Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
There seems to be something that you miss in this discussion: Writing applications! It's very likely very true, that you can use your DBA skills from one database and apply them on another, but many application developers have truely failed to understand that the different databases are very different in how you treat them well. Even the most simple applications that do nothing but 'select * from tab where primary_key=' can be coded efficiently against one database, where the same code will neither perform nor scale if executed against the other database. The converse is fortunately also true: With a well chosen design and well chosen application coding principles, you can write applications that both run, perform and scale on multiple different databases and at the same time are relatively portable between them. At the very least, the well chosen design will allow you to clearly distinguish portable from non-portable code. /Bjørn. -- Bjørn Engsig, Miracle A/S Member of Oak Table Network [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://MiracleAS.dk
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Well, I already started on the SQL Server paper on the R=S+W thing, but I needed help from guys that knew far more than I, and I didn't get it. Here's the idea: The formula can be used on statement, session and system level. So that's 3 x 3 grid where at least the R column and the S column can be filled out (numbers found somewhere in various views) while filling out the W stuff on the three levels is where I (and others, probably) need help. So if someone or somebodies :) can help, we could create the YAPP paper for SQL Server. At least we know what we're hunting, since R-S=W, so it's all about finding as much W as possible, until it about fits. Mogens Broodbakker, Mario wrote: Funny..the last time I spoke with the guys in Redmond, they told me: You don't need that... And OK, I must admit there are a few undocumented wait thingies (viewable with dbcc perfmon according to my old notes..), but they are too cryptic too understand.. I like your R=S+W by the way..You should write a SQLserver paper on that! Mario -Original Message- From: Mogens Nørgaard[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: dinsdag 18 februari 200321:19 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Know 1 database, know them all? Not quite true, as faras I know There's wait stuff in there, although not enough to my taste.There's cpu in there, and the start and stop time, which makes it possible toat least make a crude R = S + W, where the difficult part is breaking down theW into meaningful stuff. A long way to go, but I think they're aware of it.The guys from SQL Server Development I spoke to about it were very interestedin the method and liked the whole idea. But don't forget that I'malways wrong. Mogens Broodbakker, Mario wrote: Mogens, the only problem with your statement about 'oracle myths & king of the new world' is that the only way of looking at SQLServer performance is probably looking at ratio's: there are no wait statistics, there is one(1) latch wait counter though! for the complete system :( (apart from some other almost useless perfmon counters, taht is..) regards, Mario -Original Message- Sent: maandag 17 februari 2003 23:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens Robert Eskridge wrote: Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice German meal... Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster products, it would be hard not to pick the former. F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! F> Ferenc Mantfeld
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
Funny..the last time I spoke with the guys in Redmond, they told me: You don't need that... And OK, I must admit there are a few undocumented wait thingies (viewable with dbcc perfmon according to my old notes..), but they are too cryptic too understand.. I like your R=S+W by the way..You should write a SQLserver paper on that! Mario -Original Message-From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: dinsdag 18 februari 2003 21:19To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Know 1 database, know them all?Not quite true, as far as I know There's wait stuff in there, although not enough to my taste. There's cpu in there, and the start and stop time, which makes it possible to at least make a crude R = S + W, where the difficult part is breaking down the W into meaningful stuff. A long way to go, but I think they're aware of it. The guys from SQL Server Development I spoke to about it were very interested in the method and liked the whole idea.But don't forget that I'm always wrong.MogensBroodbakker, Mario wrote: Mogens, the only problem with your statement about 'oracle myths & king of the new world' is that the only way of looking at SQLServer performance is probably looking at ratio's: there are no wait statistics, there is one(1) latch wait counter though! for the complete system :( (apart from some other almost useless perfmon counters, taht is..) regards, Mario -Original Message- Sent: maandag 17 februari 2003 23:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens Robert Eskridge wrote: Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice German meal... Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster products, it would be hard not to pick the former. F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! F> Ferenc Mantfeld
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
If you are always wrong then you must be right about one thing (being always wrong), so there is reason to be cheerful, at least you got one thing right. -Original Message-From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:19 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Know 1 database, know them all?Not quite true, as far as I know There's wait stuff in there, although not enough to my taste. There's cpu in there, and the start and stop time, which makes it possible to at least make a crude R = S + W, where the difficult part is breaking down the W into meaningful stuff. A long way to go, but I think they're aware of it. The guys from SQL Server Development I spoke to about it were very interested in the method and liked the whole idea.But don't forget that I'm always wrong.Mogens
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Not quite true, as far as I know There's wait stuff in there, although not enough to my taste. There's cpu in there, and the start and stop time, which makes it possible to at least make a crude R = S + W, where the difficult part is breaking down the W into meaningful stuff. A long way to go, but I think they're aware of it. The guys from SQL Server Development I spoke to about it were very interested in the method and liked the whole idea. But don't forget that I'm always wrong. Mogens Broodbakker, Mario wrote: Mogens, the only problem with your statement about 'oracle myths & king of the new world' is that the only way of looking at SQLServer performance is probably looking at ratio's: there are no wait statistics, there is one(1) latch wait counter though! for the complete system :( (apart from some other almost useless perfmon counters, taht is..) regards, Mario -Original Message- Sent: maandag 17 februari 2003 23:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens Robert Eskridge wrote: Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice German meal... Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster products, it would be hard not to pick the former. F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! F> Ferenc Mantfeld
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Actually there are wait stats in SQL server that you can only see with Precise Indepth for SQLServer ;-) "Broodbakker, Mario" wrote: > > Mogens, the only problem with your statement about 'oracle myths & king of the new >world' is that the only way of looking at SQLServer performance is probably looking >at ratio's: there are no wait statistics, there is one(1) latch wait counter though! >for the complete system :( (apart from some other almost useless perfmon counters, >taht is..) > > regards, > Mario > > > -Original Message- > Sent: maandag 17 februari 2003 23:29 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least > regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with > Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know > about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of > the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, > concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As > Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform > on a platform. > > You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it > into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be > king in the new world. > > Mogens > > Robert Eskridge wrote: > > >Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have > >to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform > >them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian > >cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably > >just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice > >German meal... > > > >Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and > >I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one > >having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on > >Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster > >products, it would be hard not to pick the former. > > > > > > > >F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I > >F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, > >F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! > > > >F> Ferenc Mantfeld > > > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Broodbakker, Mario > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Anjo Kolk INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Yeah, that could be :). OK, OK: Angle, angle, angle, angle. Undskyld. Best regards, The Oracle Angels of Denmark (TOAD) Orr, Steve wrote: RE: Know 1 database, know them all? > I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel Angel? Hmmm... is that a veiled reference to the satanic dark side Luke? -Original Message- From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Know 1 database, know them all? I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens >
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
Perhaps a philosophical discussion is in order on the roles of Right Angels versus Obtuse Angels versus Acute Angels. I would hypothesize that Right Angels occupy the uppermost regions of Heaven. Obtuse Angels, being obtuse and mentally slow, are responsible for the enforcement of Murphy's Law. And Acute Angel would most likely be a Cupid or, possibly, a synonym for an Earth Angel. -Original Message- > I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel Angel? Hmmm... is that a veiled reference to the satanic dark side Luke? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stephen Lee INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
Mogens, the only problem with your statement about 'oracle myths & king of the new world' is that the only way of looking at SQLServer performance is probably looking at ratio's: there are no wait statistics, there is one(1) latch wait counter though! for the complete system :( (apart from some other almost useless perfmon counters, taht is..) regards, Mario -Original Message- Sent: maandag 17 februari 2003 23:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens Robert Eskridge wrote: >Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have >to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform >them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian >cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably >just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice >German meal... > >Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and >I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one >having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on >Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster >products, it would be hard not to pick the former. > > > >F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I >F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, >F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! > >F> Ferenc Mantfeld > > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Broodbakker, Mario INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
Title: RE: Know 1 database, know them all? > I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel Angel? Hmmm... is that a veiled reference to the satanic dark side Luke? -Original Message- From: Mogens Nørgaard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Know 1 database, know them all? I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens >
Re[4]: Know 1 database, know them all?
And I'll certainly accept your differing opinion and even agree with it in the realm of installing an application and maintaining it. But I think there are traits in the design phase that are more transcendent. At the risk of torturing a metaphor beyond recognition, if I want to store a meal indefinitely, I want someone well versed in refrigeration and sanitation. If I want it to taste good I want a chef. BTW, cooking is one of my loves. Curiously, my big epiphany for the preparation of Italian, Mexican, Spanish, Vietnamese, Cajun, etc. came out of an Indian cookbook. Yamuna Devi's description of the processes occurring in a chaunk and thus the sequences that needed to be followed turned on a light -- sort of like when I read the YAPP paper. F> I don't want to turn this into an OT post, but I beg to differ. When I F> worked in Siebel Expert Services, I had to be able to install the app on DB2 F> UDB, MS squeal server, and Oracle. BTW, I was hired on the strength on my F> Oracle skills. Well, that turned me into a DBB (DB babysitter) instead of a F> DBA for both DB2 and squeal server, and if there were tasks more complicated F> than write a SQL statement, create a new user, create a table or index, on F> DB2 and MS squeal server, I was nothing more than a DBB, but if there were F> performance problems at a customer with the application running on Oracle, I F> was requested by name to come clean up, where the client would rather wait a F> few days for me to become available than for Siebel to send in a hot shot F> DB2 whiz-kid, who on Oracle became a novice at best. F> Also I should not have chosen cooking as an analogy, because it is one area F> where my blatant ignorance on the subject is easily detected. But I know F> that you take some ingredients, do some stuff to it (chop, slice, dice, F> whatever), optionally heat it and mix it all together, and serve it. Holy F> cow ! I think I have just mastered the art of this cooking thing too, what a F> productive day this is for me. :-) F> Ferenc Mantfeld F> Dreaming costs you nothing. Not dreaming costs you everything. F> - Original Message - F> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> F> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:28 AM >> Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have >> to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform >> them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian >> cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably >> just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice >> German meal... >> >> Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and >> I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one >> having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on >> Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster >> products, it would be hard not to pick the former. >> >> >> >> F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, F> then I >> F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, >> F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! >> >> F> Ferenc Mantfeld -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Eskridge INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Learning the first database is the hardest for me. After which learning the rest was easy. -- Lyndon Tiu Quoting Mogens Nørgaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at > least > regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked > with > Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know > > about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface > instead of > the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many > indexes, > concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. > As > Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to > perform > on a platform. > > You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and > change it > into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and > be > king in the new world. > > Mogens > > Robert Eskridge wrote: > > >Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You > have > >to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and > transform > >them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered > Italian > >cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're > probably > >just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice > >German meal... > > > >Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project > and > >I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, > one > >having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on > >Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack > luster > >products, it would be hard not to pick the former. > > > > > > > >F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian > dish, then I > >F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, > German, > >F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! > > > >F> Ferenc Mantfeld > > > > > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting > services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and > in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You > may > also send the HELP command for other information (like > subscribing). > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Lyndon Tiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]: Know 1 database, know them all?
I don't want to turn this into an OT post, but I beg to differ. When I worked in Siebel Expert Services, I had to be able to install the app on DB2 UDB, MS squeal server, and Oracle. BTW, I was hired on the strength on my Oracle skills. Well, that turned me into a DBB (DB babysitter) instead of a DBA for both DB2 and squeal server, and if there were tasks more complicated than write a SQL statement, create a new user, create a table or index, on DB2 and MS squeal server, I was nothing more than a DBB, but if there were performance problems at a customer with the application running on Oracle, I was requested by name to come clean up, where the client would rather wait a few days for me to become available than for Siebel to send in a hot shot DB2 whiz-kid, who on Oracle became a novice at best. Also I should not have chosen cooking as an analogy, because it is one area where my blatant ignorance on the subject is easily detected. But I know that you take some ingredients, do some stuff to it (chop, slice, dice, whatever), optionally heat it and mix it all together, and serve it. Holy cow ! I think I have just mastered the art of this cooking thing too, what a productive day this is for me. :-) Ferenc Mantfeld Dreaming costs you nothing. Not dreaming costs you everything. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:28 AM > Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have > to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform > them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian > cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably > just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice > German meal... > > Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and > I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one > having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on > Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster > products, it would be hard not to pick the former. > > > > F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I > F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, > F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! > > F> Ferenc Mantfeld > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Robert Eskridge > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ferenc Mantfeld INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
I see it from a slightly different (and probably wrong) angel, at least regarding the performance of things and databases: If you've worked with Oracle databases for some time (and have real experience), and know about the myths and their anti-thesis (use the wait interface instead of the ¤&#% ratio crap, know about RAID-5, don't have too many indexes, concentrate on LIO instead of PIO, etc.,etc.) you'll do quite fine. As Peter Gram once said to me: It's all about getting a database to perform on a platform. You can take your old presentations regarding Oracle myths and change it into a SQL Server or mySQL presentation, change a few details, and be king in the new world. Mogens Robert Eskridge wrote: Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice German meal... Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster products, it would be hard not to pick the former. F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! F> Ferenc Mantfeld -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Know 1 database, know them all?
Curiously, the basics are common across styles of cooking. You have to learn to coax the flavors out of the fresh ingredients and transform them into the proper texture and finish. Once you've mastered Italian cooking, you may not be a top notch German cook, but you're probably just a recipe or two away from being able to produce a very nice German meal... Databases have a certain similarity. If heading an Oracle project and I was given the choice between two people to work on my project, one having been the lead architect for a top notch product based on Sybase, and the other being an OCP that had worked on lack luster products, it would be hard not to pick the former. F> Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I F> must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, F> Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! F> Ferenc Mantfeld -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Robert Eskridge INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Following the same logic. if I learn to cook a good Italian dish, then I must automatically be an expert in preparing top-class Chinese, German, Malay, Hungarian and French cuisine Yeah, right ! Ferenc Mantfeld Dreaming costs you nothing. Not dreaming costs you everything. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:04 AM > Maybe both, LOL. > > Oracle, DB2, Sybase etc are all archetecturly different. > You HAVE to learn each one of them. With Informix, even their OLTP > and DW products are two different animals. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 5:29 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Either the person knows sybase and SQL Server or the drugs kicked in. Much > of the theory is similar but there are enough differences that only RTFMing > and experience can help. I do SQL Server, Oracle and now am learning DB2. > They all claim to be ANSI92 compliant. The problem is that they each have a > different interpretation of ANSI92. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:39 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them > all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Les Ayudo > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Farnsworth, Dave > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Richard Ji > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ferenc Mantfeld INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
Maybe both, LOL. Oracle, DB2, Sybase etc are all archetecturly different. You HAVE to learn each one of them. With Informix, even their OLTP and DW products are two different animals. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 5:29 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Either the person knows sybase and SQL Server or the drugs kicked in. Much of the theory is similar but there are enough differences that only RTFMing and experience can help. I do SQL Server, Oracle and now am learning DB2. They all claim to be ANSI92 compliant. The problem is that they each have a different interpretation of ANSI92. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Les Ayudo INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
LOL!! Thanks for replies guys. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 2:28 AM > Either the person knows sybase and SQL Server or the drugs kicked in. Much of the theory is similar but there are enough differences that only RTFMing and experience can help. I do SQL Server, Oracle and now am learning DB2. They all claim to be ANSI92 compliant. The problem is that they each have a different interpretation of ANSI92. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:39 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them > all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Les Ayudo > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Farnsworth, Dave > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Les Ayudo INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Know 1 database, know them all?
Either the person knows sybase and SQL Server or the drugs kicked in. Much of the theory is similar but there are enough differences that only RTFMing and experience can help. I do SQL Server, Oracle and now am learning DB2. They all claim to be ANSI92 compliant. The problem is that they each have a different interpretation of ANSI92. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Les Ayudo INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
It depends on the level you are looking at it. From a high level, every database does PIO (read/write data to disk), then from the buffer cache (global/local) it does do LIO (accessing buffers). Access to these buffers is synchronized (latching/locking not only on buffers but also on a higher level -> SQL statements). Ofcourse requests need to be forwarded to the database engine. You need network for that (tcp, pipe, shared memory, etc). So I think that each database has these 4 areas: Network - Synchronization - LIO - PIO Ofcourse for each database vendor there are different kind of stats / principles in each area. That is where you have to learn. Optimizing databases is basically reducing PIO, LIO, Synchronization and Network traffic . Anjo. On Saturday 15 February 2003 17:38, you wrote: > I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them > all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? -- Anjo Kolk http://www.oraperf.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Anjo Kolk INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
hello general guideline the SQL language is (almost) the same standardized one everywhere. BUT not everything is always implemented yet everywhere. e.g.: storing binary objects, stored procedures, java vm, sql*plus,storing java procedures (obfuscated or not) ... e.g.: conceptual differences creating an instance in ORACLE - even in sql terms - is pretty much heavier than in MySQL or PostgreSQL. e.g. ORACLE has a lot , MySQL is poorer. administer them both. BUT: regarding to CODD'S rules if you need sql and nothing but sql - these sql machines should ofer you more or less the same. implies ... and the little differences sometimes drive you mad BUT: understanding one like ORACLE gives you an oversight over many.I DO know, ORACLE isn't too easy;-) Apologies for any typing mistakes I failed to notice. Markus Reger Oracle Applications DBA Webmaster MBC University for Music and Performing Art Vienna >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/16/03 05:59 AM >>> Must have been basic theory or perhaps they were referring to ANSI SQL which we all use. You will find substantial differences between UDB, DB2/MVS, Oracle and SQL Server and all the others. I have worked at one time or another with the above mentioned and moving from one to another was fairly easy as a developer but for a DBA it was more complicated due to architecture differences in implementation. Of course, maybe I am just a slow learner. btw This guy was he the same one that said in a couple of years programmers won't be needed anymore or perhaps that 640K is all that you will ever need. David Davis Manulife Financial >From: "Les Ayudo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Know 1 database, know them all? >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:38:38 -0800 > >I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them >all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net >-- >Author: Les Ayudo > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com >San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services >- >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: david davis INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Markus Reger INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Know 1 database, know them all?
Must have been basic theory or perhaps they were referring to ANSI SQL which we all use. You will find substantial differences between UDB, DB2/MVS, Oracle and SQL Server and all the others. I have worked at one time or another with the above mentioned and moving from one to another was fairly easy as a developer but for a DBA it was more complicated due to architecture differences in implementation. Of course, maybe I am just a slow learner. btw This guy was he the same one that said in a couple of years programmers won't be needed anymore or perhaps that 640K is all that you will ever need. David Davis Manulife Financial From: "Les Ayudo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Know 1 database, know them all? Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:38:38 -0800 I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Les Ayudo INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: david davis INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Know 1 database, know them all?
I overheard one guy mention that once you learn one database, you know them all. Is this true? Or was he just talking about the theory behind the db? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Les Ayudo INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
