Re: [openstack-dev] [UX] Proposed tools and workflows for OpenStack User Experience contributors
Thanks all for great feedback, I will try to do a short summary: Wiki Wiki page is obvious and easy consensus for us. It should contain all important information about UX, such as "how to contribute", "where to go to start", various links, etc. Mailing list - [UX] --- Everybody agrees that discussions should happen on the mailing list with [UX] tag in the subject. There is no consensus if the discussion should be just general or detailed as well. (We should continue this discussion in separate thread) Discussion forum - (terminate) -- It's agreed that AskBot doesn't work very well - it is a bit chaotic and also big problem is disconnection from the rest of OpenStack teams. It was suggested to search for another solution (also no consensus on which one). IRC meetings Very welcome from everybody. Launchpad (StoryBoard in the future) Also welcome, until StoryBoard is ready for us, we should keep track of BPs and bugs in Launchpad and document how to work with it. Wishlist (currently Launchpad) -- Seems like nice idea. We should figure out what would be the best way to provide this list, but it might be as simple as registering new bug or blueprint in UX's Launchpad (at least from the beginning). Storage place (GitHUb) -- We should do research on what tool would be useful for us. GitHub (or OpenStack's git repository) can work with combination of gerrit. It looks that we should at least give it a try. Templates library - Yes, could be stored at the same place as other materials, just marked and linked properly. ??? (user community for feedback gathering) --- Needs more research - still trying to figure out where and how the best connect with the user community. So mostly we agreed on all suggested tools which makes me very happy. I will start setting up the obvious ones and for the rest (+controversial), I am going to start separate threads, where we can discuss in more details and follow up at Summit. Thank you all for your feedback, you will hear from me soon -- Jarda ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [UX] Proposed tools and workflows for OpenStack User Experience contributors
Hi, Thank you for coming up this topics. It is a big step to going forward for OpenStack UX process. (It's been a while to post to ML, I'm kinda hesitating.., haha) >>> Wiki +1 Mailing list - [UX] +1, for the general discussion, it would be the one on the best way to communicate to the community people. >>> Discussion forum - (terminate) Although Askbot doesn't work well, but as Jacki said, I think ml wouldn't work well for all of UX discussion. Like gerrit is used for code review, It is better to have another discussion tool for the detail UI/UX design discussion. At least Google+ worked well compared to Askbot. I thought StoryBoard will be the tool, won't it? >>> IRC meetings Big +1 for this. It's gonna help to keep everyone on the same page. Also it is important to put up the UX activity. >>> Launchpad (StoryBoard in the future) and Wishlist (currently Launchpad) +1 >>> Storage place (GitHUb) and Templates library I think these two things can be same, what the deference? Also I like this idea to use Github, it is easy to track the activity, and recently many design guys are used to use it. Thanks again for bring up this topic! Regards, Toshi On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Jacki Bauer wrote: > Thanks for starting this conversation. It's really important and there's a > ton of work to be done! > > > On Apr 23, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Liz Blanchard wrote: > >> >> On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Jaromir Coufal wrote: >> >>> Dear OpenStack UX community and everybody else who is interested in >>> OpenStack's user experience, >>> >> >> Thanks very much for taking the time to write this up, Jarda. I think this >> would be an awesome list of topics to cover in the User Experience >> cross-project sessions scheduled for the Summit on Tuesday afternoon. What >> do others think? I'll also add some thoughts below to start to drive the >> conversation further on this list. >> >>> When there is more contributors appearing in time, I would like us to >>> establish a formal process of how the UX work should be organized. >>> Therefore I am suggesting a few tools below for us to be more effective, >>> transparent and to provide a single way to all contributors so that it is >>> easy for everybody to start, to contribute and to get oriented in our world. >>> >>> >>> Wiki >>> >>> = introduction to OpenStack User Experience >>> = how to contribute guide >>> = documentation of processes >>> = redirecting people to the right places of their interest (IRC, Launchpad, >>> etc) >> >> +1. It would be awesome to include some basics about using the mailing list >> for communication along with IRC and how to balance the two. > > +1 > >> >>> >>> Mailing list - [UX] >>> --- >>> = discussions about various issues >>> = openstack-dev mailing list, using [UX] tag in the subject >>> "+" brings more attention to the UX issues >>> "+" not separated from other OpenStack's projects >>> "+" threading is already there (e-mail clients) >>> "+" no need for setting up and maintaining additional server to run our own >>> forum >>> "-" requires to store attachments somewhere else (some other server) >>> ... similar case with current askbot anyway >>> "-" requires contributors to register to the openstack-dev mailing list >>> ... each contributor should do that anyway >> >> A big +1 to this. Currently there is a mailing list called >> openstack-personas that has been meant just for the persona effort, but I've >> been trying to get folks who have been involved in that effort to be sure to >> subscribe to this list and start generating any conversations that are pure >> UX here on the dev list instead of that personas mailing list. The personas >> mailing list was really just meant to kick off all of the work that would be >> done and then we'd bring high level details to this list anyways. Having >> more or less all UX conversations in one place makes way more sense to me. > > There are a lot of discussions on the persona list that I don't think belong > on dev - things like the logistics of planning user research, methodologies > and so on. There will also be discussions that require feedback from > designers, but would really confuse devs (designs in early stages). One > negative impact of using the dev list is that the content we want devs to > respond to - research results, designs in later stages,etc - might be ignored > or missed because of the other 'noise'. Could we use the dev list for > anything we want wider community feedback on, and use another tool (ux > mailing list, invision, something else) for the rest of the conversations? > >> >>> >>> Discussion forum - (terminate) >>> -- >>> "+" more interactive >>> "+" easier for newcomers >>> "-" separating UX outside the OpenStack world >>> "-" we haven't found any other suitable tool for discussions yet (current >>> AskBot is not doing very well) >>> -> in order not to fragment discussions into multiple
Re: [openstack-dev] [UX] Proposed tools and workflows for OpenStack User Experience contributors
Thanks for starting this conversation. It’s really important and there’s a ton of work to be done! On Apr 23, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Liz Blanchard wrote: > > On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Jaromir Coufal wrote: > >> Dear OpenStack UX community and everybody else who is interested in >> OpenStack's user experience, >> > > Thanks very much for taking the time to write this up, Jarda. I think this > would be an awesome list of topics to cover in the User Experience > cross-project sessions scheduled for the Summit on Tuesday afternoon. What do > others think? I’ll also add some thoughts below to start to drive the > conversation further on this list. > >> When there is more contributors appearing in time, I would like us to >> establish a formal process of how the UX work should be organized. Therefore >> I am suggesting a few tools below for us to be more effective, transparent >> and to provide a single way to all contributors so that it is easy for >> everybody to start, to contribute and to get oriented in our world. >> >> >> Wiki >> >> = introduction to OpenStack User Experience >> = how to contribute guide >> = documentation of processes >> = redirecting people to the right places of their interest (IRC, Launchpad, >> etc) > > +1. It would be awesome to include some basics about using the mailing list > for communication along with IRC and how to balance the two. +1 > >> >> Mailing list - [UX] >> --- >> = discussions about various issues >> = openstack-dev mailing list, using [UX] tag in the subject >> "+" brings more attention to the UX issues >> "+" not separated from other OpenStack's projects >> "+" threading is already there (e-mail clients) >> "+" no need for setting up and maintaining additional server to run our own >> forum >> "-" requires to store attachments somewhere else (some other server) >> ... similar case with current askbot anyway >> "-" requires contributors to register to the openstack-dev mailing list >> ... each contributor should do that anyway > > A big +1 to this. Currently there is a mailing list called openstack-personas > that has been meant just for the persona effort, but I’ve been trying to get > folks who have been involved in that effort to be sure to subscribe to this > list and start generating any conversations that are pure UX here on the dev > list instead of that personas mailing list. The personas mailing list was > really just meant to kick off all of the work that would be done and then > we’d bring high level details to this list anyways. Having more or less all > UX conversations in one place makes way more sense to me. There are a lot of discussions on the persona list that I don’t think belong on dev - things like the logistics of planning user research, methodologies and so on. There will also be discussions that require feedback from designers, but would really confuse devs (designs in early stages). One negative impact of using the dev list is that the content we want devs to respond to - research results, designs in later stages,etc - might be ignored or missed because of the other ’noise'. Could we use the dev list for anything we want wider community feedback on, and use another tool (ux mailing list, invision, something else) for the rest of the conversations? > >> >> Discussion forum - (terminate) >> -- >> "+" more interactive >> "+" easier for newcomers >> "-" separating UX outside the OpenStack world >> "-" we haven't found any other suitable tool for discussions yet (current >> AskBot is not doing very well) >> -> in order not to fragment discussions into multiple places, I am >> suggesting termination of current AskBot and keeping discussions in mailing >> list > > Another idea would be to use the general OpenStack Askbot, but I agree it is > yet another place to go to review things and the current way of using Askbot > has been difficult to keep up with and follow active discussions. +1 to > finding a way to use the mailing list efficiently for design reviews. > > I’ve found that having a way to leave comments right inline on a design has > been very helpful. Jacki and I have been using a tool called “Invision” to > share our designs back and forth to get each others feedback and it has been > great. I think there is also a tool called Review Board that is open source. > Could be worth checking that out as a discussion tool? No matter what, we > should work this into the Mailing List too so that folks know when feedback > has been given. Agree the discussion forum isn’t working but not sure what to do about it. I don’t think the mailing list is a solution because designers need the ability to read through the history of an issue or project, and to link many related topics together into something easily digested. And some of our work starts and stops over many months, so the mailing list would be really hard to use for this purpos
Re: [openstack-dev] [UX] Proposed tools and workflows for OpenStack User Experience contributors
Hi Liz and Jarda, Very happy to see this discussion happen! We regularly have people show up who are interested in helping to improve the Horizon UX and it's good to know where to direct them for more information. Great job with the wiki! On 23/04/14 15:46, Liz Blanchard wrote: > On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Jaromir Coufal > wrote: >> Mailing list - [UX] --- = discussions about various >> issues = openstack-dev mailing list, using [UX] tag in the subject >> "+" brings more attention to the UX issues "+" not separated from >> other OpenStack's projects "+" threading is already there (e-mail >> clients) "+" no need for setting up and maintaining additional >> server to run our own forum "-" requires to store attachments >> somewhere else (some other server) ... similar case with current >> askbot anyway "-" requires contributors to register to the >> openstack-dev mailing list ... each contributor should do that >> anyway > > A big +1 to this. Currently there is a mailing list called > openstack-personas that has been meant just for the persona effort, > but I’ve been trying to get folks who have been involved in that > effort to be sure to subscribe to this list and start generating any > conversations that are pure UX here on the dev list instead of that > personas mailing list. The personas mailing list was really just > meant to kick off all of the work that would be done and then we’d > bring high level details to this list anyways. Having more or less > all UX conversations in one place makes way more sense to me. I also think it would be good to have the discussions on the dev list to help with the problem of "much less visibility when taking the conversation elsewhere". Could the personas list perhaps be deleted now and the work around it continue on the dev list as well? (Probably at the same time as providing advice on filtering!) >> Discussion forum - (terminate) -- "+" >> more interactive "+" easier for newcomers "-" separating UX outside >> the OpenStack world "-" we haven't found any other suitable tool >> for discussions yet (current AskBot is not doing very well) -> in >> order not to fragment discussions into multiple places, I am >> suggesting termination of current AskBot and keeping discussions in >> mailing list > > Another idea would be to use the general OpenStack Askbot, but I > agree it is yet another place to go to review things and the current > way of using Askbot has been difficult to keep up with and follow > active discussions. +1 to finding a way to use the mailing list > efficiently for design reviews. I don't think the general AskBot would be appropriate to use for this, it has a very different goal (user troubleshooting) as opposed to being a tool to help with future development. On Ask UX, I found it difficult to understand the status of older questions that seem resolved (but actually aren't) and not implemented yet, I would welcome a better way to understand e.g. the current status of the Horizon IA work. Perhaps a wiki page that summarises a discussion would help, at the end of a ML conversation...? Definitely the Launchpad blueprints / bugs around UX issues should include a reference to the related ML discussion. >> IRC meetings = regular meetings, each 2-3 weeks, short >> meeting, mostly dealing with organizational stuff and bringing >> attention on hot topics "+" brings people together "+" helps with >> UX organization "-" requires people to make a time for it ... >> should be short though, so it shouldn't be big deal > > Again, a huge +1 from me. I think this is the biggest thing that we > are missing as a UX community. It will definitely help with > organization and communication on who is actively working on what. > Agreed they should be short and shouldn’t be a big time commitment to > those who are active in UX in the community. I agree this would be very helpful. When Horizon started having regular meetings, it really helped with building a stronger sense of community. Definitely worth experimenting with! >> Wishlist (currently Launchpad) -- = >> list of areas where other projects need a help from UX and UX >> person can take tasks "+" easy way of other teams how to interact >> with UX team when they look for a help "+" easy way for UXers to >> see areas where is a need for help > > +1. There could also be a section on the wiki describing the process > of contacting the UX team around work that is needed for components > and adding items to the launchpad list. +1 to clearly defining how to ask for UX help and advice, whatever it ends up being :) >> Storage place (GitHUb) -- = server where we can >> store temporary materials as well as final solutions -> github for >> permanent solutions (guidelines, final designs, …)? > > I like this idea. I think we just need to try it out like we did with > AskBot and see how it goes. How will GitHub hand
Re: [openstack-dev] [UX] Proposed tools and workflows for OpenStack User Experience contributors
On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Jaromir Coufal wrote: > Dear OpenStack UX community and everybody else who is interested in > OpenStack's user experience, > Thanks very much for taking the time to write this up, Jarda. I think this would be an awesome list of topics to cover in the User Experience cross-project sessions scheduled for the Summit on Tuesday afternoon. What do others think? I’ll also add some thoughts below to start to drive the conversation further on this list. > When there is more contributors appearing in time, I would like us to > establish a formal process of how the UX work should be organized. Therefore > I am suggesting a few tools below for us to be more effective, transparent > and to provide a single way to all contributors so that it is easy for > everybody to start, to contribute and to get oriented in our world. > > > Wiki > > = introduction to OpenStack User Experience > = how to contribute guide > = documentation of processes > = redirecting people to the right places of their interest (IRC, Launchpad, > etc) +1. It would be awesome to include some basics about using the mailing list for communication along with IRC and how to balance the two. > > Mailing list - [UX] > --- > = discussions about various issues > = openstack-dev mailing list, using [UX] tag in the subject > "+" brings more attention to the UX issues > "+" not separated from other OpenStack's projects > "+" threading is already there (e-mail clients) > "+" no need for setting up and maintaining additional server to run our own > forum > "-" requires to store attachments somewhere else (some other server) >... similar case with current askbot anyway > "-" requires contributors to register to the openstack-dev mailing list >... each contributor should do that anyway A big +1 to this. Currently there is a mailing list called openstack-personas that has been meant just for the persona effort, but I’ve been trying to get folks who have been involved in that effort to be sure to subscribe to this list and start generating any conversations that are pure UX here on the dev list instead of that personas mailing list. The personas mailing list was really just meant to kick off all of the work that would be done and then we’d bring high level details to this list anyways. Having more or less all UX conversations in one place makes way more sense to me. > > Discussion forum - (terminate) > -- > "+" more interactive > "+" easier for newcomers > "-" separating UX outside the OpenStack world > "-" we haven't found any other suitable tool for discussions yet (current > AskBot is not doing very well) > -> in order not to fragment discussions into multiple places, I am suggesting > termination of current AskBot and keeping discussions in mailing list Another idea would be to use the general OpenStack Askbot, but I agree it is yet another place to go to review things and the current way of using Askbot has been difficult to keep up with and follow active discussions. +1 to finding a way to use the mailing list efficiently for design reviews. I’ve found that having a way to leave comments right inline on a design has been very helpful. Jacki and I have been using a tool called “Invision” to share our designs back and forth to get each others feedback and it has been great. I think there is also a tool called Review Board that is open source. Could be worth checking that out as a discussion tool? No matter what, we should work this into the Mailing List too so that folks know when feedback has been given. > > IRC meetings > > = regular meetings, each 2-3 weeks, short meeting, mostly dealing with > organizational stuff and bringing attention on hot topics > "+" brings people together > "+" helps with UX organization > "-" requires people to make a time for it >... should be short though, so it shouldn't be big deal Again, a huge +1 from me. I think this is the biggest thing that we are missing as a UX community. It will definitely help with organization and communication on who is actively working on what. Agreed they should be short and shouldn’t be a big time commitment to those who are active in UX in the community. > > Launchpad (StoryBoard in the future) > > = organization of UX work, overview of who is working on what, prioritizing > stories, etc. > "+" helps organizing work > "+" helps documenting UX efforts > "-" requires maintenance >... the same way as for any other program We need to figure out how our Launchpad blueprints relate to development blueprints. Maybe within StoryBoard there will be a way to link these in the future? I’ve worked on projects in the past using an Agile tool that allowed “predecessors” so the dev team knew that a design story was still being worked on and they would be notified when the design was ready for the implementation
[openstack-dev] [UX] Proposed tools and workflows for OpenStack User Experience contributors
Dear OpenStack UX community and everybody else who is interested in OpenStack's user experience, When there is more contributors appearing in time, I would like us to establish a formal process of how the UX work should be organized. Therefore I am suggesting a few tools below for us to be more effective, transparent and to provide a single way to all contributors so that it is easy for everybody to start, to contribute and to get oriented in our world. Wiki = introduction to OpenStack User Experience = how to contribute guide = documentation of processes = redirecting people to the right places of their interest (IRC, Launchpad, etc) Mailing list - [UX] --- = discussions about various issues = openstack-dev mailing list, using [UX] tag in the subject "+" brings more attention to the UX issues "+" not separated from other OpenStack's projects "+" threading is already there (e-mail clients) "+" no need for setting up and maintaining additional server to run our own forum "-" requires to store attachments somewhere else (some other server) ... similar case with current askbot anyway "-" requires contributors to register to the openstack-dev mailing list ... each contributor should do that anyway Discussion forum - (terminate) -- "+" more interactive "+" easier for newcomers "-" separating UX outside the OpenStack world "-" we haven't found any other suitable tool for discussions yet (current AskBot is not doing very well) -> in order not to fragment discussions into multiple places, I am suggesting termination of current AskBot and keeping discussions in mailing list IRC meetings = regular meetings, each 2-3 weeks, short meeting, mostly dealing with organizational stuff and bringing attention on hot topics "+" brings people together "+" helps with UX organization "-" requires people to make a time for it ... should be short though, so it shouldn't be big deal Launchpad (StoryBoard in the future) = organization of UX work, overview of who is working on what, prioritizing stories, etc. "+" helps organizing work "+" helps documenting UX efforts "-" requires maintenance ... the same way as for any other program Wishlist (currently Launchpad) -- = list of areas where other projects need a help from UX and UX person can take tasks "+" easy way of other teams how to interact with UX team when they look for a help "+" easy way for UXers to see areas where is a need for help Storage place (GitHUb) -- = server where we can store temporary materials as well as final solutions -> github for permanent solutions (guidelines, final designs, ...)? Templates library - = library containing pre-prepared templates for UI designs (ready to use already designed elements, etc) "+" helps designers to produce designs easier by applying copy&paste methodology in the templates ... Should contain wireframes as well as visual designed elements ... Should be available for multiple applications (InDesign, Inkscape, etc) ??? (user community for feedback gathering) --- = tool for grouping people who are willing to give feedback on current UX in OpenStack I am looking forward to hearing back from you with your feedback and opinions. If it seems to you like a good overview of how things can work, I will be happy to break it down into smaller pieces and make it happen so that we can start using all these tools as soon as possible. Thank you all -- Jarda ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
