 Jan 
2009 08:04:47 -0300Subject: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I 
am sorry"

I need to confess that the first time I saw "horizons" beeing used in OpenSim 
was by Cristina and I did a big  mistake,  erasing her   panels.  Trying to 
compensate this, I am presenting, for download, some "horizons" that an old 
friend, an artist from UK (S. Nectar) made, some years ago, for Croquet and are 
public. The idea of "horizons" is to avoid the "island paradigma". If you are 
not understanding anything, download the images and take a look.  May be, could 
be created an easy way for the use of "horizons" in OpenSim worlds having only 
one region. The address for download is: 
http://www.dmu.com/croquet2/SNHorizons.zip  Sorry again, Cristina. I promess 
that I will not to do something like I did again.  Americo  



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Re: [Opensim-dev] Source tree cleanup

[Stefan Andersson]

I propose you specify a weeks voting deadline - always specify 'unless any 
storng objections, I will start doing this next monday' or so.
 
> > * OpenSim/Tools/LaunchSLClient> > > > Can this be merged with the SL 
> > Launcher project on forge?> > 
> > (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/sllauncher/)
 +1
> > * OpenSim/Tools/Windows/Installer> > > > Can this be moved to the OpenSim 
> > Installers project SVN?> > 
> > (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/osinstaller/)
 +1
> > * ThirdParty/*> > > > Could these either be merged into the OpenSim 
> > namespace or moved to> > forge?
 +1 - onto forge.
> > * OpenSim/Tools/pCampBot> > > > Could we move this to forge? (There is also 
> > the OSBots project on> > forge, but I don't know if this is similar)> > I'm 
> > more ambivalent on this one, as I know a few people using this to> try to 
> > load test builds of opensim.
I agree that this tools is such a handy thing to have nearby that it merits 
core status. I wouldn't object strongly if it was put on forge though.
 
> > * OpenSim/Tools/OpenSim.32BitLaunch> > * OpenSim/Tools/OpenSim.GridLaunch> 
> > > * share/RegionLoading> > * share/php> > * share/python> > > > Could we 
> > move these to forge?> > We could always just remove them from trunk, and 
> > anyone that wanted them> in a forge project could grab a previous snapshot 
> > to get them there.
+1 on Seans approach.
/Stefan
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Re: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"

[Dahlia Trimble]

They look like they could be used for a skybox or a skydome, but I don't
think those work too well in SL unless the client draw distance is set
sufficiently high.

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Stefan Andersson wrote:

>  Americo,
>
> do I understand it correctly that these beautiful images are to be used as
> textures on 'wall' prims around an island estate?
>
> Something that might also be of interest, is that a prim can be much larger
> than a region (anybody knows exactly how big?) so a horizon texture could,
> in theory span say 768 metres. Which might yield some interesting effects,
> especially if the horizon is wide-lensed and the avatar is prohibited from
> walking closer to the horizon than say 100 metres.
>
> Best regards,
> Stefan Andersson
> Tribal Media AB
>
>
>
> --
>
> From: adama...@hotmail.com
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:04:47 -0300
> Subject: [Opensim-dev] "Horizons" (panels) and a public "I am sorry"
>
>  I need to confess that the first time I saw "horizons" beeing used in
> OpenSim was by Cristina and I did a big  mistake,  erasing her   panels.
> Trying to compensate this, I am presenting, for download, some "horizons"
> that an old friend, an artist from UK (S. Nectar) made, some years ago, for
> Croquet and are public. The idea of "horizons" is to avoid the "island
> paradigma".
>
> If you are not understanding anything, download the images and take a
> look.  May be, could be created an easy way for the use of "horizons" in
> OpenSim worlds having only one region.
>
> The address for download is:
>
> http://www.dmu.com/croquet2/SNHorizons.zip
>
> Sorry again, Cristina. I promess that I will not to do something like I did
> again.
>
> Americo
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> check out the rest of the Windows Live™. More than mail–Windows Live™ goes
> way beyond your inbox. More than 
> messages
>
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