RE: Re: char(1) VS varchar2(1)

[Rajesh Dayal]

Extremely precious info. 
Thanks a lot for sharing this !!!

Rajesh Dayal
Senior Oracle DBA (OCP 8,8i,9i)
International Information Technology Company LLC


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Monday, November 03, 2003 7:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Fwd: Re: char(1) VS varchar2(1)

Trailing columns with NULL values do not occupy any space, not even a length
byte.

Non-trailing columns with NULL values have a constant value of 0xFF (255) in
the length byte consuming just the one byte.

Column values with a length of 0-254 bytes have one length byte, and values
with a length greater than 254 bytes have 3 bytes, where the first byte is
the constant 0xFE (254) and the remaining 2 bytes actually have the length.

For example:

=
SQL> create table xyz
  2  (
  3 c1 number,
  4 c2 number,
  5 c3 number,
  6 c4 number,
  7 c5 number
  8  ) tablespace tools;

Table created.

SQL> insert into xyz values (1, null, 1, null, 99);

1 row created.

SQL> insert into xyz values (2, null, 2, null, 99);
1 row created.

SQL> select dump(c1) c1, dump(c2) c2, dump(c3) c3,
  2  dump(c4) c4, dump(c5) c5 from xyz;

C1  C2C3  C4C5
--- - --- -
-
Typ=2 Len=2: 193,2  NULL  Typ=2 Len=2: 193,2  NULL  Typ=2 Len=4:
195,100,100,100
Typ=2 Len=2: 193,3  NULL  Typ=2 Len=2: 193,3  NULL  Typ=2 Len=4:
195,100,100,100

SQL> select file_id,block_id,blocks from dba_extents where
 2   segment_name='XYZ';

   FILE_ID   BLOCK_ID BLOCKS
-- -- --
 2   5857  8

SQL> commit;

Commit complete.

SQL> alter system checkpoint;

System altered.

=

OK, the checkpoint made sure that everything was flushed to the datafile.
Now, we can look at things using the UNIX "od" command:

$ dd if=/u01/oradata/PRD/tools_02.dbf bs=8192 skip=5858 count=1 | \
= od -x

000 0602008016e2002f5a390104
020 08090100217b002f5a03
040 90e4000203000008002f
060 048b01000040056416000002
100 
120 00010002
140 00161f801f6a1f6a00021f90
160 1f80
200 
*
0017720 2c010502
0017740 c103ff02c103ff04c36464642c010502
0017760 c102ff02c102ff04c36464645a390601
002

OK, now remember that data rows fill from the end of the block, working
backwards, not from the beginning.

So, at the end of the block, we see the 4-byte block tailer ("5a39 0601").
Just before that, we see the first row:

2c 01 05 02 c1 02 ff 02 c1 02 ff 04 c3 64 64 64
   +++--++--+--+
row hdr  c1   c2 c3   c4 c5

Then, just prior to that, we see the second row:


2c 01 05 02 c1 03 ff 02 c1 03 ff 04 c3 64 64 64
   +++--++--+--+
row hdr  c1   c2 c3   c4 c5

The third byte (0x05) of each row indicates that five columns comprise the
row.

The numbers are represented in "100s-complement" which is a form of base-100
arithmetic.  For column C1, the first byte (hex 0x02) is the length byte.
The next byte (hex 0xC1 or decimal 193) is both the sign and the exponent,
while the next byte (hex 02 again) is the mantissa or significant digits in
100s-complement.  To avoid a value of 0x0, they add one to the value, so the
value of "1" is represented as 0x02.

So in the first row, the value of "1" in column C1 is shown by the three
bytes 0x02c102.  The null value in column C2 is shown by the one byte 0xff.
The value of "1" in column C3 is shown by the three bytes 0x02c102.  The
null value in column C4 is shown by the one byte 0xff.  The value of
"99" in column C5 is shown by the five bytes 0x04c3646464.

-Tim


on 11/2/03 4:44 PM, Tanel Poder at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Just for the record, every column in a table has a length byte (or three,
> depending on column size). This works so even in clusters, where rows are
> split vertically, but column structures remain the same.
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:04 PM
> 
> 
>> I have believed for a while that a varchar2(1) would have included a
> 'length byte', making it more wasteful of storage than a char(1) but in fact
> the two are strictly identical storage-wise :
>> 
>

Re: char(1) VS varchar2(1)

[Tim Gorman]

Trailing columns with NULL values do not occupy any space, not even a length
byte.

Non-trailing columns with NULL values have a constant value of 0xFF (255) in
the length byte consuming just the one byte.

Column values with a length of 0-254 bytes have one length byte, and values
with a length greater than 254 bytes have 3 bytes, where the first byte is
the constant 0xFE (254) and the remaining 2 bytes actually have the length.

For example:

=
SQL> create table xyz
  2  (
  3 c1 number,
  4 c2 number,
  5 c3 number,
  6 c4 number,
  7 c5 number
  8  ) tablespace tools;

Table created.

SQL> insert into xyz values (1, null, 1, null, 99);

1 row created.

SQL> insert into xyz values (2, null, 2, null, 99);
1 row created.

SQL> select dump(c1) c1, dump(c2) c2, dump(c3) c3,
  2  dump(c4) c4, dump(c5) c5 from xyz;

C1  C2C3  C4C5
--- - --- -
-
Typ=2 Len=2: 193,2  NULL  Typ=2 Len=2: 193,2  NULL  Typ=2 Len=4:
195,100,100,100
Typ=2 Len=2: 193,3  NULL  Typ=2 Len=2: 193,3  NULL  Typ=2 Len=4:
195,100,100,100

SQL> select file_id,block_id,blocks from dba_extents where
 2   segment_name='XYZ';

   FILE_ID   BLOCK_ID BLOCKS
-- -- --
 2   5857  8

SQL> commit;

Commit complete.

SQL> alter system checkpoint;

System altered.

=

OK, the checkpoint made sure that everything was flushed to the datafile.
Now, we can look at things using the UNIX "od" command:

$ dd if=/u01/oradata/PRD/tools_02.dbf bs=8192 skip=5858 count=1 | \
= od -x

000 0602008016e2002f5a390104
020 08090100217b002f5a03
040 90e4000203000008002f
060 048b01000040056416000002
100 
120 00010002
140 00161f801f6a1f6a00021f90
160 1f80
200 
*
0017720 2c010502
0017740 c103ff02c103ff04c36464642c010502
0017760 c102ff02c102ff04c36464645a390601
002

OK, now remember that data rows fill from the end of the block, working
backwards, not from the beginning.

So, at the end of the block, we see the 4-byte block tailer ("5a39 0601").
Just before that, we see the first row:

2c 01 05 02 c1 02 ff 02 c1 02 ff 04 c3 64 64 64
   +++--++--+--+
row hdr  c1   c2 c3   c4 c5

Then, just prior to that, we see the second row:


2c 01 05 02 c1 03 ff 02 c1 03 ff 04 c3 64 64 64
   +++--++--+--+
row hdr  c1   c2 c3   c4 c5

The third byte (0x05) of each row indicates that five columns comprise the
row.

The numbers are represented in "100s-complement" which is a form of base-100
arithmetic.  For column C1, the first byte (hex 0x02) is the length byte.
The next byte (hex 0xC1 or decimal 193) is both the sign and the exponent,
while the next byte (hex 02 again) is the mantissa or significant digits in
100s-complement.  To avoid a value of 0x0, they add one to the value, so the
value of "1" is represented as 0x02.

So in the first row, the value of "1" in column C1 is shown by the three
bytes 0x02c102.  The null value in column C2 is shown by the one byte 0xff.
The value of "1" in column C3 is shown by the three bytes 0x02c102.  The
null value in column C4 is shown by the one byte 0xff.  The value of
"99" in column C5 is shown by the five bytes 0x04c3646464.

-Tim


on 11/2/03 4:44 PM, Tanel Poder at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Just for the record, every column in a table has a length byte (or three,
> depending on column size). This works so even in clusters, where rows are
> split vertically, but column structures remain the same.
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:04 PM
> 
> 
>> I have believed for a while that a varchar2(1) would have included a
> 'length byte', making it more wasteful of storage than a char(1) but in fact
> the two are strictly identical storage-wise :
>> 
>> SQL> create table t(c1 char(1),
>>   2 c2 varchar2(1));
>> 
>> Table created.
>> 
>> SQL> insert into t values('A', 'B');
>> 
>> 1 row created.
>> 
>> SQL> select vsize(c1), dump(c1), vsize(c2), dump(c2)
>>   2  from T;
>> 
>>  VSIZE(C1)
>> --
>> DUMP(C1)
>> 

Re: I wanna know how Oracle uses file organization in their DB

[Vladimir Begun]

There is quite some important difference between theoretical definition of the B*/+
trees and their implementation, in particular underflow and overflow could be
implemented not as defined -- a trade off, as usually -- however those two operations
are major ones in the index data management. Knuth's book does not reflect such nuances
as concurrent operations against {B, B+, B*}-trees in particular, at least in the
chapter of the book Cary mentioned. I think, some more information can be found on acm.
Thai, I do not think that such documents are openly available -- never read those :),
but, definitely, knowledge of some basic principles would help -- so start from the
Knuth's books.
regards,
--
Vladimir Begun
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
Tanel Poder wrote:
Hi!

If I recall correctly, a simple B-tree leafs didn't have pointers to last
and next leaf in them, whilst B+tree and B*-tree did...
Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:44 PM



A B-tree is not a binary tree. A binary tree node has 0, 1, or 2
children. A B-tree is a multiway tree in which a node can have
arbitrarily many children.
Oracle implements a thing that's similar to a B*-tree. A B*-tree is
structurally indistinguishable from a B-tree. They differ only in
properties of the insertion and deletion methods used to manipulate
them. For complete information, see Knuth's "The Art of Computer
Programming, Volume III: Sorting and Searching," pp473-480.
Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com
>>
-Original Message-
Sinardy Xing
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hi Thai,

B-tree is short for binary tree, Indexing method make use of Binary
search function to fast retrieve your records, therefore require sorted
records.
B+ tree (I don't know this one, never heard)
Go to www.Oracle.com download the document for free.

Reading order:
1. Concept
2. SQLPlus
3. DB Admin
4. Backup and Recovery
5. Network
After you finish all of these you have basic skill, you can be an Oracle
DBA.
Good luck.

Sinardy

-Original Message-
Sent: 31 October 2003 11:49
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hello all,

I am looking for documents saying how Oracle uses file organizations
like B-tree, B+ tree, heap file, index file . in their database.
If you know where I can get those documentations, could you let me know?

Thank you.

Thai


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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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RE: Outsourcing's dirty secret

[Jared Still]

Ok, please take this offline or to an OT list.

Thanks,

Jared ( the list owner )

On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 07:44, hrishy wrote:
> Hi Frank
> 
> why do you think i should be banned...:-)..everybody
> is entitled to his opinion...
> 
> say i go on a consulting assignement to a company that
> hosts por sites should i reccommend him Oracle10g or
> mysql..Mysql right..but being a oracle DBA and to save
> my job i can always recommend oracel 10g..nothing
> wrong..
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
> 
> regards
> Hrishy
> 
> 
>  --- Pettinato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is
> totally inappropriate. You should be banned
> > from the list. The
> > reality is that companies only look at the bottom
> > line and not the long term
> > effects of hiring anyone who can spell Oracle right
> > on thier resume.
> > 
> > Frank
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > hrishy
> > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:19 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Hi All
> > 
> > DBA's all here hmm...well if i were the CFO i would
> > have been lookin for the fast=true parameter if i
> > were
> > bald i would have been looking for a pill or a cream
> > that would give me hairs overnight..the time of
> > instant nirvana has come :-)..software bpo call
> > centeres they are all same..today the jobs are being
> > moved to india becaz the CEO's see that they are
> > able
> > to save 10$ on paper. or maybe just becoz your
> > competitor is doin so..capital always moves in
> > serach
> > of labour thats the bottom line ..:-) i read
> > argentina
> > programmers are cheaper then indians well
> > hehehe..hehee ...:-)..argentians woman are they more
> > beautifulthe author in my opinion has provided a
> > skewewed version of outsourcing ..the real
> > competition
> > for india will come from ETHOPIA i beelive
> > ..provided
> > the ethopians start learning english...:-) and will
> > start working for food :-)
> > 
> > as for us we americans we can come out with a dirty
> > trick like not sharing information on fear of
> > getting
> > sacked with indian programmers :-)
> > 
> > regards
> > Hrishy
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  --- "Loughmiller, Greg"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > not only
> > salries, but job opportunities as well:-)
> > >
> > > greg
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > > But sure as hell does drive salaries down over
> > here.
> > >
> > > On 10/30/2003 03:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> > > > The perception of outsourcing has been that you
> > > can send your work
> > > > offshore,
> > > > and get it done cheaper, with higher quality.
> > > >
> > > > I think that this article helps to dispel that
> > as
> > > a myth.  It may or may
> > > > not be
> > > > less expensive, it may or may not be better.
> > > >
> > > > Jared
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Jamadagni, Rajendra"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >  10/30/2003 09:49 AM
> > > >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > > ORACLE-L
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > cc:
> > > > Subject:RE: Outsourcing's dirty
> > > secret
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What is also unfortunate that the company X
> > which
> > > outsourced its project
> > > > to India, didn't do its job right ... If you
> > just
> > > want the cheapest Rolex,
> > >
> > > > you can't complain about its quality later on. I
> > > am not saying this
> > > > couldn't have happened, whatever happened is
> > > unfortunate, but I am just
> > > > saying that the company didn't understand CYA
> > > sufficiently, it is just a
> > > > blame game now.
> > > >
> > > > C'mon ... I think that article is one side of
> > the
> > > coin.
> > > > Raj
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > 
> > > > Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
> > > > All Views expressed in this email are strictly
> > > personal.
> > > > QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion
> > > is an art !
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:59 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > List - If a manager seems to be contemplating
> > > outsourcing, you might want
> > > > to
> > > > post this. Unless you work for an outsourcer.
> > ;-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/Hidden_Costs_of_IT_Outso
> > > urcing.html
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Williams
> > > > DBA
> > > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > **
> > > > This e-mail message is confidential, intended
> > only
> > > for the named
> > > > recipient(s) above and may contain information
> > > that is pri

Re: B&R Benchmarks

[Joe Testa]

I know when i'd worked on that size, we use the concept of multiple 
mirrors of the data and broke the mirror, and used that as the backup(it 
went to tape also but we never had to recover from tape) :)

joe

Murali Vallath wrote:

Does anyone have any benchmark numbers for a B&R operation of a  3TB  
Oracle database?  I understand this depends on several environmental 
conditions.  If anyone of you has had a need to do a restore of 3-4TB 
Oracle database and would not mind sharing some of your thoughts that 
would be wonderful.
 
Thanks,
 
Murali Vallath
 

Murali Vallath

*"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  Mahatma Gandhi.*


Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears 
 


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B&R Benchmarks

[Murali Vallath]

Does anyone have any benchmark numbers for a B&R operation of a  3TB  Oracle database?  I understand this depends on several environmental conditions.  If anyone of you has had a need to do a restore of 3-4TB Oracle database and would not mind sharing some of your thoughts that would be wonderful.
 
Thanks,
 
Murali Vallath
 Murali Vallath 
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  Mahatma Gandhi.
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

Re: Table partitioning Oracle 9.2

[Tanel Poder]

Hi!

No, data blocks below partitions high-high water mark can never be used for
another segment.
Unformatted blocks above (high)-high water mark can be used for another
segment only when you trim the extent(s) using alter table deallocate unused
(but this feature is useful only if you have lots of unformatted space in
your segment for some reason).

So, if your business allow this table to be offline for a while, I'd
recommend the following approach after you've archived your old data (some
features here require 9i and syntax is written from memory, might have small
errors in it):

1) archive your unneeded data
2) create table temp as select * from your_partitioned_tab partition P_1
where ;  (you can use nologging &
parallel here if you want)
3) alter table your_partitioned_tab truncate partition P_1 drop storage
update global indexes; (can use parallel here as well)
  - this will truncate your old partition and release any extents above it's
minextents)
4) alter table your_partitioned_tab exchange partition P_1 with table TEMP
excluding indexes without validation; (just exchanges the TEMP table's
segment storing only the required 5% of data with old, now truncated
segment).
5) drop table TEMP; (the 5% of required data was "moved" back to
your_partitioned_tab in step 4.
6) rebuild any local indexes on P_1 partition.
7) analyze partition P_1 and it's local indexes, possibly global indexes on
your table as well (btw, you can use "compute statistics" option for
gathering basic statistice when rebuilding indexes...)

You can use nologging in evey operation mentioned above (with the exception
of "update global indexes" in step 3). Of course in case of nologging
operations, your backup strategy has to be "aware" of them.

So, instead of generating lots of redo and undo+redo due huge deletes and
index maintenance you just take this small amount of rows you need, insert
them into a new segment using direct path and nologging (very little undo
and redo), and then just exchange the segments between your "old" and "new"
tables.

Cheers,
Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:24 AM


> --=_MAILER_ATTACH_BOUNDARY1_2003103151337181540383426
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
>
> RDBMS Version: 9.2.0.1.0
> Operating System and Version: Solaris 8
> Error Number (if applicable):
> Product (i.e. SQL*Loader, Import, etc.): Partitioned Table
> Product Version: 9.2.0.1.0
>
> Table partitioning
>
> Hi,
>
> I've a query reg. space usage in context of partitioned tables.
>
> I've a table with 12 partitions P_1 ... P_12. Until now data
> got populated in P_1 upto P_6 and future data will come in P_7 etc.
> If i delete some huge amount of data from P_1 (after archiving it)
> will that freed space be used by future inserts (which happens in
subsequent partitions like P_7 etc).
> Unfortunately, we can't delete all data in partition. We have to keep some
data which account say 5% of total data. ie, we're deleting 95% of data from
a partition. So, will this freed blocks be put to free list and used by
future inserts?
> Data is partitioned by date. So, my query is whether Oracle will put
future data (which belongs to partition P_7 etc.) in space earlier used by
P_1.
>
> Any help from members is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Vikas
>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Indiatimes at
http://email.indiatimes.com
> Buy The Best In BOOKS at http://www.bestsellers.indiatimes.com
> Bid for Air Tickets on Air Sahara Flights. For Best Deals, log on to
http://airsahara.indiatimes.com and Bid Now !
>
> --=_MAILER_ATTACH_BOUNDARY1_2003103151337181540383426
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>
>  
> RDBMS Version: 9.2.0.1.0Operating System and
Version: Solaris 8Error Number (if applicable):
Product (i.e. SQL*Loader, Import, etc.): Partitioned
TableProduct Version: 9.2.0.1.0Table
partitioningHi, I've a query reg. space usage in context of
partitioned tables. I've a table with 12 partitions P_1 ... P_12.
Until now data got populated in P_1 upto P_6 and future data will come
in P_7 etc. If i delete some huge amount of data from P_1 (after
archiving it) will that freed space be used by future inserts (which
happens in subsequent partitions like P_7 etc). Unfortunately, we can't
delete all data in partition. We have to keep some data which account say 5%
of total data. ie, we're deleting 95% of data from a partition. So, will
this freed blocks be put to free list and used by future inserts? Data
is partitioned by date. So, my query is whether Oracle will put fu!
> tu!
> re data (which belongs to partition P_7 etc.) in space earlier used by
P_1.Any help from members is appreciated. Thanks, Vikas

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from
Indiatimes at  http://email.indiatimes.com";>http://email.indiatimes.comBuy The Best In
BOOKS at http://www.bestsellers.indiatimes.com";>http://www.bestsellers.indiatim
es.comBid for Air Tickets on Air Sahara 

Re: I wanna know how Oracle uses file organization in their DB

[Tanel Poder]

Hi!

If I recall correctly, a simple B-tree leafs didn't have pointers to last
and next leaf in them, whilst B+tree and B*-tree did...

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:44 PM


> A B-tree is not a binary tree. A binary tree node has 0, 1, or 2
> children. A B-tree is a multiway tree in which a node can have
> arbitrarily many children.
>
> Oracle implements a thing that's similar to a B*-tree. A B*-tree is
> structurally indistinguishable from a B-tree. They differ only in
> properties of the insertion and deletion methods used to manipulate
> them. For complete information, see Knuth's "The Art of Computer
> Programming, Volume III: Sorting and Searching," pp473-480.
>
>
> Cary Millsap
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
>
> Upcoming events:
> - Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney
> - SQL Optimization 101: 12/8-12 Dallas
> - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
> - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sinardy Xing
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:39 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
> Hi Thai,
>
> B-tree is short for binary tree, Indexing method make use of Binary
> search function to fast retrieve your records, therefore require sorted
> records.
> B+ tree (I don't know this one, never heard)
>
> Go to www.Oracle.com download the document for free.
>
> Reading order:
> 1. Concept
> 2. SQLPlus
> 3. DB Admin
> 4. Backup and Recovery
> 5. Network
>
> After you finish all of these you have basic skill, you can be an Oracle
> DBA.
>
>
> Good luck.
>
> Sinardy
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: 31 October 2003 11:49
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am looking for documents saying how Oracle uses file organizations
> like B-tree, B+ tree, heap file, index file . in their database.
>
> If you know where I can get those documentations, could you let me know?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Thai
>
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Thai.Dang-Vu-1
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Sinardy Xing
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Cary Millsap
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Tanel Poder
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: memory usage by dbw very high

[Tanel Poder]

Thanks Mladen, that was a good tip about linux kernel enhancement, however
OP still uses 2.4.9 as stated in original post.

I just wanted to know whether OP actually sees excessive paging or just
memory being "full", the latter one, as you know, isn't really a problem.

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 5:39 PM


> The whole thing comes as a consequence of using buffered I/O. New linux
> kernels (2.4.18 and later) have new memory management, which allows
> the kernel to grab more memory for buffers in periods of intense I./O
> activity. If you have a very active database on ReiserFS or Ext3, Linux is
> going to try to help you out by allocating more memory for the file system
> buffers, even by stealing pages from the active processes, which will, in
> turn. start paging. The only possible response is to eliminate the
buffered I/
> O and switch to non-buffered I/O. That is not so hard to do.
>
> On 2003.11.01 09:44, Tanel Poder wrote:
> > Just for clarification, do you actually see swapping when starting a new
> > process or you just guess linux would swap because you don't see "free"
> > memory in top output?
> >
> > Tanel.
> >
> >   - Original Message -
> >   From: Sai Selvaganesan
> >   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >   Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 1:34 AM
> >   Subject: RE: memory usage by dbw very high
> >
> >
> >   rich
> >   the ipcs output shows 1.1 gb. so nearly 2 gb(total ram size is 3.08)
is
> > used by non shared memory size.
> >   i went thru all the processes and found dbwr using the max %mem. what
> > could
> > be the reason?
> >   sai
> >
> >   "Jesse, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If I'm not mistaken, this figure includes the size of the shared
memory
> > segment from the SGA. Take the output of the "oracle" line of
"ipcs -a"
> > (hopefully you'll only have one!) and subtract it from the process
size
> > to
> > get a better idea of the non-shared memory size of the process.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:49 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > hi
> >
> > i have a system that has no active users at this point of time. the
> > memory
> > used by the dbw process is very high leading to a lot of swapping
when
> > any
> > process starts.
> > here are the spces
> > version:9.2.0.4
> > os:Linux 2.4.9-e.24smp
> > o/p from top:
> > 1:44pm up 29 days, 23:55, 4 users, load average: 1.73, 1.68, 1.35
> > 132 proces! ses: 131 sleeping, 1 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
> > CPU0 states: 24.4% user, 2.2% system, 0.0% nice, 72.2% idle
> > CPU1 states: 0.5% user, 0.5% system, 0.0% nice, 98.0% idle
> > CPU2 states: 0.0% user, 0.1% system, 0.0% nice, 99.4% idle
> > CPU3 states: 0.3% user, 0.4% system, 0.0% nice, 98.3% idle
> > Mem: 3089964K av, 3083380K used, 6584K free, 846848K shrd, 193448K
> > buff
> > Swap: 2048152K av, 1652K used, 2046500K free 1852468K
> > cached
> > sga size:
> > Total System Global Area 1084823632 bytes
> > Fixed Size 452688 bytes
> > Variable Size 335544320 bytes
> > Database Buffers 738197504 bytes
> > Redo Buffers 10629120 bytes
> > pga aggregate size:700M
> > and ps o/p of dbw process
> > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND
> > oracle 4062 0.0 16.4 1131260 508168 ? S 10:16 0:06
> > ora_dbw0_revenue
> >
> > please advise. what is really going on.
> >
> > thanks
> > sai
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Jesse, Rich
> > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
>
  -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> -- 
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 

Re: char(1) VS varchar2(1)

[Tanel Poder]

Hi!

Just for the record, every column in a table has a length byte (or three,
depending on column size). This works so even in clusters, where rows are
split vertically, but column structures remain the same.

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:04 PM


> I have believed for a while that a varchar2(1) would have included a
'length byte', making it more wasteful of storage than a char(1) but in fact
the two are strictly identical storage-wise :
>
> SQL> create table t(c1 char(1),
>   2 c2 varchar2(1));
>
> Table created.
>
> SQL> insert into t values('A', 'B');
>
> 1 row created.
>
> SQL> select vsize(c1), dump(c1), vsize(c2), dump(c2)
>   2  from T;
>
>  VSIZE(C1)
> --
> DUMP(C1)
> --
--
>  VSIZE(C2)
> --
> DUMP(C2)
> --
--
>  1
> Typ=96 Len=1: 65
>  1
> Typ=1 Len=1: 66
>
>
> SQL>
>
> That said, for the sake of logic I still prefer using CHAR instead of
VARCHAR when the length doesn't vary at all - call it autodocumentation.
VARCHAR2(1) columns - especially when NOT NULL - are unlikely to vary much
in length.
>
> SF
>
> >- --- Original Message --- -
> >From: "Stephane Paquette"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:04:27
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >Some people here are telling me that using char(1)
> >is better than
> >varchar2(1) for a field code.
> >I do not see why.
> >
> >I never used char as it may cause problems when
> >doing some comparisons.
> >
> >Any reasons ?
> >
> >
> >Stephane Paquette
> >Administrateur de bases de donnees
> >Database Administrator
> >Standard Life
> >www.standardlife.ca
> >Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Faroult
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


-- 
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-- 
Author: Tanel Poder
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Performance Issue w/ Blob Data

[Tanel Poder]

Hi!

Maybe it's a delayed commit cleanout issue, due massive deletes, so during
your first select most of your buffers involved in delete have to be cleaned
out (thus becoming dirty and generating extra redo).

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:49 PM


> Good Morning,
>
> I have a database (8.1.7.3 on Sun Solaris 8) that has
> a mixture of tables and indexes in the same
> tablespace. Poor initial setup, but that is starting
> to be addressed. One of the tables has a BLOB data
> type and the LOBSEGMENT is stored in the same
> tablespace as the tables and indexes. The size of the
> tablespace is about 45G. The table with the BLOB had
> about 3 million rows in it before we started to purge
> old data out. After we were done purging I wanted to
> see how many rows were left. I did what I though was a
> harmless SELECT COUNT(*) on the table, and I had to
> kill it after 3 hours without anything getting
> returned. Before the purge, it would return in 10-15
> minutes. In addition, our client base slowed to a
> crawl. But not because my query was running away.
> Memory, cpu and i/o on the server were very low. It
> was almost like only a few sessions at a time were
> getting to the server. My query maxed out at about 3%
> of the cpu.
>
> Using performance monitor didn't show any massive
> usage from the database side either. It was almost
> like the query was just chugging away under the radar,
> but preventing others from doing barely any work. As
> soon as I killed this query, the system went back to
> normal.
>
> We have been experiencing intermittent slowness for
> awhile during normal processing, but have never been
> able to find the silver bullet reason that was
> dragging everyone down. I am wondering if I have
> stumbled onto something here. It could be that
> whatever slowed my query is having the same affect
> anytime a client is doing anything with the table with
> the BLOB data type. Could anyone tell me why this
> SELECT could have taken so long and had such an effect
> on the clients?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> =
>
>
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Larry Hahn
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Tanel Poder
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Outsourcing's dirty secret

[hrishy]

Hi Frank

why do you think i should be banned...:-)..everybody
is entitled to his opinion...

say i go on a consulting assignement to a company that
hosts por sites should i reccommend him Oracle10g or
mysql..Mysql right..but being a oracle DBA and to save
my job i can always recommend oracel 10g..nothing
wrong..

:-)



regards
Hrishy


 --- Pettinato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is
totally inappropriate. You should be banned
> from the list. The
> reality is that companies only look at the bottom
> line and not the long term
> effects of hiring anyone who can spell Oracle right
> on thier resume.
> 
> Frank
> 
> -Original Message-
> hrishy
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:19 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi All
> 
> DBA's all here hmm...well if i were the CFO i would
> have been lookin for the fast=true parameter if i
> were
> bald i would have been looking for a pill or a cream
> that would give me hairs overnight..the time of
> instant nirvana has come :-)..software bpo call
> centeres they are all same..today the jobs are being
> moved to india becaz the CEO's see that they are
> able
> to save 10$ on paper. or maybe just becoz your
> competitor is doin so..capital always moves in
> serach
> of labour thats the bottom line ..:-) i read
> argentina
> programmers are cheaper then indians well
> hehehe..hehee ...:-)..argentians woman are they more
> beautifulthe author in my opinion has provided a
> skewewed version of outsourcing ..the real
> competition
> for india will come from ETHOPIA i beelive
> ..provided
> the ethopians start learning english...:-) and will
> start working for food :-)
> 
> as for us we americans we can come out with a dirty
> trick like not sharing information on fear of
> getting
> sacked with indian programmers :-)
> 
> regards
> Hrishy
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  --- "Loughmiller, Greg"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > not only
> salries, but job opportunities as well:-)
> >
> > greg
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:39 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > But sure as hell does drive salaries down over
> here.
> >
> > On 10/30/2003 03:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > > The perception of outsourcing has been that you
> > can send your work
> > > offshore,
> > > and get it done cheaper, with higher quality.
> > >
> > > I think that this article helps to dispel that
> as
> > a myth.  It may or may
> > > not be
> > > less expensive, it may or may not be better.
> > >
> > > Jared
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Jamadagni, Rajendra"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >  10/30/2003 09:49 AM
> > >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > ORACLE-L
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > cc:
> > > Subject:RE: Outsourcing's dirty
> > secret
> > >
> > >
> > > What is also unfortunate that the company X
> which
> > outsourced its project
> > > to India, didn't do its job right ... If you
> just
> > want the cheapest Rolex,
> >
> > > you can't complain about its quality later on. I
> > am not saying this
> > > couldn't have happened, whatever happened is
> > unfortunate, but I am just
> > > saying that the company didn't understand CYA
> > sufficiently, it is just a
> > > blame game now.
> > >
> > > C'mon ... I think that article is one side of
> the
> > coin.
> > > Raj
> > >
> >
>

> > 
> > > Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
> > > All Views expressed in this email are strictly
> > personal.
> > > QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion
> > is an art !
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:59 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > > List - If a manager seems to be contemplating
> > outsourcing, you might want
> > > to
> > > post this. Unless you work for an outsourcer.
> ;-)
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/Hidden_Costs_of_IT_Outso
> > urcing.html
> > >
> > > Dennis Williams
> > > DBA
> > > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

> > **
> > > This e-mail message is confidential, intended
> only
> > for the named
> > > recipient(s) above and may contain information
> > that is privileged,
> > > attorney work product or exempt from disclosure
> > under applicable law. If
> > > you have received this message in error, or are
> > not the named
> > > recipient(s), please immediately notify
> corporate
> > MIS at (860) 766-2000
> > > and delete this e-mail message from your
> computer,
> > Thank you.
> > >
> >
>

> > **5
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.o

RE: Outsourcing's dirty secret

[Newhouse Eric A AFMC/ITON]

You the man!!!  who has the right to an opinion ?

-Original Message-
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is totally inappropriate. You should be banned from the list. The
reality is that companies only look at the bottom line and not the long term
effects of hiring anyone who can spell Oracle right on thier resume.

Frank

-Original Message-
hrishy
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi All

DBA's all here hmm...well if i were the CFO i would
have been lookin for the fast=true parameter if i were
bald i would have been looking for a pill or a cream
that would give me hairs overnight..the time of
instant nirvana has come :-)..software bpo call
centeres they are all same..today the jobs are being
moved to india becaz the CEO's see that they are able
to save 10$ on paper. or maybe just becoz your
competitor is doin so..capital always moves in serach
of labour thats the bottom line ..:-) i read argentina
programmers are cheaper then indians well
hehehe..hehee ...:-)..argentians woman are they more
beautifulthe author in my opinion has provided a
skewewed version of outsourcing ..the real competition
for india will come from ETHOPIA i beelive ..provided
the ethopians start learning english...:-) and will
start working for food :-)

as for us we americans we can come out with a dirty
trick like not sharing information on fear of getting
sacked with indian programmers :-)

regards
Hrishy




 --- "Loughmiller, Greg"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > not only
salries, but job opportunities as well:-)
>
> greg
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:39 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> But sure as hell does drive salaries down over here.
>
> On 10/30/2003 03:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > The perception of outsourcing has been that you
> can send your work
> > offshore,
> > and get it done cheaper, with higher quality.
> >
> > I think that this article helps to dispel that as
> a myth.  It may or may
> > not be
> > less expensive, it may or may not be better.
> >
> > Jared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jamadagni, Rajendra"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  10/30/2003 09:49 AM
> >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc:
> > Subject:RE: Outsourcing's dirty
> secret
> >
> >
> > What is also unfortunate that the company X which
> outsourced its project
> > to India, didn't do its job right ... If you just
> want the cheapest Rolex,
>
> > you can't complain about its quality later on. I
> am not saying this
> > couldn't have happened, whatever happened is
> unfortunate, but I am just
> > saying that the company didn't understand CYA
> sufficiently, it is just a
> > blame game now.
> >
> > C'mon ... I think that article is one side of the
> coin.
> > Raj
> >
>

> 
> > Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
> > All Views expressed in this email are strictly
> personal.
> > QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion
> is an art !
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:59 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > List - If a manager seems to be contemplating
> outsourcing, you might want
> > to
> > post this. Unless you work for an outsourcer. ;-)
> >
> >
>
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/Hidden_Costs_of_IT_Outso
> urcing.html
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> >
> >
> >
>

> **
> > This e-mail message is confidential, intended only
> for the named
> > recipient(s) above and may contain information
> that is privileged,
> > attorney work product or exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. If
> > you have received this message in error, or are
> not the named
> > recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate
> MIS at (860) 766-2000
> > and delete this e-mail message from your computer,
> Thank you.
> >
>

> **5
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and
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> >
>
-
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> removed fr

RE: Outsourcing's dirty secret

[Pettinato]

This is totally inappropriate. You should be banned from the list. The
reality is that companies only look at the bottom line and not the long term
effects of hiring anyone who can spell Oracle right on thier resume.

Frank

-Original Message-
hrishy
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi All

DBA's all here hmm...well if i were the CFO i would
have been lookin for the fast=true parameter if i were
bald i would have been looking for a pill or a cream
that would give me hairs overnight..the time of
instant nirvana has come :-)..software bpo call
centeres they are all same..today the jobs are being
moved to india becaz the CEO's see that they are able
to save 10$ on paper. or maybe just becoz your
competitor is doin so..capital always moves in serach
of labour thats the bottom line ..:-) i read argentina
programmers are cheaper then indians well
hehehe..hehee ...:-)..argentians woman are they more
beautifulthe author in my opinion has provided a
skewewed version of outsourcing ..the real competition
for india will come from ETHOPIA i beelive ..provided
the ethopians start learning english...:-) and will
start working for food :-)

as for us we americans we can come out with a dirty
trick like not sharing information on fear of getting
sacked with indian programmers :-)

regards
Hrishy




 --- "Loughmiller, Greg"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > not only
salries, but job opportunities as well:-)
>
> greg
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:39 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> But sure as hell does drive salaries down over here.
>
> On 10/30/2003 03:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > The perception of outsourcing has been that you
> can send your work
> > offshore,
> > and get it done cheaper, with higher quality.
> >
> > I think that this article helps to dispel that as
> a myth.  It may or may
> > not be
> > less expensive, it may or may not be better.
> >
> > Jared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jamadagni, Rajendra"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  10/30/2003 09:49 AM
> >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc:
> > Subject:RE: Outsourcing's dirty
> secret
> >
> >
> > What is also unfortunate that the company X which
> outsourced its project
> > to India, didn't do its job right ... If you just
> want the cheapest Rolex,
>
> > you can't complain about its quality later on. I
> am not saying this
> > couldn't have happened, whatever happened is
> unfortunate, but I am just
> > saying that the company didn't understand CYA
> sufficiently, it is just a
> > blame game now.
> >
> > C'mon ... I think that article is one side of the
> coin.
> > Raj
> >
>

> 
> > Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
> > All Views expressed in this email are strictly
> personal.
> > QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion
> is an art !
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:59 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > List - If a manager seems to be contemplating
> outsourcing, you might want
> > to
> > post this. Unless you work for an outsourcer. ;-)
> >
> >
>
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/Hidden_Costs_of_IT_Outso
> urcing.html
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> >
> >
> >
>

> **
> > This e-mail message is confidential, intended only
> for the named
> > recipient(s) above and may contain information
> that is privileged,
> > attorney work product or exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. If
> > you have received this message in error, or are
> not the named
> > recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate
> MIS at (860) 766-2000
> > and delete this e-mail message from your computer,
> Thank you.
> >
>

> **5
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and
> web hosting services
> >
>
-
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> >
> >
> >
>
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message i