Re: [opensource-dev] A fond farewell
I will miss the man who could rearrange the universe by snapping his fingers :) You have made a big contribution in ways that many do not know. Great work and thanks for everything. Best of luck and safe travels, Joel On Mar 4, 2011 2:18 PM, "Kent Quirk (Q Linden)" wrote: > In case you hadn't already heard, this is one of my last emails as Q Linden. Today's my last day. > > It's been fun working with you all. You may see me again as a contributor. We'll see how it goes. > > Thanks for all of your passion. > > Q > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Pre-processing chat input (was Re: Review Request: STORM-829 Viewer 2 does not parse /me in object Instant Messages
Skype still supports /me... Many of the folks I know use /me regularly, for what it's worth. Skype displays the difference much more obviously, placing the text centered with different styling than normal chat with /me, so it has more emphasis than in sl visually. Joel On Jan 12, 2011 5:21 PM, "Ricky" wrote: > Interesting. I haven't tested other IM clients in recent history, but > Skype still supports the /me syntax. I suspect that the others do so > as well. > > Just my L$2... > > Ricky > Cron Stardust > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Tateru Nino wrote: >> >> >> On 13/01/2011 2:17 AM, Jamey Fletcher wrote: >>> Tateru Nino wrote: >>> Which is a shame. It's significantly less versatile that way. On 13/01/2011 12:06 AM, Nexii Malthus wrote: > "/me " is a *post-process*. >>> I'm missing what versatility we're wanting in /me - I've always seen it >>> as a rather straight-forward substitution. >>> >> Well, using myself for an example, I'm used to using a completely >> different set of tokens and substitutions for that sort of thing. I >> think SL is the only thing I use that supports the old IRC syntax. I >> find it awkward, and it would be nice to be able to use conventions that >> are more common to the software that I use. As a post-processed >> substitution token, though, I just don't have the luxury to use familiar >> textual communication modes. >> >> -- >> Tateru Nino >> http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ >> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges >> > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] does anyone else think this would be a good thing?
Folks who want to see sign language for accessibility would be all over that :) Joel On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Ricky wrote: > If we were to go to that level, then it'd be better (and more PC) to > simply add bones to the fingers of the hands. That way animators > could do whatever they feel like to the hands. > > Combine that with an extensible client-side animation system... But > that's a pipe dream for now! :) But maybe > > Ricky > Cron Stardust > > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Dave Booth > wrote: > > I've been thinking about the anims I've been making for my products > > inworld.. I know the mesh guys are screaming for custom bones but it > > strikes me that even in the standard animation setup theres a possible > > enhancement. More hand positions > > > > I know its not a viewer side thing really.. but what do you guys think > > about these... > > > > The "thumb" position - enables thumbs up, thumbs down and incidentally > > the Sicilian thumbnail flip.. > > The V position - enables the classic anime gesture, along with the > > "Winston Churchill" and unavoidably the "Harvey Smith" (which is the > > brit equivalent of...) > > The bird.. Its gotta be there.. the flip off is part of human > > interaction and even if it isn't kind it is an essential part of > > immersion in the world > > May as well add the "horns" too - useful for inworld pagans as well as > > folks wanting to ward off the evil eye... > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] User story: Searchable contacts and inventory notes
As a resident, I would like to be able to search contacts based on contents of contact notes, picks or content of 1st/2nd life tab text. In a related (maybe another story but connected) way, I would like to be able to record notes about inventory items, and search them in the same way. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache
I propose a slight modification... As a user, I want to be able to choose some number of places that load more quickly, and am willing to trade some disk space to make this happen. This list of places may, or may not, be based on visit frequency, favorites or personal selection. (I may want a particular place to load quickly even though I do not visit it frequently or do not want to list it in favorites.) Joel On Sep 16, 2010 12:58 PM, "Kelly Linden" wrote: Strictly speaking I think you have the stories and tasks reversed here. As a user I'd like to be able to use a greater portion of my available disk to improve the SL experience. * Task: Improve the cache system to allow larger caches As a user I'd like the places I visit most often, like my 'home' and favorites, to load more quickly * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my home (at least not for a while) * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my 'favorites' places (at least not for a while) As a user I'd like to never have to clear the cache to fix a bug * Task: Implement a quick and efficient inventory verification to find inventory cache discrepancies. * Task: (Are there other common bugs that require a cache clear to fix?) Improving the cache system is a task (actually multiple tasks) used to accomplish the three experience stories you have. Stories should generally be about the end experience, not the underlying system or how the experiences will be fixed. Yes, that is a rough guide, especially for many stories where the actor is 'a developer', but it helps still. :) That said these are great ideas, and should definitely be on a backlog somewhere if they aren't. I know we have discussed all of them at one point or another. - Kelly On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Daniel wrote: > > As a user I would ... ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Severe water flicker in recent development build
> > One possibility is if the Lindens set up an island, with an agent limit > of *1*. Region forces AV to face a particular direction. Avatar drops > in, and waits 5 mins. During that time, the system records frame rates, > CPU, and vid card. AV reports graphics settings (unless that can be > pulled from the client automatically). AVs do it with client set to the > absolute defaults for low, mid, high, and ultra, turning off anistropic > filtering and antialiasing. A few weeks of that, and we should have > some good data - would have to be the stock client, too, though - but > could record stock 1.23 and stock 2.1, and get good data on whether the > changes to the rendering engine helped. > > I've found that graphics cards and machines will reverse performance ranking sometimes based on the scene they're presented with. The load of having other avatars around is substantial and sometimes different from card to card (and on lower end machines occasionally it's seemed that turning off avatar nametags can make a noticeable difference). Some "less capable" cards will hold up better in some circumstances, in terms of FPS degradation percent, than "better" ones, and it's hard to guess based on looking at the scene. A single scenario will tell something, but it's hard to extrapolate from it and generalize over the range of scenes found on the grid. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Severe water flicker in recent development build
Another thought to toss in is that Second Life is fairly CPU dependent for performance too. Just last night, I upgraded a machine here from an AMD Athlon 8650 2.6 GHz triple core processor to an AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz quad core. This system has an NVidia 9800GT-based card in it, and that stayed. FPS went from 45 FPS to 75-80+ FPS in a scene that I know well. Same machine. Same graphics card. Same net connection. Yes, the graphics card matters, but what this says to me is that performance benchmarking by putting a low performance graphics card in a high performance machine is invalid, as the results will be significantly better than experienced in the wild with a low end machine. Hope this helps, Joel On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Yoz Grahame wrote: > Might be worth running this past Team Shining, especially since they've > worked on some major speed improvements to water recently. No idea how close > they are to merging. > > > On 12 September 2010 06:22, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) > wrote: > >> I'm seeing what I believe is the same problem described in SNOW-745 in >> our current development viewer. >> Second Life 2.1.2 (209297) >> >> I added some detail to the issue description. >> >> It's very irritating. I think we need to do something about it (might >> we be able to force Atmospheric Shaders to 'on'? That appears to >> suppress the problem). >> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Severe water flicker in recent development build
I hope... ??? ... that someone doing rendering dev has a typical netbook class computer to try things on, and actually does it and checks performance variations from build to build on a few classes of hardware... That would point the performance issues out quite directly, and cost a mere US $350 each to have on hand. Netbooks represent common low end machines that are very popular. While I also have high end hardware, I often run about with a netbook, and have yet to see it above 8 FPS on any build at any time. Some might be tempted to say "oh, that's an absurd machine that we're not targeting", however as evidence I would point to the blog post I did a while back on performance optimization for low end machines http://joelfoner.com/2009/12/8-ways-to-make-low-perf-computer-second-life-faster/. At this point that post has now been retweeted 71 times, is over 5000 unique page views, and generated lots of email comments that their netbook/cheap machine from best buy/etc is finally marginally useful with Second Life. Increasing the base graphics hardware requirements will likely kill off both netbooks and the class of machines just above it, which is not in my view a good move. Hope this helps, Joel On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Yoz Grahame wrote: > Might be worth running this past Team Shining, especially since they've > worked on some major speed improvements to water recently. No idea how close > they are to merging. > > > On 12 September 2010 06:22, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) > wrote: > >> I'm seeing what I believe is the same problem described in SNOW-745 in >> our current development viewer. >> Second Life 2.1.2 (209297) >> >> I added some detail to the issue description. >> >> It's very irritating. I think we need to do something about it (might >> we be able to force Atmospheric Shaders to 'on'? That appears to >> suppress the problem). >> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
Quick note... if the $100 a month, if this is rent, is not being paid to Linden Lab if you're renting. It's paid to another avatar... different picture... It seems to me the slap in the face is a landlord who does this to a large number of tenants without notice, actually. Joel (also going back to lurking) On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Darmath wrote: > On 29/08/2010 1:23 AM, Gareth Nelson wrote: > > and pointing out that LL have no contract with tenants of > > rental regions - tenants of such regions are thus not customers. > True. But a premium account holder is a customer of LL. "And to say well > we dont want you $100 a month because your not a full sim owner" is a > slap in the face, period. FWIW i'm a premium account holder...whose now > returning to lurking. > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
> > > After being a paying customer for more than a year, renting a homestead, > and thus paying Linden Lab ~ USD$ 1000 or so ... they just take the sim > offline, with no opening to even discuss the matter. > > Why? Because of something I did? No. The reason is that Linden > Lab isn't interested in the "little people". Unless you have a FULL > sim of USD$ 300 per month, you don't count. There is a simple answer for this. You are the customer of your landlord in this case, not Linden Lab. Yes, you have a Second Life account, but you are not renting your land from Linden Lab. You are renting your land from another avatar in Second Life. Linden Lab is not a party to your decision to rent... so why are they accountable if some other avatar bails out and decides to "level their city block"? If the landlord decided to stop renting, boot everyone off and re-terraform the region for some completely different use, would you think Linden Lab would have any responsibility for stopping that or somehow compensating you? It's the landlord's land, and they can do anything with it they choose to, including shut it down, leave, take it over from the renters, or shut it down and let no one else in at all. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] separation between login id and publicly visible id(s) (was: display names = the end of 1.x viewers?)
> > As Josh and others have said, one of the things we'd need is a unique > secret account identifier. Unfortunately the only existing account datum > which might work here is email address, and that's not unique, though we're > starting to think that it really should be > Just a quick note... email addresses change fairly regularly. Basing the permanent unique account identifier on a transient token seems bound to create problems in the longer term due to user movements from one email address to another, and old addresses become invalid and even forgotten by users. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement
In a previous email I said: "The ability to do so is not new technology" To clarify, I am *not* suggesting that some software program be run to provide text transcription, as that is not totally solved in a speaker independent way. Using actual people, however, to provide real-time and after the fact transcription services is well proven, both outside and inside Second Life. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement
Providing text transcription of voice speakers for the disabled, as well as those who for various reasons cannot enable voice at the time, and for capture of a text searchable archive of the whole event, is a solved problem. Totally solved. It needs no figuring out or experimentation. Real-time voice to text transcription by a person during the event, as well as an after-the-fact voice recording to transcription can be done, and is often done, in Second Life, in various presentation, discussion and meeting contexts. It costs some real money, but not an outrageous amount for the service provided, and this has been done inworld for years in various settings, providing ample precedent for the fact that this approach "just works" just fine in Second Life. The only reason not to provide text transcription is cost. The ability to do so is not new technology, and it does not slow down voice speakers, while resulting in a comprehensive after the fact text transcript and a real-time transcription of voice-only speakers for those with disabilities or those who are not disabled and cannot enable voice in their current environment (for instance some at work cannot enable speakers or wear headphones for various reasons). There are inworld transcriptionists who are skilled at capturing real-time conversation to text. They do a fine job of capturing the concepts - leaving the detailed high accuracy transcription for after the fact transcription services. There are a variety (hundreds, perhaps thousands) of companies found on the web that specialize in recorded voice to text transcription services, some of whom already work in Second Life. The after-the-fact transcriptionist firms do not need to have Second Life experience, as they are working from a voice recording, although it is helpful if they have some domain understanding of the discussion content. If this is a priority item such that paying the going rates for said services is agreed, the issue can be solved in the immediate time frame to everyone's satisfaction. Regards, Joel (with an attempt at a constructive and solution-directed comment) On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Tateru Nino wrote: > > > On 17/08/2010 4:56 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: > > > > Will try to come, hoping it's not going to be one of those voice meetings > where non-English people like me can't speak well enough neither understand > what is being said... > > > This meeting will include voice because it's so time consuming to do > everything in chat. We will have someone putting the important points into > chat as much as possible, and will certainly respond to questions in chat. > > For anyone who wants to have a separate chat-only meeting at another time, > I'll be glad to set that up. > > Actually, I was thinking about the Americans With Disabilities Act, > personally. Especially as the anniversary of the Act has just been by. > Unless text, you know, clearly represents an "unreasonable burden". > > -- > Tateru Ninohttp://dwellonit.taterunino.net/ > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Where has "Spare time" gone in 2.0 ?
45 FPS is the target frame rate for the simulator, regardless of how many regions the hardware is supporting. At 45 FPS time runs at "full speed." Time dilation is calculated by determining how much slower than 45 FPS the simulator is running. In other words at a frame time of double normal, 45 mS per frame, the FPS would be halved to 22.5 FPS, and Time Dilation is 0.5. The simulator FPS number is not random... Joel On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Carlo Wood wrote: > On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 07:19:41AM -0500, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > > On 2010-04-25, at 06:34, Carlo Wood wrote: > > >On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 08:38:16AM +0200, Marine Kelley wrote: > > >>Besides this entry is not even sent by the sim, it is calculated > > >>by the viewer > > >>as (22.5 - net - physics - sim - agent - images - script), > > >>unless I'm mistaken. > > >>It would be rather easy to put it in again. > > > > >That 22.5 seems a bit random ... perhaps it was changed already? > > > > That 22.5 is 1000/45. The sim is supposed to be running at 45 FPS. > > If that was changed, that would be a big deal. > > Doesn't that assume that the server has nothing else to do > than this one sim? What about servers that run more than > one sim? (How many sims DO run on one server?) > > -- > Carlo Wood > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVPTopics to a different mailing list
I wonder if anyone has an easy way to calculate the actual signal (os-dev posts) to noise (legal posts) ratio on this list over, let's say the last 30 days. It's getting hard to recall when the last actual os-dev discussion happened. Maybe I'm just missing it. Back to my regularly scheduled programming, as it were. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 3, Issue 40
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Daniel wrote: > The very fact that reasonably intelligent people here on this list, > which are part of the community the TPV is aimed at, cannot agree what > it means, is cause to rewrite it for more clarity. > > Carlo Wood wrote: > > You know, this would actually make me feel better if you were a lawyer. > > Even more so, if you were a Linden Lab lawyer. But since (I assume) > neither > > is the case, this is just your interpretation and I see it differently. > Legal interpretation is the only one that matters for a legal document, and at the same time, it is sometimes possible to reframe a legal document to make more sense to a casual reader in areas that are intuitively unclear. Asking for legal language changes without being a lawyer or consulting with one is on the dangerous end of the spectrum... to that old saw "be careful what you ask for." Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Stuff from my Lunch Bag
Sometimes it's useful to take a large parallel jump as a way of exploring an issue. This one just hit me as a direct parallel (riffing on Gareth's idea below): Is it possible to hold a web browser manufacturer responsible as a tool to breach security and steal credit card numbers, perform denial of service attacks and infiltrate secure systems? It would be amusing to see someone take legal action against Google for the fact that Chrome enabled an attacker to penetrate a Google internal system someday. Maybe I need coffee before thinking about this stuff! Joel On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Gareth Nelson wrote: > > Not that the Lab actually needs anything resembling the TPVP to > successfully > > take legal action against someone making pernicious viewers available or > > creating them for their own use. > > I can use telnet to break into various TCP-based servers, does that > make the authors of my telnet client liable for my actions? > > Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Brown-bag meeting to continue dialog on TVPV
All of these are recordable, actually, and there is always the option of a voice conference call that is recorded. The technology really shouldn't be a limiting factor in having a discussion on any of these platforms if creating a record is a primary concern. (Including Second Life with video, voice and text chat - takes a few computers and some media production understanding, but that's a configuration I've been running for a long time for various projects. IIRC Skype is limited to either 10 or 20 people on a call, but again there are any number of conference call services using regular phones that can either in the service record, or be recorded by a connected computer. Joel On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Robert Martin wrote: > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Erik Anderson > wrote: > > Would Skype be an option? > > --piping up from the peanut gallery... > > > 1 not every stake holder even has skype > 2 still has the not recordable problem > 3 would it even scale to the needed level?? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] So you don't like the new TOS and wanna move to the OS grid?
This could be a not so bright question, but shouldn't all those patches to fix up OpenSim bugs be ending up back in the trunk and end up with the default downloads working better? Joel On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Gareth Nelson wrote: > The thing with OSGrid is that it was meant from the start to be a > public grid where anyone can link up - and so regions there could be > hosted on a 486 with 64mb of RAM (and loads of swap space on > disk..) connected through a VPN over dialup to a satellite > connection in a stormy climate for all you know. > > For anything serious, it's wise to stick to the core regions which > have professional hosting arrangements (hi cari.net - remember me?) or > one of the many commercial grids cropping up. I'd ask around to find > who's hottest right now, but advise you find one with a server > development team that does their own patching of opensim, as out of > the box it can be very very buggy. > > On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Glen Canaday wrote: > > Mmm. There are many grids, all running different server versions. All of > > the web-related stuff like the concurrency, etc., is all client-side and > > has nothing at all to do with OpenSim. It's web data and your client > > wasn't configured to look at any other web page with that data. > > > > In short, it looks like what you saw was something akin to a very, very > > bad wireless connection. I used to have the same things in SL (ping > > times near 20 sec) before I replaced my wireless card. Physics engines > > don't work when you can't participate in the server frames! The > > particular grid you were on could have been served from crap hardware > > and connection. The upshot is that they could serve it at all, and that > > you could connect... but people (like me) often tend to bite off more > > than they can chew at times. You need a good machine and good > > connectivity in order to serve regions - which LL has invested *oodles* > > into. > > > > --GC > > > > On 04/04/2010 02:49 AM, Dale Mahalko wrote: > >> I just tried using the SL 1.x client with OS grid for the first time > >> this weekend. Overall the experience was plain awful, on a 10 megabit > >> internet connection and GTX 285 1024meg > >> > >> > >> Oddly, when giving the SL client the OSgrid URL from the command line, > >> the client login page tells me that the Second Life grid is up, and > >> the number of concurrent users in SL, etc. Why is the client not > >> telling me the status of the OSgrid instead? > >> > >> On first login, the sim textures took forever to load. Like, after 5 > >> minutes I'm still standing in a sea of gray boxes. > >> > >> Simple physics only with the ground. All objects are phantom. I'd > >> think the OSGrid default login would want to showcase the > >> collision-resolving capabilities of the more advanced open physics > >> engines, but oh well. > >> > >> When I search for sandboxes to try building stuff... odd, the search > >> window shows me stuff from Second Life, not the OSGrid. Most teleports > >> fail because it appears I'm getting links to SL sims that don't accept > >> connections from OSGrid. Yep, I can find the Cordova Sandbox from the > >> search page within OSGrid. (I don't think search should list sims that > >> don't accept connections.) > >> > >> Searching for "osgrid" in the search window oddly turns up nothing. > >> How am I to find sandbox sims in OSGrid? "Oh, just open the map and > >> pick that way" someone tells me. Yeah that works well. the map shows > >> about a 10x10 grid of sims nearby, but the rest of the map doesn't > >> want to load. Timeout. > >> > >> I did actually manage to find another OSgrid sim to connect to, but on > >> join it turned out to have a ping of 6000. (It would be useful for the > >> search page to show a graph of the sim load for the last five minutes > >> so we know if a sim is lagged out BEFORE we try teleporting.) > >> > >> And oh joy, I can't now "teleport home" to where I started. The OSgrid > >> did something I've not seen happen on SL in a long time, where I seem > >> to still be connected but all the traffic meters in the client debug > >> (Ctrl-Shift-1) drop to 0 kbps. > >> > >> The inventory never loaded completely, even though as a new user it's > empty. > >> > >> Relogin attempts attempting to login at the home location were just as > >> slow and unresponsive. > >> > >> > >> Yep, if you don't like the new SL client developer TOS, there is sure > >> a great future to look forward to with the open source grid project. > >> :-P > >> ___ > >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > >> > > > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policie
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Development project: extending avatar wearables
This is a pretty generic question, but I hope it will be helpful. Under what conditions might it be possible to do a fairly quick to release version and then iterate the feature behavior towards something more sophisticated, without breaking things? Best regards, Joel On 3/26/10, Carlo Wood wrote: > Jonathan, > > I have no disrespect at all for Nyx. And yes, it's highly appreciated > that he asks us for input instead of just implementing it. > > Still, if nothing in his original design is going to be changed > then the effect is almost the same; except if this list is > convinced that his original design is indeed the best. > > Apparently that stands or falls with having time (money) to do > anything beyond what he already planned to do, and therefore > explaining that is the only way to make the list understand this. > > Hence my question. Not because I think he is wrong, but because > I want to know (and understand): Why not implement the extra > requests from this list and then release the whole feature > three months later? Imho it IS better to delay the feature and > release a really well-thought-out new feature that will really > work for a long time, than to be 3 months sooner and have people > feel frustrated about little shortcomings for the next 3 years. > > Specifically to Jonathan: I'm sure this is a misunderstanding > in the way my post came across. I appologise for that. It's > sometimes hard to come accross correctly in written emails > (I'm not even good at it in RL). > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 02:52:39PM -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote: >> >> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 06:56, Carlo Wood wrote: >> >> It bothers me a bit that we (you) would choose to go >> for an implementation that is not the best or the >> ideal one, ONLY because you want to push out a new >> feature "in time". >> >> >> Carlo, it pains me to see you have this attitude towards the >> Lindens...especially those who are in here trying to communicate with us. >> ***Linden Labs has limited resources*** They can't just magically allocate >> time >> and money to a feature that would be awesome because you think so. They >> have >> time and money constraints. >> >> >> Personally, I'd first design how I'd want it to look >> from the user point of view (what most of the discussion >> from the community is about) without taking into account >> coding arguments. And once we have that, I'd just >> implement it, no matter the costs or time needed. >> That is what coders do: they implement what is requested. >> >> >> This is a blind perspective to have. Coding constraints come into play >> because >> coding takes time and when you are on a payroll with a budget, time = >> money. >> You have to sacrifice the really awesome feature that will take a while >> for the >> ones that are easy, but have an ok benefit. >> >> The Lindens aren't tools, my friend. Perhaps showing more respect for >> them >> will give you respect in return by getting us new features. And, keep in >> mind, >> this is an OpenSource forum. If you have an idea, make it happen and >> pitch it >> to us. Code it yourself and post it to the open forum. The lindens have >> enough on their plate as it is which is why they went the opensource route >> to >> begin with...having the assistance of the community make a better product. >> >> >> Thus, since for almost everything we said so far your >> argument is: we can't do that within the given timeframe; >> can you defend, or at least make acceptable and understandable >> that "a" new feature has to be added in 3 months, even if >> that new feauture is a bit inferior compared to what >> that UI could have looked like? >> >> >> Again, show some respect here. The lindens have a lot on their plate and >> are >> wanting you to make a business case for this. They need to know a >> feasible, >> tangible way they can impliment feature ABC while not over taxing their >> resources. Also, this feature needs to be used by the whole and not a >> small >> percentage of users. >> >> >> Changing it AGAIN in the near future (ie, 6 months later) >> is probably not going to happen for several reasons :/ >> So, not doing it right now has almost the same implications >> as deciding to never do it. I'd really like to understand >> why that is the best thing to do. >> >> Thanks for discussing this with us, >> Carlo Wood >> >> PS With regards to the UI design. >> I like the concept of "click wear" inserts the wearable >> in a default place, after which you can reorder it. >> And where this inserting means "at the top of a folder >> that one of the currently existing wearable categories". >> It just makes sense. >> >> But, in the end the goal should be that wearer can >> determine the order of every texture layer, or at >> least to a great extend, including: >> - Tucking in jackets or not (jacket
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
...and then there's the pesky little truth that even if the viewer were completely closed source, unless the basic architecture of personal computer graphics processing across the industry is changed, and all of the current personal computer hardware is retired, it will be possible to rip content anyway on the client side, independent of any viewer software - as long as you have some skills and are determined. A lot of the issue is a red herring in many directions. Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Script memory limit vs server CPU utilization as a key metric
Many apologies if this has been discussed at length in a place that I've missed... I'm a bit baffled by the continuing strong focus on memory utilization of scripts rather than CPU load on the host servers. If (maybe I'm missing an important issue here) the issue is to avoid a resident or scripted item from causing performance problems on a region, wouldn't the relative CPU load imposed by that script be a critical item? I understand that if the total active memory size for a server goes above it's physical available RAM, then paging would increase and potentially create issues. Is there some objective analysis of servers with the Second Life simulator code on to show that they go into continuous swap mode in this case, or is it occasional "blips" of performance degradation on a slower interval? It seems to me that having continuing excessive CPU load would generate an on-going low simulator frame rate, which would be more frustrating than occasional hits from swapping. This line of thinking makes me wonder if a better metric for managing the user's perception of performance would be script CPU load rather than memory size. Thanks in advance, and again if this has already been addressed please feel free to point me at the thread so that I can read up. Best regards, Joel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
