[Opensim-dev] It's that time of year again - GSoC 2009

[Frisby, Adam]

Hey everyone,

We're approaching the time when we'll be able to submit an application to 
Google for Summer of Code sponsorship. We submitted an application last year 
which wasn't accepted, but we'd like to try again given we're a year older, 
wiser and more famous ;).

We need to build the following (and I propose re-using our wiki page for it):

-  List of developers (ideally core devs) who have time available to 
act as mentors.

-  List of ideas for student projects, with a difficulty attached as 
well as a 'skills needed' / keywords.

-  If any projects from last year's used OpenSim, I'd like to know 
about them (I know OpenCog did a successful GSOC on an OpenSim bridge)

If anyone wants to get involved in the application process, there's plenty to 
do, but the above would be a good start.

Adam
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

[Tommi Laukkanen]

Hello Mike,

Thank you for your professional reply. I have tried to reach you in irc
immediately after you first commented the mantis but we seem to be in
different time zones.

The NHibernate unit tests are not in the build as the system is still in
experimental state. We have not tried to push them into build yet to avoid
hindering the OpenSim development before there is clear indication that
NHibernate storage is complete and mature enough to be used in production
systems. Currently we are intentionally playing catchup with rest of the
systems.

I was talking with mikkopa and he suggested we should create two tables to
cover AssetBase to solve this issue properly. Namely AssetMetadata for
metadata information and AssetData for blobs to avoid situation where we end
up accessing also the blob data just to read metadata.  He thought you had
something like this in mind when you moved metadata fields to aggregate
object. This approach would also fix the double id issue which is caused by
the fact that nhibernate to my best knowledge does not support reading
object primary id from aggregate object.

I apologize if I overreacted. It is hard for me to read people and
intentions in online environments.

regards,
Tommi
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Lc]

http://15timez.blogspot.com/2009/02/sl-in-world-transactions-to-be-taxed.html)

April 1st, 2009. meh ...

Sacha

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 12:53 AM, Mike Huntington wrote:

> I shouldve made it clear that these will be split into different modules.
> So those that don't want economy won't have to use that module.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 13, 2009, at 6:33 PM, "Chris Hart"  wrote:
>
>  I can understand why groups and economy could be linked for various
> reasons, but I would personally prefer that sort of thing broken apart –
> just sharing on building via groups, sharing objects with group, would all
> be really lovely to have, whereas economy is less of an immediate issue for
> me (even moreso with rumours of further complications regarding taxation for
> in-world purchasing
> 
> http://15timez.blogspot.com/2009/02/sl-in-world-transactions-to-be-taxed.html)
> since I have no aspirations to be a banker or accountant. Having it as an
> optional extra would be great should my opinion be changed on this matter!
> J
>
>
>
> Groups for chat, groups for building – yes please! Completely understand
> others wanting & demanding economy and have no desire to dampen any efforts
> in that area, but if the two are unlinkable in your project then would very
> much like to see some alternative projects in development. I don't see
> particularly why basic groups like that would have to be a forge project
> either, rather than a core feature.
>
>
>
> Just my 2p.
>
>
>
> Chris / Strawberry
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [
> mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de]
> *On Behalf Of *Michael Huntington
> *Sent:* 13 February 2009 20:55
> *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>
>
>
> Well, I don't mind sharing a little info.. but remember we're still in
> planning stages and getting the feature list together. Also I personally
> don't have a problem having this project open during development. So I'll
> let Adam and the DeepThink team decide on that... I'll host any files if
> needed or we can use opensim's gforge. All, I'm doing is sponsoring this
> project.. because I know how much the community would like groups and other
> features up and running.
>
>
>
> Basically we're working on getting economy and groups running.. and
> hopefully if Diva accepts our offer, we can get groups working across the
> Hypergrid... (still working on that). DeepThink already has a list of
> features listed for how we can safely and securely implement groups and
> economy.
>
>
>
> Again, I'm not the most tech savvy person.. I'm just sponsoring this.. so
> Adam can share as much info as he likes.. once we come to a conclusion on
> what the exact features will be ... but so far it seems he understands what
> we're looking for in the project.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Frisby, Adam < 
> a...@deepthink.com.au> wrote:
>
> I think the consensus with Mike is to develop it on the forge, but I'll let
> him speak for me here since he's sponsoring it and I don't want to say
> anything  that may be wrong.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* 
> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
> [mailto:
> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Dahlia Trimble
> *Sent:* Friday, 13 February 2009 12:48 PM
>
>
> *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>
>
>
> Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all at once,
> unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group chat
> infrastructure and this could cause conflict unless it's developed in an
> open manner.
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey 
> <
> jjusti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Frisby, Adam wrote:
> > Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the
> public domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along
> with some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they
> are much-asked for).
>
> I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know
> what they are sooner rather than later, so that
> nobody wastes time with duplicate development.
>
> Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?
>
>
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: 
> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
> >> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike
> Huntington
> >> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
> >> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
> >>
> >> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
> >> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
> >> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop < 
> ruud.lath...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >

Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

[Mike Mazur]

Hello,

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Tommi Laukkanen
 wrote:
> If you decide to revert fixes the least you can do is to look into them in
> detail and run the unit tests to make sure that the revert does not make
> situation worse.
>
> This is also part of mutual respect between developers. Some of us are new
> in the project. Some of us are inexperienced. But all of us have intellect
> and feelings. Optimally if you find a problem which does not cause problems
> in the production it is best that the person in blame is given advice and
> gets to fix the issue himself.
>
> This is a large project and we should appreciate everyone who contributes.
> Motivation is a fragile thing and we should give our peers all the courtesy
> we can. Let us make the community more enjoyable to everyone.

First, let me apologize for any disrespect you feel, it's definitely
unintentional.

Second, I need to apologize for ignoring the NHibernate unit tests. My
testing script runs whatever is in .nant/local.include and
.nant/bamboo.build, and it appears OpenSim.Data.NHibernate.Tests.dll
is listed in neither of those. Once the NHibernate tests pass, they
should probably be included. Of course this is no excuse for not
looking for the NHibernate tests sooner.

Finally, you may notice in the commit message that the patch came from
another contributor attached to
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3080 who was having issues
with NHibernate on startup. I believe this qualifies as a problem in
production. The patch fixed that issue. Naturally, had I run the tests
like I should have, I would have noticed they fail, and left a comment
for the author of the patch accordingly.

Please don't regard this as a personal attack. In fact, the commit of
the patch was mainly in response to
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3080 rather than imposing
my fix to http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3122.

Thanks,
Mike
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Mike Huntington]

I shouldve made it clear that these will be split into different  
modules. So those that don't want economy won't have to use that module.


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 13, 2009, at 6:33 PM, "Chris Hart"   
wrote:


I can understand why groups and economy could be linked for various  
reasons, but I would personally prefer that sort of thing broken  
apart – just sharing on building via groups, sharing objects with gr 
oup, would all be really lovely to have, whereas economy is less of  
an immediate issue for me (even moreso with rumours of further compl 
ications regarding taxation for in-world purchasing http://15timez.blogspot.com/2009/02/sl-in-world-transactions-to-be-taxed.html 
) since I have no aspirations to be a banker or accountant. Having i 
t as an optional extra would be great should my opinion be changed o 
n this matter! J




Groups for chat, groups for building – yes please! Completely unders 
tand others wanting & demanding economy and have no desire to dampen 
 any efforts in that area, but if the two are unlinkable in your pro 
ject then would very much like to see some alternative projects in d 
evelopment. I don’t see particularly why basic groups like that woul 
d have to be a forge project either, rather than a core feature.




Just my 2p.



Chris / Strawberry



From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
] On Behalf Of Michael Huntington

Sent: 13 February 2009 20:55
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim



Well, I don't mind sharing a little info.. but remember we're still  
in planning stages and getting the feature list together. Also I  
personally don't have a problem having this project open during  
development. So I'll let Adam and the DeepThink team decide on  
that... I'll host any files if needed or we can use opensim's  
gforge. All, I'm doing is sponsoring this project.. because I know  
how much the community would like groups and other features up and  
running.




Basically we're working on getting economy and groups running.. and  
hopefully if Diva accepts our offer, we can get groups working  
across the Hypergrid... (still working on that). DeepThink already  
has a list of features listed for how we can safely and securely  
implement groups and economy.




Again, I'm not the most tech savvy person.. I'm just sponsoring  
this.. so Adam can share as much info as he likes.. once we come to  
a conclusion on what the exact features will be ... but so far it  
seems he understands what we're looking for in the project.




On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Frisby, Adam  
 wrote:


I think the consensus with Mike is to develop it on the forge, but  
I'll let him speak for me here since he's sponsoring it and I don't  
want to say anything  that may be wrong.




Regards,



Adam



From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
] On Behalf Of Dahlia Trimble

Sent: Friday, 13 February 2009 12:48 PM


To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim



Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all  
at once, unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group  
chat infrastructure and this could cause conflict unless it's  
developed in an open manner.


On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey > wrote:


Frisby, Adam wrote:
> Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for  
the public domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one  
soon, along with some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin  
any suprises, but they are much-asked for).


I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to  
know what they are sooner rather than later, so that

nobody wastes time with duplicate development.

Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?


>
> Adam
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike Huntington
>> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>>
>> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
>> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
>> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
>>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
>>> much implementation.
>>>
>>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
>>> like that?
>>>
>>> Ruud
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> 

Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Chris Hart]

I can understand why groups and economy could be linked for various
reasons, but I would personally prefer that sort of thing broken apart -
just sharing on building via groups, sharing objects with group, would
all be really lovely to have, whereas economy is less of an immediate
issue for me (even moreso with rumours of further complications
regarding taxation for in-world purchasing
http://15timez.blogspot.com/2009/02/sl-in-world-transactions-to-be-taxed
.html) since I have no aspirations to be a banker or accountant. Having
it as an optional extra would be great should my opinion be changed on
this matter! J

 

Groups for chat, groups for building - yes please! Completely understand
others wanting & demanding economy and have no desire to dampen any
efforts in that area, but if the two are unlinkable in your project then
would very much like to see some alternative projects in development. I
don't see particularly why basic groups like that would have to be a
forge project either, rather than a core feature.

 

Just my 2p.

 

Chris / Strawberry 

 

From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Michael
Huntington
Sent: 13 February 2009 20:55
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

 

Well, I don't mind sharing a little info.. but remember we're still in
planning stages and getting the feature list together. Also I personally
don't have a problem having this project open during development. So
I'll let Adam and the DeepThink team decide on that... I'll host any
files if needed or we can use opensim's gforge. All, I'm doing is
sponsoring this project.. because I know how much the community would
like groups and other features up and running. 

 

Basically we're working on getting economy and groups running.. and
hopefully if Diva accepts our offer, we can get groups working across
the Hypergrid... (still working on that). DeepThink already has a list
of features listed for how we can safely and securely implement groups
and economy.

 

Again, I'm not the most tech savvy person.. I'm just sponsoring this..
so Adam can share as much info as he likes.. once we come to a
conclusion on what the exact features will be ... but so far it seems he
understands what we're looking for in the project.

 

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Frisby, Adam 
wrote:

I think the consensus with Mike is to develop it on the forge, but I'll
let him speak for me here since he's sponsoring it and I don't want to
say anything  that may be wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Adam

 

From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Dahlia
Trimble
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2009 12:48 PM


To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

 

Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all at
once, unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group chat
infrastructure and this could cause conflict unless it's developed in an
open manner.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
 wrote:

Frisby, Adam wrote:
> Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the
public domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon,
along with some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any
suprises, but they are much-asked for).

I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know
what they are sooner rather than later, so that
nobody wastes time with duplicate development.

Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?


>
> Adam
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike Huntington
>> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>>
>> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
>> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
>> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
>>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
>>> much implementation.
>>>
>>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
>>> like that?
>>>
>>> Ruud
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> ___
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> ___
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>

Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Frisby, Adam]

My personal thoughts would be definitely host on the gforge until completion, 
then decide on whether it goes into core or not (same as hypergrid).

Regards,

Adam

From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Michael Huntington
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2009 12:55 PM
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

Well, I don't mind sharing a little info.. but remember we're still in planning 
stages and getting the feature list together. Also I personally don't have a 
problem having this project open during development. So I'll let Adam and the 
DeepThink team decide on that... I'll host any files if needed or we can use 
opensim's gforge. All, I'm doing is sponsoring this project.. because I know 
how much the community would like groups and other features up and running.

Basically we're working on getting economy and groups running.. and hopefully 
if Diva accepts our offer, we can get groups working across the Hypergrid... 
(still working on that). DeepThink already has a list of features listed for 
how we can safely and securely implement groups and economy.

Again, I'm not the most tech savvy person.. I'm just sponsoring this.. so Adam 
can share as much info as he likes.. once we come to a conclusion on what the 
exact features will be ... but so far it seems he understands what we're 
looking for in the project.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Frisby, Adam 
mailto:a...@deepthink.com.au>> wrote:

I think the consensus with Mike is to develop it on the forge, but I'll let him 
speak for me here since he's sponsoring it and I don't want to say anything  
that may be wrong.



Regards,



Adam



From: 
opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
 
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de]
 On Behalf Of Dahlia Trimble
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2009 12:48 PM

To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim



Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all at once, 
unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group chat infrastructure 
and this could cause conflict unless it's developed in an open manner.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey 
mailto:jjusti...@googlemail.com>> wrote:

Frisby, Adam wrote:
> Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the public 
> domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along with 
> some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they are 
> much-asked for).

I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know what 
they are sooner rather than later, so that
nobody wastes time with duplicate development.

Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?

>
> Adam
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 
>> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>>  [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike 
>> Huntington
>> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>>
>> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
>> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
>> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
>> mailto:ruud.lath...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
>>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
>>> much implementation.
>>>
>>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
>>> like that?
>>>
>>> Ruud
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> ___
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> ___
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>

--
justincc
Justin Clark-Casey
http://justincc.wordpress.com

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Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
h

Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Michael Huntington]

Well, I don't mind sharing a little info.. but remember we're still in
planning stages and getting the feature list together. Also I personally
don't have a problem having this project open during development. So I'll
let Adam and the DeepThink team decide on that... I'll host any files if
needed or we can use opensim's gforge. All, I'm doing is sponsoring this
project.. because I know how much the community would like groups and other
features up and running.
Basically we're working on getting economy and groups running.. and
hopefully if Diva accepts our offer, we can get groups working across the
Hypergrid... (still working on that). DeepThink already has a list of
features listed for how we can safely and securely implement groups and
economy.

Again, I'm not the most tech savvy person.. I'm just sponsoring this.. so
Adam can share as much info as he likes.. once we come to a conclusion on
what the exact features will be ... but so far it seems he understands what
we're looking for in the project.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Frisby, Adam  wrote:

>  I think the consensus with Mike is to develop it on the forge, but I'll
> let him speak for me here since he's sponsoring it and I don't want to say
> anything  that may be wrong.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:
> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Dahlia Trimble
> *Sent:* Friday, 13 February 2009 12:48 PM
>
> *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>
>
>
> Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all at once,
> unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group chat
> infrastructure and this could cause conflict unless it's developed in an
> open manner.
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <
> jjusti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Frisby, Adam wrote:
> > Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the
> public domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along
> with some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they
> are much-asked for).
>
> I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know
> what they are sooner rather than later, so that
> nobody wastes time with duplicate development.
>
> Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?
>
>
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
> >> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike Huntington
> >> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
> >> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
> >>
> >> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
> >> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
> >> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
> >>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
> >>> much implementation.
> >>>
> >>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
> >>> like that?
> >>>
> >>> Ruud
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >> ___
> >> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > ___
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> > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
>
>   --
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> http://justincc.wordpress.com
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] [Opensim-users] User Server issues with 8236

[Stefan Andersson]

Guys,

 

we (Tribal) have seen this behaviour since a couple of months back; our 
hypthesis is that there's something wrong with the mono-addins lib, possibly in 
conjunction with old dlls.

 

The symptom is that the database modules just don't load, and with no error, 
and since the db logic is a foreach(plugin) over an empty plugin set, nothing 
happens.


Usually, a clean checkout, rebuild and copying over only of data files will 
remedy the whole thing.

 

Make sure not to copy over into an old directory - a total wipe and rebuild is 
necessary.

 
Best regards,
Stefan Andersson
Tribal Media AB



 
> From: lordofpleas...@pleasureplanet.net
> To: opensim-us...@lists.berlios.de
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:18:59 -0800
> Subject: [Opensim-users] User Server issues with 8236
> 
> 
> I tried a full build letting the OS regenerate the XML and I did a copy 
> paste with the xml files. No good either way. It seems to just not be 
> executing the connection to the Mysql database.
> Here's what I get when I run the 8236 user server
> 
> 10:07:04 - Launching UserServer...
> 10:07:04 - [STARTUP]: Beginning startup processing
> 10:07:04 - [STARTUP]: Version: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.2.8236
> 10:07:04 - [STARTUP]: Establishing data connection
> 10:07:04 - [PLUGINS]: Initializing addin manager
> 10:07:06 - [PLUGINS]: Loading extension point /OpenSim/UserData
> 10:07:06 - [GridInfoService]: Grid info service initialized with 11 keys
> 10:07:06 - [LIBRARY INVENTORY]: Loading library control file 
> .\inventory\Librari
> es.xml
> 10:07:06 - [STARTUP]: Starting HTTP process
> 10:07:06 - [GRID]: Login Level set to 0
> 10:07:06 - [HTTPD]: Starting up HTTP Server
> 10:07:06 - [HTTPD]: Spawned main thread OK
> 10:07:06 - [STARTUP]: Startup took 0m 1s
> Enter help for a list of commands
> 
> User# :
> 
> Here's what I get when I run the 8131 User Server
> 
> 10:08:54 - Launching UserServer...
> 10:08:54 - [STARTUP]: Beginning startup processing
> 10:08:54 - [STARTUP]: Version: OpenSimulator Server 0.6.2.8131
> 10:08:54 - [STARTUP]: Establishing data connection
> 10:08:54 - [PLUGINS]: Initializing addin manager
> 10:08:57 - [PLUGINS]: Loading extension point /OpenSim/UserData
> 10:08:57 - [PLUGINS]: Trying plugin /OpenSim/UserData/NHibernateUserData
> 10:08:57 - [PLUGINS]: Trying plugin /OpenSim/UserData/SQLiteUserData
> 10:08:57 - [PLUGINS]: Trying plugin /OpenSim/UserData/MySQLUserData
> 10:08:57 - [PLUGINS]: Plugin Loaded: OpenSim.Data.MySQL
> 10:08:57 - [PLUGINS]: Trying plugin /OpenSim/UserData/MSSQLUserData
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Creating 10 DB connections...
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [0]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [1]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [2]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [3]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [4]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [5]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [6]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [7]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [8]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - Connecting to DB... [9]:
> 10:08:58 - [MYSQL]: Connection established
> 10:08:58 - [REGION DB]: Connection wait timeout 28860 seconds
> 10:08:58 - [MIGRATIONS]: UserStore up to date, no migrations to apply
> 10:08:58 - [GridInfoService]: Grid info service initialized with 11 keys
> 10:08:58 - [LIBRARY INVENTORY]: Loading library control file 
> .\inventory\Librari
> es.xml
> 10:08:58 - [STARTUP]: Starting HTTP process
> 10:08:58 - [GRID]: Login Level set to 0
> 10:08:58 - [HTTPD]: Starting up HTTP Server
> 10:08:58 - [HTTPD]: Spawned main thread OK
> 10:08:58 - [STARTUP]: Startup took 0m 4s
> Enter help for a list of commands
> 
> 
> For some reason it seems the MySql connection just isn't being called.
> Here's the .xml for the user server.
> 
> 
>  default_grid_server="http://64.150.177.108:8001/"; grid_send_key="1234" 
> grid_recv_key="1234" default_inventory_server="http://64.150.177.108:8004/"; 
> library_location=".\inventory\Libraries.xml" 
> datab

Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Frisby, Adam]

I think the consensus with Mike is to develop it on the forge, but I'll let him 
speak for me here since he's sponsoring it and I don't want to say anything  
that may be wrong.

Regards,

Adam

From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Dahlia Trimble
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2009 12:48 PM
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all at once, 
unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group chat infrastructure 
and this could cause conflict unless it's developed in an open manner.
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey 
mailto:jjusti...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
Frisby, Adam wrote:
> Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the public 
> domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along with 
> some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they are 
> much-asked for).
I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know what 
they are sooner rather than later, so that
nobody wastes time with duplicate development.

Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?

>
> Adam
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 
>> opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
>>  [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike 
>> Huntington
>> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>>
>> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
>> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
>> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
>> mailto:ruud.lath...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
>>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
>>> much implementation.
>>>
>>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
>>> like that?
>>>
>>> Ruud
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> ___
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> ___
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization

[Stefan Andersson]

 

> I do agree with you. I think that the important thing here is that the patch 
> creator and applier both think carefully 
> about the situation when private members are being made protected.


Of course.

 
> One advantage of private members is that they tend to make debugging and 
> reasoning about code considerably easier. For 
> instance, if I know no other code can call a particular method because it is 
> private, then that means I don't need to 
> hunt down references or reason about possible interactions between different 
> callers. However, these arguments are 
> stronger, I think, when fields are public rather than protected (I have spent 
> too much time trying to unpick 
> interactions with Scene where callers were directly manipulating public 
> fields where this was not desirable or necessary).


You make a very good point; I actually was going to write that for example 
functions that are extracted to add semantic information normally should be 
kept private (and does not really need to be separately tested) since they are 
conceptually still a part of another context; then again, if any derived code 
would see fit to use those methods, I would have a hard time accepting a 'no'.

 

And regarding 'public', one of my pet decoupling strategies is just to turn 
stuff that is public to protected and see what breaks, then have a really hard 
think about why the 'breakee' needs public access. Another one is to 
encapsulate a public field in a getter-only property and see what breaks.

 

Those two excercises can be very enlightening.

> > If I have recieved no strong objections, 
> > I will add this to the code conventions by friday 20/2 2009.
> 
> Well, you know, I was just idly agreeing with you :) But it would be good to 
> have such things in the code conventions.


Yeah, I'm just jumping at the occasion. ;-D

 

Btw, I suggested a 'commit recipe' a while ago, I think I'll add that as well.

 

/Stefan

 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Dahlia Trimble]

Agreed... something like groups is too complex to be submitted all at once,
unless it's a module in forge. I've been working on group chat
infrastructure and this could cause conflict unless it's developed in an
open manner.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <
jjusti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Frisby, Adam wrote:
> > Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the
> public domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along
> with some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they
> are much-asked for).
>
> I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know
> what they are sooner rather than later, so that
> nobody wastes time with duplicate development.
>
> Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?
>
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
> >> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike Huntington
> >> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
> >> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
> >>
> >> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
> >> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
> >> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
> >>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
> >>> much implementation.
> >>>
> >>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
> >>> like that?
> >>>
> >>> Ruud
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >> ___
> >> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > ___
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
>
>
> --
> justincc
> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.wordpress.com
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Frisby, Adam wrote:
> Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the public 
> domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along with 
> some other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they are 
> much-asked for).

I don't like to see surprises spoilt either but it would be nice to know what 
they are sooner rather than later, so that 
nobody wastes time with duplicate development.

Will the development happen in the open commit by commit?

> 
> Adam
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike Huntington
>> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>>
>> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
>> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
>> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
>>> Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
>>> much implementation.
>>>
>>> If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
>>> like that?
>>>
>>> Ruud
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> ___
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> ___
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> 


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Re: [Opensim-dev] Mesh to primitive converter

[Frisby, Adam]

Just an FYI - this will annihilate your framerate.

Consider - the SL box mesh contorted is a minimum of 6 polies (actually in 
reality it's in the hundreds because of the extra points for lighting). That 
means your scene polycount is at minimum *6 for people viewing the converted 
version. May be fine for small numbers, but for large numbers I'd really just 
stick to in-viewer meshes.

Adam

From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of nlin
Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 11:57 PM
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Mesh to primitive converter

I'm not sure if this is the tool you're referring to, but something similar is 
illustrated by this LSL script: 
http://www.lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=LibraryPolygonFormer. (Example 
screenshot 
http://www.sipuli.net/~joonas/Uploadit/Muut/modelrezzer_snapshot4JPG.JPG)

-nlin
2009/2/13 Dahlia Trimble 
mailto:dahliatrim...@gmail.com>>
I've heard of a tool that once existed that could recreate a tri-mesh (all 
polygons are in the form of triangles) object and reproduce it in SL with 
triangular shaped prims. I think it was a combination of a blender script and a 
LSL script. The problem with such an approach is the relatively high cost of 
prims in SL. I cant remember the name of the tool but I suspect some careful 
googling and/or searching the SL forums might get you there.

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Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim

[Frisby, Adam]

Yep, Mike here has graciously offered to have us develop it for the public 
domain. With a little luck we should be starting this one soon, along with some 
other features he's asked for (I won't ruin any suprises, but they are 
much-asked for).

Adam

> -Original Message-
> From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
> boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mike Huntington
> Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2009 9:11 AM
> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Groups in OpenSim
>
> I'm currently in talks with DeepThink to have this developed for my
> grid. The work will be donated back to the opensim community once
> finished.  Hopefully work on this will begin later this month.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 12, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Ruud Lathrop 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Does anybody know if somebody is working on features to implement
> > Groups? I see a GroupsModule in Core.Avatar. But that doesn't hold
> > much implementation.
> >
> > If nobody is building that, how can I start working on something
> > like that?
> >
> > Ruud
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Let us assume the best of each other and see what mikem has to say about this 
first.

We should look to resolve any issues like this amicably.


Tommi Laukkanen wrote:
> Here is the mantis in question: 
> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3122
>  
> regards,
> Tommi
> 
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Dahlia Trimble  > wrote:
> 
> Is there a specific commit or mantis which this is addressing? I'm
> not aware of which events your message applies to, but I can say in
> general that I've only seen a code revert when the original changes
>  cripple functionality for other users or imposes a needless barrier
> on further development, and then the revert only happens after
> consultation with others had occurred.
> 
> This is also a fast moving project with many modifications made to
> the source tree from many authors. Usually if a revert is required
> it needs to happen quickly otherwise it becomes increasingly
> difficult to restore the code back to a condition where it would be
> had the changes not been applied. If the author of the changes had
> not been available at the time of the decision to revert then notes
> are added to the mantis containing the patches explaining the
> situation to the author.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Tommi Laukkanen
>  > wrote:
> 
> Dear all
> 
> If you decide to revert fixes the least you can do is to look
> into them in detail and run the unit tests to make sure that the
> revert does not make situation worse.
>  
> This is also part of mutual respect between developers. Some of
> us are new in the project. Some of us are inexperienced. But all
> of us have intellect and feelings. Optimally if you find a
> problem which does not cause problems in the production it is
> best that the person in blame is given advice and gets to fix
> the issue himself.
>  
> This is a large project and we should appreciate everyone who
> contributes. Motivation is a fragile thing and we should give
> our peers all the courtesy we can. Let us make the community
> more enjoyable to everyone.
>  
> sincerely,
> Tommi
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Mesh to primitive converter

[Tommi Laukkanen]

How about adding prim type mesh? I understand we need custom viewer but how
long can we stay in SL leash?

regards,
Tommi
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

[Tommi Laukkanen]

Here is the mantis in question:
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3122

regards,
Tommi

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Dahlia Trimble wrote:

> Is there a specific commit or mantis which this is addressing? I'm not
> aware of which events your message applies to, but I can say in general that
> I've only seen a code revert when the original changes  cripple
> functionality for other users or imposes a needless barrier on further
> development, and then the revert only happens after consultation with others
> had occurred.
> This is also a fast moving project with many modifications made to the
> source tree from many authors. Usually if a revert is required it needs to
> happen quickly otherwise it becomes increasingly difficult to restore the
> code back to a condition where it would be had the changes not been applied.
> If the author of the changes had not been available at the time of the
> decision to revert then notes are added to the mantis containing the patches
> explaining the situation to the author.
>
>   On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Tommi Laukkanen <
> tommi.s.e.laukka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>   Dear all
>> If you decide to revert fixes the least you can do is to look into them in
>> detail and run the unit tests to make sure that the revert does not make
>> situation worse.
>>
>> This is also part of mutual respect between developers. Some of us are new
>> in the project. Some of us are inexperienced. But all of us have intellect
>> and feelings. Optimally if you find a problem which does not cause problems
>> in the production it is best that the person in blame is given advice and
>> gets to fix the issue himself.
>>
>> This is a large project and we should appreciate everyone who contributes.
>> Motivation is a fragile thing and we should give our peers all the courtesy
>> we can. Let us make the community more enjoyable to everyone.
>>
>> sincerely,
>> Tommi
>>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

[Dahlia Trimble]

Is there a specific commit or mantis which this is addressing? I'm not aware
of which events your message applies to, but I can say in general that I've
only seen a code revert when the original changes  cripple functionality for
other users or imposes a needless barrier on further development, and then
the revert only happens after consultation with others had occurred.
This is also a fast moving project with many modifications made to the
source tree from many authors. Usually if a revert is required it needs to
happen quickly otherwise it becomes increasingly difficult to restore the
code back to a condition where it would be had the changes not been applied.
If the author of the changes had not been available at the time of the
decision to revert then notes are added to the mantis containing the patches
explaining the situation to the author.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Tommi Laukkanen <
tommi.s.e.laukka...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all
> If you decide to revert fixes the least you can do is to look into them in
> detail and run the unit tests to make sure that the revert does not make
> situation worse.
>
> This is also part of mutual respect between developers. Some of us are new
> in the project. Some of us are inexperienced. But all of us have intellect
> and feelings. Optimally if you find a problem which does not cause problems
> in the production it is best that the person in blame is given advice and
> gets to fix the issue himself.
>
> This is a large project and we should appreciate everyone who contributes.
> Motivation is a fragile thing and we should give our peers all the courtesy
> we can. Let us make the community more enjoyable to everyone.
>
> sincerely,
> Tommi
>
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Stefan Andersson wrote:
>  
>  > > 2) Going from 'private' to 'protected' because of the need to
>  > > subclass in a particular proprietary application should never be a
>  > > problem. This strenghtens the API.
>  >
>  > This is not always the case. See 
> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3072. Sometimes there are 
> good reasons
>  > for keeping methods private.
> 
> I think that discussion has to be separated; I don't know the reason for 
> those members to be kept private (other than that the plugin 'wasn't 
> intended to be subclassed' which is fair enough) but I can say that 
> generally the only reason to hesitate over going from 'private' to 
> 'protected' is if code is written so that state integrity is pivotal for 
> method execution - something that usually points to the code being 
> brittle in the first place. (Compare with calling virtual members from 
> constructors for a similar concern)
>  
> I am perfectly aware that this is touching on religion so I won't push 
> the issue further; suffice to say that "in most cases" we should not 
> have a problem with it.

I do agree with you.  I think that the important thing here is that the patch 
creator and applier both think carefully 
about the situation when private members are being made protected.

One advantage of private members is that they tend to make debugging and 
reasoning about code considerably easier.  For 
instance, if I know no other code can call a particular method because it is 
private, then that means I don't need to 
hunt down references or reason about possible interactions between different 
callers.  However, these arguments are 
stronger, I think, when fields are public rather than protected (I have spent 
too much time trying to unpick 
interactions with Scene where callers were directly manipulating public fields 
where this was not desirable or necessary).

>  
> For the interested, I suggest you google for religious flame wars on the 
> proper use of "internal" and "sealed" as well. ;-)
>  
> By the way, I take your +1's as meaning we're discussing this in order 
> to form an explicit concensus - if I have recieved no strong objections, 
> I will add this to the code conventions by friday 20/2 2009.

Well, you know, I was just idly agreeing with you :)  But it would be good to 
have such things in the code conventions.

>  
> Best Regards,
> /Stefan
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization

[Diva Canto]

+1 on everything Stefan said.
Subclassing is always your friend.


Stefan Andersson wrote:
 
> > 2) Going from 'private' to 'protected' because of the need to

> > subclass in a particular proprietary application should never be a
> > problem. This strenghtens the API.
>
> This is not always the case. See 
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3072. Sometimes there are 
good reasons

> for keeping methods private.

I think that discussion has to be separated; I don't know the reason 
for those members to be kept private (other than that the plugin 
'wasn't intended to be subclassed' which is fair enough) but I can say 
that generally the only reason to hesitate over going from 'private' 
to 'protected' is if code is written so that state integrity is 
pivotal for method execution - something that usually points to the 
code being brittle in the first place. (Compare with calling virtual 
members from constructors for a similar concern)
 
I am perfectly aware that this is touching on religion so I won't push 
the issue further; suffice to say that "in most cases" we should not 
have a problem with it.
 
For the interested, I suggest you google for religious flame wars on 
the proper use of "internal" and "sealed" as well. ;-)
 
By the way, I take your +1's as meaning we're discussing this in order 
to form an explicit concensus - if I have recieved no strong 
objections, I will add this to the code conventions by friday 20/2 2009.
 
Best Regards,

/Stefan
 



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Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization

[Stefan Andersson]

 

> > 2) Going from 'private' to 'protected' because of the need to 
> > subclass in a particular proprietary application should never be a 
> > problem. This strenghtens the API.
> 
> This is not always the case. See 
> http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3072. Sometimes there are good 
> reasons 
> for keeping methods private.


I think that discussion has to be separated; I don't know the reason for those 
members to be kept private (other than that the plugin 'wasn't intended to be 
subclassed' which is fair enough) but I can say that generally the only reason 
to hesitate over going from 'private' to 'protected' is if code is written so 
that state integrity is pivotal for method execution - something that usually 
points to the code being brittle in the first place. (Compare with calling 
virtual members from constructors for a similar concern)

 

I am perfectly aware that this is touching on religion so I won't push the 
issue further; suffice to say that "in most cases" we should not have a problem 
with it.

 

For the interested, I suggest you google for religious flame wars on the proper 
use of "internal" and "sealed" as well. ;-)

 

By the way, I take your +1's as meaning we're discussing this in order to form 
an explicit concensus - if I have recieved no strong objections, I will add 
this to the code conventions by friday 20/2 2009.

 

Best Regards,

/Stefan

 
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[Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

[Tommi Laukkanen]

Dear all
If you decide to revert fixes the least you can do is to look into them in
detail and run the unit tests to make sure that the revert does not make
situation worse.

This is also part of mutual respect between developers. Some of us are new
in the project. Some of us are inexperienced. But all of us have intellect
and feelings. Optimally if you find a problem which does not cause problems
in the production it is best that the person in blame is given advice and
gets to fix the issue himself.

This is a large project and we should appreciate everyone who contributes.
Motivation is a fragile thing and we should give our peers all the courtesy
we can. Let us make the community more enjoyable to everyone.

sincerely,
Tommi
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Re: [Opensim-dev] Mesh to primitive converter

[Mircea Kitsune]

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind. I didn't know such a converter already 
existed when I started this topic though... I was thinking of it as an addon 
for Opensim where the user could go to the console, type the name of the model 
in a command line and have the region calculate the polys and faces, creating a 
linkset of boxes positioned accordingly.

If such a script already exists maybe it could be made into an Opensim module 
someday, if its author would allow and it would be a useful feature to have. 
Just random thoughts... the initial idea I had for some time was seeing 
mesh-detailed objects and meshes in the classic Opensim / SL and with the LL 
viewer, which I thought would be a great possibility after visiting ReX.

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:57:25 +0900
From: nlin.mess...@gmail.com
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Mesh to primitive converter

I'm not sure if this is the tool you're referring to, but something similar is 
illustrated by this LSL script: 
http://www.lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=LibraryPolygonFormer. (Example 
screenshot 
http://www.sipuli.net/~joonas/Uploadit/Muut/modelrezzer_snapshot4JPG.JPG)


-nlin

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Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization

[Justin Clark-Casey]

Stefan Andersson wrote:
>  > Resizing the terseupdate packet size is going to be placed in to 
> ModRex at least, that's why in the patch SendAvatarTerseUpdate method is 
> marked as virtual.
> 
>  
> Just a very quick short one; (yeah right)
>  
> Not talking about this patch in particular, just realized there's 
> something that app devs probably should be made aware of:
> 
> In OpenSim, there's been an implicit understanding (that we should 
> probably discuss and make explicit) that;
>  
> 1) Marking stuff as 'virtual' because of the need to subclass in a 
> particular proprietary application should never be a problem. This 
> strenghtens the API.

+1

>  
> 2) Going from 'private' to 'protected' because of the need to 
> subclass in a particular proprietary application should never be a 
> problem. This strenghtens the API.

This is not always the case.  See 
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3072.  Sometimes there are good 
reasons 
for keeping methods private.

>  
> 3) Introducing extra layers of indirection because of the need to 
> re-direct control flow in a particular proprietary application should 
> never be a problem. This strenghtens the API.

+1

>  
> 4) Introducing stuff directly into core that is not used by core because 
> a particular proprietary feature demands it, will always be a 
> problem. Instead, do 1) or 2) or 3).

+1

>  
> 5) Going from 'protected' to 'public' because a particular proprietary 
> feature demands it, will always be a problem. Instead, do 1) or 2) or 3).

+1

In other words, I broadly agree.  I would also add that none our APIs can be 
regarded as 'stable' until we near 1.0 - 
everything is subject to change.  Indeed, I would say that at the moment 
virtually all of our APIs are 'accidental' APIs 
in that they were originally formulated for internal use.  Therefore, they are 
often not well documented or thought 
through in terms of their functionality and usability for non-core code.

> 
> Best regards,
> Stefan Andersson
> Tribal Media AB
> 
>  > From: mikko.pall...@adminotech.com
>  > To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>  > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:26:26 +0100
>  > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization
>  >
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > Yes, 'dramatic' as in positive.
>  >
>  > The changes introduced in the patch work for LL clients also and 
> propably for OpenMetaverse clients too, but I haven't tested this patch 
> with them.
>  >
>  > Resizing the terseupdate packet size is going to be placed in to 
> ModRex at least, that's why in the patch SendAvatarTerseUpdate method is 
> marked as virtual.
>  >
>  > Sean Dague wrote:
>  > > Very cool to see this patch. There is some feedback in the mantis 
> tracker about adjusting the way types are used. It would be great if you 
> could respin the patch based on that so we could get this in.
>  >
>  > Already done.
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  > Mikko
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Dirk Krause
>  > Sent: 12. helmikuuta 2009 13:36
>  > To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>  > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization
>  >
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > - dramatic in terms of 'positive'?
>  > - to take advantage of the client side changes one would need to 
> change the viewer source (or take the Rex Viewer) then?
>  > I also take it that OpenMetaverse based viewers (like IdealistViewer) 
> would need a patch for OpenMetaverse?
>  >
>  >
>  > even with the 'server only' optimization, it still is a great 
> contribution. Should be tested though, and I wonder what would be a 
> smart way to do this.
>  >
>  > Best,
>  > Dirk/Bart
>  >
>  > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>  > Von: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] Im Auftrag von Mikko Pallari
>  > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Februar 2009 12:16
>  > An: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>  > Betreff: Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization
>  >
>  > That optimization did this and also reduced the terseupdate packet 
> size. That needed changes to protocol, and because we can't change the 
> protocol with Linded client, the effect won't be so dramatic here.
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  > Mikko
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de 
> [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Jeroen van Veen
>  > Sent: 12. helmikuuta 2009 11:15
>  > To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
>  > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Avatar movement packet optimization
>  >
>  > i saw that robotdemo a while ago at 
> http://community.rexdeveloper.org/. It's
>  > the same optimization? That was really some impressive cool stuff. 
> keep up the
>  > good work!
>  >
>  > Jeroen
>  >
>  > On Wednesday 11 February 2009 18:59:19 Tommi Laukkanen wrote:
>  > > Nice!
>  > >
>  > > We need more work like this.
>  > >
>  > > Tommi
>  > >
>  > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1

Re: [Opensim-dev] Need a debugging tip for Visual Studio C# 2008 Express

[Tedd Hansen]

http://teddmaa.blogspot.com/2008/12/opensim-in-visual-studio-on-win64.ht
ml
With more on
http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2008/08/running-opensim-under-a-64-bit-en
vironment/

I can also recommend the book "Debugging Microsoft .Net 2.0
Applications"
http://www.amazon.com/Debugging-Microsoft-NET-2-0-Applications/dp/073562
2027
contains lots of useful info.

-Original Message-
From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Peter Quirk
Sent: 12. februar 2009 20:24
To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
Subject: [Opensim-dev] Need a debugging tip for Visual Studio C# 2008
Express

I'm trying to debug the modrex code and having a problem with the Visual

Studio C# 2008 Express edition debugger that I can't work around. I was 
wondering if someone can point me in the right direction.

Before I start I should mention that Opensim + modrex executes more or
less 
correctly and I can login with the realXtend 0.4 browser with the 
rexmeshloader patch. I am running on a 64-bit Vista system.

When I start the opensim server in the debugger, the debugger halts at
the 
statement m_connection.Open() in SQLiteEstateData.cs:Initialise with a 
BadFormatException. "An attempt was made to load a program with an
incorrect 
format. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007000B)"

Needless to say, this error does not occur when not running in the
debugger.

TIA,

-- Peter 


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