RE: Data Transfer to Oracle 8i from SQL server 6.5 and back

[paquette stephane]

You can also have a look at heterogeneous services, I
was able to run a stored proc in SQL Server 6.5 from
Oracle 816/Sun using dynamic SQL but Oracle Support
told me it was not support. 

 --- Harvinder Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a
écrit : > u can use DTS provided by SQL server or
migration
> utility of oracle
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:41 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> hi 
> I need urgent guidence on how best we can
> transfer the data from Sql
> server 6.5 to Oracle 8i database and back to Sql
> server 6.5
> 
> pl. suggest if any site is already having readymade
> scripts.
> 
> if possible pl. suggest alternate methods too.
> 
> Thnking in advance
> Tulika 
> 
>
_
> Buy Lagaan & Yaadein music for 30% less.
> Avail this special offer at
>
http://shopping.rediff.com/shopping/music/offerrediffmailer.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> -- 
> Author: Tulika  Samrendra
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=
Stéphane Paquette
DBA Oracle, consultant entrepôt de données
Oracle DBA, datawarehouse consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Another NT question

[Bunyamin K. Karadeniz]

We will try nearly 1000 concurent users. But not yet.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:32 AM


> Anybody currently have more than 500 concurrent users on an NT box?
> Just trying to validate a compaq claim that they can handle a large
system.
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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> Author: Shaw, John B
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Re: ORA-02270 error during import

[Ravinder_Bahadur]

Probably some one has already replied  to this , in case yes then .just
ignore ...

Well this kind of problem is quite common.  This is because the export does
the  export in alphabetical order and so the import does the same. If you
contraints are based on tables which come later in the alpha order you will
hit this problem. The best solution in this case is to import either at
table level ( you will need to make sure of all the related tables are in a
sequence). The other way is to disable all foreign constraints and load and
then enable them again.

Regards
Ravinder


   

Easaw T

Mathew   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

m>   cc:   

Sent by: Subject: ORA-02270 error during import

root@fatcity.  

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26-Jun-2001

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hi

Error during import: ORA-02270: no matching unique or primary key for this
column-list

i am in the process of migrating my oracle databases from dg/ux to solaris8
OS. at the same time, i am taking the opportunity to resize the tables,
indexes to cater for growth in the near future.

to do this, i hv created fresh the new database with improved settings
(given the luxury of disk space we hv now), created the tables and indexes
with new sizings, moved the export over to the new machine and reimported
it. the export was a full export.

on import, i get the above error which means that it cant create a foreign
key constraint becos the primary key constraint for the table has not been
created. this is the case for quite a few of the tables but most of the 400
or so tables were fine.

why should this occur and under what circumstances wld this occur? and how
do i fix this?

almost all the documentation i hv checked including oracle web sites do not
offer a solution and I am not sure the best way forward without a lot of
workaround being done which may not be ideal.

wld any Oracle gurus be kind enough offer any ideas or thoughts on this
except that the export/import utility is probably buggy.

many thanx
Easaw T Mathew
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Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[novicedba]

well it does not exist
will you 'please' be more clear as to what you want to convey
coz
I am a
novice
Oracle Certifiable DBBS
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:16 PM


>
>
> I've never found hot backups shocking myself. Is it possible that rather
than
> visiting Jeremiah's site at www.speakeasy.net poor old novicedba visited
> www.spankeasy.net (I'm not even sure it exists and I'm at work so I won't
be
> checking).
>
> If it does exist I'm sure that switching logs means something entirely
different
> there.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author:
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Help on context server

[Anand Bilagi]

 
Hi
 
when i start context server  it stops in 
between
I don't get any prompt.
 
Oracle 8.1.5 Standard version On Solaris 
2.7

$ ctxsrv -user ctxsys/ctxsysNLS_LANG not set - 
using defaults.
 
Oracle ConText Option: Release 8.1.5.0.0 - 
Production on Tue Jun 26 07:37:36 2001
 
(c) Copyright 1999 Oracle Corporation.  All 
rights reserved.
 
07:37:36 06/26/01 === OCO server startup ===07:37:36 06/26/01 
Initialized CORE07:37:37 06/26/01 Connected to database.07:37:37 
06/26/01 === Initializing dispatcher ===07:37:37 06/26/01 === Server startup 
completed. ===(It Hangs here )
^C
07:37:57 06/26/01 === Server failure ===07:37:57 06/26/01 DRG-50301: 
server error reading request queue07:37:57 06/26/01 ORA-01013: user 
requested cancel of current operation
 
07:37:57 06/26/01 === Server shutting down ===
 
 
*
 
Any idea how to go it working
 
 
 
 
 
Thank YouBest Regards
 
Anand 
Bilagi

OT: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[teci]

Rachel, i'm not even on the board(OOUG) anymore(seems most people forget
that).

Hit up Kevin, he's playing webmaster.

joe
Rachel Carmichael wrote:
> 
> dunno... it's their site. oh JOE!
> 
> I'll see if I can get it fixed there. If not, again, will see if I can get
> it onto the NYOUG site
> 
> >From: "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:16:04 -0800
> >
> >Couldn't open it with PPT 97. - E
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:10 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >well, the slides are at:  http://www.ooug.org/slides.html
> >
> >i'm trying to find a copy of the paper... we gave it in Ohio and at ECO but
> >I don't see the paper on their sites. Once I get a copy, it will get posted
> >to the NYOUG site (www.nyoug.org)
> >
> >Rachel
> >
> >
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> > >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:26:20 -0800
> > >
> > >Where can I get the "exploding the myths" paper?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > > Jeremiah,
> > > >
> > > > Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what
> > >you
> > > > are doing..
> > > >
> > > > "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> > > >
> > > > and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but
> > >really
> > > > close.
> > > >
> > > > It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of
> >our
> > > > papers :)
> > > >
> > > > Rachel
> > > >
> > > > >From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> > > > >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by
> > >newbies
> > > > >and
> > > > >oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and
> > >paper
> > > > >on a
> > > > >whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot
> > >backup.
> > > > >  I
> > > > >want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites
> > >(pet
> > > > >peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for
> > >any
> > > > >ideas I
> > > > >glean.
> > > > >
> > > > >So far my favorite misconceptions are:
> > > > >
> > > > >* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> > > > >* All network communication is done through the listener
> > > > >* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> > > > >* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> > > > >* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> > > > >* Export is a good way to back up your database
> > > > >* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown
> > > > >immediate'
> > > > >* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> > > > >* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific
> >rollback
> > >seg)
> > > > >* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> > > > >* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> > > > >* Lots of extents are bad
> > > > >* Databases can't be renamed
> > > > >* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> > > > >* Listeners have to be started before the instance
> > > > >* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> > > > >* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> > > > >* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> > > > >* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> > > > >* redolog size change requires outage
> > > > >
> > > > >What's *your* pet misconception?
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Jeremiah Wilton
> > > > >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > > >
> > > > >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page
> > >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > > > > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > > > > > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > > > > > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim
> > > > >carrey-MASK style)
> > > > > > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this
> > >enlighten me
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > >--
> > > > >Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> > > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> >Lists
> > > > >
> > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Rachel Carmichael]

dunno... it's their site. oh JOE!

I'll see if I can get it fixed there. If not, again, will see if I can get 
it onto the NYOUG site




>From: "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:16:04 -0800
>
>Couldn't open it with PPT 97. - E
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:10 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>well, the slides are at:  http://www.ooug.org/slides.html
>
>i'm trying to find a copy of the paper... we gave it in Ohio and at ECO but
>I don't see the paper on their sites. Once I get a copy, it will get posted
>to the NYOUG site (www.nyoug.org)
>
>Rachel
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:26:20 -0800
> >
> >Where can I get the "exploding the myths" paper?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > > Jeremiah,
> > >
> > > Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what
> >you
> > > are doing..
> > >
> > > "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> > >
> > > and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but
> >really
> > > close.
> > >
> > > It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of 
>our
> > > papers :)
> > >
> > > Rachel
> > >
> > > >From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> > > >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
> > > >
> > > >All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by
> >newbies
> > > >and
> > > >oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and
> >paper
> > > >on a
> > > >whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot
> >backup.
> > > >  I
> > > >want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites
> >(pet
> > > >peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for
> >any
> > > >ideas I
> > > >glean.
> > > >
> > > >So far my favorite misconceptions are:
> > > >
> > > >* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> > > >* All network communication is done through the listener
> > > >* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> > > >* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> > > >* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> > > >* Export is a good way to back up your database
> > > >* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown
> > > >immediate'
> > > >* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> > > >* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific 
>rollback
> >seg)
> > > >* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> > > >* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> > > >* Lots of extents are bad
> > > >* Databases can't be renamed
> > > >* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> > > >* Listeners have to be started before the instance
> > > >* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> > > >* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> > > >* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> > > >* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> > > >* redolog size change requires outage
> > > >
> > > >What's *your* pet misconception?
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Jeremiah Wilton
> > > >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page
> >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > > > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > > > > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > > > > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim
> > > >carrey-MASK style)
> > > > > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this
> >enlighten me
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > >--
> > > >Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing 
>Lists
> > > >
> > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > >
> > > _
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.co

RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Post, Ethan]

Couldn't open it with PPT 97. - E

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


well, the slides are at:  http://www.ooug.org/slides.html

i'm trying to find a copy of the paper... we gave it in Ohio and at ECO but 
I don't see the paper on their sites. Once I get a copy, it will get posted 
to the NYOUG site (www.nyoug.org)

Rachel


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:26:20 -0800
>
>Where can I get the "exploding the myths" paper?
>
>Thanks,
>Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > Jeremiah,
> >
> > Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what 
>you
> > are doing..
> >
> > "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> >
> > and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but 
>really
> > close.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our
> > papers :)
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> > >From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> > >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
> > >
> > >All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by 
>newbies
> > >and
> > >oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and 
>paper
> > >on a
> > >whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot 
>backup.
> > >  I
> > >want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites 
>(pet
> > >peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for 
>any
> > >ideas I
> > >glean.
> > >
> > >So far my favorite misconceptions are:
> > >
> > >* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> > >* All network communication is done through the listener
> > >* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> > >* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> > >* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> > >* Export is a good way to back up your database
> > >* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown
> > >immediate'
> > >* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> > >* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback 
>seg)
> > >* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> > >* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> > >* Lots of extents are bad
> > >* Databases can't be renamed
> > >* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> > >* Listeners have to be started before the instance
> > >* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> > >* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> > >* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> > >* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> > >* redolog size change requires outage
> > >
> > >What's *your* pet misconception?
> > >
> > >--
> > >Jeremiah Wilton
> > >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > >
> > >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
> > >
> > > > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page 
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > > > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > > > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim
> > >carrey-MASK style)
> > > > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this 
>enlighten me
> > >
> > >--
> > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > >--
> > >Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > >
> > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> > _
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
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> > (or the name of mai

RE: Multiple Oracle Instances on NT

[The Oracle DBA]

I support a client with 10 instances on 1 NT server. Did I choose that, no. And it is 
a bear to admin. However, after a lot of work, it is VERY stable.

Cheers,

Earl

---

TheOracleDBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:51:07  
 TAG DBA wrote:
>Hello Lisa...
>I have been handling Oracle on NT last 6 months - and I much prefer UNIX. Here are 
>some things I learnt the hard way...
>
>>>  -  can you run multiple instances of Oracle on one NT machine
>
>yes u can. Another lister has replied to u about this - how one uses "oradim80" to 
>create "instances"/SID's
>Note that the default SID can be set in the registry - so that u dont have to do "set 
>ORACLE_SID=" everytime
>Note that there is no "oraenv" in NT
>For every SID there will be 2 services in NT - one called OracleServiceURSID and 
>another OracleStartURSID. If u keep the latter as "start automatically" - ur db will 
>come up auto when NT boots up. The former is always required. U can alter the 
>settings by recreating the instance using oradim
>
>>>  -  if so, what do I need to look out for (ie. what things are differentthat a 
>Unix installation)
>>>  -  are any of the processes, etc. drastically different - ie. 
>security,networking, logging
>
>Dont foreget to create the oradba group.  Also Oracle runs as a single process - 
>there are no different shadow processes. So everything is clumped in one. The 
>TaskManager might show u how many threads are running in one process (it does not 
>break up for each app on the machine - so if only the Oracle server is running - the 
>figure u see should correspond to the number of Oracle related processes)
>Further note that Oracle runs as user "system" - thats an internal hidden system mode 
>in NT. So there might be occassions when u change permissions on some orcale related 
>directory and then find that oracle cant access the files - thats cause u removed 
>"systems" access. Just give required permission to "system" on those files/directory
>
>>>  -  what type of system requirements (ie. memory, CPU) are needed on NT
>
>Well that depends on ur requirements. Try to configure ur NT box so that its 
>"dedicated" to the job of being a database server. U can find some notes on metalink 
>on this. Ensure that ur NT box does not double as a PDC (primary domain controller).
>
>Finally reboot machine as often as u can - I have found memory being allocated and 
>not being released. Keep LOTS of memory - I have seen the NT box freezing and 
>refusing connections when it no longer had memory to create a shadown process. (only 
>soln - crash boot the machine)
>Further dont use "copy" command to do ur hotbackups - use the "ocopy" command instead.
>Thats all I can think of now..
>regards,
>~aslam
>(PS: I had enough of NT - migrating to Solaris in a months time)
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From:  Yttri, Lisa [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent:  Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:46 AM
>To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject:   Multiple Oracle Instances on NT
>
>Hi everyone -
>
>I have worked exclusively with Oracle on Unix, but not at all with Oracle on
>NT.  Our users have come to us with a requirement to run an application with
>their database on NT.  They want to build both a test and production
>environment on the same NT box.
>
>I would like to know some "basics" about running Oracle on NT
>  -  can you run multiple instances of Oracle on one NT machine
>  -  if so, what do I need to look out for (ie. what things are different
>that a Unix installation)
>  -  are any of the processes, etc. drastically different - ie. security,
>networking, logging
>  -  what type of system requirements (ie. memory, CPU) are needed on NT
>
>Thanks for any help you can give me!
>Lisa
> << File: ATT00326.html >> 


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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Post, Ethan]

Good thread but I have not been following so I apologize if this was already
said:

PCTINCREASE = 1

- Ethan

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:51 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jeremiah,

Here's some more misconceptions for ya!:

* You *have* to take a COLD backup of the database after using resetlogs.
(Not required - a Hot backup and archive logs is adequate. All hot backups /
archive logs prior to that are invalid, though...)
* You *have* to create an additional Rollback segment in the SYSTEM
tablespace before creating *any* object in a tablespace other than SYSTEM
(even additional Rbs in a non-SYSTEM tablespace). This used to be true in V6
and before, not anymore.
* Backup the online redologs along with the datafiles/controlfiles in a Hot
backup (Disaster strikes when the redologs are restored on the current
online redo logs!!)
* Continuously run ALTER TABLESPACE COALESCE
* Allocate different values of INITIAL/NEXT extent sizes for large objects
depending on the 'expected growth pattern' - this makes sure that the number
of extents for large objects is kept down. (Sheesh!)
* COMPRESS=Y during Export compresses the extents into 1 huge extent, and
that's GOOD!
* Make sure that all your Tablespaces have at least 15% (or whatever) free
(i.e. stress the percentage rather than making sure that the largest free
fragment is larger than the largest NEXT extent at the least)
* You are absolutely protected from Redolog file corruption by hardware
multiplexing it. (i.e. What if you fat-fingered an online redolog?)

I might have added more on Tuning and Performance, but Gaja has already
exploded all those myths!

One thing I will note though - there's bound to be lots of fire and flak
erupting in your presentation. There are *lots* of so-called experienced
DataBase Baby Sitters out there fed exclusively on 'Oracle for Dummies'
books who had adopted these myths as reality and will be prepared to defend
their position. You will need documented evidence in the form of logs or
timings to make your stand for exploding some of these myths.

All the best! 
John Kanagaraj

PS: On a related topic, I am unable to submit an abstract for OOW. Have been
unable to do so for quite a while - spoke to Oracle, emailed 'em of no
avail. Anyone else with the same story? (Or advice as to how this can be
done?)

>-Original Message-
>From: Jeremiah Wilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:05 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>
>
>All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type 
>held by newbies and
>oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a 
>presentation and paper on a
>whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote 
>for hot backup.  I
>want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your 
>favorites (pet
>peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this 
>list for any ideas I
>glean.
>
>So far my favorite misconceptions are:
>
>* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
>* All network communication is done through the listener
>* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
>* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
>* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
>* Export is a good way to back up your database
>* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 
>'shutdown immediate'
>* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
>* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific 
>rollback seg)
>* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
>* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
>* Lots of extents are bad
>* Databases can't be renamed
>* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
>* Listeners have to be started before the instance
>* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
>* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
>* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
>* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
>* redolog size change requires outage
>
>What's *your* pet misconception?
>
>--
>Jeremiah Wilton
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
>
>> I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page 
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>> I was shocked to read Hot 
>backup mode explained
>> If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
>> 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! 
>(Jim carrey-MASK style)
>> Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this 
>enlighten me
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>-- 
>Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PR

Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?

[Rachel Carmichael]

Stephane,

Um, how about because hardware maintenance is needed on the primary server?  
I know I would much rather gracefully schedule a fallover and fallback to do 
something like that, given the luxury of actually being able to close the 
database for the few minutes it takes to complete the switch.

In the case of a crash, of course all bets are off -- you can't really DO a 
graceful switchover (well,remote mirroring the online logs maybe)

But we all always forget that there are on occasion SCHEDULED downtimes to 
build procedures for

Rachel


>From: Stephane Faroult <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:27:34 -0800
>
>But in practice, why would you switch to the standby database, unless
>the primary database is crashed or worse? You know how it is in a
>production environment, the database crashes. Even if failover is easy,
>you always have to instruct users to connect as scott/tiger@backup
>instead of scott/tiger@prod - or perhaps modify the tnsnames.ora to make
>it transparent, or perhaps play with IP addresses which may mean trouble
>for a while with in-memory routing tables etc. My point is that, even if
>the switch can be quasi-immediate, it is not so easy, so people will
>naturally try to make the main machine work first, there will be some
>delay assessing the damage, waiting until 2am to ring the VP in his bed
>to get the authorization to switch, etc. In real life, half-an-hour or
>an hour is easily passed before everybody is back at work on the backup
>machine, busy trying to catch up on the wasted time. Do not forget that
>since the transmission of redo logs is asynchronous (I have heard about
>improvements with 9i) some transactions - committed ones - will have
>been lost, so users will have to check and probably reenter the missing
>transactions. At this point the main machine will probably be totally
>out of order. Wait another 2 or 4 hours to have somebody to come if it's
>a hardware problem, I guess that when everything is over everybody will
>be on their knees and the last thing they will have in mind is make the
>old primary database the new standby - assuming of course that all files
>are intact. And even if the ex-standby machine is possibly less
>powerful, everybody will probably wait until a quieter time, say the
>W/E, to switch back to the initial configuration. At which time, in all
>likelihood, a full database copy will have become necessary; I think
>that the simple fact of having reentered a couple of transactions not
>transmitted yet to the standby database would require it. Do I err ?
>
>--
>Regards,
>
>Stephane Faroult
>Oriole Corporation
>Voice:  +44  (0) 7050-696-269
>Fax:+44  (0) 7050-696-449
>Performance Tools & Free Scripts
>--
>http://www.oriole.com, designed by Oracle DBAs for Oracle DBAs
>--
>
>Jeremiah Wilton wrote:
> >
> > With graceful standby failover (I demo'd it last year at OOW), you can 
>switch
> > back and forth, back and forth as many times as you want without 
>recopying any
> > database.
> >
> > Basically, when you fail over to a standby, you shut down the primary, 
>apply all
> > the archived redologs to the standby, then copy all the online logs and 
>the
> > controlfile from the primary to the standby.  People who use incremental
> > checkpoints (DB_BLOCK_MAX_DIRTY_TARGET) must do a 'create controlfile 
>reuse
> > database  noresetlogs' at this point.  Other people don't have to.
> >
> > Finally, you "recover database" to get the last one or two online logs 
>and open
> > the standby "noresetogs."  The standby just picks up the chain of SCNs 
>where the
> > primary left off.
> >
> > The old primary can be immediately pressed into service as a standby.  
>Just
> > generate a standby controlfile on the new primary, copy it into place on 
>the old
> > primary and start it up as a standby database.
> >
> > You can go back and forth in this way as many times as you want, and one 
>just
> > picks up the chain of SCNs where the last one left off.  You never get a
> > divergence of changes.
> >
> > I have talked to people who found this out, and looked like they were 
>going to
> > cry, thinking of the countless hours they had spent after every standby
> > failover, recopying to the standby to get it rollong forward again.
> >
> > In 9i, they have an "automated" graceful failover mechanism for standby
> > database.  I haven't taken a look at it yet.  Probably it is a massive
> > java-based GUI that instantly consumes 512Mb or RAM.
> >
> > --
> > Jeremiah Wilton
> > http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
> >
> > > OK.  I admit my knowledge on standby is minimal, having only read up 
>on it,
> > > fiddled with it and used the idea 

RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?

[Rachel Carmichael]

there is a paper out on Metalink called Graceful Switchover and Switchback 
by Lawrence To (who is my hero )  that describes this concept. Revised 
and valid for 7.3, 8.0 and 8.1

Rachel


>From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:21:00 -0800
>
>With graceful standby failover (I demo'd it last year at OOW), you can 
>switch
>back and forth, back and forth as many times as you want without recopying 
>any
>database.
>
>Basically, when you fail over to a standby, you shut down the primary, 
>apply all
>the archived redologs to the standby, then copy all the online logs and the
>controlfile from the primary to the standby.  People who use incremental
>checkpoints (DB_BLOCK_MAX_DIRTY_TARGET) must do a 'create controlfile reuse
>database  noresetlogs' at this point.  Other people don't have to.
>
>Finally, you "recover database" to get the last one or two online logs and 
>open
>the standby "noresetogs."  The standby just picks up the chain of SCNs 
>where the
>primary left off.
>
>The old primary can be immediately pressed into service as a standby.  Just
>generate a standby controlfile on the new primary, copy it into place on 
>the old
>primary and start it up as a standby database.
>
>You can go back and forth in this way as many times as you want, and one 
>just
>picks up the chain of SCNs where the last one left off.  You never get a
>divergence of changes.
>
>I have talked to people who found this out, and looked like they were going 
>to
>cry, thinking of the countless hours they had spent after every standby
>failover, recopying to the standby to get it rollong forward again.
>
>In 9i, they have an "automated" graceful failover mechanism for standby
>database.  I haven't taken a look at it yet.  Probably it is a massive
>java-based GUI that instantly consumes 512Mb or RAM.
>
>--
>Jeremiah Wilton
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
>
> > OK.  I admit my knowledge on standby is minimal, having only read up on 
>it,
> > fiddled with it and used the idea sparingly for migrations.
> >
> > However, Jeremiah, I'm very curious.  You state that 'Must reinstantiate
> > standby after failover by recopying' is a misconception. Yes, like many 
>of
> > the things you state below, the documentation does say that - once you 
>open
> > a standby db in r/w mode, it is no longer a valid standby after 
>switching
> > back to the primary.
> >
> > Can someone shed some light on why this is not true?  It seemed to make
> > complete sense to me.  I can see how opening a database read only will 
>work
> > and not invalidate the standby, but r/w?
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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>
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>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Rachel Carmichael]

>From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:40:50 -0800
>
>




>Of course I plan to explain them, but tell me what intrigues you.  I'd love
>to hash the issues out here before I make a fool of myself in SF in
>December.
>

Jeremiah, it's not possible for you to do that of course, I may have to 
argue the questionaire answers with you again :)


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Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Rachel Carmichael]

well, the slides are at:  http://www.ooug.org/slides.html

i'm trying to find a copy of the paper... we gave it in Ohio and at ECO but 
I don't see the paper on their sites. Once I get a copy, it will get posted 
to the NYOUG site (www.nyoug.org)

Rachel


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:26:20 -0800
>
>Where can I get the "exploding the myths" paper?
>
>Thanks,
>Ken Janusz, CPIM
> > Jeremiah,
> >
> > Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what 
>you
> > are doing..
> >
> > "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> >
> > and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but 
>really
> > close.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our
> > papers :)
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> > >From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> > >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
> > >
> > >All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by 
>newbies
> > >and
> > >oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and 
>paper
> > >on a
> > >whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot 
>backup.
> > >  I
> > >want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites 
>(pet
> > >peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for 
>any
> > >ideas I
> > >glean.
> > >
> > >So far my favorite misconceptions are:
> > >
> > >* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> > >* All network communication is done through the listener
> > >* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> > >* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> > >* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> > >* Export is a good way to back up your database
> > >* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown
> > >immediate'
> > >* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> > >* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback 
>seg)
> > >* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> > >* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> > >* Lots of extents are bad
> > >* Databases can't be renamed
> > >* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> > >* Listeners have to be started before the instance
> > >* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> > >* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> > >* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> > >* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> > >* redolog size change requires outage
> > >
> > >What's *your* pet misconception?
> > >
> > >--
> > >Jeremiah Wilton
> > >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > >
> > >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
> > >
> > > > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page 
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > > > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > > > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim
> > >carrey-MASK style)
> > > > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this 
>enlighten me
> > >
> > >--
> > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > >--
> > >Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>Please see the 

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Jon Allen]

Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk
Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed
to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to
not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows
have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy
transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably
wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not
here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that
windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers,
and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows the
ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management
cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just pisses
me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine,
but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and
the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn
down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of which
you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you
wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I emphasize
IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and often
does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that you
HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything
to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a good
thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that
through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing
anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing,  what you
need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the parts
of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how
everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing,
and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the problem.
Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day
things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun, or
TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows of
sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I
walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a
bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers
hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I think
"fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you think
that this place really was bright enough to hire a knowledgeable person to
make the decisions in the first place. I mean come on they're whole
company plan is based around ." Its not a
coincidence that there are rows of 6500/5500's and e10k's doing the
important work and slews of relatively cheap windows machines doing the
grunt labor that isnt what fuels the business... and its not cause sun has
a great marketing/sales department either (most of those guys dont know
their head from their ass). The world is full of generalizations so here's
mine: Windows is good for what it does. The average person doesnt have to
learn much/anything to use it. It sucks at what it doesnt do, and it
doesnt do high availability. As for the quote, its not mine, I just found
it amusing. I dont constantly complain about windows because I dont use
it, but then again, I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
information about a 3rd rate os on to others... all that breeds is some
more 3rd rate people ;) All I'm doing is protecting my sanity/nerves by
having a few less morons out there, but as I can see its already too late
for some :)

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all 
customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he 
who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's 
done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin wrote:

> Actually, I read it on my Palm Pilot, it must not have come through because
> the Palm isn't Unix based.  I'll get on coding that first thing in the
> morning!  Or perhaps, it's because you never said it.  Don't worry, I am
> reeeally impressed with your use of big words and how much you want to stand
> up for you loving OS.  If you would like you post your resume, IQ score, SAT
> scores, Certifications and anything else for your sig instead of that quote
> about Bill Gates.  I don't know, I am sensing a little anger and jealousy
> here towards poor old Bill!:)
> P.S.  Keep it coming, this has been the most fun that my Exchange server has
> ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:)
>
> KK
>
> -Original Message---

Re: RE: Data Transfer to Oracle 8i from SQL server 6.5 and back

[Tulika Samrendra]

Hi Harvinder
   Thaknks, but it will some sort of batch job which will be running 
everyday. it's not an one time job.
can u give some specific pointer?

does sql servr 6.5 provide DTS.

Thanks
Tulika
- Original Message --
Harvinder Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From:Harvinder Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:50:36 -0800
Subject:RE: Data Transfer to Oracle 8i from SQL server 6.5 and back

u can use DTS provided by SQL server or migration utility of oracle

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


hi 
I need urgent guidence on how best we can transfer the data from Sql
server 6.5 to Oracle 8i database and back to Sql server 6.5

pl. suggest if any site is already having readymade scripts.

if possible pl. suggest alternate methods too.

Thnking in advance
Tulika 

_
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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[John Kanagaraj]

Jeremiah,

Here's some more misconceptions for ya!:

* You *have* to take a COLD backup of the database after using resetlogs.
(Not required - a Hot backup and archive logs is adequate. All hot backups /
archive logs prior to that are invalid, though...)
* You *have* to create an additional Rollback segment in the SYSTEM
tablespace before creating *any* object in a tablespace other than SYSTEM
(even additional Rbs in a non-SYSTEM tablespace). This used to be true in V6
and before, not anymore.
* Backup the online redologs along with the datafiles/controlfiles in a Hot
backup (Disaster strikes when the redologs are restored on the current
online redo logs!!)
* Continuously run ALTER TABLESPACE COALESCE
* Allocate different values of INITIAL/NEXT extent sizes for large objects
depending on the 'expected growth pattern' - this makes sure that the number
of extents for large objects is kept down. (Sheesh!)
* COMPRESS=Y during Export compresses the extents into 1 huge extent, and
that's GOOD!
* Make sure that all your Tablespaces have at least 15% (or whatever) free
(i.e. stress the percentage rather than making sure that the largest free
fragment is larger than the largest NEXT extent at the least)
* You are absolutely protected from Redolog file corruption by hardware
multiplexing it. (i.e. What if you fat-fingered an online redolog?)

I might have added more on Tuning and Performance, but Gaja has already
exploded all those myths!

One thing I will note though - there's bound to be lots of fire and flak
erupting in your presentation. There are *lots* of so-called experienced
DataBase Baby Sitters out there fed exclusively on 'Oracle for Dummies'
books who had adopted these myths as reality and will be prepared to defend
their position. You will need documented evidence in the form of logs or
timings to make your stand for exploding some of these myths.

All the best! 
John Kanagaraj

PS: On a related topic, I am unable to submit an abstract for OOW. Have been
unable to do so for quite a while - spoke to Oracle, emailed 'em of no
avail. Anyone else with the same story? (Or advice as to how this can be
done?)

>-Original Message-
>From: Jeremiah Wilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:05 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>
>
>All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type 
>held by newbies and
>oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a 
>presentation and paper on a
>whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote 
>for hot backup.  I
>want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your 
>favorites (pet
>peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this 
>list for any ideas I
>glean.
>
>So far my favorite misconceptions are:
>
>* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
>* All network communication is done through the listener
>* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
>* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
>* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
>* Export is a good way to back up your database
>* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 
>'shutdown immediate'
>* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
>* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific 
>rollback seg)
>* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
>* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
>* Lots of extents are bad
>* Databases can't be renamed
>* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
>* Listeners have to be started before the instance
>* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
>* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
>* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
>* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
>* redolog size change requires outage
>
>What's *your* pet misconception?
>
>--
>Jeremiah Wilton
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
>
>> I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page 
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>> I was shocked to read Hot 
>backup mode explained
>> If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
>> 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! 
>(Jim carrey-MASK style)
>> Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this 
>enlighten me
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>-- 
>Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for oth

Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?

[Stephane Faroult]

But in practice, why would you switch to the standby database, unless
the primary database is crashed or worse? You know how it is in a
production environment, the database crashes. Even if failover is easy,
you always have to instruct users to connect as scott/tiger@backup
instead of scott/tiger@prod - or perhaps modify the tnsnames.ora to make
it transparent, or perhaps play with IP addresses which may mean trouble
for a while with in-memory routing tables etc. My point is that, even if
the switch can be quasi-immediate, it is not so easy, so people will
naturally try to make the main machine work first, there will be some
delay assessing the damage, waiting until 2am to ring the VP in his bed
to get the authorization to switch, etc. In real life, half-an-hour or
an hour is easily passed before everybody is back at work on the backup
machine, busy trying to catch up on the wasted time. Do not forget that
since the transmission of redo logs is asynchronous (I have heard about
improvements with 9i) some transactions - committed ones - will have
been lost, so users will have to check and probably reenter the missing
transactions. At this point the main machine will probably be totally
out of order. Wait another 2 or 4 hours to have somebody to come if it's
a hardware problem, I guess that when everything is over everybody will
be on their knees and the last thing they will have in mind is make the
old primary database the new standby - assuming of course that all files
are intact. And even if the ex-standby machine is possibly less
powerful, everybody will probably wait until a quieter time, say the
W/E, to switch back to the initial configuration. At which time, in all
likelihood, a full database copy will have become necessary; I think
that the simple fact of having reentered a couple of transactions not
transmitted yet to the standby database would require it. Do I err ?

-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Corporation
Voice:  +44  (0) 7050-696-269 
Fax:+44  (0) 7050-696-449 
Performance Tools & Free Scripts
--
http://www.oriole.com, designed by Oracle DBAs for Oracle DBAs
--

Jeremiah Wilton wrote:
> 
> With graceful standby failover (I demo'd it last year at OOW), you can switch
> back and forth, back and forth as many times as you want without recopying any
> database.
> 
> Basically, when you fail over to a standby, you shut down the primary, apply all
> the archived redologs to the standby, then copy all the online logs and the
> controlfile from the primary to the standby.  People who use incremental
> checkpoints (DB_BLOCK_MAX_DIRTY_TARGET) must do a 'create controlfile reuse
> database  noresetlogs' at this point.  Other people don't have to.
> 
> Finally, you "recover database" to get the last one or two online logs and open
> the standby "noresetogs."  The standby just picks up the chain of SCNs where the
> primary left off.
> 
> The old primary can be immediately pressed into service as a standby.  Just
> generate a standby controlfile on the new primary, copy it into place on the old
> primary and start it up as a standby database.
> 
> You can go back and forth in this way as many times as you want, and one just
> picks up the chain of SCNs where the last one left off.  You never get a
> divergence of changes.
> 
> I have talked to people who found this out, and looked like they were going to
> cry, thinking of the countless hours they had spent after every standby
> failover, recopying to the standby to get it rollong forward again.
> 
> In 9i, they have an "automated" graceful failover mechanism for standby
> database.  I haven't taken a look at it yet.  Probably it is a massive
> java-based GUI that instantly consumes 512Mb or RAM.
> 
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> 
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote:
> 
> > OK.  I admit my knowledge on standby is minimal, having only read up on it,
> > fiddled with it and used the idea sparingly for migrations.
> >
> > However, Jeremiah, I'm very curious.  You state that 'Must reinstantiate
> > standby after failover by recopying' is a misconception. Yes, like many of
> > the things you state below, the documentation does say that - once you open
> > a standby db in r/w mode, it is no longer a valid standby after switching
> > back to the primary.
> >
> > Can someone shed some light on why this is not true?  It seemed to make
> > complete sense to me.  I can see how opening a database read only will work
> > and not invalidate the standby, but r/w?
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- P

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin]

Actually, I read it on my Palm Pilot, it must not have come through because
the Palm isn't Unix based.  I'll get on coding that first thing in the
morning!  Or perhaps, it's because you never said it.  Don't worry, I am
reeeally impressed with your use of big words and how much you want to stand
up for you loving OS.  If you would like you post your resume, IQ score, SAT
scores, Certifications and anything else for your sig instead of that quote
about Bill Gates.  I don't know, I am sensing a little anger and jealousy
here towards poor old Bill!:)
P.S.  Keep it coming, this has been the most fun that my Exchange server has
ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:)

KK

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically
say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver
that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session
hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply
messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a
5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and
dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram
cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is
wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of
patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent
product for end users.

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
how it's done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote:

> Oooh...wow!  Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
> business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder
pipe
> dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is
also
> just a big fat waste of time.  Then everyone can get rid of their
computers
> that have windows and Unix can take over the world.  Yeah...archaic coding
> at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright
> KK
> :)
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
> Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
> w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > :)
> > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > system worldview.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > To: Mohan, Ross
> > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> >
> >
> > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less
a
> > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on
top
> > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT,
so
> > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that
linux
> > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time

Re: the "Red Hat Database"

[Stephane Faroult]

Jonathan Gennick wrote:
> 
> I'm intrigued by the fact that Red Hat plans to derive a new database
> from PostgreSQL, name it the "Red Hat Database", and attempt to
> compete in the database marketplace. Just a couple years ago, Red Hat
> and Oracle seemed to be fairly tight. What happened to break them up?
> 
> Red Hat has some good name recognition, and PostgreSQL is well
> respected. Should Oracle worry? Does Red Hat have a good chance at
> garnering some marketshare at the low end?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jonathan Gennick
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * 906.387.1698
> http://Gennick.com * http://MichiganWaterfalls.com * http://MetalDrums.org

Jonathan,

   I am very interested too. Seems to be a testing time for Oracle.
Microsoft-bashing is  a popular enough sport for them not too be worried
about SQL Server spilling out of the MS-only world. But Red Hat, which
benefits from public sympathy, could probably be a significant threat at
the low end, and more so with the obvious current pressure of DB2 at the
other end. Oracle do not really seem to have made up their mind about
Linux, and they just happened to be, well, squeezed may be too strong a
word, but assailed at both ends by avowed Linux enthusiasts. I am pretty
shocked in fact by the current IBM-bashing in Oracle ads (all the more
as IBM have always refrained from competitive advertising), and there is
a point where aggressivity is just an expression of fear. Anyway, all
they have succeeded in doing is bringing my attention anew to DB2 (which
I have not practiced since 1990). It will be interesting to see whether
they behave the same against Red Hat. If they do, it will mean
something.

I have known a time when Oracle's foe was Ingres. Then, the first time I
heard the name of Sybase was in early 1987 from the lips of Derry
Kabcenell, at an internal Oracle meeting, as the answer to a question
asked by a salesman 'Oracle apart, what is the best RDBMS today?'. After
the System 10 flop, Oracle reigned unquestioned, vaguely annoyed by SQL
Server. I find today's situation sounder. 

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Corporation
Voice:  +44  (0) 7050-696-269 
Fax:+44  (0) 7050-696-449 
Performance Tools & Free Scripts
--
http://www.oriole.com, designed by Oracle DBAs for Oracle DBAs
--
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-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin]

DaXXit!!!  Oh well, it was worth the picture in my head though!! :)
KK

-Original Message-
Edward
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


It isn't monochrome anymore... Really! :-)

http://www.themes.org/php/pic.phtml?src=shots/990462645.jpg


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Oooh...wow!  Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe
dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also
just a big fat waste of time.  Then everyone can get rid of their computers
that have windows and Unix can take over the world.  Yeah...archaic coding
at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright
KK
:)


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RE: Sqlplus--how to suppress "Connected."

[Khedr, Waleed]

make your first line: / AS SYSDBA
and call the script as: sqlplus -S @script_name

Regards,

Waleed

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

I am calling a SQL script from a Unix Korn shell
script and I can't seem to prevent SQL*Plus from
responding with the text "Connected." when my script
logs into the database.

I am calling the script using:
   sqlplus -S /NOLOG @script_name

The first line of script_name.sql contains the text
"CONNECT / AS SYSDBA".

Any suggestions?

Thanks again!
-w

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RE: Data Transfer to Oracle 8i from SQL server 6.5 and back

[Harvinder Singh]

u can use DTS provided by SQL server or migration utility of oracle

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


hi 
I need urgent guidence on how best we can transfer the data from Sql
server 6.5 to Oracle 8i database and back to Sql server 6.5

pl. suggest if any site is already having readymade scripts.

if possible pl. suggest alternate methods too.

Thnking in advance
Tulika 

_
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Sqlplus--how to suppress "Connected."

[Walter K]

Hi,

I am calling a SQL script from a Unix Korn shell
script and I can't seem to prevent SQL*Plus from
responding with the text "Connected." when my script
logs into the database.

I am calling the script using:
   sqlplus -S /NOLOG @script_name

The first line of script_name.sql contains the text
"CONNECT / AS SYSDBA".

Any suggestions?

Thanks again!
-w

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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?

[Jeremiah Wilton]

With graceful standby failover (I demo'd it last year at OOW), you can switch
back and forth, back and forth as many times as you want without recopying any
database.

Basically, when you fail over to a standby, you shut down the primary, apply all
the archived redologs to the standby, then copy all the online logs and the
controlfile from the primary to the standby.  People who use incremental
checkpoints (DB_BLOCK_MAX_DIRTY_TARGET) must do a 'create controlfile reuse
database  noresetlogs' at this point.  Other people don't have to.

Finally, you "recover database" to get the last one or two online logs and open
the standby "noresetogs."  The standby just picks up the chain of SCNs where the
primary left off.

The old primary can be immediately pressed into service as a standby.  Just
generate a standby controlfile on the new primary, copy it into place on the old
primary and start it up as a standby database.

You can go back and forth in this way as many times as you want, and one just
picks up the chain of SCNs where the last one left off.  You never get a
divergence of changes.

I have talked to people who found this out, and looked like they were going to
cry, thinking of the countless hours they had spent after every standby
failover, recopying to the standby to get it rollong forward again.

In 9i, they have an "automated" graceful failover mechanism for standby
database.  I haven't taken a look at it yet.  Probably it is a massive
java-based GUI that instantly consumes 512Mb or RAM.

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote:

> OK.  I admit my knowledge on standby is minimal, having only read up on it,
> fiddled with it and used the idea sparingly for migrations.
>
> However, Jeremiah, I'm very curious.  You state that 'Must reinstantiate
> standby after failover by recopying' is a misconception. Yes, like many of
> the things you state below, the documentation does say that - once you open
> a standby db in r/w mode, it is no longer a valid standby after switching
> back to the primary.
>
> Can someone shed some light on why this is not true?  It seemed to make
> complete sense to me.  I can see how opening a database read only will work
> and not invalidate the standby, but r/w?

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Data Transfer to Oracle 8i from SQL server 6.5 and back

[Tulika Samrendra]

hi 
I need urgent guidence on how best we can transfer the data from Sql server 6.5 to 
Oracle 8i database and back to Sql server 6.5

pl. suggest if any site is already having readymade scripts.

if possible pl. suggest alternate methods too.

Thnking in advance
Tulika 

_
Buy Lagaan & Yaadein music for 30% less.
Avail this special offer at 
http://shopping.rediff.com/shopping/music/offerrediffmailer.htm 



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Re: Intelligent Agent Upgrade

[TCarlson]

Looks good, if you uninstall the 8.0.5 agent.

Todd Carlson
Oracle 8i Certified DBA
Bunge North America


   

   

 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  

"Guggenmos,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Jeff"cc:   

 

   Sent by:

root@fatcity.  

com

   

   

   06/26/2001  

05:42 PM   

   Please  

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   





What is the best way to upgrade the intelligent agent on a system w/o
actually upgrading the Oracle server version? I need more information other
than what I read on metalink (a procedure)

I have an Oracle server version 8.0.5 and want to run/upgrade the
intelligent agent to 8.1.7

I have already done the following as specified on metalink (Note:112853.1):

Starting from Oracle 8.1.5, the new Universal Installer is used to install
the Oracle software. To install the Intelligent Agent using the Universal
Installer, perform the following steps:
1) In the File Location window, specify a new $ORACLE_HOME name and a new
physical location.
2) Do a 'Custom Install'.
3) In the product list, select the following products: - Net8 Products
8.1.6
-- Net8 Client -- Net8 Server - Oracle Enterprise Manager Products 8.1.6 --
Oracle Intelligent Agent Unselect all other products.
4) Finish the installation and perform the OS specific post-install tasks.
(like running root.sh on UNIX)


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RE: NT Script ?

[Reardon, Bruce (CALBBAY)]

Kevin,

As requested, and showing another way to get the date.
If you don't want the seconds for the time you could use time /t.

Regards,
Bruce

C:\batch> test_time.bat
[08504789]
[0604Mon]

---

@echo off
rem test_time.bat

call :get_timestamp

call :get_datestamp

goto :EOF

:::


:get_timestamp

:: get the time in format hhmmssxx, where 'xx' is hundredths of a
second
::  because want ssxx can not use time/t
   for /f "tokens=1-8 delims=:. " %%a in ('echo.^| time ^| find "current"')
do (
   set zhh=%%e
   set zmm=%%f
   set zss=%%g
   set zxx=%%h
   )

   if 10 GTR %zhh% set zhh=0%zhh%

:: assign the values to ztimefull
   set ztimefull=%zhh%%zmm%%zss%%zxx%
 
   echo [%ztimefull%]

rem cleanup
   set zhh=
   set zmm=
   set zss=
   set zxx=

   goto :EOF

:::


:get_datestamp

:: get the time in format mmdd
   for /f "tokens=1-8 delims=:.-/ " %%a in ('echo.^| date ^| find
"current"') do (
   set z=%%h
   set zmm=%%g
   set zdd=%%f
   )


:: assign the values to zdatefull
   set zdatefull=%z%%zmm%%zdd%
 
   echo [%zdatefull%]

rem cleanup
   set z=
   set zmm=
   set zdd=

   goto :EOF

:::

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2001 7:33 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi all,
Was wondering if anyone of the brains out there would know how to
add the
hour and minute to this beautiful little script that Tom Mercadante provided
me with?  Not that Tom couldn't do it himself, he just didn't, I didn't ask
for it the first time that I requested such a script.
Thanks again Tom, this will help me out beautifully:)

rem 
rem echo off
IF NOT '%1'=='' GOTO SetEnvVars
for /F "delims=/ tokens=1-4" %%i in ('date /t') do today.BAT %%i %%j %%k
%%l
GOTO Done
:SetEnvVars
:: set DayOfWeek=%1
set Month=%2
set Day=%3
set Year=%4
:Done
rem 


Sincerely,
Kevin Kostyszyn
DBA
Dulcian, Inc
www.dulcian.com
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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Jon Allen]

Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically
say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver
that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session
hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply
messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a
5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and
dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram
cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is
wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of
patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent
product for end users.

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all 
customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he 
who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's 
done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote:

> Oooh...wow!  Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
> business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe
> dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also
> just a big fat waste of time.  Then everyone can get rid of their computers
> that have windows and Unix can take over the world.  Yeah...archaic coding
> at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright
> KK
> :)
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
> Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
> w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > :)
> > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > system worldview.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > To: Mohan, Ross
> > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> >
> >
> > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a
> > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top
> > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so
> > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux
> > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there
> > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more
> > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the
> > future.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > jon
> >
> >
> > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> into
> > it in the first place."
> >
> > -- Douglas Adams
> >
> > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> > how it's done."
> >
> > -- Scott Adams
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> >
> > > Here's my Unix box:
>

RE: Another NT question

[Tom Pall]

I believe Oracle on NT/Alpha has fewer bug reports against it than
Oracle on NT/Intel.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Does it matter NT/Alpha or NT/Intel?

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Anybody currently have more than 500 concurrent users on an NT box?
Just trying to validate a compaq claim that they can handle a large system.

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Intelligent Agent Upgrade

[Guggenmos, Jeff]

> What is the best way to upgrade the intelligent agent on a system w/o
> actually upgrading the Oracle server version? I need more information
> other than what I read on metalink (a procedure)
> 
> I have an Oracle server version 8.0.5 and want to run/upgrade the
> intelligent agent to 8.1.7
> 
> I have already done the following as specified on metalink
> (Note:112853.1):
> 
> Starting from Oracle 8.1.5, the new Universal Installer is used to install
> the Oracle software. To install the Intelligent Agent using the Universal
> Installer, perform the following steps: 
> 1) In the File Location window, specify a new $ORACLE_HOME name and a new
> physical location. 
> 2) Do a 'Custom Install'.
> 3) In the product list, select the following products: - Net8 Products
> 8.1.6 -- Net8 Client -- Net8 Server - Oracle Enterprise Manager Products
> 8.1.6 -- Oracle Intelligent Agent Unselect all other products.
> 4) Finish the installation and perform the OS specific post-install tasks.
> (like running root.sh on UNIX) 
> 
> 
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RE: Intelligent Agent Upgrade

[Guggenmos, Jeff]

Just for further clarification, I am interested in this from a client
perspective.

I want to update the agent on my servers that are being monitored by a
central OMS.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What is the best way to upgrade the intelligent agent on a system w/o
actually upgrading the Oracle server version? I need more information other
than what I read on metalink (a procedure)

I have an Oracle server version 8.0.5 and want to run/upgrade the
intelligent agent to 8.1.7

I have already done the following as specified on metalink (Note:112853.1):

Starting from Oracle 8.1.5, the new Universal Installer is used to install
the Oracle software. To install the Intelligent Agent using the Universal
Installer, perform the following steps: 
1) In the File Location window, specify a new $ORACLE_HOME name and a new
physical location. 
2) Do a 'Custom Install'.
3) In the product list, select the following products: - Net8 Products 8.1.6
-- Net8 Client -- Net8 Server - Oracle Enterprise Manager Products 8.1.6 --
Oracle Intelligent Agent Unselect all other products.
4) Finish the installation and perform the OS specific post-install tasks.
(like running root.sh on UNIX) 


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RE: Another NT question

[Tom Pall]

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Does it matter NT/Alpha or NT/Intel?

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Anybody currently have more than 500 concurrent users on an NT box?
Just trying to validate a compaq claim that they can handle a large system.

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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Jon Allen]

lol, thanks for the link ;)

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all 
customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he 
who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's 
done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:

> 
>
> Thanks for the kudos, Jon.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:34 PM
> To: Mohan, Ross
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>
>
> I see you've picked up some buzzwords like "PNG", "GPS", "nanokernel", and
> no doubt "warez" where you got caught trading animal ascii porn through
>
> ||  Here's some new tricks for you, Master Downloader:
> http://www.bbspot.com/Features/2001/06/cruise_quiz.php
>
> your company e-mail by a bored sysadmin who had nothing better to do than
> to snoop on users. As for the MCSE and CISCO certified part, I cant tell
> if thats your attempt at sarcasm or pride :) Nice job on using
> multi-pathing in a completly different context though... glad to know that
> someone is still thinks themselves 31337.
>
> TH4NX,
> j0n
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > Dear Jon,
> >
> > I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput,
> > but right now...I am having trouble...
> > ...getting this darn application...
> > ...to worksheesh!  Good thing
> > I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too!  :-D
> >
> > Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel
> > SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download
> > the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the
> > Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! 
> > Wh-!
> >
> > I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel!   Didn't you?
> >
> > Yours in WareZ, Dude,
> >
> > etc.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM
> > To: Mohan, Ross
> > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
> > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
> > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > jon
> >
> >
> > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> into
> > it in the first place."
> >
> > -- Douglas Adams
> >
> > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> > how it's done."
> >
> > -- Scott Adams
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> >
> > > :)
> > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > > system worldview.
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > > To: Mohan, Ross
> > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> > >
> > >
> > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less
> a
> > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on
> top
> > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT,
> so
> > > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying t

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Sherman, Edward]

It isn't monochrome anymore... Really! :-)

http://www.themes.org/php/pic.phtml?src=shots/990462645.jpg


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Oooh...wow!  Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe
dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also
just a big fat waste of time.  Then everyone can get rid of their computers
that have windows and Unix can take over the world.  Yeah...archaic coding
at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright
KK
:)


* * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * 
The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated
by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. 
-- 
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-- 
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Jon Allen]

I see you've picked up some buzzwords like "PNG", "GPS", "nanokernel", and
no doubt "warez" where you got caught trading animal ascii porn through
your company e-mail by a bored sysadmin who had nothing better to do than
to snoop on users. As for the MCSE and CISCO certified part, I cant tell
if thats your attempt at sarcasm or pride :) Nice job on using
multi-pathing in a completly different context though... glad to know that
someone is still thinks themselves 31337.

TH4NX,
j0n


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all 
customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he 
who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's 
done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:

> Dear Jon,
>
> I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput,
> but right now...I am having trouble...
> ...getting this darn application...
> ...to worksheesh!  Good thing
> I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too!  :-D
>
> Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel
> SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download
> the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the
> Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! 
> Wh-!
>
> I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel!   Didn't you?
>
> Yours in WareZ, Dude,
>
> etc.
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM
> To: Mohan, Ross
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
> Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
> w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > :)
> > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > system worldview.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > To: Mohan, Ross
> > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> >
> >
> > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a
> > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top
> > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so
> > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux
> > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there
> > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more
> > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the
> > future.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > jon
> >
> >
> > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> into
> > it in the first place."
> >
> > -- Douglas Adams
> >
> > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> > how it's done."
> >
> > -- Scott Adams
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> >
> > > Here's my Unix box:
> > >
> > > # uptime
> > >  12:09 pm  up 32,245 days,  1:01,  14543 users,  load average: 120.19,
> > >

RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Henry Poras]

Yeah. Check out
http://www.ucomics.com/tomthedancingbug/viewtd.cfm?uc_fn=1&uc_full_date=2001
0609&uc_daction=P&uc_comic=td
I think there is room to add a pony-tailed Hannibal.

Henry

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc. 

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience, 
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round 
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds 
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without 
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need 
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs. 

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever 
I want it, nonstop, since 1987. 

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a 
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of 
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book 
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory 
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument 
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it. 

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down, 
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and 
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up. 

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database 
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.) 
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to 
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to 
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per 
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on 
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.  

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure? 
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In
th

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Mohan, Ross]

Thanks for the kudos, Jon. 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:34 PM
To: Mohan, Ross
Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I see you've picked up some buzzwords like "PNG", "GPS", "nanokernel", and
no doubt "warez" where you got caught trading animal ascii porn through

||  Here's some new tricks for you, Master Downloader:
http://www.bbspot.com/Features/2001/06/cruise_quiz.php

your company e-mail by a bored sysadmin who had nothing better to do than
to snoop on users. As for the MCSE and CISCO certified part, I cant tell
if thats your attempt at sarcasm or pride :) Nice job on using
multi-pathing in a completly different context though... glad to know that
someone is still thinks themselves 31337.

TH4NX,
j0n


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
how it's done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:

> Dear Jon,
>
> I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput,
> but right now...I am having trouble...
> ...getting this darn application...
> ...to worksheesh!  Good thing
> I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too!  :-D
>
> Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel
> SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download
> the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the
> Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! 
> Wh-!
>
> I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel!   Didn't you?
>
> Yours in WareZ, Dude,
>
> etc.
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM
> To: Mohan, Ross
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
> Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
> w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > :)
> > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > system worldview.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > To: Mohan, Ross
> > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> >
> >
> > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less
a
> > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on
top
> > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT,
so
> > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that
linux
> > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that
there
> > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent
more
> > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in
the
> > future.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > jon
> >
> >
> > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the
> > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> into
> > it in the first place."
> >
> > -- Douglas Adams
> >
> > "If you have trouble sounding con

the "Red Hat Database"

[Jonathan Gennick]

I'm intrigued by the fact that Red Hat plans to derive a new database
from PostgreSQL, name it the "Red Hat Database", and attempt to
compete in the database marketplace. Just a couple years ago, Red Hat
and Oracle seemed to be fairly tight. What happened to break them up?

Red Hat has some good name recognition, and PostgreSQL is well
respected. Should Oracle worry? Does Red Hat have a good chance at
garnering some marketshare at the low end?

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick   
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * 906.387.1698
http://Gennick.com * http://MichiganWaterfalls.com * http://MetalDrums.org


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jonathan Gennick
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Number of returned row(s) is greater than 0 while number of l

[Khedr, Waleed]

What is  
itrprof?

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
read 


Hello, 

When "Number of returned row(s) is greater than 0 while number of logical
read is 0", itrprof
  prompts error. 


Some of itrprof users encounter this error. here is a line from raw file: 


FETCH #3:c=1,e=0,p=0,cr=0,cu=0,mis=0,r=10,dep=0,og=3,tim=443263450 


As you see, number of logical reads are 0, but number of returned rows are
10. 


how is that possible ? I guess this is bug. have you encountered some
problem. have you ever seen same problem in tkprof output ? 


thanks in advance... 

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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Streeter, Lerone A LBX]

(sarcasm noted)

but my question to those reporting high uptime measurements is:

that measure isn't a measurement of database availability or application
uptime...  is it?  so what, you've got a machine that's been up 32,000 days.
what does it do?  that would be my first question.  which isn't really
relevant to this post.

i'm no unix guru but i do have experience with a variety of systems and i
agree with some of your sentiments, imo it all boils down to the quality of
your people and design/planning.  if you have qualified, caring, and
pro-active people who take the time to research, plan, implement and support
systems the right way; you'll limit issues and problems, but there's no way
you can plan for everything.

in a perfect world... never mind.

i understand that unix is a more developed platform than NT and i'm
indifferent on which is better, but i don't think you should blast NT
because the wealth of your knowledge is on *Nix.  the original post asked
for 24 x 7 on NT?

as i said before, if you build from the ground up taking into consideration
your environment you can supply the high-availability you require.  it's
more than hardware, operating systems, and people...

that's just my take on it.  i'm nobody,  i'm still struggling with
understanding some of the basic components of an oracle database but that's
my story and i'm sticking to it.



===
Lerone Streeter
System Analyst
Abbott LBG
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Here's my Unix box:

# uptime
 12:09 pm  up 32,245 days,  1:01,  14543 users,  load average: 120.19,
430.48, 3450.70

Here's my NT box:

# uptime
 12:09 pm  up 1 days,  1:01,  1 users,  load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070


So, obviously, NT sucks. . 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape
changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the
machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this year.
Only 120 days till victory!

# uptime
 12:09 pm  up 245 days,  1:01,  4 users,  load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70

 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
->
->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
->Er.what I mean to say is..
->
->
->
->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way
->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the
->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up
->4 or 5 nines, easy.
->
->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down
->about FIVE MINUTES a year.
->
->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list
->have done that this year?  I bet less than
->one percent.

well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've
got 40 of them right here.  i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that
much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-)  yup, i know i've
been lucky.

--
Bill "Shrek" Thater   Certifiable ORACLE DBA
Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.
~~
Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts.  -
Kulawiec

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* * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * 
The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated
by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. 
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Intelligent Agent Upgrade

[Guggenmos, Jeff]

What is the best way to upgrade the intelligent agent on a system w/o
actually upgrading the Oracle server version? I need more information other
than what I read on metalink (a procedure)

I have an Oracle server version 8.0.5 and want to run/upgrade the
intelligent agent to 8.1.7

I have already done the following as specified on metalink (Note:112853.1):

Starting from Oracle 8.1.5, the new Universal Installer is used to install
the Oracle software. To install the Intelligent Agent using the Universal
Installer, perform the following steps: 
1) In the File Location window, specify a new $ORACLE_HOME name and a new
physical location. 
2) Do a 'Custom Install'.
3) In the product list, select the following products: - Net8 Products 8.1.6
-- Net8 Client -- Net8 Server - Oracle Enterprise Manager Products 8.1.6 --
Oracle Intelligent Agent Unselect all other products.
4) Finish the installation and perform the OS specific post-install tasks.
(like running root.sh on UNIX) 


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RE: OT RE: The TNS listener dream

[Mohan, Ross]

You pegged it, Chuck. I am usually decaffed, and doubled up today!

Geez..

Time to slip into something more comfortable and pop a bottle of Chianti.



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross,

Please step away from the caffeine :) My, you have been hyper today!

Chuck Speaks, MCSE
Database Administrator
Lithonia Lighting
770-922-9000  x3450
http://www.lithonia.com


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


You really should download MLK's speech and modify "all the little
background processes and foreground processes, playing together..."

You might start a trend. We could get someone to tweak up the 
Lord's Prayer ("Yea, though I walk through a thicket of inverted B-trees, 
I am not afraid")  and then we could issue little certifications
with gold-rimmed paper for anyone who wanted to prove he/she
had understood the joke. 

Such certifications would then be useful during job interviews
when a candidate's sense of humor can be difficult to measure
without whoopee cushions. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


One day, in the far, far future, Oracle products will all be using the same
tnsnames.ora and listener.ora files.

They will reside in the default_home, and all the Oracle products will
respect each other and not try to create listener processes that try to
listen on the same ports...


Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

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RE: OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK is Clumsy

[TCarlson]

Completely depends on the school and teacher/master. Most places, laughter
is acceptable, unless you are training with people who take it very
seriously. On the other hand, continual laughter might be distracting. If
they have a problem with it, find another school. After all, you are paying
them and it should be fun. (unless you are training to be an assassin
because they have to be mean).

Todd Carlson
Oracle 8i Certified DBA
Bunge North America


   

   

   "Koivu, Lisa" To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L  


field.com>   cc:   

   Sent by:  Subject: RE: OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE 
VALUE CHECK is 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Clumsy

   

   

   06/26/2001  

04:47 PM   

   Please respond  

to ORACLE-L

   

   





I may be powerful and look mean (so I've been told) in a kickboxing class
but in ninjutsu class I can't even fall/roll without hurting myself.  I did
it last week and made a big THWACK on the mat as someone was
pseudo-throwing me...  I laughed out loud, the teacher laughed and asked if
I was OK... I am a goddess in kickboxing.  I am a cackling lame idiot in
martial arts!


There.  I said it.  And yes I am starting at the bottom here.  Why not?
I'll be at the top once they give me a unix based database to
support/tune/use for mentoring the jr. dba and some code to write.


For those of you who study martial arts... no one at the dojo has really
told me what you are suppossed to do/not do to show respect for the
teachers, etc.  I have a VERY loud laugh and find some of the things I try
to do in class very funny, because I can't do them very well.  Is it
disrespectful to laugh out loud in class??


C.N.


 -Original Message-
 From:   Ron Rogers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent:   Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:41 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK


 Lisa,
 Whats with the Clumsy Ninja-ette??? I thought that you were the
 resident slayer of all bad and evil. Now you are saying that you are
 not light on your feet any more?


  Have you found you place on the totem pole of work at the new job and
 starting from the bottom again?
 ROR mô¿ôm





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RE: OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK is Clumsy

[Mohan, Ross]

Title: RE: OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK is Clumsy



For those of you who 
study martial arts... no one at the dojo has really told me what you are 
suppossed to do/not do to show respect for the teachers, etc.  I have a 
VERY loud laugh and find some of the things I try to do in class very funny, 
because I can't do them very well.  Is it disrespectful to laugh out loud 
in class??  
[Mohan, Ross]  Depends on the 
instructor...classvibe.  For something like that, i usually "follow 
suit" rather than try to train my fellow classmates to see the same level and type of 
humor that I do.  I find I can often do with *more* reverence, respect, and 
listening and *less* cynicism, competitiveness, and talking in my behavior, so I 
usually shut my mouth, open my eyes and ears, and try to not get in anyone 
else's way. At least in martial arts 
class.

  
-Original Message- From:   Ron 
Rogers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent:   Tuesday, June 
26, 2001 4:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:    OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK 
Lisa, Whats 
with the Clumsy Ninja-ette??? I thought that you were the resident slayer of 
all bad and evil. Now you are saying that you are not light on your feet any 
more? 
 Have you found you place on the totem pole 
of work at the new job and starting from the bottom again? ROR mô¿ôm 
-- Please see 
the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron 
Rogers   INET: 
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subscribing). 

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

Oooh...wow!  Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder pipe
dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is also
just a big fat waste of time.  Then everyone can get rid of their computers
that have windows and Unix can take over the world.  Yeah...archaic coding
at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright
KK
:)
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
how it's done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:

> :)
> You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> system worldview.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> To: Mohan, Ross
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>
>
> why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a
> proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top
> of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so
> all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux
> hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there
> arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more
> reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the
> future.
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > Here's my Unix box:
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 32,245 days,  1:01,  14543 users,  load average: 120.19,
> > 430.48, 3450.70
> >
> > Here's my NT box:
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 1 days,  1:01,  1 users,  load average: 0.019, 0.008,
> 0.00070
> >
> >
> > So, obviously, NT sucks. .
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape
> > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut
the
> > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this
> year.
> > Only 120 days till victory!
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 245 days,  1:01,  4 users,  load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
> >
> > ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
> > ->
> > ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
> > ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
> > ->Er.what I mean to say is..
> > ->
> > ->
> > ->
> > ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way
> > ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the
> > ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will

Oracle Table Record Lock

[Kevin Lange]

Hey Gang;
  Does anyone know of a way to find exactly which rowid is locked in a table
??   I have a developer who has a requirement to report exactly which record
is being held locked by the application.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin
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RE: Another NT question

[Mohan, Ross]

Does it matter NT/Alpha or NT/Intel?

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Anybody currently have more than 500 concurrent users on an NT box?
Just trying to validate a compaq claim that they can handle a large system.

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RE: Another NT question

[Kevin Lange]

When I last left my other job they were running between 800 and 900  users
against the database.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Anybody currently have more than 500 concurrent users on an NT box?
Just trying to validate a compaq claim that they can handle a large system.

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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

The best part about this post is, is that when the original thread was
posted I KNEW it would turn into this:)
hehehheh
KK

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


My life would be hanging by a pregnant chad.

That would be hard to explain to my Mum.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


GOOD LORD ROSS!!!  I second it.
KK

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc.

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience,
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs.

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever
I want it, nonstop, since 1987.

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it.

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down,
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up.

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.)
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure,

RE: OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK is Clumsy

[Koivu, Lisa]

Title: RE: OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK is Clumsy





I may be powerful and look mean (so I've been told) in a kickboxing class but in ninjutsu class I can't even fall/roll without hurting myself.  I did it last week and made a big THWACK on the mat as someone was pseudo-throwing me...  I laughed out loud, the teacher laughed and asked if I was OK... I am a goddess in kickboxing.  I am a cackling lame idiot in martial arts!

There.  I said it.  And yes I am starting at the bottom here.  Why not?  I'll be at the top once they give me a unix based database to support/tune/use for mentoring the jr. dba and some code to write.  

For those of you who study martial arts... no one at the dojo has really told me what you are suppossed to do/not do to show respect for the teachers, etc.  I have a VERY loud laugh and find some of the things I try to do in class very funny, because I can't do them very well.  Is it disrespectful to laugh out loud in class??  

C.N.


-Original Message-
From:   Ron Rogers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK


Lisa,
Whats with the Clumsy Ninja-ette??? I thought that you were the resident slayer of all bad and evil. Now you are saying that you are not light on your feet any more? 

 Have you found you place on the totem pole of work at the new job and starting from the bottom again?
ROR mô¿ôm



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RE: OT RE: The TNS listener dream

[Speaks, Chuck W.]

Ross,

Please step away from the caffeine :) My, you have been hyper today!

Chuck Speaks, MCSE
Database Administrator
Lithonia Lighting
770-922-9000  x3450
http://www.lithonia.com


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


You really should download MLK's speech and modify "all the little
background processes and foreground processes, playing together..."

You might start a trend. We could get someone to tweak up the 
Lord's Prayer ("Yea, though I walk through a thicket of inverted B-trees, 
I am not afraid")  and then we could issue little certifications
with gold-rimmed paper for anyone who wanted to prove he/she
had understood the joke. 

Such certifications would then be useful during job interviews
when a candidate's sense of humor can be difficult to measure
without whoopee cushions. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


One day, in the far, far future, Oracle products will all be using the same
tnsnames.ora and listener.ora files.

They will reside in the default_home, and all the Oracle products will
respect each other and not try to create listener processes that try to
listen on the same ports...


Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

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Re: OT RE: The TNS listener dream

[Thater, William]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

->You really should download MLK's speech and modify "all the little
->background processes and foreground processes, playing together..."
->
->You might start a trend. We could get someone to tweak up the
->Lord's Prayer ("Yea, though I walk through a thicket of inverted B-trees,
->I am not afraid")  and then we could issue little certifications

u... ross, that's the 23rd psalm.;-)  i subscribe to the other alternate version 
of said psalm.;-)

--
Bill "Shrek" Thater   Certifiable ORACLE DBA
Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.
~~
There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe 
this to be a coincidence.   - Jeremy S. Anderson

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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Mohan, Ross]

Dear Jon, 

I'll get back to you when my priorities become io throughput, 
but right now...I am having trouble...
...getting this darn application...
...to worksheesh!  Good thing
I am an MCSE and CISCO Certified, too!  :-D

Right now, though, I have to get back to running my nanokernel
SuSE on my IBM Linux WristWatch with realtime extensions to download
the Ricochet out-of-band GPS codes to help decode the PNG data in the
Secret Slurpee Web Site. Talk about multi-pathing! 
Wh-!

I always liked SuSE's little nanokernel!   Didn't you?

Yours in WareZ, Dude, 

etc.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:14 PM
To: Mohan, Ross
Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
how it's done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:

> :)
> You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> system worldview.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> To: Mohan, Ross
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>
>
> why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a
> proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top
> of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so
> all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux
> hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there
> arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more
> reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the
> future.
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > Here's my Unix box:
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 32,245 days,  1:01,  14543 users,  load average: 120.19,
> > 430.48, 3450.70
> >
> > Here's my NT box:
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 1 days,  1:01,  1 users,  load average: 0.019, 0.008,
> 0.00070
> >
> >
> > So, obviously, NT sucks. .
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape
> > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut
the
> > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this
> year.
> > Only 120 days till victory!
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 245 days,  1:01,  4 users,  load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
> >
> > ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
> > ->
> > ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
> > ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
> > ->Er.what I mean to say is..
> > -

Re: set autotrace error ??

[Mustafa]

First, run $ORACLE_HOME/sqlplus/admin/plustrce.sql as internal to create the
PLUSTRACE role.  Then grant PLUSTRACE to the users (or to public if for
everyone) who want to use autotrace.

You also need to also make sure to run $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin/utlxplan.sql
to set up the plan table in each schema that will be using autotrace, as
said by Ron previously.

Defry

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:26 PM


Have you created the Explain Plan table correctly? The table creation script
is located in $ORACLE_HOME/rdbmsxxx/admin/utlxplan.sql
ROR mª¿ªm
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/01 10:30AM >>>
We have ORACLE 8.1.6.1 database and I login as DBA and tried to turn on
autotrace.  I got
following error messages:

SQL> set autot on
ERROR:
ORA-00904: invalid column name


SP2-0611: Error enabling EXPLAIN report



Any ideal?

Thanks
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Another NT question

[Shaw, John B]

Anybody currently have more than 500 concurrent users on an NT box?
Just trying to validate a compaq claim that they can handle a large system.

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Number of returned row(s) is greater than 0 while number of logical read

[Danisment Gazi Unal (Unal Bilisim)]

Hello,
When "Number of returned row(s) is greater than 0 while number of logical
read is 0", itrprof
prompts error.
Some of itrprof users encounter this error. here is a line from raw
file:
FETCH #3:c=1,e=0,p=0,cr=0,cu=0,mis=0,r=10,dep=0,og=3,tim=443263450
As you see, number of logical reads are 0,
but number of returned rows are 10.
how is that possible ? I guess this is bug. have you encountered some
problem. have you ever seen same problem in tkprof output ?
thanks in advance...

OOW -- RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Deshpande, Kirti]

Hi Matt,
  The deadline is June 29, 2001 to get your abstract in. So get busy ;) 
  Check out :
http://www.oracle.com/openworld/us/conference/index.html?content.html
  
  Good Luck,  

- Kirti Deshpande 
  Verizon Information Services
   http://www.superpages.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130) [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:12 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> 
> I missed the call for presentations for OOW! 
> 
> Is it too late? 
> Where do I find it?  (looked at ioug.org, didn't see it) 
> 
>  
> R. Matt Adams  - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Give me an hour alone in  a bank 
> Pay all my tickets, wipe the slate blank 
> Give me a car, fill up the tank 
> Tell me a boat full of lawyers just sank 
>   - Robert Cray 
> 
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RE: Does OEM affect Oracle performance

[Gary Weber]

Yes, reliability has improved greatly - I have not had to rebuild ANY
events/job over the past 12 months. Of course, OEM is not all it can be -
compatibility is limited, and certain functionality does not work as
designed. Do consider the tool if you must manage Apps, iAS, etc

Gary Weber
Senior DBA
Charles Jones, LLC
609-530-1144, ext 5529

-Original Message-
bhatti
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Quick question on this.

When I was using 8.0.5.2.1 (OEM dba and agents), I
would need to rebuild my agents every week or so and
delete all my events and resubmit them back into the
repository.  Is this still the case with later
version, especially 8.1.6 i.e has the reliability
improved?

thanks

mkb

--- Gary Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In short, no. This is assuming you will not use
> production databases for OEM
> repository. Minimal impact in case you do. I setup
> OEM to hold hands for
> about 15 databases, with various events, jobs, etc.
> It's been running ok for
> the past year, with repository approaching 1 GB in
> size. My OEM management
> server is on NT box used for other types of
> monitoring.
>
> Great tool, easy to use, but not as reliable as
> shell scripts...
>
> Gary Weber
> Senior DBA
> Charles Jones, LLC
> 609-530-1144, ext 5529
>
> -Original Message-
> Gurevich
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:16 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We are running Oracle 8.1.6 and are planning to
> install
> OEM. Are there any issues regarding OEM affecting
> oracle negetively (performance or otherwise) that
> the people are aware of?
>
> thanks
>
>
> g
>
> =
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Gene Gurevich
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RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Jon Allen]

No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)

Thanks,
jon


"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all 
customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he 
who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

-- Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's 
done."

-- Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:

> :)
> You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> system worldview.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> To: Mohan, Ross
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>
>
> why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less a
> proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on top
> of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT, so
> all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that linux
> hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that there
> arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent more
> reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in the
> future.
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
>
> > Here's my Unix box:
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 32,245 days,  1:01,  14543 users,  load average: 120.19,
> > 430.48, 3450.70
> >
> > Here's my NT box:
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 1 days,  1:01,  1 users,  load average: 0.019, 0.008,
> 0.00070
> >
> >
> > So, obviously, NT sucks. .
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape
> > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the
> > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this
> year.
> > Only 120 days till victory!
> >
> > # uptime
> >  12:09 pm  up 245 days,  1:01,  4 users,  load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
> >
> > ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
> > ->
> > ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
> > ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
> > ->Er.what I mean to say is..
> > ->
> > ->
> > ->
> > ->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way
> > ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the
> > ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up
> > ->4 or 5 nines, easy.
> > ->
> > ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down
> > ->about FIVE MINUTES a year.
> > ->
> > ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list
> > ->have done that this year?  I bet less than
> > ->one percent.
> >
> > well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've
> > got 40 of them right here.  i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up
> that
> > much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-)  yup, i know
> i've
> > been lucky.
> >
> > --
> > Bill "Shrek" Thater

RE: Does OEM affect Oracle performance

[ARUN K C]

I think It would be better to install 8.1.7 agent,this is really doing a 
fine job.
We have been monitoring our databases.
Some good tools have been provided thro this agent.

>From: mohammed bhatti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Does OEM affect Oracle performance
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:11:08 -0800
>
>Quick question on this.
>
>When I was using 8.0.5.2.1 (OEM dba and agents), I
>would need to rebuild my agents every week or so and
>delete all my events and resubmit them back into the
>repository.  Is this still the case with later
>version, especially 8.1.6 i.e has the reliability
>improved?
>
>thanks
>
>mkb
>
>--- Gary Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In short, no. This is assuming you will not use
> > production databases for OEM
> > repository. Minimal impact in case you do. I setup
> > OEM to hold hands for
> > about 15 databases, with various events, jobs, etc.
> > It's been running ok for
> > the past year, with repository approaching 1 GB in
> > size. My OEM management
> > server is on NT box used for other types of
> > monitoring.
> >
> > Great tool, easy to use, but not as reliable as
> > shell scripts...
> >
> > Gary Weber
> > Senior DBA
> > Charles Jones, LLC
> > 609-530-1144, ext 5529
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Gurevich
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:16 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We are running Oracle 8.1.6 and are planning to
> > install
> > OEM. Are there any issues regarding OEM affecting
> > oracle negetively (performance or otherwise) that
> > the people are aware of?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > g
> >
> > =
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
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> >
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RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Mohan, Ross]

My life would be hanging by a pregnant chad. 

That would be hard to explain to my Mum. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


GOOD LORD ROSS!!!  I second it.
KK

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc.

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience,
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs.

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever
I want it, nonstop, since 1987.

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it.

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down,
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up.

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.)
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure?
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on 

RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Deshpande, Kirti]

Too late!! 
Gaja stole it and wrote a book about it !! 

- Kirti 

> -Original Message-
> From: Rao, Maheswara [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:47 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> 
> Rachel,
> 
> I am interested in reading your paper - Exploding the Myths.  How do I get
> access to this paper?  Is it available on any website?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rao
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:57 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Jeremiah,
> 
> Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what you 
> are doing..
> 
> "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> 
> and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but
> really 
> close.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our 
> papers :)
> 
> Rachel
> 
> --
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OT RE: The TNS listener dream

[Mohan, Ross]

You really should download MLK's speech and modify "all the little
background processes and foreground processes, playing together..."

You might start a trend. We could get someone to tweak up the 
Lord's Prayer ("Yea, though I walk through a thicket of inverted B-trees, 
I am not afraid")  and then we could issue little certifications
with gold-rimmed paper for anyone who wanted to prove he/she
had understood the joke. 

Such certifications would then be useful during job interviews
when a candidate's sense of humor can be difficult to measure
without whoopee cushions. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


One day, in the far, far future, Oracle products will all be using the same
tnsnames.ora and listener.ora files.

They will reside in the default_home, and all the Oracle products will
respect each other and not try to create listener processes that try to
listen on the same ports...


Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

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NT Script ?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

Hi all,
Was wondering if anyone of the brains out there would know how to add the
hour and minute to this beautiful little script that Tom Mercadante provided
me with?  Not that Tom couldn't do it himself, he just didn't, I didn't ask
for it the first time that I requested such a script.
Thanks again Tom, this will help me out beautifully:)

rem 
rem echo off
IF NOT '%1'=='' GOTO SetEnvVars
for /F "delims=/ tokens=1-4" %%i in ('date /t') do today.BAT %%i %%j %%k
%%l
GOTO Done
:SetEnvVars
:: set DayOfWeek=%1
set Month=%2
set Day=%3
set Year=%4
:Done
rem 


Sincerely,
Kevin Kostyszyn
DBA
Dulcian, Inc
www.dulcian.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: OT RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Mohan, Ross]

I guess I shudda thrown a smiley in there. yikes...

Anyway, I hope i am not in the minority when i say
that i think hit ratios *are* important, even
in tuning. I just don't think they are the sine
qua non of tuning.



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Gaja makes very good points about the importance of hit ratios but I don't
think we should go 180 degrees the other way and abandon them all together.
They certainly tell us something.  They just shouldn't necessarily be a
tuning goal.  However, most of us are only seeing the hit ratio as of
database startup. This is somewhat meaningless.  If you are aware of your
hit ratios as they look throughout the average day they become more
meaningful when something is awry. I think the real misconception is "bad
hit ratio = more memory" or "bad hit ratio = bad dba".  This is what we need
to clear up and bring some commen sense to. - Ethan

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Yea, "hit ratios" are never important. 

Ever. 

For anything. 




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OT.OT.OTRE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK

[Ron Rogers]

Lisa,
Whats with the Clumsy Ninja-ette??? I thought that you were the resident slayer of all 
bad and evil. Now you are saying that you are not light on your feet any more? 
 Have you found you place on the totem pole of work at the new job and starting from 
the bottom again?
ROR mô¿ôm


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RE: Does OEM affect Oracle performance

[mohammed bhatti]

Quick question on this.

When I was using 8.0.5.2.1 (OEM dba and agents), I
would need to rebuild my agents every week or so and
delete all my events and resubmit them back into the
repository.  Is this still the case with later
version, especially 8.1.6 i.e has the reliability
improved?

thanks

mkb

--- Gary Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In short, no. This is assuming you will not use
> production databases for OEM
> repository. Minimal impact in case you do. I setup
> OEM to hold hands for
> about 15 databases, with various events, jobs, etc.
> It's been running ok for
> the past year, with repository approaching 1 GB in
> size. My OEM management
> server is on NT box used for other types of
> monitoring.
> 
> Great tool, easy to use, but not as reliable as
> shell scripts...
> 
> Gary Weber
> Senior DBA
> Charles Jones, LLC
> 609-530-1144, ext 5529
> 
> -Original Message-
> Gurevich
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:16 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We are running Oracle 8.1.6 and are planning to
> install
> OEM. Are there any issues regarding OEM affecting
> oracle negetively (performance or otherwise) that
> the people are aware of?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> g
> 
> =
> 
> 
> __
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Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[kjanusz]

Where can I get the "exploding the myths" paper?

Thanks,
Ken Janusz, CPIM
> Jeremiah,
> 
> Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what you 
> are doing..
> 
> "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> 
> and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but really 
> close.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our 
> papers :)
> 
> Rachel
> 
> >From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
> >
> >All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by newbies 
> >and
> >oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and paper 
> >on a
> >whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot backup. 
> >  I
> >want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites (pet
> >peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for any 
> >ideas I
> >glean.
> >
> >So far my favorite misconceptions are:
> >
> >* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> >* All network communication is done through the listener
> >* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> >* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> >* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> >* Export is a good way to back up your database
> >* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown 
> >immediate'
> >* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> >* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback seg)
> >* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> >* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> >* Lots of extents are bad
> >* Databases can't be renamed
> >* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> >* Listeners have to be started before the instance
> >* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> >* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> >* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> >* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> >* redolog size change requires outage
> >
> >What's *your* pet misconception?
> >
> >--
> >Jeremiah Wilton
> >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> >
> >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
> >
> > > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim 
> >carrey-MASK style)
> > > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this enlighten me
> >
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Jeremiah Wilton
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Stephane Faroult]

"Jesse, Rich" wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeremiah,
> 
> First, I believe it's a misconception that on a Unix system there can be no
> data lost in an Oracle DB from a system crash.  This HAS to be a function of
> "syncer", doesn't it?  And, therefore, until syncer decides any buffer
> writes actually go to disk, transactions can be toast.  Granted, this is a
> very short time, but the possibility would still exist for a standalone
> Oracle DB, especially for one with a high transaction count.  But I haven't
> seen any "official" info, whether true or false, from Oracle about this.
> Comments, anyone???
> 
> Second, I hope you're going to have explanations and/or qualifications (even
> brief ones!) about the misconceptions somewhere on your website?  There's a
> few in your list that have me intrigued!
> 
> Thanks!
> Rich Jesse  System/Database Administrator
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA
> 

I got my information 15 years ago, but ...
In fact, Oracle used to claim that they were using some undocumented
Unix system calls (fflush() would have looked fine to me, but it musn't
be subtle enough) to force Unix to sync and to return 'Committed' when
your transaction is actually written to disk (I'd like to precise to the
redo log files but they weren't any then). I have indeed met some
systems where the said calls had probably not been implemented  (or the
Oracle charm offensive had not be enough to have it disclosed) and it
was specifically specified in the installation guide that you HAD to use
raw devices if you wanted to be certain not to lose a transaction.
In fact 'lost transaction' doesn't mean that you do not lose any update,
it just means that once you have got the acknowledgment from Oracle that
it has been validated your change is safe.

Concerning misconceptions, I find the topic interesting but tricky.
There are some obvious misconceptions. There are also misconceptions
today which were the plain truth some releases ago (some versions ago
sometimes) - and may no longer be misconceptions in the future, so they
have to be stamped with a version number. Oracle themselves have
originated a number of misconceptions (eg, version 6.0 'automatically
increasing extent size by a factor of 1.5 will solve fragmentation
problems' - for a while, even rollback segments were submitted to the
PCTINCREASE rule, totally insane as they soon noticed). Some good ideas
never take off, or are dumped. Curious to find out how many of Oracle9i
fancy features will prove, in the long term, to have been
misconceptions. I guess I am growing more and more sceptical.

My 0.02 cents.

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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Jeremiah Wilton]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jesse, Rich wrote:

> First, I believe it's a misconception that on a Unix system there can be no
> data lost in an Oracle DB from a system crash.  This HAS to be a function of
> "syncer", doesn't it?  And, therefore, until syncer decides any buffer
> writes actually go to disk, transactions can be toast.  Granted, this is a
> very short time, but the possibility would still exist for a standalone
> Oracle DB, especially for one with a high transaction count.  But I haven't
> seen any "official" info, whether true or false, from Oracle about this.

The question of whether a write results in data being written directly to
disk or only to the UBC depends on the "oflag" that is used when a process
open a file with the open() call.

Oracle's log writer (I believe) opens the online redologs with the O_DSYNC
flag.  That means that a given write() call will not return successfully
(and thus a commit will not return as complete) until that data has been
written down to disk.  Syncer is only responsible for the data's write out
to disk if a flag like O_RDWR was used to open the file.

Your concern may apply to a disk subsystem and controller that have their
own cache.  In the case of these systems, they return success to the
operating system as soon as a write has been successfully added to the
controller's cache.  Such controllers have battery backups, so that in case
power is lost to the unit, pending writes in the cache can complete before
the unit powers off.  That battery backup on caching disk controllers is
pretty key to running Oracle successfully.

This is just the kind of caveat that I think would be good to include in a
presentation on misconceptions.

> Second, I hope you're going to have explanations and/or qualifications (even
> brief ones!) about the misconceptions somewhere on your website?  There's a
> few in your list that have me intrigued!

Of course I plan to explain them, but tell me what intrigues you.  I'd love
to hash the issues out here before I make a fool of myself in SF in
December.

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

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RE: OT RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Post, Ethan]

Gaja makes very good points about the importance of hit ratios but I don't
think we should go 180 degrees the other way and abandon them all together.
They certainly tell us something.  They just shouldn't necessarily be a
tuning goal.  However, most of us are only seeing the hit ratio as of
database startup. This is somewhat meaningless.  If you are aware of your
hit ratios as they look throughout the average day they become more
meaningful when something is awry. I think the real misconception is "bad
hit ratio = more memory" or "bad hit ratio = bad dba".  This is what we need
to clear up and bring some commen sense to. - Ethan

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Yea, "hit ratios" are never important. 

Ever. 

For anything. 



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Re: set autotrace error ??

[Ron Rogers]

Have you created the Explain Plan table correctly? The table creation script is 
located in $ORACLE_HOME/rdbmsxxx/admin/utlxplan.sql
ROR mª¿ªm
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/01 10:30AM >>>
We have ORACLE 8.1.6.1 database and I login as DBA and tried to turn on 
autotrace.  I got
following error messages:

SQL> set autot on
ERROR:
ORA-00904: invalid column name


SP2-0611: Error enabling EXPLAIN report



Any ideal?

Thanks
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RE: RE: RE: RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

GOOD LORD ROSS!!!  I second it.
KK

-Original Message-
Spence
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ross Mohan for president!

"Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if
both are frozen."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am hearing such amazing stories"running for seven years"
"no failures in 4 years"."never any failures except when
the NT administrator brought down the power grid", etc.

I am not an old hand, nor am I a greenhorn, but in my experience,
"real, live production systems" ( e.g. more than 100 users, round
the clock availability, frequent software updates...hardware adds
to account for growth, etc. ) just don't run for four years without
any downtime.  I have never seen this. New systems have bugs shaken
outold systems have legacy MTBF hiccupsall systems need
occasional hw/sw tweaks to accomodate unplanned business needs.

Now, if you factor OUT *scheduled* maintenance, then, hell, ANY
system can stay up for months...years...decades.  And, guess what?
If you're NOT upgrading application or system software, or patching
firmware or doing OS upgrades, it's not what I'd call a live
production system. Hell, my HP calculator has been running whenever
I want it, nonstop, since 1987.

As for running Nuclear stuff, I would NEVER run Oracle or Unix or NT
for ANYTHING to do with Nuclear stuff ( missiles or power ). Oh My God.
Please don't tell me any more about that. Even Oracle Corp says "don't
use our stuff in places where people's lives are directly at stake."

(But that's just me.)

Lastly, this business about "being down for one minute costs us 12 Million
dollars" is bohunk is most every case. There just isn't the data to support
that. Yea, sure, maybe the a site's average intake is 12 Million during a
typical one hour outage (that one site out of a million) but how many of
those spurned customers come back?  Most of them! Me, I can't get my book
at Amazon, I just do something else and come back. ditto for my memory
upgrade at Micron, or my tech info at Metalink. This "lost business"
argument
is weak or NONEXISTENT in EVERY instantiation I have seen of it.

Also, a site being down can be anything...network...front line web
servers...'
back end databasesintermediate LDAP serversand the user ( that's you
and I ) have NO WAY OF KNOWING for sure what failed. Ok...Ebay went down,
repeatedly. They have IIS front end servers (which have not failed) and
backend oracle databases on Sun E10K (which did). NASDAQ's reconciliation
system just went down a few weeks ago ( Unix ) But that is a case where
I have a mix of good press and backend information. As you note, most
sites won't fess up.

I happen to work for a government client where we have aging Unix database
servers of about five or six different flavors ( Siemens, DEC, Sun, Sequent,
etc.)
that are pushed to their limits, feebly configured, and poorly maintained
(due to
damagement "downtime" procedures) but very tightly maintained NT servers
(due to
my company's downtime procedures ) and know what?   My desktop has gone down
ONCE
in two years. The mail servers for a 1000 user exchange system with 50
Mbytes per
user mailboxes has NEVER gone down in two years.  The unix boxes have
hiccuped on
disk...on memory...on oracle bugs.

It's just too easy ( and too wrong ) to say "NT Sucks" or "Solaris Rules"
or somesuch. (Not that you are, butsadly, many do)

Bottomline, I agree with you: If Management REALLY wants "24x7", then I just
smile, and explain the costs to them. Before you know it, there are
scheduled
hardware maintenance windows, oracle tuning/patching downtime, etc.

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:58 AM
To: Mohan; Ross; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, I guess so if that was the only occurrence.  I'll never know and I
doubt
that they will fess-up.

At any rate, If one wants to use NT or any other OS for that matter in a
24x7
guaranteed manner then one should look into making as much as possible
redundant.  Back in my Blue Suit days we did a lot of cause and effect
analysis,
particularly on Nuclear stuff, to insure that if one component failed there
was
a redundant part to take over the tasks of the failed unit.  We also did
analysis to determine what the likelihood of the failure was and what the
cost/benefit of having the redundant part was.  Basically, if you can expect
say
1 failure every 8544 hours and it will take less than 1 hour to correct the
failure, is it worth the expense to have redundant hardware for that
failure?
It's one of those things that needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.
In
the case of NT, you'd need a separate server and be running OPS.  What is
the
cost, what is the expected frequency, and is the loss >= the cost??

Good questions, but only 

Re: Script to find space bound objects

[Mohammad Rafiq]

Jack,
I think following script will do what you want...
Regards
Rafiq



col substr(seg.owner,1,10) heading OWNER
col substr(seg.segment_name,1,30) heading  "SEGMENT NAME"
col substr(seg.segment_type,1,10)  heading "TYPE"
col substr(seg.tablespace_name,1,20)  heading "TS NAME"
prompt ;
prompt *   THIS SHOWS THE DEFICIT OF FREE SPACE   *;
prompt ;


spool /tmp/small;
  select
substr(seg.owner,1,10),substr(seg.segment_name,1,30),substr(seg.segment_type,1,10),substr(seg.tablespace_name,1,20)
  from sys.dba_segments seg,
   sys.dba_clusters c
  where
  seg.segment_type = 'CLUSTER'
  and seg.segment_name = c.cluster_name
  and seg.owner = c.owner
  and NOT EXISTS (select tablespace_name from dba_free_space
free
  where free.tablespace_name = c.tablespace_name
  and free.bytes >=  c.next_extent);
  select
substr(seg.owner,1,10),substr(seg.segment_name,1,30),substr(seg.segment_type,1,10),substr(seg.tablespace_name,1,20)
  from sys.dba_segments seg,
   sys.dba_indexes i
  where
  seg.segment_type = 'INDEX'
  and seg.segment_name = i.index_name
  and seg.owner = i.owner
  and NOT EXISTS (select tablespace_name from dba_free_space
free
  where free.tablespace_name = i.tablespace_name
  and free.bytes >=  i.next_extent);
  select
substr(seg.owner,1,10),substr(seg.segment_name,1,30),substr(seg.segment_type,1,10),substr(seg.tablespace_name,1,20)
  from sys.dba_segments seg,
   sys.dba_tables t
  where
  seg.segment_type = 'TABLE'
  and seg.segment_name = t.table_name
  and seg.owner = t.owner
  and NOT EXISTS (select tablespace_name from dba_free_space
free
  where free.tablespace_name = t.tablespace_name
  and free.bytes >=  t.next_extent);
spool off;





Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 06:30:45 -0800

Hi All,


I thought I had a script to check for space bound objects (can not allocate
next extent for whatever reason) but seem to have misplaced it.

Anybody want to save me the time?

TIA


Jack

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___

RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Toepke, Kevin M]

1) A full table scan is a bad thing
2) the order of things in the FROM/WHERE clause matters (is true in the
RULE-based world)


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:27 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


1) If an index exists, it will always be used.
2) It is ALWAYS a database problem.

Terry

Jeremiah Wilton wrote:

> All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by
newbies and
> oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and
paper on a
> whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot
backup.  I
> want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites (pet
> peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for any
ideas I
> glean.
>
> So far my favorite misconceptions are:
>
> * Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> * All network communication is done through the listener
> * Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> * Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> * Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> * Export is a good way to back up your database
> * Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown
immediate'
> * Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> * ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback
seg)
> * Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> * ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> * Lots of extents are bad
> * Databases can't be renamed
> * Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> * Listeners have to be started before the instance
> * NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> * Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> * checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> * Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> * redolog size change requires outage
>
> What's *your* pet misconception?
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
>
> > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim
carrey-MASK style)
> > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this enlighten me
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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RE: Re[2]: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

As a guy who loves gaming, I feel for you.  I just got the new Nvidia chip
myself, however I couldn't afford the 64 meg version, but man it is sweet.
But do you want to hear the funny thing, I have the VIA chipset and it still
works!!!  Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance RULES on it.
Anyway, sorry about thatthat's why I haven't gone up to Win2k on my
home machine yet, it's just not supported enough.
Sorry everyone:)
Kev

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:56 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



WHATEVER you do - DON'T GO ADDING ANY NEW FUNKY HARDWARE!!!

I just got a brand new ELSA GLADIAC 920 graphics card - built on the new
nvidia Geoforce 3 chipset with 64mb on board DDR SDRAM! (I can hear any
gamers going YU)!!

So - slip it in to my (not a year old - PIII800 256M RAM Win2K) PC and the
damn thing wont work - it switches video modes to go in to a game and turns
the screen in to stand by mode  (NOW THERE'S A BLACK SCREEN FOR YA!!)!! DAMN
THING!! You then have to physically turn the machine off!! Support in their
infinite wisdom told me to upgrade my 4in1 drivers for the chipset(VIA), and
flash the BIOS(AWARD)! Not a very inviting solution - as a BIOS flash, if
gone wrong, will fry your BIOS chip, meaning that you'll need a new
motherboard! They then go on to tell me they won't support this. Call up PC
support - any they won't support it either!

So there I am raring to get my hands on the ultimate PC gamer experience,
and decided to do as they recommend - I updated my VIA 4in1, and flashed the
BIOS - and guess what - the f*$^&r STILL WONT WORK!!! I installed the NVIDIA
driver - nope.. Installed the Win2K SP2 - nope.. try to tweak the settings
for screen res etc. - nope.. Made sure that there were no conflicts with
IRQ's etc. - nope..

And at this very moment - IT STILL WON'T WORK!!

DON'T GO THROUGH THE HASSLE!!!



Totally off-topic I know as you wouldn't dream of playing games on a
database server - but I needed to vent a little there - I've spent hours on
this last night!! And will later I suppose..

Any graphics experts out there? PC support etc.?

Mark (Gonna go and cry now) Leith

-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 03:22
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


HUMM,  Our last unscheduled Unix down was due to the local power utility
whereas
the last unscheduled down on NT was due to the "Blue screen of death" (Ok,
so
the screen is Black on 2000).

trim

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Re[2]: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Tim Gardner]

>BTW: IMHO, don't waste your money on any of the SAMS books.  They are full of
>similar misconceptions.

Are there any you DO recommend?  The only one I have is Kevin Loney's 
Oracle 8 DBA Handbook.

Thanks,
Tim
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Re: Legato NetWorker & RMAN: A troublesome pair?

[Jay Hostetter]

Ed,

  We run RMAN from cron using scripts.  We backup to disk, then we backup the disks to 
tape.  One nice thing about this (if you have the disk space) is that your last backup 
is on-line.  Our Unix sysadmins (along with consultants) have been working for several 
weeks to bring our tape storage system and Networker on-line.  They have had many 
problems, and that is without RMAN in the mix!  For now, we do a simple vdump of the 
backup disks.
  We had some horrible experiences with Networker and EBU several years ago.  We never 
did get the two working together.  Using scripts to backup to disk seems to save us a 
lot of headaches and gray hairs.



Jay Hostetter
Oracle DBA
D. & E. Communications
Ephrata, PA  USA

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/26/01 02:35PM >>>
The subject line may be overstating things a bit, but
I'm pretty frustrated at the moment.  

Backups are working fine when I run them manually
(i.e., from a command line or within the RMAN
utility).   The problem is trying to schedule the
Oracle backups through the NetWorker Administration
GUI.  Scheduled filesystem backups work fine. 

Our attempts to schedule a working backup fail without
generating any useful errors in /nsr/logs/messages or
/nsr/logs/daemon.log. Basically, the logs just say
that  the savegroup failed.  Setting the
NSR_SB_DEBUG_FILE in the nsrnmo script hasn't helped
because nothing is being written to the log file.  

The Legato knowledgebase, if you can call it that, has
been of little use (other than to confirm that the
output we have received isn't specific enough to debug
the problem).  What I've seen on MetaLink leads me to
wonder if people who use the Legato NetWorker/RMAN
actually schedule their backups through the
Administration GUI or fall back to good 'ol reliable
cron jobs.   

So, if you use Legato NetWorker for your Oracle
backups:

Do you schedule them through the Admin GUI or through
cron?

Do you know of anything we should check that may not
have been covered in the NetWorker administration
manual?

If you've had similar problems, I love to hear what
the problem was.

TIA for your help.

Ed

=
Ed Bittel, Oracle DBA
Executive Jet Technology Services


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Design in OLTP database

[Richard Huntley]

> Currently, we have Java based reports running against an OLTP database.
> Connection pooling is being used via JDBC and threads are used to populate
> a data holding table (built on the fly since the reports are custom with
> different sorting options,different sections, etc)which is then used to
> generate reports from the live data (no snapshots being used so that
> reports are generated against old data and that's how we'd like to keep
> it, if possible).  However, during the end of the month, running the batch
> reports against the database slows connection times.  Resource Manager is
> being used to limit the % of CPU the Reporting jobs get, however, the web
> servers sometimes are unable to connect when many reports are being run
> all dumping data into the same table and then grabbing the data to
> generate reports.  Would 8i's new temporary tables feature be more
> efficient or is there overhead with management of those types of objects??
> I'm looking for suggestions from those of you experienced in having batch
> reports run against an OLTP database without bringing it to it's knees
> when a lot of reports are being run.  Any suggestions you could offer
> would be appreciated.  
> 
> TIA,
> Richard Huntley
> 
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RE: Griping about auditing (not the Oracle Kind)

[Kevin Lange]

Rama;
  Well, I also have to say I have worked with some very good and
knowledgeable consultants.   But I have also worked with many more that were
as ou descibe.  Unfortunately, I have also worked with many non-consultants
who could also be described that way.

I don't think its 'consultants' that  are the culprit here.  It more
'people'.  

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:51 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Rama,

I've also worked with some top-notch consultants and contractors.
Unfortunately, I don't always have input into the hiring and purchasing
process.  Sometimes you get blind-sided.  My job is to make whatever comes
in the door work.  It's tough when you're faced with this kind of lunacy
from a vendor.

David A. Barbour
Oracle DBA, OCP
AISD
512-414-1002


 

Rama Malladi

  
com> cc:

Sent by: Subject: Re: Griping about
auditing (not the Oracle Kind)
root@fatcity.

com

 

 

06/25/2001

06:40 PM

Please

respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





David,
"This is about what I've come to expect from consultants/contractors" in
your mail does not speak very well of
you. Most of the Critical projects that I worked on are/were run by top
consultants and good employees.

 So it is too vague and broad to generalize certain job types. If you hired
an incompetent consultant, fault
also lies with you  in not knowing the stuff that you are hiring ...

Just a thought...
Rama


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> One of the ways around this is to have "Executive Delegation" set up
within
> your change management procedures.  Generally this boils down to
> recognizing that there are some areas where your "experts" (generally the
> SA and DBA) have more knowledge and need more flexibility than
developers,
> contractors and the like.
>
> Interestingly enough, I'm proposing a change management procedure for my
> current employer.  This is in response to a contractor who changed the
TEMP
> tablespace on three instances to contents permanent late Thursday night.
> Friday, users started having problems with their reports.  Here was their
> explanation:
>
>  "-- [Contractor] says:  [Application]assumes that there is a
> tablespace called "temp".
>  We create all of our "temporary" tables there, so that it isn't too
>  difficult to clean them out at some point.  This is necessary
because
>  Oracle does not support the "temporary table" concept we use under
>  Informix.
>  -- So instead of creating temp tables, under Oracle we create
> permanent
>  tables in the "temp" tablespace, then remove them when we are done
>  (assuming the program does everything correctly and doesn't crash).
>  -- They need to add a tablespace called "temp", which should be at
> least
>  a few hundred MB (similar to the Informix temp dbspace).
>  -- I think you can't specify TEMPORARY when creating the
>  tablespace, because Oracle won't allow tables to be created in a
>  temporary tablespace.  The size they used may not be large enough;
>  normally we allocate 500 MB or more (it needs to be big enough to
hold
>  the largest "temporary" tables that [Application]would ever create).
> Also, they
>  should make the "next extent size" large than 256k because they
could
>  run out of extents -- probably something in the 1-5 MB range would
be
>  better."
>
> I don't think their company has an Oracle DBA on staff (Yosi - you
> interested?).  Global Temporary tables notwithstanding, this is about
what
> I've come to expect from consultants/contractors.  My change management
> procedure has under it's "Executive Delegation" section, the following
> caveats:
>
> The  Executive can delegate authority to appropriately qualified
people
> (referred  to in this document as the Delegated Authority) to
authorize
> a  change.  The delegation will be documented and will form part of
the
> Managed Product List, and will state as a minimum:
>
> ·specification of the areas covered by the delegation;
> ·the extent of the delegation and any restrictions on the authority;
> ·the period for which the delegation applies;
> ·that the Delegated Authority has had the appropriate education and
> training to carry out the delegated task;
> ·any reporting actions required of the Delegated Authority;
> ·any review period for the delegation.
>
> Documented administrative procedures that have been approved as such
by
> the  Executive can be implemented without individual approvals from
the
> Executive  as  long  as  each  change  is  implemented according to
the
> authorized   procedure.However,   changes   to  the
administrative
>  

RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?

[Koivu, Lisa]

Title: RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions - standby db?





OK.  I admit my knowledge on standby is minimal, having only read up on it, fiddled with it and used the idea sparingly for migrations.  

However, Jeremiah, I'm very curious.  You state that 'Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying' is a misconception. Yes, like many of the things you state below, the documentation does say that - once you open a standby db in r/w mode, it is no longer a valid standby after switching back to the primary.  

Can someone shed some light on why this is not true?  It seemed to make complete sense to me.  I can see how opening a database read only will work and not invalidate the standby, but r/w?  

Thanks
Lisa Koivu
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA


-Original Message-
From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions


Jeremiah,


Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what you 
are doing..


"always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"


and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but really 
close.


It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our 
papers :)


Rachel


>From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
>
>All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by newbies 
>and
>oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and paper 
>on a
>whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot backup. 
>  I
>want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites (pet
>peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for any 
>ideas I
>glean.
>
>So far my favorite misconceptions are:
>
>* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
>* All network communication is done through the listener
>* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
>* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
>* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
>* Export is a good way to back up your database
>* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown 
>immediate'
>* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
>* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback seg)
>* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
>* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
>* Lots of extents are bad
>* Databases can't be renamed
>* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
>* Listeners have to be started before the instance
>* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
>* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
>* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
>* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
>* redolog size change requires outage
>
>What's *your* pet misconception?
>
>--
>Jeremiah Wilton
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
>
> > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim 
>carrey-MASK style)
> > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this enlighten me
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
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>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


-- 
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-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Ora-1654 Unable to extend index on tablespace

[Mohan, Ross]

Title: RE: Ora-1654 Unable to extend index on tablespace



you 
have 4K blocksize. 
 
Check 
your indexes. How often do they extend?  how big are they? the  NEXT 
EXTENT size
may 
not be appropriate. there is no pro forma way of knowing
 
hth
 
Hannibal
 -Original 
Message-From: Mitchell 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:42 
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
Ora-1654 Unable to extend index on tablespace

  Hi DBAs
   
  Whenever I have the ora-1654, I 
  will 
  1. alter index/table name deallocate unused 
  
  2. alter tablespace name coalescs;
  3. run querys to check dba_free_space 
  and dba_data_files
   
  There are total 140 indexes on this tablespace 
  with setting init 1024k and next 1024k.
  I got confused now that for message 'unable to extend by 256'. What is mean for 256 
  here?
  The free space(byte)  must be over 1024k 
  here to avoid ora-1654  for each of 140 index segments?
   
  Thanks in advance.
   
  Mitchell
   
   
   
  
  This the query I run today.  I only take 
  first few lines and last few lines.
   
  compute sum LABEL 'TOTAL of SEGMENTS' of 
  totalofsegments on reportselect tablespace_name, bytes free_space, 
  count(bytes) segcount,    (bytes * 
  count(bytes)) totalofsegments  from dba_free_space  where 
  tablespace_name=UPPER('&1') group by tablespace_name, 
  bytes order by tablespace_name, bytes;
   
  TABLESPACE_NAME  
  FREE_SPACE SEGCOUNT  TOTALOFSEGMENTS-- 
    
  IDX_FINC_C70614   
  4,096    
  1    
  4,096IDX_FINC_C70614  
  24,576    
  6  
  147,456IDX_FINC_C70614  
  28,672    
  1   
  28,672IDX_FINC_C70614 
  364,544    
  1  
  364,544IDX_FINC_C70614 
  368,640    
  2  737,280
  IDX_FINC_C70614   
  1,396,736    
  1    
  1,396,736IDX_FINC_C70614   
  2,801,664    
  1    
  2,801,664 
  TOTAL of 
  SEGMENTS 
  913,092,608
   
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Koivu, Lisa 
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' ; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:08 
AM
Subject: RE: Ora-1654 Unable to extend 
index on tablespace

Mitchell have you tried coalescing 
your tablespace?  How big are your extents? 

  -Original Message- From:   Mitchell [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent:   Monday, June 25, 2001 5:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:    Re:  Ora-1654 Unable to extend index on 
  tablespace 
      Dear DBAs 
      I have a tablespace for 
  index with 5 file with different size from 500mb - 2000 mb.     Total tablespace size is 6g and used 
  5317mb  abote 86.13% usage. 
      I got the error 
  today.     ora-1654 
  unable to extend indx sechma.indexname by 256  in tablespace 
  tablespacename. 
  The following is the query I got for the 
  tablespace . 
  We can see the index takes 92 extents and 
  maxextends setting is 8192. I then set 
  autoextend on a datafile  then error is gone. 
  What is the reason to cause ora-1654 even there 
  are 700mb space avai. I also checked 
  the tablespace and index setting with both have next extend 1024k, 
  maxextend 8092. 
  Mitchll 
  SEGMENT 
  TYP BYTES  NEXT_EXTENT  
  EXTENTS    MAX_EXTENTS --- 
  ---   
   - 8,192 
  C70614.FINC_INFO_ATTRIBUTE_080101_PK    
  IND 94,269,440    
  1,048,576   
  92  8,192 
  C70614.FINC_INFO_ATTRIBUTE_090101_PK    
  IND 52,457,472    
  1,048,576   
  51  8,192 
  
  -- Please 
  see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: 
  Mitchell   INET: 
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  subscri

RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

[Mohan, Ross]

Here's my Unix box:

# uptime
 12:09 pm  up 32,245 days,  1:01,  14543 users,  load average: 120.19,
430.48, 3450.70

Here's my NT box:

# uptime
 12:09 pm  up 1 days,  1:01,  1 users,  load average: 0.019, 0.008, 0.00070


So, obviously, NT sucks. . 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape
changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut the
machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this year.
Only 120 days till victory!

# uptime
 12:09 pm  up 245 days,  1:01,  4 users,  load average: 0.19, 0.48, 0.70

 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
->
->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
->Er.what I mean to say is..
->
->
->
->but, in all seriousnesswhen there is a way
->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the
->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up
->4 or 5 nines, easy.
->
->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down
->about FIVE MINUTES a year.
->
->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list
->have done that this year?  I bet less than
->one percent.

well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because we've
got 40 of them right here.  i'd say all of my 32 databases have been up that
much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-)  yup, i know i've
been lucky.

--
Bill "Shrek" Thater   Certifiable ORACLE DBA
Telergy, Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~
You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.
~~
Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts.  -
Kulawiec

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* * * * * Freedom of Information Act Notice * * * * * 
The information in this email is subject to the record protection mandated
by 5 United States Code 552(b)(4) and relevant judicial opinions. 
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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130)]

Title: RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions





I missed the call for presentations for OOW!


Is it too late?
Where do I find it?  (looked at ioug.org, didn't see it)



R. Matt Adams  - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    Give me an hour alone in  a bank
    Pay all my tickets, wipe the slate blank
    Give me a car, fill up the tank
    Tell me a boat full of lawyers just sank
  - Robert Cray



> -Original Message-
> From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:57 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> 
> 
> Jeremiah,
> 
> Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar 
> to what you 
> are doing..
> 
> "always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"
> 
> and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not 
> quite, but really 
> close.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or 
> neither of our 
> papers :)
> 
> Rachel
> 
> >From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
> >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
> >
> >All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type 
> held by newbies 
> >and
> >oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a 
> presentation and paper 
> >on a
> >whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote 
> for hot backup. 
> >  I
> >want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your 
> favorites (pet
> >peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this 
> list for any 
> >ideas I
> >glean.
> >
> >So far my favorite misconceptions are:
> >
> >* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> >* All network communication is done through the listener
> >* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> >* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> >* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> >* Export is a good way to back up your database
> >* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown 
> >immediate'
> >* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> >* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use 
> specific rollback seg)
> >* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> >* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> >* Lots of extents are bad
> >* Databases can't be renamed
> >* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> >* Listeners have to be started before the instance
> >* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> >* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> >* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> >* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> >* redolog size change requires outage
> >
> >What's *your* pet misconception?
> >
> >--
> >Jeremiah Wilton
> >http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> >
> >On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
> >
> > > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page 
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim 
>carrey-MASK style)
> > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this enlighten me
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
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>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Christopher Spence]

Is your paper available yet?  I would be curious to read it.

And something to add:

Misconceptions:

1.  99.9% hit ratio is perfect
  2.  Number datatype storage
  3.  Index performs better than full table scan
  4.  Raid 5 is poor performance for low write applications
  5.  DBA's get weekends off

I only took a few seconds to come up with these so I feel like I have added
something. 
There are many, and it is a great topic to write about.  

"Please pay Microsoft to complete rebooting your PC."

Christopher R. Spence
Oracle DBA
Fuelspot 



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jeremiah,

Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what you 
are doing..

"always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"

and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but really 
close.

It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our 
papers :)

Rachel

>From: Jeremiah Wilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:05:27 -0800
>
>All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by newbies

>and
>oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and paper

>on a
>whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot backup.

>  I
>want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites (pet
>peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for any 
>ideas I
>glean.
>
>So far my favorite misconceptions are:
>
>* Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
>* All network communication is done through the listener
>* Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
>* Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
>* Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
>* Export is a good way to back up your database
>* Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown 
>immediate'
>* Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
>* ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback seg)
>* Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
>* ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
>* Lots of extents are bad
>* Databases can't be renamed
>* Select count (1) is better than count (*).
>* Listeners have to be started before the instance
>* NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
>* Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
>* checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
>* Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
>* redolog size change requires outage
>
>What's *your* pet misconception?
>
>--
>Jeremiah Wilton
>http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
>
> > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim 
>carrey-MASK style)
> > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this enlighten me
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Rao, Maheswara]

Rachel,

I am interested in reading your paper - Exploding the Myths.  How do I get
access to this paper?  Is it available on any website?

Thanks

Rao


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jeremiah,

Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what you 
are doing..

"always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"

and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but really 
close.

It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our 
papers :)

Rachel

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RE: NOLOGGING

[Ramon Estevez]

You're right Jeremiah,

 tks

Ramon Estevez



*809-565-3121 x 225



* [EMAIL PROTECTED]





-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de Jeremiah
Wilton
Enviado el: Tuesday, 26 June, 2001 11:16 AM
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: NOLOGGING


DELETE is not a finction that NOLOGGING has any effect on.  You can't reduce
the
amount of redo generated in a delete by making the object NOLOGGING.  It is
a
common misconception :-) that NOLOGGING pertains to all types of DML and
DDL.
Please consult the following section of the Concepts Manual:

http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle8i/doc_library/817_doc/server.817/
a76965/c21dlins.htm#4418

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Ramon Estevez wrote:

> As I am concerned, the only redo information it generates is related
> to the system tablespace, the one refering to the manage of the extents.
>
> -Mensaje original-
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En nombre de Gaja Krishna
Vaidyanatha
>
> That is not true. Setting NOLOGGING at the object
> level only reduces the amount of redo generated for
> bulk INSERT operations with the /*+ APPEND */ hint,
> certain partition administration operations and of
> course during the creation of the object itself. It
> does not eliminate generation of redo during a delete
> operation.
>
> Attached is a sample output from a couple of delete
> commands, one with LOGGING and the other with
> NOLOGGING:
>
> --- Ramon Estevez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, you should get a improve performance due to the
> > nologging option in the
> > delete wont write redo log information.
> >
> > -Mensaje original-
> > De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]En
> >
> > If I have a delete which I know I never want to roll
> > back, can I get a
> > performance gain by using the nologging option ?
> >
> > Delete nologging is not, to the best of my
> > knowledge, documented on 8.1.6
> > ... but the query executes OK.
> >
> > However, when I used autotrace, the delete with
> > nologging seemed to give the
> > same or worse results than a normal delete.

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SQL Net Connection fails - bizarre

[Greg Solomon]

  Hi
   
  I 
  have an NT server which successfully does a SQL Net connection to various 
  databases on other boxes.
  It 
  can ping database X by ip address, but can't do a SQL Net connection (by ip 
  address) to it.
   
  I 
  have another box with the same default gateway, subnet mask, and with all 
  other settings in Lan Connections config identical.
  It 
  CAN connect to the database.  tnsnames.ora files are copies of one 
  another.
   
  Funny, I've never seen that happen before.  
  
   
  :-)
   
  Any 
  suggestions ?
   
  Cheers
  Greg

RE: Does OEM affect Oracle performance

[Gary Weber]

In short, no. This is assuming you will not use production databases for OEM
repository. Minimal impact in case you do. I setup OEM to hold hands for
about 15 databases, with various events, jobs, etc. It's been running ok for
the past year, with repository approaching 1 GB in size. My OEM management
server is on NT box used for other types of monitoring.

Great tool, easy to use, but not as reliable as shell scripts...

Gary Weber
Senior DBA
Charles Jones, LLC
609-530-1144, ext 5529

-Original Message-
Gurevich
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

We are running Oracle 8.1.6 and are planning to
install
OEM. Are there any issues regarding OEM affecting
oracle negetively (performance or otherwise) that
the people are aware of?

thanks


g

=


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RE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK

[Koivu, Lisa]

Title: RE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK





Hi Shirish, FWIW:


Function-based index?  Reverse index?  for case II?  
Have you considered either of these options to ease the pain of that query?


HTH
Lisa Koivu
Clumsy Ninja-ette (WA!)
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA



-Original Message-
From:   Shirish Khapre [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:42 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK


Hi all


i have one column in my table (in which daily 10 rows are added to the
table) which has values like


XYZ_A_LO_001
XYZ_A_LO_002
XYZ_A_LO_003
XYZ_A_LO_004
XYZ_A_LO_005
XYZ_A_LO_006
XYZ_A_LO_007
XYZ_A_LO_008
XYZ_A_LO_009


i want to check duplicate values.. there are 2 cases of duplication


Case I :- i am using the following query


select from my_table where rowid not in(
select max(rowid) from my_table
group by my_column_name );


i am getting the rows which are duplicate ..


CASE II : - i want to check duplication in last 7 characters(which are
actually nos) in my column like


001
002
003so on


i am using substr function to get this value and i am checking the values
with remaining rows..


but as the table contains nearly 45(present rowcount) the query is
taking lot of time...which i can't afford...
the column has index on it.


plz suggest me what to do??



Shirish Khapre, SE Rolta India Ltd.
Off Ph No. (+91) (022) 832,826,8300568
Ext'n 2730
Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open


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Re: thank you, all! -- Re: Query help !!!

[Big Planet]

should be something like .

 select custid 
 from   sample o
 where  status='F'
 group by custid , status
 having count(*) >=1
 and count(*) != (
select count(*)
from   sample i 
where  i.custid=o.custid )

Big P

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 5:20 PM


> 
> --- Leslie Lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just to clearfy my previous question (as follow):
> >
> > if 1 has F and A and B, that what I want.
> >
> > If 1 has F all the time, that's not what I want.
> > If 1 has A, B, C, but never F, that's not what I
> > want
> > either.
> >
> > --- Leslie Lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > If I have this:
> > > Customer_id  Status
> > > -- ---
> > > 1   F
> > > 1   A
> > > 1   B
> > > 2   F
> > > 2   F
> > > 3   A
> > > 3   B
> > >
> > > How do I found out a customer who has both F and
> > not
> > > F
> > > for them.  (If he only gets F, or gets other than
> > F,
> > > that's fine).  In this case, I should get 1.
> > Thank
> > > you!  I need this badly!
> > >
> > > __
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Leslie Lu
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Jesse, Rich]

Hi Jeremiah,

First, I believe it's a misconception that on a Unix system there can be no
data lost in an Oracle DB from a system crash.  This HAS to be a function of
"syncer", doesn't it?  And, therefore, until syncer decides any buffer
writes actually go to disk, transactions can be toast.  Granted, this is a
very short time, but the possibility would still exist for a standalone
Oracle DB, especially for one with a high transaction count.  But I haven't
seen any "official" info, whether true or false, from Oracle about this.
Comments, anyone???

Second, I hope you're going to have explanations and/or qualifications (even
brief ones!) about the misconceptions somewhere on your website?  There's a
few in your list that have me intrigued!

Thanks!
Rich Jesse  System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:05
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by newbies
and
oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and paper
on a
whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot backup.
I
want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites (pet
peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for any
ideas I
glean.

...
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The TNS listener dream

[Boivin, Patrice J]

One day, in the far, far future, Oracle products will all be using the same
tnsnames.ora and listener.ora files.

They will reside in the default_home, and all the Oracle products will
respect each other and not try to create listener processes that try to
listen on the same ports...


Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

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RE: DUPLICATE VALUE CHECK

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Shirish,

If the last 7 digits of this column has to be unique throughout the table,
why not, upon insert, move this value to another column in the table and
place a unique key on that column?  This will prevent the record from being
inserted.  

CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER TEST_TRIGGER
 BEFORE INSERT
 ON TEST_TABLE
 FOR EACH ROW

begin
  :new.number_column := to_number(substr(:new.full_column,-7,7));
end;
/

I have to ask the question - if a "part" of this data field is so important,
shouldn't it be in a separate column anyway?  It seems to me that the design
of this data column is incorrect.

I think I would break it up into several pieces like:

existing value XYZ_A_LO_001

col_prefix =  XYZ
col_header =  A
col_log=  LO
col_nbr=  001

Is this the primary key for the record?  You could still have the PK be the
above 4 columns.

hope this helps

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


i am getting duplicate records if the whole (say XYZ_A_LO_001) value
is repeated without much probs..
but my prob is checking duplication of the last 7 digits..

Shirish Khapre, SE Rolta India Ltd.
Off Ph No. (+91) (022) 832,826,8300568
Ext'n 2730
Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open


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OT RE: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Mohan, Ross]

I think it's on a site somewhere in Bulgaria. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Rachel,

I am interested in reading your paper - Exploding the Myths.  How do I get
access to this paper?  Is it available on any website?

Thanks

Rao


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jeremiah,

Marlene and I did an "exploding the myths" paper very similar to what you 
are doing..

"always set pctincrease on your temporary tablespace to 1"

and my OOW submission is very very similar to yours.  Not quite, but really 
close.

It will be interesting to see if they choose one, both or neither of our 
papers :)

Rachel

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RE: Griping about auditing (not the Oracle Kind)

[Kevin Lange]

Kimberly;
  Absolutely.   

And I did not take ANY of your comments as Rude or Presumptuous.  I am sorry
my comments in my note drove someone to think that of you.   



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:22 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is the line I was commenting on...
 "I personally think that you should wait with resizing any of your
production
data files until you get oracle errors saying that things can not extend."

I never once said that you should ignore the process put in place.  What I 
said is that waiting until there is an issue is not doing your job.  Fill in
the paper work.  If you are being proactive you have more then enough time
to
get that done before failure.  Now if a manager fails to approve it despite
your
best attempts to get it approved that is another matter all together.  But
at
least you have it documented that you knew it was an issue and that you
attempted
to fix it but your management would not let you.  If, after all that, they
try
and tell you that you are not doing your job correctly then get the hell
out.

So I do not think I was either rude or presumptuous.  Just failed to point
out
that I was really only commenting on that one line (which really stood out
to
me).

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Excuse me but you are a little presumptious and rude with that last mail. If
a process is put in place that requires a form to be signed and
authorisation to be given before action can be taken then I would be going
totally against the grain and would get into trouble for not adhering to the
company guidelines (as some of the UNIX S.A's did when they went in and made
changes without filling out the necessary paperwork !!). On the contrary to
your mail, I am a good DBA and I do take pride in my work and prior to the
ridiculous rules that were put in place all work was done proactively and we
never suffered because of it. What the managers (and "Quality Team", who had
no bloody idea what their process would do to us) failed to realise was
exactly how well I was doing my job, in that they were never bothered in the
past. Once the mistakes were made and there was reactive form filling
processes for certain things put in place, then things went back to normal.

I think thats whats called a bite on my behalf!!


-Original Message-
Sent: 25 June 2001 18:16
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I say that if you wait until you database has an error you really
aren't proving much except that you are not proactive in your job.
Which, in my book, makes you not a very good DBA.  Dealing with a
dumb process is one thing (we have our fair share on this account) 
but I take to much pride in my work to let things fail because I
need to fill in a piece of paper.

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Wahey !!! The answer I was going to provide. We started calling the manager
up quite frequently at home to authorise changes - he eventually saw sense.
Not quite as bad as 2am in the morning but inconvenient enough for him to
put a stop to it.

Best of Luck.


-Original Message-
Sent: 25 June 2001 17:07
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jay;
  I have had to go thru the same thing a couple times on a previous job with
Auditors.  Every time those kind of restrictions were placed on us it
brought things to a snails pace or, in some conditions, a complete halt.
Sooner or later they realized that it was unreasonable and lifted them.  But
it was a pain until they did it.

It took them a while to realize that we HAD to work the way we did in order
to keep things running smoothly.

I personally think that you should wait with resizing any of your production
data files until you get oracle errors saying that things can not extend.
At that time, call up the Sr. VP at 2 am in the morning and tell him that
you have a crisis but you can not proceed until you get his permission
because of the restrictions placed on you by the Auditors.   Repeat this
process as many times as neccessary for them to lift the restrictions.

Kevin

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:32 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We've been through an internal audit and I was just wondering if anyone else
has to deal with the rather ludicrous requirements I now have.  In order to
add or resize a datafile I now need to fill out a form and get Senior VP
approval and the alert logs must be reviewed every day by a non-DBA in order
to be certain that I didn't make any database changes without such approval.
The auditors were horrified to discover that not only did I do such things
whenever I thought them necessary but that we didn't have a non-DBA review
everything I did after an Oracle upgrade to ensure I didn't install any
other software.
Fortunately I managed to convince them that yes, I really did

RE: cdata & cglobal tabs

[Daniel Garant]

Hi

I also have these tables.  They are used and created by Coldfusion
(Allaire).  They contain session data to avoid using cookies on your web
site.

Daniel

-Original Message-
(HP-Sunnyvale,ex2)
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi, all,

Can someone help to enlighten my ignorance on cdata and cglobal tables?

After creating 10 tables and inserting data, I did a SELECT * FROM TABS. I
got cdata and cglobal tables. What are these two tables?

Thank you,
Julia
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Re: Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions

[Terry Ball]

1) If an index exists, it will always be used.
2) It is ALWAYS a database problem.

Terry

Jeremiah Wilton wrote:

> All right folks, I'm collecting misconceptions, of the type held by newbies and
> oldtimers alike.  My OOW proposal this year is for a presentation and paper on a
> whole laundry list of these things, similar to what I wrote for hot backup.  I
> want to share what I have so far and solicit input for your favorites (pet
> peeves).  I most certainly will credit individuals and this list for any ideas I
> glean.
>
> So far my favorite misconceptions are:
>
> * Hot backup stops writing to datafiles
> * All network communication is done through the listener
> * Always 'switch logfile' after (before, inbetween) hot backups
> * Media recovery is required if you crash during backup mode
> * Cold backup once a week ("just in case," "as a 'baseline'")
> * Export is a good way to back up your database
> * Shutdown abort is bad, crash recovery time is as long as 'shutdown immediate'
> * Listener.log/alert.log clearing confusion
> * ORA-1555 can be solved by setting transaction (use specific rollback seg)
> * Big batch jobs should use one big RBS
> * ORA-600 means you have corruption / just call support for ORA-600
> * Lots of extents are bad
> * Databases can't be renamed
> * Select count (1) is better than count (*).
> * Listeners have to be started before the instance
> * NOLOGGING turns off logging for all operations
> * Oracle Corp. won't support NFS datafiles
> * checkpoint not complete - misguided solutions
> * Must reinstantiate standby after failover by recopying
> * redolog size change requires outage
>
> What's *your* pet misconception?
>
> --
> Jeremiah Wilton
> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, novicedba wrote:
>
> > I visited Jeremiah Wilton's web page http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
> > I was shocked to read Hot backup mode explained
> > If this is true then I may be a victim of a disease called
> > 'Common Oracle RDBMS Misconceptions' . Somebody help me!! (Jim carrey-MASK style)
> > Please help me. If some one has few more articles like this enlighten me
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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