RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



it stops me. I refuse to deliberately look like an idiot... I do enough damage
inadvertently




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Come on, Rachel!  "Zero Experence" has never stopped anyone from publishing.
Just look at academia and MCSE study guides...

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210-581-6217


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:19 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:   RE: Datawarehousing help
>
> you people are soo funny.  Writing a book takes time, hard work and
> more
> energy than I care to commit to the project.. especially on a subject with
> which
> I have zero experience
>
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RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Grabowy, Chris 

nuh uh, for two reasons, the first and foremost being, I was paying
attention when you spoke about "the joys" of authorship.

the second is that I was paying attention when you spoke about "the joys" of
authorship...  .. . .. ... .. .. .. . 

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 9:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




won't be me... why don't YOU write one and then talk to me about the joys of
authorship (says the woman going blind looking a page proofs that are
totally
messed up)




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Someone's got to pick up Marlene's slack...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




nuh uh, for two reasons, the first and foremost being, there already IS one

the second is that I have no plans to write any new books



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Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




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  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Scott . Shafer 

Come on, Rachel!  "Zero Experence" has never stopped anyone from publishing.
Just look at academia and MCSE study guides...

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210-581-6217


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:19 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: Datawarehousing help
> 
> you people are soo funny.  Writing a book takes time, hard work and
> more
> energy than I care to commit to the project.. especially on a subject with
> which
> I have zero experience
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
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RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



you people are soo funny.  Writing a book takes time, hard work and more
energy than I care to commit to the project.. especially on a subject with which
I have zero experience




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Oh, good idea!  When's it being published Rachel?

-Original Message-
Chris
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael)     |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


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  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I wor

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



won't be me... why don't YOU write one and then talk to me about the joys of
authorship (says the woman going blind looking a page proofs that are totally
messed up)




|+--->
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||  cgrabowy@fcg.|
||  com  |
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  |       Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Someone's got to pick up Marlene's slack...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




nuh uh, for two reasons, the first and foremost being, there already IS one

the second is that I have no plans to write any new books



|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  cgrabowy@fcg.|
||  com  |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  04:55 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Thomas Day 


I worked on a project with an Oracle 7.3.4 database and a SAS OLAP tool.
SAS built a datacube using the Oracle database but then the OLAP queries
went against the datacube.  It worked but we had some very knowledgeable
SAS users.



   

Yechiel Adar   

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent by: rootcc:   

 Subject:     Re: Datawarehousing help 

   

05/07/2002 

08:58 AM   

Please 

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   





Hello Rachel

I am working with SAS on the mainframe (os390) and it works fine.

We published a RFP for ETL tool and they are one of the candidates.
Their tool looks good on paper but we are still evaluating papers
and do not have hands on experience.

We do have a SAS/oracle application on NT but I was not involved
in the programming side.
I checked with the programmer and he told me that in the little testing
he did ( system still in test) SAS worked quickly and nicely
with oracle, including graphs. SAS has a nice graph generating option.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:13 PM


>
>
> Yechiel,
>
> have you used their tools? We are trying to decide whether or not to use
them,
> so if anyone has had recent experience with them, I'd appreciate your
thoughts
> on ease of use, understandability, quality of the product, etc
>
> Thanks
>
> Rachel
>
>
> |+--->
> ||   |
> ||   |
> ||  adaryechiel@h|
> ||  otmail.com   |
> ||   |
> ||  05/05/2002   |
> ||  07:23 AM |
> ||  Please   |
> ||  respond to   |
> ||  ORACLE-L |
> ||   |
> |+--->
>   >|
>   ||
>   |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]     |
>   |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
>   |   Subject: Re: Datawarehousing help|
>   >|
>
>
>
>
> Hello Dennis
>
> SAS has progressed a little in the last years and now offer a complete
> DW solution, including ETL tools.
>
> You can use their tools also to populate and query oracle.
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
>
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:48 AM
>
>
> > Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
> > origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
> > statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set
of
> > test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical
analyses.
> > Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is
that
I
> > would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
> Like
> > Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
> > To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
> > "Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
> > Instructions:
> >
> > For help with list commands, send a message
> > to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
> > word "help" in the body of the message.
> >
> > The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
> > information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the
leading
> > figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
>

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread Yechiel Adar 

Hello Rachel

I am working with SAS on the mainframe (os390) and it works fine.

We published a RFP for ETL tool and they are one of the candidates.
Their tool looks good on paper but we are still evaluating papers
and do not have hands on experience.

We do have a SAS/oracle application on NT but I was not involved
in the programming side.
I checked with the programmer and he told me that in the little testing
he did ( system still in test) SAS worked quickly and nicely
with oracle, including graphs. SAS has a nice graph generating option.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:13 PM


>
>
> Yechiel,
>
> have you used their tools? We are trying to decide whether or not to use
them,
> so if anyone has had recent experience with them, I'd appreciate your
thoughts
> on ease of use, understandability, quality of the product, etc
>
> Thanks
>
> Rachel
>
>
> |+--->
> ||   |
> ||   |
> ||  adaryechiel@h|
> ||  otmail.com   |
> ||   |
> ||  05/05/2002   |
> ||  07:23 AM |
> ||  Please   |
> ||  respond to   |
> ||  ORACLE-L |
> ||   |
> |+--->
>   >|
>   ||
>   |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]     |
>   |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
>   |   Subject: Re: Datawarehousing help|
>   >|
>
>
>
>
> Hello Dennis
>
> SAS has progressed a little in the last years and now offer a complete
> DW solution, including ETL tools.
>
> You can use their tools also to populate and query oracle.
>
> Yechiel Adar
> Mehish
>
> - Original Message -
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:48 AM
>
>
> > Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
> > origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
> > statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set
of
> > test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical
analyses.
> > Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that
I
> > would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
> Like
> > Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
> > To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
> > "Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
> > Instructions:
> >
> > For help with list commands, send a message
> > to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
> > word "help" in the body of the message.
> >
> > The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
> > information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the
leading
> > figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
> > magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.
> >
> > The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
> > can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early
> days
> > the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today
> there
> > are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
> > bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a
> replacement
> > DBA.
> > The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
> > be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins
> with
> > outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is
> loaded
> > each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately
> denormalized
> > and contains redundant data for ease of use.
> > OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
> > reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
> > loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able
to
> > reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a
period
> of
> > time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
> > So between denormalization and tons o

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-07 Thread bill thater 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I was hoping she would figure out the DW hard stuff, then write the book
> explaining everything with lots of big, colorful pictures...(big grin).
> 
> If I were to write the book, and she be the tech editor, then she would
> drive down to Philly and kick myand shove the already burning manuscript
> down my throat.


no, she would gently and emphatically point out your mistakes and 
suggest corrections to be made RIGHT NOW!;-)

i haven't had a chance to do any DW stuff, just the data cleaning that 
goes before it.  and that's a project in and of itself.;-)



-- 
--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.

Never violate the Prime Directory!  C:\




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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: bill thater
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Kimberly Smith 

Oh, good idea!  When's it being published Rachel?

-Original Message-
Chris
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael)     |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
   To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do
some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions o

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Jared . Still 

Whether you start designing a full blown DW or start with
some DM's really depends on a number of things:

1. experience
2. money
3. time

Kimball et all suggest you start with projects that can be
completed in 90 days, and assemble your DW piece meal.

If you're starting from scratch, you may have to work backwards
on it to give your users some experience ( as well as your self ).

I have had the good fortune of working on 2 DW's with very experienced
folks, and learned a heck of a lot in the process.

The best pointers I can give at the moment are to buy Kimball's books,
and find a good consultant that really knows how to design DW.

Jared





[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 02:23 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
    Subject:    RE: Datawarehousing help



Hi Jared -
I am a little confused about this -
1.  "A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built."
  "This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed."
So DM first or DW first? The first statement seems to suggest DW, but the
second seems to suggest DM.
2. "A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time."
So DW is not star-schema but DM is? Can you elaborate a little on how DW
resemble an OLTP.
I am very interested in data warehousing and please let me know if you 
have
any good pointers.

TIA

Dennis Meng
Database Administrator
Focal Communications Corp.


  
Jared.Still@r  
adisys.com   To: Multiple recipients of 
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: cc:   
    root@fatcity.Subject: RE: Datawarehousing 
help 
com  
  
  
05/06/02  
01:23 PM  
Please  
respond to  
ORACLE-L  
  
  




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  |            |
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform variou

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Grabowy, Chris 

Someone's got to pick up Marlene's slack...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




nuh uh, for two reasons, the first and foremost being, there already IS one

the second is that I have no plans to write any new books



|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  cgrabowy@fcg.|
||  com  |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  04:55 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |       Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael)     |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  |    |
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS sever

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Grabowy, Chris 

I was hoping she would figure out the DW hard stuff, then write the book
explaining everything with lots of big, colorful pictures...(big grin).

If I were to write the book, and she be the tech editor, then she would
drive down to Philly and kick myand shove the already burning manuscript
down my throat.

I'll pass...

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...


um knowing the way the goddess feels about book writing, i 
wouldn't go there if i were you.;-)  unless, of course, you're going to 
write the book for her to edit.;-)



-- 
--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.

On a clear disk you can seek forever.  - Denning




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: bill thater
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Grabowy, Chris
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



nuh uh, for two reasons, the first and foremost being, there already IS one

the second is that I have no plans to write any new books



|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  cgrabowy@fcg.|
||  com  |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  04:55 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today m

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread dmeng 


Hi Jared -
I am a little confused about this -
1.  "A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built."
  "This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed."
So DM first or DW first? The first statement seems to suggest DW, but the
second seems to suggest DM.
2. "A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time."
So DW is not star-schema but DM is? Can you elaborate a little on how DW
resemble an OLTP.
I am very interested in data warehousing and please let me know if you have
any good pointers.

TIA

Dennis Meng
Database Administrator
Focal Communications Corp.


   
   
Jared.Still@r  
   
adisys.com   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
Sent by: cc:   
   
        root@fatcity.Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help 
   
com
   
   
   
   
   
05/06/02   
   
01:23 PM   
   
Please 
   
respond to 
   
ORACLE-L   
   
   
   
   
   




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  |        |
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: R

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread bill thater 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...


um knowing the way the goddess feels about book writing, i 
wouldn't go there if i were you.;-)  unless, of course, you're going to 
write the book for her to edit.;-)



-- 
--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.

On a clear disk you can seek forever.  - Denning




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: bill thater
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



I've always been a cynic about storage -- too much is never enough.




|+-->
||  |
||  |
||  JayMiller@tdwate|
||  rhouse.com  |
||  |
||  05/06/2002 04:43|
||  PM  |
||  Please respond  |
||  to ORACLE-L |
||  |
|+-->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Just wanted to reiterate the grain recommendation.  The growth rate of our
data warehouse increased app. 20x when the business side changed their mind
from monthly to daily on our largest fact table.  They did this one week
after we got the monthly table into production as per their original
requirements.
Had to redo all the tablespace structures to make it easier save historical
data to tape and drop it from the database.  We now have 13 tablespaces each
of which will be holding one month's worth of data.

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 10:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Excellent dude.

-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Ralph Kimball warns that often people
will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get 7
times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
   Okay, I've rambled along here too long. Hope that gets you off on
the right foot.

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Miller, Jay
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).




-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Grabowy, Chris 

Cool!!  Here comes Oracle Data Warehousing 101...

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be..
other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael)     |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To:     [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
   To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do
some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.

The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
can't get past that point don't last long in the DW fi

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Miller, Jay 

Just wanted to reiterate the grain recommendation.  The growth rate of our
data warehouse increased app. 20x when the business side changed their mind
from monthly to daily on our largest fact table.  They did this one week
after we got the monthly table into production as per their original
requirements.
Had to redo all the tablespace structures to make it easier save historical
data to tape and drop it from the database.  We now have 13 tablespaces each
of which will be holding one month's worth of data.

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 10:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Excellent dude.

-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Ralph Kimball warns that often people
will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get 7
times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
Okay, I've rambled along here too long. Hope that gets you off on
the right foot.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Miller, Jay
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



Right now I'm collecting information.. I don't KNOW what this will be.. other
than a "learning experience" of course.

That which does not kill us makes us strong, right?

rachel, anticipating great strength




|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  Jared.Still@r|
||  adisys.com   |
||   |
||  05/06/2002   |
||  02:23 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael)     |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built.

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    cc:
Subject:RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it.
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To:     [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
   To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do
some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.

The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early
days
the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today
there
are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
bigot jus

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Jared . Still 

A DW is not simply a collection of data marts.

A DW may be a true 'warehouse' of enterprise data from which
DM may be built. 

Extracts go to the DW, DW is used to build DM.

A DW may in fact very much resemble an OLTP database, with
a temporal component thrown in to track changes to data over time.

Users are not (generally) allowed acces to the DW.

This is a full blown DW architecture though, and you may only
wish to start with some DM to get your feet wet, or maybe that's
all that is actually needed.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/06/2002 06:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:    RE: Datawarehousing help




Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I 
can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by 
marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it. 
But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small 
part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what 
they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting 
information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember 
that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]     |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities. 
Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
   To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do 
some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.

The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early 
days
the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today 
there
are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a 
replacement
DBA.
   The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users 
will
be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins 
with
outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is 
loaded
each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately 
denormalized
and contains redundant data for ease of use.
   OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about 
time. To
reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period 
of
time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
   So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical 
data, DWs
are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
   For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioni

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread paquette stephane 

Rachel,

If a DW is built and that users do not have access to
"a part of it" in an ad hoc fashion, you gonna have a
lot of political meetings 
They should have some data marts for their usage and
keep most of them off the raw data.

Regarding SAS tools, I've used SAS more than 10 years
ago in math classes... when it was only a statistical
tool.




 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > 
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem,
> I've always been more
> practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data
> being collected, I can see
> them wanting data aggregated hourly.
> 
> I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc
> queries, they seem to "do
> things right" here. What will happen is that they
> will be contacted by marketing
> with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but
> tech will generate it. But
> *my* problem is that the data warehouse will
> supposedly be only a small part of
> what I'm responsible for, I don't think they
> understand the scope of what they
> are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of
> it.
> 
> Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm
> still collecting information on
> which databases I will be responsible for. Then I
> just have to remember that
> when I set deadliines, I am prone to
> underestimation. :)
> 
> Rachel
> 
> 
> |+--->
> ||   |
> ||   |
> ||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
> ||  etouch.com   |
> ||   |
> ||  05/03/2002   |
> ||  08:48 PM |
> ||  Please   |
> ||  respond to   |
> ||  ORACLE-L |
> ||   |
> |+--->
>  
>
>------------|
>   | 
>   |
>   |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
>   |
>   |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael)  
>   |
>   |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help 
>   |
>  
>
>|
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand
> something if I know the
> origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At
> that time it was a
> statistical analysis package. A scientist or
> engineer could load a set of
> test data into it and perform various arithmetic and
> statistical analyses.
> Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS
> Excel. My point is that I
> would expect it to be heavily biased toward
> mathematical capabilities. Like
> Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what
> that term means.
>To learn Data Warehousing, I would
> encourage you to just do some
> "Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent
> newslist is dwlist.
> Instructions:
> 
> For help with list commands, send a message
> to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with
> the
> word "help" in the body of the message.
> 
> The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/
> has some excellent
> information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He
> is one of the leading
> figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his
> earliest columns on the
> magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist
> from time to time.
> 
> The main change you need yourself is to forget
> normalization. DBAs that
> can't get past that point don't last long in the DW
> field. In the early days
> the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to
> a DBA, but today there
> are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a
> hard-headed normalization
> bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to
> just ask for a replacement
> DBA.
>The reason normalization isn't adhered to
> in DW is that users will
> be creating their own queries and they can't
> understand 10-table joins with
> outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then
> queried. Our DW is loaded
> each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is
> deliberately denormalized
> and contains redundant data for ease of use.
>OLTP databases have no concept of "time".
> A DW is all about time. To
> reconstruct what the situation is at various points
> of time, the DW has
> loads of historical data. For example, marketing
> people need to be able to
> reconstruct the amount of business they did with a
> customer over a period of
> time last year and compare it with the

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Pat Hildebrand 

Rachel,

I haven't used their warehouse stuff and it has been a few years since
I had to deal with people doing statistical analysis with SAS (by the
way very good for that so if the reason considering this is the need
for heavy duty statistical analysis that is a big plus) but the one
thing that I remember from someone having SQL problems with SAS might
be worth taking a look at. SAS's implementation of SQL was more
restricted than Oracle's. You might want to check on what current
differences are and if they are relavent to your situation. I can't
remember the specifics but think it was not a matter of can't do it
but rather have to do it another way.

 Pat

> 
> have you used their tools? We are trying to decide whether or not to use them,
> so if anyone has had recent experience with them, I'd appreciate your thoughts
> on ease of use, understandability, quality of the product, etc
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rachel
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Pat Hildebrand
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



Yechiel,

have you used their tools? We are trying to decide whether or not to use them,
so if anyone has had recent experience with them, I'd appreciate your thoughts
on ease of use, understandability, quality of the product, etc

Thanks

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  adaryechiel@h|
||  otmail.com   |
||   |
||  05/05/2002   |
||  07:23 AM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: Re: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Hello Dennis

SAS has progressed a little in the last years and now offer a complete
DW solution, including ETL tools.

You can use their tools also to populate and query oracle.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:48 AM


> Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
> origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
> statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
> test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
> Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
> would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
Like
> Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
> To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
> "Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
> Instructions:
>
> For help with list commands, send a message
> to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
> word "help" in the body of the message.
>
> The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
> information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
> figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
> magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.
>
> The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
> can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early
days
> the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today
there
> are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
> bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a
replacement
> DBA.
> The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
> be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins
with
> outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is
loaded
> each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately
denormalized
> and contains redundant data for ease of use.
> OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
> reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
> loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
> reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period
of
> time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
> So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical data, DWs
> are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
> For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioning
> option. And study Oracle Materialized Views.
> In schema, a DW is usually a central fact table and 4-6 dimension
> tables. Less than 4 dimensions and you don't need a DW. More than 6 and
> marketing people can't understand the model. Normally the fact table is
much
> larger than the others, but not always. One of Wal-Mart's dimension tables
> is each person in the U.S. Just size each of those tables, and you've got
> your size. Growth is easy to predict. Ralph Kimball warns that often
people
> will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
> weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
> cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get
7
> times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
> cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
> normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
> Okay, I&

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Rachel_Carmichael 



Dennis,

Forgetting about normalization won't be a problem, I've always been more
practical than "by the book". As for amounts of data being collected, I can see
them wanting data aggregated hourly.

I greatly doubt the tech people will allow adhoc queries, they seem to "do
things right" here. What will happen is that they will be contacted by marketing
with an "I need this new report NOW" request, but tech will generate it. But
*my* problem is that the data warehouse will supposedly be only a small part of
what I'm responsible for, I don't think they understand the scope of what they
are asking for, as yet. They will, I'll make sure of it.

Right now, as this is a new internal group, I'm still collecting information on
which databases I will be responsible for. Then I just have to remember that
when I set deadliines, I am prone to underestimation. :)

Rachel


|+--->
||   |
||   |
||  DWILLIAMS@lif|
||  etouch.com   |
||   |
||  05/03/2002   |
||  08:48 PM |
||  Please   |
||  respond to   |
||  ORACLE-L |
||   |
|+--->
  >|
  ||
  |   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
  |   cc:     (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
  |   Subject: RE: Datawarehousing help|
  >|




Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities. Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
   To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.

The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early days
the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today there
are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a replacement
DBA.
   The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins with
outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is loaded
each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately denormalized
and contains redundant data for ease of use.
   OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period of
time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
   So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical data, DWs
are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
   For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioning
option. And study Oracle Materialized Views.
   In schema, a DW is usually a central fact table and 4-6 dimension
tables. Less than 4 dimensions and you don't need a DW. More than 6 and
marketing people can't understand the model. Normally the fact table is much
larger than the others, but not always. One of Wal-Mart's dimension tables
is each person in the U.S. Just size each of those tables, and you've got
your size. Growth is easy to predict. Ralph Kimball warns that often people
will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get 7
times the disk capacity. That is the fun side o

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-06 Thread Cherie_Machler 


Rachel,

Are you licensed for Oracle Designer?

We put the estimated row counts for each table into Designer and it
produces a nice report showing sizing estimates per table or index,
tablespace, and database.   Pretty painless.   You still need to add on
extra space for archives, exports, backups, etc. but at least you can get a
sizing estimate for the tables, themselves.

I'm not familiar with SAS.

Cherie Machler
Oracle DBA
Gelco Information Network


   
 
Rachel_Carmichael@Son  
 
ymusic.com  To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by:cc:
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Datawarehousing help  
 
   
 
   
 
05/03/02 05:08 PM  
 
Please respond to  
 
ORACLE-L   
 
   
 
   
 






Okay, my background is OLTP, but we are looking at a data warehousing
project
here

any and all help appreciated! Specifically:

1) does anyone have any experience with a product called "SAS
Datawarehousing
Administrator" (or SAS)?
2) how do I go about doing rough estimates of sizing needs, assuming I will
get
rough numbers of information being collected, growth rates, length of
history to
keep, etc.

help?

Rachel


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).




-- 
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-- 
Author: 
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RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-05 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS 

Yechiel - I did not mean to imply that SAS had not improved since the '80s.
They would be out of business otherwise. And of course every DW vendor is
"full solution" vendor. Just read their brochures if you don't believe me.
My point was that if you understand a company's roots, then often a lot of
their quirks start to make sense. My point was that SAS has a VERY strong
mathematical foundation, which may help set your understandings.
The features you have listed Rachel can get off their brochures. Can
you provide any more ideas? My guess is that they might be very strongly
positioned to perform data mining. Can you confirm that?
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 6:23 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello Dennis

SAS has progressed a little in the last years and now offer a complete
DW solution, including ETL tools.

You can use their tools also to populate and query oracle.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:48 AM


> Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
> origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
> statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
> test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
> Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
> would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
Like
> Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
> To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
> "Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
> Instructions:
>
> For help with list commands, send a message
> to  with the
> word "help" in the body of the message.
>
> The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
> information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
> figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
> magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.
>
> The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
> can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early
days
> the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today
there
> are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
> bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a
replacement
> DBA.
> The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
> be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins
with
> outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is
loaded
> each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately
denormalized
> and contains redundant data for ease of use.
> OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
> reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
> loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
> reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period
of
> time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
> So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical data, DWs
> are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
> For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioning
> option. And study Oracle Materialized Views.
> In schema, a DW is usually a central fact table and 4-6 dimension
> tables. Less than 4 dimensions and you don't need a DW. More than 6 and
> marketing people can't understand the model. Normally the fact table is
much
> larger than the others, but not always. One of Wal-Mart's dimension tables
> is each person in the U.S. Just size each of those tables, and you've got
> your size. Growth is easy to predict. Ralph Kimball warns that often
people
> will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
> weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
> cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get
7
> times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
> cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
> normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
> Okay, I've rambled along here too long. Hope that gets you off on
> the right foot.
>
> -Original Message-
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:08 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
> Okay, my background is OLTP, but we are looking at a data warehousing
> project
> here
>
> any and all help appreciated! Specifically:
>
> 1) does anyone have any experience with a product called "SAS
> Datawarehousing
> Administrator" (or SAS)?
> 2) how do I go about doing rough estimates

Re: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-05 Thread Yechiel Adar 

Hello Dennis

SAS has progressed a little in the last years and now offer a complete
DW solution, including ETL tools.

You can use their tools also to populate and query oracle.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 2:48 AM


> Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
> origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
> statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
> test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
> Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
> would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities.
Like
> Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
> To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
> "Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
> Instructions:
>
> For help with list commands, send a message
> to  with the
> word "help" in the body of the message.
>
> The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
> information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
> figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
> magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.
>
> The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
> can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early
days
> the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today
there
> are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
> bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a
replacement
> DBA.
> The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
> be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins
with
> outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is
loaded
> each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately
denormalized
> and contains redundant data for ease of use.
> OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
> reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
> loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
> reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period
of
> time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
> So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical data, DWs
> are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
> For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioning
> option. And study Oracle Materialized Views.
> In schema, a DW is usually a central fact table and 4-6 dimension
> tables. Less than 4 dimensions and you don't need a DW. More than 6 and
> marketing people can't understand the model. Normally the fact table is
much
> larger than the others, but not always. One of Wal-Mart's dimension tables
> is each person in the U.S. Just size each of those tables, and you've got
> your size. Growth is easy to predict. Ralph Kimball warns that often
people
> will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
> weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
> cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get
7
> times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
> cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
> normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
> Okay, I've rambled along here too long. Hope that gets you off on
> the right foot.
>
> -Original Message-
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:08 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
> Okay, my background is OLTP, but we are looking at a data warehousing
> project
> here
>
> any and all help appreciated! Specifically:
>
> 1) does anyone have any experience with a product called "SAS
> Datawarehousing
> Administrator" (or SAS)?
> 2) how do I go about doing rough estimates of sizing needs, assuming I
will
> get
> rough numbers of information being collected, growth rates, length of
> history to
> keep, etc.
>
> help?
>
> Rachel
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author:
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-03 Thread Kimberly Smith 

Excellent dude.

-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities. Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to  with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time.

The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early days
the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today there
are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a replacement
DBA.
The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins with
outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is loaded
each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately denormalized
and contains redundant data for ease of use.
OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period of
time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical data, DWs
are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioning
option. And study Oracle Materialized Views.
In schema, a DW is usually a central fact table and 4-6 dimension
tables. Less than 4 dimensions and you don't need a DW. More than 6 and
marketing people can't understand the model. Normally the fact table is much
larger than the others, but not always. One of Wal-Mart's dimension tables
is each person in the U.S. Just size each of those tables, and you've got
your size. Growth is easy to predict. Ralph Kimball warns that often people
will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get 7
times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
Okay, I've rambled along here too long. Hope that gets you off on
the right foot.

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Okay, my background is OLTP, but we are looking at a data warehousing
project
here

any and all help appreciated! Specifically:

1) does anyone have any experience with a product called "SAS
Datawarehousing
Administrator" (or SAS)?
2) how do I go about doing rough estimates of sizing needs, assuming I will
get
rough numbers of information being collected, growth rates, length of
history to
keep, etc.

help?

Rachel


--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
---

RE: Datawarehousing help

2002-05-03 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS 

Rachel - I always find it helpful to understand something if I know the
origins. I worked with SAS several years ago. At that time it was a
statistical analysis package. A scientist or engineer could load a set of
test data into it and perform various arithmetic and statistical analyses.
Today most of that can be done with Oracle or MS Excel. My point is that I
would expect it to be heavily biased toward mathematical capabilities. Like
Data Mining, which is all statistics. Learn what that term means.
To learn Data Warehousing, I would encourage you to just do some
"Googling" and find good tutorials. An excellent newslist is dwlist.
Instructions:

For help with list commands, send a message
to  with the
word "help" in the body of the message.

The magazine http://www.intelligententerprise.com/ has some excellent
information. I would search for "Ralph Kimball". He is one of the leading
figures in the DW arena. Look for some of his earliest columns on the
magazine site. He also answers questions on dwlist from time to time. 

The main change you need yourself is to forget normalization. DBAs that
can't get past that point don't last long in the DW field. In the early days
the DW people would patiently explain the reasons to a DBA, but today there
are enough DBAs that have made the leap that a hard-headed normalization
bigot just isn't tolerated. It is much easier to just ask for a replacement
DBA. 
The reason normalization isn't adhered to in DW is that users will
be creating their own queries and they can't understand 10-table joins with
outer joins, etc. A DW is usually loaded and then queried. Our DW is loaded
each weekend and then queried all week. So a DW is deliberately denormalized
and contains redundant data for ease of use. 
OLTP databases have no concept of "time". A DW is all about time. To
reconstruct what the situation is at various points of time, the DW has
loads of historical data. For example, marketing people need to be able to
reconstruct the amount of business they did with a customer over a period of
time last year and compare it with the same period this year.
So between denormalization and tons of detailed historical data, DWs
are normally BIG! Fortunately they are usually read-only.
For Oracle, you want Enterprise Edition with the partitioning
option. And study Oracle Materialized Views.
In schema, a DW is usually a central fact table and 4-6 dimension
tables. Less than 4 dimensions and you don't need a DW. More than 6 and
marketing people can't understand the model. Normally the fact table is much
larger than the others, but not always. One of Wal-Mart's dimension tables
is each person in the U.S. Just size each of those tables, and you've got
your size. Growth is easy to predict. Ralph Kimball warns that often people
will get the grain wrong. They will size it for data summarized at the
weekly level, then after it is built they will realize that isn't going to
cut it and need a daily level. You must start almost from scratch and get 7
times the disk capacity. That is the fun side of being a DW DBA. Your
cynical instincts will still serve you well, just get them away from
normalization and worry about getting the grain right.
Okay, I've rambled along here too long. Hope that gets you off on
the right foot.

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Okay, my background is OLTP, but we are looking at a data warehousing
project
here

any and all help appreciated! Specifically:

1) does anyone have any experience with a product called "SAS
Datawarehousing
Administrator" (or SAS)?
2) how do I go about doing rough estimates of sizing needs, assuming I will
get
rough numbers of information being collected, growth rates, length of
history to
keep, etc.

help?

Rachel


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT s