Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
Yes, I am being persistent and I will not let it drop til I get a definitive answer from Linden Lab. On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Cinder Roxley cin...@alchemyviewer.org wrote: On February 4, 2015 at 8:18:19 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyper...@gmail.com) wrote: Underneath BuildConsole which I assume is a wrapper to prepare an internal build request likely calls Devenv or MSBuild. Both are available in Pro and CE. Express only has MSBuild. Building from a blank build-vc120 with Devenv provides a significant build time improvement over MSBuild. However, a note on MS's web page for Denenv indicate that MSBuild should be used. That note has been present since VS2010 release. My thoughts are that the note was there with aim of easing the transition for C# and .NET developers that had historically used MSBuild into C++. One additional point. Singularity Viewer project still uses develop.py and it internally calls devenv.com with no bad result, as far as I know. For the list: Should autobuild.xml call MSBuild or Devenv? Hi, You keep asking this question expecting another response, I guess. As stated both here and on jira, Microsoft recommends MSBuild going forward. All major build server products use MSBuild. Singularity uses MSBuild and only falls back to devenv.exe when MSBuild is not available or broken. VS Express is a dead product as Microsoft will no longer be making new versions of it. VC projects can be slower on MSBuild because it has to do some backflips to build them (they’re not in MSBuild format). MSBuild also supports options that devenv does not (like increased verbosity). Coincidently, the switch from devenv to MSBuild has very little to do with .NET and more to do with the removal of VCBuild on favour of MSBuild. In anything newer than VS2010 devenv just calls MSBuild anyway! Hope this helps. -- Cinder Roxley Sent with Airmail ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
On 2/2/2015 1:42 PM, Nicky Perian wrote: Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild or Devenv? For what IncrediBuild does, see http://www.incredibuild.com/webhelp/distributing_vs_builds.html - it currently calls devenv, unless you force it to use msbuild thru the registry. buildconsole supports command flags compatible with either, so without that front end in place you'll want to watch your logs to make sure the commands make sense. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyper...@gmail.com) wrote:
I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to
python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer develop.py
correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it finds
visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't present in
Express.
{code}
environment = self.find_visual_studio()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single()
if environment == '':
print sys.stderr, Something went very wrong during
build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?
else:
build_dirs=self.build_dirs()
print sys.stderr, \nSolution generation complete, it
can can now be found in:, build_dirs[0]
print sys.stderr, \nAs you are using an Express Visual
Studio, the build step cannot be automated
print sys.stderr, \nPlease see
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions
for Visual Studio Express specific information
exit(0)
Either you’ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or your
sources are well out of date. -_-
https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675
--
Cinder Roxley
Sent with Airmail
# devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much.
return ('%sdevenv.com %s.sln /build %s' %
(self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name, self.build_type))
{code}___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to
python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer
develop.py
correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it
finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't
present in Express.
{code}
environment = self.find_visual_studio()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single()
if environment == '':
print sys.stderr, Something went very wrong during
build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?
else:
build_dirs=self.build_dirs()
print sys.stderr, \nSolution generation complete,
it can can now be found in:, build_dirs[0]
print sys.stderr, \nAs you are using an Express
Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated
print sys.stderr, \nPlease see
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions
for Visual Studio Express specific information
exit(0)
# devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much.
return ('%sdevenv.com %s.sln /build %s' %
(self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name,
self.build_type))
{code}
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Nicky Perian nickyper...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I am being persistent and I will not let it drop til I get a
definitive answer from Linden Lab.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Cinder Roxley cin...@alchemyviewer.org
wrote:
On February 4, 2015 at 8:18:19 AM, Nicky Perian (nickyper...@gmail.com)
wrote:
Underneath BuildConsole which I assume is a wrapper to prepare an
internal build request likely calls Devenv or MSBuild. Both are available
in Pro and CE. Express only has MSBuild.
Building from a blank build-vc120 with Devenv provides a significant
build time improvement over MSBuild. However, a note on MS's web page for
Denenv indicate that MSBuild should be used. That note has been present
since VS2010 release. My thoughts are that the note was there with aim of
easing the transition for C# and .NET developers that had historically used
MSBuild into C++.
One additional point. Singularity Viewer project still uses develop.py
and it internally calls devenv.com with no bad result, as far as I know.
For the list:
Should autobuild.xml call MSBuild or Devenv?
Hi,
You keep asking this question expecting another response, I guess. As
stated both here and on jira, Microsoft recommends MSBuild going forward.
All major build server products use MSBuild. Singularity uses MSBuild and
only falls back to devenv.exe when MSBuild is not available or broken. VS
Express is a dead product as Microsoft will no longer be making new
versions of it.
VC projects can be slower on MSBuild because it has to do some backflips
to build them (they’re not in MSBuild format). MSBuild also supports
options that devenv does not (like increased verbosity). Coincidently, the
switch from devenv to MSBuild has very little to do with .NET and more to
do with the removal of VCBuild on favour of MSBuild. In anything newer than
VS2010 devenv just calls MSBuild anyway!
Hope this helps.
--
Cinder Roxley
Sent with Airmail
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
privileges
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
https://www.incredibuild.com/frequently-asked-questions-technical.html#q4
Q: Can IncrediBuild be used from the command-line or from build scripts?
A: Yes. IncrediBuild includes a strong command-line interface for building
projects, which can easily be integrated in any script that runs
msdev.exe/devenv.exe to build projects. In fact, BuildConsole.exe supports
the devenv/msdev command line syntax so you would typically only need to
replace the executable name in your script!
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Nicky Perian nickyper...@gmail.com wrote:
A look at the options below BuildConsole indicated that devenv is the
underlying builder.
devenv secondlife.sln /build Release|Win32
would be the underlying command as neither of those options can be used
with MSBuild.
keyRelease/key
map
keybuild/key
map
keyarguments/key
array
stringSecondLife.sln/string
/array
keycommand/key
stringBuildConsole/string
keyoptions/key
array
string/build/string
string/cfg=Release|Win32/string
/array
/map
keyconfigure/key
map
keyarguments/key
array
string..\indra/string
stringamp;amp;/string
string..\indra\tools\vstool\VSTool.exe/string
string--solution/string
stringSecondLife.sln/string
string--config/string
stringRelease/string
string--startup/string
stringsecondlife-bin/string
/array
keyoptions/key
array
string-G/string
stringVisual Studio 12/string
/array
/map
keyname/key
stringRelease/string
/map
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Nicky Perian nickyper...@gmail.com
wrote:
To complete the record as a couple replies missed the list
git pull / merge from singularity 1-20-2015
tip at hash 123ded50
by Inusaito Sayori 2015-01-20 16:44:22
origin https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer.git
(fetch)
the msbuild code was put in as an experiment by Shyotl on December 18.
2014
https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer/commit/e57bcea3b648bc13ceeb1a5b53a39d27cf103c30
I don't know when he actually pushed his branch but I assume it was after
1-20-2015.
So it appears that msbuild has only been in use by Singularity for at
most 2 weeks.
My point is that devenv has been used for a very long time by Singularity
with afaik no bad results.
So, no my sources were not well out of date and no I did present a self
edited code snip.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Cinder Roxley cin...@alchemyviewer.org
wrote:
On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyper...@gmail.com)
wrote:
I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to
python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer
develop.py
correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time
it finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't
present in Express.
{code}
environment = self.find_visual_studio()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single()
if environment == '':
print sys.stderr, Something went very wrong
during build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?
else:
build_dirs=self.build_dirs()
print sys.stderr, \nSolution generation
complete, it can can now be found in:, build_dirs[0]
print sys.stderr, \nAs you are using an Express
Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated
print sys.stderr, \nPlease see
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions
for Visual Studio Express specific information
exit(0)
Either you’ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or
your sources are well out of date. -_-
https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675
--
Cinder Roxley
Sent with Airmail
# devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much.
return ('%sdevenv.com %s.sln /build %s' %
(self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name,
self.build_type))
{code}
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
To complete the record as a couple replies missed the list
git pull / merge from singularity 1-20-2015
tip at hash 123ded50
by Inusaito Sayori 2015-01-20 16:44:22
origin https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer.git (fetch)
the msbuild code was put in as an experiment by Shyotl on December 18. 2014
https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer/commit/e57bcea3b648bc13ceeb1a5b53a39d27cf103c30
I don't know when he actually pushed his branch but I assume it was after
1-20-2015.
So it appears that msbuild has only been in use by Singularity for at most
2 weeks.
My point is that devenv has been used for a very long time by Singularity
with afaik no bad results.
So, no my sources were not well out of date and no I did present a self
edited code snip.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Cinder Roxley cin...@alchemyviewer.org
wrote:
On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyper...@gmail.com)
wrote:
I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to
python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer
develop.py
correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it
finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't
present in Express.
{code}
environment = self.find_visual_studio()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single()
if environment == '':
print sys.stderr, Something went very wrong during
build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?
else:
build_dirs=self.build_dirs()
print sys.stderr, \nSolution generation complete,
it can can now be found in:, build_dirs[0]
print sys.stderr, \nAs you are using an Express
Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated
print sys.stderr, \nPlease see
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions
for Visual Studio Express specific information
exit(0)
Either you’ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or
your sources are well out of date. -_-
https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675
--
Cinder Roxley
Sent with Airmail
# devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much.
return ('%sdevenv.com %s.sln /build %s' %
(self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name,
self.build_type))
{code}
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
privileges
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Avatar Hover Height feature
On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 03:50:08 +0100, Carlo Wood wrote:
However,
sometimes I wonder why you aren't being smarter than this :p
Probably because I'm more stubborn than I am smart... :-P
I don't give-up easily when I know my way is the right way to
achieve a given result.
Linden Lab ('s internal coders) hadn't even LOOKED at our
contributions and EVERYTHING we did had been /dev/null-ed and
not used in their next release. I didn't reconfirmation: I left.
Yes, it is exactly what I meant by waste of resources in my last
message... It saddens me to no end when I see talented programmers
giving up on SL because of LL's stance... The first one, of fond
memories, was Nicholaz Beresford... It was before Oz' era too.
At the time I was enthusiastic about working on an opensource
viewer (even though that meant given my private info, which I
agree is rather silly and annoying; and I understand why you
refuse that)... That was before Oz .../...
Bottom line is. Linden Lab only uses and likes invented here.
The don't listen to others, nor are they interested in what
others have to say.
Yes, it has been a constant in LL's stance, and Oz is therefore not the
(only) one to blame. LL's policy towards Open Source is simply
inadequate and harmful... for themselves !
It is obvious and perfectly normal that LL must have the last word and
make the final decision on SL's working and features. However, it is a
pure waste of grey matter resources to dismiss or ignore proposals and
just oppose a the factors .../... are quite complicated as an excuse
for it, not even caring to discuss the matter, and first starting to
expose their constraints and what complication(s) they encounter. We
(the Open Source developers) may surprise them and come up with a
solution they didn't think about... That's the whole point of
collaborative work !
.../... Trying to communicate with Linden Lab is a waste of your time.
This is alas all too often true. However, sometimes, communication works
(see the AO example I cited yesterday in my last message on this list).
Thing is, I cannot infer from the various communication experiences with
them a way to make sure my next proposal will be taken into account in
a constructive fashion by LL... Their reactions to proposals are at best
described as chaotic !
Stop Wasting Your Time. Just let them kill SL in peace.
It's not a total waste (the waste only happens when trying to
communicate with LL and they don't listen/care).
I like SL a lot. I love programming. It's fun as far as I am concerned.
I also like challenges and I like to use my brain to solve problems.
This said, should I get tired of it all and stop having fun in SL
(because I'm a roleplayer too, and enjoy roleplaying in SL), then I'll
definitely give up.
Also, I took the Your World, Your Imagination motto to the letter,
and Lindens should perhaps be reminded that motto from time to times...
PS Needless to say that I completely agree with the technical point you
have been making. But it's not just the hover height that is
problematic lol. The whole animation (format) is useless.
The format lacks a single parameter: what bone (or more likely joint)
shall stay in contact with the ground when a given standing (i.e.
when the avatar is root and not seated on a prim) animation is played.
We could call this parameter the contact bone/joint.
For a kneeling anim, it would be the knee joint, for a laying anim,
it could be the shoulder joints or the spine bone, for a standing
anim, the feet, etc...
This could be one of the improvements in SL 2 (it's too late for SL 1)
*if* LL already thought about it, or *if* they read this message...
.../...
The main problem with both is that it only works for a static pose,
not for an animation where the knees are bend and stretched again,
like in certain dance animations, or in animation where someone goes
from standing up to a (ground) sitting pose for example.
You are perfectly right... and the height adjustment indeed can't
suffice in the case of complex animations. One of the solutions (for
SL 2), still retaining the contact bone/joint idea I described above
would be to allow this reference to be changed on a per-frame basis.
Note that the server-side contact bone/joint implementation would
be quite complex and involve a much smarter physics engine or a
much more complete description/implementation of an avatar in that
engine (instead of dealing with a bounding box and its center
position, the physics engine would have to deal with every avatar's
bones/joints).
Regards,
Henri.
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
On 2015-02-02 10:42 , Nicky Perian wrote: Does the underlying builder in LL's automated build system call MSBuild or Devenv? Neither - as you can see in the autobuild.xml configuration, it runs 'BuildConsole'. I don't see any value at all in maintaining compatibility with Express given that the Community Edition is closer to the Pro version we use; if anyone disagrees, by all means make your case but because we used to do it that way isn't going to be a strong argument. I'm pretty tied up in an internal planning conference this week (figuring out good things to do for Second Life in the coming several months), so please forgive me if my responses are even slower than usual. -- *Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)* | /Engineering Director, Second Life/ Email or Hangouts o...@lindenlab.com mailto:o...@lindenlab.com | Second Life Oz Linden https://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces http://lindenlab.com/ Check out what we're working on! http://lindenlab.com/products ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Tools Upgrades - with a call for help
A look at the options below BuildConsole indicated that devenv is the
underlying builder.
devenv secondlife.sln /build Release|Win32
would be the underlying command as neither of those options can be used
with MSBuild.
keyRelease/key
map
keybuild/key
map
keyarguments/key
array
stringSecondLife.sln/string
/array
keycommand/key
stringBuildConsole/string
keyoptions/key
array
string/build/string
string/cfg=Release|Win32/string
/array
/map
keyconfigure/key
map
keyarguments/key
array
string..\indra/string
stringamp;amp;/string
string..\indra\tools\vstool\VSTool.exe/string
string--solution/string
stringSecondLife.sln/string
string--config/string
stringRelease/string
string--startup/string
stringsecondlife-bin/string
/array
keyoptions/key
array
string-G/string
stringVisual Studio 12/string
/array
/map
keyname/key
stringRelease/string
/map
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Nicky Perian nickyper...@gmail.com wrote:
To complete the record as a couple replies missed the list
git pull / merge from singularity 1-20-2015
tip at hash 123ded50
by Inusaito Sayori 2015-01-20 16:44:22
origin https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer.git (fetch)
the msbuild code was put in as an experiment by Shyotl on December 18. 2014
https://github.com/singularity-viewer/SingularityViewer/commit/e57bcea3b648bc13ceeb1a5b53a39d27cf103c30
I don't know when he actually pushed his branch but I assume it was after
1-20-2015.
So it appears that msbuild has only been in use by Singularity for at most
2 weeks.
My point is that devenv has been used for a very long time by Singularity
with afaik no bad results.
So, no my sources were not well out of date and no I did present a self
edited code snip.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Cinder Roxley cin...@alchemyviewer.org
wrote:
On February 4, 2015 at 2:18:55 PM, Nicky Perian (nickyper...@gmail.com)
wrote:
I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw especially when it come to
python. But, if I am reading this code snip from SingularityViewer
develop.py
correctly a command line build using devenv.com is executed each time it
finds visual studio and does not use it for Express because it isn't
present in Express.
{code}
environment = self.find_visual_studio()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express()
if environment == '':
environment = self.find_visual_studio_express_single()
if environment == '':
print sys.stderr, Something went very wrong
during build stage, could not find a Visual Studio?
else:
build_dirs=self.build_dirs()
print sys.stderr, \nSolution generation complete,
it can can now be found in:, build_dirs[0]
print sys.stderr, \nAs you are using an Express
Visual Studio, the build step cannot be automated
print sys.stderr, \nPlease see
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio#Extra_steps_for_Visual_Studio_Express_editions
for Visual Studio Express specific information
exit(0)
Either you’ve intentionally removed msbuild from this block of code or
your sources are well out of date. -_-
https://bitbucket.org/lkalif/singularityviewer/src/f0b18e52a3d977c2c19f2a6b4e50292acb5941f2/indra/develop.py?at=master#cl-675
--
Cinder Roxley
Sent with Airmail
# devenv.com is CLI friendly, devenv.exe... not so much.
return ('%sdevenv.com %s.sln /build %s' %
(self.find_visual_studio(), self.project_name,
self.build_type))
{code}
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
privileges
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
