RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen
I think .net will catch on, because it will be pushed by a company that has about 96% of the PC desktop market... all the other vendors (including Oracle with its java-centric view of the world) will have to accommodate .net. Ahem, how compatible will .net be with java, I wonder, given that it will be entirely developed by MS? You can bet that .net will run faster on the Windows platform than Java, as well, which will help it gain momentum. Will we have to push something like JInitiator onto client machines in case they have .net running on them? I am just one DBA worrying about this... Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 1:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen Ooooh, this is good stuff too. As a twinkly-eyed Randist decades ago, i should have seen that argument, too. Commerce and pure research do support each other. At least, I know I have benefitted from both. Thanks for the extra analysis, Dr. Pierce! Ross p.s. btw, your cry to attention at the endare there articles you have in mind supporting your statement that the anti-MS jihad'ers underestimate .Net, or is this an intuitive call? (I am perfectly willing to entertain either, or both, as a answer...) -Original Message- To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: 5/4/2001 6:05 PM Basically this is just the same old purists vs. popularizers stuff. But it is classic. Let the jihad rage. Reverend Torvalds is of course mainly preaching to the choir (purists). He ought to at least acknowledge that in the history of science, commerce -as applied scientific development- has always played an important role as an economic engine, though frequently in considerable tension to the purist interests/preferences of scientific elites. Of course it is tempting to set up scientists as heroic/romantic figures, but without the social engine of commerce chugging along, would the resources have even been there to support all the great innovations that were developed by the intellectual and scientific elites? Of course not. Also, commerce and science (as we know them in the modern age since 1600), arose from the same underlying cultural/evolutionary wellsprings, so the idea of separating commerce from science has limited relevance. I wasn't able to stay awake enough to force myself to stomach reading all of corporate-speak drivel in the MS guy's statement, but this did jump out at me: ---excerpt--- [IP = intellectual property] ...Finally, the fact that we believe strongly in the value of IP protection doesn't mean that we discount the importance of contributing to and supporting the public domain of knowledge as well. We believe that interaction between the public domain and the IP-based sector needs to be based on mutual responsibility and respect. There is an important and longstanding tradition for the public domain of knowledge, or intellectual commons. This is reflected in many ways, including federal support for basic research, the limitations on IP rights reflected in the law and, more recently, the broad practice of contributing technology to public standards groups for the continued development of the Internet. We support this and want to continue to be a constructive and responsible participant in this community, including making contributions to public standards. There is an equally important tradition of commercial companies having the opportunity to benefit from and apply this public knowledge, including by developing commercial products that are protected by IP rights. There are many examples of this, including the many products that grew from research in the space program and the advances in speech recognition technology that followed work done at pre-eminent institutions such as Carnegie Mellon. ... ---end--- Really, the brainwashed idiots/ propagandists at MS are their own worst enemy (enema?). If they would just tell the plain
RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen t
A friend of mine explained to me over the weekend that open source is good for most companies, it gives them something to build on, or adds utilities to their proprietary software. Open source only becomes a threat when you want to control ALL the layers, i.e. from the OS right up to the applications. It only becomes a problem for you if you have something for all the markets, and you want to dominate all of them. That says a lot. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- From: David Messer [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movement Sounds like MS is afraid Open Source Software (OSS) will undermine MS. Hard to imagine a big company like MS being upset that it's competitors are selling ``flimsy,'' ''flawed,'' products that might 'jeopardizing property rights'. David -Original Message- Patrice J Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L movemen t http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html Let me know what you think. : ) Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: David Messer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen
- Original Message - Will we have to push something like JInitiator onto client machines in case they have .net running on them? I am just one DBA worrying about this... I think you're spot-on here. That's what's most likely. The hordes will make sure Java dies quickly now that M$ doesn't have to look non-monopolistic anymore. However, that doesn't mean the death of OSS. Far from it. No matter how much M$ would like it to be the case. Personally, if C# holds on the promise of being much faster than Java, I'd rather have it. Across all platforms. No reason why someone won't port it once it takes full shape. Been done before in many cases. It's just another language. And if Java and its coders can't clean up their act, they're gone. By cleaning, I mean: - get some sense when accessing databases, instead of trying to replace their structure or using them as flat files! - get much simpler to use and integrate with databases. - get much simpler to debug. - greatly reduce the number of class libraries it needs to make even a simple coffee. - get much, much faster and less resource intensive. Have you looked at a reasonably functional Java program/app lately? It ain't simple, it ain't easy, it ain't fast and it's a problem to maintain. It wasn't supposed to be all those, but it is... Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen
Now of course we want to know what that URL is... Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen I like that prison metaphor. I've rarely metaphor i didn't! A security-guru buddy of mine sent me a site reviewing all major Unix/Linux/MS security vis a vis TCP packet snooping/spoofing. Linux came out leagues ahead. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen
working on it || -Original Message- || From: Boivin, Patrice J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:57 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject: RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software || movemen || || || Now of course we want to know what that URL is... || || Patrice Boivin || Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) || || Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes || Technology Services| Services technologiques || Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique || Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO || || E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] || || -Original Message- || From: Mohan, Ross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:10 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject:RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source || software movemen || || I like that prison metaphor. I've rarely metaphor i didn't! || || A security-guru buddy of mine sent me a site reviewing all || major Unix/Linux/MS security vis a vis TCP packet || snooping/spoofing. || || Linux came out leagues ahead. || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Boivin, Patrice J || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || Mailing Lists || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may || also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). || -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen
The characteristic dysfunctional dynamic would lead one to expect to frequently see both sides in such conflicts shooting themselves in the foot with wild abandon. This explains why my clay feet are full of holes. I often bend over backwards in trying to see both sides As for .net, well...shrug...i like Joel Spolsky's take on it: http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133 Take care man, Ross || -Original Message- || From: Eric D. Pierce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 1:57 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject: RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software || movemen || || || dude, || || semi-intuitive/deductive? || || re: .net || || what I've seen is a lot of the usual eternally poorly, or || partly, thought out MS-hate, mostly secondary/derivative || material on email lists, along with some good criticism || (good as in: based on either sophisticated technical, or || political grounds). || || on the other hand, at this campus, the desktop support RD || guy, who is more or less agnostic (occasionally slight || pro-MS leanings) says that .net is expectde to take care of || some major vexing problems with client platform rollouts and || maintenance. || || And you saw the forward from the folks at our local user || group who appear to have done some careful preliminary || examination of the two strategies. || || As an independent, I see massive problems on the MS side. || || BUT, as in virtually all the conflict based clashes between || people that have become emotionaly invested in one side or || another of an argument about values, beliefs and aesthetics, || excesses and rhetorical distortions will be in evidence on || both sides. || || It is easy for people in the purist camp of the tech || community to trash MS' greed and monopolistic excesses (and || the underlying value/belief system). It is much harder for || some purists to maintain a sophisticated, balanced good || faith approach to dialoging with people with other || perspectives, and to engage in healthy self criticism. || || The tendency for people to become obsessive about || advocating their own (or their own groups') perspective || and therefore loose the ability to tolerate, and appreciate || other perspectives (especially to the extent of becoming || reactionary) is called instrumentalization by social || theorists. || || I've paid more attention to the cultural mapping of these || issues in relation to 1) science/religion dialogue (e.g., || the Kansas School Board controversy about teaching of || evolutionary theory), the broad outlines of liberal vs. || conservative conflict over social engineering policies || (esp. public education welfare state), and issues in || international relations (e.g., Giddens', of the London || School of Economics, constructivist perspective). || || ---excerpt--- || || http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0745622674 || ||Book Description || ||The idea of finding a third way in politics has been widely ||discussed - not only in the UK, but in the US, Continental Europe ||and Latin America. But what is the third way? Supporters of the ||notion haven't been able to agree, and critics deny the ||possibility altogether. Anthony Giddens shows that developing a ||third way is not only a possibility but a necessity in modern ||politics. The third way represents the renewal of social democracy ||in a world where the views of the old left have become obsolete, ||while those of the new right are inadequate and contradictory. A ||new social democratic agenda is emerging that is integrated, ||robust and wide-ranging. It is an agenda that can rekindle ||political idealism. || ||The author's previous works, especially Beyond Left and Right ||(Polity Press 1994), have influenced debates about the social ||democracy in many countries across the world. Frequently referred ||to in the UK as Tony Blair's guru, Giddens has made a strong ||impact on the evolution of New Labour. The author or editor of ||over thirty books, he is currently the Director of the London ||School of Economics and Political Science. || ... || || ---end--- || || In terms of transcending (not invalidating) the limitations || of older value/belief systems, one useful tool is called || standpoint epistemology, which assumes that truth (or || beauty, or good) can legitimately be seen from a || variety of differing perspectives, and that definitions of || difference don't need to be constrained within the context || of ideas about exclusion. || || Anyway, while the connection between ideology, partisan || politics, etc. and the computer industry is not at all || obvious or simple, the manner in which people tend to form || oppositional camps around ideological positions and || value/belief systems in the purist vs. popularizer debate
Re: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen t
Jared Still wrote: On Thursday 03 May 2001 14:21, Boivin, Patrice J wrote: ? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html ... ? ? Let me know what you think. I think I should get out my waders and my gas mask as they are compulsory when wading this deep in cattle dung. ?From the article: ?He described the open software movement as ``flimsy,'' ''flawed,'' ?jeopardizing property rights and threatening to undermine the software ?industry, a key economic growth engine. Common Industry Standards? Remember DOS 4.0? Windows 3.0? If OSS had been in a position to make it's move when those were prevalent, Mr Mundie would be calling Mr Torvalds 'Boss'. Jared But - isn't the consumer - who is able to make intelligent, well-informed choices in a competitive marketplace - the boss? uh - the consumer isn't intelligent? uh - the marketplace isn't competitive? uh - the information is coming from Gartner Group and its not perfect? oh. never mind. Everything I ever learned in 4 semesters of Econ was based upon these factors. lets just go back to winning the war - ONE user at a time. Installfests - where the battle is really fought. Paul -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Drake INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen t
On Sunday 06 May 2001 00:30, Paul Drake wrote: But - isn't the consumer - who is able to make intelligent, well-informed choices in a competitive marketplace - the boss? uh - the consumer isn't intelligent? Does this include users and induhviduals? ;) For a visually humorous take on this: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010506 Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen t
- Original Message - I think I should get out my waders and my gas mask as they are compulsory when wading this deep in cattle dung. Aye, cattle dung it is most definitely! About time this sort of attack from M$ got back the reaction it deserves from the industry, instead of paying too much attention to it. Pure dung, it should be ignored completely. I'm sure M$ considers whatever this idiot says as very important. The rest of the industry doesn't even know who the heck the fella is, and doesn't care... Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen t
Don't forget breaking up common industry design standards like incompatible data requirements for Kerberos implementations and the use of the latest COM+ for all IPC -- you know -- the ones that require you to buy and run Microsoft products ;-). David Messer wrote: Sounds like MS is afraid Open Source Software (OSS) will undermine MS. Hard to imagine a big company like MS being upset that it's competitors are selling ``flimsy,'' ''flawed,'' products that might 'jeopardizing property rights'. David -Original Message- Patrice J Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L movemen t http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html Let me know what you think. : ) Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: David Messer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). begin:vcard n:Jerman;Don tel;work:919.508.1886 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Database Management Service,Information Technology version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Database Administrator adr;quoted-printable:;;Database Management Service,Information Technology=0D=0A104 Fayetteville Street Mall;Raleigh;NC;27699-1521;USA x-mozilla-cpt:;-9536 fn:Don Jerman end:vcard
RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen
Here is Linus's response http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/2001/05/03/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/t orvalds.htm a good read ... Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art ! * This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify ESPN at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you. * -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT -- MS makes a statement about open-source software movemen t
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010503/tc/microsoft_linux_dc_2.html Let me know what you think. : ) Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
