Re: Re: Application DBA
- Original Message - Degree/OCP achievement doesn't teach f all - in my opinion - though it does prove your memory isn't shot. I can think of much cheaper and much more reliable and credible ways of checking my memory... :) lot. The reason, for example, that I personally prefer graduates to non-graduates *experience equal* is that generally graduates are better thinkers and problem solvers. Agreed 100%. But OCP is NOT a graduation, and it will NEVER be one. Until it is part of an official education syllabus. And not part of Larry's or any other commercial organization's pockets. And yes, I'm against private education. For a number of reasons that are not pertinent here. is worth it, the certificate probably not. Of course as far as recruiters are concerned ensuring your CV includes the words 'I don't have an OCP because...' followed by a decent explanation will generally get you through all the filters that say OCP required/preferred. Ain't software great. Hehehe! :D On architects, and at least in the UK, those who advertise themselves as such in the IT field are breaking the law http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/97022--f.htm#20 wish it was the same here Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re: Application DBA
- Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? For an application DBA? Exactly which part of the degree or OCP prepares or qualifies one for such a job specification? Matter of fact, where is application DBA defined in Oracle education or any other IT education organization? Which courses from Oracle prepare one for that? While we're there, I wish someone explained the same for database architect. Or architect, for that matter. As soon as someone does, and how can the OCP certification prepare one for everything up to and including the second coming, I'll go for it. Until then, I just see it as a low-life exploitation scheme to milk even more $$$ out of the customer base. Sorry if I sound cynical, but that's it. As I said: I'm open to an explanation. Never received it. Now, here: there are a few idiots around who insist that everyone working in a 9ir2 project must be OCP and have at least 5 years 9ir2 experience. They are the same that will insist on 5 years of 10g experience as soon as it comes out. As well as of course OCP. And that's for a job spec of code cutter. There are also those of course who don't give a damn, provided the person is an el-cheapo third-world recent arrival who can be had for peanuts and will accept any salary anyway. Usually these are the ones that run a project with 10 code cutters and 20 DBAs. Heck, DBAs can be sold for a much higher margin than a code cutter! And preciously next to nothing in between. pessimistic moah? Narh, just been there, done that and seen it all over again. It's all a sham. Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re: Application DBA
Mercadante, Thomas F scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: Bill, Did you point out to them how *freekin wrong* they had been?!?!?!?! I would not have been able to resist the free shot. ya never know when i'll need to find another contract, so i was very diplomatic. but damn it was hard.;-) actually i've given up getting past any HR department to get an interview for a real job and think i'll be contracting for the rest of my life. benefits? what are these benefits you speak of?;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA BAARF Party member #25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can't go home again, unless you set $HOME. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re: Application DBA
Noons writes For an application DBA? Exactly which part of the degree or OCP prepares or qualifies one for such a job specification? Matter of fact, where is application DBA defined in Oracle education or any other IT education organization? Which courses from Oracle prepare one for that? While we're there, I wish someone explained the same for database architect. Or architect, for that matter. Stand back in horror whilst I broadly agree with you again nuno. I do have some comments tho. Degree/OCP achievement doesn't teach f all - in my opinion - though it does prove your memory isn't shot. On the other hand if you have the nous then going through the education process will teach you a hell of a lot. The reason, for example, that I personally prefer graduates to non-graduates *experience equal* is that generally graduates are better thinkers and problem solvers. Comp.sci over history is a meaningless distinction in my book though. I'll also prefer Oxford to the University of the South Bank From a personal point of view I've done stuff on the OCP courses that I have never touched in real life - the education is worth it, the certificate probably not. Of course as far as recruiters are concerned ensuring your CV includes the words 'I don't have an OCP because...' followed by a decent explanation will generally get you through all the filters that say OCP required/preferred. Ain't software great. On architects, and at least in the UK, those who advertise themselves as such in the IT field are breaking the law http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/97022--f.htm#20 This is either a Good Thing (tm) or a Bad Thing (tm) cough designer cough Niall Off to add application DBA and database architect to his CV... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
I am wondering, if some people are called Development DBAs or Application Database Administrators, are there people called Database Database Administrators? Sounds kind of redundant. It seems to me if DBA (the acronym) wasn't used routinely as a word, and people lost track of what the acronym stands for, the term Application DBA would not even appear in conversation. Some people might be Developer Administrators. : ) Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In the usage I'm familiar with (I are one) an applications DBA is responsible for both the database and the apps stack in an Oracle Application's environment. What it means outside the hallowed Oracle Apps world is, wait for it, application dependant :-) Groans will be redeircted to a kill file! Allan -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/St yleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/Sty leGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
Or Business Systems Administrators... -Original Message- Sent: 03 September 2003 13:11 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I am wondering, if some people are called Development DBAs or Application Database Administrators, are there people called Database Database Administrators? Sounds kind of redundant. It seems to me if DBA (the acronym) wasn't used routinely as a word, and people lost track of what the acronym stands for, the term Application DBA would not even appear in conversation. Some people might be Developer Administrators. : ) Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In the usage I'm familiar with (I are one) an applications DBA is responsible for both the database and the apps stack in an Oracle Application's environment. What it means outside the hallowed Oracle Apps world is, wait for it, application dependant :-) Groans will be redeircted to a kill file! Allan -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/St yleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/Sty leGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other
RE: Application DBA
Here we call them application administrators who typically take care of what we call 'file and table' maintenance of an application's look-up tables. v/r Stephen S. Wolfe, GS-11, DAFC Data Services Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] (813) 827-9974 DSN 651-9974 -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 4:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Application DBA Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/St yleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/Sty leGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Wolfe Stephen S GS-11 6 MDSS/SGSI INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
Title: RE: Application DBA Developer Administrators... not in this lifetime. There are some of our developers I don't want to 'administer'... it is too much fun watching/helping them learn. Once they come to terms with my sense of humor and realize that I want them to experiment and try new things, we have a great relationship. There are other developers I would LOVE to administer, but who don't take advice at all well. Those are the ones who try to edit production, refuse to provide information on what is being built in the database and who try to use unsupported tools in arenas where they don't belong. I think the distinction is more of a development dba as opposed to one who is responsible for major production systems. Development DBA may not be on call 24 X 7 but may be tasked (that has to be the WORST verb... tasked) with dealing with the developers in a bigger shop. Production DBAs deal with the bigger, critical databases and have the luxury (if that is how you want to think of it) of not having to deal so hands on with ongoing development. Personally... I just enjoy the variety... most of the time. =) April Wells Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA Corporate Systems Amarillo Texas Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite Adam Wells age 11 -Original Message- From: Boivin, Patrice J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 7:11 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Application DBA I am wondering, if some people are called Development DBAs or Application Database Administrators, are there people called Database Database Administrators? Sounds kind of redundant. It seems to me if DBA (the acronym) wasn't used routinely as a word, and people lost track of what the acronym stands for, the term Application DBA would not even appear in conversation. Some people might be Developer Administrators. : ) Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In the usage I'm familiar with (I are one) an applications DBA is responsible for both the database and the apps stack in an Oracle Application's environment. What it means outside the hallowed Oracle Apps world is, wait for it, application dependant :-) Groans will be redeircted to a kill file! Allan -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/St yleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/Sty leGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any
Re: Application DBA
i take 'applications dbas' when i see them advertised as jobs to mean a dba experienced with the the oracle applications like financials, etc... am i correct to assume this? From: Boivin, Patrice J [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/02 Tue PM 03:54:26 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Application DBA Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. Title: Message Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGuide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice.
Re: Application DBA
- Original Message - Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. sniperoo http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm and some will insist they be OCPs... Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re: Application DBA
more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? From: Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/03 Wed AM 07:19:25 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Application DBA - Original Message - Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. sniperoo http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm and some will insist they be OCPs... Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
not here... we are running Oracle Financials somewhere but not related to me, I don't interact with that group. Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 5:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L i take 'applications dbas' when i see them advertised as jobs to mean a dba experienced with the the oracle applications like financials, etc... am i correct to assume this? From: Boivin, Patrice J [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/02 Tue PM 03:54:26 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Application DBA Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re: Application DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? that they are and experience doesn't seem to count either. i was refused interviews for a number of jobs because i have neither a degree or an OCP. and while interviewed for others, they hired someone with a degree [in one case a degree in history] and no experience. i even had one place come back to me a couple of months after not hiring me, asking if i would work for them as a contractor to clean up the mess the person they did hire made. i had just taken this contract at the time so i graciously refused.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA BAARF Party member #25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it. - Albert Einstein -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re: Application DBA
im going with the flow. doing a Masters(company is paying for it) and doing my OCP. Ill probably go cert happy over time... do java,solaris, etc... I know for a fact not having a computer science degree hurt me. I was told it. So if employers want something, Ill give it to them. As long as a company has tuition reimbursement, I dont see why not to use it? Im going to grad school for free. Gotta give people what they want. btw, Im learning alot of useful stuff in school. It does not make up for experience, but its very helpful. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:19 PM Bill, Did you point out to them how *freekin wrong* they had been?!?!?!?! I would not have been able to resist the free shot. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? that they are and experience doesn't seem to count either. i was refused interviews for a number of jobs because i have neither a degree or an OCP. and while interviewed for others, they hired someone with a degree [in one case a degree in history] and no experience. i even had one place come back to me a couple of months after not hiring me, asking if i would work for them as a contractor to clean up the mess the person they did hire made. i had just taken this contract at the time so i graciously refused.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA BAARF Party member #25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it. - Albert Einstein -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re: Application DBA
Bill, Did you point out to them how *freekin wrong* they had been?!?!?!?! I would not have been able to resist the free shot. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? that they are and experience doesn't seem to count either. i was refused interviews for a number of jobs because i have neither a degree or an OCP. and while interviewed for others, they hired someone with a degree [in one case a degree in history] and no experience. i even had one place come back to me a couple of months after not hiring me, asking if i would work for them as a contractor to clean up the mess the person they did hire made. i had just taken this contract at the time so i graciously refused.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA BAARF Party member #25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it. - Albert Einstein -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re: Application DBA
Back in India, the academic qualification is weighed more than anything else. Guys from institutes like Indian Institute of Technology IITs / Indian Institue Management (IIT/IM) (to quote an example) are treated as demi-godes and look at with awe (even if the guy doesn't know anything about Oracle). For that matter i have worked with both the category. Currently i have few such people working with me and the guys are average except one. The problem with these guys is not lack of potential, but they do not apply themselves in their chosen profession. One cannot sit back on past laurels (Surprisingly Indian market looks only at that). In this profession, things keep changing every day and one has to keep himself/herself. So what if someone is qualified. I have come across some DBAs who are just graduates but who can take on the best. Period. I for that matter was not getting calls for interviews till i forced myself to clear OCP. Indian market atleast expects some of the following: Academic qual / Certification / H1B (not necessarily in that order). If you have H1B or you are already in US they care a damn for your qualification. Because they can market you and can get some commission. I have seen situations where a graduate with 10-12 yrs exp (like the guys i quoted above who have solid exp. in Application/DBA/Languages) simply bypassed and some other joker with no relevant exp but is from IIT/IIM chosen for the post of Tech.Lead. Strange but true. GovindanK [EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? that they are and experience doesn't seem to count either. i was refused interviews for a number of jobs because i have neither a degree or an OCP. and while interviewed for others, they hired someone with a degree [in one case a degree in history] and no experience. i even had one place come back to me a couple of months after not hiring me, asking if i would work for them as a contractor to clean up the mess the person they did hire made. i had just taken this contract at the time so i graciously refused.;-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re: Application DBA
William, I did my OCP because of the same reason. My student was given preference by one recruiter who did OCP and my resume kept on a side because I was not OCP. My 10 years experience in 1998 was not counted agianst 1 year experience + OCP of my student. Yes, this happened in USA. Now a days I got a short term assignment because I am OCP 9i and US Citizen(because client is defence contractor). Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:59:27 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: more and more employers are requiring OCPs and 'related degrees' such as computer science or a masters degree. At least in the US they are. How are things in other parts of the world? that they are and experience doesn't seem to count either. i was refused interviews for a number of jobs because i have neither a degree or an OCP. and while interviewed for others, they hired someone with a degree [in one case a degree in history] and no experience. i even had one place come back to me a couple of months after not hiring me, asking if i would work for them as a contractor to clean up the mess the person they did hire made. i had just taken this contract at the time so i graciously refused.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA BAARF Party member #25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it. - Albert Einstein -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get 10MB of e-mail storage! Sign up for Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: M Rafiq INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
Title: Message Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Boivin, Patrice JSent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: "Application DBA" Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGuide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice.
RE: Application DBA
Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/StyleGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
In the usage I'm familiar with (I are one) an applications DBA is responsible for both the database and the apps stack in an Oracle Application's environment. What it means outside the hallowed Oracle Apps world is, wait for it, application dependant :-) Groans will be redeircted to a kill file! Allan -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/St yleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/Sty leGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Application DBA
Title: RE: Application DBA devnull April Wells Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA Corporate Systems Amarillo Texas Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite Adam Wells age 11 -Original Message- From: Nelson, Allan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 4:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Application DBA In the usage I'm familiar with (I are one) an applications DBA is responsible for both the database and the apps stack in an Oracle Application's environment. What it means outside the hallowed Oracle Apps world is, wait for it, application dependant :-) Groans will be redeircted to a kill file! Allan -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Patrice, Stephane My 2 cents worth. I have seen differences between administering an Oracle database that is hosting an in-house developed application compared to administering and Oracle database that is hosting a third-party application. In one case you get to know the developers, negotiate with them, etc. In the other case you get to know how the application uses Oracle. I don't know if that is what is meant by application DBA. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Usually, the term used is devlopment DBA. Stephane Paquette?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Boivin, Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:54 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone sent me this URL when I mentioned that there may be Application Administrators, but no Application DBAs. http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/St yleG uide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/oit/SDM/inHTML/HtmlFiles/SDM/Sty leGu ide/SECURITYANDACCESSPOLICY.htm Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is strictly confidential and for the intended use of the addressee only; it may also contain proprietary, price sensitive, or legally privileged information. Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, distribution, dissemination, use, or copying of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail, delete this communication, and destroy all copies. Corporate Systems, Inc. has taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. We specifically disclaim all liability and will accept no responsibility for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
Re: Application DBA vs. DBA vs. Application Administrator
Hi, just to throw my 2 (still Pfennigs) in, I used to work as a production DBA up till 1998, then moved to a more development DBA/ developer style job. I can only say that it is a hundred percent right (eventhough complete bu*$%hit) that development (especially analysis and design) has a much higher visibility then production. I guess that has to do with the fact, that as a development guy, you tend to sit on the lap of the manager/user in charge of the development whereas in production it's more like as long as everything works, nobody notices that you even exist. On the other hand, I'm also sick of getting bashed for putting too much efford into a good design using what Oracle has to offer, performance tuning while still being in development and so on. Usually, I'm confronted with interesting statements like Why bother teaching developers about differences between Oracle and DB2, isn't it all SQL afterall ? and similar sh*§$t. Actually, since the situation for DBAing isn't that great here anymore, I might even move completely to development (where's was my data structure book again ?). cheers, Stefan DENNIS WILLIAMS schrieb: Patrice - I think the previous discussion was not referring to application developers that had appointed themselves to be an application DBA but to honest-to-goodness certified, card-carrying Oracle DBAs, some of whom tend to work with new development. I agree with you that DBA has the word administer in it which is inherently different from developer. My interpretation of the previous discussion is that our workload as DBAs tends to be split between production support and development support. Some of us DBAs tend to migrate our careers toward jobs that involve almost entirely production support, while others crave the excitement of development situations. When a large application is developed and then moved into production, it is not unusual to see the DBA that shepherded the development to move onto another development project and be replaced by a DBA with a history of maintaining production databases. However, we must remember that developers come in a wide range of database capabilities. With some developers it is important to keep them on a tight reign so they don't do something that will cause problems in the future. Some developers have excellent database skills and may even have previously been a DBA (I know that is hard to believe, why would anyone give up the mad, carefree DBA life). I feel that you need to adapt your style to accommodate differences in development groups, development tools (some cause more DBA headaches than others), company politics, etc. The part that I struggle with is that I am the sole DBA for a group of production databases and I also support 4 separate groups of developers, each with their own competencies and tools. When push comes to shove (about every day), I tend to work on keeping the production databases going at the expense of sitting down with the developers to find what they are up to, coach them on modeling, etc. My manager doesn't always understand why I don't have time to keep the development side of my job going. In terms of justifying my salary, the development stuff has a lot more visibility. If anyone has any tips for balancing these two areas of responsibility I am eager to listen. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sorry to sound harsh, but in my opinion Application DBA is an oxymoron. There are database administrators, these can advise on how best to build the underlying data structures if need be. =20 Sometimes developers have to tune their applications, proper design is part of that process. This does not make them Application DBAs. There are application administrators, these administer applications like SAP, Oracle Applications, boiler-plate applications, in-house programs that need constant tweaking and improvement, etc. We went through this here a couple of years ago, the developers kept referring to their Application DBAs when in fact they design and develop applications, then tweak them -- they are Application Architects perhaps, Application Administrators probably, but Database Administrators? No. This smells like developers not having enough to do. Sometimes for whatever reason they want to start doing DBA-type work to fill their gap times and to increase their control over the machines. Not a good thing, most often when we are handed a server from end users or developers, the servers are a mess. Main reason: Developers tend to work by trial and error, and to build things over time. And... if it ain't broke, don't fix it usually implies: No planning ahead, no tuning or monitoring if there aren't any glaring problems, if there is one patch it up if it's a faster way to get by. That is neither
RE: Application DBA vs. DBA vs. Application Administrator
Patrice - I think the previous discussion was not referring to application developers that had appointed themselves to be an application DBA but to honest-to-goodness certified, card-carrying Oracle DBAs, some of whom tend to work with new development. I agree with you that DBA has the word administer in it which is inherently different from developer. My interpretation of the previous discussion is that our workload as DBAs tends to be split between production support and development support. Some of us DBAs tend to migrate our careers toward jobs that involve almost entirely production support, while others crave the excitement of development situations. When a large application is developed and then moved into production, it is not unusual to see the DBA that shepherded the development to move onto another development project and be replaced by a DBA with a history of maintaining production databases. However, we must remember that developers come in a wide range of database capabilities. With some developers it is important to keep them on a tight reign so they don't do something that will cause problems in the future. Some developers have excellent database skills and may even have previously been a DBA (I know that is hard to believe, why would anyone give up the mad, carefree DBA life). I feel that you need to adapt your style to accommodate differences in development groups, development tools (some cause more DBA headaches than others), company politics, etc. The part that I struggle with is that I am the sole DBA for a group of production databases and I also support 4 separate groups of developers, each with their own competencies and tools. When push comes to shove (about every day), I tend to work on keeping the production databases going at the expense of sitting down with the developers to find what they are up to, coach them on modeling, etc. My manager doesn't always understand why I don't have time to keep the development side of my job going. In terms of justifying my salary, the development stuff has a lot more visibility. If anyone has any tips for balancing these two areas of responsibility I am eager to listen. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sorry to sound harsh, but in my opinion Application DBA is an oxymoron. There are database administrators, these can advise on how best to build the underlying data structures if need be. Sometimes developers have to tune their applications, proper design is part of that process. This does not make them Application DBAs. There are application administrators, these administer applications like SAP, Oracle Applications, boiler-plate applications, in-house programs that need constant tweaking and improvement, etc. We went through this here a couple of years ago, the developers kept referring to their Application DBAs when in fact they design and develop applications, then tweak them -- they are Application Architects perhaps, Application Administrators probably, but Database Administrators? No. This smells like developers not having enough to do. Sometimes for whatever reason they want to start doing DBA-type work to fill their gap times and to increase their control over the machines. Not a good thing, most often when we are handed a server from end users or developers, the servers are a mess. Main reason: Developers tend to work by trial and error, and to build things over time. And... if it ain't broke, don't fix it usually implies: No planning ahead, no tuning or monitoring if there aren't any glaring problems, if there is one patch it up if it's a faster way to get by. That is neither database administration, nor system administration. My CDN$0.02 which is worth about US$0.0124 as of yesterday's dollar conversion. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author:
