Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
It's still far safer not to have a premium account. You don't run a risk than when your premium subscription expires and your payment info is not up to date that your account will get suspended. You get locked out of you account, with a message call 1-xxx-xxx-. This was not very helpful for a friend of mine from Croatia who is deaf and could not use a phone. My attempt to mediate and help sort out issues failed because LL told me we do not disclose information about other people's accounts. Faced with a double wall like that, she just gave up on SL after being a premium member for over 3 years. Why LL doesn't simply downgrade accounts to basic instead of locking them out is beyond me. Because of this policy I recommend to my friends not to upgrade their accounts to premium, because they risk losing their accounts, and nobody would be able to help them if they themselves don't have the ability to communicate in English and over the phone. On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Yoz Grahame y...@lindenlab.com wrote: This *was* a serious bug, but fixed over a year ago. Now a premium account in default is merely suspended with the ability to fully restore on payment. On 28 August 2010 10:19, Gareth Nelson gar...@garethnelson.com wrote: That's a serious bug in LL's business model - your account is safer as a basic, since a premium account that quits paying means the account is deleted (rather than merely downgraded). On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Tigro Spottystripes tigrospottystri...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 btw, if you're considering changing your account from premium to basic, be sure to pay any money you own to LL and then downgrade your account thru the site, do not just stop paying, if you stop paying them while still being a premium they will wipe out all your account's data, inventory L$ balance etc (i've seen some people that had the misconception that to downgrade all you had to do was stop sending money to LL, the ones that didn't got set straight in time lost everything) On 28/8/2010 13:01, mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com wrote: I don’t think anyone disagrees with. The problem is you can’t get a homestead unless you have a full sim already and so you need to rent from someone and this puts you dependent on someone else which is frustrating for people. So to log in one day and see all your hard work returned to your lost and found isn’t a pleasant experience and seems SL if they are serious about the user experience would have some better ways to handle this. I don’t know if you rent from someone else if you can do a restore of your region to the new location. But seems like there are ways to make this better if not just let people rent homesteads which to me I believe would be a huge market. Anyway this whole subject is off topic for this mailing list and probably should be on the SL forums. M. *From:* opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel Foner *Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:49 AM *To:* Aleric Inglewood *Cc:* opensource-dev *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers... After being a paying customer for more than a year, renting a homestead, and thus paying Linden Lab ~ USD$ 1000 or so ... they just take the sim offline, with no opening to even discuss the matter. Why? Because of something I did? No. The reason is that Linden Lab isn't interested in the little people. Unless you have a FULL sim of USD$ 300 per month, you don't count. There is a simple answer for this. You are the customer of your landlord in this case, not Linden Lab. Yes, you have a Second Life account, but you are not renting your land from Linden Lab. You are renting your land from another avatar in Second Life. Linden Lab is not a party to your decision to rent... so why are they accountable if some other avatar bails out and decides to level their city block? If the landlord decided to stop renting, boot everyone off and re-terraform the region for some completely different use, would you think Linden Lab would have any responsibility for stopping that or somehow compensating you? It's the landlord's land, and they can do anything with it they choose to, including shut it down, leave, take it over from the renters, or shut it down and let no one else in at all. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (MingW32) Comment:
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
At least the land and inventory are not gone, automatically downgrading to basic would make the lands be abandoned... way to even more drama. To me the user should not even be locked out of the grid, but I understand that there are technical difficulties to making a premium be considered as basic until the funds are available again, and let's not forget that if you are premium and in this situation, then you do owe LL money. This is different than being simply basic. The only issue is that the user is ALSO locked out of their SL webpage. To me that makes no sense at all, because that's how they could access tickets and get some help, or downgrade to basic, or change credit card info (what if the original credit card has been stolen and the user blocked it ? That's not valid grounds to lock them out of SL and yet they can't change their credit card info through the SL webpage anymore). Locking them out of the SL website simply discourages them from even trying to sort things out, and LL loses money in the process. On 29 August 2010 11:09, Latif Khalifa lati...@streamgrid.net wrote: It's still far safer not to have a premium account. You don't run a risk than when your premium subscription expires and your payment info is not up to date that your account will get suspended. You get locked out of you account, with a message call 1-xxx-xxx-. This was not very helpful for a friend of mine from Croatia who is deaf and could not use a phone. My attempt to mediate and help sort out issues failed because LL told me we do not disclose information about other people's accounts. Faced with a double wall like that, she just gave up on SL after being a premium member for over 3 years. Why LL doesn't simply downgrade accounts to basic instead of locking them out is beyond me. Because of this policy I recommend to my friends not to upgrade their accounts to premium, because they risk losing their accounts, and nobody would be able to help them if they themselves don't have the ability to communicate in English and over the phone. On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Yoz Grahame y...@lindenlab.com wrote: This *was* a serious bug, but fixed over a year ago. Now a premium account in default is merely suspended with the ability to fully restore on payment. On 28 August 2010 10:19, Gareth Nelson gar...@garethnelson.com wrote: That's a serious bug in LL's business model - your account is safer as a basic, since a premium account that quits paying means the account is deleted (rather than merely downgraded). On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Tigro Spottystripes tigrospottystri...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 btw, if you're considering changing your account from premium to basic, be sure to pay any money you own to LL and then downgrade your account thru the site, do not just stop paying, if you stop paying them while still being a premium they will wipe out all your account's data, inventory L$ balance etc (i've seen some people that had the misconception that to downgrade all you had to do was stop sending money to LL, the ones that didn't got set straight in time lost everything) On 28/8/2010 13:01, mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com wrote: I don’t think anyone disagrees with. The problem is you can’t get a homestead unless you have a full sim already and so you need to rent from someone and this puts you dependent on someone else which is frustrating for people. So to log in one day and see all your hard work returned to your lost and found isn’t a pleasant experience and seems SL if they are serious about the user experience would have some better ways to handle this. I don’t know if you rent from someone else if you can do a restore of your region to the new location. But seems like there are ways to make this better if not just let people rent homesteads which to me I believe would be a huge market. Anyway this whole subject is off topic for this mailing list and probably should be on the SL forums. M. *From:* opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel Foner *Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:49 AM *To:* Aleric Inglewood *Cc:* opensource-dev *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers... After being a paying customer for more than a year, renting a homestead, and thus paying Linden Lab ~ USD$ 1000 or so ... they just take the sim offline, with no opening to even discuss the matter. Why? Because of something I did? No. The reason is that Linden Lab isn't interested in the little people. Unless you have a FULL sim of USD$ 300 per month, you
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: The only issue is that the user is ALSO locked out of their SL webpage. To me that makes no sense at all, because that's how they could access tickets and get some help, or downgrade to basic, or change credit card info (what if the original credit card has been stolen and the user blocked it ? That's not valid grounds to lock them out of SL and yet they can't change their credit card info through the SL webpage anymore). Locking them out of the SL website simply discourages them from even trying to sort things out, and LL loses money in the process. Yes, you are right. Having the web site accessible would solve the problem. In case of my fiend it was particularly cruel because she was asked to make a phone call which she was incapable of doing because of her disability (and even if she was able to speak, she doesn't understand any English). And I was told that I cannot call in her behalf, she'd have to call herself. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On 2010-08-28, at 23:08, Yoz Grahame wrote: This *was* a serious bug, but fixed over a year ago. Now a premium account in default is merely suspended with the ability to fully restore on payment. A premium account that does not own any land (beyond the basic 512 square meters) should not be suspended, because payment for the account itself is not made in arrears and it is not in default. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
re-opened. On 2010-08-28, at 23:31, Yoz Grahame wrote: On 28 August 2010 21:25, Tigro Spottystripes tigrospottystri...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Please read http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2647 Thanks! Resolved. -- Yoz ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges Welcome back, Anonymous, we're glad to see you again! ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On 2010-08-29, at 04:24, Marine Kelley wrote: At least the land and inventory are not gone, automatically downgrading to basic would make the lands be abandoned. What if the account doesn't own land, or has nothing but the original 512 square meters in something like a Linden Home? That's the majority case. An account in that situation is not *in default* when they skip a payment, because the account payment itself is not made in arrears. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On 2010-08-29, at 04:41, Marc Adored wrote: If you check your email less then 1 time every 37 days I don't even know why you have a premium account on a game you obviously don't play enough to get your monies worth. There are people who have jobs that take them out of communication for months... consider members of the military. If you pay annually, it's 6 dollars a month. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
Argent Stonecutter a écrit : What if the account doesn't own land, or has nothing but the original 512 square meters in something like a Linden Home? That's the majority case. An account in that situation is not*in default* when they skip a payment, because the account payment itself is not made in arrears. I used to have a premium account once upon a while. Not using it really (no land associated to the account) and being short of money, I didn't renew. The only thing that happened is that I'm back as a basic member now. So I don't see where is the problem :) ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Argent Stonecutter secret.arg...@gmail.com wrote: What if the account doesn't own land, or has nothing but the original 512 square meters in something like a Linden Home? That's the majority case. An account in that situation is not *in default* when they skip a payment, because the account payment itself is not made in arrears. So you're saying a person that doesn't pay their membership fees should be able to log in and use their 512 square meters of land as if nothing was wrong? How long should this persist before they are considered in arrears? A week, a month, a year? Membership fees are paid in advanced, if you don't pay than you can't use the service (512m^2). If you don't own land you should be downgraded to basic. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On 2010-08-28 8:50, Aleric Inglewood wrote: I know this is off topic, so I'll keep it as short as possible. What happened was wrong, and regrettable, but it's very much off topic for this list. Please take it elsewhere. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On 2010-08-29, at 09:37, Laurent Bechir wrote: I used to have a premium account once upon a while. Not using it really (no land associated to the account) and being short of money, I didn't renew. The only thing that happened is that I'm back as a basic member now. So I don't see where is the problem :) Are you sure you didn't at any point select downgrade to basic on the web page? If that's the case, and I'd like LL confirmation of that, then there is no problem. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
Argent Stonecutter a écrit : On 2010-08-29, at 09:37, Laurent Bechir wrote: I used to have a premium account once upon a while. Not using it really (no land associated to the account) and being short of money, I didn't renew. The only thing that happened is that I'm back as a basic member now. So I don't see where is the problem:) Are you sure you didn't at any point select downgrade to basic on the web page? If that's the case, and I'd like LL confirmation of that, then there is no problem. Now that you tell me that, effectively, I must have asked do downgrade to basic at the end of my subscription ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:32:22 +0200 Laurent Bechir laurent.bec...@madonie.org wrote: Argent Stonecutter a écrit : On 2010-08-29, at 09:37, Laurent Bechir wrote: I used to have a premium account once upon a while. Not using it really (no land associated to the account) and being short of money, I didn't renew. The only thing that happened is that I'm back as a basic member now. So I don't see where is the problem:) Are you sure you didn't at any point select downgrade to basic on the web page? If that's the case, and I'd like LL confirmation of that, then there is no problem. Now that you tell me that, effectively, I must have asked do downgrade to basic at the end of my subscription there is already the feature on web page change membership plan ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Altair Sythos syt...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:32:22 +0200 Laurent Bechir laurent.bec...@madonie.org wrote: Argent Stonecutter a écrit : On 2010-08-29, at 09:37, Laurent Bechir wrote: [snip] As a (mostly read-only) user of opensource-dev, I'd like to see more on-topic posts. Maybe the moderator(s) could prune this branch... ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
Oddly I myself tend to only post when there's some kind of drama, as I don't do a lot of viewer development these days (only the odd patch when needed if I bother to login at all). On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Sodovan Torok sodovan.to...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Altair Sythos syt...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:32:22 +0200 Laurent Bechir laurent.bec...@madonie.org wrote: Argent Stonecutter a écrit : On 2010-08-29, at 09:37, Laurent Bechir wrote: [snip] As a (mostly read-only) user of opensource-dev, I'd like to see more on-topic posts. Maybe the moderator(s) could prune this branch... ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- “Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
