Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Matt Riedemann]

On 3/21/2018 6:34 AM, 李杰 wrote:
So what should we do then about rebuild the volume backed server?Until 
the cinder could re-image a volume?


I've added the spec to the 'stuck reviews' section of the nova meeting 
agenda so it can at least get some discussion there next week.


https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova#Agenda_for_next_meeting

--

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Dan Smith]

> Deleting all snapshots would seem dangerous though...
>
> 1. I want to reset my instance to how it was before
> 2. I'll just do a snapshot in case I need any data in the future
> 3. rebuild
> 4. oops

Yep, for sure. I think if there are snapshots, we have to refuse to do
te thing. My comment was about the "does nova have authority to destroy
the root volume during a rebuild" and I think it does, if
delete_on_termination=True, and if there are no snapshots.

--Dan

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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Tim Bell]

Deleting all snapshots would seem dangerous though...

1. I want to reset my instance to how it was before
2. I'll just do a snapshot in case I need any data in the future
3. rebuild
4. oops

Tim

-Original Message-
From: Ben Nemec 
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 

Date: Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 20:42
To: Dan Smith 
Cc: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
, openstack-operators 

Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume



On 03/15/2018 09:46 AM, Dan Smith wrote:
>> Rather than overload delete_on_termination, could another flag like
>> delete_on_rebuild be added?
> 
> Isn't delete_on_termination already the field we want? To me, that field
> means "nova owns this". If that is true, then we should be able to
> re-image the volume (in-place is ideal, IMHO) and if not, we just
> fail. Is that reasonable?

If that's what the flag means then it seems reasonable.  I got the 
impression from the previous discussion that not everyone was seeing it 
that way though.

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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Matt Riedemann]

I'm not sure why you're sending this same email *yet again*. There is 
already a thread going with the same details and questions below (from 
my original response yesterday):


http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2018-March/014952.html

Can we please stop spamming the mailing list(s) and just stick to one 
email thread on this issue?


On 3/15/2018 7:04 AM, 李杰 wrote:

Hi,all
This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for
volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API
since the compute doesn't support that scenario.

With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and
a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot
from volume works.

The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the
root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The
semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this
scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the
volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would
need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're
replacing?

Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server
and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a
rebuild?

If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a
lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up,
otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.

We need your feedback on this issue and what you would
expect to happen.

The link is here.

Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/



--

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Matt

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[Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[李杰]

Hi,all
   This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image 
for 
volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API 
since the compute doesn't support that scenario.

With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and 
a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot 
from volume works.

The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the 
root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The 
semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this 
scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the 
volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would 
need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're 
replacing?

Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server 
and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a 
rebuild?

If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a 
lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up, 
otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.


We need your feedback on this issue and what you would 
expect to happen.


The link is here.


Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/










Thanks,
lijie














Best Regards
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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Tomáš Vondra]

Hi!
I say delete! Delete them all!
Really, it's called delete_on_termination and should be ignored on Rebuild.
We have a VPS service implemented on top of OpenStack and do throw the old 
contents away on Rebuild. When the user has the Backup service paid, they can 
restore a snapshot. Backup is implemented as volume snapshot, then clone 
volume, then upload to image (glance is on a different disk array).

I also sometimes multi-attach a volume manually to a service node and just dd 
an image onto it. If it was to be implemented this way, then there would be no 
deleting a volume with delete_on_termination, just overwriting. But the effect 
is the same.

IMHO you can have snapshots of volumes that have been deleted. Just some 
backends like our 3PAR don't allow it, but it's not disallowed in the API 
contract.
Tomas from Homeatcloud

-Original Message-
From: Saverio Proto [mailto:ziopr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 3:19 PM
To: Tim Bell; Matt Riedemann
Cc: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions); 
openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild 
instance booted from volume

My idea is that if delete_on_termination flag is set to False the Volume should 
never be deleted by Nova.

my 2 cents

Saverio

2018-03-14 15:10 GMT+01:00 Tim Bell <tim.b...@cern.ch>:
> Matt,
>
> To add another scenario and make things even more difficult (sorry (), if the 
> original volume has snapshots, I don't think you can delete it.
>
> Tim
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Riedemann <mriede...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage 
> questions)" <openstack-...@lists.openstack.org>
> Date: Wednesday, 14 March 2018 at 14:55
> To: "openstack-...@lists.openstack.org" 
> <openstack-...@lists.openstack.org>, openstack-operators 
> <openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from 
> volume
>
> On 3/14/2018 3:42 AM, 李杰 wrote:
> >
> >  This is the spec about  rebuild a instance booted from
> > volume.In the spec,there is a
> >question about if we should delete the old root_volume.Anyone who
> > is interested in
> >booted from volume can help to review this. Any suggestion is
> > welcome.Thank you!
> >The link is here.
> >Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/
>
> Copying the operators list and giving some more context.
>
> This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for
> volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API
> since the compute doesn't support that scenario.
>
> With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and
> a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot
> from volume works.
>
> The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the
> root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The
> semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this
> scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the
> volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would
> need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're
> replacing?
>
> Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server
> and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a
> rebuild?
>
> If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a
> lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up,
> otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.
>
> We need user (and operator) feedback on this issue and what they would
> expect to happen.
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> __
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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Matthew Booth]

On 14 March 2018 at 13:46, Matt Riedemann  wrote:

> On 3/14/2018 3:42 AM, 李杰 wrote:
>
>>
>>  This is the spec about  rebuild a instance booted from
>> volume.In the spec,there is a
>>question about if we should delete the old root_volume.Anyone who
>> is interested in
>>booted from volume can help to review this. Any suggestion is
>> welcome.Thank you!
>>The link is here.
>>Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/
>>
>
> Copying the operators list and giving some more context.
>
> This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for
> volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API since
> the compute doesn't support that scenario.
>
> With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and a
> new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot from
> volume works.
>
> The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the
> root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The
> semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this
> scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the
> volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would
> need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're
> replacing?
>
> Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server and
> not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a rebuild?
>
> If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a
> lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up, otherwise
> they'll eventually go over quota.
>
> We need user (and operator) feedback on this issue and what they would
> expect to happen.
>

My 2c was to overwrite, not delete the volume[1]. I believe this preserves
both sets of semantics: the server is rebuilt, and the volume is not
deleted. The user will still lose their data, of course, but that's implied
by the rebuild they explicitly requested. The volume id will remain the
same.

[1] I suspect this would require new functionality in cinder to
re-initialize from image.

Matt
-- 
Matthew Booth
Red Hat OpenStack Engineer, Compute DFG

Phone: +442070094448 (UK)
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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Blair Bethwaite]

Please do not default to deleting it, otherwise someone will eventually be
back here asking why an irate user has just lost data. The better scenario
is that the rebuild will fail (early - before impact to the running
instance) with a quota error.

Cheers,

On Thu., 15 Mar. 2018, 00:46 Matt Riedemann,  wrote:

> On 3/14/2018 3:42 AM, 李杰 wrote:
> >
> >  This is the spec about  rebuild a instance booted from
> > volume.In the spec,there is a
> >question about if we should delete the old root_volume.Anyone who
> > is interested in
> >booted from volume can help to review this. Any suggestion is
> > welcome.Thank you!
> >The link is here.
> >Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/
>
> Copying the operators list and giving some more context.
>
> This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for
> volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API
> since the compute doesn't support that scenario.
>
> With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and
> a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot
> from volume works.
>
> The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the
> root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The
> semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this
> scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the
> volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would
> need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're
> replacing?
>
> Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server
> and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a
> rebuild?
>
> If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a
> lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up,
> otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.
>
> We need user (and operator) feedback on this issue and what they would
> expect to happen.
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Saverio Proto]

My idea is that if delete_on_termination flag is set to False the
Volume should never be deleted by Nova.

my 2 cents

Saverio

2018-03-14 15:10 GMT+01:00 Tim Bell :
> Matt,
>
> To add another scenario and make things even more difficult (sorry (), if the 
> original volume has snapshots, I don't think you can delete it.
>
> Tim
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Riedemann 
> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, 14 March 2018 at 14:55
> To: "openstack-...@lists.openstack.org" , 
> openstack-operators 
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume
>
> On 3/14/2018 3:42 AM, 李杰 wrote:
> >
> >  This is the spec about  rebuild a instance booted from
> > volume.In the spec,there is a
> >question about if we should delete the old root_volume.Anyone who
> > is interested in
> >booted from volume can help to review this. Any suggestion is
> > welcome.Thank you!
> >The link is here.
> >Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/
>
> Copying the operators list and giving some more context.
>
> This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for
> volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API
> since the compute doesn't support that scenario.
>
> With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and
> a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot
> from volume works.
>
> The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the
> root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The
> semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this
> scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the
> volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would
> need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're
> replacing?
>
> Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server
> and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a
> rebuild?
>
> If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a
> lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up,
> otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.
>
> We need user (and operator) feedback on this issue and what they would
> expect to happen.
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Tim Bell]

Matt,

To add another scenario and make things even more difficult (sorry (), if the 
original volume has snapshots, I don't think you can delete it.

Tim


-Original Message-
From: Matt Riedemann 
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 

Date: Wednesday, 14 March 2018 at 14:55
To: "openstack-...@lists.openstack.org" , 
openstack-operators 
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

On 3/14/2018 3:42 AM, 李杰 wrote:
> 
>  This is the spec about  rebuild a instance booted from 
> volume.In the spec,there is a
>question about if we should delete the old root_volume.Anyone who 
> is interested in
>booted from volume can help to review this. Any suggestion is 
> welcome.Thank you!
>The link is here.
>Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/

Copying the operators list and giving some more context.

This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for 
volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API 
since the compute doesn't support that scenario.

With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and 
a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot 
from volume works.

The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the 
root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The 
semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this 
scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the 
volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would 
need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're 
replacing?

Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server 
and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a 
rebuild?

If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a 
lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up, 
otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.

We need user (and operator) feedback on this issue and what they would 
expect to happen.

-- 

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [nova] about rebuild instance booted from volume

[Matt Riedemann]

On 3/14/2018 3:42 AM, 李杰 wrote:


             This is the spec about  rebuild a instance booted from 
volume.In the spec,there is a
       question about if we should delete the old root_volume.Anyone who 
is interested in
       booted from volume can help to review this. Any suggestion is 
welcome.Thank you!

       The link is here.
       Re:the rebuild spec:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/532407/


Copying the operators list and giving some more context.

This spec is proposing to add support for rebuild with a new image for 
volume-backed servers, which today is just a 400 failure in the API 
since the compute doesn't support that scenario.


With the proposed solution, the backing root volume would be deleted and 
a new volume would be created from the new image, similar to how boot 
from volume works.


The question raised in the spec is whether or not nova should delete the 
root volume even if its delete_on_termination flag is set to False. The 
semantics get a bit weird here since that flag was not meant for this 
scenario, it's meant to be used when deleting the server to which the 
volume is attached. Rebuilding a server is not deleting it, but we would 
need to replace the root volume, so what do we do with the volume we're 
replacing?


Do we say that delete_on_termination only applies to deleting a server 
and not rebuild and therefore nova can delete the root volume during a 
rebuild?


If we don't delete the volume during rebuild, we could end up leaving a 
lot of volumes lying around that the user then has to clean up, 
otherwise they'll eventually go over quota.


We need user (and operator) feedback on this issue and what they would 
expect to happen.


--

Thanks,

Matt

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