Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Tony Alfrey]

JB2 wrote:

On Mon 28 January 08 09:42, Victor Antonio Chávez de Anda wrote:


B, baa. Baa, b, baa, b.


  Friggin' useless sheeple bowing to the Goracle.



You may object to the gentleman's posting of his off-topic request on 
the openSuSE list, you may object to his interpretation of the movie or 
the data presented in the movie, but calling him a "friggin' useless 
sheepie" simply diminishes your credibility and makes you seem petty and 
small.


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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[JB2]

On Mon 28 January 08 09:42, Victor Antonio Chávez de Anda wrote:

> B, baa. Baa, b, baa, b.

  Friggin' useless sheeple bowing to the Goracle.

-- 
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Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Don Raboud]

On Monday 28 January 2008 13:09, Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:
> > ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
> > not forcing new computers to have  to made.
>
> This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify it
> I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old. You
> will not be pleased.

I have an AMD K6 (1.4 GHz, 512 MB memory) that is definitely older than 4 
years. It has had SuSE (or whatever they were called at the time) 9.1, 9.3, 
10.1, 10.2 and currently has openSUSE 10.3 on it.

This is a desktop machine (no real server functions) but as a desktop my 
experience has been that each release *seems* faster than the previous one. 
(Most likely this is due to improvements in KDE specifically). 


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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Mike]

On Monday 28 January 2008 21:09, Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:
> > ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
> > not forcing new computers to have  to made.
>
> This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify
> it I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old.
> You will not be pleased.

Gee, that's odd. I've got it installed on an old dual AMD machine that I 
bought about 4 years ago, and it runs fine. It runs a lot better than 
the XP that was on it. I also installed it on an old AMD 1000 with less 
than a gig of ram. Runs circles around XP.

> Not that it's a bad thing that linux distributions keep aiming at the
> moving target "hardware".

It's a good thing, but backwards compatibility is one of the things I 
like best about linux. When all else fails, I can always get it running 
when the winXX stuff dies.

Mike

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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Wolfgang Woehl]

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Knott:

> I have it installed on my almost 6 year old notebook and it runs
> fine. The notebook has a 1.13 GHz P3.  It certainly runs better
> than XP on thatg same computer.

Ok, good for you. Some time ago a friend of mine wanted me to get her 
opensuse 10.2. I couldn't because her box had 256 mb ram only and the 
installer chocked on that.

Wolfgang
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Wolfgang Woehl]

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:
> ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
> not forcing new computers to have  to made.

This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify it 
I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old. You 
will not be pleased.

Not that it's a bad thing that linux distributions keep aiming at the 
moving target "hardware".

Wolfgang
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Carl Hartung]

On Mon January 28 2008 10:42:03 am Victor Antonio Chávez de Anda wrote:
> I watch this weekend the movie An Inconvenient Thuth and... i'm worried,
> i want cry... i feel so bad, really bad, i want help our planet

> don't know what else must be done... and thank you your read me.. we
> really need your help, thank you.

I know it is heartbreaking, Victor, but it is very important not to succumb to 
despair. There is hope if the majority undertakes tangible work, now, to 
address these critical problems on a local basis. There is strength in 
numbers and awareness and education are key. Please utilize the valuable 
resources, below, and distribute the links widely! Thanks so much for taking 
the initiative and God bless! -- Carl

* 
Note: spend a few days in the multimedia scientific/academic 'Lectures' 
section starting at page 7

and work your way up, chronologically, to the present.

* 
"Climate Science from Climate Scientists"
A great resource for debunking special interest misinformation.

* 
"Reduce Consumption: Produce Locally"

* 
"Preparing Local Governments for Energy and Climate Uncertainty"

* 
"Reliable Renewable Energy for a Post Carbon World"

* 
"Local Communities. Global Connections."

* 
"A Plan for a Sensible Energy Future"

* 
IMHO one of the *best* radio programs dedicated to climate change and peak 
oil; don't overlook the extensive multimedia library and show archive.
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Sloan]

Victor Antonio Chávez de Anda wrote:
> I watch this weekend the movie An Inconvenient Thuth and... i'm worried,
> i want cry... i feel so bad, really bad, i want help our planet, i
> change my lights in home, for some who save energy, i unplugged the
> things i'm not useing... 

I've started turning off my test servers when I'm not actually testing -

fair enough?

Joe
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Wolfgang Woehl]

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 Don Raboud:

> I have an AMD K6 (1.4 GHz, 512 MB memory) that is definitely older
> than 4 years. It has had SuSE (or whatever they were called at the
> time) 9.1, 9.3, 10.1, 10.2 and currently has openSUSE 10.3 on it.
>
> This is a desktop machine (no real server functions) but as a
> desktop my experience has been that each release *seems* faster
> than the previous one. (Most likely this is due to improvements in
> KDE specifically).

So Mike, James, Don, hats off. Using old hardware and not replacing it 
with the latest iron on a regular basis really does have a 
significant impact on energy consumption.

Wrt being pleased doing that: You are _so_ up for a ride whenever you 
choose to switch to contemporary hardware. I bet you a copy of 
BBC's "Changing World" that you will not go back to these old boxes 
with joy in your heart :)

Wolfgang

And Don, yes, KDE is getting slicker, same experience here.
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Wolfgang Woehl]

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 Mike:

> Gee, that's odd. I've got it installed on an old dual AMD machine
> that I bought about 4 years ago, and it runs fine. It runs a lot
> better than the XP that was on it. I also installed it on an old
> AMD 1000 with less than a gig of ram. Runs circles around XP.

So I stand corrected.

> --
> Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8

Err?
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[James Knott]

Wolfgang Woehl wrote:

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:

ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
not forcing new computers to have  to made.


This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify it 
I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old. You 
will not be pleased.


Not that it's a bad thing that linux distributions keep aiming at the 
moving target "hardware".


Wolfgang


I have it installed on my almost 6 year old notebook and it runs fine. 
The notebook has a 1.13 GHz P3.  It certainly runs better than XP on 
thatg same computer.



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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Sunny]

On Jan 28, 2008 3:25 PM, Wolfgang Woehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ok, good for you. Some time ago a friend of mine wanted me to get her
> opensuse 10.2. I couldn't because her box had 256 mb ram only and the
> installer chocked on that.
>

If you create a swap partition before you run the  installer, it will
use it, and will not complain. You can do so with any live distro like
knoppix, or Damn Small Linux.


-- 
Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just
a pile of scrap.
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[James Tremblay]

ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by not forcing 
new computers to have  to made.  Vista is demanding tons of new hardware 
plants to be built and that is one of the worst cases for pollution I know 
of.

James Tremblay  
Director of Technology
Newmarket School District
Newmarket NH 03857 
"let's make a difference"
http://en.opensuse.org/education
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Ken Schneider]

Wolfgang Woehl pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Knott:
> 
>> I have it installed on my almost 6 year old notebook and it runs
>> fine. The notebook has a 1.13 GHz P3.  It certainly runs better
>> than XP on thatg same computer.
> 
> Ok, good for you. Some time ago a friend of mine wanted me to get her 
> opensuse 10.2. I couldn't because her box had 256 mb ram only and the 
> installer chocked on that.
> 
> Wolfgang

Simply partition the disk ahead of time by booting any live CD/DVD and
create a swap partition. Then the install will go just fine. That's what
I do on my laptop with 256M of ram.

-- 
Ken Schneider
SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Greg Freemyer]

On Jan 28, 2008 4:52 PM, Wolfgang Woehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 Don Raboud:
>
> > I have an AMD K6 (1.4 GHz, 512 MB memory) that is definitely older
> > than 4 years. It has had SuSE (or whatever they were called at the
> > time) 9.1, 9.3, 10.1, 10.2 and currently has openSUSE 10.3 on it.
> >
> > This is a desktop machine (no real server functions) but as a
> > desktop my experience has been that each release *seems* faster
> > than the previous one. (Most likely this is due to improvements in
> > KDE specifically).
>
> So Mike, James, Don, hats off. Using old hardware and not replacing it
> with the latest iron on a regular basis really does have a
> significant impact on energy consumption.
>
> Wrt being pleased doing that: You are _so_ up for a ride whenever you
> choose to switch to contemporary hardware. I bet you a copy of
> BBC's "Changing World" that you will not go back to these old boxes
> with joy in your heart :)
>

Using old hardware also lets you justify building special purpose
machines.  Witness the P2  laptop w/128 MB of Ram I installed to this
weekend.  (And yes I had a lot of trouble because I did not know in
advance to reformat the drive and put a swap partition on it, but
eventually I got it.)

With that machine I plan to create a dedicated Weather Station Server.
 The speed needs are minimal, so this small little laptop should do
just fine.  I tried to use a much newer/bigger XP box.  Didn't even
stay running for 24 hours.

Greg
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Wolfgang Woehl]

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 Greg Freemyer:

> Using old hardware also lets you justify building special purpose
> machines.  Witness the P2  laptop w/128 MB of Ram I installed to
> this weekend.  (And yes I had a lot of trouble because I did not
> know in advance to reformat the drive and put a swap partition on
> it, but eventually I got it.)
>
> With that machine I plan to create a dedicated Weather Station
> Server. The speed needs are minimal, so this small little laptop
> should do just fine.

Neat
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Sloan]

Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:
>   
>> ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
>> not forcing new computers to have  to made.
>> 
>
> This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify it 
> I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old. You 
> will not be pleased.
>   

I recently installed suse 10.3 on a compaq box made in 2002, which I'm
using as our firewall/dns/dhcp server. Naturally I nuked beagle, but
having done that it works and it works well. Before that, our
firewall/dns/dhcp server was an old compaq w/ Pentium III 500 and 9 GB
drive, running suse 10.1, which also worked quite well.

Joe
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[James Knott]

Sloan wrote:
> Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
>   
>> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:
>>   
>> 
>>> ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
>>> not forcing new computers to have  to made.
>>> 
>>>   
>> This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify it 
>> I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old. You 
>> will not be pleased.
>>   
>> 
>
> I recently installed suse 10.3 on a compaq box made in 2002, which I'm
> using as our firewall/dns/dhcp server. Naturally I nuked beagle, but
> having done that it works and it works well. Before that, our
> firewall/dns/dhcp server was an old compaq w/ Pentium III 500 and 9 GB
> drive, running suse 10.1, which also worked quite well.
>
> Joe
>   
My firewall, currently running 10.0, is an 866 MHz P3 & 128 MB.  I'll
have to see how well it handles an upgrade to 10.3.

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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[James Knott]

Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Knott:
>
>   
>> I have it installed on my almost 6 year old notebook and it runs
>> fine. The notebook has a 1.13 GHz P3.  It certainly runs better
>> than XP on thatg same computer.
>> 
>
> Ok, good for you. Some time ago a friend of mine wanted me to get her 
> opensuse 10.2. I couldn't because her box had 256 mb ram only and the 
> installer chocked on that.
>
>   

I have a computer at work that has (IIRC) only 256 MB.  SUSE 10.2
installed on it OK.  I haven't got around to trying 10.3 yet.
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Wolfgang Woehl]

Montag, 28. Januar 2008 Sunny:
> On Jan 28, 2008 3:25 PM, Wolfgang Woehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ok, good for you. Some time ago a friend of mine wanted me to get
> > her opensuse 10.2. I couldn't because her box had 256 mb ram only
> > and the installer chocked on that.
>
> If you create a swap partition before you run the  installer, it
> will use it, and will not complain. You can do so with any live
> distro like knoppix, or Damn Small Linux.

Good to know. The installer might even suggest and offer to do just 
that. Instead it dies. Which is unpleasant and doesn't exactly give 
you the impression that old boxes are in the target range.

Call me a dork but it made me buy new hardware for her at the time :)

Wolfgang
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Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Felix Miata]

On 2008/01/28 21:09 (GMT+0100) Wolfgang Woehl apparently typed:

> Montag, 28. Januar 2008 James Tremblay:

>> ON a positive note , all of us who use linux are helping simply by
>> not forcing new computers to have  to made.

> This notion keeps popping up among linux people. To actually verify it 
> I suggest you install opensuse 10.3 on a box that's 4 years old. You 
> will not be pleased.

My latest 3 installs were Mandriva Cooker, 10.3 and Factory on one 5 year old
puter (Dell GX260 2000MHz P4 400). I have a houseful of puters. They average
probably around 5-6 years old. I have 10.3 and/or Factory on 10 in all, and
on neither of the two newest/fastest ones. The oldest of those 10 is a 10
year old BX440 with 100FSB running a PIII @ 700 MHz with 512M of PC100. All
the recent versions seem faster than the last, particularly compared to 9.1
and 9.2 with their early 2.6 kernels. Plenty of RAM helps more than a fast
CPU. I always partition prior to starting an installer, so there's always
swap to keep limited RAM from being an installation issue here.
-- 
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with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Fred A. Miller]

Carl Hartung wrote:
> On Mon January 28 2008 10:01:25 pm Stevens wrote:
>> Carl:
>>
>> Understand that Al Gore, a corrupt American politician who is
>> also dumb as a rock, will make tons of money off of people
>> stupid enough to go along with his scam. There is a difference
>> between pollution and global warming. Our 0.15% contribution
>> to greenhouse gasses does nothing to warm the planet but does
>> lots to foul our nest. Please keep those two things separate as
>> you watch this video:
>>
>> http://www.aconvenientfiction.com/inconvenient3.html
> 
> These people also produced a documentary asserting that breast implants were 
> GOOD for women.  What credentials! Then came "Against Nature," a documentary 
> which aired on the BBC which then had to issue a public apology for showing 
> it.
> 
> Get some SCIENCE not blather, Fred. And PLEASE post to the list!

Carl.you need better glasses!! I didn't post thissomeone else did.

Fred

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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Fred A. Miller]

Carl Hartung wrote:
> On Mon January 28 2008 09:41:50 pm Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> No Carl, YOU loose. ;) You mention NASA..read their most recent
>> data. They are predicting a mini-ice age again and to start soon that
>> will last 20 - 30 years, WITH famine and crop failures.
> 
> Fred:  Please post to the list!!!
> 
> You got a link to serve with that assertion? :-)

NO Carl, I'm quite busy.if you want to know the truth, go look it
up! The data was released in the last few days.

Fred

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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Fred A. Miller]

Carl Hartung wrote:
> On Mon January 28 2008 07:03:36 pm Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> So have I, and global warming is BAD science.PERIOD!!
> 
> I've read your posts for a long time, Fred. Generally speaking, you almost 
> always have an axe to grind in these kinds of exchanges (purposely avoiding 
> the word "debate" here because I've read only assertions and insults... the 
> opponents have no *science*]

You become slick tonged Carl when others don't agree with you.

You only read what pleases you, I guess.

> And PLEASE reply to the list! :-)

You can start here, Carl. Now, I know you won't like what you read and
will immediately state that ALL of the references here are from people
who don't know what they're talking about, aren't qualified, or
whatever. However, it may be educational for those who are interested in
the truth instead of holding onto a political agenda. Now, this is
off-topic and I'm done with it here.

Fred

http://www.environmentaldefense.org/page.cfm?tagid=1344
http://csicop.org/doubtandabout/crichton/
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wales-news/tm_headline=debunking-of-global-warming--bad-science-&method=full&objectid=18749397&siteid=50082-name_page.html
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58767
http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/3
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/bad_research_horrendous_report.html

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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[kanenas]

On Monday 28 January 2008 05:44:17 pm Fred A. Miller wrote:
> Carl Hartung wrote:
> > On Mon January 28 2008 10:01:25 pm Stevens wrote:
> >> Carl:
> >>
> >> Understand that Al Gore, a corrupt American politician who is
> >> also dumb as a rock, will make tons of money off of people
> >> stupid enough to go along with his scam. There is a difference
> >> between pollution and global warming. 

How absolutely pitifully true. Still, if something is actually accomplished, 
perhaps we can get a portion of it back with some tax... 

> >> Our 0.15% contribution 
> >> to greenhouse gasses does nothing to warm the planet 

that is as asinine are Gore's propaganda. Where on earth is there space for 
some truth?

> >> but does 
> >> lots to foul our nest. Please keep those two things separate 

perhaps you want to wait for a pollution documentary alone before anything 
gets done about that? perhaps then you can just divert attention to the 
shortcomings of the messenger again?

> >> as 
> >> you watch this video:
> >>
> >> http://www.aconvenientfiction.com/inconvenient3.html
> >
> > These people also produced a documentary asserting that breast implants
> > were GOOD for women.  What credentials!

Mainstream media and government  have had decades of opportunity to 
objectively present the true cost of various aspects of our technology. 
When "non professionals" try to undertake the task, there is much more 
roughness and error in the message. To just take the ridicule route or to 
say "it is not proven harmful yet" are extremely negative approaches, driven 
by anything but conservatism. There is nothing conservative if your doctor 
tells you that since you have no lung cancer, you could keep on smoking, 
why / how would it be conservative to use exactly the same reasoning and 
words about global warming?


> > Then came "Against Nature," a 
> > documentary which aired on the BBC which then had to issue a public
> > apology for showing it.
> >
> > Get some SCIENCE not blather, Fred. And PLEASE post to the list!

I absolutely agree. Yet it is a fact that the time scale for the real science 
re global warming is not exactly defined yet. And is is absolutely ludicrous 
that the likes of you refuse to err on the side of caution  while the science 
actually goes about it's sciencing. Should YOU be wrong, a simple "sorry" 
would definitely not do in 5, 10 or 20 years. Should the likes of Gore be 
wrong, we could always "off with their head or their money or both", our 
grandchildren would actually get a little bigger share of "our" oil and they 
might even get a chance to visit some remote south pacific atoll before the 
sea covers it.
wannabe a real conservative?

dimitris
 
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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[jdd]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :


I absolutely agree. Yet it is a fact that the time scale for the real science
re global warming is not exactly defined yet


some remarks here (but may be we should go to the OT list?)

* scientists have no evidence of why the climate warm nor how fast
* but the evidence IS the climate warm :-(
* who cares of why? the only thing we can do is act on *our* warming 
causes (we can't shut down volcanoes :-()


so make as many efforts as you can, prepare for storms and pray if you 
beleive in god...


jdd

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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Mike McMullin]

On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 22:42 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> Carl Hartung wrote:
> > On Mon January 28 2008 09:41:50 pm Fred A. Miller wrote:
> >> No Carl, YOU loose. ;) You mention NASA..read their most recent
> >> data. They are predicting a mini-ice age again and to start soon that
> >> will last 20 - 30 years, WITH famine and crop failures.
> > 
> > Fred:  Please post to the list!!!
> > 
> > You got a link to serve with that assertion? :-)
> 
> NO Carl, I'm quite busy.if you want to know the truth, go look it
> up! The data was released in the last few days.

  There are several hits on Google using "nasa predicts iceage",
including one Russian Scientist.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science/2006/02/07/scientist_predicts_mini_ice_age/2345/

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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Carl Hartung]

On Tue January 29 2008 06:07:20 am Mike McMullin wrote:
> There are several hits on Google using "nasa predicts iceage",
> including one Russian Scientist.

LOL! :-)  You guys are funny!

The *1971* hypothesized scenario widely discussed back then in the media is 
now being deceptively rebranded as a "NASA prediction."

Climate modeling on sliderules! LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

Sorry... time to go catch my breath! :-)

Carl
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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Carl Hartung]

On Tue January 29 2008 03:19:33 am [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> Our 0.15% contribution
> > >> to greenhouse gasses does nothing to warm the planet
>
> that is as asinine are Gore's propaganda. Where on earth is there space for
> some truth?

Right here. Thanks for asking! :-)
note: "AIT" = An Inconvenient Truth

- - - - - 8< - - - - -
The England and Wales High Court (Administrative Court) Decisions:

Justice Burton:

"I turn to AIT, the film. The following is clear:

i) It is substantially founded upon scientific research and fact, albeit 
that the science is used, in the hands of a talented politician and 
communicator, to make a political statement and to support a political 
programme.

ii) As Mr Chamberlain [note: the *Plaintiff*] persuasively sets out at 
paragraph 11 of his skeleton:

“The Film advances four main scientific hypotheses, each of which is very 
well supported by research published in respected, peer-reviewed journals and 
accords with the latest conclusions of the IPCC:

(1) global average temperatures have been rising significantly over the 
past half century and are likely to continue to rise (”climate change”);

(2) climate change is mainly attributable to man-made emissions of carbon 
dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide (”greenhouse gases”);

(3) climate change will, if unchecked, have significant adverse effects on 
the world and its populations; and

(4) there are measures which individuals and governments can take which 
will help to reduce climate change or mitigate its effects."
- - - - - 8< - - - - -

Now, a closer look at the opposition:

- - - - - 8< - - - - -
"Revealed: the man behind court attack on Gore film - Fuel and mining magnate 
backed UK challenge to An Inconvenient Truth"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2190770,00.html
- - - - - 8< - - - - -

I do not understand your meaning, below. Be more precise and succinct.

(I don't know you, or your motivations, but "muddying the waters" is a common 
tactic of the right. IOW, sowing confusion into the debate, like this: a) 
appearing to agree with both sides, b) leading up to clear conclusions then 
stating the opposite, c) incorporating vague and maladapted analogies, etc. 
Is this what you are engaging in?)

> Mainstream media and government  have had decades of opportunity to

> reasoning and words about global warming?

> > > Then came "Against Nature," a
> > > documentary which aired on the BBC which then had to issue a public
> > > apology for showing it.
> > >
> > > Get some SCIENCE not blather, Fred. And PLEASE post to the list!
>
> I absolutely agree.


Then leave it there!

> wannabe a real conservative?

What is the scientific definition of "conservative"? I am engaged here in an 
exchange concerning established scientific method and facts vs. politically 
motivated and dishonest junk and pseudo science.

Give me science, please, and stuff your politics!

Carl
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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Stevens]

Where are all the apoplectic, anal retentive dickheads on 
this list that were ready to crucify me for posting off-topic
material and why aren't they in here screaming about
this obviously way off topic discussion?

Hypocrite bastards.

Fred
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Re: [opensuse-offtopic] Re: [opensuse] URGENT!! (and don't be angry for the Subject of this mail)

[Henne Vogelsang]

Hi,

this thread stops now.

Henne

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Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE.
Everybody has a plan, until they get hit.
- Mike Tyson
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