RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
IMHO, I believe it is because the recuriter's are trying to get the very best in potential candidates. Somewhat like that expression..."If you aim high, but only get..", whatever that expression is. -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 12:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oracle Don and others, Further food for our thoughts: It seems that the other trend (in the UK anyway) is to insist on ridiculous combination of skills when a DBA job is specified to the agencies (recruiters). Try this one: The ad. heading says something like "senior Oracle DBA" but when you look at the list of "must haves", you see that quite apart from being a very experienced Oracle DBA and knowledge of most Oracle tools (hmmthat's OK), you have to have: 1) A significant amount of something like SYBASE experience 2) A First Degree from a "red brick" University (Cambridge or Oxford) 3) Several years of Java Development in a J2EE environment Now, my first thought is this: if I had a "first" from an Oxbridge University, why the h*ll would I want to be a DBA Martin -Original Message- Granaman Sent: 10 November 2001 09:05 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oracle I can sympathize with Yosi. I resigned my last position in June after four years of insanely intense activity. For example, being the only DBA in a two year period of 1500% growth, averaging 90+ hours a week in 1999, 80+ in 2000, etc... I was at the highest attainable technical level in a rather large internet-based company (3000+ employees, 350+ in IT) - reporting directly to the VP of Enterprise Infrastructure as his chief technology consultant (emphasis on Oracle and back-end systems design & architecture). I won't go into all my reasons for leaving, but I decided to quit and take a break for a month or two. For the first month or so, I was ducking/deferring recruiters. Then things just dried up - totally... Since then, my situation has been similar to Yosi 's. I do a few technical presentations to the local Oracle user group, attend seminars, play around with 9i, read a lot of white papers, and do a (very) little bit of independent consulting. Not one of the three recruiters I've been dealing with have even called in over two months now. I went in for my first interview in three months yesterday - a small startup technology company - but they are really looking to hire a mid-range DBA at an entry-level salary. I've been doing nothing but Oracle on Unix for over a dozen years and have outstanding credentials and references. Its not exactly a perfect fit. An earlier post asked why DBAs should be more vulnerable than others. Rachel stated the essence of the problem - DBA isn't like development. If the job is done properly and everything is running smoothly, the attitude is "What does a DBA do anyway? Do we actually need one?" When things go bad, its often the DBA or SA that gets hit in the blamestorming - justified or not. Development is very visible when they do things - users see a direct result. When things go bad, they often blame the system or the database. (I've actually heard development managers and developers tell the CIO that "Application design and coding doesn't have anything to do with performance - that's the DBA's job"!) Just look at the posts here and on the Lazy-DBA list (much more so) in the last six months or so. A *LOT* more of them are of the type "We laid off our DBA two months ago and I was assigned to take over the DBA duties". Followed by "A disk went bad and now the database is down. What should I do?" or "How should I layout my database?" or "How do I do a backup?" or ... There are tons of very elementary questions from people who have taken over DBA duties from someone who was laid off or left and wasn't replaced. Many more than in the past. Too many companies are: 1) Not replacing DBAs that leave 2) Laying off DBAs (The rest are supposed to "work smarter, not harder." A statement from PHB that is often immediately followed with or preceded by with some decree that forces the opposite! ;-) 3) Trying to hire DBAs at drastically lower salaries (40%-70%) (monster.com and dice.com are interesting reads!) The demand for Oracle DBAs won't reach the extremes of 1999-2000 again for many years - if ever. The dot-com fiasco pushed it to artificial highs. However, there is still a huge difference between many years, perhaps even a decade or two, of serious experience and an OCP with a year that a lot of companies don't seem to want to recognize right now. The net result of this could easily be a frenzy of job shifting when the economy does recover and demand goes back up. Frankly, I'm almost ready to join Jenny and make a radical career change. My uncle wants to retire from his successful hardware store business. I'm considering buying it. (Hmmm... What about he Menards/HomeDepot/... effect?) -Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Me
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
RS It's very difficult to deal with people when you're kept s busy and isolated! I know that I can get very focused and forget about other people around me and their "menial" jobs when mine is the important job since I'm the DBA! Randy Kirkpatrick (303)772-7467 -Original Message- From: Sakthi , Raj [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:01 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O Randy , I am sourly lacking in people's skills..thats the point I was trying to make..(which didn't work..Obviously..!!). When I am working 42 hours continuously I don't have time to think about hurting somebody's delicate feelings. RS --- Randy Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > RS > > That doesn't sound like good people skills ... > just that you don't put up with any $ # ! ? ... > Good people skills would leave them thinking their > "whimsies were entertained" and you wouldn't call > developers - "duhvelopers" > (even if they are duhveloping with half a brain!) > > Randy Kirkpatrick > > > -Original Message- > From: Sakthi , Raj [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:25 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in > the UK - Seeking an O > > Wellwhen it comes to people skills I am THE > winner > in my company.every Duhveloper and some went and > complained that I don't entertain their whimsies and > Fancies to CIO ( they put it much harsher, of > course..;) ).But you know ,when you have 20 database > and 3 OS and few Java duhvelopers let loose in the > system , then you don't have a chance to look at > your > apartment in daylight...heck last week I was in same > clothes for 42 Hours straight recovering 150 GB > Monster from a 'rolling disaster'. Say anything else > but don't say my Job is not complex...Thank God I > love > what I do. > > Cheers, > RS > > --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel - Thanks for sharing some tips. I think > that > > in hard times it is > > worth considering how valuable you are considered > by > > the people that pay > > your salary. > > Aside for the objective or "true" value of the > DBA > > to the > > organization, I think there are two other aspects. > > 1. How perceptive your manager is. We can't pick > > our boss (usually) > > and can't control their technical background or > > their perceptiveness. I have > > had some non-technical managers that were > remarkably > > perceptive. > > 2. Most of us didn't become DBA's because we had > > excellent > > communication skills. Most of us picked a > technical > > career because we > > noticed in school that we were better at figuring > > out technical puzzles. > > Often we tend to concentrate on resolving the > > puzzles as quickly as possible > > and ignore the communication aspect, assuming that > > everyone will see that we > > are busy and will assume that we are doing really > > important stuff that > > nobody else is smart enough to figure out. > > However, these assumptions don't always pan out. > > Recently my company > > made a larger commitment to Oracle (not in terms > of > > the DBA staff, I'm still > > soloing). I thought this was great because I > > interpreted it as more job > > security. However, suddenly there was more > emphasis > > on ability to > > communicate. I am now working on ways to enhance > my > > "people skills". The > > book I have found that speaks in simple enough > terms > > for me is Dale > > Carnegie's classic "How to Win Friends and > Influence > > People". Any other > > resources along these lines would be appreciated. > > Most of the current > > self-help books are more along the lines of "how > to > > get rich". Gave that > > idea up a long time ago. > > Dennis Williams > > DBA > > Lifetouch, Inc. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 2:15 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > O > > > > > > my boss asked me to stop including him on all the > > emails etc. > > > > he says "if I don't say anything to you then you >
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
Randy , I am sourly lacking in people's skills..thats the point I was trying to make..(which didn't work..Obviously..!!). When I am working 42 hours continuously I don't have time to think about hurting somebody's delicate feelings. RS --- Randy Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > RS > > That doesn't sound like good people skills ... > just that you don't put up with any $ # ! ? ... > Good people skills would leave them thinking their > "whimsies were entertained" and you wouldn't call > developers - "duhvelopers" > (even if they are duhveloping with half a brain!) > > Randy Kirkpatrick > > > -Original Message- > From: Sakthi , Raj [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:25 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in > the UK - Seeking an O > > Wellwhen it comes to people skills I am THE > winner > in my company.every Duhveloper and some went and > complained that I don't entertain their whimsies and > Fancies to CIO ( they put it much harsher, of > course..;) ).But you know ,when you have 20 database > and 3 OS and few Java duhvelopers let loose in the > system , then you don't have a chance to look at > your > apartment in daylight...heck last week I was in same > clothes for 42 Hours straight recovering 150 GB > Monster from a 'rolling disaster'. Say anything else > but don't say my Job is not complex...Thank God I > love > what I do. > > Cheers, > RS > > --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel - Thanks for sharing some tips. I think > that > > in hard times it is > > worth considering how valuable you are considered > by > > the people that pay > > your salary. > > Aside for the objective or "true" value of the > DBA > > to the > > organization, I think there are two other aspects. > > 1. How perceptive your manager is. We can't pick > > our boss (usually) > > and can't control their technical background or > > their perceptiveness. I have > > had some non-technical managers that were > remarkably > > perceptive. > > 2. Most of us didn't become DBA's because we had > > excellent > > communication skills. Most of us picked a > technical > > career because we > > noticed in school that we were better at figuring > > out technical puzzles. > > Often we tend to concentrate on resolving the > > puzzles as quickly as possible > > and ignore the communication aspect, assuming that > > everyone will see that we > > are busy and will assume that we are doing really > > important stuff that > > nobody else is smart enough to figure out. > > However, these assumptions don't always pan out. > > Recently my company > > made a larger commitment to Oracle (not in terms > of > > the DBA staff, I'm still > > soloing). I thought this was great because I > > interpreted it as more job > > security. However, suddenly there was more > emphasis > > on ability to > > communicate. I am now working on ways to enhance > my > > "people skills". The > > book I have found that speaks in simple enough > terms > > for me is Dale > > Carnegie's classic "How to Win Friends and > Influence > > People". Any other > > resources along these lines would be appreciated. > > Most of the current > > self-help books are more along the lines of "how > to > > get rich". Gave that > > idea up a long time ago. > > Dennis Williams > > DBA > > Lifetouch, Inc. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 2:15 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > O > > > > > > my boss asked me to stop including him on all the > > emails etc. > > > > he says "if I don't say anything to you then you > are > > doing a good job" > > > > I say "I need you to be my boss" > > > > we are a small group and everyone seems to speak > at > > mega-volume. > > Everyone knows what everyone else's problem is and > > who fixed it and > > how. > > > > My teammates know what I do -- I tell them they > > don't really need me, > > but that's because we have it under control. They > > tell me I'm nuts -- > > and I have to say,
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
Raj, One small suggestion: If maintaining many db's leaves you with less time to attend to the developer's questions or developers' requirements, bring up this case to your boss. Put it to him in such a way that the company requires another DBA. In that way, you would be doing two services in this troubled times. 1. You would be providing a job to a guy. 2. You would be left free to attend to your production tasks. Due to financial constraints, if your company could not appoint another DBA, then, at least your boss and the management would be aware WHY you could not attend to the developers requests quickly. In my experience, I found that having good relationships in the company with as many as you can, would give you advantage when you most require it. Do not leave anybody with an empty feeling that his/her request isn't important. Even if it is not important, try to explain your priorities to them. Over a period of time, very quickly the developers would start understanding your problems and they would start respecting you and appreciate the job you do. Rao -Original Message- Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 8:31 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L O good people skills -- you leave them smiling even when you tell them no they can't have what they want. You are not arbitrary about decisions, you explain WHY something won't work and offer an alternative that will. You smile at people, get to their work as quickly as you can, explain delays when you can't. Oh, and you ask "how are you" and LISTEN for the answer :) Rachel --- Randy Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > RS > > That doesn't sound like good people skills ... > just that you don't put up with any $ # ! ? ... > Good people skills would leave them thinking their > "whimsies were entertained" and you wouldn't call developers - > "duhvelopers" > (even if they are duhveloping with half a brain!) > > Randy Kirkpatrick > > > -Original Message- > From: Sakthi , Raj [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:25 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking > an O > > Wellwhen it comes to people skills I am THE winner > in my company.every Duhveloper and some went and > complained that I don't entertain their whimsies and > Fancies to CIO ( they put it much harsher, of > course..;) ).But you know ,when you have 20 database > and 3 OS and few Java duhvelopers let loose in the > system , then you don't have a chance to look at your > apartment in daylight...heck last week I was in same > clothes for 42 Hours straight recovering 150 GB > Monster from a 'rolling disaster'. Say anything else > but don't say my Job is not complex...Thank God I love > what I do. > > Cheers, > RS > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rao, Maheswara INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
good people skills -- you leave them smiling even when you tell them no they can't have what they want. You are not arbitrary about decisions, you explain WHY something won't work and offer an alternative that will. You smile at people, get to their work as quickly as you can, explain delays when you can't. Oh, and you ask "how are you" and LISTEN for the answer :) Rachel --- Randy Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > RS > > That doesn't sound like good people skills ... > just that you don't put up with any $ # ! ? ... > Good people skills would leave them thinking their > "whimsies were entertained" and you wouldn't call developers - > "duhvelopers" > (even if they are duhveloping with half a brain!) > > Randy Kirkpatrick > > > -Original Message- > From: Sakthi , Raj [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:25 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking > an O > > Wellwhen it comes to people skills I am THE winner > in my company.every Duhveloper and some went and > complained that I don't entertain their whimsies and > Fancies to CIO ( they put it much harsher, of > course..;) ).But you know ,when you have 20 database > and 3 OS and few Java duhvelopers let loose in the > system , then you don't have a chance to look at your > apartment in daylight...heck last week I was in same > clothes for 42 Hours straight recovering 150 GB > Monster from a 'rolling disaster'. Say anything else > but don't say my Job is not complex...Thank God I love > what I do. > > Cheers, > RS > > --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rachel - Thanks for sharing some tips. I think that > > in hard times it is > > worth considering how valuable you are considered by > > the people that pay > > your salary. > > Aside for the objective or "true" value of the DBA > > to the > > organization, I think there are two other aspects. > > 1. How perceptive your manager is. We can't pick > > our boss (usually) > > and can't control their technical background or > > their perceptiveness. I have > > had some non-technical managers that were remarkably > > perceptive. > > 2. Most of us didn't become DBA's because we had > > excellent > > communication skills. Most of us picked a technical > > career because we > > noticed in school that we were better at figuring > > out technical puzzles. > > Often we tend to concentrate on resolving the > > puzzles as quickly as possible > > and ignore the communication aspect, assuming that > > everyone will see that we > > are busy and will assume that we are doing really > > important stuff that > > nobody else is smart enough to figure out. > > However, these assumptions don't always pan out. > > Recently my company > > made a larger commitment to Oracle (not in terms of > > the DBA staff, I'm still > > soloing). I thought this was great because I > > interpreted it as more job > > security. However, suddenly there was more emphasis > > on ability to > > communicate. I am now working on ways to enhance my > > "people skills". The > > book I have found that speaks in simple enough terms > > for me is Dale > > Carnegie's classic "How to Win Friends and Influence > > People". Any other > > resources along these lines would be appreciated. > > Most of the current > > self-help books are more along the lines of "how to > > get rich". Gave that > > idea up a long time ago. > > Dennis Williams > > DBA > > Lifetouch, Inc. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 2:15 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > O > > > > > > my boss asked me to stop including him on all the > > emails etc. > > > > he says "if I don't say anything to you then you are > > doing a good job" > > > > I say "I need you to be my boss" > > > > we are a small group and everyone seems to speak at > > mega-volume. > > Everyone knows what everyone else's problem is and > > who fixed it and > > how. > > > > My teammates know what I do -- I tell them they > > don't really need me, > > but that's because we have it under control. They &g
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
I remember we had procedures at the State. And what I would sometimes use was along the lines of: "You realize that you have not followed the procedures, but you want to put it into production? I'm willing to do that, but first you'll need to sign a release that you accept responsibility for any problems this may cause to the production applications" That usually got a "fall back and punt..." Like Rachel, for the longest time I was it. I had to be present for "final review" and often during some of the early meetings. There were times I was "lucky" and caught that two applications were doing a lot of manipulating of the same data and would come up with ways we might possibly share... Some were kind of ugly systems as well, average record may be over 800 characters and perhaps 40-60 fields. And with clinic cases, birth records, etc., you may not want to fully normalize. If 90% of the record matches only matched a difficult table for one code, why not put the other code in the record as well? Those kinds of things. I guess basically the "Application DBA" side would try to catch the problems BEFORE they started. Maks. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of DENNIS > WILLIAMS > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:00 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an > O > > > Cherie - Thanks for your feedback and thanks to other people. I participated > in Toastmasters for many years and believe that it provided substantial > benefits. The strongest benefits are the ability to make a formal > presentation to a group of people. That can help dispel the image that you > are just some techie that works down in the bowels of the organization. > There are benefits even in one-on-one discussions, where you can apply some > of the techniques such as eye contact and natural use of your hands. I > arranged an interview between my boss and a colleague from a previous job. > Despite stellar technical capabilities that I am in awe of, my friend didn't > get the job because he stared at the floor during the entire interview. An > experienced Toastmaster wouldn't make that mistake. > I think there are other aspects to the issue of communication and > ultimately communicating value to people. I find that I have a tendency to > concentrate very strongly on projects. Obviously working on production > systems you need to pay attention to what you are doing. However, developers > may just feel that you are an old grouch that never pays attention to their > projects, and naturally everyone feels that their project is the most > important. This is where I am trying to apply some of Dale Carnegie's > principles. But you have to be careful. Spend too much time chatting and > they get the idea you don't have enough to do. > I work for corporate and we support the company divisions. Corporate > is an expense and only the divisions make profits. It is easy for each > division to feel that they aren't getting their money's worth from your > efforts. Similar to Rachel's idea, my manager has recently been organizing > regular meetings with each division's IS manager to discuss their projects > and their priorities. This has helped a lot in terms of making them feel > that we see their priorities correctly, that I am doing the work they need, > and when one of the developers asks me to create some tables I don't react > so defensively, wondering why this is so darned short notice. Instead I say > "oh yeah, your boss said that you were working on this really critical > project, let's get this set up right away." > I don't mean to imply that I've "mastered" this communication thing. > I think these "softer" areas of human behavior require continual work and > effort. I think that computers and databases are becoming more critical to > all organizations and we are expected to communicate better. These tough > times are a good opportunity for each of us to assess how well we > communicate the value of what we do. > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 6:20 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > O > > > > Dennis, > > We are starting up a Toastmasters group here where I work. I've always > wanted to try that > so I'm going to the introductory meeting today. > > Do you have access to a Toastmasters meeting at your work? I've heard a > lot of good things > about Toastmasters and I&#x
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
RS That doesn't sound like good people skills ... just that you don't put up with any $ # ! ? ... Good people skills would leave them thinking their "whimsies were entertained" and you wouldn't call developers - "duhvelopers" (even if they are duhveloping with half a brain!) Randy Kirkpatrick -Original Message- From: Sakthi , Raj [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O Wellwhen it comes to people skills I am THE winner in my company.every Duhveloper and some went and complained that I don't entertain their whimsies and Fancies to CIO ( they put it much harsher, of course..;) ).But you know ,when you have 20 database and 3 OS and few Java duhvelopers let loose in the system , then you don't have a chance to look at your apartment in daylight...heck last week I was in same clothes for 42 Hours straight recovering 150 GB Monster from a 'rolling disaster'. Say anything else but don't say my Job is not complex...Thank God I love what I do. Cheers, RS --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rachel - Thanks for sharing some tips. I think that > in hard times it is > worth considering how valuable you are considered by > the people that pay > your salary. > Aside for the objective or "true" value of the DBA > to the > organization, I think there are two other aspects. > 1. How perceptive your manager is. We can't pick > our boss (usually) > and can't control their technical background or > their perceptiveness. I have > had some non-technical managers that were remarkably > perceptive. > 2. Most of us didn't become DBA's because we had > excellent > communication skills. Most of us picked a technical > career because we > noticed in school that we were better at figuring > out technical puzzles. > Often we tend to concentrate on resolving the > puzzles as quickly as possible > and ignore the communication aspect, assuming that > everyone will see that we > are busy and will assume that we are doing really > important stuff that > nobody else is smart enough to figure out. > However, these assumptions don't always pan out. > Recently my company > made a larger commitment to Oracle (not in terms of > the DBA staff, I'm still > soloing). I thought this was great because I > interpreted it as more job > security. However, suddenly there was more emphasis > on ability to > communicate. I am now working on ways to enhance my > "people skills". The > book I have found that speaks in simple enough terms > for me is Dale > Carnegie's classic "How to Win Friends and Influence > People". Any other > resources along these lines would be appreciated. > Most of the current > self-help books are more along the lines of "how to > get rich". Gave that > idea up a long time ago. > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 2:15 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > O > > > my boss asked me to stop including him on all the > emails etc. > > he says "if I don't say anything to you then you are > doing a good job" > > I say "I need you to be my boss" > > we are a small group and everyone seems to speak at > mega-volume. > Everyone knows what everyone else's problem is and > who fixed it and > how. > > My teammates know what I do -- I tell them they > don't really need me, > but that's because we have it under control. They > tell me I'm nuts -- > and I have to say, it's gratifying to hear "thank > goodness you are > back" whenever I come back from vacation. > > > --- Kimberly Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > The way around that is to actually let them know > what preventative > > stuff you did. I provide my manager with a weekly > report and in > > there > > is a section called "application maintenance and > administration". > > I even put in there when I spend time with a > developer showing them > > some SQL or PL/SQL tricks. > > > > Now, my teammates think I do nothing. Even after > I sit there for > > an hour helping them out. Just cause I do my job > right the first > > time > > and there really are no issues. But they don't > really count. > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Tuesday, Nove
RE: Another Oracle DBA gets "The Bullet" in the UK - Seeking an O
did you find an ora-600 in the log; --- Hallas John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Years ago I was coerced into entering a public > speaking course at work. > We had to each prepare a speech and then present to > our group (of about 12 > plus tutor). Listening to everybody else was > embarassing and I was certainly > no better. > We had about 5 coaching sessions, always in a group > and then we had a final > re-reading of our by now improved speeches. > It was quite astounding seeing the transformation, > everybody seemed so much > more at ease, comfortable with themselves and with > the audience. > The final test was an competition where we had to > present to about 60 > members of a womens lunch group at a large hotel. > > Everyone of us was filled with trepidation and I > really had to fight just > not to ring in sick for the day. > > Needless to say, each and every one of us came > across as comfortable about > speaking in public and we were all so pleased both > with ourselves and each > other. > > I treasure that course and learned so much from it. > I would still not > volunteer to speak in public but when I have to do > at a large meeting or > similar occasion I know what should be doing and try > to concentrate on that. > > If I mention alert log does this make it on topic? > > John > > > > -Original Message- > Sent: 08 November 2001 15:00 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > O > > > Cherie - Thanks for your feedback and thanks to > other people. I participated > in Toastmasters for many years and believe that it > provided substantial > benefits. The strongest benefits are the ability to > make a formal > presentation to a group of people. That can help > dispel the image that you > are just some techie that works down in the bowels > of the organization. > There are benefits even in one-on-one discussions, > where you can apply some > of the techniques such as eye contact and natural > use of your hands. I > arranged an interview between my boss and a > colleague from a previous job. > Despite stellar technical capabilities that I am in > awe of, my friend didn't > get the job because he stared at the floor during > the entire interview. An > experienced Toastmaster wouldn't make that mistake. > I think there are other aspects to the issue of > communication and > ultimately communicating value to people. I find > that I have a tendency to > concentrate very strongly on projects. Obviously > working on production > systems you need to pay attention to what you are > doing. However, developers > may just feel that you are an old grouch that never > pays attention to their > projects, and naturally everyone feels that their > project is the most > important. This is where I am trying to apply some > of Dale Carnegie's > principles. But you have to be careful. Spend too > much time chatting and > they get the idea you don't have enough to do. > I work for corporate and we support the company > divisions. Corporate > is an expense and only the divisions make profits. > It is easy for each > division to feel that they aren't getting their > money's worth from your > efforts. Similar to Rachel's idea, my manager has > recently been organizing > regular meetings with each division's IS manager to > discuss their projects > and their priorities. This has helped a lot in terms > of making them feel > that we see their priorities correctly, that I am > doing the work they need, > and when one of the developers asks me to create > some tables I don't react > so defensively, wondering why this is so darned > short notice. Instead I say > "oh yeah, your boss said that you were working on > this really critical > project, let's get this set up right away." > I don't mean to imply that I've "mastered" this > communication thing. > I think these "softer" areas of human behavior > require continual work and > effort. I think that computers and databases are > becoming more critical to > all organizations and we are expected to > communicate better. These tough > times are a good opportunity for each of us to > assess how well we > communicate the value of what we do. > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 6:20 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > O > > > > Dennis, > > We are starting up a Toastmasters group here where I > work. I've always > wanted to try that > so I'm going to the introductory meeting today. > > Do you have access to a Toastmasters meeting at your > work? I've heard a > lot of good things > about Toastmasters and I'm sure it would help > interpersonal communications > some. > > Cherie Machler > Oracle DBA > Gelco Information Network > > > > > DENNIS WILLIAMS > > Multiple recipients of > list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > TOUCH.COM>cc: > >
