Help Iranian dissidents
This website is one of the locations with useful info. The email ph.on.twit...@gmail.com is still active and the place to send tor bridge info. http://iran.whyweprotest.net/ -- "If we have Senators and Congressmen there that can't protect themselves against the evil temptations of lobbyists, we don't need to change our lobbies, we need to change our representatives." - Will Rogers
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
I saw coloured revolutions in Georgia, Ukraine and Kirgisia. After successfull revolution these countries got corrupt regimes. I hope, iran will not go this way. And I hope, tor will stay political neutral. Karsten N.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
Karsten N. wrote: > I saw coloured revolutions in Georgia, Ukraine and Kirgisia. After > successfull revolution these countries got corrupt regimes. I hope, > iran will not go this way. > > And I hope, tor will stay political neutral. > > Karsten N. > Political neutral... yes, I think that is important for a project such as this. Jon
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
Hey Karsten, On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Karsten N. wrote: > > And I hope, tor will stay political neutral. > IMHO, Tor is, much like any other software, a tool. A tool is used to accomplish a goal. In this case, the goal is freedom of information for the Irani people or phrased otherwise evasion of lawful interception in Iran. Now, one may think whatever one wants about the way a tool is used (a hammer can be used to make a shed, or it can be used to permanently ventilate brains), but the tool is still the tool. A tool cannot have a political view, and I am convinced Roger et al will do their best not to let their personal views on any matter bleed too much into the codebase of tor. Greets, Nils -- Simple guidelines to happiness: Work like you don't need the money, Love like your heart has never been broken and Dance like no one can see you.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 06:01:27PM +0200, Nils Vogels wrote: >On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Karsten N. ><[1]tor-ad...@privacyfoundation.de> wrote: > > And I hope, tor will stay political neutral. > >IMHO, Tor is, much like any other software, a tool. A tool is used to >accomplish a goal. In this case, the goal is freedom of information for >the Irani people or phrased otherwise evasion of lawful interception in >Iran. >Now, one may think whatever one wants about the way a tool is used (a >hammer can be used to make a shed, or it can be used to permanently >ventilate brains), but the tool is still the tool. A tool cannot have a >political view, and I am convinced Roger et al will do their best not to >let their personal views on any matter bleed too much into the codebase of >tor. >Greets, >Nils This is really not the place for a political argument. If it were, i would be pointing out that aquiescence to any existing regime *is* taking a political stance. However, as noted on the Who Uses Tor page, https://www.torproject.org/torusers.html.en Tor is useful to people from all ends of the spectrum including dissidents and governments. Therefore it is not necessary to debate motives or politics but rather to educate everyone about it and further its development.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
Jon schrieb: >> And I hope, tor will stay political neutral. >> > Political neutral... yes, I think that is important for a project such > as this. If we have problems to introduce our bridges, we should search for a general solution and do not give all bridges exclusive to a political campaign. Seems I am not up to date. My last information was, a GMail account is used for publish bridges. It does not working? Is there a solution in development? May I help in any way? Karsten N.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 01:02:09PM +0200, Karsten N. wrote: > If we have problems to introduce our bridges, we should search for a > general solution and do not give all bridges exclusive to a political > campaign. There are only a few hundred running bridges right now. I think it's fine to "use" them all this week, if people want to. We'll have more later, and it'll be good to learn some lessons here. > Seems I am not up to date. My last information was, a GMail account is > used for publish bridges. It does not working? Is there a solution in > development? May I help in any way? You can discover some bridge addresses either with a gmail account, or with a web browser: https://bridges.torproject.org/ https://www.torproject.org/bridges#FindingMore It seems that other people are collecting bridge addresses manually and giving them out when they find people who could use one. This might be a bad idea, in that it increases the risk that the attacker will get ahold of the bridge address, since now there are two ways to learn it. But it also might be a good idea, since now it's more likely to get used by somebody who needs it (not everybody knows about the above two URLs after all). I'm not sure what the right balance is. In any case, the Tor network itself hasn't been blocked in Iran, as far as I can tell. So in a sense this bridge stuff (the next step in the arms race) is all just practice. --Roger
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
Hi Roger and Karsten, The problem with Tor and Tor Bridges is so few people know about it. And to get a Tor bridge one must understand Gmail usage, etc. All when English is probably not the first language. I agree that collecting and sending Bridge address or Squid proxy address is not the ideal method but in my opinion it is better than nothing (assuming the Tor network get blocked). What are the options? Tor needs to be easier for people to find and use Bridge addresses. I have helped 6 people setup Tor and Tor Bridges in the last week so they can help the Iranians. And every person was brand new to Tor and each one complained about how hard it was to setup and run (they all use Windows XP). Two people tried and gave up. The hardest issues seems to be telling people about Bridges and how to find them. If one is using Tor and doesn't know about Bridges and all of the sudden Tor is blocked I don't think the person would find Bridges or understand their use without a lot of effort (most people have little understanding of most GUIs, let alone command line, etc). I would love to see Tor get more attention, even though you (Roger) would not. I assume you are correct but it just seems so many people who could use and greatly benefit from Tor are not because they don't know about it I for one would like to email the Internet anchor Josh Levs from CNN. I would like to tell him about Tor and help him understand it. Then he can report on how people in Iran can use Tor and how people outside Iran can email Tor to people within Iran in case the Tor website goes down. Would be mind if I did so? I would not discuss Bridges. I sees both sides of the issue but to me it's most important to let people know about Tor and Tor Bridges. I assume it's only a short time until Iran blocks anonymity networks. I am very surprised they have not done so yet... You and Karsten know much more than I do so I defer to you. But I do think it's very important to let people know how they can use Tor to help in this crisis. --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Roger Dingledine wrote: From: Roger Dingledine Subject: Re: Help Iranian dissidents To: or-talk@freehaven.net Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 11:38 AM On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 01:02:09PM +0200, Karsten N. wrote: > If we have problems to introduce our bridges, we should search for a > general solution and do not give all bridges exclusive to a political > campaign. There are only a few hundred running bridges right now. I think it's fine to "use" them all this week, if people want to. We'll have more later, and it'll be good to learn some lessons here. > Seems I am not up to date. My last information was, a GMail account is > used for publish bridges. It does not working? Is there a solution in > development? May I help in any way? You can discover some bridge addresses either with a gmail account, or with a web browser: https://bridges.torproject.org/ https://www.torproject.org/bridges#FindingMore It seems that other people are collecting bridge addresses manually and giving them out when they find people who could use one. This might be a bad idea, in that it increases the risk that the attacker will get ahold of the bridge address, since now there are two ways to learn it. But it also might be a good idea, since now it's more likely to get used by somebody who needs it (not everybody knows about the above two URLs after all). I'm not sure what the right balance is. In any case, the Tor network itself hasn't been blocked in Iran, as far as I can tell. So in a sense this bridge stuff (the next step in the arms race) is all just practice. --Roger
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
Hi Roger and Karsten, The problem with Tor and Tor Bridges is so few people know about it. And to get a Tor bridge one must understand Gmail usage, etc. All when English is probably not the first language. I agree that collecting and sending Bridge address or Squid proxy address is not the ideal method but in my opinion it is better than nothing (assuming the Tor network get blocked). What are the options? Tor needs to be easier for people to find and use Bridge addresses. I have helped 6 people setup Tor and Tor Bridges in the last week so they can help the Iranians. And every person was brand new to Tor and each one complained about how hard it was to setup and run (they all use Windows XP). Two people tried and gave up. The hardest issues seems to be telling people about Bridges and how to find them. If one is using Tor and doesn't know about Bridges and all of the sudden Tor is blocked I don't think the person would find Bridges or understand their use without a lot of effort (most people have little understanding of most GUIs, let alone command line, etc). I would love to see Tor get more attention, even though you (Roger) would not. I assume you are correct but it just seems so many people who could use and greatly benefit from Tor are not because they don't know about it I for one would like to email the Internet anchor Josh Levs from CNN. I would like to tell him about Tor and help him understand it. Then he can report on how people in Iran can use Tor and how people outside Iran can email Tor to people within Iran in case the Tor website goes down. Would be mind if I did so? I would not discuss Bridges. I sees both sides of the issue but to me it's most important to let people know about Tor and Tor Bridges. I assume it's only a short time until Iran blocks anonymity networks. I am very surprised they have not done so yet... You and Karsten know much more than I do so I defer to you. But I do think it's very important to let people know how they can use Tor to help in this crisis. --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Roger Dingledine wrote: From: Roger Dingledine Subject: Re: Help Iranian dissidents To: or-talk@freehaven.net Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 11:38 AM On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 01:02:09PM +0200, Karsten N. wrote: > If we have problems to introduce our bridges, we should search for a > general solution and do not give all bridges exclusive to a political > campaign. There are only a few hundred running bridges right now. I think it's fine to "use" them all this week, if people want to. We'll have more later, and it'll be good to learn some lessons here. > Seems I am not up to date. My last information was, a GMail account is > used for publish bridges. It does not working? Is there a solution in > development? May I help in any way? You can discover some bridge addresses either with a gmail account, or with a web browser: https://bridges.torproject.org/ https://www.torproject.org/bridges#FindingMore It seems that other people are collecting bridge addresses manually and giving them out when they find people who could use one. This might be a bad idea, in that it increases the risk that the attacker will get ahold of the bridge address, since now there are two ways to learn it. But it also might be a good idea, since now it's more likely to get used by somebody who needs it (not everybody knows about the above two URLs after all). I'm not sure what the right balance is. In any case, the Tor network itself hasn't been blocked in Iran, as far as I can tell. So in a sense this bridge stuff (the next step in the arms race) is all just practice. --Roger
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Sunday 21 June 2009, Chris Humphry wrote: > You and Karsten know much more than I do so I defer to you. But I do think > it's very important to let people know how they can use Tor to help in this > crisis. Hello if this is a crisis and who is the good guy and the bad guy should in my opinion not be discussed on this list. Not everyone might share your view of "dissidents". Some might call those guys different. It is very good you are helping people to get to use tor. I am also promoting it whenever I can. I hope what Karsten N. has writen yesterday is not yet forgotten: "And I hope, tor will stay political neutral." I would like to extend tor to also or-talk and everything else related to tor. i will keep my server running even I know some guys I dont like are using it. Regards Robert
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
linux wrote: On Sunday 21 June 2009, Chris Humphry wrote: [snip] i will keep my server running even I know some guys I dont like are using it. Regards Robert I don't know who is using mine. :) Jon
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
Hello Robert and Karsten N., Both you of have expressed concerns about politicizing Tor and I agree to an extent. If we don't tell those who need Tor about Tor why make Tor in the first place? >if this is a crisis and who is the good guy and the bad guy should in >my opinion not be discussed on this list. Not everyone might share >your view of "dissidents". Some might call those guys different. I am not helping the Iranians because I like them or that I like Democracy. I am helping them because the need help accessing the Internet, simple as that. I don't know enough about the issues in Iran to make a decision on anything, I am only trying to spread anonymity and help those who want it. Likewise I would help any group or person who seeks anonymity and is not violent, or trying to repress other people, period. My only 'issue' is human rights and to me politics plays no roll in that. Human rights are not the concern of any one group or Nation, it should be the concern of every Homo sapien. Hell, I'd help a alien if they asked for it and did expose a wish to kill other aliens... It think those who use Tor and the Tor Project media team should try to help all those who need and ask for help *and* do not expose a wish to kill or oppress. IMO the "whys'" of killing and oppression are not important, what is important is they should not happen, period. >i will keep my server running even I know some guys I don't like are using it. To me that is a different issue than running a Bridge. If I am running a entry/rely/exit node then sure, I feel the same. I don't want kiddy porn to be transferred over my node but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bath water. However, when I am running a Bridge node I feel it's my right as the operator to choose who I give it to. I won't give it to those who expose the wish to view kiddy porn but I will give it to those who expose the wish for freedom of speach... Thanks
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
--- On Sun, 6/21/09, Chris Humphry wrote: > My only 'issue' is human rights and to me politics > plays no roll in that. Well, unfortunately that just isn't the case. Many people have different (political) opinions on just what exactly human rights means. It is not so simple as you would think (I wish it were). For example, this declaration (which is used by the UN) is full of political (and even contradictory) ideas, and "rights". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights Again, I am not trying to start a debate about what human rights should be (this is the wrong place for that), but just to point out that unfortunately it is pretty hard to make the "non-political" claim you probably wish were true. To be more illustrative of my "political point", the following "rights" would be considered by most to be socialist ideas: * Article 22 * Article 23 - 1 * Article 25 - 1,2 * Article 26 - 1 * Article 29 - 1 The following are pro democracy: * Article 21 - 3 Articles which are pro-property rights (and sound very contradictory to the socialist articles above): * Article 17 - 2 Pro intellectual property "rights": * Article 27 - 2 And this is just to me the obvious political ones, but someone biased differently than me could probably point out very different "political" articles than the ones I did. > Human rights are not the concern of any one group > or Nation, it should be the concern of every Homo > sapien. Agreed, and I wish we could all agree, but I certainly don't agree with several of the articles mentioned above (and I am often disgusted when asked to support some of them when starting a new job). :( Cheers, -Martin
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Sunday 21 June 2009 03:08:40 pm Martin Fick wrote: > --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Chris Humphry wrote: > > My only 'issue' is human rights and to me politics > > plays no roll in that. > > Well, unfortunately that just isn't the case. Many > people have different (political) opinions on just > what exactly human rights means. It is not so simple > as you would think (I wish it were). For example, this > declaration (which is used by the UN) is full of > political (and even contradictory) ideas, and "rights". > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights > > Again, I am not trying to start a debate about what > human rights should be (this is the wrong place for > that), but just to point out that unfortunately it > is pretty hard to make the "non-political" claim > you probably wish were true. Indeed. "Human rights" mean different things to different people. But it is perhaps worth pointing out that the very EXISTENCE of TOR as a public project is a political act. There is no way to keep politics out of the TOR project, since the very idea that anyone who can connect to the web should be able to communicate anonymously is a highly contentious idea. (And if you don't believe that this should be the case, what rationale do you have to support TOR in its present form?) There is a great deal of sense in not publicly aligning TOR with any one political group or movement. Moreover, what movement could TOR be aligned with? There are both proponents and opponents of anonymity of every political stripe. It is, after all, a decidedly mixed bag... But let's not kid ourselves that TOR can ever be "politically neutral," even if it cannot be comfortably shoe-horned into any political movement. Oh, and hello to OR-Talk from a former lurker. :-) - Pyotr -- Long live the fighters! ╭───╮ │╲ ◯───╥ ╱│ pub 4096R/91BEFF99 :: Pyotr │╱‵───′╲│ pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x91BEFF99 ╰───╯ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
12 (?) or 15 months ago i ve asked the list to help people from iran with tor. I got no help. There were other questions "help me, i can´ t login to google via tor" or "help me i can create a account with digg via tor". The questioners got their desired help. Thats dingy! Anyway, if the provider shuts down, the internet is down. Nobody needs help with tor if the internet is down. Right? That was or is the problem with some providers today in Iran. Regards.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:31:51AM -0700, Dieter Zinke wrote: > Anyway, if the provider shuts down, the internet is down. Nobody needs help > with tor if the internet is down. Right? That was or is the problem with some > providers today in Iran. What's the situation with guerilla WLAN (long-distance and mesh), packet radio, satellite phones, illegal fiber laid across country borders? Speaking about guerilla, http://www.google.com/search?q=sheevaplug would seem like an ideal throwaway Tor appliance. With Bluetooth or WLAN dongles even casting a small (or long-distance, with suitable directional aerials) wireless cloud. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On 06/24/2009 11:44 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > Speaking about guerilla, http://www.google.com/search?q=sheevaplug > would seem like an ideal throwaway Tor appliance. With Bluetooth > or WLAN dongles even casting a small (or long-distance, with > suitable directional aerials) wireless cloud. The Fonera 2 might be a candidate platform. Half the price, 32MB RAM, built-in wifi, support for 3g modems. IIRC, somebody already did a tor mod for the first version. A camouflaged case could be produced that would incorporate localized power connectors. Maybe even pass-through. -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Cell: 603.252.2606 Twitter, etc.: bill_mcgonigle Page: 603.442.1833 Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On 06/24/2009 01:41 PM, Bill McGonigle wrote: > On 06/24/2009 11:44 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: >> Speaking about guerilla, http://www.google.com/search?q=sheevaplug >> would seem like an ideal throwaway Tor appliance. With Bluetooth >> or WLAN dongles even casting a small (or long-distance, with >> suitable directional aerials) wireless cloud. > > The Fonera 2 might be a candidate platform. Half the price, 32MB RAM, > built-in wifi, support for 3g modems. IIRC, somebody already did a tor > mod for the first version. In general, we encourage people to work on these types of ports of Tor. We will work with you and help you turn this into a reality. However, be aware that it takes work, research, and effort to get tor to work correctly on these platforms. I'm sure there are a list of features "micro-environments" would need to have in Tor to make everything work better. We'd love to have the help and your experience in turning this into a reality. We have the beginnings of a certification program in place, so an end-user/customer can tell if this is really tor, works with the current tor network, is a solid design as good as Tor, or is complete bunk and merely includes the Tor tarball to say "uses Tor!" for their marketing purposes. However, coming up with the idea, and then punting all of the next steps to the Tor Project doesn't work too well. I have a list of platforms that people have stated, "If you can turn Tor into an appliance on device X, we'll sell it for you and donate x% back to you quarterly." These platforms include: fonera2, embedded linux variants, polar cloud's tomato, sheevaplugs, bug lab's modules, openwrt, ddwrt, windows ce, windows xp embedded, and the list goes on. In conversations with the requesters, they want: Step 1) Generate an idea. Step 2) Wait for Tor Project to do the technical work. Step 3) Profit! If only it were that easy. -- Andrew Lewman The Tor Project pgp 0x31B0974B Website: https://torproject.org/ Blog: https://blog.torproject.org/ Identica/Twitter: torproject
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
I can't speak to the others, but for this one: On 06/24/2009 03:32 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: > Step 2) Wait for Tor Project to do the technical work. There could be at least four reasons: 1) they don't believe it. They're just throwing ideas at the wall, to see who will do free work for them. They wouldn't spend a dime of their own money to do it. 2) lack of capital They think it's a good idea, but don't have the funds to allocate/acquire the manpower to get it done. If only they were better at raising money they'd get it done. Summer of Code, perhaps other outlets for these folks? 3) ideological inefficiency They think it's a tor feature, Tor Project alone should do it, even if they have the capital and believe the business case. I trust in individual self-interest too much to believe this is real. 4) Confusion They'd do it themselves but it's not obvious what they need to do. Being opaque, they work on other things first. I suspect this is possible, so I started a wiki page that could, in a future form, be useful to this class: https://wiki.torproject.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter/EmbeddedTips It would be great if those with experience could add info/links here, especially architectural elements with broad commonality among potential targets. -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Cell: 603.252.2606 Twitter, etc.: bill_mcgonigle Page: 603.442.1833 Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On 06/24/2009 07:02 PM, Bill McGonigle wrote: > On 06/24/2009 03:32 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote: >> Step 2) Wait for Tor Project to do the technical work. > > There could be at least four reasons: > > 1) they don't believe it. > They're just throwing ideas at the wall, to see who will do free work > for them. They wouldn't spend a dime of their own money to do it. Right. Most of these people are successful businessmen, some are even investors. They know how the hardware business works, just hoping to get us to do their engineering for free. This is a fine business model if you can get it to work. ;) > 4) Confusion > They'd do it themselves but it's not obvious what they need to do. > Being opaque, they work on other things first. > I suspect this is possible, so I started a wiki page that could, in a > future form, be useful to this class: > https://wiki.torproject.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter/EmbeddedTips This is great. Thank you. -- Andrew Lewman The Tor Project pgp 0x31B0974B Website: https://torproject.org/ Blog: https://blog.torproject.org/ Identica/Twitter: torproject
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 07:02:32PM -0400, Bill McGonigle wrote: > > Step 2) Wait for Tor Project to do the technical work. > > There could be at least four reasons: > > 1) they don't believe it. > They're just throwing ideas at the wall, to see who will do free work > for them. They wouldn't spend a dime of their own money to do it. I don't know who "they" are, but the only way to cook up a bunch of throwaway Tor nodes and distribute them for creative installation is someone who has the spare cash to buy a few hundred to thousand pieces of hardware, and give them away. In the case of Sheeva, that's some 10 kUSD for a 1000 units (probably less due to mass rebate). I don't have such money, but since it was my idea, and Ubuntu already supports the Sheeva I'm willing to plug an USB drive and set up a self hosting environment to build a Tor package or a system image based on Ubuntu if someone sends me a Sheevaplug. However, it would be probably trivial to do that for a seasoned Tor developer, and it's also an issue of trust. Would you accept system images from random strangers? > 2) lack of capital > They think it's a good idea, but don't have the funds to > allocate/acquire the manpower to get it done. If only they were better > at raising money they'd get it done. > Summer of Code, perhaps other outlets for these folks? > > 3) ideological inefficiency > They think it's a tor feature, Tor Project alone should do it, even if > they have the capital and believe the business case. I trust in > individual self-interest too much to believe this is real. > > 4) Confusion > They'd do it themselves but it's not obvious what they need to do. > Being opaque, they work on other things first. > I suspect this is possible, so I started a wiki page that could, in a > future form, be useful to this class: > https://wiki.torproject.org/noreply/TheOnionRouter/EmbeddedTips That is an excellent idea. > It would be great if those with experience could add info/links here, > especially architectural elements with broad commonality among potential > targets. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: Help Iranian dissidents
On Wed, June 24, 2009 19:41, Bill McGonigle wrote: > IIRC, somebody already did a tor mod for the first version. Long time ago, I torified its traffic for fun: http://sid77.livejournal.com/2007/07/16/ the problem with running a tor node directly on top of it is the limited number of resources, at least on those old versions of the router. (maybe I should try with a minimal openwrt... hmm...) -- Marco Bonetti BT3 EeePC enhancing module: http://sid77.slackware.it/bt3/ Slackintosh Linux Project Developer: http://workaround.ch/ Linux-live for powerpc: http://workaround.ch/pub/rsync/mb/linux-live/ My GnuPG key id: 0x86A91047
Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
Hi, I have been mounting a little movement to get people to run Tor and setup Tor Bridges to help those in Iran access the Internet. Then I found a great message which has been going around asking people to run Tor Bridges. So I thought: "what about or-talk?". Would it be wise to ask people in or-talk to provide Bridge addresses to this topic? When people have submitted say 5 or 10 (or more) Bridge addresses I could collect them and post them to Twitter and lots of other sites. Is that wise? Here is the messages I found: -- Help the Iranian dissidents! Run a Tor Bridge and post your Bridge IP! It allows them access to the Internet...without proxies they have no voice! Tor Bridge: https://www.torproject.org/bridges What is Tor?: https://www.torproject.org/overview.html.en Get Tor: https://www.torproject.org/easy-download.html.en Anonymously post Bridge IP (use Tor for your anonymity): http://iran.whyweprotest.net/ Do not follw the Tor Bridge setup directions from the "iran.whyweprotest" website. Follow the setup directions from the Tor website, we now use Vidalia (Tor GUI): Tor Bridge: https://www.torproject.org/bridges Please help...without proxies (ie. Bridges) the Iranian dissidents have no voice! Posting your Tor Bridge: One of the best ways is to post your Tor Bridge IP address on Twitter with the tag #iranelection and #helpiranelection Below is a Google search string. Use it to find places to post your Tor Bridge IP address. Iran Government is blocking more and more sites all the time...keep moving and they can't stop it! Goolge search string: post + proxy + address + iran --
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 18:26 -0700, Chris Humphry wrote: > Hi, > > I have been mounting a little movement to get people to run Tor and > setup Tor Bridges to help those in Iran access the Internet. > > Then I found a great message which has been going around asking people > to run Tor Bridges. So I thought: "what about or-talk?". Would it be > wise to ask people in or-talk to provide Bridge addresses to this > topic? When people have submitted say 5 or 10 (or more) Bridge > addresses I could collect them and post them to Twitter and lots of > other sites. Is that wise? > No. I'm sure the Iranian government is monitoring it at this point. Posting a bridge IP there will just let them block it. It would probably be best to email it to a trusted Iranian organization or group, using OpenPGP encryption. They can disseminate it from there. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 06:26:43PM -0700, Chris Humphry wrote: > Please help...without proxies (ie. Bridges) the Iranian dissidents have no > voice! Yeah, see, I'm not sure whether this is true. If ordinary bridges are working, then probably ordinary Tor relays are working too. Or said another way, if ordinary Tor relays aren't working, probably ordinary bridges won't work either. We've heard rumors they're blocking all encrypted traffic. Does this mean everything that does an SSL handshake no matter the port? Or does it mean the blocked port 443? If the former, an automated system like Tor is going to have a tough time keeping up -- at least without the tweaks we've been pondering over the past few days. ;) If the latter, then setting up a bunch of bridges on port 80 (even though everything's still encrypted) might be the ticket. Lots of misinformation going around, and not so much information. --Roger
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 22:11 -0400, Roger Dingledine wrote: > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 06:26:43PM -0700, Chris Humphry wrote: > > Please help...without proxies (ie. Bridges) the Iranian dissidents have no > > voice! > > Yeah, see, I'm not sure whether this is true. If ordinary bridges are > working, then probably ordinary Tor relays are working too. Or said > another way, if ordinary Tor relays aren't working, probably ordinary > bridges won't work either. > > We've heard rumors they're blocking all encrypted traffic. Does this > mean everything that does an SSL handshake no matter the port? Or does > it mean the blocked port 443? > > If the former, an automated system like Tor is going to have a tough time > keeping up -- at least without the tweaks we've been pondering over the > past few days. ;) > > If the latter, then setting up a bunch of bridges on port 80 (even > though everything's still encrypted) might be the ticket. > > Lots of misinformation going around, and not so much information. If things get really bad, people can just resort to setting up DNS or even ICMP tunnels. Internet censorship is probably the largest-scale game of whack-a-mole ever played. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
Ted Smith schrub in 1245290677.7339.8.ca...@stormbringer: >It would probably be best to email it to a trusted Iranian organization >or group, using OpenPGP encryption. They can disseminate it from there. which would be…? all the best, /marcel __ 0xCF0D7FD1: 2186 45B0 5618 24AF 4CEC 4DBC 30E1 44F5 CF0D 7FD1 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:06 +0200, marcel wrote: > Ted Smith schrub in 1245290677.7339.8.ca...@stormbringer: > >It would probably be best to email it to a trusted Iranian organization > >or group, using OpenPGP encryption. They can disseminate it from there. > > which would be…? > I wouldn't know. I'm sure with enough hunting you can find one. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
Hi Roger, On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 22:11 -0400, Roger Dingledine wrote: >>On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 06:26:43PM -0700, Chris Humphry wrote: >>Please help...without proxies (ie. Bridges) the Iranian dissidents >>have no voice! >Yeah, see, I'm not sure whether this is true. If ordinary bridges are >working, then probably ordinary Tor relays are working too. Or said >another way, if ordinary Tor relays aren't working, probably ordinary >bridges won't work either. I have no idea if Tor relays are working from Iran or not. On CNN they have been reporting that a vast amount of proxies are provided each day to the dissidents. Supposedly that is how they are sending the pics and video we see each day. To me it sounds like plain ol' one hop open proxies, not Tor. I have emailed CNN asking how one can provide proxies and to which organization, they have yet to email me back. >We've heard rumors they're blocking all encrypted traffic. Does this >mean everything that does an SSL handshake no matter the port? Or does >it mean the blocked port 443? >If the former, an automated system like Tor is going to have a tough time >keeping up -- at least without the tweaks we've been pondering over the >past few days. ;) Even if it is the former I like the tone of your sentence! I am looking forward to seeing what your guys/gals come up with :) >If the latter, then setting up a bunch of bridges on port 80 (even >though everything's still encrypted) might be the ticket. I will email CNN and ask them, but they are getting SO much email I have doubts they will get back to me. Does Tor Project not have contacts in Iran? I wonder how/if we can find out specifically how the Iran Government is blocking Internet access? If a representative from the EFF or Tor contacted CNN I bet they would respond... >Lots of misinformation going around, and not so much information. Yea I was wondering about that. Who to trust?... Thanks!
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
Chris Humphry wrote: > Hi Roger, > > If a representative from the EFF or Tor contacted CNN I bet they would > respond... > > >Lots of misinformation going around, and not so much information. > This news was on slashdot not long ago: http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/06/16/2137203/Statistical-Suspicions-In-Irans-Election Notice that a link was presented to instructions on how to set up squid based proxy servers. That may be the reason why the proxy technique got in the media but I do not know why tor was not mentioned at all. > Yea I was wondering about that. Who to trust?... > > Thanks! > Thunderbird never asked me a second time for my smtp password until I wanted to send this message, I thing I will go suspicious.
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
Hi, > We've heard rumors they're blocking all encrypted traffic. Does this > mean everything that does an SSL handshake no matter the port? Or does > it mean the blocked port 443? > > If the former, an automated system like Tor is going to have a tough time > keeping up -- at least without the tweaks we've been pondering over the > past few days. ;) Are you planning to implement protocol wrapping? bye, Matej
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
From twitter, there is a user ("austinheap") out of San Fran who organized
this. It is simply having people setup squid proxies and sending the
pertinent info to him by email or twitter direct message: ip address and port
(change from the default port and other "standard" ports...I set mine up for
port 8808). He then compiles the list of ips and port info and passes it
along to his trusted iranian contacts who then disburse the info to their
trusted friends.
Try http://blog.austinheap.com/ click through the first blurb screen image in
green to get to the actual site. He has an entry about 1/3 down the page
titled "Best proxy practices" for this situation, providing guidance to help
and get around the Iranian govt censors.
He is providing guidance on squid proxy. As for tor, you can setup a bridge
relay in addition to this direct proxy.
praedor
On Thursday 18 June 2009 13:51:45 Chris Humphry wrote:
> Hi Roger,
>
> On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 22:11 -0400, Roger Dingledine wrote:
> >>On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 06:26:43PM -0700, Chris Humphry wrote:
> >>Please help...without proxies (ie. Bridges) the Iranian dissidents
> >>have no voice!
> >
> >Yeah, see, I'm not sure whether this is true. If ordinary bridges are
> >working, then probably ordinary Tor relays are working too. Or said
> >another way, if ordinary Tor relays aren't working, probably ordinary
> >bridges won't work either.
>
> I have no idea if Tor relays are working from Iran or not. On CNN they
> have been reporting that a vast amount of proxies are provided each day
> to the dissidents. Supposedly that is how they are sending the pics and
> video we see each day. To me it sounds like plain ol' one hop open
> proxies, not Tor. I have emailed CNN asking how one can provide proxies
> and to which organization, they have yet to email me back.
>
> >We've heard rumors they're blocking all encrypted traffic. Does this
> >mean everything that does an SSL handshake no matter the port? Or does
> >it mean the blocked port 443?
> >
> >If the former, an automated system like Tor is going to have a tough time
> >keeping up -- at least without the tweaks we've been pondering over the
> >past few days. ;)
>
> Even if it is the former I like the tone of your sentence! I am looking
> forward to seeing what your guys/gals come up with :)
>
> >If the latter, then setting up a bunch of bridges on port 80 (even
> >though everything's still encrypted) might be the ticket.
>
> I will email CNN and ask them, but they are getting SO much email I
> have doubts they will get back to me. Does Tor Project not have contacts
> in Iran? I wonder how/if we can find out specifically how the Iran
> Government is blocking Internet access?
>
> If a representative from the EFF or Tor contacted CNN I bet they would
> respond...
>
> >Lots of misinformation going around, and not so much information.
>
> Yea I was wondering about that. Who to trust?...
>
> Thanks!
--
There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be
to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
- John Adams [1772]
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:30:28PM +0300, Teodor Robas wrote: > Notice that a link was presented to instructions on how to set up > squid based proxy servers. > That may be the reason why the proxy technique got in the media but I > do not know why tor was not mentioned at all. Tor has been mentioned in a variety of articles. We actually try to avoid getting big mentions in the press -- every time I talk to journalists they have visions of headlines like "Tor Project declares war on China!" or "Lone American hacker conquers communist nation", but the reality is that those sort of articles will hurt much more than they help. Getting the news to the right people is very important, and I'm happy that Tor instructions are spreading by word-of-mouth, blogs, etc. But huge high-profile stories in Western media will end up forcing the authorities in these countries to act when otherwise they might not need to. You can bet that plenty of policy people in other countries are watching right now to learn what technologies they should instruct their firewall operators to prepare better for. It's a delicate balancing act. --Roger
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
>From twitter, there is a user ("austinheap") out of San Fran who organized
>this. It is simply having people setup squid proxies and sending the
>pertinent info to him by email or twitter direct message: ip address and port
>(change from the default port and other "standard" ports...I set mine up for
>port 8808). He then compiles the list of ips and port info and passes it
>along to his trusted iranian contacts who then disburse the info to their
>trusted friends.
Excellent info, thanks.
>Try http://blog.austinheap.com/ click through the first blurb screen image in
>green to get to the actual site. He has an entry about 1/3 down the page
>titled "Best proxy practices" for this situation, providing guidance to help
>and get around the Iranian govt censors.
Great. I will inform others who want to help but do not know how.
>He is providing guidance on squid proxy. As for tor, you can setup a bridge
>relay in addition to this direct proxy.
Do you know if he reads this list? Have you contacted him about Tor? The
Revolutionary Guard has stated they will crack down on anyone disseminating
images
out of Iran. I fear they could be running honey pots in the form of simple
squid
proxies and such. So austinheap just trusts each provider of squid proxies at
face
value? That seems very dangerous...
Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On Friday 19 June 2009 13:49:48 Chris Humphry wrote:
> From twitter, there is a user ("austinheap") out of San Fran who organized
>
> >this. It is simply having people setup squid proxies and sending the
> >pertinent info to him by email or twitter direct message: ip address and
> > port (change from the default port and other "standard" ports...I set
> > mine up for port 8808). He then compiles the list of ips and port info
> > and passes it along to his trusted iranian contacts who then disburse the
> > info to their trusted friends.
>
> Excellent info, thanks.
>
> >Try http://blog.austinheap.com/ click through the first blurb screen
> > image in green to get to the actual site. He has an entry about 1/3 down
> > the page titled "Best proxy practices" for this situation, providing
> > guidance to help and get around the Iranian govt censors.
>
> Great. I will inform others who want to help but do not know how.
>
> >He is providing guidance on squid proxy. As for tor, you can setup a
> > bridge relay in addition to this direct proxy.
>
> Do you know if he reads this list? Have you contacted him about Tor? The
> Revolutionary Guard has stated they will crack down on anyone disseminating
> images out of Iran. I fear they could be running honey pots in the form of
> simple squid proxies and such. So austinheap just trusts each provider of
> squid proxies at face value? That seems very dangerous...
There is a parallel tor bridge effort going on. You setup your tor bridge and
send you information to ph.on.twit...@gmail.com. Austinheap (among one or two
others) collects the squid proxy info and passes it on and the people behind
explaining how the iranians can quickly setup and use tor are collecting
bridge info. Their original website (http://tor.ir.org/) appears to be toast
but the tor main website is linked to from one of the protest aid sites and
I've seen many links to tor in twitter. I am trying to verify that the
ph.on.twitter email is still active and good.
Also: http://blog.austinheap.com/ has some info. He provides the squid info
but also recently posted that Freegate appears to be working (hadn't heard of
freegate until now) in Iran. Apparently, it is popular with chinese in
evading their firewall censors.
praedor
--
"If we have Senators and Congressmen there that can't protect themselves
against the evil temptations of lobbyists, we don't need to change our
lobbies, we need to change our representatives." - Will Rogers
(Solution. Please read) Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
To everyone: Thanks so much for the interest! I was just watching CNN and they have been reporting from Channel One ( http://channelonetv.com/ ) in LA. It's the largest and most viewed 'outside' Farsi news channel in Iran. They are still broadcasting and the owner is an exile from Iran; he is trying to promote Democracy in Iran. People of Iran can still watch Channel One through Afghan TV; or if the Iranians kept their satellite dishes (the Revolutionary Guard has been taking them) they can watch Channel One because the news station changed it's broadcast frequency. Channel One has sent 10,000 video cameras in the form of a pen, a "camera pen". It has audio and records for 20 minutes. But the neat part is you open it up and you find it's really a USB/camera pen. I assume it must run on Windows. Channel One is planning on sending *thousands* more of these pen cameras to Iran this week. I then thought of contacting Channel One and telling them about Tor, TorBrowserBundle and Tor Bridges. Why not have them put TBB on *each* pen they send out? And with each TBB they could include the signature and a .txt file with a few Tor Bridges listed. Ideally each pen could have a different list of Tor Bridges. Alought as amir (hushang) aziziIs wrote, Tor is working from Iran at this time. Is Vidalia trasnled into Farsi? I will contect Channel One in three hours. I hope I can get some respones and direction (if I am misguieded) before then. If the Tor Project or the EFF wanted to be the entity who contacts Channel One be my guest. All the best and Demoracy for all! --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Chris Humphry wrote: From: Chris Humphry Subject: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?) To: or-talk@freehaven.net Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 1:26 AM Hi, I have been mounting a little movement to get people to run Tor and setup Tor Bridges to help those in Iran access the Internet. Then I found a great message which has been going around asking people to run Tor Bridges. So I thought: "what about or-talk?". Would it be wise to ask people in or-talk to provide Bridge addresses to this topic? When people have submitted say 5 or 10 (or more) Bridge addresses I could collect them and post them to Twitter and lots of other sites. Is that wise? Here is the messages I found: -- Help the Iranian dissidents! Run a Tor Bridge and post your Bridge IP! It allows them access to the Internet...without proxies they have no voice! Tor Bridge: https://www..torproject.org/bridges What is Tor?: https://www.torproject.org/overview.html.en Get Tor: https://www.torproject.org/easy-download.html.en Anonymously post Bridge IP (use Tor for your anonymity): http://iran.whyweprotest.net/ Do not follw the Tor Bridge setup directions from the "iran.whyweprotest" website. Follow the setup directions from the Tor website, we now use Vidalia (Tor GUI): Tor Bridge: https://www.torproject.org/bridges Please help...without proxies (ie. Bridges) the Iranian dissidents have no voice! Posting your Tor Bridge: One of the best ways is to post your Tor Bridge IP address on Twitter with the tag #iranelection and #helpiranelection Below is a Google search string. Use it to find places to post your Tor Bridge IP address. Iran Government is blocking more and more sites all the time...keep moving and they can't stop it! Goolge search string: post + proxy + address + iran --
Re: (Solution. Please read) Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
On 06/19/2009 01:37 PM, Chris Humphry wrote: > I then thought of contacting Channel One and telling them about Tor, > TorBrowserBundle and Tor Bridges. Why not have them put TBB on > *each* pen they send out? And with each TBB they could include the > signature and a .txt file with a few Tor Bridges listed. Other organizations have put TBB on a USB drive for their needs. If you extract it and have it ready to go it works best. They should include the source .exe and signature (and sha-1 hash fwiw). So more sophisticated users can verify it really is our TBB, not a trojaned TBB. They should not include a text file of bridge addresses. Especially if you want each pen to have a different list. That's a fine way to enumerate all bridges for someone to block them faster. If Tor works in country already, there's no need to force bridges. Users can find bridges through the Vidalia Help just fine. > Is Vidalia trasnled into Farsi? Yes. Vidalia, Torbutton, and TBB itself are translated into Farsi, see https://torproject.org/torbutton Getting TBB into the hands of those who need it is a great idea; publicizing this fact may only harm those same people. Once it is known the USB pen is more than just a camera, it becomes a larger risk to being caught with it, and invites more scrutiny. A fine way to find out how fast the arms race can accelerate is to get lots of press and force the other party into action. (Of course, now we've said this in a public forum broadcast to the world.) I encourage you to talk to Channel One. I'm also happy to help out. -- Andrew Lewman The Tor Project pgp 0x31B0974B Website: https://torproject.org/ Blog: https://blog.torproject.org/ Identica/Twitter: torproject
Re: (Solution. Please read) Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Chris Humphry wrote: > All the best and Demoracy for all! While I am fairly certain that you meant this as a wish of good will to all (thanks), you may (or may not) be surprised that some people do not equate democracy with freedom[1]. Since I equate democracy with servitude (at least any government form of it), I cannot help but feel a little hurt that you would wish it on me and everyone else. ;( Since this seems very much inconsistent to the cheerful way in which your apparently 9at least to me) mixed message is sent, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you do mean me and others well. Therefore, I will take a leap of faith and assume that what you really are wishing to all is liberty? If liberty is indeed then "ends" you wish for all (I hope it is, yeah!), more of us could join in your cheer if you left out the "means" you probably believe(?) could achieve this, democracy (or if you at least did not leave out the freedom part!) Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be the "word" police and to force some "politically correct" wording into your mouth (or email text). If you truly wish democracy for all, please continue to express this. But in the off chance that you may not have realized that some people do not equate democracy with freedom, and that you could just as well share your vision for liberty with them (without invoking visions of servitude), I thought that I if I pointed this out politely (I truly hope that I do not come off rude), it might be something that you would take into consideration with an open mind. Thanks for listening,... and "liberty for all!" -Martin [1] While I understand that many people believe that democracy is a step towards freedom, I do not. But I am not trying to debate this (or start a flame war), I am just trying to point out that some freedom loving people, such as myself, hold a different point of view. I believe that democracy is a side step that parades itself as step forward, making a true step forward much longer delayed. Again, this is not an attempt to convince anyone, but rather an explanation as to why I (and perhaps some others, particularly on this list) do not want really democracy wished upon them.
Re: (Solution. Please read) Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
>Getting TBB into the hands of those who need it is a great idea; >publicizing this fact may only harm those same people. Once it is known >the USB pen is more than just a camera, it becomes a larger risk to >being caught with it, and invites more scrutiny. A fine way to find out >how fast the arms race can accelerate is to get lots of press and force >the other party into action. (Of course, now we've said this in a >public forum broadcast to the world.) Yea, good ol' Pandora ;) CNN had the same concerns. They asked Channel One if broadcasting the pen images and info was wise. The reporter asked if Channel One was putting Iranians in danger because the authorities and militia would now look for those pens. Channel One responded by saying the pens have been in use for a while, I guess that means the past week or so. I have doubts about the abilities and sophistication of the Iranian Internet censors. They haven't blocked Tor or apparently Freegate, and I'm sure that means I2P2 gateways are also working... >I encourage you to talk to Channel One. I'm also happy to help out. Great! If you would like to contact them I think that would be best. I'm just some guy, but you are not. You know so much more than I do and it seems your grammar is better too :) An official contact from a member of the Tor Project would be a great choice, I'm sure Channel One will respond. Do you know if Pidgen translated into Farsi? I was thinking about asking them to translate the Bridges[1] and TBB install page[2] into Farsi. They could translate the text easy enough I assume. An added bonus would be if they translated the Tor Overview page[3]. [1] https://www.torproject.org/bridges [2] https://www.torproject.org/torbrowser/index.html.en [3] https://www.torproject.org/overview.html.en P.S. Would you mind CCing me? If not I understand, thanks.
Re: (Solution. Please read) Re: Help Iranian dissidents by collecting and posting Bridge addresses? (here?)
Hi mogulguy, --- On Fri, 6/19/09, molgulguy >>--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Chris Humphry >> wrote: >> All the best and Demoracy for all! >While I am fairly certain that you meant this as a wish of good will to >all (thanks), you may (or may not) be surprised that some people do >not equate democracy with freedom[1]. I was referring specifically to the Iranian dissidents who seem to want Democracy. My apologies if I offended you, I should have worded it better. I lean heavily toward your stance.
