Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Waines, Greg wrote: > i am now thinking that perhaps i am thinking of a USE CASE that is NOT the > typical IRONIC USE CASE. \o/ > i.e. > > I think the ‘typical’ IRONIC USE CASE is that there are a pool of physical > servers > that are available to run requested Instances/Images on. > > > However, > > the USE CASE that i am thinking of is where there are ‘DEDICATED’ physical > servers > > deployed for specific purposes where I was thinking of using IRONIC to > manage the Images running on these servers. > > ( This is for say a Industrial / Control type scenario ) > > ( It’s sort of using IRONIC as simply a generic boot server ... of bare > metal servers ) As it stands, your assessment of the typical use case is correct. But at the same time, we do and have seen some operators directly use ironic to deploy dedicated servers, in either a directly orchestrated against ironic's API process. Largely the use cases have been managed services/lab environments in data centers where machines may need to be rebuilt or redeployed fairly often. I believe it would be possible, at least conceptually with power control, as ironic expects to check and be able to assert power control state. Part of this behavior can be disabled, or human driven with a button push, but from experience, it is much easier to be able to remotely tell something to cycle power. Operating with-in Ironic's management framework without modifying the process or concepts, I guess in an industrial/controls scenario, we would likely end up with some sort of PLC integrated power driver, with enough configuration for each baremetal node to potentially control power. The closest thing we have to that right now is an SNMP power driver (https://docs.openstack.org/ironic/pike/admin/drivers/snmp.html). The SNMP power driver is intended for use with power distribution units where the outlet's power can be turned on/off remotely. > Any comments on whether it makes sense to do this with Ironic ? I think it comes down to the needs as it relates to automating such a deployment process, or possibly more clearly defining the deployment process as you would see. > Is there an alternative OpenStack project to do this sort of thing ? People do use bifrost to build a standalone ironic installation to kind of do things along these lines. Bifrost is not intended to be for long-lived management of machines, but it does now support hooking up keystone as well, so it could be a nice happy median, and we're always happy to accept patches to bifrost that solves someone's problem. > ( in my use case, the end user is already using OpenStack in a traditional > sense for > VMs on compute nodes ... but would like to extend the solution to manage > images > on bare metal servers ) Totally viable, either with or without nova, depending on the process that needs to be fulfilled. One thing worth noting with baremetal hardware is the security implications that do exist. Ironic's API is built around the concept that the user is not a normal user, but an administrative user. I'd personally love to change that with time, but it is far from a simple undertaking in a generic sense. Going back to the previous question of reset functions and, ironic actually turns the power off, and then back on to perform a reset. With cases like wake-on-lan, there is nothing that can be done. I believe that driver might just not attempt to do anything, hence my comment about maybe some sort of PLC power driver, or perhaps the SNMP driver. As for is anything deployed immediately upon enroll, ironic presently does not do that as it expects you to step through the state machine so the node passes through cleaning. If your hardware or use case does not need or require cleaning, then you can run through the process quite quickly with a script or an ansible playbook (which is exactly what bifrost does for CI testing) Hope this helps! -Julia __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers
Good question about how the smaller devices have their power managed. Actually stepping back a bit, i am now thinking that perhaps i am thinking of a USE CASE that is NOT the typical IRONIC USE CASE. i.e. I think the ‘typical’ IRONIC USE CASE is that there are a pool of physical servers that are available to run requested Instances/Images on. However, the USE CASE that i am thinking of is where there are ‘DEDICATED’ physical servers deployed for specific purposes where I was thinking of using IRONIC to manage the Images running on these servers. ( This is for say a Industrial / Control type scenario ) ( It’s sort of using IRONIC as simply a generic boot server ... of bare metal servers ) Any comments on whether it makes sense to do this with Ironic ? Is there an alternative OpenStack project to do this sort of thing ? ( in my use case, the end user is already using OpenStack in a traditional sense for VMs on compute nodes ... but would like to extend the solution to manage images on bare metal servers ) Comments ? Greg. From: Ilya Etingof Organization: Red Hat Inc. Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 11:37 AM To: "openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" , Greg Waines Cc: "Nasir, Shoaib" Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers Hi Greg, How do these smaller devices allow you to manage their power state? Typically you have a side-computer (AKA bare-metal controller) which is always up so you can talk to it (via IPMI/Redfish/SNMP/ssh) to manage power state of its big brother. The pxe_ssh driver is about libvirt VMs simulating bare-metal nodes. I am not sure this is what you need. Also, pxe_ssh driver is obsoleted by the virtualbmc proxy by now. On 11/21/2017 05:22 PM, Waines, Greg wrote: Hey, We have been integrating OpenStack Ironic into our own OpenStack Distribution. Thanks to help from the mailing list, we’ve been able to successfully ‘nova boot’ a bare metal instance on an ironic node using the pxe_ipmitool drivers. Thanks again for all the help. A QUESTION about some future work we are starting to look at. We are interested in using Ironic to boot smaller devices that do NOT support IPMI. I believe that there are other drivers such as pxe_ssh for managing resets and power on/off of such servers. But i don’t understand how these work at a high-level. e.g. - where do the pxe_ssh drivers SSH to ? > for reset, i suppose it could be the ironic node itself (if it’s actually running a load, like the deployment image) > but for power on/off ... it can’t be the ironic node itself Can somebody provide or point me to a brief explanation of how Ironic can be used for serving loads to devices NOT supporting IPMI ? thanks in advance, Greg __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org>?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers
Aah that’s an interesting idea, using the wake-on-lan technology to solve the problem of how to power on the server without IPMI. So how does the solution solve the power-off and reset functions ? i.e. · is the deployment image (with IPA) deployed on the ironic node as soon as it is enrolled ? i.e. in order to manage these operations ? ( as well as configure the wake-on-lan hardware ? ) Greg. From: Lukas Bezdicka Reply-To: "openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 11:28 AM To: "openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" Cc: "Nasir, Shoaib" Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers This is issue I hit recently. There are staging drivers [1] and there is virtualbmc [2] to emulate ipmi for virtual machines. I ended up using pxe_wol_isci driver. [1] - http://ironic-staging-drivers.readthedocs.io/en/latest/README.html [2] - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualbmc/1.2.0 On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Waines, Greg mailto:greg.wai...@windriver.com>> wrote: Hey, We have been integrating OpenStack Ironic into our own OpenStack Distribution. Thanks to help from the mailing list, we’ve been able to successfully ‘nova boot’ a bare metal instance on an ironic node using the pxe_ipmitool drivers. Thanks again for all the help. A QUESTION about some future work we are starting to look at. We are interested in using Ironic to boot smaller devices that do NOT support IPMI. I believe that there are other drivers such as pxe_ssh for managing resets and power on/off of such servers. But i don’t understand how these work at a high-level. e.g. - where do the pxe_ssh drivers SSH to ? > for reset, i suppose it could be the ironic node itself (if it’s actually running a load, like the deployment image) > but for power on/off ... it can’t be the ironic node itself Can somebody provide or point me to a brief explanation of how Ironic can be used for serving loads to devices NOT supporting IPMI ? thanks in advance, Greg __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe<http://openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers
Hi Greg, How do these smaller devices allow you to manage their power state? Typically you have a side-computer (AKA bare-metal controller) which is always up so you can talk to it (via IPMI/Redfish/SNMP/ssh) to manage power state of its big brother. The pxe_ssh driver is about libvirt VMs simulating bare-metal nodes. I am not sure this is what you need. Also, pxe_ssh driver is obsoleted by the virtualbmc proxy by now. On 11/21/2017 05:22 PM, Waines, Greg wrote: > Hey, > > > > We have been integrating OpenStack Ironic into our own OpenStack > Distribution. > > Thanks to help from the mailing list, we’ve been able to successfully > ‘nova boot’ a bare metal instance on an ironic node using the > pxe_ipmitool drivers. > > Thanks again for all the help. > > > > A QUESTION about some future work we are starting to look at. > > > > We are interested in using Ironic to boot smaller devices that do NOT > support IPMI. > > > > I believe that there are other drivers such as pxe_ssh for managing > resets and power on/off of such servers. > But i don’t understand how these work at a high-level. > > e.g. > > - where do the pxe_ssh drivers SSH to ? > > > for reset, i suppose it could be the ironic node itself (if > it’s actually running a load, like the deployment image) > > > but for power on/off ... it can’t be the ironic node itself > > > > Can somebody provide or point me to a brief explanation of how Ironic > can be used for > serving loads to devices NOT supporting IPMI ? > > > > thanks in advance, > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers
This is issue I hit recently. There are staging drivers [1] and there is virtualbmc [2] to emulate ipmi for virtual machines. I ended up using pxe_wol_isci driver. [1] - http://ironic-staging-drivers.readthedocs.io/en/latest/README.html [2] - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualbmc/1.2.0 On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Waines, Greg wrote: > Hey, > > > > We have been integrating OpenStack Ironic into our own OpenStack > Distribution. > > Thanks to help from the mailing list, we’ve been able to successfully > ‘nova boot’ a bare metal instance on an ironic node using the pxe_ipmitool > drivers. > > Thanks again for all the help. > > > > A QUESTION about some future work we are starting to look at. > > > > We are interested in using Ironic to boot smaller devices that do NOT > support IPMI. > > > > I believe that there are other drivers such as pxe_ssh for managing resets > and power on/off of such servers. > But i don’t understand how these work at a high-level. > > e.g. > > - where do the pxe_ssh drivers SSH to ? > > > for reset, i suppose it could be the ironic node itself (if it’s > actually running a load, like the deployment image) > > > but for power on/off ... it can’t be the ironic node itself > > > > Can somebody provide or point me to a brief explanation of how Ironic can > be used for > serving loads to devices NOT supporting IPMI ? > > > > thanks in advance, > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > __ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] [ironic] Question about pxe_ssh drivers
Hey, We have been integrating OpenStack Ironic into our own OpenStack Distribution. Thanks to help from the mailing list, we’ve been able to successfully ‘nova boot’ a bare metal instance on an ironic node using the pxe_ipmitool drivers. Thanks again for all the help. A QUESTION about some future work we are starting to look at. We are interested in using Ironic to boot smaller devices that do NOT support IPMI. I believe that there are other drivers such as pxe_ssh for managing resets and power on/off of such servers. But i don’t understand how these work at a high-level. e.g. - where do the pxe_ssh drivers SSH to ? > for reset, i suppose it could be the ironic node itself (if it’s actually running a load, like the deployment image) > but for power on/off ... it can’t be the ironic node itself Can somebody provide or point me to a brief explanation of how Ironic can be used for serving loads to devices NOT supporting IPMI ? thanks in advance, Greg __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
