Re: [openstack-dev] Secure live VM migration in cloud (openstack)
Respected Joshua Harlow, Thanks for reply, Based on literature survey i found that following techniques are used for secure live migration of vm. 1. RSA with SSL protocol for authentication and encryption. As you mentioned earlier same problem is in RSA based authentication. we have to add public keys of all other hypervisors. In Blackhat 2013, security research found vulnerability in SSL so it can be breakable in very short time. please check http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/gone-in-30-seconds-new-attack-plucks-secrets-from-https-protected-pages/ 2. SSH is used for secure tunnel before live vm migration. Authentication is not discussed, only secure tunnel is used to achieve confidentiality. 3. Openstack uses libvirtd with kvm to provide secure vm migration between src and dst machine. SSL is used for encrypted channel and SASL is used for authentication. so i am interested to implement authentication level's in live vm migration. 1.no authentication 2. Certificate base 3.smart card based authentication and similarly ssl provide secure channel but after that seaprate VLAN is used for vm migration traffic. if we use ipsec then we can achieve same goal on network layer to hide all communication of vm migration. Regards Naveed On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:44 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.comwrote: Arg, hit send to quick. *likely these problems would require some managed migration thing that would temporarily open the network access, issue temporary auth keys and the initiate the migration between the 2 hypervisors. Is this in your scope, to make this thing?? Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 25, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Hi, I think it's a good idea, can u describe more what would be different, would there be a new auth and live migration mechanism? I think one of the problems at least yahoo has is that live migration requires all ssh keys to be on all hypervisors since hypervisors (libvirtd) open up the connection to the hypervisor to be migrated to. This is obviously bad, as any hacker if they can get out of a vm now can start issuing these migration requests. Also at yahoo we don't allow hypervisors to communicate openly to each other, this is protected at the network level. Would u be working on solutions to these problems (likely involving Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:33 AM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: thanks for replying Joshua, VM migration is the process used to migrate vm from one physical server to another physical server due to many reasons like system maintenance, hardware failure , VM is important element in cloud as well, so we do same in the cloud. xen/kvm hypervisor used in the openstack dont provide security in this process. i studied few paper on it which are related to VM migration in DC instead of Cloud. i also seen book on openstack security in which it is describe that xen/kvm could not provide security but libvirt can be used with xen/kvm to secure this process. Currently libvirt is providing ssl for confidentiality of data between source and destination. and SASL for authentication. i want to add other authentication mechanism in it and in the end it would be added in the Dashboard of openstack so that administrator use it easily, Access control is also part of this thesis.. may you got my idea Mr. Joshua Harlow and now please comment on it. is it good or not? your comment will help me to choose good topic in cloud security, Regards On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.comwrote: Is there any write up of what u want to do or is that not defined yet? If u can write up some information I think that would help others provide feedback as well as help everyone (including yourself) see the goal too be accomplished. It's hard to tell what the desired outcome is otherwise, secure vm migration could mean a lot of things :) Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 24, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: Hi all, I am doing thesis in cloud computing security domain, i selected to secure vm migration process in openstack. Please let me know about this idea. i have done some initial work on it. i need comment of you people which will be helpful for me. Thanks and Regards ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Re: [openstack-dev] Secure live VM migration in cloud (openstack)
Hi, Those ideas sounds pretty good to me. Although I'm not an expert in the security area, have u talked with the libvirt folks. I wonder if they have any of this planned? From: Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pkmailto:12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk Reply-To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.orgmailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Date: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:10 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.orgmailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Secure live VM migration in cloud (openstack) Respected Joshua Harlow, Thanks for reply, Based on literature survey i found that following techniques are used for secure live migration of vm. 1. RSA with SSL protocol for authentication and encryption. As you mentioned earlier same problem is in RSA based authentication. we have to add public keys of all other hypervisors. In Blackhat 2013, security research found vulnerability in SSL so it can be breakable in very short time. please check http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/gone-in-30-seconds-new-attack-plucks-secrets-from-https-protected-pages/ 2. SSH is used for secure tunnel before live vm migration. Authentication is not discussed, only secure tunnel is used to achieve confidentiality. 3. Openstack uses libvirtd with kvm to provide secure vm migration between src and dst machine. SSL is used for encrypted channel and SASL is used for authentication. so i am interested to implement authentication level's in live vm migration. 1.nohttp://1.no authentication 2. Certificate base 3.smart card based authentication and similarly ssl provide secure channel but after that seaprate VLAN is used for vm migration traffic. if we use ipsec then we can achieve same goal on network layer to hide all communication of vm migration. Regards Naveed On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:44 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.commailto:harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Arg, hit send to quick. *likely these problems would require some managed migration thing that would temporarily open the network access, issue temporary auth keys and the initiate the migration between the 2 hypervisors. Is this in your scope, to make this thing?? Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 25, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.commailto:harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Hi, I think it's a good idea, can u describe more what would be different, would there be a new auth and live migration mechanism? I think one of the problems at least yahoo has is that live migration requires all ssh keys to be on all hypervisors since hypervisors (libvirtd) open up the connection to the hypervisor to be migrated to. This is obviously bad, as any hacker if they can get out of a vm now can start issuing these migration requests. Also at yahoo we don't allow hypervisors to communicate openly to each other, this is protected at the network level. Would u be working on solutions to these problems (likely involving Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:33 AM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pkmailto:12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: thanks for replying Joshua, VM migration is the process used to migrate vm from one physical server to another physical server due to many reasons like system maintenance, hardware failure , VM is important element in cloud as well, so we do same in the cloud. xen/kvm hypervisor used in the openstack dont provide security in this process. i studied few paper on it which are related to VM migration in DC instead of Cloud. i also seen book on openstack security in which it is describe that xen/kvm could not provide security but libvirt can be used with xen/kvm to secure this process. Currently libvirt is providing ssl for confidentiality of data between source and destination. and SASL for authentication. i want to add other authentication mechanism in it and in the end it would be added in the Dashboard of openstack so that administrator use it easily, Access control is also part of this thesis.. may you got my idea Mr. Joshua Harlow and now please comment on it. is it good or not? your comment will help me to choose good topic in cloud security, Regards On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.commailto:harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Is there any write up of what u want to do or is that not defined yet? If u can write up some information I think that would help others provide feedback as well as help everyone (including yourself) see the goal too be accomplished. It's hard to tell what the desired outcome is otherwise, secure vm migration could mean a lot of things :) Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 24, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pkmailto:12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: Hi all, I am doing thesis in cloud computing security domain, i selected
Re: [openstack-dev] Secure live VM migration in cloud (openstack)
thanks for replying Joshua, VM migration is the process used to migrate vm from one physical server to another physical server due to many reasons like system maintenance, hardware failure , VM is important element in cloud as well, so we do same in the cloud. xen/kvm hypervisor used in the openstack dont provide security in this process. i studied few paper on it which are related to VM migration in DC instead of Cloud. i also seen book on openstack security in which it is describe that xen/kvm could not provide security but libvirt can be used with xen/kvm to secure this process. Currently libvirt is providing ssl for confidentiality of data between source and destination. and SASL for authentication. i want to add other authentication mechanism in it and in the end it would be added in the Dashboard of openstack so that administrator use it easily, Access control is also part of this thesis.. may you got my idea Mr. Joshua Harlow and now please comment on it. is it good or not? your comment will help me to choose good topic in cloud security, Regards On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.comwrote: Is there any write up of what u want to do or is that not defined yet? If u can write up some information I think that would help others provide feedback as well as help everyone (including yourself) see the goal too be accomplished. It's hard to tell what the desired outcome is otherwise, secure vm migration could mean a lot of things :) Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 24, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: Hi all, I am doing thesis in cloud computing security domain, i selected to secure vm migration process in openstack. Please let me know about this idea. i have done some initial work on it. i need comment of you people which will be helpful for me. Thanks and Regards ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Secure live VM migration in cloud (openstack)
Thanks for reply Bryan D. Payne, yeah i already seen it and it help me to discuss my idea with supervisor. Openstack mentioned that using libvirt we can achieve confidentiality.. libvirt provides ssl for this purpose. xen/kvm hypervisor dont provide secure live vm migration but libvirt can be integrated to achieve it. SASL authentication is provided by libvirt , but i want to other authentication/authorization mechanism in it. I have seen paper's on live vm migration in DC and it is insecure process, as we same feature of hypervisor in cloud so i chosen this topic. if i am on wrong direction then please guide me so that i can follow right track to accomplished my goal's. Thanks On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Bryan D. Payne bdpa...@acm.org wrote: I am doing thesis in cloud computing security domain, i selected to secure vm migration process in openstack. Please let me know about this idea. i have done some initial work on it. i need comment of you people which will be helpful for me. The OpenStack Security Guide has a (somewhat brief) section on this topic. http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-security/content/ch055_security-services-for-instances.html#ch055_security-services-for-instances-idp170576 Cheers, -bryan ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Secure live VM migration in cloud (openstack)
Hi, I think it's a good idea, can u describe more what would be different, would there be a new auth and live migration mechanism? I think one of the problems at least yahoo has is that live migration requires all ssh keys to be on all hypervisors since hypervisors (libvirtd) open up the connection to the hypervisor to be migrated to. This is obviously bad, as any hacker if they can get out of a vm now can start issuing these migration requests. Also at yahoo we don't allow hypervisors to communicate openly to each other, this is protected at the network level. Would u be working on solutions to these problems (likely involving Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:33 AM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pkmailto:12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: thanks for replying Joshua, VM migration is the process used to migrate vm from one physical server to another physical server due to many reasons like system maintenance, hardware failure , VM is important element in cloud as well, so we do same in the cloud. xen/kvm hypervisor used in the openstack dont provide security in this process. i studied few paper on it which are related to VM migration in DC instead of Cloud. i also seen book on openstack security in which it is describe that xen/kvm could not provide security but libvirt can be used with xen/kvm to secure this process. Currently libvirt is providing ssl for confidentiality of data between source and destination. and SASL for authentication. i want to add other authentication mechanism in it and in the end it would be added in the Dashboard of openstack so that administrator use it easily, Access control is also part of this thesis.. may you got my idea Mr. Joshua Harlow and now please comment on it. is it good or not? your comment will help me to choose good topic in cloud security, Regards On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.commailto:harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: Is there any write up of what u want to do or is that not defined yet? If u can write up some information I think that would help others provide feedback as well as help everyone (including yourself) see the goal too be accomplished. It's hard to tell what the desired outcome is otherwise, secure vm migration could mean a lot of things :) Sent from my really tiny device... On Aug 24, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Naveed Ahmad 12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pkmailto:12msccsnah...@seecs.edu.pk wrote: Hi all, I am doing thesis in cloud computing security domain, i selected to secure vm migration process in openstack. Please let me know about this idea. i have done some initial work on it. i need comment of you people which will be helpful for me. Thanks and Regards ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.orgmailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.orgmailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.orgmailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
