RE: Oracle position on hints

[Khedr, Waleed]

 Congratulations!

 No hints for you:)
 
 Regards,

 Waleed

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/8/03 8:53 PM

Just to add my meaningless diatribe to the discussion,
I think that there are "good" hints and "bad" hints.

For example, first_rows(n) is a good hint, in that you
are giving the optimizer more information as to what
your motivations are for this query, without stifling
it into a choice that may not be appropriate down the
track.

Hints such as index(tab,idx) are "bad" hints, because
you are more exposed to grief.  If the index is
renamed, then its no longer a hint.  If the data
distribution changes, or the index is rebuilt in
reverse or compressed, then it may no longer be a good
option, etc.

In terms of the vendor speak of "hints imply weak
optimizer" I think thats nonsense.  Having worked with
DB2 in the past, nothing used to be more irritating
then coming up with bizarre convolutions on an
otherwise simple SQL to ensure that certain indexes
were or were not chosen.

Cheers
Connor

PS - Its probably a little sad that I'm chit-chatting
on hints on the morning of my wedding day, but hey,
you gotta pass the time somehow whilst the other half
is getting the hair and makeup done :-)



 --- "Khedr, Waleed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 
It's like the Auto-pilot
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/8/03 2:13 PM
> 
> Stephane
>I don't see how Oracle could ever have an
> official position on hints.
> If
> they say hints are going away, many developers
> panic. If they say hints
> are
> great, then Oracle competitors will claim Oracle has
> a bad optimizer. 
>A key political issue in some shops is "Using
> hints makes our code
> Oracle-specific". My reply is that hints are only
> comments that another
> database will ignore.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our
> developpers.
> Some are good but most of them can use help.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append,
> I used them only if
> I
> really need to.
> 
> In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course,
> unless I miss
> something
> there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
> So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser
> would be more mature
> maybe
> hints would go away.
> 
> I just want to know what is Oracle direction with
> hints.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Stephane
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Robert - IL
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> This is facinating, where does this come from? This
> is the second time
> in a
> week that I've heard this statement being made by
> someone. Hints will
> never
> go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and
> more of them. I was
> told
> by someone at a client site that they were told by
> an Oracle instructor
> that
> they should not use hints in 9i
> 
> RF
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
> Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming
> bettre or they are there
> to stay ?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> Stephane Paquette
> 
> 
> Administrateur de bases de donnees
> 
> Database Administrator
> 
> Standard Life
> 
> www.standardlife.ca
> 
> Tél. (514) 925-7187
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Freeman Robert - IL
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Paquette
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).

RE: Oracle position on hints

[Grabowy, Chris]

Congratulations Connor!!!  This is a great day in your life, although some guys would 
not agree...

And thanks for sharing your knowledge about Oracle.

-Original Message-
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 8:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just to add my meaningless diatribe to the discussion,
I think that there are "good" hints and "bad" hints.

For example, first_rows(n) is a good hint, in that you
are giving the optimizer more information as to what
your motivations are for this query, without stifling
it into a choice that may not be appropriate down the
track.

Hints such as index(tab,idx) are "bad" hints, because
you are more exposed to grief.  If the index is
renamed, then its no longer a hint.  If the data
distribution changes, or the index is rebuilt in
reverse or compressed, then it may no longer be a good
option, etc.

In terms of the vendor speak of "hints imply weak
optimizer" I think thats nonsense.  Having worked with
DB2 in the past, nothing used to be more irritating
then coming up with bizarre convolutions on an
otherwise simple SQL to ensure that certain indexes
were or were not chosen.

Cheers
Connor

PS - Its probably a little sad that I'm chit-chatting
on hints on the morning of my wedding day, but hey,
you gotta pass the time somehow whilst the other half
is getting the hair and makeup done :-)



 --- "Khedr, Waleed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 
It's like the Auto-pilot
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/8/03 2:13 PM
> 
> Stephane
>I don't see how Oracle could ever have an
> official position on hints.
> If
> they say hints are going away, many developers
> panic. If they say hints
> are
> great, then Oracle competitors will claim Oracle has
> a bad optimizer. 
>A key political issue in some shops is "Using
> hints makes our code
> Oracle-specific". My reply is that hints are only
> comments that another
> database will ignore.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our
> developpers.
> Some are good but most of them can use help.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append,
> I used them only if
> I
> really need to.
> 
> In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course,
> unless I miss
> something
> there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
> So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser
> would be more mature
> maybe
> hints would go away.
> 
> I just want to know what is Oracle direction with
> hints.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Stephane
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Robert - IL
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> This is facinating, where does this come from? This
> is the second time
> in a
> week that I've heard this statement being made by
> someone. Hints will
> never
> go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and
> more of them. I was
> told
> by someone at a client site that they were told by
> an Oracle instructor
> that
> they should not use hints in 9i
> 
> RF
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
> Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming
> bettre or they are there
> to stay ?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> Stephane Paquette
> 
> 
> Administrateur de bases de donnees
> 
> Database Administrator
> 
> Standard Life
> 
> www.standardlife.ca
> 
> Tél. (514) 925-7187
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Freeman Robert - IL
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Paquette
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
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> (or the name of mailing list yo

RE: Oracle position on hints

[Pete Sharman]

Connor, what can we say?  You have gotta getta life!

Well, since you're getting a wife instead, that should take care of that
anyway.  Best wishes to you and Gillian, hope the day is all you want it
to be.

Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
 


-Original Message-
McDonald
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 5:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just to add my meaningless diatribe to the discussion,
I think that there are "good" hints and "bad" hints.

For example, first_rows(n) is a good hint, in that you
are giving the optimizer more information as to what
your motivations are for this query, without stifling
it into a choice that may not be appropriate down the
track.

Hints such as index(tab,idx) are "bad" hints, because
you are more exposed to grief.  If the index is
renamed, then its no longer a hint.  If the data
distribution changes, or the index is rebuilt in
reverse or compressed, then it may no longer be a good
option, etc.

In terms of the vendor speak of "hints imply weak
optimizer" I think thats nonsense.  Having worked with
DB2 in the past, nothing used to be more irritating
then coming up with bizarre convolutions on an
otherwise simple SQL to ensure that certain indexes
were or were not chosen.

Cheers
Connor

PS - Its probably a little sad that I'm chit-chatting
on hints on the morning of my wedding day, but hey,
you gotta pass the time somehow whilst the other half
is getting the hair and makeup done :-)



 --- "Khedr, Waleed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 
It's like the Auto-pilot
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/8/03 2:13 PM
> 
> Stephane
>I don't see how Oracle could ever have an
> official position on hints.
> If
> they say hints are going away, many developers
> panic. If they say hints
> are
> great, then Oracle competitors will claim Oracle has
> a bad optimizer. 
>A key political issue in some shops is "Using
> hints makes our code
> Oracle-specific". My reply is that hints are only
> comments that another
> database will ignore.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our
> developpers.
> Some are good but most of them can use help.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append,
> I used them only if
> I
> really need to.
> 
> In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course,
> unless I miss
> something
> there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
> So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser
> would be more mature
> maybe
> hints would go away.
> 
> I just want to know what is Oracle direction with
> hints.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Stephane
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Robert - IL
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> This is facinating, where does this come from? This
> is the second time
> in a
> week that I've heard this statement being made by
> someone. Hints will
> never
> go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and
> more of them. I was
> told
> by someone at a client site that they were told by
> an Oracle instructor
> that
> they should not use hints in 9i
> 
> RF
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
> Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming
> bettre or they are there
> to stay ?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> Stephane Paquette
> 
> 
> Administrateur de bases de donnees
> 
> Database Administrator
> 
> Standard Life
> 
> www.standardlife.ca
> 
> Tél. (514) 925-7187
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Freeman Robert - IL
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Paquette
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-

RE: Oracle position on hints

[Connor McDonald]

Just to add my meaningless diatribe to the discussion,
I think that there are "good" hints and "bad" hints.

For example, first_rows(n) is a good hint, in that you
are giving the optimizer more information as to what
your motivations are for this query, without stifling
it into a choice that may not be appropriate down the
track.

Hints such as index(tab,idx) are "bad" hints, because
you are more exposed to grief.  If the index is
renamed, then its no longer a hint.  If the data
distribution changes, or the index is rebuilt in
reverse or compressed, then it may no longer be a good
option, etc.

In terms of the vendor speak of "hints imply weak
optimizer" I think thats nonsense.  Having worked with
DB2 in the past, nothing used to be more irritating
then coming up with bizarre convolutions on an
otherwise simple SQL to ensure that certain indexes
were or were not chosen.

Cheers
Connor

PS - Its probably a little sad that I'm chit-chatting
on hints on the morning of my wedding day, but hey,
you gotta pass the time somehow whilst the other half
is getting the hair and makeup done :-)



 --- "Khedr, Waleed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 
It's like the Auto-pilot
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/8/03 2:13 PM
> 
> Stephane
>I don't see how Oracle could ever have an
> official position on hints.
> If
> they say hints are going away, many developers
> panic. If they say hints
> are
> great, then Oracle competitors will claim Oracle has
> a bad optimizer. 
>A key political issue in some shops is "Using
> hints makes our code
> Oracle-specific". My reply is that hints are only
> comments that another
> database will ignore.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our
> developpers.
> Some are good but most of them can use help.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append,
> I used them only if
> I
> really need to.
> 
> In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course,
> unless I miss
> something
> there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
> So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser
> would be more mature
> maybe
> hints would go away.
> 
> I just want to know what is Oracle direction with
> hints.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Stephane
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Robert - IL
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> This is facinating, where does this come from? This
> is the second time
> in a
> week that I've heard this statement being made by
> someone. Hints will
> never
> go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and
> more of them. I was
> told
> by someone at a client site that they were told by
> an Oracle instructor
> that
> they should not use hints in 9i
> 
> RF
> 
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
> Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming
> bettre or they are there
> to stay ?
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> Stephane Paquette
> 
> 
> Administrateur de bases de donnees
> 
> Database Administrator
> 
> Standard Life
> 
> www.standardlife.ca
> 
> Tél. (514) 925-7187
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Freeman Robert - IL
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Paquette
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Networ

RE: Oracle position on hints

[Khedr, Waleed]

 It's like the Auto-pilot

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/8/03 2:13 PM

Stephane
   I don't see how Oracle could ever have an official position on hints.
If
they say hints are going away, many developers panic. If they say hints
are
great, then Oracle competitors will claim Oracle has a bad optimizer. 
   A key political issue in some shops is "Using hints makes our code
Oracle-specific". My reply is that hints are only comments that another
database will ignore.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:19 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our developpers.
Some are good but most of them can use help.

I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append, I used them only if
I
really need to.

In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course, unless I miss
something
there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser would be more mature
maybe
hints would go away.

I just want to know what is Oracle direction with hints.

TIA

Stephane


-Original Message-
Robert - IL
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is facinating, where does this come from? This is the second time
in a
week that I've heard this statement being made by someone. Hints will
never
go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and more of them. I was
told
by someone at a client site that they were told by an Oracle instructor
that
they should not use hints in 9i

RF

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM

Hi,

Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming bettre or they are there
to stay ?

TIA



Stephane Paquette


Administrateur de bases de donnees

Database Administrator

Standard Life

www.standardlife.ca

Tél. (514) 925-7187

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Freeman Robert - IL
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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-- 
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Author: Stephane Paquette
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Author: Khedr, Waleed
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Who Owns Unix?

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

I think the underlying issue is Linux. The SCO people are seeing their
licensing fees slip away to the free Linux. As far as I've seen, every major
vendor has a Linux strategy. This is SCO's effort to strike back, discourage
defections. I think it is pretty dumb. 
We have been on DEC/Compaq/HP Tru64, which started out as OSF (Open
Software Foundation) Unix. When we visit vendor booths, we ask if they've
ported to Unix. They say "sure". We ask about Tru64 and they just shake
their heads. I was hoping Linux would help this issue, but I guess the
underlying problem is binary incompatibility, and each vendor will still
have to offer a separate binary for each hardware platform.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Per the below link, SCO owns Unix and they're suing IBM for a paltry
$1Billion: 
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/03/06/HNsco_1.html
  

How can this be? 

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RE: Oracle position on hints

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Stephane
   I don't see how Oracle could ever have an official position on hints. If
they say hints are going away, many developers panic. If they say hints are
great, then Oracle competitors will claim Oracle has a bad optimizer. 
   A key political issue in some shops is "Using hints makes our code
Oracle-specific". My reply is that hints are only comments that another
database will ignore.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:19 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our developpers.
Some are good but most of them can use help.

I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append, I used them only if I
really need to.

In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course, unless I miss something
there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser would be more mature maybe
hints would go away.

I just want to know what is Oracle direction with hints.

TIA

Stephane


-Original Message-
Robert - IL
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is facinating, where does this come from? This is the second time in a
week that I've heard this statement being made by someone. Hints will never
go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and more of them. I was told
by someone at a client site that they were told by an Oracle instructor that
they should not use hints in 9i

RF

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM

Hi,

Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming bettre or they are there
to stay ?

TIA



Stephane Paquette


Administrateur de bases de donnees

Database Administrator

Standard Life

www.standardlife.ca

Tél. (514) 925-7187

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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RE: Oracle on a SAN.... Good, Bad or Proceed with caution?

[Brian Dunbar]

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 4:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


NetApp SAN?

My understanding of NetApps was that is strictly NAS: Network Attached 
Storage.

Basically, JBOD with NIC.

SAN's offer quite a few more management and configuration options than 
NAS.


Jared

>There is a lot more to NetApp's Filer than JBOD with a NIC.  We looked at
both - SAN and NAS as done by NetApp  one year later we're sold on
NetApp.  NetApp has all of the management/DR features we'll need, and some
of the NetApp specific features have saved our collective tails on a few
occasions.

YMMV, but for an organization that's our size, SAN was overkill.

brian<
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RE: Oracle position on hints

[Nicoll, Iain]

Given the attitude of most dba's that you should always use bind variables
where possible I can't see how you'd cope with skewed data without them.
Most developers should know a databases's data better than the optimiser and
certainly when building queries it's always worthwhile seeing where data is
being most effectively filtered.
 
There are lots of mature systems out there where the data characteristics
are unlikely to change much and for most in-house developers you're never
going to have to think about portability but always about performance.
 
Iain Nicoll
-Original Message-
Sent: 07 March 2003 16:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,
 
Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming bettre or they are there to
stay ?
 
TIA
 
 

Stephane Paquette


Administrateur de bases de donnees

Database Administrator

Standard Life

www.standardlife.ca

Tél. (514) 925-7187

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


 
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Re: nt script

[Jay]

You might want to look at VBScript, it is easy to learn and can be executed
on any Win platform.

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:48 PM


> One bump you might encounter is some of the more useful NT shell commands
are only available from the NT resource kit.
>
>
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/07/03 01:09PM >>>
>
> C:\> HELP
>
> and
>
> C:\> HELP FOR
>
> In there you'll find a note that the context variable should have
> '%%' instead of '%' in front of it when running in a bat file.
>
> You were using the bat file syntax from a command linewon't
> work. The opposite is also true...ask me how I know  =8-)
>
> Jeff Herrick
>
> On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Jacques Kilchoer wrote:
>
> > Can anyone recommend a book / website on the DOS batch file language? I
> > usually try to install cygwin and write shell scripts but some of our
> > database servers don't have cygwin.
> > For example, I have no idea what this statement does:
> > FOR /F "TOKENS=1,2*" %%A IN ('DATE/T') DO SET DATE=%%B
> > and when I tried it I received an error
> > H:\>FOR /F "TOKENS=1,2*" %%A IN ('DATE/T') DO SET DATE=%%B
> > %%A was unexpected at this time.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jose Luis Delgado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > I'll try to help you between lines...
> > >
> > > i.e. I'll write the corresponding CMD line for your
> > > script.
> > >
> > > Regards!
> > > JL
> > >
> > > in a .CMD file:
> > >
> > > > echo Sending mail!!!
> > > echo Sending mail!!!
> > >
> > > > dt=$(date '+%H%M_%m%d%y')
> > > FOR /F "TOKENS=1,2*" %%A IN ('DATE/T') DO SET DATE=%%B
> > >
> > > > export ORACLE_SID=FMRPT
> > > SET ORACLE_SID=FMRPT
> > >
> > > > sqlplus / < sqllog
> > >
> > > in a file: say a.sql put the code of your query and
> > > type:
> > >
> > > sqlplus user/[EMAIL PROTECTED] < a.sql > sqllog.log
> > >
> > > >set heading off
> > > > SELECT 'FMRPT PSNTRP02 SCHEDULER DOWN' FROM DUAL
> > > >   WHERE EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PSSERVERSTAT
> > > >  ...
> > > >  ...
> > >
> > > > cat sqllog |egrep 'DOWN' > errfilelog
> > >
> > > type sqllog.log | findstr 'DOWN' > errfilelog.log
> > >
> > > > cat sqllog | egrep -q 'DOWN'
> > >
> > > I apologize for the previous line, I could not find a
> > > -q parameter of the egrep command, in my OS.
> > > anyway... 'guessing'
> > >
> > > type sqllog | findstr - 'DOWN'
> > >
> > > > if [ $? -eq 0 ] # found at least one
> > >
> > > if errorlevel 1 
> >
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Jeff Herrick
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
>
> --
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> --
> Author: Darrell Landrum
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RE: AW: Cannot delete datafile from O/S -- Help !!

[Turner, Adrian A SITI-ITPSIE]

My workaround is to offline the tablespace first; seems to work and havent
experienced any issues - but then maybe I'm just lucky. ;-)

-Original Message-
Sent: 07 March 2003 15:54
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Though this is how it works on NT, I was pleasantly surprised
the other day when I was able to delete the files from a tablespace
that had just been dropped on Win2k.

Jared

On Friday 07 March 2003 04:53, Stefan Jahnke wrote:
> Hi Khanna(?)
>
> Happens alot. Windows still holds a handle to the file. Just wait 'till
> next scheduled reboot (shouldn't be too long;).
>
> Regards,
> Stefan
>
> Stefan Jahnke
> Consultant
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>
> -Ursprungliche Nachricht-
> Von: Prem Khanna J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Marz 2003 11:54
> An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Betreff: Cannot delete datafile from O/S -- Help !!
>
>
> Guys,
>
> SQL> drop tablespace DATA14 including contents;
> Tablespace dropped.
>
> the name of the datafile in DATA14 tablespace is DATA141.DBF
>
> SQL>select * from v$tablespace where name = 'DATA14';
> no rows selected
>
> SQL>select * from v$tdatafile where name = 'DATA14.DBF';
> no rows selected
>
> when i try to delete the file DATA14.DBF from o/s , it says :
> "Cannot delete DATA14. There has been a sharing violation.The source or
> destination file may be in use."
>
> why is it so ? how can i delete the file from O/S ?
> can someone help me ?
>
> the ENV is 8.1.6 / win2k.
>
> TIA.
> Jp.
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