Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On 14 February 2014 07:06, Victoria Martínez de la Cruz < victo...@vmartinezdelacruz.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I think we should separate between mentoring efforts and documentation. > > For the first one, is true that there are always tons of tasks to do but > sometimes a beginner won't find them because they are not familiar with the > workflow neither with the community. People that is not involved with > open-source just doesn't know where to start when reaching to an > organization of this kind. So, having someone to ask about this is usually > a great help. That is something OpenHatch is intended to solve. > > I must say that OpenHatch is not time consuming and helped several people > to join OpenStack and start contributing to it. And that is great :) > > Another thing we tried last year is #openstack-101, a channel for new > contributors where they are free to ask any doubt they could have. I'm > happy to say this worked as a hub between newcomers and the community and > that lots of people have been able to start working with us. > > About documentation, I agree that it could be quite overwhelming the first > time, but that is how complex our organization is. The thing is... we get > used to that. > > Perhaps we could ask new contributors what they would like to find in the > 'How to contribute' wiki page and refine it to make it easier for new > people (I volunteer for that!). > > Finally, I wanted to mention that mentoring is great. I still have many > things to learn, but I have been able to guide people with their first > steps in the community and is cool to see how a little effort like that > mean, later in time, great contributions. > > Thanks all for the feedback, > > Victoria > > It has probably been mentioned before and I missed it but, where can people find these mentors you talk about? This should be mentioned in pages like: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HowToContribute https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DevQuickstart https://swiftstack.com/blog/2013/02/12/swift-for-new-contributors/ > > > 2014-02-13 23:46 GMT-03:00 Luis de Bethencourt : > >> On 13 February 2014 21:09, Jeremy Stanley wrote: >> >>> On 2014-02-12 14:42:17 -0600 (-0600), Dolph Mathews wrote: >>> [...] >>> > There's a lot of such scenarios where new contributors can >>> > quickly find things to contribute, or at lest provide incredibly >>> > valuable feedback to the project in the form of reviews! >>> [...] >>> >>> I heartily second the suggestion. The biggest and best thing I did >>> as a new contributor was to start reviewing changes first thing. An >>> initial contributor, if they have any aptitude for software >>> development at all, will be able to tell a ton about our development >>> community by how it interacts through code review. The test-centric >>> methodology, style guidelines and general level of >>> acceptance/tolerance for various things become immediately apparent. >>> You also get to test your understanding of the source by watching >>> all the mistakes other reviewers find that you missed in your >>> reviewing. Refine and repeat. >>> >>> Getting a couple of very simple changes in right away also helps you >>> pick up the workflow and toolset, but reviewing others changes is a >>> huge boon to both the project and the would-be contributors doing >>> the reviewing... much more so than correcting a handful of >>> typographical errors. >>> -- >>> Jeremy Stanley >>> >> >> >> That is a very good idea Jeremy. >> >> I started learning and contributing to OpenStack yesterday. I have been >> writing down all the things I do, read and discover. Planning to blog about >> and share it. I think it would be valuable to show how to contribute and >> learn the project from the point of view of a novice to it. >> >> Cheers, >> Luis >> >> >> ___ >> OpenStack-dev mailing list >> OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >> >> > > ___ > OpenStack-dev mailing list > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
Hi all, I think we should separate between mentoring efforts and documentation. For the first one, is true that there are always tons of tasks to do but sometimes a beginner won't find them because they are not familiar with the workflow neither with the community. People that is not involved with open-source just doesn't know where to start when reaching to an organization of this kind. So, having someone to ask about this is usually a great help. That is something OpenHatch is intended to solve. I must say that OpenHatch is not time consuming and helped several people to join OpenStack and start contributing to it. And that is great :) Another thing we tried last year is #openstack-101, a channel for new contributors where they are free to ask any doubt they could have. I'm happy to say this worked as a hub between newcomers and the community and that lots of people have been able to start working with us. About documentation, I agree that it could be quite overwhelming the first time, but that is how complex our organization is. The thing is... we get used to that. Perhaps we could ask new contributors what they would like to find in the 'How to contribute' wiki page and refine it to make it easier for new people (I volunteer for that!). Finally, I wanted to mention that mentoring is great. I still have many things to learn, but I have been able to guide people with their first steps in the community and is cool to see how a little effort like that mean, later in time, great contributions. Thanks all for the feedback, Victoria 2014-02-13 23:46 GMT-03:00 Luis de Bethencourt : > On 13 February 2014 21:09, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > >> On 2014-02-12 14:42:17 -0600 (-0600), Dolph Mathews wrote: >> [...] >> > There's a lot of such scenarios where new contributors can >> > quickly find things to contribute, or at lest provide incredibly >> > valuable feedback to the project in the form of reviews! >> [...] >> >> I heartily second the suggestion. The biggest and best thing I did >> as a new contributor was to start reviewing changes first thing. An >> initial contributor, if they have any aptitude for software >> development at all, will be able to tell a ton about our development >> community by how it interacts through code review. The test-centric >> methodology, style guidelines and general level of >> acceptance/tolerance for various things become immediately apparent. >> You also get to test your understanding of the source by watching >> all the mistakes other reviewers find that you missed in your >> reviewing. Refine and repeat. >> >> Getting a couple of very simple changes in right away also helps you >> pick up the workflow and toolset, but reviewing others changes is a >> huge boon to both the project and the would-be contributors doing >> the reviewing... much more so than correcting a handful of >> typographical errors. >> -- >> Jeremy Stanley >> > > > That is a very good idea Jeremy. > > I started learning and contributing to OpenStack yesterday. I have been > writing down all the things I do, read and discover. Planning to blog about > and share it. I think it would be valuable to show how to contribute and > learn the project from the point of view of a novice to it. > > Cheers, > Luis > > > ___ > OpenStack-dev mailing list > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On 13 February 2014 21:09, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > On 2014-02-12 14:42:17 -0600 (-0600), Dolph Mathews wrote: > [...] > > There's a lot of such scenarios where new contributors can > > quickly find things to contribute, or at lest provide incredibly > > valuable feedback to the project in the form of reviews! > [...] > > I heartily second the suggestion. The biggest and best thing I did > as a new contributor was to start reviewing changes first thing. An > initial contributor, if they have any aptitude for software > development at all, will be able to tell a ton about our development > community by how it interacts through code review. The test-centric > methodology, style guidelines and general level of > acceptance/tolerance for various things become immediately apparent. > You also get to test your understanding of the source by watching > all the mistakes other reviewers find that you missed in your > reviewing. Refine and repeat. > > Getting a couple of very simple changes in right away also helps you > pick up the workflow and toolset, but reviewing others changes is a > huge boon to both the project and the would-be contributors doing > the reviewing... much more so than correcting a handful of > typographical errors. > -- > Jeremy Stanley > That is a very good idea Jeremy. I started learning and contributing to OpenStack yesterday. I have been writing down all the things I do, read and discover. Planning to blog about and share it. I think it would be valuable to show how to contribute and learn the project from the point of view of a novice to it. Cheers, Luis ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On 2014-02-12 14:42:17 -0600 (-0600), Dolph Mathews wrote: [...] > There's a lot of such scenarios where new contributors can > quickly find things to contribute, or at lest provide incredibly > valuable feedback to the project in the form of reviews! [...] I heartily second the suggestion. The biggest and best thing I did as a new contributor was to start reviewing changes first thing. An initial contributor, if they have any aptitude for software development at all, will be able to tell a ton about our development community by how it interacts through code review. The test-centric methodology, style guidelines and general level of acceptance/tolerance for various things become immediately apparent. You also get to test your understanding of the source by watching all the mistakes other reviewers find that you missed in your reviewing. Refine and repeat. Getting a couple of very simple changes in right away also helps you pick up the workflow and toolset, but reviewing others changes is a huge boon to both the project and the would-be contributors doing the reviewing... much more so than correcting a handful of typographical errors. -- Jeremy Stanley ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On 2014-02-12 15:34, Adrian Otto wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Ben Nemec wrote: On 2014-02-12 13:48, Adrian Otto wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Ben Nemec wrote: On 2014-02-12 09:51, Jesse Noller wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: Hi folks, Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors to get involved. Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one can help out with when only having limited time). I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, if you're curious or have any questions. In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your project to OpenHatch too! Cheers, Julie +10 There’s been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS projects continue to suffer from it (“barrier to entry too high”). Some random thoughts: I’d like to see something like Solum’s Contributing page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended “intro to contribution” guide - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy / fast it is, not all of the options at once. So, glancing over the Solum page, I don't see anything specific to Solum in there besides a few paths in examples. It's basically a condensed version of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritWorkflow sans a lot of the detail. This might be a good thing to add as a QuickStart section on that wiki page (which is linked from the how to contribute page, although maybe not as prominently as it should be). But, a lot of that detail is needed before a change is going to be accepted anyway. I'm not sure giving a new contributor just the bare minimum is actually doing them any favors. Without letting them know things like how to format a commit message and configure their ssh keys on Gerrit, they aren't going to be able to get a change accepted anyway and IMHO they're likely to just give up anyway (and possibly waste some reviewer time in the process). The key point I'd like to emphasize is that we should not optimize for the ease and comfort of the incumbent OpenStack developers and reviewers. Instead, we should focus effort on welcoming new contribution. I like to think about this through a long term lens. I believe that long lived organizations thrive based size and diversity of their membership. I'm not saying we disregard quality and efficiency of our conduct, but we should place a higher value on making OpenStack a community that people are delighted to join. I'm not disagreeing, but there has to be a balance. tldr: there are a lot of pitfalls in the submission proc
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
"Dolph Mathews" wrote: > On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: > > > > > I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that > > there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's > > a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, > > devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that > > will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much > > longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code > > from. > > > > My counterargument to this is to jump straight into > http://review.openstack.org/ (which happens to be publicly available to > newcomers). > > Easy tasks / simple issues (i.e. nits!) are *frequently* cited in code > review, and although our community tends to get hung up on seeing them > fixed prior merging the patchset in question (sometimes with good reason, > sometimes due to arbitrary opinion), that doesn't always happen (for > example, it's not worth delaying approval of an important patch to see a > typo fixed in an inline comment) and isn't always appropriate (such as, > "this other thing over here should be refactored"). > > There's a lot of such scenarios where new contributors can quickly find > things to contribute, or at lest provide incredibly valuable feedback to > the project in the form of reviews! As a bonus, new contributors jumping > straight into reviews tend to get up to speed on the code base *much* more > quickly than they otherwise would (IMO), as they become directly involved > in design discussions, etc. I wouldn't consider this a counterargument but complementary, it's a great suggestion. I try to find out what people are interested in helping out with first and not assume that it's necessarily about submitting a code contribution either (though so far it's mostly been the case). Different approaches. I just realised that "Reviewing" isn't in the table of contents on the how to contribute landing page [1] and was probably low visibility. I made a first stab at adding something more explicit about it, feel free to expand and clarify. Thanks to the people who contributed to this thread. I look forward to seeing new projects popping up on OpenHatch soon :-) Julie [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HowToContribute > > > > > > [1] > > http://opensource.com/business/14/2/analyzing-contributions-to-openstack > > [2] http://openhatch.org/ > > [3] http://openhatch.org/+projects/OpenStack%20dashboard%20%28Horizon%29 > > [4] https://openhatch.org/wiki/Contacting_new_contributors > > > > ___ > > OpenStack-dev mailing list > > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > > ___ > OpenStack-dev mailing list > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
Hello,
I would like to explain my experience like a newbie in OpenStack due
to be one of this people who used OpenHatch to contribute an
opensource project.
I won't talk about the quality or clarity of the documentation (true
that are a lot and maybe some can improve) but about all the
importance the role of the mentor.
For a newbie there are a lot of doumentation to read and new tools to
use, I think that the role of mentor help a lot and make the
beginnings more easy. Helping to focus the most important
documentation to begin with and especially to gain confidence in the
first steps.
I'm very happy to contribute in OpenStack, and grateful to Julie and
vkmc to their idea of register this project in OpenHatch. I encourage
other developers to do of mentors.
Thanks at all.
Best regards,
Floren.
2014-02-12 22:34 GMT+01:00 Adrian Otto :
>
> On Feb 12, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Ben Nemec
> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-12 13:48, Adrian Otto wrote:
>>> On Feb 12, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Ben Nemec
>>> wrote:
On 2014-02-12 09:51, Jesse Noller wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1]
>> finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself
>> have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors
>> to get involved.
>> Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to
>> helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we
>> created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level
>> details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been
>> expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch
>> submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out
>> with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one
>> can help out with when only having limited time).
>> I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that
>> there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's
>> a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python,
>> devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that
>> will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much
>> longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code
>> from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take
>> on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I
>> can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits
>> are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In
>> Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I
>> try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that
>> would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch.
>> OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people
>> indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming,
>> following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial
>> contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what
>> they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be
>> too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone
>> submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions
>> or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more,
>> if you're curious or have any questions.
>> In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project,
>> and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your
>> project to OpenHatch too!
>> Cheers,
>> Julie
> +10
> There's been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on
> the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in
> general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core
> Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS
> projects continue to suffer from it ("barrier to entry too high").
> Some random thoughts:
> I'd like to see something like Solum's Contributing page:
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing
> Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended "intro to
> contribution" guide -
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more
> accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy /
> fast it is, not all of the options at once.
So, glancing over the Solum page, I don't see anything specific to Solum
in there besides a few paths in examples. It's basically a condensed
version of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritWorkflow sans a lot of
the detail. This might be a good thing to add as a QuickStart section on
that wiki page (which is linked f
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On Feb 12, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Ben Nemec wrote: > On 2014-02-12 13:48, Adrian Otto wrote: >> On Feb 12, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Ben Nemec >> wrote: >>> On 2014-02-12 09:51, Jesse Noller wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: > Hi folks, > Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] > finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself > have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors > to get involved. > Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to > helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we > created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level > details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been > expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch > submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out > with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one > can help out with when only having limited time). > I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that > there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's > a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, > devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that > will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much > longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code > from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take > on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I > can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits > are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In > Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I > try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that > would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. > OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people > indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, > following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial > contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what > they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be > too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone > submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions > or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, > if you're curious or have any questions. > In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, > and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your > project to OpenHatch too! > Cheers, > Julie +10 There’s been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS projects continue to suffer from it (“barrier to entry too high”). Some random thoughts: I’d like to see something like Solum’s Contributing page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended “intro to contribution” guide - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy / fast it is, not all of the options at once. >>> So, glancing over the Solum page, I don't see anything specific to Solum in >>> there besides a few paths in examples. It's basically a condensed version >>> of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritWorkflow sans a lot of the detail. >>> This might be a good thing to add as a QuickStart section on that wiki >>> page (which is linked from the how to contribute page, although maybe not >>> as prominently as it should be). But, a lot of that detail is needed >>> before a change is going to be accepted anyway. I'm not sure giving a new >>> contributor just the bare minimum is actually doing them any favors. >>> Without letting them know things like how to format a commit message and >>> configure their ssh keys on Gerrit, they aren't going to be able to get a >>> change accepted anyway and IMHO they're likely to just give up anyway (and >>> possibly waste some reviewer time in the process). >> The key point I'd like to emphasize is that we should not optimize for >> the ease and comfort of the incumbent OpenStack developers and >> reviewers. Instead, we should focus effort on welcoming new >> contribution. I like to think about this through a long term lens. I >> believe that long lived organizations thrive based size and diversity >
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On 2014-02-12 13:48, Adrian Otto wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Ben Nemec wrote: On 2014-02-12 09:51, Jesse Noller wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: Hi folks, Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors to get involved. Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one can help out with when only having limited time). I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, if you're curious or have any questions. In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your project to OpenHatch too! Cheers, Julie +10 There’s been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS projects continue to suffer from it (“barrier to entry too high”). Some random thoughts: I’d like to see something like Solum’s Contributing page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended “intro to contribution” guide - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy / fast it is, not all of the options at once. So, glancing over the Solum page, I don't see anything specific to Solum in there besides a few paths in examples. It's basically a condensed version of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritWorkflow sans a lot of the detail. This might be a good thing to add as a QuickStart section on that wiki page (which is linked from the how to contribute page, although maybe not as prominently as it should be). But, a lot of that detail is needed before a change is going to be accepted anyway. I'm not sure giving a new contributor just the bare minimum is actually doing them any favors. Without letting them know things like how to format a commit message and configure their ssh keys on Gerrit, they aren't going to be able to get a change accepted anyway and IMHO they're likely to just give up anyway (and possibly waste some reviewer time in the process). The key point I'd like to emphasize is that we should not optimize for the ease and comfort of the incumbent OpenStack developers and reviewers. Instead, we should focus effort on welcoming new contribution. I like to think about this through a long term lens. I believe that long lived organizations thrive based size and diversity of their membership. I'm not saying we disregard quality and efficiency of our conduct, but we should place a higher value on making OpenStack a community that people are delighted to join. I'm not disagreeing, but there has to be a balance. tldr: there are a lot of pitfalls in the submission process, and if they aren't well-documented they're going to frustrate new contributors to no end. For
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: > > I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that > there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's > a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, > devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that > will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much > longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code > from. > My counterargument to this is to jump straight into http://review.openstack.org/ (which happens to be publicly available to newcomers). Easy tasks / simple issues (i.e. nits!) are *frequently* cited in code review, and although our community tends to get hung up on seeing them fixed prior merging the patchset in question (sometimes with good reason, sometimes due to arbitrary opinion), that doesn't always happen (for example, it's not worth delaying approval of an important patch to see a typo fixed in an inline comment) and isn't always appropriate (such as, "this other thing over here should be refactored"). There's a lot of such scenarios where new contributors can quickly find things to contribute, or at lest provide incredibly valuable feedback to the project in the form of reviews! As a bonus, new contributors jumping straight into reviews tend to get up to speed on the code base *much* more quickly than they otherwise would (IMO), as they become directly involved in design discussions, etc. > > [1] > http://opensource.com/business/14/2/analyzing-contributions-to-openstack > [2] http://openhatch.org/ > [3] http://openhatch.org/+projects/OpenStack%20dashboard%20%28Horizon%29 > [4] https://openhatch.org/wiki/Contacting_new_contributors > > ___ > OpenStack-dev mailing list > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On Feb 12, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Ben Nemec wrote: > On 2014-02-12 09:51, Jesse Noller wrote: >> On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: >>> Hi folks, >>> Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] >>> finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself >>> have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors >>> to get involved. >>> Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to >>> helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we >>> created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level >>> details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been >>> expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch >>> submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out >>> with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one >>> can help out with when only having limited time). >>> I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that >>> there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's >>> a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, >>> devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that >>> will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much >>> longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code >>> from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take >>> on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I >>> can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits >>> are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In >>> Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I >>> try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that >>> would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. >>> OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people >>> indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, >>> following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial >>> contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what >>> they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be >>> too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone >>> submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions >>> or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, >>> if you're curious or have any questions. >>> In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, >>> and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your >>> project to OpenHatch too! >>> Cheers, >>> Julie >> +10 >> There’s been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on >> the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in >> general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core >> Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS >> projects continue to suffer from it (“barrier to entry too high”). >> Some random thoughts: >> I’d like to see something like Solum’s Contributing page: >> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing >> Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended “intro to >> contribution” guide - >> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more >> accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy / >> fast it is, not all of the options at once. > > So, glancing over the Solum page, I don't see anything specific to Solum in > there besides a few paths in examples. It's basically a condensed version of > https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritWorkflow sans a lot of the detail. > This might be a good thing to add as a QuickStart section on that wiki page > (which is linked from the how to contribute page, although maybe not as > prominently as it should be). But, a lot of that detail is needed before a > change is going to be accepted anyway. I'm not sure giving a new contributor > just the bare minimum is actually doing them any favors. Without letting > them know things like how to format a commit message and configure their ssh > keys on Gerrit, they aren't going to be able to get a change accepted anyway > and IMHO they're likely to just give up anyway (and possibly waste some > reviewer time in the process). The key point I'd like to emphasize is that we should not optimize for the ease and comfort of the incumbent OpenStack developers and reviewers. Instead, we should focus effort on welcoming new contribution. I like to think about this through a long term lens. I believe that long lived organizations thrive based size and diversity of their membership. I'm not saying we disregard quality and efficiency of our conduct, but we should place a higher value on making OpenStack a community that people are delighted to join. Focused efforts like the one outlined by Julie
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On 2014-02-12 09:51, Jesse Noller wrote: On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: Hi folks, Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors to get involved. Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one can help out with when only having limited time). I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, if you're curious or have any questions. In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your project to OpenHatch too! Cheers, Julie +10 There’s been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS projects continue to suffer from it (“barrier to entry too high”). Some random thoughts: I’d like to see something like Solum’s Contributing page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended “intro to contribution” guide - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy / fast it is, not all of the options at once. So, glancing over the Solum page, I don't see anything specific to Solum in there besides a few paths in examples. It's basically a condensed version of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritWorkflow sans a lot of the detail. This might be a good thing to add as a QuickStart section on that wiki page (which is linked from the how to contribute page, although maybe not as prominently as it should be). But, a lot of that detail is needed before a change is going to be accepted anyway. I'm not sure giving a new contributor just the bare minimum is actually doing them any favors. Without letting them know things like how to format a commit message and configure their ssh keys on Gerrit, they aren't going to be able to get a change accepted anyway and IMHO they're likely to just give up anyway (and possibly waste some reviewer time in the process). That said, the GerritWorkflow page definitely needs some updates and maybe a little condensing of its own. For example, do we really need distro-specific instructions for installing git-review? How about just "Install pip through your distro's package management tool of choice and then run pip install git-review"? I would hope anyone planning to contribute to OpenStack is capable of following that. I guess my main point is that our contributing docs could use work, but there's also that "as simple as possible, but no simpler" thing to consider. And I certainly don't like that we seem to be duplicating effort on this front. /2 cents -Ben ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opens
Re: [openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Julie Pichon wrote: > Hi folks, > > Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] > finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself > have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors > to get involved. > > Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to > helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we > created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level > details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been > expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch > submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out > with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one > can help out with when only having limited time). > > I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that > there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's > a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, > devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that > will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much > longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code > from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take > on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I > can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits > are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In > Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I > try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that > would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. > > OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people > indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, > following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial > contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what > they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be > too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone > submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions > or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, > if you're curious or have any questions. > > In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, > and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your > project to OpenHatch too! > > Cheers, > > Julie > +10 There’s been quite a bit of talk about this - but not necessarily on the dev list. I think openhatch is great - mentorship programs in general go a *long* way to help raise up and gain new people. Core Python has had this issue for awhile, and many other large OSS projects continue to suffer from it (“barrier to entry too high”). Some random thoughts: I’d like to see something like Solum’s Contributing page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Solum/Contributing Expanded a little and potentially be the recommended “intro to contribution” guide - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute is good, but a more accessible version goes a long way. You want to show them how easy / fast it is, not all of the options at once. I think this is somewhere where python-core has gotten better at with: http://docs.python.org/devguide/ It’s not perfect, but it errors on “time to submission/fix" > [1] http://opensource.com/business/14/2/analyzing-contributions-to-openstack > [2] http://openhatch.org/ > [3] http://openhatch.org/+projects/OpenStack%20dashboard%20%28Horizon%29 > [4] https://openhatch.org/wiki/Contacting_new_contributors > > ___ > OpenStack-dev mailing list > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] Interested in attracting new contributors?
Hi folks, Stefano's post on how to make contributions to OpenStack easier [1] finally stirred me into writing about something that vkmc and myself have been doing on the side for a few months to help new contributors to get involved. Some of you may be aware of OpenHatch [2], a non-profit dedicated to helping newcomers get started in open-source. About 6 months ago we created a project page for Horizon [3], filled in a few high level details, set ourselves up as mentors. Since then people have been expressing interest in the project and a number of them got a patch submitted and approved, a couple are sticking around (often helping out with bug triaging, as confirming new bugs is one of the few tasks one can help out with when only having limited time). I can definitely sympathise with the comment in Stefano's article that there are not enough easy tasks / simple issues for newcomers. There's a lot to learn already when you're starting out (git, gerrit, python, devstack, ...) and simple bugs are so hard to find - something that will take a few minutes to an existing contributor will take much longer for someone who's still figuring out where to get the code from. Unfortunately it's not uncommon for existing contributors to take on tasks marked as "low-hanging-fruit" because it's only 5 minutes (I can understand this coming up to an RC but otherwise low-hanging-fruits are often low priority nits that could wait a little bit longer). In Horizon the low-hanging-fruits definitely get snatched up quickly and I try to keep a list of typos or other low impact, trivial bugs that would make good first tasks for people reaching out via OpenHatch. OpenHatch doesn't spam, you get one email a week if one or more people indicated they want to help. The initial effort is not time-consuming, following OpenHatch's advice [4] you can refine a nice "initial contact" email that helps you get people started and understand what they are interested in quickly. I don't find the time commitment to be too much so far, and it's incredibly gratifying to see someone submitting their first patch after you answered a couple of questions or helped resolve a hairy git issue. I'm happy to chat about it more, if you're curious or have any questions. In any case if you'd like to attract more contributors to your project, and/or help newcomers get started in open-source, consider adding your project to OpenHatch too! Cheers, Julie [1] http://opensource.com/business/14/2/analyzing-contributions-to-openstack [2] http://openhatch.org/ [3] http://openhatch.org/+projects/OpenStack%20dashboard%20%28Horizon%29 [4] https://openhatch.org/wiki/Contacting_new_contributors ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
