date:20030723

Jeroen
I haven't done this specific export/import. Hopefully someone who has
will respond. The usual prescription is to use the exp binary from the older
Oracle version to export the data. The layout of the data files changed
between Oracle 7 and Oracle 8, but did not change from 8 to 9, so you might
specifically look for instructions on moving data from 8 back to 7. I have
seen people on this list that have done that.
You might also start considering how you will confirm data integrity
after the data movement. Audit your data to see which data types you use. 
 In the worst case, you might have to install an Oracle 8 or 8i instance
and move the data in two steps. Hopefully it won't come to that.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Hi,

 

We are investigating possibilities for migration of an oracle 7.3.4 to
oracle 9i. We want to separate our

production DB from the app-logic such that we can migrate from oracle 7.3.4
on hp-ux 10.20 to oracle 9i

on hp-ux 11. Problem is our development and test-environment because we
cannot separate the logic at the

same time here also from the db (costs). Does anyone have any experience
with exporting from oracle 9i 

to oracle 7.3.4 ? 

 

I found the underlying note on metalink about the same problem but with
oracle 8. I have limited experience on oracle8

and none on oracle 9. So I hope you can give some tips.

..

You need to run the 7.3 version of export against your 8.0 database via
sqlnet/net8. Beforehand, you need to run rdbms/admin/catexp7.sql against
your 8.0 database. This creates the 7.3 export views required. Note that if
you have used any 8.0 specific features (e.g. objects) these will not be
exported for obvious reasons. 



 

Tia,

 

Jeroen

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RE: DB_BLOCK_LRU_LATCHES , multiple buffer pools , oracle9i

2003-07-23 Thread Hallas, John, Tech Dev

Not sure what exactly you are asking here but one way of sizing the multiple buffer 
pools is to look at V$DB_CACHE_ADVICE view.

The following is from the 9i performance tuning manual

V$DB_CACHE_ADVICE can be used to size all pools configured on an instance. Make the 
initial cache size estimate, run the representative workload, then simply query the 
V$DB_CACHE_ADVICE view for the pool you want to use.

For example, to query data from the KEEP pool:

SELECT size_for_estimate, buffers_for_estimate
 , estd_physical_read_factor, estd_physical_reads
  FROM V$DB_CACHE_ADVICE
 WHERE name  = 'KEEP'
   AND block_size= (SELECT value FROM V$PARAMETER 
 WHERE name = 'db_block_size')
   AND advice_status = 'ON';

John


-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 23 July 2003 13:17
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


  when configuring multiple buffer pools in oracle9i , how are lru_latches set.
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RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling

Title: RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling





Garry,


1. have you tried select to_char(sysdate,'D') from dual ??


This is really nice, but my only gripe with dbms-job is that is isn't reliable ... it wasn't in 9ir1 on aix and we didn't even look at it in 9ir2. in 9ir1 dbms_job used to _forget_ to run jobs after some time and the workaround was like setting job_processes to a very large number.

nevertheless, I think what you have attempted is fantastic and worthy of adoption ...


Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !



-Original Message-
From: Garry Gillies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: DBMS_JOB scheduling



Any Interest?


The DBMS_JOB package is supplied by Oracle to allow the running of procedures at regular intervals. Unfortunately the INTERVAL parameter is limited to 128 

characters, which prevents you from getting very complex (user defined functions [in the interval parameter] do not work well - according to Fuerstein in his book Oracle Built In Packages).

The situation is eased somewhat by the fact that the NEXT_DATE parameter can be supplied to the procedure as an in/out parameter - and the procedure can contain whatever code is necessary to calculate when next to run. This is all very well, but custom coding scheduling routines can quickly become tedious.

On the basis of do it once and get it over with I have written a function called NEXT_DATE which I have wrapped in a package called CRON.

There is a Unix program called cron which runs jobs on a regular basis. Although the scheduling data supplied to cron is simple and concise, complex schedules are easy to specify.

The NEXT_DATE function takes in a cron schedule string and returns the next date that conforms to the schedule - or you can supply a cron schedule and a date 

and it will return the first date after the supplied date that conforms to the schedule. At the moment it is not very friendly on the error detection front. A VALUE_ERROR is returned if it deems the cron schedule to be invalid. You will also get a VALUE_ERROR if the next valid date is more than twenty seven years in the future. DBMS_OUTPUT is used to display error messages which will hopefully give you a clue. 

This will be improved if I receive enough complaints ( and suggestions for improvements).


THE CRON SCHEDULE


A cron schedule consists of five components, each separated from the next by a space.
The syntax is identical for all components.
The components represent
 Minute in Hour
 Hour in day
 Day in month
 Month in year
 Day of Week - A bit of a bugger this one. 
 In Unix land the day numbering runs from 0-6 with 0 being Sunday. In Oracle the day numbering depends on the setting of NLS_TERRITORY.

 I have chosen to go with ISO standard 8601:1998 which runs from 1-7 with 1 being Monday. This is so close to the Unix convention that I can interpret Unix cron schedules correctly.

 Curiously, Oracle do not provide a date format which supplies this number. The ISO week number is available with the format 'IW', but not the ISO day number. If you have a field of type date called dt, you can obtain the ISO day number with ( trunc(dt) - trunc(dt ,'IW') ) + 1

A component can consist of an asterisk * which represents all valid values or a number of elements separated by a comma (if only one element is 

supplied, forget the comma). An element can be a single number - valid for the component (32 in Day in month is invalid) or two numbers separated by a hyphen - which represents a range.

EXAMPLES


Run every hour on the hour
 0 * * * *
Run twice every hour, on the hour and on the half hour
 0,30 * * * *
Run twice every hour, on the hour and on the half hour between 08:00 and 
16:59
 0,30 8-16 * * *
Run twice every hour, on the hour and on the half hour between 08:00 and 
16:59, Monday to Friday
 0,30 8-16 * * 1-5
Run at 11:12 every Friday the 13th
 11 12 13 * 5
Run at 04:00 every leap year on february 29
 0 4 29 2 *
Run at 04:00 every leap year on february 29 when february 29 is a Thursday
 0 4 29 2 4


Garry Gillies
Database Administrator
Business Systems
Weir Pumps Ltd
149 Newlands Road, Cathcart, Glasgow, G44 4EX
T: +44 0141 308 3982
F: +44 0141 633 1147
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank

Re: 9iAS vs. Weblogic and Websphere

2003-07-23 Thread Ryan

what functionality does 9iAS give you over just running apache?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:59 AM


 Ryan
My impression is that 9iAS probably has the best database interface.
The
 others look pretty primitive in comparison, basically just JDBC when you
get
 to the bottom. Also, note that Oracle is currently running a special to
lure
 WebLogic and Websphere users away. I think in this confusing, evolving
 market for application servers, a lot depends on your company's approach.
If
 your company is highly committed to Oracle, then 9iAS is the logical
choice.
 If you are highly committed to IBM, then Websphere is the logical choice.
In
 our case we had to persuade people to move away from MS, and the argument
 was that you wouldn't be locked into one vendor, so the tendency has been
to
 avoid Oracle for the non-DB pieces. I think the enterprise-scale AS are so
 complex that it is hard to compare feature-for-feature.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:54 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 I havent dug into 9iAS yet, but I want to learn atleast one of the major
web
 servers. It appears that WebLogic and Websphere dominate the market. It
also
 appears that 9iAS is tedious and has a poor design relative to these other
 two.

 What do you think? How different are the webservers? If I pick up one,
does
 it translate?

 Also, what functionality does 9iAS add that Apache does not have in and of
 itself? I was able to run 9i Forms with just apache and OC4J?

 Ryan

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Re: SQL question : How to retrieve the File_name without Directorie P

Phillipe,
Look at using INSTR and SUBSTR to calculate the position of the last / and 
work from there.

Daniel

 NGUYEN Philippe (Cetelem) wrote:
 
 Hi Gurus!
 a very simple problem for You :I just want to retrieve the .dbf name from file_name 
 column in dba_data_files.
 eg :'/oracle/d0/data/user.dbf' -- user.dbf
 Maybe using translate function ?
 Thank in advance !
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Quick RMAN Verfication question

2003-07-23 Thread Stefick Ronald S Contr ESC/HRIDD

Title: Quick RMAN Verfication question





I believe you can setup an RMAN Recovery Catalog within a database on a UNIX platform, which will back up a DB on Win2k. But I've never set it up this way. So basically, my question is, Is anyone else doing this right now? how well does it work for you? 

I'm understanding that there should be no difference because RMAN's Recovery catalog is just holding the metadata (nothing OS specific). Is my understanding correct?

Thanks, 


Scott Stefick
MILPDS OCP Oracle DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
565-2540

RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling

2003-07-23 Thread Igor Neyman

Title: RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling









Raj,



You must be speaking from UNIX
heights -J

Under Windows I find dbms_job much more
reliable than windows at scheduling.

Actually, never had problems with dbms_job
forgetting to run a job.





Igor Neyman, OCP DBA

[EMAIL PROTECTED]







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamadagni,
Rajendra
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003
9:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling



Garry, 

1. have you tried select to_char(sysdate,'D') from
dual ?? 

This is really nice, but my only gripe with dbms-job
is that is isn't reliable ... it wasn't in 9ir1 on aix and we didn't even look
at it in 9ir2. in 9ir1 dbms_job used to _forget_ to run jobs after some time
and the workaround was like setting job_processes to a very large number.

nevertheless, I think what you have attempted is fantastic
and worthy of adoption ... 

Raj 


Rajendra dot Jamadagni at
nospamespn dot com 
All Views expressed in this email
are strictly personal. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having
an opinion is an art ! 



-Original Message- 
From: Garry Gillies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:59
AM 
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L 
Subject: DBMS_JOB scheduling




Any Interest? 

The DBMS_JOB package is supplied by Oracle to allow
the running of procedures at regular intervals. Unfortunately the INTERVAL
parameter is limited to 128 

characters, which prevents you from getting very complex
(user defined functions [in the interval parameter] do not work well -
according to Fuerstein in his book Oracle Built In Packages).

The situation is eased somewhat by the fact that the
NEXT_DATE parameter can be supplied to the procedure as an in/out parameter -
and the procedure can contain whatever code is necessary to calculate when next
to run. This is all very well, but custom coding scheduling routines can
quickly become tedious.

On the basis of do it once and get it over
with I have written a function called NEXT_DATE which I have wrapped in a
package called CRON.

There is a Unix program called cron which runs jobs on
a regular basis. Although the scheduling data supplied to cron is simple and
concise, complex schedules are easy to specify.

The NEXT_DATE function takes in a cron schedule string
and returns the next date that conforms to the schedule - or you can supply a
cron schedule and a date 

and it will return the first date after the supplied
date that conforms to the schedule. At the moment it is not very friendly on
the error detection front. A VALUE_ERROR is returned if it deems the cron
schedule to be invalid. You will also get a VALUE_ERROR if the next valid
date is more than twenty seven years in the future. DBMS_OUTPUT is used to
display error messages which will hopefully give you a clue. 

This will be improved if I receive enough complaints (
and suggestions for improvements). 

THE CRON SCHEDULE 

A cron schedule consists of five components, each
separated from the next by a space. 
The syntax is identical for all
components. 
The components represent


Minute in Hour 

Hour in day 

Day in month 

Month in year 

Day of Week - A bit of a bugger this one. 

In Unix land the day numbering runs from 0-6 with 0 being Sunday. In Oracle the
day numbering depends on the setting of NLS_TERRITORY.

 I
have chosen to go with ISO standard 8601:1998 which runs from 1-7 with 1
being Monday. This is so close to the Unix convention that I can interpret Unix
cron schedules correctly.


Curiously, Oracle do not provide a date format which supplies this number. The
ISO week number is available with the format 'IW', but not the ISO day number.
If you have a field of type date called dt, you can obtain the ISO day number
with ( trunc(dt) - trunc(dt ,'IW') ) + 1

A component can consist of an asterisk
* which represents all valid values or a number of elements
separated by a comma (if only one element is 

supplied, forget the comma). An element can be a
single number - valid for the component (32 in Day in month is
invalid) or two numbers separated by a hyphen - which
represents a range.

EXAMPLES 

Run every hour on the hour 
 0 * * * *

Run twice every hour, on the hour
and on the half hour 
 0,30 * * *
* 
Run twice every hour, on the hour
and on the half hour between 08:00 and 
16:59 
 0,30 8-16
* * * 
Run twice every hour, on the hour
and on the half hour between 08:00 and 
16:59, Monday to Friday

 0,30 8-16 * * 1-5

Run at 11:12 every Friday the 13th

 11 12 13 * 5

Run at 04:00 every leap year on
february 29 
 0 4 29 2 *

Run at 04:00 every leap year on
february 29 when february 29 is a Thursday 
 0 4 29 2 4


Garry Gillies 
Database Administrator

Business Systems 
Weir Pumps Ltd 
149 Newlands Road, Cathcart,
Glasgow, G44 4EX 
T: +44 0141 308 3982 
F: +44 0141 633 1147 
E: [EMAIL

RE: logon trigger to start tracing

2003-07-23 Thread Paul Baumgartel

Oracle9i 9.2.0.3.0, O7_DICTIONARY_ACCESSIBILITY is FALSE.

--- Jacques Kilchoer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What database version? What is your setting for
 O7_DICTIONARY_ACCESSIBILITY?
 I tried the following in an 8.1.7 database with
 O7_DICTIONARY_ACCESSIBILITY = FALSE
 
 create user x identified by ... ;
 grant create session, create trigger to x ;
 
 (logging on as SYSDBA)
 grant execute on sys.dbms_support to x ;
 
 CONNECT X ...
 create trigger schema_trace
 after logon
 on schema
 begin
sys.dbms_support.start_trace (waits = false, binds = false) ;
 end ;
 /
 DISCONNECT
 
 logon as user X:
 trace file created
 
 logon as user Y:
 no trace file created
 
 logon as user Y, say alter sesssion set current_schema = X ;
 no trace file created
 
 No error messages in alert log
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  In an attempt to catch all SQL issued by a report, I created a
 logon
  trigger in the report's logon schema.  (As SYS, I granted the user
  EXECUTE on DBMS_SESSION before creating the trigger.)  As the
 schema
  owner, I am able to execute DBMS_SESSION.SET_SQL_TRACE
 interactively.
  
  On logon, trace files are created, but they contain the following:
  
  *** SESSION ID:(27.4739) 2003-07-22 18:52:53.000
  Skipped error 604 during the execution of RPT_PERF.TRACE_ALL 
  *** 2003-07-22 18:52:53.000
  ksedmp: internal or fatal error
  ORA-00604: error occurred at recursive SQL level 1
  ORA-01031: insufficient privileges
  ORA-06512: at SYS.DBMS_SESSION, line 126
  ORA-06512: at line 2
  
  
  When SQL statements are executed in the session, no further trace
  information is added to the file.
  
  Anyone know what's going on here?
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
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Securing the Database Structure

2003-07-23 Thread Hussain Ahmed Qadri

Hi all,
When you develop a software and you intend to sell it, are there any ways of saving 
your database structure. Because obviously we don't give the fmb's, we only give the 
executable. But to run the software we need to have the database and there are ways by 
which the database structure can be seen, imp/exp is an example for one. I know by 
getting the database structure it would be very difficult to interpret the system, but 
structure is the core of the whole thing. So I wanted to ask what are the steps that 
are followed when you are packaging your software to sell and what are the security 
measures to protect your application, forms, database structures, etc.
Plus any good method/utility to encrypt the contents of a batch file but at the same 
time allowing it to be executed.

Thanks and regards,

Hussain


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Re: Timestamps in trace files

Gudmundur,
Where is this documented (so I can RTFM)?
The one piece of this I don't quite understand is that the timestamp is not 
emitted twice in a row. If the long time is the triggering event, why do I see a gap 
of 90 minutes (in another trace file)?

Daniel

Gudmundur Bjarni Josepsson wrote:
 
 Daniel,
 
 Perhaps someone else can explain this better but the documentation I've
 got on this says that the Oracle kernel emits timestamps when a long
 time has elapsed since the last line was emitted to the trace file.
 Long time is defined as tens of seconds.
 
 Gudmundur
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Daniel Fink
  Sent: 22. júlí 2003 21:19
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: Timestamps in trace files
 
 
  I was perusing a 10046 trace file and I noticed that
  timestamps are written to the trace file. Sometimes they were
  very regular (3 minutes apart give or take 30 seconds) while
  other times they were hours apart. I have noticed that two
  timestamps are never written without any intervening
  activity. Anyone have any idea on the reasoning behind the
  timestamps and the 'triggering event'?
 
  Daniel
 
 
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Re: logon trigger to start tracing

2003-07-23 Thread Paul Baumgartel

That's it!  Thanks...sometimes I forget that a trigger is a stored
object, too.

Regards,


--- Wolfgang Breitling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The logon user needs to have granted alter session privileges
 directly to 
 her, not just through a role.


=
Paul Baumgartel
Transcentive, Inc.
www.transcentive.com

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RE: logon trigger to start tracing

Title: RE: logon trigger to start tracing





Paul,


remember it is a trigger ... so it runs under executing user's privs ... 


1. everyone needs a direct grant for execute on dbms_session
2. there needs to be a public synonym for dbms_session 
3. yell Bingo!


Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !



-Original Message-
From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: logon trigger to start tracing



Oracle9i 9.2.0.3.0, O7_DICTIONARY_ACCESSIBILITY is FALSE.



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RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling

2003-07-23 Thread Garry Gillies

 1. have you tried select to_char(sysdate,'D') from dual ?? 
Yes, and it works fine on MY servers, but the docs say that the value 
returned
depends on your NLS_TERRITORY setting. I am trying to get it to work for
everybody.
 This is really nice, but my only gripe with dbms-job is that is isn't 
reliable ... it wasn't in 9ir1 on aix and we didn't even look at it in 
9ir2. in 9ir1 dbms_job used to _forget_ to run jobs after some time and 
the workaround was like setting job_processes to a very large number.
I am sorry to hear that. We are on 8.1.7 and have been using since 7.3 
with no major problems.
nevertheless, I think what you have attempted is fantastic and worthy of 
adoption ...
Are you looking for money? :-)

Garry Gillies
Database Administrator
Business Systems
Weir Pumps Ltd
149 Newlands Road, Cathcart, Glasgow, G44 4EX
T: +44 0141 308 3982
F: +44 0141 633 1147
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23/07/03 15:24
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: 
Subject:RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling


Garry, 
1. have you tried select to_char(sysdate,'D') from dual ?? 
This is really nice, but my only gripe with dbms-job is that is isn't 
reliable ... it wasn't in 9ir1 on aix and we didn't even look at it in 
9ir2. in 9ir1 dbms_job used to _forget_ to run jobs after some time and 
the workaround was like setting job_processes to a very large number.
nevertheless, I think what you have attempted is fantastic and worthy of 
adoption ... 

 



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DB_BLOCK_SIZE??? Survey.

2003-07-23 Thread Grabowy, Chris

I just started at my new DBA job, and I have been reviewing their database 
installation procedure.  I noticed that they create all their databases with a 4K 
block size.  This is for Oracle 9.2 on AIX 5.2.  It has been my general understanding 
that most sites these days use 8K db_block_size as a minumum for general OLTP 
databases.  And some sites are considering 16K db block size tablespace for indexes.  

At any rate, does anyone have any pro/con thoughts on the smaller 4K db block size???

Also, if your interested, please reply back to me DIRECTLY with your site's 
DB_BLOCK_SIZEs for OLTP/DWs.  I promise to tally the results and share them with 
everyone.  

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Many thanks.
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Clarification sought regarding configuring two-node Oracle9i RAC on RH Linux AS 2.1

2003-07-23 Thread Ranganath K









Hi Listers,



 I
am trying to configure a two-node Oracle9i RAC on Redhat Linux AS 2.1. I have 2 network cards in each
node. Oracle doc. says that one of
the network cards has to be on a public network and the other network card on a
private network each configured with static ips. Does this mean that the first network
card is configured with a static ip which is resolved by the DNS Server and on
a network and the other network card is configured with any junk ip which need
not be resolved by DNS Server and need not be on the network? Can I configure the RAC with this
understanding? Please clarify.



 Does
anybody have an exhaustive document on configuring Oracle9i RAC on RH Linux AS
2.1 on a two-node/four-node cluster apart from the RAC install-tips document at
technet.oracle.com? If so, can they pass it on to me please? If not, can anybody please let me know
any URL from where I can download the same?



Thanks and Regards,



Ranganath








MailFiler [RK-ANH8LQ2]

RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling

Title: RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling



Igor,

you are right ... as a unwritten policy we don't allow windows databases 
... even for crash test dummies ...

Raj
 
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot 
com All Views expressed in this email 
are strictly personal. QOTD: Any clod 
can have facts, having an opinion is an art ! 

  -Original Message-From: Igor Neyman 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:40 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  DBMS_JOB scheduling
  
  Raj,
  
  You must be speaking 
  from "UNIX heights" -J
  Under Windows I find 
  dbms_job much more reliable than windows "at" scheduling.
  Actually, never had 
  problems with dbms_job "forgetting" to run a job.
  
  
  Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamadagni, 
  RajendraSent: Wednesday, 
  July 23, 2003 9:24 AMTo: 
  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: DBMS_JOB 
  scheduling
  
  Garry, 
  1. have you tried select to_char(sysdate,'D') from 
  dual ?? 
  This is really nice, but my only gripe with dbms-job 
  is that is isn't reliable ... it wasn't in 9ir1 on aix and we didn't even look 
  at it in 9ir2. in 9ir1 dbms_job used to _forget_ to run jobs after some time 
  and the workaround was like setting job_processes to a very large 
  number.
  nevertheless, I think what you have attempted is 
  fantastic and worthy of adoption ... 
  Raj  
  Rajendra dot Jamadagni at 
  nospamespn dot com All Views expressed in this email are strictly 
  personal. QOTD: 
  Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art ! 
  
  -Original Message- From: Garry Gillies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 
  5:59 AM To: 
  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: DBMS_JOB scheduling 
  
  Any Interest? 
  The DBMS_JOB package is supplied by Oracle to allow 
  the running of procedures at regular intervals. Unfortunately the INTERVAL 
  parameter is limited to 128 
  characters, which prevents you from getting very 
  complex (user defined functions [in the interval parameter] do not work well - 
  according to Fuerstein in his book Oracle Built In 
Packages).
  The situation is eased somewhat by the fact that the 
  NEXT_DATE parameter can be supplied to the procedure as an in/out parameter - 
  and the procedure can contain whatever code is necessary to calculate when 
  next to run. This is all very well, but custom coding scheduling routines can 
  quickly become tedious.
  On the basis of "do it once and get it over 
  with" I have written a function called NEXT_DATE which I have wrapped in a 
  package called CRON.
  There is a Unix program called cron which runs jobs on 
  a regular basis. Although the scheduling data supplied to cron is simple and 
  concise, complex schedules are easy to specify.
  The NEXT_DATE function takes in a cron schedule string 
  and returns the next date that conforms to the schedule - or you can supply a 
  cron schedule and a date 
  and it will return the first date after the supplied 
  date that conforms to the schedule. At the moment it is not very friendly on 
  the error detection front. A VALUE_ERROR is returned if it deems the 
  cron schedule to be invalid. You will also get a VALUE_ERROR if the next 
  valid date is more than twenty seven years in the future. DBMS_OUTPUT is used 
  to display error messages which will hopefully give you a clue. 
  
  This will be improved if I receive enough complaints ( 
  and suggestions for improvements). 
  THE CRON SCHEDULE 
  A cron schedule consists of five components, each 
  separated from the next by a space. The syntax is identical for all 
  components. The 
  components represent  
  Minute in Hour  Hour 
  in day  Day 
  in month  Month 
  in year  Day 
  of Week - A bit of a bugger this one.  In 
  Unix land the day numbering runs from 0-6 with 0 being Sunday. In Oracle the 
  day numbering depends on the setting of NLS_TERRITORY.
   I 
  have chosen to go with ISO standard 8601:1998 which runs from 1-7 with 1 
  being Monday. This is so close to the Unix convention that I can interpret 
  Unix cron schedules correctly.
   
  Curiously, Oracle do not provide a date format which supplies this number. The 
  ISO week number is available with the format 'IW', but not the ISO day number. 
  If you have a field of type date called dt, you can obtain the ISO day number 
  with ( trunc(dt) - trunc(dt ,'IW') ) + 1
  A component can consist of an asterisk 
  * which represents all valid values or a number of elements 
  separated by a comma (if only one element is 
  supplied, forget the comma). An element can be a 
  single number - valid for the component (32 in "Day in month" is invalid) or

RE: 9iAS vs. Weblogic and Websphere

2003-07-23 Thread Goulet, Dick

Dennis,

I've heard the not getting locked into one vendor idea before.  It happens 
to be the mantra from our current CIO.  Problem is then that you have vendors pointing 
fingers at the other guys when something goes wrong.  Previous place I worked was ALL 
DEC from the ground up.  Something went wrong you knew who to call  that they would 
have to do something. So there's something to be said for both worlds.  Just depends 
on your desires/policies.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ryan
   My impression is that 9iAS probably has the best database interface. The
others look pretty primitive in comparison, basically just JDBC when you get
to the bottom. Also, note that Oracle is currently running a special to lure
WebLogic and Websphere users away. I think in this confusing, evolving
market for application servers, a lot depends on your company's approach. If
your company is highly committed to Oracle, then 9iAS is the logical choice.
If you are highly committed to IBM, then Websphere is the logical choice. In
our case we had to persuade people to move away from MS, and the argument
was that you wouldn't be locked into one vendor, so the tendency has been to
avoid Oracle for the non-DB pieces. I think the enterprise-scale AS are so
complex that it is hard to compare feature-for-feature.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I havent dug into 9iAS yet, but I want to learn atleast one of the major web
servers. It appears that WebLogic and Websphere dominate the market. It also
appears that 9iAS is tedious and has a poor design relative to these other
two.

What do you think? How different are the webservers? If I pick up one, does
it translate?

Also, what functionality does 9iAS add that Apache does not have in and of
itself? I was able to run 9i Forms with just apache and OC4J?

Ryan

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trace for error number

2003-07-23 Thread Ehresmann, David

List,

I need to trace for a specific Oracle error number,  ORA-01722.  Any
suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks,

David Ehresmann 
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Re: Securing the Database Structure

2003-07-23 Thread Joe Testa

I wouldnt be concerned with hiding the db structure, look at 
peopleslop(aka peoplesoft), the structure is there for all to see but 
how its implemented is all on program code, yes you can eventually 
figure out how its all related(took me 6 months on one of the versions 
but I figured out all of those PS tables and how there were inter-related).

joe

Hussain Ahmed Qadri wrote:

Hi all,
When you develop a software and you intend to sell it, are there any ways of saving 
your database structure. Because obviously we don't give the fmb's, we only give the 
executable. But to run the software we need to have the database and there are ways by 
which the database structure can be seen, imp/exp is an example for one. I know by 
getting the database structure it would be very difficult to interpret the system, but 
structure is the core of the whole thing. So I wanted to ask what are the steps that 
are followed when you are packaging your software to sell and what are the security 
measures to protect your application, forms, database structures, etc.
Plus any good method/utility to encrypt the contents of a batch file but at the same 
time allowing it to be executed.
Thanks and regards,

Hussain

 

--
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Chief Technology Officer 
Data Management Consulting
p: 614-791-9000
f: 614-791-9001

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RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling

Title: RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling





nope ... at-least not yet.


Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !



-Original Message-
From: Garry Gillies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: DBMS_JOB scheduling



Are you looking for money? :-)


Garry Gillies



This e-mail 
message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may 
contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from 
disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are 
not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 
and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank 
you.*2

RE: 9iAS vs. Weblogic and Websphere

Ryan
I'm no Java expert and am willing to be corrected. My understanding
is that Apache is just a web page server. The better comparison is between
Tomcat and 9iAS. Since most web hits are for just static pages, you may even
chose to have Apache front-end your 9iAS. Over Tomcat, 9iAS is J2EE
compliant. Also more scalability. And if your company isn't ready for open
source, 9iAS offers a big vendor to yell at.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


what functionality does 9iAS give you over just running apache?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:59 AM


 Ryan
My impression is that 9iAS probably has the best database interface.
The
 others look pretty primitive in comparison, basically just JDBC when you
get
 to the bottom. Also, note that Oracle is currently running a special to
lure
 WebLogic and Websphere users away. I think in this confusing, evolving
 market for application servers, a lot depends on your company's approach.
If
 your company is highly committed to Oracle, then 9iAS is the logical
choice.
 If you are highly committed to IBM, then Websphere is the logical choice.
In
 our case we had to persuade people to move away from MS, and the argument
 was that you wouldn't be locked into one vendor, so the tendency has been
to
 avoid Oracle for the non-DB pieces. I think the enterprise-scale AS are so
 complex that it is hard to compare feature-for-feature.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:54 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 I havent dug into 9iAS yet, but I want to learn atleast one of the major
web
 servers. It appears that WebLogic and Websphere dominate the market. It
also
 appears that 9iAS is tedious and has a poor design relative to these other
 two.

 What do you think? How different are the webservers? If I pick up one,
does
 it translate?

 Also, what functionality does 9iAS add that Apache does not have in and of
 itself? I was able to run 9i Forms with just apache and OC4J?

 Ryan

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RE: DB_BLOCK_SIZE??? Survey.

2003-07-23 Thread Syed Ahmed

Hi Chris,

Be default Oracle 9i create database with 4k block_size ,you can choose
differently types of block_size on tablespace level. You may like to look
into tablespace block_sizes. I have a 4 k block size in one of our
production database but it allows me to have different block size on
tablespace level.

Regards,


Syed Ahmed
Database Administrator
Technical Services. RSS
Rogers Communications Inc.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:http://www.rogers.com


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I just started at my new DBA job, and I have been reviewing their database
installation procedure.  I noticed that they create all their databases with
a 4K block size.  This is for Oracle 9.2 on AIX 5.2.  It has been my general
understanding that most sites these days use 8K db_block_size as a minumum
for general OLTP databases.  And some sites are considering 16K db block
size tablespace for indexes.  

At any rate, does anyone have any pro/con thoughts on the smaller 4K db
block size???

Also, if your interested, please reply back to me DIRECTLY with your site's
DB_BLOCK_SIZEs for OLTP/DWs.  I promise to tally the results and share them
with everyone.  

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Many thanks.
-- 
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How to tell if a given session is coming across a db link?

2003-07-23 Thread Thomas Jeff

I have a task to pull v$session info from various databases and insert into
a history table. 
I'd like to exclude those sessions that are connected to a database via a db
link.   
Is there an easy way to identify such sessions?   


Thanks.


Jeffery D Thomas
DBA
Thomson Information Services
Thomson, Inc.

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Indy DBA Master Documentation available at:
http://gkmqp.tce.com/tis_dba



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Re: possible to set continuation prompt in sql*plus?

Building on Jacques' solution, here is one that aligns all the statements nice and 
neat. Of course, it does not have the username/instance, so I don't know how 
acceptable it is

select '  1  ' 
as new_prompt
from dual
/

set sqlprompt new_sqlprompt


  1  select 1,
  2  2,
  3  3,
  4  4,
  5  5,
  6  6,
  7  7,
  8  8,
  9  9,
 10  10
 11  from dual;


 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  
8  9 10
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- 
-- -- --
 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  
8  9 10




Jacques Kilchoer wrote:
 
 You can always set your prompt to take up two lines, but that looks ugly to me too.
 See example.
 SQL show user
 USER est SYSTEM
 SQL show sqlprompt
 sqlprompt SQL 
 SQL -- change prompt to be connected username and last 4
 SQL --  characters of instance name
 SQL column new_prompt new_value new_sqlprompt
 SQL select
   2 user || '@' || chr (10) ||
   3   substr (instance_name, length (instance_name) - 3) || ''
   4   as new_prompt
   5   from v$instance ;
 
 NEW_PROMPT
 -
 SYSTEM@
 jrk1
 
 SQL set sqlprompt new_sqlprompt
 SYSTEM@
 jrk1select *
   2  from dual ;
 
 D
 -
 X
 
 SYSTEM@
 jrk1
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Pardee, Roy E [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Apologies--I wasn't clear in my original post.  Right now I'm getting:
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] select username
2  from dba_users
3  where username like '%MC%' ;
 
  What I'd *really* like to have is:
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] select username
 2  from dba_users
 3  where username like '%MC%' ;
 
  That way I could copy/paste sql commands as easily as I could
  when my prompt was just SQL .
 
  Setting sqlnumber off gets me:
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] select username
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] from dba_users
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] where username like '%MC%' ;
 
  Which isn't horrible, although I do miss the numbers.  But no
  matter--I'll just live with it...
 --
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Re: trace for error number

David,
This comes with the usual caveats (contact oracle support, don't do this 
without testing, some fading may occur, objects in the rear view mirror are larger 
than they appear)...
On error dumps are pretty straight forward. If you can reproduce the error in 
a session, just set it at the session level. 
alter session set events '1722 trace name errorstack level 1'
Level 0 - error stack only
Level 1 - 0 + function call stack
Level 2 - 1 + process state
Level 3 - 2 + context (cursor) area
Level 42 - automatically correct error, remove user privileges for running a 
bad query, call Domino's and order a large cheese pizza, send the bill to Larry E.

Daniel
Ehresmann, David wrote:
 
 List,
 
 I need to trace for a specific Oracle error number,  ORA-01722.  Any
 suggestions would be appreciated.
 
 thanks,
 
 David Ehresmann
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Re: trace for error number

2003-07-23 Thread Joan Hsieh


David,

You can try this, I think. -joan

alter session set events '1722 trace name systemstate level 10'; 

Ehresmann, David wrote:
 
 List,
 
 I need to trace for a specific Oracle error number,  ORA-01722.  Any
 suggestions would be appreciated.
 
 thanks,
 
 David Ehresmann
 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
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Re: 9iAS vs. Weblogic and Websphere

2003-07-23 Thread Alessandro Guimarães




Hi,

The Oracle http server (OHS) is a collection of 
three distinct feature sets.

1 - Web Server based on the proven Apache 
technology.It also provides support for WebDAV, with Oracle9iDB as a 
backing store. The Proxy Plug-In component allows Oracle9iAS to be used with 
other web servers such as IIS and NES. 
2 - Dynamic Web Applications- it provides an 
ability to write web applications in several languages - PLSQL, Perl, Server 
Side Include, C/C++ etc. It also provides some frameworks - DMS for monitoring, 
and Java Object Cache for caching Java objects. 
3 - Clustering frameworking for Oracle9ias - The 
new infrastructure enables quick distributed deployment of J2EE applications. It 
also monitors all processes in a cluster for failure and transparently updates 
the routing table for optimal load balancing and minimum runtime impact on 
requests. 

Web servers - Apache, Zeus , ISS
Servlets Engines - Tom Cat, Apache 
Jserver/OC4

Oracle9iAS Release 2 (v9.0.3) is 100% J2EE 1.3 
Compatible(TM).


Alessandro Guimarães

- Original Message - 
From: "DENNIS WILLIAMS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: 9iAS vs. Weblogic and 
Websphere
 Ryan I'm no Java expert and am willing to be corrected. My 
understanding is that Apache is just a web page server. The better 
comparison is between Tomcat and 9iAS. Since most web hits are for just 
static pages, you may even chose to have Apache front-end your 9iAS. 
Over Tomcat, 9iAS is J2EE compliant. Also more scalability. And if your 
company isn't ready for open source, 9iAS offers a big vendor to yell 
at.  Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, 
July 23, 2003 9:29 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  what functionality does 9iAS give you over just running 
apache? - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of 
list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:59 AMRyan 
 My impression is that 9iAS probably has the best database 
interface. The  others look pretty primitive in comparison, 
basically just JDBC when you get  to the bottom. Also, note 
that Oracle is currently running a special to lure  WebLogic 
and Websphere users away. I think in this confusing, evolving  
market for application servers, a lot depends on your company's 
approach. If  your company is highly committed to Oracle, 
then 9iAS is the logical choice.  If you are highly 
committed to IBM, then Websphere is the logical choice. In  
our case we had to persuade people to move away from MS, and the 
argument  was that you wouldn't be locked into one vendor, so the 
tendency has been to  avoid Oracle for the non-DB pieces. I 
think the enterprise-scale AS are so  complex that it is hard to 
compare feature-for-feature.   Dennis Williams 
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA  Lifetouch, Inc.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   -Original Message-  Sent: 
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:54 PM  To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LI havent dug into 9iAS yet, but 
I want to learn atleast one of the major web  servers. It 
appears that WebLogic and Websphere dominate the market. It also 
 appears that 9iAS is tedious and has a poor design relative to these 
other  two.   What do you think? How 
different are the webservers? If I pick up one, does  it 
translate?   Also, what functionality does 9iAS add that 
Apache does not have in and of  itself? I was able to run 9i Forms 
with just apache and OC4J?   Ryan  
 --  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net  
--  Author: Ryan  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
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be removed from). You may  also send the HELP command for 
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 Author: Ryan

dba age

2003-07-23 Thread AK




Now this one is difficult folks ..

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba 
?

-ak

RE: 9iAS vs. Weblogic and Websphere

From past experiences, the only client I've seen using 9iAS is the one being
Oracle wall to wall (and Oracle was a partner in the business, a big
bio-tech startup).
All the other clients running on Oracle databases were using BEA Weblogic or
IBM Websphere.


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Ryan
I'm no Java expert and am willing to be corrected. My understanding
is that Apache is just a web page server. The better comparison is between
Tomcat and 9iAS. Since most web hits are for just static pages, you may even
chose to have Apache front-end your 9iAS. Over Tomcat, 9iAS is J2EE
compliant. Also more scalability. And if your company isn't ready for open
source, 9iAS offers a big vendor to yell at.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


what functionality does 9iAS give you over just running apache?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:59 AM


 Ryan
My impression is that 9iAS probably has the best database interface.
The
 others look pretty primitive in comparison, basically just JDBC when you
get
 to the bottom. Also, note that Oracle is currently running a special to
lure
 WebLogic and Websphere users away. I think in this confusing, evolving
 market for application servers, a lot depends on your company's approach.
If
 your company is highly committed to Oracle, then 9iAS is the logical
choice.
 If you are highly committed to IBM, then Websphere is the logical choice.
In
 our case we had to persuade people to move away from MS, and the argument
 was that you wouldn't be locked into one vendor, so the tendency has been
to
 avoid Oracle for the non-DB pieces. I think the enterprise-scale AS are so
 complex that it is hard to compare feature-for-feature.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:54 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 I havent dug into 9iAS yet, but I want to learn atleast one of the major
web
 servers. It appears that WebLogic and Websphere dominate the market. It
also
 appears that 9iAS is tedious and has a poor design relative to these other
 two.

 What do you think? How different are the webservers? If I pick up one,
does
 it translate?

 Also, what functionality does 9iAS add that Apache does not have in and of
 itself? I was able to run 9i Forms with just apache and OC4J?

 Ryan

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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RE: trace for error number

2003-07-23 Thread Ehresmann, David

Ok,  use this I found on metalink:

event=1722 trace name errorstack level 3 

what about the level 3?  What are my options here?
thanks.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


List,

I need to trace for a specific Oracle error number,  ORA-01722.  Any
suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks,

David Ehresmann 
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Re: How to tell if a given session is coming across a db link?

2003-07-23 Thread Tanel Poder

Hi!

I would look at program column in v$session... it should show oracle or
something similar there if the connection is initiated by another Oracle
server.

Tanel.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:39 PM


 I have a task to pull v$session info from various databases and insert
into
 a history table.
 I'd like to exclude those sessions that are connected to a database via a
db
 link.
 Is there an easy way to identify such sessions?


 Thanks.

 
 Jeffery D Thomas
 DBA
 Thomson Information Services
 Thomson, Inc.

 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Indy DBA Master Documentation available at:
 http://gkmqp.tce.com/tis_dba
 


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RE: Securing the Database Structure

2003-07-23 Thread Goulet, Dick

Hussain,

As someone who has to support third party, purchased applications it is my 
firm belief that you want to make this as transparent as possible.  Why, because no 
data system purchased today will operate in a vacuum.  They have to be integrated into 
the remainder of the applications that the purchaser has. May I take a case in point?  

We've recently acquired a copy of SmartTime, a labor tracking application.  
Well this application needs data from both our HR system and ERP system as well as 
feeding data back into ERP.  Now the vendor is not going to create those interfaces, 
but they did provide help in identifying the tables in their application that that we 
need to interface to.  Without being able to see the database definitions we would not 
have been able to do that  consequently would have gone elsewhere.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi all,
When you develop a software and you intend to sell it, are there any ways of saving 
your database structure. Because obviously we don't give the fmb's, we only give the 
executable. But to run the software we need to have the database and there are ways by 
which the database structure can be seen, imp/exp is an example for one. I know by 
getting the database structure it would be very difficult to interpret the system, but 
structure is the core of the whole thing. So I wanted to ask what are the steps that 
are followed when you are packaging your software to sell and what are the security 
measures to protect your application, forms, database structures, etc.
Plus any good method/utility to encrypt the contents of a batch file but at the same 
time allowing it to be executed.

Thanks and regards,

Hussain


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RE: DB_BLOCK_SIZE??? Survey.

Syed
   The statement I received from an Oracle instructor is that the ability to
handle blocks of a different size are in 9i for one purpose and one purpose
only -- so you can bring a transportable tablespace from another database.
Specifically, if you have databases with several block sizes you will be
able to move data to a data warehouse for reporting. I don't think Oracle
has even tested how well this feature works for other purposes. You might
get some performance gain with multiple block sizes, but you might also lose
performance if Oracle has to perform a lot of internal translation. 

Chris
The common wisdom is to use 8K block_size for OLTP and either 16 or 32K
for data warehouses. I've been creating new databases with these sizes.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi Chris,

Be default Oracle 9i create database with 4k block_size ,you can choose
differently types of block_size on tablespace level. You may like to look
into tablespace block_sizes. I have a 4 k block size in one of our
production database but it allows me to have different block size on
tablespace level.

Regards,


Syed Ahmed
Database Administrator
Technical Services. RSS
Rogers Communications Inc.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:http://www.rogers.com


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I just started at my new DBA job, and I have been reviewing their database
installation procedure.  I noticed that they create all their databases with
a 4K block size.  This is for Oracle 9.2 on AIX 5.2.  It has been my general
understanding that most sites these days use 8K db_block_size as a minumum
for general OLTP databases.  And some sites are considering 16K db block
size tablespace for indexes.  

At any rate, does anyone have any pro/con thoughts on the smaller 4K db
block size???

Also, if your interested, please reply back to me DIRECTLY with your site's
DB_BLOCK_SIZEs for OLTP/DWs.  I promise to tally the results and share them
with everyone.  

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Many thanks.
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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Goulet, Dick




Now 
that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this list will 
resist answering.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
DBA 

  -Original Message-From: AK 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: dba 
  age
  Now this one is difficult folks .
  
  what is average age of an experienced oracle dba 
  ?
  
  -ak

Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Joe Testa

insert into dba_tbl values('41');  --- thats mine

do this for all of the experienced dbas

select avg(age) from dba_tbl;

:)

joe

AK wrote:

Now this one is difficult folks ..
 
what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
-ak


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RE: dba age




Experience can be tricky, I know experienced DBA and developpers with a 
lot of years of experience and they're still junior in my mind, they're almost 
at the same level as when they started with Oracle.

On the 
other hands,I know some people who have been DBA for 3 years and are very 
very good...





Stephane Paquette
Administrateur 
de bases de donnees
Database 
Administrator
Standard 
Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. 
(514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of AKSent: 
  Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: dba age
  Now this one is difficult folks ..
  
  what is average age of an experienced oracle dba 
  ?
  
  -ak

RE: logon trigger to start tracing

2003-07-23 Thread Paul Baumgartel


--- Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Paul,
 
 remember it is a trigger ... so it runs under executing user's privs
 ... 
 
 1. everyone needs a direct grant for execute on dbms_session

Been there.

 2. there needs to be a public synonym for dbms_session 

Done that.

 3. yell Bingo!

Did so...after receiving the correct answer!  ;-)

Thanks, those are all valid points.

 
 Raj
 

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script

2003-07-23 Thread AK




where can i find a script to find segments which 
can't extend due tolow of space in tablespace .

-ak

RE: Securing the Database Structure

Hussain
   I think Joe and Dick both make excellent points. The key to understanding
your product probably doesn't lie with your database structure. Most vendors
do this well enough just by having obscurely named tables and columns. Most
sites buy Oracle because they expect to use it on an enterprise scale. If
your application will be used in a very closed manner (no reason for the
customer DBA to maintain it), then perhaps you should consider providing an
embedded database with your application. This would also save you and your
customer a lot of money.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I wouldnt be concerned with hiding the db structure, look at 
peopleslop(aka peoplesoft), the structure is there for all to see but 
how its implemented is all on program code, yes you can eventually 
figure out how its all related(took me 6 months on one of the versions 
but I figured out all of those PS tables and how there were inter-related).

joe


Hussain Ahmed Qadri wrote:

Hi all,
When you develop a software and you intend to sell it, are there any ways
of saving your database structure. Because obviously we don't give the
fmb's, we only give the executable. But to run the software we need to have
the database and there are ways by which the database structure can be seen,
imp/exp is an example for one. I know by getting the database structure it
would be very difficult to interpret the system, but structure is the core
of the whole thing. So I wanted to ask what are the steps that are followed
when you are packaging your software to sell and what are the security
measures to protect your application, forms, database structures, etc.
Plus any good method/utility to encrypt the contents of a batch file but at
the same time allowing it to be executed.

Thanks and regards,

Hussain


  


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Data Management Consulting
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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Gogala, Mladen




I'm 
only thilteen.

Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855 
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  -Original Message-From: AK 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: dba 
  age
  Now this one is difficult folks ..
  
  what is average age of an experienced oracle dba 
  ?
  
  -ak

RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Rachel Carmichael

simple answer:

old enough to know better


:)


--- Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Now that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this
 list will resist answering.
  
 
 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 Now this one is difficult folks ..
  
 what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
  
 -ak
 
 


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Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Gudmundur Josepsson

 what is average age of an experienced oracle dba 

42?

Þessi póstur var sendur með vefpósti mi, http://www.mi.is


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Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Ron Rogers

We all know that the universal answer that requires a number is ...42

I just had my 58th. Gray hair, kids, grand kids and 7 years from
retirement.
Ron

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/23/03 11:54AM 
Now this one is difficult folks ..

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak
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Re: script

2003-07-23 Thread Joan Hsieh

AK, this is a very old script. 

set pagesize 999



spool extent.lst
ttitle 'Database Objects that will have Trouble Throwing Extents'

column owner format a10;
column segment_name format a22;
column segment_type format a10;
column tablespace_name format a14;
column next_extent format 999,999,999;

SELECT seg.owner, seg.segment_name,
   seg.segment_type, seg.tablespace_name,
   t.next_extent
   FROM sys.dba_segments seg,
sys.dba_tables   t
WHERE  (seg.segment_type = 'TABLE'
  ANDseg.segment_name = t.table_name
  ANDseg.owner= t.owner
  ANDNOT EXISTS
(select tablespace_name
   from dba_free_space free
  where free.tablespace_name =  t.tablespace_name
and bytes   =  t.next_extent ))
UNION
SELECT seg.owner, seg.segment_name,
   seg.segment_type, seg.tablespace_name,
   DECODE (seg.segment_type,
   'CLUSTER',  c.next_extent)
   FROM sys.dba_segments seg,
sys.dba_clusters c
WHERE   (seg.segment_type = 'CLUSTER'
  ANDseg.segment_name = c.cluster_name
  ANDseg.owner= c.owner
  ANDNOT EXISTS
(select tablespace_name
   from dba_free_space free
  where free.tablespace_name =  c.tablespace_name
and bytes   =  c.next_extent ))
UNION
SELECT seg.owner, seg.segment_name,
   seg.segment_type, seg.tablespace_name,
   DECODE (seg.segment_type,
   'INDEX',i.next_extent )
   FROM sys.dba_segments seg,
sys.dba_indexes  i
WHERE  (seg.segment_type = 'INDEX'
  ANDseg.segment_name = i.index_name
  ANDseg.owner= i.owner
  ANDNOT EXISTS
(select tablespace_name
   from dba_free_space free
  where free.tablespace_name =  i.tablespace_name
and bytes   =  i.next_extent ))
UNION
SELECT seg.owner, seg.segment_name,
   seg.segment_type, seg.tablespace_name,
   DECODE (seg.segment_type,
   'ROLLBACK', r.next_extent)
   FROM sys.dba_segments seg,
sys.dba_rollback_segs r
where  (seg.segment_type = 'ROLLBACK'
  ANDseg.segment_name = r.segment_name
  ANDseg.owner= r.owner
  ANDNOT EXISTS
(select tablespace_name
   from dba_free_space free
  where free.tablespace_name =  r.tablespace_name
and bytes   =  r.next_extent ))
/
ttitle 'Segments that Are Sitting on the Maximum Extents Allowable '

select  e.owner, e.segment_name, e.segment_type, count(*),
avg(max_extents)
 from  dba_extents e , dba_segments s
where  e.segment_name = s.segment_name
  and  e.owner= s.owner
group by  e.owner, e.segment_name, e.segment_type
having count(*) = avg(max_extents)
/

spool off

 AK wrote:
 
 where can i find a script to find segments which can't extend due
 to low of space in tablespace .
 
 -ak
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April Wells Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA Corporate Systems Amarillo Texas
You will recognize your own path when you
come upon it, because you will suddenly have all the energy and imagination you
will ever need.
~ Jerry Gillies ~

-Original Message-From: Goulet, Dick
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:09
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
dba age
Now
that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this list will
resist answering.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i
DBA

-Original Message-From: AK
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: dba
age
Now this one is difficult folks .

what is average age of an experienced oracle
dba ?

-ak
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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Vergara, Michael (TEM)

...and young enough to go ahead and do it anyway!  Woooh!

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


simple answer:

old enough to know better


:)


--- Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Now that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this
 list will resist answering.
  
 
 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 Now this one is difficult folks ..
  
 what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
  
 -ak
 
 


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Veritas like RMAN?




I found no signs of 
RMAN being used in
any way shape or 
form...

I've been told they 
are doing "hot" backups
using Veritas... 
HOWEVER, the alert log shows
no signs what so 
ever of "alter tablespace
xyz begin/end 
backup"... 

Can it do a good 
backup backing up live
DB files and 
leaving no signs what so
ever that backup 
took place.

Is Veritas capable 
of this? 

If so, why is there 
a Veritas interface
to 
RMAN???

Confusion, 
confusion...


Michael Alan Kline, Sr.PrincipalConsultantBusiness to Business 
Solutions, LLCPhone: 804-744-1545 Cell: 804-314-6262ICQ: 1009605, 
975313Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.b2bsol.com

RE: DB_BLOCK_SIZE??? Survey.

2003-07-23 Thread M Rafiq

I fully agree with Dennis. Even some applications like Oracle Finanacials 
11i requires that min db_block size should be 8K. About 32K size, may be 
some OS not support that size but 16K is much better for OLAP environment 
and we have been using 8K for OLAT and 16K for OLAP/DSS.

Regards
Rafiq


Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:09:31 -0800
Syed
   The statement I received from an Oracle instructor is that the ability 
to
handle blocks of a different size are in 9i for one purpose and one purpose
only -- so you can bring a transportable tablespace from another database.
Specifically, if you have databases with several block sizes you will be
able to move data to a data warehouse for reporting. I don't think Oracle
has even tested how well this feature works for other purposes. You might
get some performance gain with multiple block sizes, but you might also lose
performance if Oracle has to perform a lot of internal translation.

Chris
The common wisdom is to use 8K block_size for OLTP and either 16 or 32K
for data warehouses. I've been creating new databases with these sizes.
Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hi Chris,

Be default Oracle 9i create database with 4k block_size ,you can choose
differently types of block_size on tablespace level. You may like to look
into tablespace block_sizes. I have a 4 k block size in one of our
production database but it allows me to have different block size on
tablespace level.
Regards,

Syed Ahmed
Database Administrator
Technical Services. RSS
Rogers Communications Inc.
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:http://www.rogers.com
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I just started at my new DBA job, and I have been reviewing their database
installation procedure.  I noticed that they create all their databases with
a 4K block size.  This is for Oracle 9.2 on AIX 5.2.  It has been my general
understanding that most sites these days use 8K db_block_size as a minumum
for general OLTP databases.  And some sites are considering 16K db block
size tablespace for indexes.
At any rate, does anyone have any pro/con thoughts on the smaller 4K db
block size???
Also, if your interested, please reply back to me DIRECTLY with your site's
DB_BLOCK_SIZEs for OLTP/DWs.  I promise to tally the results and share them
with everyone.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Many thanks.
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RE: dba age

AK - Don't fear, you may feel young now, but working as a DBA ages you
really fast. The other day the discussion drifted into chopping fingers for
making mistakes. Before safety couplings were adopted, the experience of
railroad brakemen was judged by the number of fingers missing. Maybe we
should all raise hands.
 
Few people take on the DBA role straight out of college. A production DBA at
a large site is a critical role. I feel that communication is a vital part
of the job, and the more roles you've had prior to becoming a DBA, the
better. If you've worked as a developer for a few years, you'll be able to
better understand developers and better communicate with them. They'll still
think you're scum, but at least you'll understand why they feel that way. If
you have worked as a user you'll understand how/if users think. A few people
have even moved from the DBA role to other jobs. I don't understand it,
something about being the focus of everyone's frustration, intolerable
hours, inescapable pressure.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
 -Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Now this one is difficult folks ..
 
what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
-ak

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RE: Veritas like RMAN?

Michael
Don't discount the possibility that they are just using Veritas to back
up everything on the Oracle server. Not correct, but I've seen people that
know nothing about Oracle do that.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I found no signs of RMAN being used in
any way shape or form...
 
I've been told they are doing hot backups
using Veritas... HOWEVER, the alert log shows
no signs what so ever of alter tablespace
xyz begin/end backup... 
 
Can it do a good backup backing up live
DB files and leaving no signs what so
ever that backup took place.
 
Is Veritas capable of this? 
 
If so, why is there a Veritas interface
to RMAN???
 
Confusion, confusion...
 
 
Michael Alan Kline, Sr.
Principal Consultant
Business to Business Solutions, LLC
Phone: 804-744-1545  Cell: 804-314-6262
ICQ: 1009605, 975313
Email:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:
http://www.b2bsol.com/ www.b2bsol.com

 

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RE: Securing the Database Structure

2003-07-23 Thread Jesse, Rich

Coming from the perspective of one who has needed to get to a DB structure
of a purchased app, you might have some luck using obfuscation.  Ever try to
reverse engineer an 800-table schema with no RI?  It can be done (we've done
it), but with the help of the app source.

One other 3rd-party app has implemented some of Oracle's object types and
such in 8i, and the schemas don't seem to be able to be successfully
exp/imp'd.  Then again, I didn't try that hard...

Rich


Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA


 -Original Message-
 From: Hussain Ahmed Qadri [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:54 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Securing the Database Structure
 
 
 Hi all,
 When you develop a software and you intend to sell it, are 
 there any ways of saving your database structure. Because 
 obviously we don't give the fmb's, we only give the 
 executable. But to run the software we need to have the 
 database and there are ways by which the database structure 
 can be seen, imp/exp is an example for one. I know by getting 
 the database structure it would be very difficult to 
 interpret the system, but structure is the core of the whole 
 thing. So I wanted to ask what are the steps that are 
 followed when you are packaging your software to sell and 
 what are the security measures to protect your application, 
 forms, database structures, etc.
 Plus any good method/utility to encrypt the contents of a 
 batch file but at the same time allowing it to be executed.
 
 Thanks and regards,
 
 Hussain
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RE: script

2003-07-23 Thread Stephen Lee


For something a little different, play with the attached free.sql script.

-Original Message-

where can i find a script to find segments which can't extend due to low of
space in tablespace .

-ak



free.sql
Description: Binary data

Re[2]: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Robert Eskridge

I think that a typical DBA ages so fast that simple measuring
techniques are suspect

-rje



J insert into dba_tbl values('41');  --- thats mine

J do this for all of the experienced dbas

J select avg(age) from dba_tbl;

J :)

J joe


J AK wrote:

 Now this one is difficult folks ..
  
 what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
  
 -ak


J -- 
J Joseph S Testa
J Chief Technology Officer 
J Data Management Consulting
J p: 614-791-9000
J f: 614-791-9001


J -- 
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-rje

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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Purcell, Sandra




chronologically i'm 
50
mentally i'm 
15
physically i'm 
90

  -Original 
  Message-From: AK [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 
  Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 10:55 To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: dba age
  Now this one is difficult folks ..
  
  what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
  
  -ak

RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Adams, Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130)




For an apricot, I am old. For a head of lettuce, even more 
so.
But for a mountain I am not even 
begun in years. 
However, for a man I am just right. 

Matt Adams - GE Appliances - 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]It will make sense when you stop thinking 
logically,and start thinking Oracle-ly - Jim Droppa 

-Original Message-From: Goulet, Dick 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:09 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: dba 
age
Now 
that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this list will 
resist answering.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
DBA 

  -Original Message-From: AK 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: dba 
  age
  Now this one is difficult folks .
  
  what is average age of an experienced oracle dba 
  ?
  
  -ak

Re: Securing the Database Structure

2003-07-23 Thread Pete Finnigan

Hi

It isn't possible to hide the structure of the database successfully, as
your customers DBA will access the database and can query its structure
- tables, indexes, constraints etc from the dictionary and work out how
quite a lot of your tables interact. That said if you want to make it
difficult then obfuscate all the table names, index names etc, i.e.
don't use a table called EMPLOYEE_SALARIES use a table called say HH1.
Do not name columns where there is a join with the same name in two
different tables. ensure you wrap any PL/SQL and make sure your
applications source cannot be read. To make it harder to infer joins
between tables don't implement constraints in the database do it in the
application (bad). 

Anyone with some little effort should be able to construct an entity
diagram either manually or using a tool. You cannot wrap views so joins
can be extrapolated from those, also setting trace in the database or
SQL*Net trace for a period of time and use of your application would
extract enough SQL to give someone a good idea of how your entity
relationships work..

I think you are wasting your time to try and hide the database
structure!

hth

kind regards

Pete
-- 
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email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web site: http://www.petefinnigan.com - Oracle security audit specialists
Book:Oracle security step-by-step Guide - see http://store.sans.org for details.

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Re: Veritas like RMAN?

2003-07-23 Thread Rachel Carmichael

you don't have backups. Oracle will only support recovery from hot
backups taken when the tablespaces are not flagged as in backup mode if
you do the backup via RMAN.

Technically, if you are very very lucky, the moon is in the seventh
house and Jupiter has aligned with Mars, you *MIGHT* be able to use the
hot backup taken without RMAN. If and only if there is absolutely NO
activity whatsoever in the database from the time the backup starts
until when it finishes. Even then, recovery is still not supported.


--- Michael Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I found no signs of RMAN being used in
 any way shape or form...
 
 I've been told they are doing hot backups
 using Veritas... HOWEVER, the alert log shows
 no signs what so ever of alter tablespace
 xyz begin/end backup... 
 
 Can it do a good backup backing up live
 DB files and leaving no signs what so
 ever that backup took place.
 
 Is Veritas capable of this? 
 
 If so, why is there a Veritas interface
 to RMAN???
 
 Confusion, confusion...
 
 
 Michael Alan Kline, Sr.
 Principal Consultant
 Business to Business Solutions, LLC
 Phone: 804-744-1545  Cell: 804-314-6262
 ICQ: 1009605, 975313
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.b2bsol.com
 
 


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Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread M Rafiq

Tanel.

I am personally impressed with your pratical knowledge, based on your 
responses to this list. Mostly DBA's particpating on this list is 35+ (may 
in the range of 40-45). Only one DBA is 42 years old for the last 5 years. 
Guess who Gogala Mladen(don't shoot me as I am your fan). That is his 
favorite/magic figure 42. However, he can tell his real age if he wants.

Regards
Rafiq


Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:09:56 -0800
Hi!

Age isn't the most important criteria for good DBA.
Ability to analyze issues and foresee possible consequences of your actions 
are the most important ones, at least from my point of view.

Personally, I just turned 25. Whether I'm experienced or not, I won't 
speculate, but so far I've lost no data and have kept all my customers happy 
;)

Tanel.
  - Original Message -
  From: AK
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:54 PM
  Subject: dba age
  Now this one is difficult folks ..

  what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

  -ak

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RE: Veritas like RMAN?

2003-07-23 Thread Sarnowski, Chris


Can they point to backup sets from which you
can test recovery? As someone else mentioned,
that's the crucial issue.

There are a couple of possibilities:
Veritas can do volume mirroring, for example.
I haven't used this at the Veritas level but we
do something similar on our Hitachi SAN (to generate
a development image, not backup). The SAN mirror
instructions say that we have to put the DB in hot
backup mode and quiesce the database during the
split, which seems a bit like belt and suspenders
to me (how can you get a split block if the database
is quiesced?) but that's what we do. I'd guess Veritas
mirroring would require at least one of the two steps,
both of which should show up in the alert log.


 From: Michael Kline [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:39 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Veritas like RMAN?
 
 
 I found no signs of RMAN being used in
 any way shape or form...
 
 I've been told they are doing hot backups
 using Veritas... HOWEVER, the alert log shows
 no signs what so ever of alter tablespace
 xyz begin/end backup... 
 
 Can it do a good backup backing up live
 DB files and leaving no signs what so
 ever that backup took place.
 
 Is Veritas capable of this? 
 
 If so, why is there a Veritas interface
 to RMAN???
 
 Confusion, confusion...
 



LEGAL NOTICE:
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Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Ron Thomas


42.  And missing a few experience fingers...

Ron Thomas
Hypercom, Inc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. -- Kernighan


   
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  com  To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent by: cc: 
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:  dba age   
   
  .com 
   
   
   
   
   
  07/23/2003 09:54 
   
  AM   
   
  Please respond to
   
  ORACLE-L 
   
   
   
   
   




Now this one is difficult folks ...

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak



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Re[2]: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Robert Eskridge

So, your answer is 51.667?  Sounds about right.

-rje

P chronologically i'm 50
P mentally i'm 15
P physically i'm 90

P -Original Message-
P Sent: Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 10:55 
P To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


P Now this one is difficult folks ..
 
P what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
P -ak




-rje

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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Jesse, Rich

King Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: Man.
KA: Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?
D: I'm 37!
KA: What?
D: I'm 37, I'm not old!
KA: Well, I can't just call you 'man'.
D: Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
KA: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
D: You never bothered to find out, did you?

At least I'm only on the cusp of 35.  And I have 6 years experience with
Oracle.  I've lost whole databases, even, thanks to WindohsNoT running
Oracle7.  My experience tells me not to put Oracle on Windohs.  YMMV.  I've
experienced upgrades, patches, and migrations -- oh my!  I've experienced
the joy that isn't OiD 9.0.2.  I've experienced a developer who could have
sworn he was in the test DB.  I've experienced successful recovery with zero
data loss and no downtime during core business hours.  I've experienced
AutoRAID.  I've experienced BAARF.  I've experienced Intel, Alpha, SPARC,
and PA-RISC.  Duhvelopers have experienced my wrath.  I have experienced my
own wrath during moments of Duh.  I've experienced this list, with it's many
helpful and some not so helpful members.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced.  Like lunch today.

Standing in for Paul Harvey,
I'm Rich Jesse.  Good Day!


Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Now this one is difficult folks .
 
what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
-ak
-- 
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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Boivin, Patrice J

DBAs are at an intersection, the place where all the data is stored!

Eveyrone wants the DBA to do something for them... and it's never fast
enough.

: )

Patrice.
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Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Tanel Poder

Hi!

Thanks for the compliment :) But I'm still complete loser compared to some
other guys here, so there's much work to be done.

I think the 42 might very well come from the Hitchhikers Guide To Galaxy
book, if you know what I mean ;)

Tanel.

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:54 PM


 Tanel.

 I am personally impressed with your pratical knowledge, based on your
 responses to this list. Mostly DBA's particpating on this list is 35+ (may
 in the range of 40-45). Only one DBA is 42 years old for the last 5 years.
 Guess who Gogala Mladen(don't shoot me as I am your fan). That is his
 favorite/magic figure 42. However, he can tell his real age if he wants.


 Regards
 Rafiq




 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:09:56 -0800

 Hi!

 Age isn't the most important criteria for good DBA.
 Ability to analyze issues and foresee possible consequences of your
actions
 are the most important ones, at least from my point of view.

 Personally, I just turned 25. Whether I'm experienced or not, I won't
 speculate, but so far I've lost no data and have kept all my customers
happy
 ;)

 Tanel.
- Original Message -
From: AK
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:54 PM
Subject: dba age


Now this one is difficult folks ..

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak

 _
 The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

 --
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 --
 Author: M Rafiq
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convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Freeman Robert - IL

Well I *AM* 37, and I don't feel old. I'm actually the youngest DBA in my
group, and it seems like I'm always the youngest wherever I go...

Robert




-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 7/23/2003 12:14 PM

King Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: Man.
KA: Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?
D: I'm 37!
KA: What?
D: I'm 37, I'm not old!
KA: Well, I can't just call you 'man'.
D: Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
KA: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
D: You never bothered to find out, did you?

At least I'm only on the cusp of 35.  And I have 6 years experience
with
Oracle.  I've lost whole databases, even, thanks to WindohsNoT running
Oracle7.  My experience tells me not to put Oracle on Windohs.  YMMV.
I've
experienced upgrades, patches, and migrations -- oh my!  I've
experienced
the joy that isn't OiD 9.0.2.  I've experienced a developer who could
have
sworn he was in the test DB.  I've experienced successful recovery with
zero
data loss and no downtime during core business hours.  I've experienced
AutoRAID.  I've experienced BAARF.  I've experienced Intel, Alpha,
SPARC,
and PA-RISC.  Duhvelopers have experienced my wrath.  I have experienced
my
own wrath during moments of Duh.  I've experienced this list, with it's
many
helpful and some not so helpful members.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced.  Like lunch today.

Standing in for Paul Harvey,
I'm Rich Jesse.  Good Day!


Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Now this one is difficult folks .
 
what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
-ak
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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Odland, Brad




I'm 
94

I 
started working with Oracle back in the late thirties on the Rexall 
"Wonder-Math" Mechanical Computing Device. Writing SQL with a machine not unlike 
a player piano, we did, for hours on end, then we would feed the boxes of 
program reels into the Wonder-Math and stand withoiler cans and masking 
tape at the ready.

Those 
were woolly times, yes indeed. My dear friend Martin and I wouldrun 
reports for managementand load data until the wee hours then skidaddle off 
to the local "speakeasy" for a few drops of heaven and some song. We would sing 
Camp Town Races and Harvest Moon untilour voices were horse with the 
strain and quite giddy with drink.. Martin wasparticularly adapt at 
convincing the young sporting ladies to sing with us, he was quite a wolf that 
Martin was After we tired and became hungry and when our minds were in a 
state of pleasant and dizzy euphoria we would break our morning fast with some 
rashers of bacon, fresh eggs,rhubarb pie, pots of hot black coffee and 
witty repartee with the waitress at the Darcie's Hop-Inn. A quick nap and back 
we went toreorganize the tablespaces on the wonder-math and other sundry 
administration tasks. Oh those weresimpler days...we were poor then but 
quite happy with our position and we lived life with all the zest of a young man 
free to explore world of database administration.

We 
were quite young. Yes quite

::zz::

  -Original Message-From: Purcell, Sandra 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:45 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  dba age
  chronologically i'm 
  50
  mentally i'm 
  15
  physically i'm 
  90
  
-Original 
Message-From: AK 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 10:55 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: dba 
age
Now this one is difficult folks ..

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak

RE: Re[2]: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Purcell, Sandra

exactly...  

now, i have to say, there is the option to round up/down when necessary
depending on how many gray hairs are showing through the hair color
application and available room lighting...

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 12:15 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


So, your answer is 51.667?  Sounds about right.

-rje

P chronologically i'm 50
P mentally i'm 15
P physically i'm 90

P -Original Message-
P Sent: Wednesday, 23 July, 2003 10:55 
P To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


P Now this one is difficult folks ..
 
P what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
P -ak




-rje

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RE: Veritas like RMAN?

I was afraid of that

--
Performing Remote Agent backup

Media Name: Media created 7/18/2003 08:00:06 PM
Backup of \\FAILSAFE\V$ 
Backup set #11 on storage media #1
Backup set description: DailyBackup
Backup Type: FULL - Back Up Files - Reset Archive Bit
Backup started on 7/19/2003 at 12:59:44 AM.

Backup completed on 7/19/2003 at 1:11:05 AM.
Backed up 31 files in 4 directories.
Processed 5,785,060,909 bytes in  11 minutes and  21 seconds.
Throughput rate: 486.1 MB/min
--

This doesn't give me a warm feeling. Alert log shows NOTHING.

This is a manufacturing site where the click of a bar code
reader is moving materials from one location to another and
that may or may not occur at any time. I'm not positive that
one could say that this would never happen. Every time I've
been in there looking around random jobs are coming into
dbms_jobs in what appears to be all hours of the night.

They have an export, but I think that's it. If they take
a backup on Sunday, I think everything is shutdown. It
MIGHT be good if the moon is right.

Maks.

-Original Message-
Rachel Carmichael
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


you don't have backups. Oracle will only support recovery from hot
backups taken when the tablespaces are not flagged as in backup mode if
you do the backup via RMAN.

Technically, if you are very very lucky, the moon is in the seventh
house and Jupiter has aligned with Mars, you *MIGHT* be able to use the
hot backup taken without RMAN. If and only if there is absolutely NO
activity whatsoever in the database from the time the backup starts
until when it finishes. Even then, recovery is still not supported.


--- Michael Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I found no signs of RMAN being used in
 any way shape or form...
 
 I've been told they are doing hot backups
 using Veritas... HOWEVER, the alert log shows
 no signs what so ever of alter tablespace
 xyz begin/end backup... 
 
 Can it do a good backup backing up live
 DB files and leaving no signs what so
 ever that backup took place.
 
 Is Veritas capable of this? 
 
 If so, why is there a Veritas interface
 to RMAN???
 
 Confusion, confusion...
 
 
 Michael Alan Kline, Sr.
 Principal Consultant
 Business to Business Solutions, LLC
 Phone: 804-744-1545  Cell: 804-314-6262
 ICQ: 1009605, 975313
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.b2bsol.com
 
 


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RE: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

Guang - Don't forget to update your init.ora!

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

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Re: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread M Rafiq

Tanel,

Thanks. Frankly speaking I have no idea about 'Hitchhikers Guide To Galaxy 
book' , however, 42 is a favorite/magic  figure on this list.

I think, Jared, now may be getting frustrated with this OFF-topic  
discussion so no further response from my side..

Sorry Jared.

Regards
Rafiq




Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:24:30 -0800
Hi!

Thanks for the compliment :) But I'm still complete loser compared to some
other guys here, so there's much work to be done.
I think the 42 might very well come from the Hitchhikers Guide To Galaxy
book, if you know what I mean ;)
Tanel.

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:54 PM
 Tanel.

 I am personally impressed with your pratical knowledge, based on your
 responses to this list. Mostly DBA's particpating on this list is 35+ 
(may
 in the range of 40-45). Only one DBA is 42 years old for the last 5 
years.
 Guess who Gogala Mladen(don't shoot me as I am your fan). That is his
 favorite/magic figure 42. However, he can tell his real age if he wants.


 Regards
 Rafiq




 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:09:56 -0800

 Hi!

 Age isn't the most important criteria for good DBA.
 Ability to analyze issues and foresee possible consequences of your
actions
 are the most important ones, at least from my point of view.

 Personally, I just turned 25. Whether I'm experienced or not, I won't
 speculate, but so far I've lost no data and have kept all my customers
happy
 ;)

 Tanel.
- Original Message -
From: AK
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:54 PM
Subject: dba age


Now this one is difficult folks ..

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak

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RE: Veritas like RMAN?

They are using RAID5, not mirroring, and the database,
for all the bigger it is needs some SERIOUS tuning.

There are procs that are taking over 1 million disk
i/o's to post a move in inventory..

Again, NOTHING in the alert log, just runs and runs,
no alter tablespace, just redo log changes. And no
bursts of redo log changes during backup time
telling me nothing is being held... Then again,
if I don't see the tablespace go into begin backup,
why would it. Scary...

And of course, you need to be kind to the customer.
They are not sure they need us. Well, perhaps they
are, but not sure why.

Maks.

-Original Message-
Sarnowski, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Can they point to backup sets from which you
can test recovery? As someone else mentioned,
that's the crucial issue.

There are a couple of possibilities:
Veritas can do volume mirroring, for example.
I haven't used this at the Veritas level but we
do something similar on our Hitachi SAN (to generate
a development image, not backup). The SAN mirror
instructions say that we have to put the DB in hot
backup mode and quiesce the database during the
split, which seems a bit like belt and suspenders
to me (how can you get a split block if the database
is quiesced?) but that's what we do. I'd guess Veritas
mirroring would require at least one of the two steps,
both of which should show up in the alert log.


 From: Michael Kline [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:39 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Veritas like RMAN?


 I found no signs of RMAN being used in
 any way shape or form...

 I've been told they are doing hot backups
 using Veritas... HOWEVER, the alert log shows
 no signs what so ever of alter tablespace
 xyz begin/end backup...

 Can it do a good backup backing up live
 DB files and leaving no signs what so
 ever that backup took place.

 Is Veritas capable of this?

 If so, why is there a Veritas interface
 to RMAN???

 Confusion, confusion...




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RE: dba age




Let's 
see... I remember dirt.. I remember UFI.
I 
remember version 4.1.0 that ran on DOS... PC, PC-XT..
Oracle since 1983...

Good 
loaded question.

Maks.

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Goulet, DickSent: 
  Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:09 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: dba age
  Now 
  that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this list will 
  resist answering.
  
  Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
  DBA 
  
-Original Message-From: AK 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: dba 
age
Now this one is difficult folks .

what is average age of an experienced oracle 
dba ?

-ak

Re: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

2003-07-23 Thread Jared . Still

Why are you converting an RBS tablespace?

If just an exercise, it's understandable.

If for a production database, just create a new tablespace, new rollback
segments, and then drop the old ones.


Jared






Guang Mei [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 07/23/2003 10:24 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: 
Subject:convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them 
online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

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RE: Veritas like RMAN?

2003-07-23 Thread Josh Collier




If there is no evidence in the alert log, and no backups/file 
copies/incarnations are registered in rman, my bet is that the database isn't 
backed up.-Original Message-From: DENNIS WILLIAMS 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Veritas like 
RMAN?Michael Don't discount the possibility 
that they are just using Veritas to backup everything on the Oracle server. 
Not correct, but I've seen people thatknow nothing about Oracle do 
that.Dennis WilliamsDBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBALifetouch, 
Inc.[EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original Message-Sent: 
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:39 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LI found no signs of RMAN being used inany way shape or 
form...I've been told they are doing "hot" backupsusing Veritas... 
HOWEVER, the alert log showsno signs what so ever of "alter 
tablespacexyz begin/end backup"...Can it do a good backup backing up 
liveDB files and leaving no signs what soever that backup took 
place.Is Veritas capable of this?If so, why is there a Veritas 
interfaceto RMAN???Confusion, confusion...Michael Alan 
Kline, Sr.Principal ConsultantBusiness to Business Solutions, 
LLCPhone: 804-744-1545 Cell: 804-314-6262ICQ: 1009605, 
975313Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:http://www.b2bsol.com/ 
www.b2bsol.com--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net--Author: DENNIS 
WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Anderson, Brian

I claim 36, making me the youngest DBA here.
Of course, myself is the oldest DBA here at 36.
And I is the average of our ages.

Me, myself, and I work pretty well together, if you ignore all the arguments.


 -Original Message-
 From: Freeman Robert - IL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:35 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: dba age
 
 
 Well I *AM* 37, and I don't feel old. I'm actually the 
 youngest DBA in my
 group, and it seems like I'm always the youngest wherever I go...
 
 Robert
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Sent: 7/23/2003 12:14 PM
 
 King Arthur: Old woman!
 Dennis: Man.
 KA: Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?
 D: I'm 37!
 KA: What?
 D: I'm 37, I'm not old!
 KA: Well, I can't just call you 'man'.
 D: Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
 KA: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
 D: You never bothered to find out, did you?
 
 At least I'm only on the cusp of 35.  And I have 6 years 
 experience
 with
 Oracle.  I've lost whole databases, even, thanks to WindohsNoT running
 Oracle7.  My experience tells me not to put Oracle on Windohs.  YMMV.
 I've
 experienced upgrades, patches, and migrations -- oh my!  I've
 experienced
 the joy that isn't OiD 9.0.2.  I've experienced a developer who could
 have
 sworn he was in the test DB.  I've experienced successful 
 recovery with
 zero
 data loss and no downtime during core business hours.  I've 
 experienced
 AutoRAID.  I've experienced BAARF.  I've experienced Intel, Alpha,
 SPARC,
 and PA-RISC.  Duhvelopers have experienced my wrath.  I have 
 experienced
 my
 own wrath during moments of Duh.  I've experienced this list, 
 with it's
 many
 helpful and some not so helpful members.
 
 And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced.  Like lunch today.
 
 Standing in for Paul Harvey,
 I'm Rich Jesse.  Good Day!
 

 
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RE: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

Yes, I can.

But I want to call this tablespace RBS because I use this name in all my
other dbs. Just try to be consistent with naming convension.

Guang

-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Why are you converting an RBS tablespace?

If just an exercise, it's understandable.

If for a production database, just create a new tablespace, new rollback
segments, and then drop the old ones.


Jared






Guang Mei [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 07/23/2003 10:24 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173)
steps?


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them
online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

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RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Gogala, Mladen

I was born on 1/10/1961 in Zagreb, Croatia, which makes me 42 years
of age. My horoscope sign is Ursus (6'4, 260 lbs, used to do greko-roman
wrestling, I can still run 5 miles and lift myself on a chin-up bar). People
sometimes confuse my age with the answer to certain question from the Doglas
Adamses Hitchiker's Guiide To Galaxy. Don't panic!

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Tanel.

I am personally impressed with your pratical knowledge, based on your 
responses to this list. Mostly DBA's particpating on this list is 35+ (may 
in the range of 40-45). Only one DBA is 42 years old for the last 5 years. 
Guess who Gogala Mladen(don't shoot me as I am your fan). That is his 
favorite/magic figure 42. However, he can tell his real age if he wants.


Regards
Rafiq




Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:09:56 -0800

Hi!

Age isn't the most important criteria for good DBA.
Ability to analyze issues and foresee possible consequences of your actions 
are the most important ones, at least from my point of view.

Personally, I just turned 25. Whether I'm experienced or not, I won't 
speculate, but so far I've lost no data and have kept all my customers happy

;)

Tanel.
   - Original Message -
   From: AK
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:54 PM
   Subject: dba age


   Now this one is difficult folks ..

   what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

   -ak

_
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
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RE: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

Do I need to? I thought after all the steps I still have the same rollback
segment names (RBS01-06). The only difference is they will be in LMT now.

Guang

-Original Message-
DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Guang - Don't forget to update your init.ora!

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Guang Mei
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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index rebuild

2003-07-23 Thread AK




Does index rebuild generates new statistics as well 
? How does that can hit performance intermediately if I want to rebuild few 
indexes daily just to finish everything in 5 days .

-ak

RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Gogala, Mladen




Wow, I 
remember UFI, iapgen and RPT/RPF, but I started in 1989. Do you remember 
SQLPME?

Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855 
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  -Original Message-From: Michael Kline 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:44 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  dba age
  Let's see... I remember dirt.. I remember 
  UFI.
  I 
  remember version 4.1.0 that ran on DOS... PC, PC-XT..
  Oracle since 1983...
  
  Good loaded question.
  
  Maks.
  
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Goulet, 
DickSent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:09 PMTo: 
Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: dba 
age
Now that's a LOADED question which I'm sure many a individual on this 
list will resist answering.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i 
DBA 

  -Original Message-From: AK 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 
  11:55 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: dba age
  Now this one is difficult folks 
.
  
  what is average age of an experienced oracle 
  dba ?
  
  -ak

RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread April Wells

Title: RE: dba age





Dude, I am 37 and the OLDEST Oracle DBA here... only one DBA older in the company!


April Wells
Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
Corporate Systems
Amarillo Texas


You will recognize your own path when you come upon it, because you will suddenly have all the energy and imagination you will ever need.

~ Jerry Gillies ~




-Original Message-
From: Freeman Robert - IL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: dba age



Well I *AM* 37, and I don't feel old. I'm actually the youngest DBA in my
group, and it seems like I'm always the youngest wherever I go...


Robert





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 7/23/2003 12:14 PM


King Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: Man.
KA: Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?
D: I'm 37!
KA: What?
D: I'm 37, I'm not old!
KA: Well, I can't just call you 'man'.
D: Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
KA: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
D: You never bothered to find out, did you?


At least I'm only on the cusp of 35. And I have 6 years experience
with
Oracle. I've lost whole databases, even, thanks to WindohsNoT running
Oracle7. My experience tells me not to put Oracle on Windohs. YMMV.
I've
experienced upgrades, patches, and migrations -- oh my! I've
experienced
the joy that isn't OiD 9.0.2. I've experienced a developer who could
have
sworn he was in the test DB. I've experienced successful recovery with
zero
data loss and no downtime during core business hours. I've experienced
AutoRAID. I've experienced BAARF. I've experienced Intel, Alpha,
SPARC,
and PA-RISC. Duhvelopers have experienced my wrath. I have experienced
my
own wrath during moments of Duh. I've experienced this list, with it's
many
helpful and some not so helpful members.


And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced. Like lunch today.


Standing in for Paul Harvey,
I'm Rich Jesse. Good Day!



Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Now this one is difficult folks .

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak
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Author: Jesse, Rich
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

Guang
Yes, I noticed that after I posted my reply. Typically if this was a
production system I would tend to create new rollback segments, online the
new segments, offline the old segments, then change the init.ora. Sometime
later I would drop the old segments and tablespace, maybe after a backup
cycle has occurred. Now, you will say that is unnecessary, and technically
you would be right. But one of the rules you learn by being a DBA for a long
time is to never delete anything until you are absolutely certain you won't
need it. Always have a rollback plan (no pun intended). It is also a good
idea to back up the control file to trace anytime you make changes in
database structure. With my method, if you have one of those oh crap
moments, you can quickly recover. This may be overkill in this specific
instance, but there are many other circumstances where you may end up being
awfully glad you were a little cautious.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Do I need to? I thought after all the steps I still have the same rollback
segment names (RBS01-06). The only difference is they will be in LMT now.

Guang

-Original Message-
DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Guang - Don't forget to update your init.ora!

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Guang Mei
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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(or the

RE: dba age

2003-07-23 Thread Ron Rogers

Robert,
 Be proud. 37 and published. very good work.
Ron

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/23/03 01:34PM 
Well I *AM* 37, and I don't feel old. I'm actually the youngest DBA in
my
group, and it seems like I'm always the youngest wherever I go...

Robert




-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 7/23/2003 12:14 PM

King Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: Man.
KA: Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?
D: I'm 37!
KA: What?
D: I'm 37, I'm not old!
KA: Well, I can't just call you 'man'.
D: Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
KA: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
D: You never bothered to find out, did you?

At least I'm only on the cusp of 35.  And I have 6 years
experience
with
Oracle.  I've lost whole databases, even, thanks to WindohsNoT running
Oracle7.  My experience tells me not to put Oracle on Windohs.  YMMV.
I've
experienced upgrades, patches, and migrations -- oh my!  I've
experienced
the joy that isn't OiD 9.0.2.  I've experienced a developer who could
have
sworn he was in the test DB.  I've experienced successful recovery
with
zero
data loss and no downtime during core business hours.  I've
experienced
AutoRAID.  I've experienced BAARF.  I've experienced Intel, Alpha,
SPARC,
and PA-RISC.  Duhvelopers have experienced my wrath.  I have
experienced
my
own wrath during moments of Duh.  I've experienced this list, with
it's
many
helpful and some not so helpful members.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced.  Like lunch today.

Standing in for Paul Harvey,
I'm Rich Jesse.  Good Day!


Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Now this one is difficult folks .
 
what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?
 
-ak
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net 
-- 
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Author: Freeman Robert - IL
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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-- 
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

I see. Thanks.

Guang

-Original Message-
DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 2:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Guang
Yes, I noticed that after I posted my reply. Typically if this was a
production system I would tend to create new rollback segments, online the
new segments, offline the old segments, then change the init.ora. Sometime
later I would drop the old segments and tablespace, maybe after a backup
cycle has occurred. Now, you will say that is unnecessary, and technically
you would be right. But one of the rules you learn by being a DBA for a long
time is to never delete anything until you are absolutely certain you won't
need it. Always have a rollback plan (no pun intended). It is also a good
idea to back up the control file to trace anytime you make changes in
database structure. With my method, if you have one of those oh crap
moments, you can quickly recover. This may be overkill in this specific
instance, but there are many other circumstances where you may end up being
awfully glad you were a little cautious.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Do I need to? I thought after all the steps I still have the same rollback
segment names (RBS01-06). The only difference is they will be in LMT now.

Guang

-Original Message-
DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Guang - Don't forget to update your init.ora!

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

Anything I am missing?

TIA.

Guang

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Re: index rebuild

2003-07-23 Thread Tanel Poder




Hi!

For index, yes, if you use: alter index 
name rebuild compute statistics;

But don't rebuild your indexes daily, it's an 
expensive operation... and you won't gain much from it anyway.

Tanel.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  AK 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:14 
  PM
  Subject: index rebuild
  
  Does index rebuild generates new statistics as 
  well ? How does that can hit performance intermediately if I want to rebuild 
  few indexes daily just to finish everything in 5 days .
  
  -ak

RE: convert RBS tablespace from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?

2003-07-23 Thread Thomas Day


How will you make sure that there are no active segments in your current
rollback segments before you remove the datafiles with the OS?  Even after
you take the rollback segments off-line, Oracle will continue to use them
as long as they have an active segment.

BTW --- One way to help to avoid the ORA-01555 when you are committing
across an open cursor is to take the rollback segment that that cursor is
using off-line.  No one else will come in a step on the free segment but
your session will continue to process just fine until you close the cursor.
At least that's been my experience.



   

  DENNIS WILLIAMS  

  DWILLIAMS   To:  Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  @LIFETOUCH.COM  cc: 

  Sent by: Subject: RE: convert RBS tablespace 
from DMT to LMT (Oracle 8173) steps?
  ml-errors

   

   

  07/23/2003 02:29 

  PM   

  Please respond   

  to ORACLE-L  

   

   





Guang
Yes, I noticed that after I posted my reply. Typically if this was a
production system I would tend to create new rollback segments, online the
new segments, offline the old segments, then change the init.ora. Sometime
later I would drop the old segments and tablespace, maybe after a backup
cycle has occurred. Now, you will say that is unnecessary, and technically
you would be right. But one of the rules you learn by being a DBA for a
long
time is to never delete anything until you are absolutely certain you won't
need it. Always have a rollback plan (no pun intended). It is also a good
idea to back up the control file to trace anytime you make changes in
database structure. With my method, if you have one of those oh crap
moments, you can quickly recover. This may be overkill in this specific
instance, but there are many other circumstances where you may end up being
awfully glad you were a little cautious.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Do I need to? I thought after all the steps I still have the same rollback
segment names (RBS01-06). The only difference is they will be in LMT now.

Guang

-Original Message-
DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Guang - Don't forget to update your init.ora!

Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi:

I need to convert RBS tablespace (used for rollback segments) from DMT to
LMT on a 24x7 production machine (Solaris 2.8, Oracle 8173). Here are the
steps I am thinking of taking:

1. create a new rbslmt tablespace

2. create new rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) in
rbslmt ts , set them online

3. alter all old rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) offline;

4. Drop all old rollback segments;

5. alter old RBS tablespace offline

6. Drop old RBS tablespace

7. Remove old RBS tablespace's datafiles from OS

8. Create new RBS tablespace as LMT

9. Create new rollback segments (RBS01, ... RBS06) in RBS, set them online;

10. alter rollback segments (RBSlmt01, RBSlmt02, ... RBSlmt 06) offline,
then drop them;

11. alter tablespace rbslmt offline

12. drop tablespace rbslmt

13. Remove tablespace rbslmt's datafiles from OS.

RE: dba age

Same here, I'm 37 and the younguest one (also the one with the most hair !)


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
Freeman Robert - IL
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well I *AM* 37, and I don't feel old. I'm actually the youngest DBA in my
group, and it seems like I'm always the youngest wherever I go...

Robert




-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 7/23/2003 12:14 PM

King Arthur: Old woman!
Dennis: Man.
KA: Sorry. Old man! Whose castle is that?
D: I'm 37!
KA: What?
D: I'm 37, I'm not old!
KA: Well, I can't just call you 'man'.
D: Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
KA: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
D: You never bothered to find out, did you?

At least I'm only on the cusp of 35.  And I have 6 years experience
with
Oracle.  I've lost whole databases, even, thanks to WindohsNoT running
Oracle7.  My experience tells me not to put Oracle on Windohs.  YMMV.
I've
experienced upgrades, patches, and migrations -- oh my!  I've
experienced
the joy that isn't OiD 9.0.2.  I've experienced a developer who could
have
sworn he was in the test DB.  I've experienced successful recovery with
zero
data loss and no downtime during core business hours.  I've experienced
AutoRAID.  I've experienced BAARF.  I've experienced Intel, Alpha,
SPARC,
and PA-RISC.  Duhvelopers have experienced my wrath.  I have experienced
my
own wrath during moments of Duh.  I've experienced this list, with it's
many
helpful and some not so helpful members.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced.  Like lunch today.

Standing in for Paul Harvey,
I'm Rich Jesse.  Good Day!


Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Now this one is difficult folks .

what is average age of an experienced oracle dba ?

-ak
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RE: dba age