Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
2009/12/27 Programmer In Training p...@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us On 12/27/2009 10:00 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: Leave the http, https, ftp, ssl, gopher, whatever fields blank. only configure the socks field as localhost:9050. If thunderbird 3 has proper socks support, it will only use the socks proxy on localhost, port 9050 for access to the internet. That setting causes my connection to time out and I cannot send/retrieve anything. What happens if you set the http fields to 127.0.0.1:8118, and the SOCKS field to 127.0.0.1:9050? What happens if you set the SOCKS field like this, but leave all other fields blank? Thunderbird may not know that `localhost' is shorthand for 127.0.0.1. Slightly off-topic, but broadly related: Isn't Thunderbird known to be a `leaky' client? Of course, with a new version, its behaviour may have changed; but I was under the impression that it occasionally included the system's true IP address, hostname, or other identifying details in outgoing messages, or in communication with a mailserver. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, are extensions' traffic piped through the main proxy settings, or are extension writers responsible for determining their own behaviour? I'd love to use Thunderbird with Tor, but not if its unsafe to do so. Given that Thunderbird and Firefox share extension architecture, is it possible to use TorButton with Thunderbird? My apologies if this messages is out of date by the time it is received. It is send using a slow store-and-forward system. The emphasis is on the `store'.
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 11:33 AM, Flamsmark wrote: 2009/12/27 Programmer In Training p...@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us mailto:p...@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us On 12/27/2009 10:00 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: Leave the http, https, ftp, ssl, gopher, whatever fields blank. only configure the socks field as localhost:9050. If thunderbird 3 has proper socks support, it will only use the socks proxy on localhost, port 9050 for access to the internet. That setting causes my connection to time out and I cannot send/retrieve anything. What happens if you set the http fields to 127.0.0.1:8118 http://127.0.0.1:8118, and the SOCKS field to 127.0.0.1:9050 I get all kinds of weird problems. The RSS poller acts up, connections time out or not randomly, etc. OTOH, I have little to no problems (except subscribing to or clicking on anything contained within RSS feed that is available on the web page in question) with multiple field settings in FF 3.6b4. Those problems aren't critical to my use of Tor with FF though. http://127.0.0.1:9050? What happens if you set the SOCKS field like this, but leave all other fields blank? Thunderbird may not know that `localhost' is shorthand for 127.0.0.1. I never use the shorthand. Slightly off-topic, but broadly related: Isn't Thunderbird known to be a `leaky' client? Of course, with a new version, its behaviour may have changed; but I was under the impression that it occasionally included the system's true IP address, hostname, or other identifying details in outgoing messages, or in communication with a mailserver. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, are extensions' Compare this message with some of my older ones to the list and compare. traffic piped through the main proxy settings, or are extension writers responsible for determining their own behaviour? I'd love to use Thunderbird with Tor, but not if its unsafe to do so. Given that Thunderbird and Firefox share extension architecture, is it possible to use TorButton with Thunderbird? I already tried that and TorButton isn't compatible with TB (at least not TB3). My apologies if this messages is out of date by the time it is received. It is send using a slow store-and-forward system. The emphasis is on the `store'. no problem. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 12:38 PM, Programmer In Training wrote: What happens if you set the http fields to 127.0.0.1:8118 http://127.0.0.1:8118, and the SOCKS field to 127.0.0.1:9050 I get all kinds of weird problems. The RSS poller acts up, connections time out or not randomly, etc. OTOH, I have little to no problems (except subscribing to or clicking on anything contained within RSS feed that is available on the web page in question) with multiple field settings in FF 3.6b4. Those problems aren't critical to my use of Tor with FF though. I'm going to create a vm and load up tb3 to see what issues arise. It may be that much like firefox, the tb socks support is lacking. Isn't Thunderbird known to be a `leaky' client? Of course, with a new version, its behaviour may have changed; but I was under the impression that it occasionally included the system's true IP address, hostname, or other identifying details in outgoing messages, or in communication with a mailserver. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, are extensions' Yes, mail clients in general leak all sorts of data about you. torbutton hasn't been kept up with thunderbird for a long time. If someone wants to write torbutton for thunderbird, or other clients, we're willing to share our knowledge gained with firefox. It may be easier to write a scrubbing smtp proxy that can cleanse your emails before being delivered to a mail server. -- Andrew Lewman The Tor Project pgp 0x31B0974B Website: https://torproject.org/ Blog: https://blog.torproject.org/ Identi.ca: torproject *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 12:18 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: On 12/28/2009 12:38 PM, Programmer In Training wrote: What happens if you set the http fields to 127.0.0.1:8118 http://127.0.0.1:8118, and the SOCKS field to 127.0.0.1:9050 I get all kinds of weird problems. The RSS poller acts up, connections time out or not randomly, etc. OTOH, I have little to no problems (except subscribing to or clicking on anything contained within RSS feed that is available on the web page in question) with multiple field settings in FF 3.6b4. Those problems aren't critical to my use of Tor with FF though. I'm going to create a vm and load up tb3 to see what issues arise. It may be that much like firefox, the tb socks support is lacking. I can recreate the issues I'm having and then screen-cap the setting I was using, if you think that would help. Isn't Thunderbird known to be a `leaky' client? Of course, with a new version, its behaviour may have changed; but I was under the impression that it occasionally included the system's true IP address, hostname, or other identifying details in outgoing messages, or in communication with a mailserver. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, are extensions' snip easier to write a scrubbing smtp proxy that can cleanse your emails before being delivered to a mail server. I'd use such a program in association with Vidalia, but I might have some issues since I use GPG to sign all outgoing mail. Which reminds me, I need to set up GPG to use Tor when looking up keys. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: TOR is for anonymization; so how to add encryption as well?
1) is no one able to decrypt the tor's encryption? As for the node-to-node encryption, you can assume the answer to be probably not. AES128 is seen to be reasonably secure at the present time, enough so to be used for classified communication channels by the US Government. Does this mean $they probably couldn't brute-force a given key with enough time and/or resources? .. No. 2) how can i trust the person who runs the tor's exit node? You can't. Hence the need to use encrypted end-services like SSH, HTTPS, IMAPS, etc. optional -3) [forgive me if it is too silly] why people run TOR nodes? is that only to support the community or other benifits as well? Yes, to support the community and to generally frustrate repressive governments (our own included, since doing so is still within the bounds of the law at the moment). Benefits? If you need a recent real-life example .. during the Iran election protests, people were creating S3/Vmware instances for TOR that allowed access to Twitter, etc. and created an ever-moving target for the authorities over there .. enough so that information continued to leak out to the rest of us. The same is true for China, WikiLeaks, etc. Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 01:18 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: I'm going to create a vm and load up tb3 to see what issues arise. It may be that much like firefox, the tb socks support is lacking. I set this up and tested it. The TB3 correctly used SOCKS localhost:9050 as socks 5 just fine. It leaked dns, but otherwise the requests went over Tor. The RSS poller has some weird timeout when a feed can't be read via Tor. However, TB3 just left the feed stale if it couldn't be updated when tor circuits took longer than 2-3 minutes to get the data. As for mail, I could get imaps, pop3s to work over tor just fine. There were no exit nodes allowing smtp or s-smtp through their exit policies when I was testing, so sending mail via tor didn't work (as expected). Again, dns leaked locally. -- Andrew Lewman The Tor Project pgp 0x31B0974B Website: https://torproject.org/ Blog: https://blog.torproject.org/ Identi.ca: torproject *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 2:35 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: On 12/28/2009 01:18 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: I'm going to create a vm and load up tb3 to see what issues arise. It may be that much like firefox, the tb socks support is lacking. I set this up and tested it. The TB3 correctly used SOCKS localhost:9050 as socks 5 just fine. It leaked dns, but otherwise the requests went over Tor. The RSS poller has some weird timeout when a feed can't be read via Tor. However, TB3 just left the feed stale if it couldn't be updated when tor circuits took longer than 2-3 minutes to get the data. That's pretty much what it does for me, leaves the feed stale (and useless). I guess I'll have to get a third-party poller and use it in the open. As for mail, I could get imaps, pop3s to work over tor just fine. There were no exit nodes allowing smtp or s-smtp through their exit policies when I was testing, so sending mail via tor didn't work (as expected). Again, dns leaked locally. Hrm. So tor automatically blocks smtp connections by default and there is local leakage of DNS by TB3. Guess it's time to find a new mail client. ): signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 03:48 PM, Programmer In Training wrote: The RSS poller has some weird timeout when a feed can't be read via Tor. However, TB3 just left the feed stale if it couldn't be updated when tor circuits took longer than 2-3 minutes to get the data. That's pretty much what it does for me, leaves the feed stale (and useless). I guess I'll have to get a third-party poller and use it in the open. It depends if you want it updated every refresh. Sometimes, tor doesn't build a circuit fast enough for TB3, so TB3 gives up and moves on. I imagine overtime, you'll get your updates just fine. Hrm. So tor automatically blocks smtp connections by default and there is local leakage of DNS by TB3. Guess it's time to find a new mail client. ): Actually, no. The default exit policy blocks smtp ports. Sometimes, you can find exit nodes that allow smtp. These are times are typically few and far between. I intend to dig through the tb3 source code a bit to see if there's an option for forcing dns resolution over the proxy. -- Andrew Lewman The Tor Project pgp 0x31B0974B Website: https://torproject.org/ Blog: https://blog.torproject.org/ Identi.ca: torproject *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 3:15 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: On 12/28/2009 03:48 PM, Programmer In Training wrote: snip That's pretty much what it does for me, leaves the feed stale (and useless). I guess I'll have to get a third-party poller and use it in the open. It depends if you want it updated every refresh. Sometimes, tor doesn't build a circuit fast enough for TB3, so TB3 gives up and moves on. I imagine overtime, you'll get your updates just fine. I do, as most of my feeds are from a news paper (the Jerusalem Post, if you're wondering, which seems to handle RSS weirdly anyway). Hrm. So tor automatically blocks smtp connections by default and there is local leakage of DNS by TB3. Guess it's time to find a new mail client. ): Actually, no. The default exit policy blocks smtp ports. Sometimes, you can find exit nodes that allow smtp. These are times are typically few and far between. I imagine it's because even s-smtp isn't as secure as it could be. I intend to dig through the tb3 source code a bit to see if there's an option for forcing dns resolution over the proxy. I believe it's the same as listed in the Wiki for FF BUT in FF it doesn't work (I cannot resolve the .onion example link for the Hidden Wiki with it set to true) so I imagine in any version of TB it doesn't work (reliably anyway). signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:15:01 -0500 Andrew Lewman and...@torproject.org wrote: On 12/28/2009 03:48 PM, Programmer In Training wrote: The RSS poller has some weird timeout when a feed can't be read via Tor. However, TB3 just left the feed stale if it couldn't be updated when tor circuits took longer than 2-3 minutes to get the data. That's pretty much what it does for me, leaves the feed stale (and useless). I guess I'll have to get a third-party poller and use it in the open. It depends if you want it updated every refresh. Sometimes, tor doesn't build a circuit fast enough for TB3, so TB3 gives up and moves on. I imagine overtime, you'll get your updates just fine. Does Thunderbird perchance have a way to set the timeout to a different value? Hrm. So tor automatically blocks smtp connections by default and there is local leakage of DNS by TB3. Guess it's time to find a new mail client. ): Actually, no. The default exit policy blocks smtp ports. Sometimes, you can find exit nodes that allow smtp. These are times are typically few and far between. I thought that, pursuant to a discussion here last year or the year before, the default exit policy was changed to allow the smtps port. Did that change not get made after all? I intend to dig through the tb3 source code a bit to see if there's an option for forcing dns resolution over the proxy. Does it have a way to choose SOCKS 4A instead of SOCKS 5? Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ** * Internet: bennett at cs.niu.edu * ** * A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army. * *-- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ** *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: Vidalia Bundle and RSS in Thunderbird 3.0
On 12/28/2009 9:12 PM, Scott Bennett wrote: snip Does Thunderbird perchance have a way to set the timeout to a different value? Yes, hidden in the equivelant of about:config (options - advanced - general tab - config editor - search for timeout). Timeouts seem big enough (nothing under 100 seconds and that's for mailnews.tcptimout). snip Does it have a way to choose SOCKS 4A instead of SOCKS 5? Yes, but I hear that is sub-optimal. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: TOR and ISP
On the contrary, in the United States, all ISPs are *required* by statute to record all URL requests that can be detected passing from their customers through their equipment. False. ISP's in the US don't have to record any information of any kind about their user or their data whatsoever. None, period. Nor are they required to give it to anyone except under legal process [subpoena, court order]. US ISP's routinely lobby against recording anything because the time, capital and recurring cost to them to do so is precisely that, pure cost, no profit. Any information they record is usually related to generating metrics so that they can make more money. However, lately, all that has been flipping on it's back, now many are recording as a feel good or pressure measure, 'Hey, I'm a spiffy patriotic company, I helped law enforcement bust a terrorist 9yo kid today. Yay :) Please count me in as a good guy and don't put me on your watch list ok.' Any data they do happen to have on hand is of course subject to process. norms... against the ISPs reminding users that ISPs have this ability. :-) True. There is also the CALEA system, the result of which is that pretty much every phone switch in the US is remotely tappable. Internet gear is the next obviously logical step for that joint, partly required, partly offered, effort. I doubt that they provide this information to private individuals, and doing so may well be prohibited by ECPA True. Including other acts... wiretap, fcra, blah and etc. Such acts in some cases require those that have data about you to disclose it back to you on request. Or to others at your explicit direction. But that's usually only in the finance and medical sectors. but they can be required to submit their logs of this information to statute enforcement agencies. Only if such 'requirement' means court order. They can give it to whoever they want, provided they don't care about the possible legal repurcussions of doing so. ie: ATT etc obviously have a 69 position with the gov't going back to the days of Western Union, so they don't care. The key here is that the ISPs not only cannot detect encrypted URLs, The ISP only knows that the user is using Tor. And as always, it is best to assume your adversary knows far more than you think... and to plan your strategies accordingly. *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
Re: doesn't take long for the dmca's notices to start rolling in..
try searching for privacy free speech no logs webhosting or something like that. there were two companies i found in the usa while researching a couple years back that offered it. they were a bit pricy due to the manpower needed to fulfill their obligation to shuffle various legal process around. if you are doing legal stuff, even if it's unpopular, they can be a good home. If I limit my exit ports to http(s) and ssh; would that pretty much stop the torrenting? Probably. But people can still publish to say rapidshare with that. And cause various mayhem. You're working through it with your provider to find a solution so that's always a good thing. Or does anyone know a good vps hosting company they can point me too? One that isn't racked in the FDC DC? however no company will defend their users from doing illegal things. unless they also get a kick out of taking promising cases up to the supremes as some sort of masochistic revolutionary fun. the companies above accepted anonymous payments. many around the world do that. *** To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to majord...@torproject.org with unsubscribe or-talkin the body. http://archives.seul.org/or/talk/
