[opensuse] Re: legalities

[Eberhard Roloff]

Richard Creighton wrote:
>>> Actually, M$ have recently announced that they are extending support for
>>> XP, for some unknown reason people are not buying as many Vista copies
>>> as M$  expected :-)
>>> 
>> Few hundreds reasons per product.
>> Count is mostly 2 (Vista & MS Office) which comes out as one good computer 
>> upgrade (no monitor and accessories). 
>>
>>   
> Actually, from what I've seen in articles around, Vista wants
> state-of-the-art equipment to run and much of the legacy equipment just
> doesn't seem to want to run and a lot of people are balking at having to
> buy new computers just to buy a new OS and it's new and improved bugs.  
> One nice thing about Linuxso far... is that it historically allows
> people to almost run on their old 'junk' machines and still do useful
> work.   I hope this doesn't change any time soon even as it supports the
> newer equipment, I hope the old boxes aren't forgotten.

I fully aggree.

But, as sad as it is, as a matter of fact, you cannot buy a new computer
 without vista anymore. There are exceptions and there are business
machines that you still can order with XP, but in general, the new PC
market "is vista".

In consequence, within a year or two we will be living in a "mostly
vista" world, whether we like it or not.

Kind regards
Eberhard

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[opensuse] Re: legalities

[Eberhard Roloff]

Per Jessen wrote:
> Richard Creighton wrote:
> 
>> I cranked up 10.2 on a
>> 486DX-2 the other day just to see it run...slow, but it ran :)
> 
> How exactly did you manage that?  Have you got a 486-version of 10.2?  
> 
> I've got a 486DX2 machine running as firewall/gateway, but it's stuck on
> SuSE 7.1 - I would certainly be interested in getting it upgraded to
> 10.2.  The 256Mb yast memory requirement might be a problem, but I'm
> sure I'll find a way around that.
> 
> 
> /Per Jessen, Zürich
imho, for this machine, you are MUCH better off by using ipcop.

http://ipcop.org

kind regards
Eberhard

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Re: [opensuse] Re: legalities

[James Knott]

Eberhard Roloff wrote:
> I fully aggree.
>
> But, as sad as it is, as a matter of fact, you cannot buy a new computer
>  without vista anymore. There are exceptions and there are business
> machines that you still can order with XP, but in general, the new PC
> market "is vista".
>
> In consequence, within a year or two we will be living in a "mostly
> vista" world, whether we like it or not.
>
>   
Actually, there are many vendors who will sell without Windows or with
Linux installed.  For example, there's one company, located near my
home, that sells computers loaded with Linux or no OS, for less than the
same system with Windows.  There are also vendors that buy systems from
manufacturers and put Linux on.  And, we can't forget the local system
builders, who build custom systems, often without Windows.  Also, as I
mentioned in another note, "refurbs" are often available for low cost
and provided a good system to install Linux on.  If they come with
Windows, it'd likely be XP or 2000 and not Vista.

http://www.angelcomputer.com


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Re: [opensuse] Re: legalities

[Jerry Houston]

James Knott wrote:
> Actually, there are many vendors who will sell without Windows or with
> Linux installed.  For example, there's one company, located near my
> home, that sells computers loaded with Linux or no OS, for less than the
> same system with Windows.

Indeed.  Since we're "Microsoft Gold Partners" at work, we have no need
to buy operating systems again when we purchase computers.  (Our
licensing includes everything we need from them.)  We just bought a
buttload of new HP development machines that came directly from HP with
Linux (disguised as FreeDOS) on them, at a lower cost than if they'd
come with Windows installed.

The only annoying issue was that since they didn't have Windows on them,
they didn't have any Windows DRIVERS on them either.  I needed to
download all of those from HP and figure out what to install on a
system.  Once I got it working, we ghosted it and built the rest of the
machines from that image.

I'd be willing to bet that the eventual move to Vista will make this
sort of purchase even more common.  We could just as easily have
installed Linux on them instead of XP-Pro (but we create Windows-based
commercial software).

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Re: [opensuse] Re: legalities

[Richard Creighton]

Eberhard Roloff wrote:
> Per Jessen wrote:
>   
>> Richard Creighton wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I cranked up 10.2 on a
>>> 486DX-2 the other day just to see it run...slow, but it ran :)
>>>   
>> How exactly did you manage that?  Have you got a 486-version of 10.2?  
>>
>> I've got a 486DX2 machine running as firewall/gateway, but it's stuck on
>> SuSE 7.1 - I would certainly be interested in getting it upgraded to
>> 10.2.  The 256Mb yast memory requirement might be a problem, but I'm
>> sure I'll find a way around that.
>>
>>
>> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>> 
> imho, for this machine, you are MUCH better off by using ipcop.
>
> http://ipcop.org
>
> kind regards
> Eberhard
>   
This machine was a junker and I put a 'pull' drive that had an already
installed minimum install of 10.2 and lo and behold, it actually ran.  
Don't ask me how :)   I wasn't really expecting anything except maybe
the bios (if I was lucky) messages.   Would it have installed from a
CD?   Dunno, probably not but this was from a drive that already had an
installation on it from earler experiments and a self-compiled kernel
about a year ago, I guess.   It only ran for about 10 min before it
froze (heat) which is why I now remember I  pulled it in the first
place, but it was an interesting experiment non-the-less, and does
illustrate the 'Linux runs on junk as well as modern machines'.   Hell,
Linux is running in my TIVO Direct-TV DVR right now and probably my
washing machine :)  I went through a McDonalds/Wendys/BurgerKing (don't
wanna prejudice anyone)  drive up ordering podium to place an
orderIt was running Windows...It had the Blue Screen of Death
displayedI laughed my (four letter word for posterior) off!   I
don't support that chain anymore :)

Richard

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