Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Ihar Hrachyshka]

Andreas Scheuring  wrote:


Hi everybody,

I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
Provider network and a self service network. [1]

To summarize it says:
- Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
- Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)


But my understanding is more like this:
- Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
exactly matches this infrastructure.

- Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
configured accordingly.



I believe your understanding and wording is a lot more in line with  
reality. It also captures main differences, and does not mention advanced  
services that are not really relevant here.




Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
understanding just wrong?

Thanks!




[1]
http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/install-guide-rdo/overview.html#id4


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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Akihiro Motoki]

I agree that the current definition can be improved.

"Provider Network" vs "Self service network" highlights who can
provision a network.

In my understanding, "Provider Network" is a network provisioned by
the cloud operator. Practically the operator cannot provision a network
for a tenant, so a single provider network is shared by tenants.

On the other hand, "Self-service network" scenario allows OpenStack users
to provision their own networks.

In the scenario of "provider network", a single network is shared by
multiple tenants.
and network-related Neutron API calls should be disallowed for tenants.
It is reasonable to disallow tenants to provision routers, firewalls
or VPNs as well.
LBaaS can be used.

I hope this helps improve the text.

Akihiro


2016-01-19 16:33 GMT+09:00 Andreas Scheuring :
> Hi everybody,
>
> I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
> Provider network and a self service network. [1]
>
> To summarize it says:
> - Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
> and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
> - Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
> and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)
>
> But my understanding is more like this:
> - Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
> underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
> exactly matches this infrastructure.
>
> - Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
> without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
> network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
> configured accordingly.
>
>
> Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
> understanding just wrong?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/install-guide-rdo/overview.html#id4
>
>
> --
> -
> Andreas (IRC: scheuran)
>
>
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> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Jay Pipes]

On 01/19/2016 02:33 AM, Andreas Scheuring wrote:

Hi everybody,

I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
Provider network and a self service network. [1]

To summarize it says:
- Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
- Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)

But my understanding is more like this:
- Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
exactly matches this infrastructure.

- Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
configured accordingly.

Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
understanding just wrong?


I don't know the answer to the above questions, however in reading some 
of the networking guide last night, I ran into a similar question around 
provider networks.


In the "Scenario: Provider Networks with Linux bridge" document [0], the 
second paragraph has this statement:


"Also, provider networks lack the concept of fixed and floating IP 
addresses because they only handle layer-2 connectivity for instances."


and then, three paragraphs later, this statement is made:

"To improve performance and reliability, provider networks move layer-3 
operations to the physical network infrastructure."


So, which is it exactly? Do provider networks handle layer 3 or don't they?

Best,
-jay

[0] 
http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/networking-guide/scenario_provider_lb.html


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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Bogdan Dobrelya]

On 19.01.2016 15:31, Bogdan Dobrelya wrote:
> On 19.01.2016 15:19, Akihiro Motoki wrote:
>> I agree that the current definition can be improved.
> 
> Here is a docs bug [0]
> 
> [0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1513421

I pasted a wrong link, sorry. Here is the correct one [0]

[0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1535744

> 
>>
>> "Provider Network" vs "Self service network" highlights who can
>> provision a network.
>>
>> In my understanding, "Provider Network" is a network provisioned by
>> the cloud operator. Practically the operator cannot provision a network
>> for a tenant, so a single provider network is shared by tenants.
>>
>> On the other hand, "Self-service network" scenario allows OpenStack users
>> to provision their own networks.
>>
>> In the scenario of "provider network", a single network is shared by
>> multiple tenants.
>> and network-related Neutron API calls should be disallowed for tenants.
>> It is reasonable to disallow tenants to provision routers, firewalls
>> or VPNs as well.
>> LBaaS can be used.
>>
>> I hope this helps improve the text.
>>
>> Akihiro
>>
>>
>> 2016-01-19 16:33 GMT+09:00 Andreas Scheuring :
>>> Hi everybody,
>>>
>>> I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
>>> Provider network and a self service network. [1]
>>>
>>> To summarize it says:
>>> - Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
>>> and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
>>> - Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
>>> and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)
>>>
>>> But my understanding is more like this:
>>> - Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
>>> underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
>>> exactly matches this infrastructure.
>>>
>>> - Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
>>> without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
>>> network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
>>> configured accordingly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
>>> understanding just wrong?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/install-guide-rdo/overview.html#id4
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -
>>> Andreas (IRC: scheuran)
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>
>> __
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>>
> 
> 


-- 
Best regards,
Bogdan Dobrelya,
Irc #bogdando

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Bogdan Dobrelya]

On 19.01.2016 15:19, Akihiro Motoki wrote:
> I agree that the current definition can be improved.

Here is a docs bug [0]

[0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1513421

> 
> "Provider Network" vs "Self service network" highlights who can
> provision a network.
> 
> In my understanding, "Provider Network" is a network provisioned by
> the cloud operator. Practically the operator cannot provision a network
> for a tenant, so a single provider network is shared by tenants.
> 
> On the other hand, "Self-service network" scenario allows OpenStack users
> to provision their own networks.
> 
> In the scenario of "provider network", a single network is shared by
> multiple tenants.
> and network-related Neutron API calls should be disallowed for tenants.
> It is reasonable to disallow tenants to provision routers, firewalls
> or VPNs as well.
> LBaaS can be used.
> 
> I hope this helps improve the text.
> 
> Akihiro
> 
> 
> 2016-01-19 16:33 GMT+09:00 Andreas Scheuring :
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
>> Provider network and a self service network. [1]
>>
>> To summarize it says:
>> - Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
>> and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
>> - Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
>> and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)
>>
>> But my understanding is more like this:
>> - Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
>> underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
>> exactly matches this infrastructure.
>>
>> - Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
>> without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
>> network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
>> configured accordingly.
>>
>>
>> Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
>> understanding just wrong?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/install-guide-rdo/overview.html#id4
>>
>>
>> --
>> -
>> Andreas (IRC: scheuran)
>>
>>
>> __
>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> 
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-- 
Best regards,
Bogdan Dobrelya,
Irc #bogdando

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Kevin Benton]

Yes, that definitely needs to be cleaned up a bit as well. Provider
networks still provide IP addresses, it's just that Neutron normally isn't
responsible for providing L3 routing for them.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Jay Pipes  wrote:

> On 01/19/2016 02:33 AM, Andreas Scheuring wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
>> Provider network and a self service network. [1]
>>
>> To summarize it says:
>> - Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
>> and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
>> - Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
>> and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)
>>
>> But my understanding is more like this:
>> - Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
>> underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
>> exactly matches this infrastructure.
>>
>> - Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
>> without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
>> network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
>> configured accordingly.
>>
>> Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
>> understanding just wrong?
>>
>
> I don't know the answer to the above questions, however in reading some of
> the networking guide last night, I ran into a similar question around
> provider networks.
>
> In the "Scenario: Provider Networks with Linux bridge" document [0], the
> second paragraph has this statement:
>
> "Also, provider networks lack the concept of fixed and floating IP
> addresses because they only handle layer-2 connectivity for instances."
>
> and then, three paragraphs later, this statement is made:
>
> "To improve performance and reliability, provider networks move layer-3
> operations to the physical network infrastructure."
>
> So, which is it exactly? Do provider networks handle layer 3 or don't they?
>
> Best,
> -jay
>
> [0]
> http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/networking-guide/scenario_provider_lb.html
>
>
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>



-- 
Kevin Benton
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[openstack-dev] [Neutron] [Docs] Definition of a provider Network

[Andreas Scheuring]

Hi everybody, 

I stumbled over a definition that explains the difference between a
Provider network and a self service network. [1] 

To summarize it says:
- Provider Network: primarily uses layer2 services and vlan segmentation
and cannot be used for advanced services (fwaas,..)
- Self-service Network: is Neutron configured to use a overlay network
and supports advanced services (fwaas,..)


But my understanding is more like this:
- Provider Network: The Openstack user needs information about the
underlying network infrastructure to create a virtual network that
exactly matches this infrastructure. 

- Self service network: The Openstack user can create virtual networks
without knowledge about the underlaying infrastructure on the data
network. This can also include vlan networks, if the l2 plugin/agent was
configured accordingly.


Did the meaning of a provider network change in the meantime, or is my
understanding just wrong?

Thanks!




[1]
http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/install-guide-rdo/overview.html#id4


-- 
-
Andreas (IRC: scheuran)


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