Tor-ramdisk 20091123 (i686) and 20091124 (MIPS) released
Hi everyone, I want to announce to the list that new rleases of tor-ramdisk are out. Tor-ramdisk is an i686 and MIPS uClibc-based micro Linux distribution whose only purpose is to host a Tor server in an environment that maximizes security and privacy. Security is enhenced by hardening the kernel and binaries, and privacy is enhanced by forcing logging to be off at all levels so that even the Tor operator only has access to minimal information. Finally, since everything runs in ephemeral memory, no information survives a reboot, except for the Tor configuration file and the private RSA key, which may be exported/imported by FTP. Changelog: These releases update tor to 0.2.1.20 and busybox to 1.15.2 on both architectures. Users are encouraged to upgrade since these updates address issues which may effect the memroy-restricted ramdisk environment. Nodes simba and mufasa have been running the i686 and MIPS versions for about one week in the wild. i686: Homepage: http://opensource.dyc.edu/tor-ramdisk Download: http://opensource.dyc.edu/tor-ramdisk-downloads MIPS: Homepage: http://opensource.dyc.edu/tor-mips-ramdisk Download: http://opensource.dyc.edu/tor-mips-ramdisk-downloads -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Chair of Information Technology D'Youville College Buffalo, NY 14201 USA (716) 829-8197 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
livejournal ban tor-nodes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Livejournal has blocked access to that resource through the Tor. It is certainly the consequence of purshasing the LJ of Russian company SUP by order of Putin and FSB. That decision of Russian powers of purshacing the LJ was adopted because many Russian oppositionists used it in the conditions of suffocation of freedom of speech by Putin's bloody fascist regim. I think that all progressive humanity must require from the US President B. Obama to order the FBI to investigate the circumstances of purshasing the LJ by Russian company that was acted obviously as an agent of Russian secret services against the foundations of the constitutional order of the USA. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksMSk0ACgkQV59uvM2EEnfgIgCcDy8Owq4RcE15xlEm8fwcJrDy DqsAoKRewaepDe472vseltErbKC0KiEU =kAxW -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: livejournal ban tor-nodes
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:04 PM, James Brown jbrownfi...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Livejournal has blocked access to that resource through the Tor. It is certainly the consequence of purshasing the LJ of Russian company SUP by order of Putin and FSB. That decision of Russian powers of purshacing the LJ was adopted because many Russian oppositionists used it in the conditions of suffocation of freedom of speech by Putin's bloody fascist regim. I think that all progressive humanity must require from the US President B. Obama to order the FBI to investigate the circumstances of purshasing the LJ by Russian company that was acted obviously as an agent of Russian secret services against the foundations of the constitutional order of the USA. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksMSk0ACgkQV59uvM2EEnfgIgCcDy8Owq4RcE15xlEm8fwcJrDy DqsAoKRewaepDe472vseltErbKC0KiEU =kAxW -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talk in the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/ I appreciate your passion for this issue, but this isn't a mailing list for political issues. Thank you for the update on Tor, please keep the political content to a minimum. -Brian -- Feel free to contact me using PGP Encryption: Key Id: 0x3AA70848 Available from: http://keys.gnupg.net *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: livejournal ban tor-nodes
James Brown wrote: The Livejournal has blocked access to that resource through the Tor. It is certainly the consequence of purshasing the LJ of Russian company SUP by order of Putin and FSB. That decision of Russian powers of purshacing the LJ was adopted because many Russian oppositionists used it in the conditions of suffocation of freedom of speech by Putin's bloody fascist regim. I think that all progressive humanity must require from the US President B. Obama to order the FBI to investigate the circumstances of purshasing the LJ by Russian company that was acted obviously as an agent of Russian secret services against the foundations of the constitutional order of the USA. Hello, I'm heading over to the LJ offices (in San Francisco) to discuss this ban with them in the next thirty minutes. I'll let you know how it goes and why it happened. Best, Jacob signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: livejournal ban tor-nodes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jacob Appelbaum wrote: James Brown wrote: The Livejournal has blocked access to that resource through the Tor. It is certainly the consequence of purshasing the LJ of Russian company SUP by order of Putin and FSB. That decision of Russian powers of purshacing the LJ was adopted because many Russian oppositionists used it in the conditions of suffocation of freedom of speech by Putin's bloody fascist regim. I think that all progressive humanity must require from the US President B. Obama to order the FBI to investigate the circumstances of purshasing the LJ by Russian company that was acted obviously as an agent of Russian secret services against the foundations of the constitutional order of the USA. Hello, I'm heading over to the LJ offices (in San Francisco) to discuss this ban with them in the next thirty minutes. I'll let you know how it goes and why it happened. Best, Jacob Very thanks -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksMbL8ACgkQV59uvM2EEnch9QCgnmMZezX08Dl+m9MhkL1G26hY 00kAn1IFkaF2fquwxmoY09TfbFBT0CBK =+CwK -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In the context of the above information concerning the ban of Tor's nodes by the LJ (and in other such cases) I have an idea to provide in the Tor net for non-public exit-notes. This solution will be very, very useful for residents of the countries under tyrannical and fascist regimes like Russia and such others. P.S. It is very important for residents of such countries because only such measures can support liberty of speach and privacy for their. I want all you to know that after many proceedingses against bloggers and other Internet users in Russian ended conditional sentences the Putin's gestapo was arrest a young girl in Moscow for her writing on Internets forums etc. on September, 2009. I think that it is not a last arrest of bloggers in Russia. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksMcZ0ACgkQV59uvM2EEnehCACcCp9r1/pcgRirXWMLy+2RfkOd +VsAn2p7Vik5PGnealNQzud3Crtvb3U+ =Izdq -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
(FWD) Vidalia bundle upgrade fails on OS X
[Forwarding since this address isn't subscribed to the list. I also took the liberty of changing the subject line -- I suspect the problem is that you had an old install of the Vidalia bundle on your OS X, and you tried to upgrade to the new drag-and-drop one. You should instead uninstall the old one, and install the new one fresh. The specific problem here is that if you upgrade wrong, Vidalia doesn't learn the correct command-line arguments to use when it launches Polipo. -RD] - Forwarded message from owner-or-t...@freehaven.net - To: or-t...@seul.org From: C. LeBaron leba...@eml.cc Subject: Torbutton proxy test fails Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:36:16 +0100 Hello, I installed the latest stable Vidalia bundle (0.2.1.20-0.2.6) on mac os 10.6.2, Tor starts but Torbutton's test fails. polipo is listening on port 8123, so i did replace 8118 by 8123 in Torbutton prefs, to no avail. I removed privoxy stuff like /Library/Privoxy manually. Does it ring a bell ? - End forwarded message - *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 02:51 +0300, James Brown wrote: In the context of the above information concerning the ban of Tor's nodes by the LJ (and in other such cases) I have an idea to provide in the Tor net for non-public exit-notes. This solution will be very, very useful for residents of the countries under tyrannical and fascist regimes like Russia and such others. P.S. It is very important for residents of such countries because only such measures can support liberty of speach and privacy for their. I want all you to know that after many proceedingses against bloggers and other Internet users in Russian ended conditional sentences the Putin's gestapo was arrest a young girl in Moscow for her writing on Internets forums etc. on September, 2009. I think that it is not a last arrest of bloggers in Russia. I like this idea, but I doubt that you'll get much support for it because it goes against the Tor network's reputation of if you want to block us, you can. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: livejournal ban tor-nodes
James Brown wrote: Jacob Appelbaum wrote: James Brown wrote: The Livejournal has blocked access to that resource through the Tor. It is certainly the consequence of purshasing the LJ of Russian company SUP by order of Putin and FSB. That decision of Russian powers of purshacing the LJ was adopted because many Russian oppositionists used it in the conditions of suffocation of freedom of speech by Putin's bloody fascist regim. I think that all progressive humanity must require from the US President B. Obama to order the FBI to investigate the circumstances of purshasing the LJ by Russian company that was acted obviously as an agent of Russian secret services against the foundations of the constitutional order of the USA. Hello, I'm heading over to the LJ offices (in San Francisco) to discuss this ban with them in the next thirty minutes. I'll let you know how it goes and why it happened. Best, Jacob Very thanks Hello again, In summary: Mike Perry and I just had a visit to the San Francisco Livejournal office. The servers at LJ are currently being abused by two users in Russia. They are currently blocking access to all of the Tor exit nodes with a rather crufty (but effective) screen scrape of some Tor status page. They'd like to lift this ban and they'd like to see the abuse stop. They recognize that many legitimate users are now out in the cold and they'd like to allow Tor to access LJ. The service abusing their systems is http://lj2rss.net.ru/; lj2rss provides a user with an RSS feed of their LJ friends page (normally a paid service). LJ considers this abuse and has attempted to block this service. Lj2rss was previously run through basic HTTP proxies. It has apparently evolved as a service. The lj2rss people decided to ditch HTTP proxies for the public Tor network. This has caused LJ to filter _all_ access from the Tor network as a quick hack to block their service. LJ is unhappy with this as they realize this means that many people are not able to reach LJ. They want to find a solution to this total method of blocking. They only want to stop lj2rss and not everyone who actually needs Tor to legitimately use LJ. We've suggested that rather than outright blocking, users should be redirected (http 302 rather than 502) to a status page explaining the outage information. We've also suggested they can have user puzzles or require a specific login (paid accounts or flagged in some way). As far as I can tell, this is not a conspiracy by SUP or any other measure taken on behalf of SUP. The sysadmins at LJ are simply trying to combat someone abusing their service. LJ said that they're going to change their status page shortly to explain the block. They're also working on methods to block the lj2rss people and not every single user of the Tor network. I hope this is helpful and that the users of Tor will be able to access LJ services again shortly. Best, Jacob signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:49 -0500, Roger Dingledine wrote: See especially point #1: even if we didn't tell clients about the list of relays directly, somebody could still make a lot of connections through Tor to a test site and build a list of the addresses they see. I guess we could perhaps add support for configuring your own secret exit node that your buddy runs for you. But at that point the anonymity that Tor can provide in that situation gets pretty fuzzy. It's like a bridge, but for exits. They would probably have to be a lot less friend-to-friend than bridges, but it might still be doable. I think this is what the original poster meant, anyways. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
Interesting idea, but seems like it could be pretty dangerous. If an attacker was able to figure out the subset of Tor users taking advantage of these special exits and ran one themselves then correlation probably wouldn't be too difficult. In addition, abuse issues makes finding exit operators a lot harder than bridges so you probably wouldn't get the vast number of volunteers needed for the current bridge distribution tactics. -Damian On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Ted Smith ted...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:49 -0500, Roger Dingledine wrote: See especially point #1: even if we didn't tell clients about the list of relays directly, somebody could still make a lot of connections through Tor to a test site and build a list of the addresses they see. I guess we could perhaps add support for configuring your own secret exit node that your buddy runs for you. But at that point the anonymity that Tor can provide in that situation gets pretty fuzzy. It's like a bridge, but for exits. They would probably have to be a lot less friend-to-friend than bridges, but it might still be doable. I think this is what the original poster meant, anyways.
Re: livejournal ban tor-nodes
Jacob Appelbaum wrote: James Brown wrote: Jacob Appelbaum wrote: James Brown wrote: The Livejournal has blocked access to that resource through the Tor. It is certainly the consequence of purshasing the LJ of Russian company SUP by order of Putin and FSB. That decision of Russian powers of purshacing the LJ was adopted because many Russian oppositionists used it in the conditions of suffocation of freedom of speech by Putin's bloody fascist regim. I think that all progressive humanity must require from the US President B. Obama to order the FBI to investigate the circumstances of purshasing the LJ by Russian company that was acted obviously as an agent of Russian secret services against the foundations of the constitutional order of the USA. Hello, I'm heading over to the LJ offices (in San Francisco) to discuss this ban with them in the next thirty minutes. I'll let you know how it goes and why it happened. Best, Jacob Very thanks Hello again, In summary: Mike Perry and I just had a visit to the San Francisco Livejournal office. The servers at LJ are currently being abused by two users in Russia. They are currently blocking access to all of the Tor exit nodes with a rather crufty (but effective) screen scrape of some Tor status page. They'd like to lift this ban and they'd like to see the abuse stop. They recognize that many legitimate users are now out in the cold and they'd like to allow Tor to access LJ. The service abusing their systems is http://lj2rss.net.ru/; lj2rss provides a user with an RSS feed of their LJ friends page (normally a paid service). LJ considers this abuse and has attempted to block this service. Lj2rss was previously run through basic HTTP proxies. It has apparently evolved as a service. The lj2rss people decided to ditch HTTP proxies for the public Tor network. This has caused LJ to filter _all_ access from the Tor network as a quick hack to block their service. LJ is unhappy with this as they realize this means that many people are not able to reach LJ. They want to find a solution to this total method of blocking. They only want to stop lj2rss and not everyone who actually needs Tor to legitimately use LJ. We've suggested that rather than outright blocking, users should be redirected (http 302 rather than 502) to a status page explaining the outage information. We've also suggested they can have user puzzles or require a specific login (paid accounts or flagged in some way). As far as I can tell, this is not a conspiracy by SUP or any other measure taken on behalf of SUP. The sysadmins at LJ are simply trying to combat someone abusing their service. LJ said that they're going to change their status page shortly to explain the block. They're also working on methods to block the lj2rss people and not every single user of the Tor network. I hope this is helpful and that the users of Tor will be able to access LJ services again shortly. Best, Jacob Thank you for checking this out and getting the facts back to the community so quickly. - K *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
I'm not sure that the correlation attacks for `bridge exits' are better than those for normal bridges. However, the `exit risk' would likely be more discouraging to such `bridge exits'. However, as a more general question, making the Tor network difficult to completely enumerate might be interesting. Clearly, there are valuable advantages to a hard-to-map network, but can it be done without gross disadvantages? 2009/11/24 Damian Johnson atag...@gmail.com Interesting idea, but seems like it could be pretty dangerous. If an attacker was able to figure out the subset of Tor users taking advantage of these special exits and ran one themselves then correlation probably wouldn't be too difficult. In addition, abuse issues makes finding exit operators a lot harder than bridges so you probably wouldn't get the vast number of volunteers needed for the current bridge distribution tactics. -Damian On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Ted Smith ted...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:49 -0500, Roger Dingledine wrote: See especially point #1: even if we didn't tell clients about the list of relays directly, somebody could still make a lot of connections through Tor to a test site and build a list of the addresses they see. I guess we could perhaps add support for configuring your own secret exit node that your buddy runs for you. But at that point the anonymity that Tor can provide in that situation gets pretty fuzzy. It's like a bridge, but for exits. They would probably have to be a lot less friend-to-friend than bridges, but it might still be doable. I think this is what the original poster meant, anyways.
Danish TPB DNS Blocks
A number of Danish ISPs have blocked thepiratebay.org, by redirecting the DNS entry for that domain to a page stating that the site is blocked. This sometimes results in Danish exits giving this inappropriate result for that domain. Should the IP addresses of those ISPs be automatically given the badexit flag, since they don't do DNS in a correct and neutral way?
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roger Dingledine wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 02:51:57AM +0300, James Brown wrote: Alas, livejournal's hand here might be forced by their new owners. In that case, the only answer I can think of is for everybody in the affected countries to jump ship. --Roger It is a very good idea, but if they didn't if after purshasing the LG of the SUP - I think it will be very difficult to convince them do it now. Many of them (not am I - after my arrest in the year 2007 I use only the Tor for either activities in blogs or for banking transations) don't use the Tor. I tell many of them to use the Tor but they don't do it even after arrests of their comrades. Russian mentalty... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksMx3oACgkQV59uvM2EEndfKQCgj6Lqs4dTux4z1AR55mPfERrq fRgAoKDtYBWzCtiCq1ECJEYEB5bosb7w =QiPw -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: livejournal ban tor-nodes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jacob Appelbaum wrote: Hello again, In summary: Mike Perry and I just had a visit to the San Francisco Livejournal office. The servers at LJ are currently being abused by two users in Russia. They are currently blocking access to all of the Tor exit nodes with a rather crufty (but effective) screen scrape of some Tor status page. They'd like to lift this ban and they'd like to see the abuse stop. They recognize that many legitimate users are now out in the cold and they'd like to allow Tor to access LJ. The service abusing their systems is http://lj2rss.net.ru/; lj2rss provides a user with an RSS feed of their LJ friends page (normally a paid service). LJ considers this abuse and has attempted to block this service. Lj2rss was previously run through basic HTTP proxies. It has apparently evolved as a service. The lj2rss people decided to ditch HTTP proxies for the public Tor network. This has caused LJ to filter _all_ access from the Tor network as a quick hack to block their service. LJ is unhappy with this as they realize this means that many people are not able to reach LJ. They want to find a solution to this total method of blocking. They only want to stop lj2rss and not everyone who actually needs Tor to legitimately use LJ. We've suggested that rather than outright blocking, users should be redirected (http 302 rather than 502) to a status page explaining the outage information. We've also suggested they can have user puzzles or require a specific login (paid accounts or flagged in some way). As far as I can tell, this is not a conspiracy by SUP or any other measure taken on behalf of SUP. The sysadmins at LJ are simply trying to combat someone abusing their service. LJ said that they're going to change their status page shortly to explain the block. They're also working on methods to block the lj2rss people and not every single user of the Tor network. I hope this is helpful and that the users of Tor will be able to access LJ services again shortly. Best, Jacob Very thanks. But did they say you about a character of that abuse? I thin that only an RSS feed of LJ friends pages is not a serious ground for blocking the Tor network. If they did such not by order of the SUP for protection of the Russian dictatorship I can't understand why the SUP by they 2 years ago. For latent shadowing against Russian oppositionists for the Federal security service of Russia? I was very sleepy when you wrote your letter (it was about 3 a.m at my place) and I coudn't recognize that I could try ask them a question concerning the next. By the information of Russian press (see, particularly http://www.newsru.com/russia/10nov2009/vkontakte.html ) the secret services of Russia arrested estimated murders of Markelov (many people in Russia think that they are not real murders because real economic base of Markelov's murder was deforestation of the Khimki forest against which Markelov fighted and any version about the revenge of nationalists have not under it real economic and money base and seems very absurd) through LJ activity of them. In accordance with this information they had access to the LJ not through the Tor but through the specific public wifi - so-called WIMAX, from account registered on assumed name. So, the Russian secret services had needed an information about ip-addresses of those users of the LJ for computing their through triangulation with beam gain antennas. So, we can suspect that those ip-addresses were given to Russian secret services by the SUP besides the official inquiry of Russian authorities to the US authorities (as I know there is not an agreement on mutual assistance in criminal matters between Russia and the USA). If it was really so, it was an obvious interference of Russian government in internal affairs of the USA in accordance with international law. I don't know about the US criminal law but such actions are examined as an espionage by the Russain Criminal Code. I think that the notion of an espionage is approximately equal in all countries. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksM2iUACgkQV59uvM2EEneqTQCgjZORDlYar+tyS6MVny5R3k1b lCQAn3TeFktNNqtPgijaM++CTZM5RR+4 =rY2h -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ted Smith wrote: On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:49 -0500, Roger Dingledine wrote: It's like a bridge, but for exits. They would probably have to be a lot less friend-to-friend than bridges, but it might still be doable. I think this is what the original poster meant, anyways. Yes, I meant exactly that. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAksM2tYACgkQV59uvM2EEneEAACeM9khoGTZmKTBwl69BfODb8gh +3cAni4Ztd0kwB1jyi/pok527dTAxVH/ =4tlA -END PGP SIGNATURE- *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: AN idea of non-public exit-nodes
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:09:16 +0300 James Brown jbrownfi...@gmail.com wrote: Roger Dingledine wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 02:51:57AM +0300, James Brown wrote: Alas, livejournal's hand here might be forced by their new owners. In that case, the only answer I can think of is for everybody in the affected countries to jump ship. --Roger It is a very good idea, but if they didn't if after purshasing the LG of the SUP - I think it will be very difficult to convince them do it now. Many of them (not am I - after my arrest in the year 2007 I use only the Tor for either activities in blogs or for banking transations) don't use the Tor. I tell many of them to use the Tor but they don't do it even after arrests of their comrades. Russian mentalty... Yes, one certainly has to wonder whether it is a wasted effort to help those who *do not want* to help themselves. Those who wish to surrender are probably those we should thank for purging themselves from the gene pool. OTOH, your efforts to inform them at large will probably help the few who *do* wish to defend themselves but simply didn't know about the threat. Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ** * Internet: bennett at cs.niu.edu * ** * A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army. * *-- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ** *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
