Re: [Openstack] [Horizon] [UX] phabriactor/pholio as a possible UX option
On 2013/27/06 09:37, Thierry Carrez wrote: As a data point, Discourse could also be a solution: http://www.discourse.org/ It's clearly a discussion tool (including pretty advanced threading, post likes, etc.), and messages can contain images. See a design discussion for example at: http://test.ubuntu-discourse.org/t/a-ubuntu-ish-theme-for-the-site/177 Discourse actually looks pretty good. I was playing around that a little bit and like it. We can consider labels as categories - not optimal, but can work if we have only design discussions. Only problem is that we might want to extend the tool for other discussions as well and then it will be less optimal. Do you guys see any other possibilities apart from this one? -- Jarda ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] [Horizon] [UX] phabriactor/pholio as a possible UX option
Hi! I am very sorry for the late answer - I was really busy last week. Going back to this topic, answering inline: On 2013/26/06 23:05, Monty Taylor wrote: Hi! Thanks for looking in to Phabricator for us! The feedback is helpful. I think we've also got some concerns around elements of it as well. However, I still don't feel like I fully understand what the requirements list are here. github isn't a requirement, it's a suggested solution, and one with already distressing massive negative implications. so I'd like us to work on what requirements the tool needs to have so that we can figure out solutions that will solve them. Agree with you. So far, my understanding is that requirements are: - discussion Yes, very well handled discussions are #1. I'd also add few features which I'd love to see there if possible: * Great threading of discussions * Labels (E.g. label for closed discussion, or implementation discussion, or design proposals, etc) - so the users know what is happening in the thread * Formatting of messages (there might happen also implementation discussion above designed solution and I wouldn't be afraid of better formatting and letting these conversations happen there) - messages containing images +1, yes. - possibly specific image annotation/commenting Inline comments on images are not that necessary from my experience. Are there any others I've missed? * I think also important are well handled notifications. With features like e-mail/web based, watch/unwatch thread or similar functionality. * It might be indirect requirement, but I see very important that the tool is user-friendly for designers as well as developers. So I'd expect something not that much graphical, but very well organized and effective supporting all needs for both sides. - I guess designers (or creative people) are not that much demanding :). As long as it is not happening in Terminal and is well organized, I think they can get used to very easily. - For developers, I'd expect something not very graphic oriented/shiny, but more efficient and good possibility of formatting (e.g. for very short code examples). To summarize things we've learned so far about possible solutions: - Launchpad Bugs don't work due to lack of images - Phabricator is too image centric, and also confusing - github issues is not open source, and also increases confusion about OpenStack's use of github, and is not integrated with the rest of the project - mailing list is too text oriented and has a bad threading model OK, agree here. We've got folks working on the area - so let's figure out what we need and then we can move forward. Great, if there are folks who could help with finding best solution, they are very welcome! thanks! Monty [snip of replied message] Cheers -- Jarda ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] [Horizon] [UX] phabriactor/pholio as a possible UX option
Hey All, I investigated and played with few tools for team collaboration, mainly focused on designs and discussions. They are mostly similar as Phabricator [1], what Monty suggested. You can see inVision [2] or GoVisually [3] for example. And of course there are more, however they are all somehow similar. I have few notes which covers most of them (from my point of view): * I can't help myself, but I have disorganized feeling. - Might be only my problem, but the whole system navigation is just... Strange. Maybe too much graphical :) * Main focus on pictures. - You can't start a thread without picture. - It's just a little bit weird, if everything is focused on the picture, which from my point of view shouldn't be the main point. Pictures and other documents should be supportive material - discussion matters here. - Due on pictures focus, discussions are just somehow neglected. * I love the inline comments for pictures, but... - Having possibility to attach comment to any place of the picture is cool, but... still this tool will fail for example in sequence of screens, if you are presenting workflow. * Mainly - I don't see developers coming to this tool and actively ask discuss. Therefore, also thanks to comments from Toshi and Kyle, I tried to focus a little bit more on GitHub. I asked couple of colleagues and friends what would they prefer. From developers, the answer was obvious - GitHub. Designers said that they wouldn't mind GH, they are ok with it. Anyway, it's a normal discussion tool, nothing to be afraid of. The reasons why GitHub matters are already covered in my first e-mail and I still see it as the best possibility. Another reason for GitHub occurred in last conversation on G+ community site. There started thread about design question, which got solved, but then followed implementation discussion how to implement such thing. And here you can see, that any tool focusing on designers in the first place, would fail. I really don't want to discourage creative people from proposals and discussions - completely the opposite. I want them to connect to developers and vice versa. That's why I believe that GitHub worths trying. -- Jarda [1] http://www.invisionapp.com/ [2] http://www.invisionapp.com/ [3] http://www.govisually.com/ On 2013/19/06 03:49, Monty Taylor wrote: Hey all! I spoke with Gabriel about this briefly on IRC, but there is an app for Phabricator called Pholio which seems to do the things the UI folks are looking for. To play with it further, I've spun up a phabricator here: http://phab.mnorp.com/ You should have gotten account signup emails (if not, look in your spam folder - it's a throwaway machine) Check out: http://phab.mnorp.com/pholio/ I've put up one design review here: http://phab.mnorp.com/M1 that Jim and I have discussed a little bit. We're not thrilled with Phabricator for things like bug tracking or code review yet - but it's configurable enough that we could turn off everything except design review and move forward with that. Then, if we get to a point where more of its features are useful to us, then great - or if this winds up something we only ever use for design reviews - well, that's great too. David/Olaph - we'll need an OpenID SSO provider landed upstream before we can use this. (we are NOT going to carry local patches) There is an upstream auth refactor going on: https://secure.phabricator.com/T1536 Also, you'll see on http://phab.mnorp.com/M1 a lorem ipsum over to the side. We should finish that work. Then we'll need to do a proper puppet install and skinning. Don't anybody do work yet - mainly I want to see if this is suitable for the UI folks, and if we as the infra folks feel comfortable running one for pholio, and whether or not the potential slippery slope of possibly using more functions is something we'd be ok with in the future. Thanks for checking this out guys! Other things to look at if you get bored: I made an issue: http://phab.mnorp.com/T1 There is a calendar: http://phab.mnorp.com/calendar/ There is a not-terrible code browser: http://phab.mnorp.com/diffusion/ http://phab.mnorp.com/diffusion/HORIZON/ I particularly like blame being available: http://phab.mnorp.com/diffusion/HORIZON/browse/master/README.rst?view=blame And it's got github-like highlight: http://phab.mnorp.com/diffusion/HORIZON/browse/master/README.rst;f66e2730fd8f94a4$15-23 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] [Horizon] UX Discussions - proposal for better organization, rising activity and awareness
Hi Toshi, it's great to meet you and thanks for support. What you mentioned here is one of the issues: worse awareness of such an activity. Hopefully GH will enhance this (as well as the other issues). Apart from being among other projects, we can also help making it more visible with some note on OpenStack pages / Horizon Launchpad then. Anyway, the G+ community is at following address: https://plus.google.com/communities/100954512393463248122. If we agree here, I'd like to move to GH as soon as possible, so we have all discussions, proposals and materials archived there. Best -- Jarda On 2013/12/06 23:25, Toshiyuki Hayashi wrote: Hi Jarda, I'm Toshi, I'm also working on Horizon UI improvement (mainly network topology view). I totally agree with you. I've been wondering how to discuss the design ideas for Horizon, and I think we need some documents such as a design guideline to keep Horizon UI as a certain level of lookfeel and interactions. I believe your idea works very well for Horizon! BTW, I didn't know the Google+ community for Horizon. Could you please share the URL? On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Jaromir Coufal jcou...@redhat.com wrote: Hello Everybody! my name is Jarda (shortening from Jaromir) and I'm working on Horizon in a way of improvement the UX. Couple of weeks ago, there was set up community on Google+ to group UX related people to discuss designing issues. I think it was really great idea to start this effort and I love to see all people interested in helping Horizon being a better place. However, Google+ posts and discussions don't work very well for broader discussions about design issues, and I'd like to state here few examples of why I think so: - Comments are very narrow (worse readability, long comments are really bad supported). - Comments don't include images support. - There is no way where to store supportive materials. - Nobody knows what issues are resolved, what are still active. - No possibility to search for related topic (was this already discussed? Am I the first one to ask this?). - Notifications are also not from the best ones (activity of members just slipped down); not big awareness. ... and I have little bit more troubles with using it for design discussions. But long story short - I'd like to propose using GitHub for storing documentation and starting discussions related to UX of OpenStack (Horizon). In my opinion the best way to deal with UX in Horizon is to create a GitHub repository user_experience within OpenStack account, store related documentation in there and use GitHub Issues for discussions. Here are some benefits: * You can get subscribed to the repositoryor even just issue you are interested in, so you get notifications on your mail or just online (whatever works for you). * Issues are grouping topics very well together so the discussion for the topic stays at one place and everything is connected. * Once the issue is solved we can close it (and it is archived). * Issues have quite good options for text formatting. * You can past image directly to the post. * You can upload bigger temporary supportive materials to your forked repository. * The upstream repository itself can work as a good place to store UX documentations for Horizon (wireframes, documents, guides, etc). * What goes to the repository itself goes through pull-request process so we can make sure that there are ideas which were publicly discussed and accepted. Also, it provides better accessible way for any contributor, who is having some UX related issue. Since user_experience repository would be placed among other projects, it will be very easy to notice it and find this place if I need such a help. So, it is more likely, that we will increase activity and get more ideas together, also we enhance connecting developers and design people together, if both are contributing. I see UX as another project under OpenStack, though - sure - little bit different type of project, but still a project. And if we manage to get this project active we will definitely enhance resulting UX of Horizon, which is a goal. What do you think about this idea? Any thoughts? I'd be very happy to help with setting this up so it works smoothly. Best -- Jarda jcoufal at #openstack-horizon ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] [Horizon] UX Discussions - proposal for better organization, rising activity and awareness
Hello Everybody! my name is Jarda (shortening from Jaromir) and I'm working on Horizon in a way of improvement the UX. Couple of weeks ago, there was set up community on Google+ to group UX related people to discuss designing issues. I think it was really great idea to start this effort and I love to see all people interested in helping Horizon being a better place. However, Google+ posts and discussions don't work very well for broader discussions about design issues, and I'd like to state here few examples of why I think so: - Comments are very narrow (worse readability, long comments are really bad supported). - Comments don't include images support. - There is no way where to store supportive materials. - Nobody knows what issues are resolved, what are still active. - No possibility to search for related topic (was this already discussed? Am I the first one to ask this?). - Notifications are also not from the best ones (activity of members just slipped down); not big awareness. ... and I have little bit more troubles with using it for design discussions. But long story short - I'd like to propose using GitHub for storing documentation and starting discussions related to UX of OpenStack (Horizon). In my opinion the best way to deal with UX in Horizon is to create a GitHub repository user_experience within OpenStack account, store related documentation in there and use GitHub Issues for discussions. Here are some benefits: * You can get subscribed to the repositoryor even just issue you are interested in, so you get notifications on your mail or just online (whatever works for you). * Issues are grouping topics very well together so the discussion for the topic stays at one place and everything is connected. * Once the issue is solved we can close it (and it is archived). * Issues have quite good options for text formatting. * You can past image directly to the post. * You can upload bigger temporary supportive materials to your forked repository. * The upstream repository itself can work as a good place to store UX documentations for Horizon (wireframes, documents, guides, etc). * What goes to the repository itself goes through pull-request process so we can make sure that there are ideas which were publicly discussed and accepted. Also, it provides better accessible way for any contributor, who is having some UX related issue. Since user_experience repository would be placed among other projects, it will be very easy to notice it and find this place if I need such a help. So, it is more likely, that we will increase activity and get more ideas together, also we enhance connecting developers and design people together, if both are contributing. I see UX as another project under OpenStack, though - sure - little bit different type of project, but still a project. And if we manage to get this project active we will definitely enhance resulting UX of Horizon, which is a goal. What do you think about this idea? Any thoughts? I'd be very happy to help with setting this up so it works smoothly. Best -- Jarda jcoufal at #openstack-horizon ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
