Re: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Standard Edition(SE)will do the good, old standby database thing quite well, but without the bells-and-whistles that became available in v8.1.x (i.e. automated log shipping, log shipping over SQL*Net, automated log apply, up to 5 archive destinatios, etc). You'll essentially be running in v7.3.x mode (which I'm personally happy to do, because it allows me to use some good, old tried-and-true scripts). For a while in the 8.1.5 timeframe, there was even a bug whereby the *primary* database instance could be crashed by an ORA-00600 occuring on the *standby* database instance (!!!), so those good, old standby databases operating in v7.3 mode on v8.1 softwarelooked pretty danged smart... Very often, Oracle will allow the second node in a standby arrangement to be licensed using "named-user" licensing, so you only pay the US$15K/processor for the "primary" serverand then pay the 5-named-user minimum(25-named-user minimum for EE)on the "standby" server (something like US$2-3K total for SE, something like US$12-15K total for EE, I think -- can't say for certain because the unbreakable OracleStore is down at the moment). Of course, you can't even license SE on a box with more than four processors... You can run a wide variety of applications on SE; I've seen PeopleSoft run happily in production on it, no quibbles whatsoever... - Original Message - From: Mogens Nørgaard To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC I'm not sure, but I think the good, old standard standby thing will work with SE ($15K per CPU).Data Guard requires EE, so that's $40K.But 3rd party tools (I have tested none of them, but I know the name Quest Shareplex) will run on SE - but then they probably cost a lot, too. Oracle is moving towards the idea that any HA-option will require you to use EE. In some places, where SE is good enough, 3rd party tools might suddenly look attractive :).Mogens[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simple: RAC = $60k per CPU. Standby = $40k per CPU. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/11/2003 01:54 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Re[2]: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC Dick How is the standby database cheaper? I understood from previous list discussions that you had to license the standby server as well. As the hardware and O/S become commodities, I think Oracle would like to avoid becoming a commodity. Commodity prices are low, as any farmer can tell you. But the further issue is "how do Oracle DBAs avoid becoming a commodity?". Maybe the next question coming is "why should we pay more for a DBA when we're getting the computer and software so cheap?" Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared, I don't know about the rest of the list members, but the company I work for would like to have the technology but without the additional license expense. Therefore were going to do the standby database thing instead of RAC. Now if your into using Linux with low end PC's then maybe you can justify it. I don't know, it gives me the whillies when the software costs more than the hardware and OS combined. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 8:29 AM This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, "How many of us work for a business that actually need this?" "Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it?" "Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?" I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared On Saturday 08 Febr
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Now
you've done it... I'll never be able to listen to that song again without
thinking...
"We
will, we will, RAC you"
:-)
-Original Message-From: Mogens Nørgaard
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:19
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re:
[new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition -
RACThanks, Mark. Any email helps. Wherever I've taught a
class around the world while I was still with Oracle, or later after doing the
Miracle thing, I've always given out my email address and phone numbers to
everybody in the room - and on average have received two emails even when I
was presenting for 100 people. But the Unix SIG meeting in London
changed that. I've gotten about 7 or 8 mails from the 110 attendees there, so
I'm feeling like a rock star right now...RAC is on sale (at least in
the US) currently, which means it only costs 25% on top of EE instead of the
normal 50%.But if you're paying $60K (or perhaps only $50K :) ) per
CPU for Oracle, why is it important to have extremely cheap hardware to run
it? Why would you want to run very expensive software on very cheap hardware?
Yes, the total price will go down, but just like when we're looking at
databases and try to find where the time goes, we might here want to look at
where the money goes and then try to cut the cost by looking at, say, the most
expensive part of the configuration first :).One important thing to
realise is that Oracle is selling this and managers and directors are buying
it, while many DBA's and system admins are asking the right questions (to
absolutely no avail), namely: Why? Are there cheaper and/or simpler and/or
better alternatives to our real needs here? The dream of having all those
wonderful things (HA, scaling, workload partitioning, happier marriages, more
uniforms, faster cars, and such) is easily sold to the political levels but
not to the twisted and bitter old men and women in the technical world.
The result is of course that RAC will pop up here and there and
perhaps one day everywhere.But RAC, clusters, CFS, what have you, all
make the environments even more complex. Which is good for me, since I run a
high-end consulting outfit. Should be good for all of us. But then we all have
to stop questioning the wisdom of buying and implementing RAC and instead
endorse it every time we get the chance.The only downside I can think
of is that if all the techies start shouting "We will, we will, RAC you" and
"RAC over Bethoven" everywhere and at all times, managers and directors might
think that RAC is some kind of nerdy thing that they'd better stay away from.
Action and reaction.Best regards,MogensMark
Leith wrote:
I heard Mogens talk about this at the UKOUG Unix SIG in London at the end of
last month ("You Probably Don't Need RAC, or: pRos And Cons"). It was truly
an eye opener! The upshot was, if you don't have a requirement to be up from
a failure within 5 minutes, then you don't need RAC. As has already been
pointed out, in the case of a SAN failure, then even this may not count.
Mogens also mentioned some pretty interesting up time statistics. A single
Unix box can have an availability of 99.9%. A two node Unix cluster has an
availability of 98% (due to software patching/upgrades). There is also still
a "brown out" period with RAC when a node fails, whilst the other node or
nodes play "catch up" to re-assign the resources and recover any work that
the failed node was doing at the point of failure.
Of course, there are also pros to having RAC, workload partitioning (running
batch on one node, OLTP type work on another), you can scale your CPUs as
and when the increase is needed.
There seemed to be far more cons than pros imo though. Mogens goes through a
lot more in his talk, it is certainly worth your time! It certainly helps to
widen your perspective from the constant marketing jargon ;)
I really must remember to send Mogens an email, he loves email, send it to
him directly, I'm sure he'll be ecstatic! :D
Mark
-Original Message-
Sent: 11 February 2003 23:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
FYI, I am headed to Mogens RAC or Not to RAC presentation at the hotsos
symposium, let you know what I learn!
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with.
It all begs the questions,
"How many of us work for a business that actually need this?"
"Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost
of Oracle 9i EE to use it?"
"Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?"
I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime
at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover
system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage
for us, which is indeed a hot topic here
Re: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Good points. In Denmark we have a lot of Damgaard/Navision/Microsoft Business Solutions sites running these - usually modestly-sized - ERP-systems on SE. Tim Gorman wrote: Standard Edition(SE)will do the good, old standby database thing quite well, but without the bells-and-whistles that became available in v8.1.x (i.e. automated log shipping, log shipping over SQL*Net, automated log apply, up to 5 archive destinatios, etc). You'll essentially be running in v7.3.x mode (which I'm personally happy to do, because it allows me to use some good, old tried-and-true scripts). For a while in the 8.1.5 timeframe, there was even a bug whereby the *primary* database instance could be crashed by an ORA-00600 occuring on the *standby* database instance (!!!), so those good, old standby databases operating in v7.3 mode on v8.1 softwarelooked pretty danged smart... Very often, Oracle will allow the second node in a standby arrangement to be licensed using "named-user" licensing, so you only pay the US$15K/processor for the "primary" serverand then pay the 5-named-user minimum(25-named-user minimum for EE)on the "standby" server (something like US$2-3K total for SE, something like US$12-15K total for EE, I think -- can't say for certain because the unbreakable OracleStore is down at the moment). Of course, you can't even license SE on a box with more than four processors... You can run a wide variety of applications on SE; I've seen PeopleSoft run happily in production on it, no quibbles whatsoever... - Original Message - From: Mogens Nrgaard To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [new info] Redhat AdvancedServer Dev Edition - RAC I'm not sure, but I think the good, old standard standby thingwill work with SE ($15K per CPU). Data Guard requires EE, so that's$40K. But 3rd party tools (I have tested none of them, but I know thename Quest Shareplex) will run on SE - but then they probably cost a lot, too.Oracle is moving towards the idea that any HA-option will require you to use EE. In some places, where SE is good enough, 3rd party tools might suddenly look attractive :). Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simple: RAC = $60k per CPU. Standby = $40k per CPU. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/11/2003 01:54 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Re[2]: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC Dick How is the standby database cheaper? I understood from previous list discussions that you had to license the standby server as well. As the hardware and O/S become commodities, I think Oracle would like to avoid becoming a commodity. Commodity prices are low, as any farmer can tell you. But the further issue is "how do Oracle DBAs avoid becoming a commodity?". Maybe the next question coming is "why should we pay more for a DBA when we're getting the computer and software so cheap?" Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared, I don't know about the rest of the list members, but the company I work for would like to have the technology but without the additional license expense. Therefore were going to do the standby database thing instead of RAC. Now if your into using Linux with low end PC's then maybe you can justify it. I don't know, it gives me the whillies when the software costs more than the hardware and OS combined. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 8:29 AM This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, "How many of us work for a business that actually need this?" "Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it?" "Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?" I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text mess
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Jailhouse RAC !!! anyone?
Raj
__
Rajendra
Jamadagni
MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot
com
Any opinion expressed here is
personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but
having an opinion is an art!
-Original Message-From: Johnston, Tim
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003
10:29 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Now
you've done it... I'll never be able to listen to that song again
without thinking...
"We
will, we will, RAC you"
:-)
-Original Message-From: Mogens Nørgaard
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:19
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re:
[new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition -
RACThanks, Mark. Any email helps. Wherever I've taught
a class around the world while I was still with Oracle, or later after doing
the Miracle thing, I've always given out my email address and phone numbers
to everybody in the room - and on average have received two emails even when
I was presenting for 100 people. But the Unix SIG meeting in London
changed that. I've gotten about 7 or 8 mails from the 110 attendees there,
so I'm feeling like a rock star right now...RAC is on sale (at least
in the US) currently, which means it only costs 25% on top of EE instead of
the normal 50%.But if you're paying $60K (or perhaps only $50K :) )
per CPU for Oracle, why is it important to have extremely cheap hardware to
run it? Why would you want to run very expensive software on very cheap
hardware? Yes, the total price will go down, but just like when we're
looking at databases and try to find where the time goes, we might here want
to look at where the money goes and then try to cut the cost by looking at,
say, the most expensive part of the configuration first :).One
important thing to realise is that Oracle is selling this and managers and
directors are buying it, while many DBA's and system admins are asking the
right questions (to absolutely no avail), namely: Why? Are there cheaper
and/or simpler and/or better alternatives to our real needs here? The dream
of having all those wonderful things (HA, scaling, workload partitioning,
happier marriages, more uniforms, faster cars, and such) is easily sold to
the political levels but not to the twisted and bitter old men and women in
the technical world. The result is of course that RAC will pop up
here and there and perhaps one day everywhere.But RAC, clusters,
CFS, what have you, all make the environments even more complex. Which is
good for me, since I run a high-end consulting outfit. Should be good for
all of us. But then we all have to stop questioning the wisdom of buying and
implementing RAC and instead endorse it every time we get the
chance.The only downside I can think of is that if all the techies
start shouting "We will, we will, RAC you" and "RAC over Bethoven"
everywhere and at all times, managers and directors might think that RAC is
some kind of nerdy thing that they'd better stay away from. Action and
reaction.Best regards,MogensMark Leith
wrote:
I heard Mogens talk about this at the UKOUG Unix SIG in London at the end of
last month ("You Probably Don't Need RAC, or: pRos And Cons"). It was truly
an eye opener! The upshot was, if you don't have a requirement to be up from
a failure within 5 minutes, then you don't need RAC. As has already been
pointed out, in the case of a SAN failure, then even this may not count.
Mogens also mentioned some pretty interesting up time statistics. A single
Unix box can have an availability of 99.9%. A two node Unix cluster has an
availability of 98% (due to software patching/upgrades). There is also still
a "brown out" period with RAC when a node fails, whilst the other node or
nodes play "catch up" to re-assign the resources and recover any work that
the failed node was doing at the point of failure.
Of course, there are also pros to having RAC, workload partitioning (running
batch on one node, OLTP type work on another), you can scale your CPUs as
and when the increase is needed.
There seemed to be far more cons than pros imo though. Mogens goes through a
lot more in his talk, it is certainly worth your time! It certainly helps to
widen your perspective from the constant marketing jargon ;)
I really must remember to send Mogens an email, he loves email, send it to
him directly, I'm sure he'll be ecstatic! :D
Mark
-Original Message-
Sent: 11 February 2003 23:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
FYI, I am headed to Mogens RAC or Not to RAC presentation at the
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
With all this discussion on Why RAC?, I thought I'd chime in with our reasoning, at least as it stands before any testing. We currently have a few major databases for our ERP/MRP system, Engineering drawings, and legacy (I loathe that word) data. These databases are spread across three larger systems: Solaris, HP/UX, and OpenVMS. They are set up as any three independant systems with their own disks, own CPUs, own memory, etc. These relatively expensive systems are under utilized, and finally, are beginning to show their age (up to six years old). By combining these systems under a single system, we will be saving money in hardware cost (future upgrades and repair) as well as in service contracts, not to mention the utimate savings -- computer room floorspace! What I don't want to do is have the consolidation negatively affect the DBs in performance or downtime (perceived or real). So, the idea right now is to use commodity (read: inexpensive) servers, dual Intel (AMD???) 1Us, with a SAN, and 9iRAC. The theory being that while we'll take an initial kick in the fiscal crotch with the Oracle licensing, since we currently refuse to let go of our Concurrent User, we'll come out ahead in the long run with the added performance and unlimited user (per CPU) licensing. Also, with the commodity servers, we can switch out the server for faster CPUs without incurring more licensing cost should the need arise (yes, Cary, I'm well aware of the CPU Upgrade Myth!). With our testing, I hope to see that we'll be able to provide better uptime and performance with RAC than the total sum of the current boxes (save for the uptime on the OpenVMS box, which has 10 minutes of total downtime in the past 770+ days). Any comments on this? In the interest of bandwidth and brevity, I've been way too brief here. This should really be discussed over Guinness. Thx! Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
If you asked me last week I might not have formulated much of an opinion, but I have been tainted by Mogens presentation on RAC or Not To RAC. Here are some questions you need to ask... Why not go with a box capable of the CPU's you will eventually need. Why add machines when adding CPU's might be just fine. Will these apps really not run on 64 CPU's? The added complexity of RAC and administration needs to be a factor in calculating your target uptime? My experience has been that most database downtime is a result of the following items. 1. DBA/Unix admin errors. 2. Application errors (run away batch jobs) 3. User errors (truncate table) RAC doesn't fix any of these things. However, a stand-by running a few hours behind could provide feasible solutions to most of these items. Just recently I saw a HACMP cluster (not RAC) come down causing a 1 hour outage as a result of the instructions provided directly from an IBM support rep to the Unix admin. The complexity of HA was the issue, so point #1 only becomes more likely as you add the complexity of running RAC to your environment. If you could chart all this stuff I got to feel that at some point the likelihood of one of issues above surpasses the likelihood of an actual hardware failure causing an outage. I think another point made during the presentation is that some very unique and hard to pinpoint errors can arise from running RAC. Don't be surprised if the answer back from Oracle is very vague (i.e. perhaps parameter X is set to high when circumstance Y happens... My 2 cents... - Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L With all this discussion on Why RAC?, I thought I'd chime in with our reasoning, at least as it stands before any testing. We currently have a few major databases for our ERP/MRP system, Engineering drawings, and legacy (I loathe that word) data. These databases are spread across three larger systems: Solaris, HP/UX, and OpenVMS. They are set up as any three independant systems with their own disks, own CPUs, own memory, etc. These relatively expensive systems are under utilized, and finally, are beginning to show their age (up to six years old). By combining these systems under a single system, we will be saving money in hardware cost (future upgrades and repair) as well as in service contracts, not to mention the utimate savings -- computer room floorspace! What I don't want to do is have the consolidation negatively affect the DBs in performance or downtime (perceived or real). So, the idea right now is to use commodity (read: inexpensive) servers, dual Intel (AMD???) 1Us, with a SAN, and 9iRAC. The theory being that while we'll take an initial kick in the fiscal crotch with the Oracle licensing, since we currently refuse to let go of our Concurrent User, we'll come out ahead in the long run with the added performance and unlimited user (per CPU) licensing. Also, with the commodity servers, we can switch out the server for faster CPUs without incurring more licensing cost should the need arise (yes, Cary, I'm well aware of the CPU Upgrade Myth!). With our testing, I hope to see that we'll be able to provide better uptime and performance with RAC than the total sum of the current boxes (save for the uptime on the OpenVMS box, which has 10 minutes of total downtime in the past 770+ days). Any comments on this? In the interest of bandwidth and brevity, I've been way too brief here. This should really be discussed over Guinness. Thx! Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I'm RAC --ing my brains on this cluster... -Original Message-From: Jamadagni, Rajendra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:50 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC Jailhouse RAC !!! anyone? Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! -Original Message-From: Johnston, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:29 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC Now you've done it... I'll never be able to listen to that song again without thinking... "We will, we will, RAC you" :-) -Original Message
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
And don't forget, RAC ( or a cluster ) will be of little benefit if the SAN fails. ( it happens ) Jared Post, Ethan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/13/2003 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC If you asked me last week I might not have formulated much of an opinion, but I have been tainted by Mogens presentation on RAC or Not To RAC. Here are some questions you need to ask... Why not go with a box capable of the CPU's you will eventually need. Why add machines when adding CPU's might be just fine. Will these apps really not run on 64 CPU's? The added complexity of RAC and administration needs to be a factor in calculating your target uptime? My experience has been that most database downtime is a result of the following items. 1. DBA/Unix admin errors. 2. Application errors (run away batch jobs) 3. User errors (truncate table) RAC doesn't fix any of these things. However, a stand-by running a few hours behind could provide feasible solutions to most of these items. Just recently I saw a HACMP cluster (not RAC) come down causing a 1 hour outage as a result of the instructions provided directly from an IBM support rep to the Unix admin. The complexity of HA was the issue, so point #1 only becomes more likely as you add the complexity of running RAC to your environment. If you could chart all this stuff I got to feel that at some point the likelihood of one of issues above surpasses the likelihood of an actual hardware failure causing an outage. I think another point made during the presentation is that some very unique and hard to pinpoint errors can arise from running RAC. Don't be surprised if the answer back from Oracle is very vague (i.e. perhaps parameter X is set to high when circumstance Y happens... My 2 cents... - Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L With all this discussion on Why RAC?, I thought I'd chime in with our reasoning, at least as it stands before any testing. We currently have a few major databases for our ERP/MRP system, Engineering drawings, and legacy (I loathe that word) data. These databases are spread across three larger systems: Solaris, HP/UX, and OpenVMS. They are set up as any three independant systems with their own disks, own CPUs, own memory, etc. These relatively expensive systems are under utilized, and finally, are beginning to show their age (up to six years old). By combining these systems under a single system, we will be saving money in hardware cost (future upgrades and repair) as well as in service contracts, not to mention the utimate savings -- computer room floorspace! What I don't want to do is have the consolidation negatively affect the DBs in performance or downtime (perceived or real). So, the idea right now is to use commodity (read: inexpensive) servers, dual Intel (AMD???) 1Us, with a SAN, and 9iRAC. The theory being that while we'll take an initial kick in the fiscal crotch with the Oracle licensing, since we currently refuse to let go of our Concurrent User, we'll come out ahead in the long run with the added performance and unlimited user (per CPU) licensing. Also, with the commodity servers, we can switch out the server for faster CPUs without incurring more licensing cost should the need arise (yes, Cary, I'm well aware of the CPU Upgrade Myth!). With our testing, I hope to see that we'll be able to provide better uptime and performance with RAC than the total sum of the current boxes (save for the uptime on the OpenVMS box, which has 10 minutes of total downtime in the past 770+ days). Any comments on this? In the interest of bandwidth and brevity, I've been way too brief here. This should really be discussed over Guinness. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Jared, point well taken. One SAN goes and we lose access to 7 DBs. However, the paranoia between me and my Team Lead will certainly opt for dual network path, dual power (to go with our current UPS and Ford V8 generator), and some mix of RAIDs 0 and 1. I'm thinking that this will get us to the Point of Diminishing Returns -- we'd have to shpend a shipload more dough to get a higher percentage uptime. And it's not that important for a manufacturing/engineering shop to be 24x7x365. Important, but just not paramount. Thx for the feedback! Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jesse, Rich; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Importance: High And don't forget, RAC ( or a cluster ) will be of little benefit if the SAN fails. ( it happens ) Jared Post, Ethan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/13/2003 09:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC If you asked me last week I might not have formulated much of an opinion, but I have been tainted by Mogens presentation on RAC or Not To RAC. Here are some questions you need to ask... Why not go with a box capable of the CPU's you will eventually need. Why add machines when adding CPU's might be just fine. Will these apps really not run on 64 CPU's? The added complexity of RAC and administration needs to be a factor in calculating your target uptime? My experience has been that most database downtime is a result of the following items. 1. DBA/Unix admin errors. 2. Application errors (run away batch jobs) 3. User errors (truncate table) RAC doesn't fix any of these things. However, a stand-by running a few hours behind could provide feasible solutions to most of these items. Just recently I saw a HACMP cluster (not RAC) come down causing a 1 hour outage as a result of the instructions provided directly from an IBM support rep to the Unix admin. The complexity of HA was the issue, so point #1 only becomes more likely as you add the complexity of running RAC to your environment. If you could chart all this stuff I got to feel that at some point the likelihood of one of issues above surpasses the likelihood of an actual hardware failure causing an outage. I think another point made during the presentation is that some very unique and hard to pinpoint errors can arise from running RAC. Don't be surprised if the answer back from Oracle is very vague (i.e. perhaps parameter X is set to high when circumstance Y happens... My 2 cents... - Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L With all this discussion on Why RAC?, I thought I'd chime in with our reasoning, at least as it stands before any testing. We currently have a few major databases for our ERP/MRP system, Engineering drawings, and legacy (I loathe that word) data. These databases are spread across three larger systems: Solaris, HP/UX, and OpenVMS. They are set up as any three independant systems with their own disks, own CPUs, own memory, etc. These relatively expensive systems are under utilized, and finally, are beginning to show their age (up to six years old). By combining these systems under a single system, we will be saving money in hardware cost (future upgrades and repair) as well as in service contracts, not to mention the utimate savings -- computer room floorspace! What I don't want to do is have the consolidation negatively affect the DBs in performance or downtime (perceived or real). So, the idea right now is to use commodity (read: inexpensive) servers, dual Intel (AMD???) 1Us, with a SAN, and 9iRAC. The theory being that while we'll take an initial kick in the fiscal crotch with the Oracle licensing, since we currently refuse to let go of our Concurrent User, we'll come out ahead in the long run with the added performance and unlimited user (per CPU) licensing. Also, with the commodity servers, we can switch out the server for faster CPUs without incurring more licensing cost should the need arise (yes, Cary, I'm well aware of the CPU Upgrade Myth!). With our testing, I hope to see that we'll be able to provide better uptime and performance with RAC than the total sum of the current boxes (save for the uptime on the OpenVMS box, which has 10 minutes of total downtime in the past 770+ days). Any comments on this? In the interest of bandwidth and brevity, I've been way too brief here. This should really be discussed over Guinness. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Hey Ethan, Our problem with 64 CPUs is the Oracle licensing cost. $2.5M exceeds our entire IT budget (I think). Not to mention that machines that can handle 64 CPUs -- HP's PA-RISC and Alphas and Sun's Ultras among others -- are prohibitively expensive for us. Also, if the server cluster ain't DEC's (Compaq/HP), it ain't right. DEC invented and perfected it. I worked on a VAXCluster in the 80's and it was very stable (two 11/750s and a 11/780 -- 2.3 whole VUPs between the three!). There's my 10 years of DEC SA bigotry sneaking in... :) As a knee-jerk reaction, I would agree with your Top Three Downtime Causes, which I would lump into a single Human Error category. There is only so much one can do to prevent this, no matter what hardware or DB is in use. We've encountered all three on our big DB, with relatively minor whiplash. Our DBs are small in the Oracle World. The largest is only 30GB on disk. With proper setup, this could be only 1 or 2 hours for complete recovery. That could negate the need for incurring the high cost of an HA cluster (aside from RAC). I appreciate the feedback! This is exactly the stuff I'm looking for! Like I mentioned, this kinda thing really needs to be good shouting match over beer. Thanks! Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you asked me last week I might not have formulated much of an opinion, but I have been tainted by Mogens presentation on RAC or Not To RAC. Here are some questions you need to ask... Why not go with a box capable of the CPU's you will eventually need. Why add machines when adding CPU's might be just fine. Will these apps really not run on 64 CPU's? The added complexity of RAC and administration needs to be a factor in calculating your target uptime? My experience has been that most database downtime is a result of the following items. 1. DBA/Unix admin errors. 2. Application errors (run away batch jobs) 3. User errors (truncate table) RAC doesn't fix any of these things. However, a stand-by running a few hours behind could provide feasible solutions to most of these items. Just recently I saw a HACMP cluster (not RAC) come down causing a 1 hour outage as a result of the instructions provided directly from an IBM support rep to the Unix admin. The complexity of HA was the issue, so point #1 only becomes more likely as you add the complexity of running RAC to your environment. If you could chart all this stuff I got to feel that at some point the likelihood of one of issues above surpasses the likelihood of an actual hardware failure causing an outage. I think another point made during the presentation is that some very unique and hard to pinpoint errors can arise from running RAC. Don't be surprised if the answer back from Oracle is very vague (i.e. perhaps parameter X is set to high when circumstance Y happens... My 2 cents... - Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:40 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L With all this discussion on Why RAC?, I thought I'd chime in with our reasoning, at least as it stands before any testing. We currently have a few major databases for our ERP/MRP system, Engineering drawings, and legacy (I loathe that word) data. These databases are spread across three larger systems: Solaris, HP/UX, and OpenVMS. They are set up as any three independant systems with their own disks, own CPUs, own memory, etc. These relatively expensive systems are under utilized, and finally, are beginning to show their age (up to six years old). By combining these systems under a single system, we will be saving money in hardware cost (future upgrades and repair) as well as in service contracts, not to mention the utimate savings -- computer room floorspace! What I don't want to do is have the consolidation negatively affect the DBs in performance or downtime (perceived or real). So, the idea right now is to use commodity (read: inexpensive) servers, dual Intel (AMD???) 1Us, with a SAN, and 9iRAC. The theory being that while we'll take an initial kick in the fiscal crotch with the Oracle licensing, since we currently refuse to let go of our Concurrent User, we'll come out ahead in the long run with the added performance and unlimited user (per CPU) licensing. Also, with the commodity servers, we can switch out the server for faster CPUs without incurring more licensing cost should the need arise (yes, Cary, I'm well aware of the CPU Upgrade Myth!). With our testing, I hope to see that we'll be able to provide better uptime and performance with RAC than the total sum of the current boxes (save for the uptime on the OpenVMS box, which has 10 minutes of total downtime in the past 770+ days). Any comments on this? In the interest of bandwidth and brevity,
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I heard Mogens talk about this at the UKOUG Unix SIG in London at the end of last month (You Probably Don't Need RAC, or: pRos And Cons). It was truly an eye opener! The upshot was, if you don't have a requirement to be up from a failure within 5 minutes, then you don't need RAC. As has already been pointed out, in the case of a SAN failure, then even this may not count. Mogens also mentioned some pretty interesting up time statistics. A single Unix box can have an availability of 99.9%. A two node Unix cluster has an availability of 98% (due to software patching/upgrades). There is also still a brown out period with RAC when a node fails, whilst the other node or nodes play catch up to re-assign the resources and recover any work that the failed node was doing at the point of failure. Of course, there are also pros to having RAC, workload partitioning (running batch on one node, OLTP type work on another), you can scale your CPUs as and when the increase is needed. There seemed to be far more cons than pros imo though. Mogens goes through a lot more in his talk, it is certainly worth your time! It certainly helps to widen your perspective from the constant marketing jargon ;) I really must remember to send Mogens an email, he loves email, send it to him directly, I'm sure he'll be ecstatic! :D Mark -Original Message- Sent: 11 February 2003 23:34 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L FYI, I am headed to Mogens RAC or Not to RAC presentation at the hotsos symposium, let you know what I learn! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote: To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Thanks, Mark. Any email helps. Wherever I've taught a class around the world
while I was still with Oracle, or later after doing the Miracle thing, I've
always given out my email address and phone numbers to everybody in the room
- and on average have received two emails even when I was presenting for
100 people.
But the Unix SIG meeting in London changed that. I've gotten about 7 or 8
mails from the 110 attendees there, so I'm feeling like a rock star right
now...
RAC is on sale (at least in the US) currently, which means it only costs
25% on top of EE instead of the normal 50%.
But if you're paying $60K (or perhaps only $50K :) ) per CPU for Oracle,
why is it important to have extremely cheap hardware to run it? Why would
you want to run very expensive software on very cheap hardware? Yes, the
total price will go down, but just like when we're looking at databases and
try to find where the time goes, we might here want to look at where the
money goes and then try to cut the cost by looking at, say, the most expensive
part of the configuration first :).
One important thing to realise is that Oracle is selling this and managers
and directors are buying it, while many DBA's and system admins are asking
the right questions (to absolutely no avail), namely: Why? Are there cheaper
and/or simpler and/or better alternatives to our real needs here? The dream
of having all those wonderful things (HA, scaling, workload partitioning,
happier marriages, more uniforms, faster cars, and such) is easily sold to
the political levels but not to the twisted and bitter old men and women
in the technical world.
The result is of course that RAC will pop up here and there and perhaps one
day everywhere.
But RAC, clusters, CFS, what have you, all make the environments even more
complex. Which is good for me, since I run a high-end consulting outfit.
Should be good for all of us. But then we all have to stop questioning the
wisdom of buying and implementing RAC and instead endorse it every time we
get the chance.
The only downside I can think of is that if all the techies start shouting
"We will, we will, RAC you" and "RAC over Bethoven" everywhere and at all
times, managers and directors might think that RAC is some kind of nerdy
thing that they'd better stay away from. Action and reaction.
Best regards,
Mogens
Mark Leith wrote:
I heard Mogens talk about this at the UKOUG Unix SIG in London at the end of
last month ("You Probably Don't Need RAC, or: pRos And Cons"). It was truly
an eye opener! The upshot was, if you don't have a requirement to be up from
a failure within 5 minutes, then you don't need RAC. As has already been
pointed out, in the case of a SAN failure, then even this may not count.
Mogens also mentioned some pretty interesting up time statistics. A single
Unix box can have an availability of 99.9%. A two node Unix cluster has an
availability of 98% (due to software patching/upgrades). There is also still
a "brown out" period with RAC when a node fails, whilst the other node or
nodes play "catch up" to re-assign the resources and recover any work that
the failed node was doing at the point of failure.
Of course, there are also pros to having RAC, workload partitioning (running
batch on one node, OLTP type work on another), you can scale your CPUs as
and when the increase is needed.
There seemed to be far more cons than pros imo though. Mogens goes through a
lot more in his talk, it is certainly worth your time! It certainly helps to
widen your perspective from the constant marketing jargon ;)
I really must remember to send Mogens an email, he loves email, send it to
him directly, I'm sure he'll be ecstatic! :D
Mark
-Original Message-
Sent: 11 February 2003 23:34
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
FYI, I am headed to Mogens RAC or Not to RAC presentation at the hotsos
symposium, let you know what I learn!
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with.
It all begs the questions,
"How many of us work for a business that actually need this?"
"Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost
of Oracle 9i EE to use it?"
"Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?"
I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime
at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover
system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage
for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell
SAN put us out of business for 36 hours.
RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster
for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect.
This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the
mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures
with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages
to someone elses phone when you could just call them?
Re: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I'm not sure, but I think the good, old standard standby thing will work with SE ($15K per CPU). Data Guard requires EE, so that's $40K. But 3rd party tools (I have tested none of them, but I know the name Quest Shareplex) will run on SE - but then they probably cost a lot, too. Oracle is moving towards the idea that any HA-option will require you to use EE. In some places, where SE is good enough, 3rd party tools might suddenly look attractive :). Mogens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simple: RAC = $60k per CPU. Standby = $40k per CPU. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/11/2003 01:54 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Re[2]: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC Dick How is the standby database cheaper? I understood from previous list discussions that you had to license the standby server as well. As the hardware and O/S become commodities, I think Oracle would like to avoid becoming a commodity. Commodity prices are low, as any farmer can tell you. But the further issue is "how do Oracle DBAs avoid becoming a commodity?". Maybe the next question coming is "why should we pay more for a DBA when we're getting the computer and software so cheap?" Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jared, I don't know about the rest of the list members, but the company I work for would like to have the technology but without the additional license expense. Therefore were going to do the standby database thing instead of RAC. Now if your into using Linux with low end PC's then maybe you can justify it. I don't know, it gives me the whillies when the software costs more than the hardware and OS combined. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Jared Still [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/11/2003 8:29 AM This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, "How many of us work for a business that actually need this?" "Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it?" "Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?" I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote: To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Advanced Server (developer's edition) seems to be much easier than the standard edition simply in terms of getting OCFS to work so that's the way I've gone. I've tried Suse 8.0 and RedHat 8.0 and I could load the OCFS module but it wasn't stable and frankly I didn't trust it much. Also using the AS product is a convenient way to evaluate it for the future. Right now I have RHAS and OCFS working on one box apparently sharing a firewire disk. I'll install 9iR2 tonight and see if I can build the 2nd node tonight. There seem to be 4 different sets of instructions for firewire RAC and I haven't followed any of them exclusively. Regards, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 16:34 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Are you going to use RH AS or the plain version? Thanks Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm setting this up now. Still not exactly smooth. I currently have 4 different sets of instructions on how to set this up and I'm working through them with increasingly high stress levels =) Perhaps it's time to cut back the coffee intake and have lunch. Cheers, Mike Hately -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I was doing some research on firewire disks when saw this article: http://technet.oracle.com/oramag/webcolumns/2002/opinion/coekaerts_linux01.h tml Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Advanced Server (developer's edition) seems to be much easier than the standard edition simply in terms of getting OCFS to work so that's the way I've gone. I've tried Suse 8.0 and RedHat 8.0 and I could load the OCFS module but it wasn't stable and frankly I didn't trust it much. Also using the AS product is a convenient way to evaluate it for the future. Right now I have RHAS and OCFS working on one box apparently sharing a firewire disk. I'll install 9iR2 tonight and see if I can build the 2nd node tonight. There seem to be 4 different sets of instructions for firewire RAC and I haven't followed any of them exclusively. Regards, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 16:34 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Are you going to use RH AS or the plain version? Thanks Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm setting this up now. Still not exactly smooth. I currently have 4 different sets of instructions on how to set this up and I'm working through them with increasingly high stress levels =) Perhaps it's time to cut back the coffee intake and have lunch. Cheers, Mike Hately -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
yep I must know this by heart now. Also see Metalink Tech notes, 183408.1 and 220178.1 and http://www.dbasupport.com/oracle/ora9i/RacLinuxFirewire1.shtml regards, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 11 February 2003 14:40 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I was doing some research on firewire disks when saw this article: http://technet.oracle.com/oramag/webcolumns/2002/opinion/coekaerts_linux01.h tml Regards, Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Advanced Server (developer's edition) seems to be much easier than the standard edition simply in terms of getting OCFS to work so that's the way I've gone. I've tried Suse 8.0 and RedHat 8.0 and I could load the OCFS module but it wasn't stable and frankly I didn't trust it much. Also using the AS product is a convenient way to evaluate it for the future. Right now I have RHAS and OCFS working on one box apparently sharing a firewire disk. I'll install 9iR2 tonight and see if I can build the 2nd node tonight. There seem to be 4 different sets of instructions for firewire RAC and I haven't followed any of them exclusively. Regards, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 16:34 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Are you going to use RH AS or the plain version? Thanks Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm setting this up now. Still not exactly smooth. I currently have 4 different sets of instructions on how to set this up and I'm working through them with increasingly high stress levels =) Perhaps it's time to cut back the coffee intake and have lunch. Cheers, Mike Hately -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP
Re: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote: To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I don't know anyone who needs it but Oracle is behind it and that means that sooner or later they'll start to shift licenses. I'd be foolish to ignore the chance to experiment with RAC at home for £150 (I had a lot of the kit already) rather than pay Oracle £1158 for a 3 day RAC course (plus the loss of 3 days income). Add on to that the amount I've learned about the linux kernel and the fact that frankly a firewire disk is just generally useful to have around (backups/temporary storage for video or music) and I think I'd be a mug to do otherwise. So no, I don't work for a company that needs this but in the near future I may. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 11 February 2003 16:30 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? Sending SMS is not meant to replace phone calls, but there are situations when sending a SMS is more desirable. Such as you need to get a message to a person who is in a meeting and can't take phone calls. Cost is also a factor here. Outside of US, the charge for a SMS is a fraction of a phone call. In US, we get hit by both originating charges and terminating charges, which is one of the reason it hasn't grown as popular as in Asia or Europe. Richard -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I'm with Mike on this one, except I was just told earlier this morning that the current client I'm at wants to move the 11i apps to RAC. DO they need it, nope, do they want it, yep(and have basically already cut the check for the cost of RAC(since its on sale till end of month) :) So the experiment that I'll be starting next week will probably become a reality in the next 60 days. :) joe I don't know anyone who needs it but Oracle is behind it and that means that sooner or later they'll start to shift licenses. I'd be foolish to ignore the chance to experiment with RAC at home for £150 (I had a lot of the kit already) rather than pay Oracle £1158 for a 3 day RAC course (plus the loss of 3 days income). Add on to that the amount I've learned about the linux kernel and the fact that frankly a firewire disk is just generally useful to have around (backups/temporary storage for video or music) and I think I'd be a mug to do otherwise. So no, I don't work for a company that needs this but in the near future I may. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 11 February 2003 16:30 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Welcome to Corporate America, where damagers who have never written a code in the last decade (if ever) and have been promoted beyond their competence level make decisions about what is best for their systems and applications. DBA's and the like are little peeon grunts that do the work. Who cares what they have to say or what they need to do their jobs. A quote from one of the marketing VP's here from his meeting with a consulting company who was doing a crap job maintaining a data warehouse for them, after he made the decision to sign the contract for another three years and several million dollars: That was a nice lunch, wasn't it? How I miss working for a software company. That is all. Lisa Koivu Oracle Sleep Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 Office: 954-935-4117 Fax:954-935-3639 Cell:954-683-4459 -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm with Mike on this one, except I was just told earlier this morning that the current client I'm at wants to move the 11i apps to RAC. DO they need it, nope, do they want it, yep(and have basically already cut the check for the cost of RAC(since its on sale till end of month) :) So the experiment that I'll be starting next week will probably become a reality in the next 60 days. :) joe I don't know anyone who needs it but Oracle is behind it and that means that sooner or later they'll start to shift licenses. I'd be foolish to ignore the chance to experiment with RAC at home for £150 (I had a lot of the kit already) rather than pay Oracle £1158 for a 3 day RAC course (plus the loss of 3 days income). Add on to that the amount I've learned about the linux kernel and the fact that frankly a firewire disk is just generally useful to have around (backups/temporary storage for video or music) and I think I'd be a mug to do otherwise. So no, I don't work for a company that needs this but in the near future I may. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 11 February 2003 16:30 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Joe, Moving a 11i environment to RAC to 'fix' performance issues will only worsen it IMHO. Apps 11i is a complex beast, with a lot of cross-functional queries as well as a hard-hit central set of tables belong to the AOL. You can bet that there will be a ton of cross-instance pinging - albeit over the wire - if the divvying up is not done carefully.. Just my 2c - and I may soon be available for tuning such a 11i instance (hint! hint!) John Kanagaraj Oracle Applications DBA DBSoft Inc (W): 408-970-7002 I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my future! ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my employer or clients ** -Original Message- From: Joseph S Testa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC I'm with Mike on this one, except I was just told earlier this morning that the current client I'm at wants to move the 11i apps to RAC. DO they need it, nope, do they want it, yep(and have basically already cut the check for the cost of RAC(since its on sale till end of month) :) So the experiment that I'll be starting next week will probably become a reality in the next 60 days. :) joe I don't know anyone who needs it but Oracle is behind it and that means that sooner or later they'll start to shift licenses. I'd be foolish to ignore the chance to experiment with RAC at home for £150 (I had a lot of the kit already) rather than pay Oracle £1158 for a 3 day RAC course (plus the loss of 3 days income). Add on to that the amount I've learned about the linux kernel and the fact that frankly a firewire disk is just generally useful to have around (backups/temporary storage for video or music) and I think I'd be a mug to do otherwise. So no, I don't work for a company that needs this but in the near future I may. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 11 February 2003 16:30 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
FYI, I am headed to Mogens RAC or Not to RAC presentation at the hotsos symposium, let you know what I learn! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with. It all begs the questions, How many of us work for a business that actually need this? Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to use it? Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it? I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us. Though downtime at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours. RAC wouldn't have helped much there. Niether would a cluster for that matter. Standby DB would have been perfect. This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone campaign by ATT. Do you really need to take pictures with your phone? And what is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just call them? ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale. I see RAC in a similar light. Do you need RAC? Oracle needs you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product. Jared On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote: To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
I'm setting this up now. Still not exactly smooth. I currently have 4 different sets of instructions on how to set this up and I'm working through them with increasingly high stress levels =) Perhaps it's time to cut back the coffee intake and have lunch. Cheers, Mike Hately -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. ** ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Well u still probably can't(for production purposes) but for testing(which is what i want to do), its possible. I'm downloading right now, 4 600M+ iso images. hopefully next week will start messing with it and let you all know how it works out. Joe This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Joseph S Testa Chief Technology Officer Data Management Consulting p: 614-791-9000 f: 614-791-9001 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joseph S Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Hrm, let's see. I use one PC with 1/2gb RAM, 20GB HD $500. VMWare $399. RAC (download from OTN). There you go. :) Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
How to build a $1000 RAC http://www.cool-tools.co.uk/products/docs/91rac_config.pdf ;) -Original Message- Waleed Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
OCFS I'm afraid. The RHAS install goes quickly and without incident. The problem I have is that having installed the firewire kernel and the OCFS tools, my disk (which I can happily format as ext2) refuses to be formatted as an OCFS filesystem. The format command completes immediately with no errors but does nothing. Pretty annoying stuff. Mind you, I spent most of last week trying to get this to work with Suse 8.0. It would have worked (as would RHAS2.1) if I used raw devices instead of OCFS but that would feel like a job half done. I'll get there in the end but any pointers from folks who've got this working would be appreciated. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 16:29 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Are you pulling your hair out over the RHAS or RAC installs? Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Cool :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How to build a $1000 RAC http://www.cool-tools.co.uk/products/docs/91rac_config.pdf ;) -Original Message- Waleed Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Are you pulling your hair out over the RHAS or RAC installs? Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm setting this up now. Still not exactly smooth. I currently have 4 different sets of instructions on how to set this up and I'm working through them with increasingly high stress levels =) Perhaps it's time to cut back the coffee intake and have lunch. Cheers, Mike Hately -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Oh forgot the $60 for RHASD. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hrm, let's see. I use one PC with 1/2gb RAM, 20GB HD $500. VMWare $399. RAC (download from OTN). There you go. :) Richard Ji -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Ayou're using Wim Coekaerts' Firewire mod. I wonder if that's what's giving you grief and not OCFS? Please? We should be able to test RAC with a dual-ended SCSI or SAN. prayHopefully we won't have those problems!/pray Keep us informed of your progress! GL! Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:38 AM To: Jesse, Rich; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) OCFS I'm afraid. The RHAS install goes quickly and without incident. The problem I have is that having installed the firewire kernel and the OCFS tools, my disk (which I can happily format as ext2) refuses to be formatted as an OCFS filesystem. The format command completes immediately with no errors but does nothing. Pretty annoying stuff. Mind you, I spent most of last week trying to get this to work with Suse 8.0. It would have worked (as would RHAS2.1) if I used raw devices instead of OCFS but that would feel like a job half done. I'll get there in the end but any pointers from folks who've got this working would be appreciated. Cheers, Mike -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Are you going to use RH AS or the plain version? Thanks Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 10:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm setting this up now. Still not exactly smooth. I currently have 4 different sets of instructions on how to set this up and I'm working through them with increasingly high stress levels =) Perhaps it's time to cut back the coffee intake and have lunch. Cheers, Mike Hately -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 14:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L This is great! So how can we get a RAC configuration running for less 1000 dollars? :) Waleed -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux. I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately. This is great news Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server which only costs $60! So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1 to play with RAC. http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/ Have fun. Richard Ji -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. ** ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Ah, got it! As with all things it doesn't really work until you tick the box that says FORCE. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 16:38 To: 'Jesse, Rich'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) OCFS I'm afraid. The RHAS install goes quickly and without incident. The problem I have is that having installed the firewire kernel and the OCFS tools, my disk (which I can happily format as ext2) refuses to be formatted as an OCFS filesystem. The format command completes immediately with no errors but does nothing. Pretty annoying stuff. Mind you, I spent most of last week trying to get this to work with Suse 8.0. It would have worked (as would RHAS2.1) if I used raw devices instead of OCFS but that would feel like a job half done. I'll get there in the end but any pointers from folks who've got this working would be appreciated. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 16:29 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Are you pulling your hair out over the RHAS or RAC installs? Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC
Rich, I was just about to go the SCSI route when the firewire patch came out and I have 2 machines available with firewire and 500MB RAM each. Once I get this up and running I might try the NBD method that Brian Hengen suggested last week. Someone on site here is talking about building a Tru64 cluster soon so I may have the chance to play with shared SCSI at someone else's expense. We can only hope. In the meantime the past fortnight has taught me a heck of a lot about the linux kernel. I just got my disk formatted so I have 80GB to share with my other box when I get home. The RAC part is going to be easy after this. I should think that a document will come out this in the hope that it helps someone somewhere down the line. Mike -Original Message- Sent: 10 February 2003 17:08 To: 'Hately, Mike (NESL-IT)'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Ayou're using Wim Coekaerts' Firewire mod. I wonder if that's what's giving you grief and not OCFS? Please? We should be able to test RAC with a dual-ended SCSI or SAN. prayHopefully we won't have those problems!/pray Keep us informed of your progress! GL! Rich Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA ** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this e-mail in error and you must not copy, disseminate, distribute, use or take any action as a result of the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] (UK 01384 275454) and delete it immediately from your system. Neither Npower nor any of the other companies in the Innogy group from whom this e-mail originates accept any responsibility for losses or damage as a result of any viruses and it is your responsibility to check attachments (if any) for viruses. Npower Limited Registered office: Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon SN5 6PB. Registered in England and Wales: number 3653277 This e-mail may be sent on behalf of a member of the Innogy group of companies. ** -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hately, Mike (NESL-IT) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
