Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] We aren't an Open Community, because we don't control our Trademark and Website. (And it's not Sun's fault).
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:40 PM, John Sonnenschein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Seriously now... even I think this is getting silly, and I'm young and > foolish. A couple dozen people forking O/N?come now... > > Al Hopper's right. The OGB was spineless, Sun was aggressive and > ignored the community. They'll do whatever they're going to do quite > aside from how we feel about it. It sucks. All we can do is add it to > our cynicism and continue to try to build the greatest OS in the > world, no matter what Sun decides to call it. Sorry, but I disagree. The OGB is not spineless. I do think they could be more assertive, but not in this particular case. You seem to confuse their ability to do something with a trademark that they have no control over with being spineless. The OGB can only take three actions as far as I know: * Make a statement expressing disagreement * Resign collectively causing the community to revert to Sun's caretaking * Attempt to get the community to move their resources and website elsewhere and establish a non-profit and new trademark, etc. The last two options would be a mistake in my view. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ "To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." - Robert Orben ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] We aren't an Open Community, because we don't control our Trademark and Website. (And it's not Sun's fault).
Hi John, See it as you will, but to accuse the OGB of being spineless is a bit... well unfounded and accusatory. FWIW, several OGB members were and continue to be vocally opposed to Sun's decision (myself being one of them), but when it boils down to it, it's Sun's decision for better or for worse. Even if the OGB were unanimously on the side of disagreement, there's still nothing it can do. Frankly, the OGB is pretty much powerless in this regard. We have the ability to govern the community within the rules and framework of the charter and constitution, but we do not have the ability to tell Sun what it can do with its trademarks. Given Sun's decision to strategically shift its view of what OpenSolaris is (note, strategic does not necessarily imply *good* strategy... modern United States military decisions are evidence of that, but I digress), it's questionable whether the "OpenSolaris Governing Board" should continue to exist. At best it reverts to its original role of the "Community Advisory Board". It seems like all we can do is advise Sun, and if Sun choose to ignore the advice, well so be it... cheers, steve John Sonnenschein wrote: > Seriously now... even I think this is getting silly, and I'm young and > foolish. A couple dozen people forking O/N?come now... > > Al Hopper's right. The OGB was spineless, Sun was aggressive and > ignored the community. They'll do whatever they're going to do quite > aside from how we feel about it. It sucks. All we can do is add it to > our cynicism and continue to try to build the greatest OS in the > world, no matter what Sun decides to call it. > > Ultimately it's about the code, not the name. > > > On 13-Feb-08, at 8:35 PM, Brian Gupta wrote: > >> It pains me that Sun is doing so many great moves in open source, and >> there are so many great people at Sun that "get it", yet Sun decided >> to force it's wishes on a captive community. I hope those of you that >> are working at Sun that are trying to change things, don't get >> discouraged. >> >> Based on Sun's recent decisions, it has become clear to me that Sun >> has exercised their right to break the illusion that OpenSolaris is a >> community run project. (It is rather, a "community influenced" >> project). I'm sure Sun's executives have discussed this, and have >> convinced themselves that this is "best for the community, and best >> for Sun". However, this does not change the fact that the OpenSolaris >> community (directly or indirectly through it's elected >> representational body the OGB) does not have control over it's own >> website or name. >> >> Complaining about it, no matter how many emails we post on list, >> won't change things. If we want to change things, it will take hard >> work. >> >> Stop complaining, and do something about it. Get organized. Lead or >> join a project to develop a new trademark w/ a supporting nonprofit >> foundation, that are controlled by the community. (If you care to DO >> something about it, feel free to contact me on or off list.) >> >> This requires work. It will require, web developers, sysadmins, etc. >> to build new website, and people willing to brainstorm in private >> about potential trademarks. (Obviously when we are talking about >> registering domains, we will need to do so in private.) >> >> We will need to build out our infrastructure so that we can host >> development, mailing-lists and etc.. Once that is done, we will need >> to make the case to start moving development to the new >> organization/infrstructure. This will mean that even Sun employees >> will have to chose to move their development work to a community >> "controlled" development infrastructure. (Let's cross this bridge >> when we come to it. I just list it because it is daunting). >> >> This is a project that would take time to implement, especially as a >> volunteer-only effort with no corporate sponsors. It's daunting and >> huge, and Sun is betting that there aren't enough people who care >> this project isn't really controlled by the community, (and are >> willing to do something about it.) >> >> I am willing to work towards making this happen, but I am not >> willing, or able, to do so alone. >> >> -- >> - Brian Gupta >> >> P.S. - It was in hindsight, probably a mistake to use a valuable Sun >> Trademark to name this community/website/project. Thankfully, Sun did >> not make the same mistake with Java. (OpenJDK). >> >> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/ >> >> http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/OpenSolaris_New_User_FAQ >> ___ >> ogb-discuss mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/ogb-discuss > > > > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org -- stephen lau | [EMAIL PROTECTE
Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] We aren't an Open Community, because we don't control our Trademark and Website. (And it's not Sun's fault).
Seriously now... even I think this is getting silly, and I'm young and foolish. A couple dozen people forking O/N?come now... Al Hopper's right. The OGB was spineless, Sun was aggressive and ignored the community. They'll do whatever they're going to do quite aside from how we feel about it. It sucks. All we can do is add it to our cynicism and continue to try to build the greatest OS in the world, no matter what Sun decides to call it. Ultimately it's about the code, not the name. On 13-Feb-08, at 8:35 PM, Brian Gupta wrote: It pains me that Sun is doing so many great moves in open source, and there are so many great people at Sun that "get it", yet Sun decided to force it's wishes on a captive community. I hope those of you that are working at Sun that are trying to change things, don't get discouraged. Based on Sun's recent decisions, it has become clear to me that Sun has exercised their right to break the illusion that OpenSolaris is a community run project. (It is rather, a "community influenced" project). I'm sure Sun's executives have discussed this, and have convinced themselves that this is "best for the community, and best for Sun". However, this does not change the fact that the OpenSolaris community (directly or indirectly through it's elected representational body the OGB) does not have control over it's own website or name. Complaining about it, no matter how many emails we post on list, won't change things. If we want to change things, it will take hard work. Stop complaining, and do something about it. Get organized. Lead or join a project to develop a new trademark w/ a supporting nonprofit foundation, that are controlled by the community. (If you care to DO something about it, feel free to contact me on or off list.) This requires work. It will require, web developers, sysadmins, etc. to build new website, and people willing to brainstorm in private about potential trademarks. (Obviously when we are talking about registering domains, we will need to do so in private.) We will need to build out our infrastructure so that we can host development, mailing-lists and etc.. Once that is done, we will need to make the case to start moving development to the new organization/ infrstructure. This will mean that even Sun employees will have to chose to move their development work to a community "controlled" development infrastructure. (Let's cross this bridge when we come to it. I just list it because it is daunting). This is a project that would take time to implement, especially as a volunteer-only effort with no corporate sponsors. It's daunting and huge, and Sun is betting that there aren't enough people who care this project isn't really controlled by the community, (and are willing to do something about it.) I am willing to work towards making this happen, but I am not willing, or able, to do so alone. -- - Brian Gupta P.S. - It was in hindsight, probably a mistake to use a valuable Sun Trademark to name this community/website/project. Thankfully, Sun did not make the same mistake with Java. (OpenJDK). http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/ http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/OpenSolaris_New_User_FAQ ___ ogb-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/ogb-discuss PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
