Re: [openstack-dev] Too many mails on announce list again :)

[Doug Hellmann]

Excerpts from Morgan Fainberg's message of 2016-09-20 14:38:27 -0700:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Doug Hellmann 
> wrote:
> 
> > Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-09-20 10:19:04 +0200:
> > > Steve Martinelli wrote:
> > > > I think bundling the puppet, ansible and oslo releases together would
> > > > cut down on a considerable amount of traffic. Bundling or grouping new
> > > > releases may not be the most accurate, but if it encourages the right
> > > > folks to read the content instead of brushing it off, I think thats
> > > > worth while.
> > >
> > > Yeah, I agree that the current "style" of announcing actively trains
> > > people to ignore announces. The trick is that it's non-trivial to
> > > regroup announces (as they are automatically sent as a post-job for each
> > > tag).
> > >
> > > Solutions include:
> > >
> > > * A daily job that catches releases of the day and batches them into a
> > > single announce (issue being you don't get notified as soon as the
> > > release is available, and the announce email ends up being extremely
> > long)
> > >
> > > * A specific -release ML where all announces are posted, with a daily
> > > job to generate an email (one to -announce for services, one to -dev for
> > > libraries) that links to them, without expanding (issue being you don't
> > > have the natural thread in -dev to react to a broken oslo release)
> > >
> > > * Somehow generate the email from the openstack/release request rather
> > > than from the tags
> >
> > One email, with less detail, generated when a file merges into
> > openstack/release is my preference because it's easier to implement.
> >
> > Alternately we could move all of the announcements we have now to
> > a new -release list and folks that only want one email a day can
> > subscribe using digest delivery. Of course they could do that with
> > the list we have now, too.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > __
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> >
> 
> A release list makes a lot of sense. If you also include clear metadata in
> the subject such as including the owning project aka: keystone (for
> keystone auth, keystonemiddleware, keystoneclient), people can do direct
> filtering for what they care about ( as well digest mode).
> 
> --/morgan

We do that now. All of the announcements include the tag [new], the
tag for the project team that owns the deliverable, the name of the
deliverable, and the series for which it is being released.

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] Too many mails on announce list again :)

[Anita Kuno]

On 16-09-20 05:38 PM, Morgan Fainberg wrote:

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Doug Hellmann 
wrote:


Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-09-20 10:19:04 +0200:

Steve Martinelli wrote:

I think bundling the puppet, ansible and oslo releases together would
cut down on a considerable amount of traffic. Bundling or grouping new
releases may not be the most accurate, but if it encourages the right
folks to read the content instead of brushing it off, I think thats
worth while.

Yeah, I agree that the current "style" of announcing actively trains
people to ignore announces. The trick is that it's non-trivial to
regroup announces (as they are automatically sent as a post-job for each
tag).

Solutions include:

* A daily job that catches releases of the day and batches them into a
single announce (issue being you don't get notified as soon as the
release is available, and the announce email ends up being extremely

long)

* A specific -release ML where all announces are posted, with a daily
job to generate an email (one to -announce for services, one to -dev for
libraries) that links to them, without expanding (issue being you don't
have the natural thread in -dev to react to a broken oslo release)

* Somehow generate the email from the openstack/release request rather
than from the tags

One email, with less detail, generated when a file merges into
openstack/release is my preference because it's easier to implement.

Alternately we could move all of the announcements we have now to
a new -release list and folks that only want one email a day can
subscribe using digest delivery. Of course they could do that with
the list we have now, too.

Doug

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A release list makes a lot of sense. If you also include clear metadata in
the subject such as including the owning project aka: keystone (for
keystone auth, keystonemiddleware, keystoneclient), people can do direct
filtering for what they care about ( as well digest mode).

--/morgan



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Also you can set the description for the list to state the fact this 
list is meant for releases, so it will curtail complaints from 
subscribers saying we don't like what we are getting.


Thanks,
Anita.
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Re: [openstack-dev] Too many mails on announce list again :)

[Morgan Fainberg]

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Doug Hellmann 
wrote:

> Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-09-20 10:19:04 +0200:
> > Steve Martinelli wrote:
> > > I think bundling the puppet, ansible and oslo releases together would
> > > cut down on a considerable amount of traffic. Bundling or grouping new
> > > releases may not be the most accurate, but if it encourages the right
> > > folks to read the content instead of brushing it off, I think thats
> > > worth while.
> >
> > Yeah, I agree that the current "style" of announcing actively trains
> > people to ignore announces. The trick is that it's non-trivial to
> > regroup announces (as they are automatically sent as a post-job for each
> > tag).
> >
> > Solutions include:
> >
> > * A daily job that catches releases of the day and batches them into a
> > single announce (issue being you don't get notified as soon as the
> > release is available, and the announce email ends up being extremely
> long)
> >
> > * A specific -release ML where all announces are posted, with a daily
> > job to generate an email (one to -announce for services, one to -dev for
> > libraries) that links to them, without expanding (issue being you don't
> > have the natural thread in -dev to react to a broken oslo release)
> >
> > * Somehow generate the email from the openstack/release request rather
> > than from the tags
>
> One email, with less detail, generated when a file merges into
> openstack/release is my preference because it's easier to implement.
>
> Alternately we could move all of the announcements we have now to
> a new -release list and folks that only want one email a day can
> subscribe using digest delivery. Of course they could do that with
> the list we have now, too.
>
> Doug
>
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>

A release list makes a lot of sense. If you also include clear metadata in
the subject such as including the owning project aka: keystone (for
keystone auth, keystonemiddleware, keystoneclient), people can do direct
filtering for what they care about ( as well digest mode).

--/morgan
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Re: [openstack-dev] Too many mails on announce list again :)

[Doug Hellmann]

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-09-20 10:19:04 +0200:
> Steve Martinelli wrote:
> > I think bundling the puppet, ansible and oslo releases together would
> > cut down on a considerable amount of traffic. Bundling or grouping new
> > releases may not be the most accurate, but if it encourages the right
> > folks to read the content instead of brushing it off, I think thats
> > worth while.
> 
> Yeah, I agree that the current "style" of announcing actively trains
> people to ignore announces. The trick is that it's non-trivial to
> regroup announces (as they are automatically sent as a post-job for each
> tag).
> 
> Solutions include:
> 
> * A daily job that catches releases of the day and batches them into a
> single announce (issue being you don't get notified as soon as the
> release is available, and the announce email ends up being extremely long)
> 
> * A specific -release ML where all announces are posted, with a daily
> job to generate an email (one to -announce for services, one to -dev for
> libraries) that links to them, without expanding (issue being you don't
> have the natural thread in -dev to react to a broken oslo release)
> 
> * Somehow generate the email from the openstack/release request rather
> than from the tags

One email, with less detail, generated when a file merges into
openstack/release is my preference because it's easier to implement.

Alternately we could move all of the announcements we have now to
a new -release list and folks that only want one email a day can
subscribe using digest delivery. Of course they could do that with
the list we have now, too.

Doug

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Re: [openstack-dev] Too many mails on announce list again :)

[Thierry Carrez]

Steve Martinelli wrote:
> I think bundling the puppet, ansible and oslo releases together would
> cut down on a considerable amount of traffic. Bundling or grouping new
> releases may not be the most accurate, but if it encourages the right
> folks to read the content instead of brushing it off, I think thats
> worth while.

Yeah, I agree that the current "style" of announcing actively trains
people to ignore announces. The trick is that it's non-trivial to
regroup announces (as they are automatically sent as a post-job for each
tag).

Solutions include:

* A daily job that catches releases of the day and batches them into a
single announce (issue being you don't get notified as soon as the
release is available, and the announce email ends up being extremely long)

* A specific -release ML where all announces are posted, with a daily
job to generate an email (one to -announce for services, one to -dev for
libraries) that links to them, without expanding (issue being you don't
have the natural thread in -dev to react to a broken oslo release)

* Somehow generate the email from the openstack/release request rather
than from the tags

...

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Too many mails on announce list again :)

[Steve Martinelli]

I think bundling the puppet, ansible and oslo releases together would cut
down on a considerable amount of traffic. Bundling or grouping new releases
may not be the most accurate, but if it encourages the right folks to read
the content instead of brushing it off, I think thats worth while.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Tom Fifield  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Last November, we discussed the OpenStack-announce list, defined its
> purpose more finely and moved some internal library announcements to
> -dev[1].
>
> For reference, we describe the list as:
>
> """
> Subscribe to this list to receive important announcements from the
> OpenStack Release Team and OpenStack Security Team.
>
> This is a low-traffic, read-only list.
> """
>
> Unfortunately, the traffic on this list again regularly exceeds 100
> messages a month - worse than last time we talked about it.
>
> The feedback continues to come in from users that they find it more 'spam'
> than 'source of important announcements', which is not good news!
>
> Quite a lot of the email rush tends to come from when a particular project
> releases multiple 'components' at once. A fine effort of release
> management, but in the current system each component's release triggers its
> own email.
>
> For example, today the puppet team has been doing some great work with a
> 9.3.0 release. Many modules were updated. That's an "important
> announcement" for many of our users.
>
> However, to get the "low-traffic" bit, we need to make that 1 email,
> instead of 30 :)
>
>
> At least, that's my thinking. What's yours?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> [1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-Dece
> mber/082182.html
>
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