Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On 11/5/06, James Ogley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of right clicking an application and choose Add to favorites? That involves opening the application browser, you can't do it currently from the Apps menu. Would help if this could be patched to interoperate better. I sort of like the way it is now. But I have changed it not to close the application browser when I open an application (also a gconf key). That is the way I use it. I don't want that to be the default setting. I know I work with some stuff in a different way than others. Is that because you'd choose to work like that or because, having been given the browser, you've adapted? Well it's the way I work. I usualy open upp 3 or 4 applications at once and have them open all day. So the application browser handles this great for me. Don't like to open the menu start my apllication open the menu start the application and so on. Now I open the menu click more applications and start my applications close the application browser. I haven't been able to do this earlier so this is a new way of working. But I like it alot. Warm Regards, Claes Backstrom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sun, 2006-11-05 at 15:34 +, James Ogley wrote: There is a way to change this. In gconf : /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item I think here's an important point and it affects the Favourite Applications section too. Bizarrely, it never occurred to me that that might be GConf controlled (turns out to be under /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/file-area) and I'm an uber-1337 GNOME-master (ahem). It looked like these were Novell's favourite apps. If gnome-main-menu is going to be seriously usable (especially if it's accepted into upstream), there needs to be an obvious way (perhaps a 'Choose Favourite Applications' button next to the 'More Applications' one) of editing this list. We were concerned about this, however in our user testing right click and drag and drop were found and used. The 'More Applications' list is another important thing to look at. At the moment, it launches the application browser which, frankly, is rubbish. It would make a lot more sense if pressing this button simply opened the Applications menu, as a menu. User testing did not show this to be rubbish actually. The speed at which it opens is an issue. User testing did show that hierarchical menus are awful for most users since they don't know where to look. There is an enhancement idea to make More Applications do more of a traditional menu as an *option* for users who do know what they are doing with a hierarchical menu however. -JP -- JP Rosevear [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell, Inc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sun, 2006-11-05 at 00:29 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote: Claes Bäckström [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? This might be possible already today with some gconf action. JP, do you know what needs to be done? If this is the case, let's document it on the wiki, As noted in another thread, you simply have to alter the following gconf keys: /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item (the system section item) /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/uninstall_package_command /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/upgrade_package_command (the right click options) We are working on a way to make the system area more easily configurable since that has been a frequent request, but that won't be in 10.2. -JP -- JP Rosevear [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell, Inc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On 11/5/06, Andreas Jaeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Claes Bäckström [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? This might be possible already today with some gconf action. JP, do you know what needs to be done? If this is the case, let's document it on the wiki, Yes it's possible to do in gconf. So it's simple to change. But for me it's a deeper question. What is the supported way to install software in openSUSE? That is what we should show the users primary. And if the recommended way is to use zen-installer then it should stay but if not we should change it. So far no one have stepped up and said no to change this. So do that mean that everyone thinks we should change this? Warm Regards, Claes Backstrom
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Claes Bäckström schrieb: Yes it's possible to do in gconf. So it's simple to change. But for me it's a deeper question. What is the supported way to install software in openSUSE? YaST2 sw_single and Zen-Installer are equally supported. (Well, if you ask me, shipping two tools that do basically the same thing in fundamentally different ways isn't the smartest thing to do in the first place, but that's just a personal opinion.) That is what we should show the users primary. And if the recommended way is to use zen-installer then it should stay but if not we should change it. This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer. So far no one have stepped up and said no to change this. So do that mean that everyone thinks we should change this? No. Not all involved people are subscribed to this list, and don't forget that it's Sunday and the request to change this was made on a Saturday. Andreas Hanke - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sunday 05 November 2006 13:48, Andreas Hanke wrote: Claes Bäckström schrieb: Yes it's possible to do in gconf. So it's simple to change. But for me it's a deeper question. What is the supported way to install software in openSUSE? YaST2 sw_single and Zen-Installer are equally supported. (Well, if you ask me, shipping two tools that do basically the same thing in fundamentally different ways isn't the smartest thing to do in the first place, but that's just a personal opinion.) Don't forget opensuse-installer (like zmd-installer except it uses libzypp directly instead of zmd) This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer. This is something that should be added to opensuse-installer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On 11/5/06, Andreas Hanke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Claes Bäckström schrieb:
Yes it's possible to do in gconf. So it's simple to change. But for me
it's a deeper question. What is the supported way to install
software in openSUSE?
YaST2 sw_single and Zen-Installer are equally supported. (Well, if you
ask me, shipping two tools that do basically the same thing in
fundamentally different ways isn't the smartest thing to do in the first
place, but that's just a personal opinion.)
And soon we will even have a 3'rd tool to do this if I haven't
misunderstood opensuse-installer. Is this the way of the future or
will these 3 tools merge and perhaps only have 3 different gui
(ncurses, qt and gtk)? And is there a roadmap for this, meaning will
this happen in 1 release or 10 releases of openSUSE? (I agree with
your personal view in this matter.)
That is what we should show the users primary.
And if the recommended way is to use zen-installer then it should stay
but if not we should change it.
This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd
permissions system so that people can use it without the root password
on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer.
Will yast2 sw_single handle this too in the future? In connections
with the question above.
So far no one have stepped up and said no to change this. So do that
mean that everyone thinks we should change this?
No. Not all involved people are subscribed to this list, and don't
forget that it's Sunday and the request to change this was made on a
Saturday.
Yes I know. This comment from from me was to show that I think this is
something I want to hear comments about. Both people that like me
thinks that is should change and from people thinking it won't change.
So I threw this out just to get comments. Not morally right perhaps
but it worked. :-)
What is the best place to discuss things like this? As I'm new to
openSUSE. Been in the Debian Camp for 6 years. But now I have moved
here.
Warm Regards,
Claes Backstrom
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SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sunday 05 November 2006 14:13, Claes Bäckström wrote: And soon we will even have a 3'rd tool to do this if I haven't misunderstood opensuse-installer. Is this the way of the future or will these 3 tools merge and perhaps only have 3 different gui (ncurses, qt and gtk)? And is there a roadmap for this, meaning will this happen in 1 release or 10 releases of openSUSE? (I agree with your personal view in this matter.) The goal is to have everything done by libzypp. Then there can be as many GUI front ends as people care to write, they will all be able to work together, since they all will use the same backend - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
There is a way to change this. In gconf : /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item I think here's an important point and it affects the Favourite Applications section too. Bizarrely, it never occurred to me that that might be GConf controlled (turns out to be under /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/file-area) and I'm an uber-1337 GNOME-master (ahem). It looked like these were Novell's favourite apps. If gnome-main-menu is going to be seriously usable (especially if it's accepted into upstream), there needs to be an obvious way (perhaps a 'Choose Favourite Applications' button next to the 'More Applications' one) of editing this list. The 'More Applications' list is another important thing to look at. At the moment, it launches the application browser which, frankly, is rubbish. It would make a lot more sense if pressing this button simply opened the Applications menu, as a menu. -- James Ogley [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Hello, Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 13:53 schrieb Anders Johansson: On Sunday 05 November 2006 13:48, Andreas Hanke wrote: [...] This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer. This is something that should be added to opensuse-installer. NO! I consider the ZMD permission system broken by design (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215619) and it would be fatal to add the same broken thing to opensuse-installer/updater. If you _really_ like the zmd permission system, please continue using zen-installer ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- xslt, was? Wir kombinieren das Paradigma von awk mit der sprachlichen Eleganz von Cobol und den programmiertechnischen Verrenkungen von funktionalen Sprachen unter sorgfältiger Umgehung aller möglichen Vorteile.[Kristian Köhntopp] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sunday 05 November 2006 18:21, Christian Boltz wrote: Hello, Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 13:53 schrieb Anders Johansson: On Sunday 05 November 2006 13:48, Andreas Hanke wrote: [...] This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer. This is something that should be added to opensuse-installer. NO! I consider the ZMD permission system broken by design (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215619) and it would be fatal to add the same broken thing to opensuse-installer/updater. If you _really_ like the zmd permission system, please continue using zen-installer ;-) I like the fact that root can delegate some administrative tasks like software management to other administrators without their having to get the root password That bug report is slightly strange, since it seems to say if root does everything, the system is safe but role based administration has long been deemed better by many If I, a hypothetical malicious hacker, gain access to your account, and you do stuff with sudo or su, you're already lost, since if I'm logged in to your account, I can sniff your keyboard No security system is perfect, and if a cracker gains local access, you are in trouble. But if you can't trust the people you assign as admins, you have bigger problems than computer security - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 06:34:15PM +0100, Anders Johansson wrote: On Sunday 05 November 2006 18:21, Christian Boltz wrote: Hello, Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 13:53 schrieb Anders Johansson: On Sunday 05 November 2006 13:48, Andreas Hanke wrote: [...] This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer. This is something that should be added to opensuse-installer. NO! I consider the ZMD permission system broken by design (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215619) and it would be fatal to add the same broken thing to opensuse-installer/updater. If you _really_ like the zmd permission system, please continue using zen-installer ;-) I like the fact that root can delegate some administrative tasks like software management to other administrators without their having to get the root password That bug report is slightly strange, since it seems to say if root does everything, the system is safe but role based administration has long been deemed better by many If I, a hypothetical malicious hacker, gain access to your account, and you do stuff with sudo or su, you're already lost, since if I'm logged in to your account, I can sniff your keyboard No security system is perfect, and if a cracker gains local access, you are in trouble. But if you can't trust the people you assign as admins, you have bigger problems than computer security Actually I would really delegate this to su wrappers, like sudo or kdesu instead of introducing yet another security model. Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sunday 05 November 2006 18:50, Marcus Meissner wrote: Actually I would really delegate this to su wrappers, like sudo or kdesu instead of introducing yet another security model. Ideally it should be a capability (the capability system in linux really should be expanded - and used more) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
* Anders Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Nov 05. 2006 18:33]: I like the fact that root can delegate some administrative tasks like software management to other administrators without their having to get the root password We all do. However, zen-installer currently implements its own way of 'role based access'. So does resmgr, policykit, etc. Wouldn't it be nice to have a single, secure, system-wide mechanism to provide access control ? Future versions of the package patch management hopefully can make use of such a system. Klaus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Instead of right clicking an application and choose Add to favorites? That involves opening the application browser, you can't do it currently from the Apps menu. Would help if this could be patched to interoperate better. I sort of like the way it is now. But I have changed it not to close the application browser when I open an application (also a gconf key). That is the way I use it. I don't want that to be the default setting. I know I work with some stuff in a different way than others. Is that because you'd choose to work like that or because, having been given the browser, you've adapted? What do other people think about this? I just want to be clear, on the whole I think the new main menu is pretty good, it just has some little niggles. -- James Ogley [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Hello, Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 19:21 schrieb Klaus Kaempf: [...] Wouldn't it be nice to have a single, secure, system-wide mechanism to provide access control ? Future versions of the package patch management hopefully can make use of such a system. Sounds much better ;-) (I also like Marcus' idea about using sudo and/or kdesu.) For the records: I'd like to have the following permission levels in the package management: a) check for updates (suse-watcher style) b) install updates (including uninstalling obsolete and installing new requirements from existing installation sources) c) install / remove any package from existing installation sources The problem with zen-updater is that it currently needs b) and c), therefore people can easily add and remove other packages with zen-installer/-remover even if the admin isn't aware of this. Regards, Christian Boltz -- Wer News über ein Webinterface liest, filmt auch die Tageszeitung, um sie auf dem Fernseher anzuschauen.[Henning Schlottmann] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Sunday 05 November 2006 22:55, Christian Boltz wrote: Hello, Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 19:21 schrieb Klaus Kaempf: [...] Wouldn't it be nice to have a single, secure, system-wide mechanism to provide access control ? Future versions of the package patch management hopefully can make use of such a system. Sounds much better ;-) (I also like Marcus' idea about using sudo and/or kdesu.) Much better than what? I thought your main objection was the granularity of the security, not how it was implemented sudo is basically a hack, it's better to have a real solution for the system, a real role based administration system. Preferably something where you can define new roles with new authorities for new features, without having to recompile everything For the records: I'd like to have the following permission levels in the package management: a) check for updates (suse-watcher style) view b) install updates (including uninstalling obsolete and installing new requirements from existing installation sources) install (except for the removal bit) c) install / remove any package from existing installation sources install, remove The problem with zen-updater is that it currently needs b) and c), therefore people can easily add and remove other packages with zen-installer/-remover even if the admin isn't aware of this. In other words, you'd be happy if zen added the security level update, which only allows for updates of already installed packages, and allows for removals if they were forced through dependency checks, is that right? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Hi I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? Warm Regards, Claes Backstrom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Lørdag 04 november 2006 19:44 skrev Claes Bäckström: I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? I doubt your request would be accepted, but you can file it as an enhancement and find out. You can also just edit the menu entry to run yast2 sw_single as root or with gnomesu instead of zen-updater. Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On Saturday 04 November 2006 18:44, Claes Bäckström wrote: Hi I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? Warm Regards, Claes Backstrom It whould be good to have an option in the control panel that would let a user choose which program took care of this. I'd file it as an enhancement request - it could be useful to all Gnome users across distributions. Cheers Pete - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
On 11/4/06, Pete Connolly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 04 November 2006 18:44, Claes Bäckström wrote: Hi I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? It whould be good to have an option in the control panel that would let a user choose which program took care of this. I'd file it as an enhancement request - it could be useful to all Gnome users across distributions. There is a way to change this. In gconf : /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item But I think that people mostly want to manage software not only install. And I haven't found any way to do that in zen-installer. So that's why I want it to change. Warm Regards, Claes
Re: [opensuse-factory] Remove zen-installer from gnome-main-menu
Claes Bäckström [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi I would like that when I choose install software in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer. Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla? This might be possible already today with some gconf action. JP, do you know what needs to be done? If this is the case, let's document it on the wiki, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpHnVOBnknbB.pgp Description: PGP signature
