RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

early this year, Oracle User Resources decided it was no longer profitable 
to run ECO.


>From: "Babette Turner-Underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:16:02 -0800
>
>WHAT???
>ECO went under?
>When did that happen.
>
>(man am I ever out of the loop!!)
>
>- Babette
>   -Original Message-
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of JOE TESTA
>   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:31 PM
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>   Subject: Re: OT -- training
>
>
>   Well i get to go to IOUG every year(even if i wasn't presenting), i 
>bypass
>on openworld and was hoping to do the ECO thing before they went under :(
>
>   joe
>
>
>   - Original Message -
>   To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:46 AM
>
>
>   Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>   employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
>
>   "real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
>   CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff
>like
>   little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
>
>   Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
>   during your job interview?
>
>   [snipped]


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RE: OT -- training

[Babette Turner-Underwood]

WHAT???
ECO went 
under?
When did that 
happen.
 
(man am I ever out of the 
loop!!)
 
- Babette

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of JOE TESTASent: Monday, 
  August 13, 2001 3:31 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: OT -- training
  Well i get to go to IOUG every year(even if i wasn't presenting), i 
  bypass on openworld and was hoping to do the ECO thing before they went under 
  :(
   
  joe
   
   
  - Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:46 
  AMJust out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training 
  did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
  years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars 
  given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related 
  stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.Oh, 
  and did the amount of training you received match what you were toldduring 
  your job interview?[snipped] 

RE: OT -- training

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Sounds like in the U.S. you have the same tax-shelter...

Find yourself a horse-breeding farm that makes profit only 2 years out of 7,
hopefully it will make multi-million losses 5 years out of 7.

; )

I wish they would get rid of all these loopholes.

Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
From:   Post, Ethan [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: OT -- training

Well your exactly right about the .coms and many other businesses.
There
must be some more legal wrangling elsewhere in the tax code or some
existing
legal precedents that would suggest that you can infact not make a
profit
and still be considered a biz, even outside the lines of the ref
below. - E

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 1:29 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    >Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
>You're absolutely correct.  I had a momentary brain-burp and 
>applied what I
>knew of tax-exempt to not-for-profit.
>
>From the IRS's FAQ at 
>http://www.irs.gov/prod/bus_info/eo/eo-faqs.html#11
>
>"Non-profit and not-for-profit are state law concepts. Most states
have
>laws whereby an entity can be incorporated as a non-profit or
>not-for-profit organization. However, the mere fact that an entity
is
>organized as a non-profit or not-for-profit organization does 
>not indicate
>that it is exempt from federal income tax."
>
>So the IRS (Federal law) doesn't recognize non-profit or 
>not-for-profit.
>
>However, the discussion was really about whether you had to 
>make a profit
>to be a legitimate business.
>
>Check http://www.irs.gov/plain/forms_pubs/pubs/p5350104.htm
>Quote:
>
>"Presumption of Profit
>An activity is presumed carried on for profit if it produced a 
>profit in at
>least 3 of the last 5 tax years, including the current year.
Activities
>that consist primarily of breeding, training, showing, or 
>racing horses are
>presumed carried on for profit if they produced a profit in at 
>least 2 of
>the last 7 tax years, including the current year. You have a 
>profit when
>the gross income from an activity is more than the deductions for
it.
>
>"If a taxpayer dies before the end of the 5-year (or 7-year) 
>period, the
>period ends on the date of the taxpayer's death. If your business
or
>investment activity passes this 3- (or 2-) years-of-profit 
>test, presume it
>is carried on for profit. This means it will not come under 
>these limits.
>You can take all your business deductions from the activity, 
>even for the
>years that you have a loss. You can rely on this presumption 
>in every case,
>unless the IRS shows it is not valid.
>"Using the presumption later. If you are starting an activity 
>and do not
>have 3 (or 2) years showing a profit, you may want to take
advantage of
>this presumption later, after you have the 5 (or 7) years of
experience
>allowed by the test. You can choose to do this by filing Form 
>5213. Filing
>this form postpones any determination that your activity is 
>not carried on
>for profit until 5 (or 7) years have passed since you started 
>the activity.
>
>"The benefit gained by making this choice is that the IRS will not
>immediately question whether your activity is engaged in for
profit.
>Accordingly, it will not restrict your deductions. Rather, you 
>will gain
>time to earn a profit in 3 (or 2) out of the first 5 (or 7) 
>years you carry
>on the activity. If you show 3 (or 2) years of profit at the 
>end of this
>period, your deductions are not limited under these rules. If 
>you do not
>have 3 (or 2) years of profit, the limit can be applied 
>retroactively to
>any year in the 5-year (or 7-year) period with a loss.
>
>"Filing Form 5213 automatically extends the period of 
>limitations on any
>year in the 5-year (or 7-year) period to 2 years after the due 
   

RE: OT -- training

[Post, Ethan]

Well your exactly right about the .coms and many other businesses. There
must be some more legal wrangling elsewhere in the tax code or some existing
legal precedents that would suggest that you can infact not make a profit
and still be considered a biz, even outside the lines of the ref below. - E

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 1:29 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
>You're absolutely correct.  I had a momentary brain-burp and 
>applied what I
>knew of tax-exempt to not-for-profit.
>
>From the IRS's FAQ at 
>http://www.irs.gov/prod/bus_info/eo/eo-faqs.html#11
>
>"Non-profit and not-for-profit are state law concepts. Most states have
>laws whereby an entity can be incorporated as a non-profit or
>not-for-profit organization. However, the mere fact that an entity is
>organized as a non-profit or not-for-profit organization does 
>not indicate
>that it is exempt from federal income tax."
>
>So the IRS (Federal law) doesn't recognize non-profit or 
>not-for-profit.
>
>However, the discussion was really about whether you had to 
>make a profit
>to be a legitimate business.
>
>Check http://www.irs.gov/plain/forms_pubs/pubs/p5350104.htm
>Quote:
>
>"Presumption of Profit
>An activity is presumed carried on for profit if it produced a 
>profit in at
>least 3 of the last 5 tax years, including the current year. Activities
>that consist primarily of breeding, training, showing, or 
>racing horses are
>presumed carried on for profit if they produced a profit in at 
>least 2 of
>the last 7 tax years, including the current year. You have a 
>profit when
>the gross income from an activity is more than the deductions for it.
>
>"If a taxpayer dies before the end of the 5-year (or 7-year) 
>period, the
>period ends on the date of the taxpayer's death. If your business or
>investment activity passes this 3- (or 2-) years-of-profit 
>test, presume it
>is carried on for profit. This means it will not come under 
>these limits.
>You can take all your business deductions from the activity, 
>even for the
>years that you have a loss. You can rely on this presumption 
>in every case,
>unless the IRS shows it is not valid.
>"Using the presumption later. If you are starting an activity 
>and do not
>have 3 (or 2) years showing a profit, you may want to take advantage of
>this presumption later, after you have the 5 (or 7) years of experience
>allowed by the test. You can choose to do this by filing Form 
>5213. Filing
>this form postpones any determination that your activity is 
>not carried on
>for profit until 5 (or 7) years have passed since you started 
>the activity.
>
>"The benefit gained by making this choice is that the IRS will not
>immediately question whether your activity is engaged in for profit.
>Accordingly, it will not restrict your deductions. Rather, you 
>will gain
>time to earn a profit in 3 (or 2) out of the first 5 (or 7) 
>years you carry
>on the activity. If you show 3 (or 2) years of profit at the 
>end of this
>period, your deductions are not limited under these rules. If 
>you do not
>have 3 (or 2) years of profit, the limit can be applied 
>retroactively to
>any year in the 5-year (or 7-year) period with a loss.
>
>"Filing Form 5213 automatically extends the period of 
>limitations on any
>year in the 5-year (or 7-year) period to 2 years after the due 
>date of the
>return for the last year of the period. The period is extended only for
>deductions of the activity and any related deductions that might be
>affected."
>
>They've changed the rules since I last was interested.  I'm pretty sure
>that it used to be just 1 year out of the last 4 or 5.  Now 
>it's 3 years
>out of the last 5.  I wonder how many dot coms could meet that test --
>assuming that they stay in business for 5 years?
>
>
>
>   
>   
>"Mercadante,   
>       
>Thomas F"   To: Multiple 
>recipients of list ORACLE-L  
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>ate.ny.us>  cc:
>   
>Sent by:Subject: RE: 
>OT -- training   
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
>

RE: OT -- training

[tday6]

You're absolutely correct.  I had a momentary brain-burp and applied what I
knew of tax-exempt to not-for-profit.

>From the IRS's FAQ at http://www.irs.gov/prod/bus_info/eo/eo-faqs.html#11

"Non-profit and not-for-profit are state law concepts. Most states have
laws whereby an entity can be incorporated as a non-profit or
not-for-profit organization. However, the mere fact that an entity is
organized as a non-profit or not-for-profit organization does not indicate
that it is exempt from federal income tax."

So the IRS (Federal law) doesn't recognize non-profit or not-for-profit.

However, the discussion was really about whether you had to make a profit
to be a legitimate business.

Check http://www.irs.gov/plain/forms_pubs/pubs/p5350104.htm
Quote:

"Presumption of Profit
An activity is presumed carried on for profit if it produced a profit in at
least 3 of the last 5 tax years, including the current year. Activities
that consist primarily of breeding, training, showing, or racing horses are
presumed carried on for profit if they produced a profit in at least 2 of
the last 7 tax years, including the current year. You have a profit when
the gross income from an activity is more than the deductions for it.

"If a taxpayer dies before the end of the 5-year (or 7-year) period, the
period ends on the date of the taxpayer's death. If your business or
investment activity passes this 3- (or 2-) years-of-profit test, presume it
is carried on for profit. This means it will not come under these limits.
You can take all your business deductions from the activity, even for the
years that you have a loss. You can rely on this presumption in every case,
unless the IRS shows it is not valid.
"Using the presumption later. If you are starting an activity and do not
have 3 (or 2) years showing a profit, you may want to take advantage of
this presumption later, after you have the 5 (or 7) years of experience
allowed by the test. You can choose to do this by filing Form 5213. Filing
this form postpones any determination that your activity is not carried on
for profit until 5 (or 7) years have passed since you started the activity.

"The benefit gained by making this choice is that the IRS will not
immediately question whether your activity is engaged in for profit.
Accordingly, it will not restrict your deductions. Rather, you will gain
time to earn a profit in 3 (or 2) out of the first 5 (or 7) years you carry
on the activity. If you show 3 (or 2) years of profit at the end of this
period, your deductions are not limited under these rules. If you do not
have 3 (or 2) years of profit, the limit can be applied retroactively to
any year in the 5-year (or 7-year) period with a loss.

"Filing Form 5213 automatically extends the period of limitations on any
year in the 5-year (or 7-year) period to 2 years after the due date of the
return for the last year of the period. The period is extended only for
deductions of the activity and any related deductions that might be
affected."

They've changed the rules since I last was interested.  I'm pretty sure
that it used to be just 1 year out of the last 4 or 5.  Now it's 3 years
out of the last 5.  I wonder how many dot coms could meet that test --
assuming that they stay in business for 5 years?



   
   
"Mercadante,   
   
Thomas F"   To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
   
ate.ny.us>  cc:        
   
Sent by:Subject: RE: OT -- training
   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
   
   
   
   
   
08/15/2001 02:46   
   
PM 
   
Please respond 
   
to ORACLE-L
   
   
   
   
   




The IRS is not picky about not-for-profits making a profit - they just get
taxed for it.  I was a treasurer for a NFP, and we always made a (modest)
profit.  We just paid li

RE: OT -- training

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

The IRS is not picky about not-for-profits making a profit - they just get
taxed for it.  I was a treasurer for a NFP, and we always made a (modest)
profit.  We just paid like normal taxpayers.

They also taxed you for income that was "outside" your stated reason for
being.

tday6 said:
"2.  You can never make a profit."


Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Yes.  It does.  But, as someone pointed out earlier, as an individual it's
only partially deductible.  If you're a business then it is an expense that
can be offset against income (and thus is 100% deductible).  If you're not
already a DBA (or at least in an IT field) then it's probably not
deductible.

As always, check with a real tax lawyer.  Me?  I just slept at a Holiday
Inn last night.

Regarding registering as a non-profit -- 2 points.

1.  The IRS requires that you have some socially beneficial activity as
your only mission (education, religion, etc.).

2.  You can never make a profit.

They're pretty picky about this.  (LOL)



 

lhoska@calibr

esys.com To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L  
Sent by: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

root@fatcity.cc:

            com  Subject: RE: OT -- training

 

 

08/14/2001

05:41 PM

Please

respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





Speaking about progressing in your current field wouldn't technical
training
of dba qualify for a tax break under the same category as training for FAA
ground instructor?  Otherwise, your FAA ground instructor registered as a
private business (and we're back to the beginning of our discussion).
Doesn't surprise me neither does it make me jealous.  There are so many
different career decisions you can make.  I like being a dba..
Btw, I am pretty sure you can write off your technical book fees even as an
individual..
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Appearances to the contrary, Canada is a separate country with their own
tax laws.

However, the tax dodge that you mention is common here too.

Here's a really good one -- become a Certified FAA Ground Instructor.  You
teach people how to pass the FAA ground exam.  Since it's not life
threatening, it's relatively simple to get this certificate.  Then get a
student or two.  After that you can buy an airplane.  The airplane, the gas
to fly it, the maintenance and hangering of the airplane, the cost of
getting the experience necessary to become a Certified Flight Instructor
(CFI), books, aircraft simulator software, landing fees, even the cost of
overnight lodging in some cases, instructors' fees (in short, a whole ton
of things that make flying a hobby for the rich) become tax deductable
because they are helping you progress in your field as an instructor.  The
IRS does not allow you to deduct training that qualifies you for a new
field but it does allow you to deduct training that allows you to progress
in your current field.  Because of the FAA requirements for becoming a CFI
almost anything having to do with flying will count as "training".





"Boivin, Patrice

J"   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

    mpo.gc.ca>   cc:

Sent by: Subject: RE: OT --
training

[EMAIL PROTECTED]





08/14/2001 04:17

PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L









I know in Canada that some high-paid executives have "farms" in rural areas
(ahem, cottages really) where they grow forage, seed, or raise a couple of
sheep, rabbits, a few pigs, some chickens, or one cow.  All for tax
deductions of course.  It helps if the farm is near a lake.

Another good one is "horse farm".  There is a particularly big one in
Ontario that specializes in horse racing... and never makes a profit.  Ha
ha
ha ha ha ha...

This is my opinion, of course.  But I saw many of these when I used to
enter
farm tax records for Statistics Canada years ago.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:44 PM
 To:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:  RE: OT -- training

 I guess that we'll let the IRS sort this one out.  Your friend is
probably
 ri

RE: OT -- training

[tday6]

Yes.  It does.  But, as someone pointed out earlier, as an individual it's
only partially deductible.  If you're a business then it is an expense that
can be offset against income (and thus is 100% deductible).  If you're not
already a DBA (or at least in an IT field) then it's probably not
deductible.

As always, check with a real tax lawyer.  Me?  I just slept at a Holiday
Inn last night.

Regarding registering as a non-profit -- 2 points.

1.  The IRS requires that you have some socially beneficial activity as
your only mission (education, religion, etc.).

2.  You can never make a profit.

They're pretty picky about this.  (LOL)



   

lhoska@calibr  

esys.com To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  

Sent by: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

root@fatcity.cc:   

com      Subject: RE: OT -- training   

   

   

08/14/2001 

05:41 PM   

Please 

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   





Speaking about progressing in your current field wouldn't technical
training
of dba qualify for a tax break under the same category as training for FAA
ground instructor?  Otherwise, your FAA ground instructor registered as a
private business (and we're back to the beginning of our discussion).
Doesn't surprise me neither does it make me jealous.  There are so many
different career decisions you can make.  I like being a dba..
Btw, I am pretty sure you can write off your technical book fees even as an
individual..
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Appearances to the contrary, Canada is a separate country with their own
tax laws.

However, the tax dodge that you mention is common here too.

Here's a really good one -- become a Certified FAA Ground Instructor.  You
teach people how to pass the FAA ground exam.  Since it's not life
threatening, it's relatively simple to get this certificate.  Then get a
student or two.  After that you can buy an airplane.  The airplane, the gas
to fly it, the maintenance and hangering of the airplane, the cost of
getting the experience necessary to become a Certified Flight Instructor
(CFI), books, aircraft simulator software, landing fees, even the cost of
overnight lodging in some cases, instructors' fees (in short, a whole ton
of things that make flying a hobby for the rich) become tax deductable
because they are helping you progress in your field as an instructor.  The
IRS does not allow you to deduct training that qualifies you for a new
field but it does allow you to deduct training that allows you to progress
in your current field.  Because of the FAA requirements for becoming a CFI
almost anything having to do with flying will count as "training".





"Boivin, Patrice

J"   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

        mpo.gc.ca>   cc:

Sent by: Subject: RE: OT --
training

[EMAIL PROTECTED]





08/14/2001 04:17

PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L









I know in Canada that some high-paid executives have "farms" in rural areas
(ahem, cottages really) where they grow forage, seed, or raise a couple of
sheep, rabbits, a few pigs, some chickens, or one cow.  All for tax
deductions of course.  It helps if the farm is near a lake.

Another good one is "horse farm".  There is a particularly big one in
Ontario that specializes in horse racing... and never makes a profit.  Ha
ha
ha ha ha ha...

This is my opinion, of course.  But I saw many of these when I used to
enter
farm tax record

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

yes it qualifies. but as pointed out earlier in this thread, it goes into 
the Schedule A AFTER you have deducted a percentage of your income from the 
total of expenses.

In general, you need a LOT of business expenses to make it worth trying to 
deduct them as an individual


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:41:04 -0800
>
>Speaking about progressing in your current field wouldn't technical 
>training
>of dba qualify for a tax break under the same category as training for FAA
>ground instructor?  Otherwise, your FAA ground instructor registered as a
>private business (and we're back to the beginning of our discussion).
>Doesn't surprise me neither does it make me jealous.  There are so many
>different career decisions you can make.  I like being a dba..
>Btw, I am pretty sure you can write off your technical book fees even as an
>individual..
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:54 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Appearances to the contrary, Canada is a separate country with their own
>tax laws.
>
>However, the tax dodge that you mention is common here too.
>
>Here's a really good one -- become a Certified FAA Ground Instructor.  You
>teach people how to pass the FAA ground exam.  Since it's not life
>threatening, it's relatively simple to get this certificate.  Then get a
>student or two.  After that you can buy an airplane.  The airplane, the gas
>to fly it, the maintenance and hangering of the airplane, the cost of
>getting the experience necessary to become a Certified Flight Instructor
>(CFI), books, aircraft simulator software, landing fees, even the cost of
>overnight lodging in some cases, instructors' fees (in short, a whole ton
>of things that make flying a hobby for the rich) become tax deductable
>because they are helping you progress in your field as an instructor.  The
>IRS does not allow you to deduct training that qualifies you for a new
>field but it does allow you to deduct training that allows you to progress
>in your current field.  Because of the FAA requirements for becoming a CFI
>almost anything having to do with flying will count as "training".
>
>
>
>
>
> "Boivin, Patrice
>
> J"   To: Multiple recipients 
>of
>list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> mpo.gc.ca>   cc:
>
> Sent by: Subject: RE: OT -- 
>training
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
> 08/14/2001 04:17
>
> PM
>
> Please respond to
>
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know in Canada that some high-paid executives have "farms" in rural areas
>(ahem, cottages really) where they grow forage, seed, or raise a couple of
>sheep, rabbits, a few pigs, some chickens, or one cow.  All for tax
>deductions of course.  It helps if the farm is near a lake.
>
>Another good one is "horse farm".  There is a particularly big one in
>Ontario that specializes in horse racing... and never makes a profit.  Ha
>ha
>ha ha ha ha...
>
>This is my opinion, of course.  But I saw many of these when I used to
>enter
>farm tax records for Statistics Canada years ago.
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>  Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:44 PM
>  To:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  Subject:  RE: OT -- training
>
>  I guess that we'll let the IRS sort this one out.  Your friend is
>probably
>  right and I was probably overly emphatic when I said that you MUST
>show a
>  profit sometime.  But I would rather not leave it up to the IRS to
>decide
>  whether it is a business or a hobby.
>
>
>
>
>  "Post, Ethan"
>
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients
>of list ORACLE-L
>  m>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>  Sent by: cc:
>
>  root@fatcity.Subject: RE: OT --
>training
>  com
>
>
>
>
>
>  08/14/2001
>
>   

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

Each Presenter gets a 45-60 minute slot. Okay, Gaja gets two, he needs that 
much :)

Papers (if I can coerce, er, persuade the presenters to create one) go up on 
the website. Slides will definitely be there.

Should be lots of fun... I do love living in NY!

>From: "Ron Rogers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:41:41 -0800
>
>Rachel,
>I hope you have a lot of time set aside for the presentors. It sounds like 
>a great cast to listen to and a hard act to follow. A small note:  I 
>attended a seminar presented by Mike Ault and Rich Niemiec about the new 9i 
>database. There was not enough time in the evening to cover it completely. 
>Both speakers lived up to expectations and could have filled an additional 
>3 hours if given time.
>  I only wish that I was closer and able to attend. Will their papers be on 
>the website after the meeting?
>Thanks,
>ROR mª¿ªm
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/01 02:37PM >>>
>Yep, I got lucky, and called on a lot of people I know.
>
>For those of you lost in this semi-private conversation, the NYOUG meeting
>on September 12th (and yes, non-members are welcome) is being called the
>"Literary Lights" meeting.
>
>presenters include: our own Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha and Ari Kaplan, Rich
>Niemiec, Kevin Loney, Marlene Theriault, Douglas Scherer, John 
>Beresniewicz,
>Ulka Rodgers and Paul Dorsey.
>
>oh yeah, I'll be hanging out there. But I had so many great presenters I 
>had
>to bump myself off the agenda :)
>
>check it out, www.nyoug.org
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: OT -- training
> >Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:00:37 -0800
> >
> >Pretty amazing actually.  I won't feel so bad about missing the cruise 
>this
> >year :-( If I get get to attend this one.
> >
> >Jay Miller
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:21 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when
> >there
> >
> > >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
> > >
> > >
> > >Jay Miller
> > >
> >
> >
> >try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a 
>good
> >one!
> >
> >Rachel
> >
> >_
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Rachel Carmichael
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> >
> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Miller, Jay
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> >
> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>
>_
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San D

RE: OT -- training

[Post, Ethan]

Can someone encode the audio... :)

>-Original Message-
>From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 1:27 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
>Each Presenter gets a 45-60 minute slot. Okay, Gaja gets two, 
>he needs that 
>much :)
>
>Papers (if I can coerce, er, persuade the presenters to create 
>one) go up on 
>the website. Slides will definitely be there.
>
>Should be lots of fun... I do love living in NY!
>
>>From: "Ron Rogers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:41:41 -0800
>>
>>Rachel,
>>I hope you have a lot of time set aside for the presentors. 
>It sounds like 
>>a great cast to listen to and a hard act to follow. A small note:  I 
>>attended a seminar presented by Mike Ault and Rich Niemiec 
>about the new 9i 
>>database. There was not enough time in the evening to cover 
>it completely. 
>>Both speakers lived up to expectations and could have filled 
>an additional 
>>3 hours if given time.
>>  I only wish that I was closer and able to attend. Will 
>their papers be on 
>>the website after the meeting?
>>Thanks,
>>ROR mª¿ªm
>>
>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/01 02:37PM >>>
>>Yep, I got lucky, and called on a lot of people I know.
>>
>>For those of you lost in this semi-private conversation, the 
>NYOUG meeting
>>on September 12th (and yes, non-members are welcome) is being 
>called the
>>"Literary Lights" meeting.
>>
>>presenters include: our own Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha and Ari 
>Kaplan, Rich
>>Niemiec, Kevin Loney, Marlene Theriault, Douglas Scherer, John 
>>Beresniewicz,
>>Ulka Rodgers and Paul Dorsey.
>>
>>oh yeah, I'll be hanging out there. But I had so many great 
>presenters I 
>>had
>>to bump myself off the agenda :)
>>
>>check it out, www.nyoug.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Subject: RE: OT -- training
>> >Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:00:37 -0800
>> >
>> >Pretty amazing actually.  I won't feel so bad about missing 
>the cruise 
>>this
>> >year :-( If I get get to attend this one.
>> >
>> >Jay Miller
>> >
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:21 PM
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY 
>Users Group when
>> >there
>> >
>> > >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Jay Miller
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's 
>gonna be a 
>>good
>> >one!
>> >
>> >Rachel
>> >
>> >_
>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>> >
>> >--
>> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> >--
>> >Author: Rachel Carmichael
>> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / 
>Mailing Lists
>> >
>> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>> >--
>> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> >--
>> >Author: Miller, Jay
>> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / 
>Mailing Lists
>> >
>> 

RE: OT -- training

[lhoska]

Speaking about progressing in your current field wouldn't technical training
of dba qualify for a tax break under the same category as training for FAA
ground instructor?  Otherwise, your FAA ground instructor registered as a
private business (and we're back to the beginning of our discussion).
Doesn't surprise me neither does it make me jealous.  There are so many
different career decisions you can make.  I like being a dba..
Btw, I am pretty sure you can write off your technical book fees even as an
individual..
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Appearances to the contrary, Canada is a separate country with their own
tax laws.

However, the tax dodge that you mention is common here too.

Here's a really good one -- become a Certified FAA Ground Instructor.  You
teach people how to pass the FAA ground exam.  Since it's not life
threatening, it's relatively simple to get this certificate.  Then get a
student or two.  After that you can buy an airplane.  The airplane, the gas
to fly it, the maintenance and hangering of the airplane, the cost of
getting the experience necessary to become a Certified Flight Instructor
(CFI), books, aircraft simulator software, landing fees, even the cost of
overnight lodging in some cases, instructors' fees (in short, a whole ton
of things that make flying a hobby for the rich) become tax deductable
because they are helping you progress in your field as an instructor.  The
IRS does not allow you to deduct training that qualifies you for a new
field but it does allow you to deduct training that allows you to progress
in your current field.  Because of the FAA requirements for becoming a CFI
almost anything having to do with flying will count as "training".



 

"Boivin, Patrice

J"   To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

mpo.gc.ca>       cc:

    Sent by: Subject: RE: OT -- training

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

08/14/2001 04:17

PM

Please respond to

ORACLE-L

 

 





I know in Canada that some high-paid executives have "farms" in rural areas
(ahem, cottages really) where they grow forage, seed, or raise a couple of
sheep, rabbits, a few pigs, some chickens, or one cow.  All for tax
deductions of course.  It helps if the farm is near a lake.

Another good one is "horse farm".  There is a particularly big one in
Ontario that specializes in horse racing... and never makes a profit.  Ha
ha
ha ha ha ha...

This is my opinion, of course.  But I saw many of these when I used to
enter
farm tax records for Statistics Canada years ago.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:44 PM
 To:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:  RE: OT -- training

 I guess that we'll let the IRS sort this one out.  Your friend is
probably
 right and I was probably overly emphatic when I said that you MUST
show a
 profit sometime.  But I would rather not leave it up to the IRS to
decide
 whether it is a business or a hobby.




 "Post, Ethan"

 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients
of list ORACLE-L
 m>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

     Sent by: cc:

 root@fatcity.Subject: RE: OT --
training
 com





 08/14/2001

 01:17 PM

 Please

 respond to

 ORACLE-L









 Actually I talked to a friend who is pretty knowlegable about this
stuff
 and
 he says that what it will really come down to is intent.  The IRS is
not
 going to call your business a hobby if it is in fact unquestionably
a
 business, even if it has lost money for a period of years. - E

 >-Original Message-
 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 >Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:41 AM
 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 >Subject: RE: OT -- training
 >
 >
 >Check with your tax advisor again or get a new tax advisor.  I
don't
 >remember the exact details but you MUST show some tax-able profit
for a
 >certain number of years out of every so many years (eg, 1 year
 >out of the
 >last 4 - I'm not sure that those are the righ

RE: OT -- training

[tday6]

Appearances to the contrary, Canada is a separate country with their own
tax laws.

However, the tax dodge that you mention is common here too.

Here's a really good one -- become a Certified FAA Ground Instructor.  You
teach people how to pass the FAA ground exam.  Since it's not life
threatening, it's relatively simple to get this certificate.  Then get a
student or two.  After that you can buy an airplane.  The airplane, the gas
to fly it, the maintenance and hangering of the airplane, the cost of
getting the experience necessary to become a Certified Flight Instructor
(CFI), books, aircraft simulator software, landing fees, even the cost of
overnight lodging in some cases, instructors' fees (in short, a whole ton
of things that make flying a hobby for the rich) become tax deductable
because they are helping you progress in your field as an instructor.  The
IRS does not allow you to deduct training that qualifies you for a new
field but it does allow you to deduct training that allows you to progress
in your current field.  Because of the FAA requirements for becoming a CFI
almost anything having to do with flying will count as "training".



   

"Boivin, Patrice   

J"   To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

mpo.gc.ca>   cc:   

        Sent by: Subject: RE: OT -- training   

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   

   

   

08/14/2001 04:17   

PM 

Please respond to  

ORACLE-L   

   

   





I know in Canada that some high-paid executives have "farms" in rural areas
(ahem, cottages really) where they grow forage, seed, or raise a couple of
sheep, rabbits, a few pigs, some chickens, or one cow.  All for tax
deductions of course.  It helps if the farm is near a lake.

Another good one is "horse farm".  There is a particularly big one in
Ontario that specializes in horse racing... and never makes a profit.  Ha
ha
ha ha ha ha...

This is my opinion, of course.  But I saw many of these when I used to
enter
farm tax records for Statistics Canada years ago.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:44 PM
 To:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:  RE: OT -- training

 I guess that we'll let the IRS sort this one out.  Your friend is
probably
 right and I was probably overly emphatic when I said that you MUST
show a
 profit sometime.  But I would rather not leave it up to the IRS to
decide
 whether it is a business or a hobby.




 "Post, Ethan"

 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients
of list ORACLE-L
 m>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

         Sent by: cc:

 root@fatcity.Subject: RE: OT --
training
 com





 08/14/2001

 01:17 PM

 Please

 respond to

 ORACLE-L









 Actually I talked to a friend who is pretty knowlegable about this
stuff
 and
 he says that what it will really come down to is intent.  The IRS is
not
 going to call your business a hobby if it is in fact unquestionably
a
 business, even if it has lost money for a period of years. - E

 >-Original Message-
 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
     >Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:41 AM
 >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 >Subject: RE: OT -- training
 >
 >
 >Check with your t

RE: OT -- training

[Boivin, Patrice J]

I know in Canada that some high-paid executives have "farms" in rural areas
(ahem, cottages really) where they grow forage, seed, or raise a couple of
sheep, rabbits, a few pigs, some chickens, or one cow.  All for tax
deductions of course.  It helps if the farm is near a lake.

Another good one is "horse farm".  There is a particularly big one in
Ontario that specializes in horse racing... and never makes a profit.  Ha ha
ha ha ha ha...

This is my opinion, of course.  But I saw many of these when I used to enter
farm tax records for Statistics Canada years ago.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject:    RE: OT -- training

I guess that we'll let the IRS sort this one out.  Your friend is
probably
right and I was probably overly emphatic when I said that you MUST
show a
profit sometime.  But I would rather not leave it up to the IRS to
decide
whether it is a business or a hobby.




"Post, Ethan"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients
of list ORACLE-L  
m>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent by: cc:

            root@fatcity.Subject: RE: OT --
training   
com





08/14/2001

01:17 PM

Please

respond to

ORACLE-L









Actually I talked to a friend who is pretty knowlegable about this
stuff
and
he says that what it will really come down to is intent.  The IRS is
not
going to call your business a hobby if it is in fact unquestionably
a
business, even if it has lost money for a period of years. - E

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:41 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
>Check with your tax advisor again or get a new tax advisor.  I
don't
>remember the exact details but you MUST show some tax-able profit
for a
>certain number of years out of every so many years (eg, 1 year
>out of the
>last 4 - I'm not sure that those are the right numbers) or the IRS
will
>decide that your "business" is just a "hobby" and force you to
>go back and
>give up all your business deductions. It doesn't have to be a
>huge profit,
>but it does have to be a positive number.
>
>
>
>
>lhoska@calibr
>
>esys.com To: Multiple
>recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Sent by:
    ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>root@fatcity.cc:
>
>com  Subject: RE: OT
>-- training
>
>
>
>
>08/13/2001
>
>06:05 PM
>
>Please
>
>respond to
>
>ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I've heard from my tax adviser your business doesn't have to show
any
>profit
>for number of years after opening.  I suspect even then it is
>not required.
>What if you having hard time making profit?  It doesn't mean
>you have to
>close your business...I assume in that case you can also register
as a
>non-profit organization.  Are tax breaks better for
>non-profits?  I don't
>know..
>Also, if you don't already know.. some training companies
>(Learning Tree
>International per example) won't even register you for class
>if you're an
>individual.  You have to be a corporation.
>Lyuda
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>

RE: OT -- training

[Kevin Kostyszyn]

I'm definatley going to that one.
KK

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Rachel,
I hope you have a lot of time set aside for the presentors. It sounds like a
great cast to listen to and a hard act to follow. A small note:  I attended
a seminar presented by Mike Ault and Rich Niemiec about the new 9i database.
There was not enough time in the evening to cover it completely. Both
speakers lived up to expectations and could have filled an additional 3
hours if given time.
 I only wish that I was closer and able to attend. Will their papers be on
the website after the meeting?
Thanks,
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/01 02:37PM >>>
Yep, I got lucky, and called on a lot of people I know.

For those of you lost in this semi-private conversation, the NYOUG meeting
on September 12th (and yes, non-members are welcome) is being called the
"Literary Lights" meeting.

presenters include: our own Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha and Ari Kaplan, Rich
Niemiec, Kevin Loney, Marlene Theriault, Douglas Scherer, John Beresniewicz,
Ulka Rodgers and Paul Dorsey.

oh yeah, I'll be hanging out there. But I had so many great presenters I had
to bump myself off the agenda :)

check it out, www.nyoug.org




>From: "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:00:37 -0800
>
>Pretty amazing actually.  I won't feel so bad about missing the cruise this
>year :-( If I get get to attend this one.
>
>Jay Miller
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:21 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when
>there
>
> >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
> >
> >
> >Jay Miller
> >
>
>
>try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a good
>one!
>
>Rachel
>
>_
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Miller, Jay
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note E

RE: OT -- training

[Ron Rogers]

Rachel,
I hope you have a lot of time set aside for the presentors. It sounds like a great 
cast to listen to and a hard act to follow. A small note:  I attended a seminar 
presented by Mike Ault and Rich Niemiec about the new 9i database. There was not 
enough time in the evening to cover it completely. Both speakers lived up to 
expectations and could have filled an additional 3 hours if given time.
 I only wish that I was closer and able to attend. Will their papers be on the website 
after the meeting?
Thanks,
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/14/01 02:37PM >>>
Yep, I got lucky, and called on a lot of people I know.

For those of you lost in this semi-private conversation, the NYOUG meeting 
on September 12th (and yes, non-members are welcome) is being called the 
"Literary Lights" meeting.

presenters include: our own Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha and Ari Kaplan, Rich 
Niemiec, Kevin Loney, Marlene Theriault, Douglas Scherer, John Beresniewicz, 
Ulka Rodgers and Paul Dorsey.

oh yeah, I'll be hanging out there. But I had so many great presenters I had 
to bump myself off the agenda :)

check it out, www.nyoug.org 




>From: "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:00:37 -0800
>
>Pretty amazing actually.  I won't feel so bad about missing the cruise this
>year :-( If I get get to attend this one.
>
>Jay Miller
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:21 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when 
>there
>
> >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
> >
> >
> >Jay Miller
> >
>
>
>try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a good
>one!
>
>Rachel
>
>_
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp 
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
>--
>Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
>--
>Author: Miller, Jay
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


_
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RE: OT -- training

[tday6]

I guess that we'll let the IRS sort this one out.  Your friend is probably
right and I was probably overly emphatic when I said that you MUST show a
profit sometime.  But I would rather not leave it up to the IRS to decide
whether it is a business or a hobby.


   

"Post, Ethan"  

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  

m>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent by: cc:   

root@fatcity.Subject: RE: OT -- training   

com

   

   

08/14/2001 

01:17 PM   

Please 

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   





Actually I talked to a friend who is pretty knowlegable about this stuff
and
he says that what it will really come down to is intent.  The IRS is not
going to call your business a hobby if it is in fact unquestionably a
business, even if it has lost money for a period of years. - E

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:41 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
>Check with your tax advisor again or get a new tax advisor.  I don't
>remember the exact details but you MUST show some tax-able profit for a
>certain number of years out of every so many years (eg, 1 year
>out of the
>last 4 - I'm not sure that those are the right numbers) or the IRS will
>decide that your "business" is just a "hobby" and force you to
>go back and
>give up all your business deductions. It doesn't have to be a
>huge profit,
>but it does have to be a positive number.
>
>
>
>
>lhoska@calibr
>
>esys.com To: Multiple
>recipients of list ORACLE-L
>        Sent by:
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>root@fatcity.cc:
>
>com  Subject: RE: OT
>-- training
>
>
>
>
>08/13/2001
>
>06:05 PM
>
>Please
>
>respond to
>
>ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I've heard from my tax adviser your business doesn't have to show any
>profit
>for number of years after opening.  I suspect even then it is
>not required.
>What if you having hard time making profit?  It doesn't mean
>you have to
>close your business...I assume in that case you can also register as a
>non-profit organization.  Are tax breaks better for
>non-profits?  I don't
>know..
>Also, if you don't already know.. some training companies
>(Learning Tree
>International per example) won't even register you for class
>if you're an
>individual.  You have to be a corporation.
>Lyuda
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>You could create a web site that features some technical
>materials and use
>it to advertise your services if you are willing to moonlight on a few
>jobs,
>just enough to turn a profit within a couple years.  Then I
>would presume
>you would have no trouble writing the training off as a legitimate biz
>expense.
>
>- Ethan
>- http://www.geocities.com/epost1
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>>
>>
>>Patrice,
>> There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is
>>necessary to f

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

last I heard it was 1 year in 5


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:41:02 -0800
>
>Check with your tax advisor again or get a new tax advisor.  I don't
>remember the exact details but you MUST show some tax-able profit for a
>certain number of years out of every so many years (eg, 1 year out of the
>last 4 - I'm not sure that those are the right numbers) or the IRS will
>decide that your "business" is just a "hobby" and force you to go back and
>give up all your business deductions. It doesn't have to be a huge profit,
>but it does have to be a positive number.
>
>
>
> lhoska@calibr
> esys.com To: Multiple recipients of 
>list ORACLE-L
> Sent by: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     root@fatcity.cc:
> com  Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
> 08/13/2001
> 06:05 PM
> Please
> respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I've heard from my tax adviser your business doesn't have to show any
>profit
>for number of years after opening.  I suspect even then it is not required.
>What if you having hard time making profit?  It doesn't mean you have to
>close your business...I assume in that case you can also register as a
>non-profit organization.  Are tax breaks better for non-profits?  I don't
>know..
>Also, if you don't already know.. some training companies (Learning Tree
>International per example) won't even register you for class if you're an
>individual.  You have to be a corporation.
>Lyuda
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>You could create a web site that features some technical materials and use
>it to advertise your services if you are willing to moonlight on a few
>jobs,
>just enough to turn a profit within a couple years.  Then I would presume
>you would have no trouble writing the training off as a legitimate biz
>expense.
>
>- Ethan
>- http://www.geocities.com/epost1
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >Subject: Re: OT -- training
> >
> >
> >Patrice,
> > There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is
> >necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my
> >understanding of the Oracle processes. Even though I have
> >money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
> >case defining the gains to the company and after completing
> >the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me
> >the expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver
> >that I will pay the company back the full cost of the course
> >if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to say I
> >pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if
> >they ever get the bill signed into law.
> >ROR mª¿ªm
> >
> >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
> >Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
> >employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
> >
> >"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day
> >seminars given by
> >CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or
> >management-related stuff like
> >little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
> >
> >Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you
> >were told
> >during your job interview?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Patrice Boivin
> >Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> >
> >Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> >Technology Services| Services technologiques
> >Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> >Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> >
> >E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> >--
> >Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> >  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
&

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

no, first you need to write a book, then you PRAY for royalties


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:47:21 -0800
>
>Of course first you need some royalties!!
>
>LOL
>
>
>
>
> "Rachel
> Carmichael"  To: Multiple recipients of 
>list ORACLE-L
> 
> mail.com>        cc:
> Sent by: Subject: RE: OT -- training
> root@fatcity.
> com
>
>
> 08/13/2001
> 10:20 PM
> Please
> respond to
> ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>the other way to deduct the full amount of conferences/training is to write
>it off against royalties :)
>
>
>
> >From: "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: OT -- training
> >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:05:26 -0800
> >
> >You can deduct them on Line 20 of your schedule A for itemized 
>deductions.
> >
> >This is subject to some  HOWEVER's.
> >
> >You must take your 2% of your adjusted gross income and deduct it from
>that
> >deduction.  So if it cost you 2500 dollars to go to openworld and your
> >adjusted gross income (w2's, tips, ira deduction, student loan interest
> >deduction all factored) on line 34 of form 1040 is 50K then 2% of 50K is
> >1000 dollars.  So you can only deduct 1500 of the 2500 dollars.
> >
> >And if your standard deduction (4400 for single/ 7350 for married) is
> >higher
> >than your sched A, you won't write off any of it.
> >
> >
> >Joe gets that deduction off the top.  Before it ever hits his 1040.  So 
>he
> >gets the full 2500 plus all his other business deductions with no 2%
> >adjustment,  THEN he still gets any personal deductions of his standard
> >deduction.
> >
> >
> >So, yes, you can usually deduct it, but not entirely and at the expense 
>of
> >the standard deduction that you would already get.
> >
> >
> >--Chris
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:01 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >Either to don't need to incorporate, or my
> >tax accountant lied to me,  I don't know
> >which, but I have written off training
> >and IOUG-A trips (that were paid for 100% by
> >me) while I was an employee of
> >a consulting firm.
> >
> >(Is that the IRS I hear knocking?)
> >
> >
> >
> >Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Doing linear scans over an associative array is like
> >   trying to club someone to death with a loaded Uzi.
> >  - Larry Wall (creator of Perl)
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >You can't write off training.  you need to get incorporated.  I'm a
> >business
> >entity and if/when the company i work for won't pay for training, you can
> >bet it will get written off on my taxes, that includes all of the oracle
> >books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as a legitimate company
> >expense.
> >
> >2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send me to
> >openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i
>ate
> >the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
> >
> >joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>
> >Patrice,
> >There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further
> >my
> >knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
> >though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a
> >business
> >case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course
>with
> >a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
> >only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back the
>full
> >cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless
>to
> >say I pay for everyt

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

Yep, I got lucky, and called on a lot of people I know.

For those of you lost in this semi-private conversation, the NYOUG meeting 
on September 12th (and yes, non-members are welcome) is being called the 
"Literary Lights" meeting.

presenters include: our own Gaja Krishna Vaidyanatha and Ari Kaplan, Rich 
Niemiec, Kevin Loney, Marlene Theriault, Douglas Scherer, John Beresniewicz, 
Ulka Rodgers and Paul Dorsey.

oh yeah, I'll be hanging out there. But I had so many great presenters I had 
to bump myself off the agenda :)

check it out, www.nyoug.org




>From: "Miller, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:00:37 -0800
>
>Pretty amazing actually.  I won't feel so bad about missing the cruise this
>year :-( If I get get to attend this one.
>
>Jay Miller
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:21 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when 
>there
>
> >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
> >
> >
> >Jay Miller
> >
>
>
>try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a good
>one!
>
>Rachel
>
>_
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Miller, Jay
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Post, Ethan]

Actually I talked to a friend who is pretty knowlegable about this stuff and
he says that what it will really come down to is intent.  The IRS is not
going to call your business a hobby if it is in fact unquestionably a
business, even if it has lost money for a period of years. - E

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:41 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>
>
>Check with your tax advisor again or get a new tax advisor.  I don't
>remember the exact details but you MUST show some tax-able profit for a
>certain number of years out of every so many years (eg, 1 year 
>out of the
>last 4 - I'm not sure that those are the right numbers) or the IRS will
>decide that your "business" is just a "hobby" and force you to 
>go back and
>give up all your business deductions. It doesn't have to be a 
>huge profit,
>but it does have to be a positive number.
>
>
>   
>
>lhoska@calibr  
>
>esys.com To: Multiple 
>recipients of list ORACLE-L  
>Sent by: 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>root@fatcity.    cc:   
>
>com  Subject: RE: OT 
>-- training   
>   
>
>   
>
>08/13/2001 
>
>06:05 PM   
>
>Please 
>
>respond to 
>
>ORACLE-L   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>
>
>
>
>I've heard from my tax adviser your business doesn't have to show any
>profit
>for number of years after opening.  I suspect even then it is 
>not required.
>What if you having hard time making profit?  It doesn't mean 
>you have to
>close your business...I assume in that case you can also register as a
>non-profit organization.  Are tax breaks better for 
>non-profits?  I don't
>know..
>Also, if you don't already know.. some training companies 
>(Learning Tree
>International per example) won't even register you for class 
>if you're an
>individual.  You have to be a corporation.
>Lyuda
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>You could create a web site that features some technical 
>materials and use
>it to advertise your services if you are willing to moonlight on a few
>jobs,
>just enough to turn a profit within a couple years.  Then I 
>would presume
>you would have no trouble writing the training off as a legitimate biz
>expense.
>
>- Ethan
>- http://www.geocities.com/epost1
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>>
>>
>>Patrice,
>> There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is
>>necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my
>>understanding of the Oracle processes. Even though I have
>>money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
>>case defining the gains to the company and after completing
>>the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me
>>the expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver
>>that I will pay the company back the full cost of the course
>>if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to say I
>>pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if
>>they ever get the bill signed into law.
>>ROR mª¿ªm
>>
>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>>employer

RE: OT -- training

[Miller, Jay]

Pretty amazing actually.  I won't feel so bad about missing the cruise this
year :-( If I get get to attend this one.

Jay Miller


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



>On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when there

>aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
>
>
>Jay Miller
>


try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a good 
one!

Rachel

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Miller, Jay
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[tday6]

Check with your tax advisor again or get a new tax advisor.  I don't
remember the exact details but you MUST show some tax-able profit for a
certain number of years out of every so many years (eg, 1 year out of the
last 4 - I'm not sure that those are the right numbers) or the IRS will
decide that your "business" is just a "hobby" and force you to go back and
give up all your business deductions. It doesn't have to be a huge profit,
but it does have to be a positive number.


   

lhoska@calibr  

esys.com To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  

Sent by: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

root@fatcity.cc:   

        com  Subject: RE: OT -- training   

   

   

08/13/2001 

06:05 PM   

Please 

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   





I've heard from my tax adviser your business doesn't have to show any
profit
for number of years after opening.  I suspect even then it is not required.
What if you having hard time making profit?  It doesn't mean you have to
close your business...I assume in that case you can also register as a
non-profit organization.  Are tax breaks better for non-profits?  I don't
know..
Also, if you don't already know.. some training companies (Learning Tree
International per example) won't even register you for class if you're an
individual.  You have to be a corporation.
Lyuda

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


You could create a web site that features some technical materials and use
it to advertise your services if you are willing to moonlight on a few
jobs,
just enough to turn a profit within a couple years.  Then I would presume
you would have no trouble writing the training off as a legitimate biz
expense.

- Ethan
- http://www.geocities.com/epost1

>-Original Message-
>From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>
>
>Patrice,
> There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is
>necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my
>understanding of the Oracle processes. Even though I have
>money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
>case defining the gains to the company and after completing
>the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me
>the expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver
>that I will pay the company back the full cost of the course
>if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to say I
>pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if
>they ever get the bill signed into law.
>ROR mª¿ªm
>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
>
>"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day
>seminars given by
>CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or
>management-related stuff like
>little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
>
>Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you
>were told
>during your job interview?
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin

Re: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

$35


>From: "Thater, William" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 05:00:24 -0800
>
>Rachel Carmichael wrote:
> >
> > >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when 
>there
> > >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
> > >
> > >
> > >Jay Miller
> > >
> >
> > try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a 
>good
> > one!
> >
> > Rachel
>
>maybe if i'm out of work, i'll come down for it.  how much for
>non-members?
>
>
>
>--
>Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
>Telergy,Inc.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>One ping to rule them all,
>One ping to find them,
>One ping to bring them all,
>And in the MUTX bind them.
>
>I came, I saw, I deleted all your files.
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Thater, William
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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RE: OT -- training

[tday6]

Of course first you need some royalties!!

LOL



   

"Rachel

Carmichael"  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L  



mail.com>cc:   

Sent by: Subject:     RE: OT -- training   

root@fatcity.  

com

   

   

08/13/2001 

10:20 PM   

Please 

respond to 

ORACLE-L   

   

   






the other way to deduct the full amount of conferences/training is to write
it off against royalties :)



>From: "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:05:26 -0800
>
>You can deduct them on Line 20 of your schedule A for itemized deductions.
>
>This is subject to some  HOWEVER's.
>
>You must take your 2% of your adjusted gross income and deduct it from
that
>deduction.  So if it cost you 2500 dollars to go to openworld and your
>adjusted gross income (w2's, tips, ira deduction, student loan interest
>deduction all factored) on line 34 of form 1040 is 50K then 2% of 50K is
>1000 dollars.  So you can only deduct 1500 of the 2500 dollars.
>
>And if your standard deduction (4400 for single/ 7350 for married) is
>higher
>than your sched A, you won't write off any of it.
>
>
>Joe gets that deduction off the top.  Before it ever hits his 1040.  So he
>gets the full 2500 plus all his other business deductions with no 2%
>adjustment,  THEN he still gets any personal deductions of his standard
>deduction.
>
>
>So, yes, you can usually deduct it, but not entirely and at the expense of
>the standard deduction that you would already get.
>
>
>--Chris
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:01 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Either to don't need to incorporate, or my
>tax accountant lied to me,  I don't know
>which, but I have written off training
>and IOUG-A trips (that were paid for 100% by
>me) while I was an employee of
>a consulting firm.
>
>(Is that the IRS I hear knocking?)
>
>
>
>Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Doing linear scans over an associative array is like
>   trying to club someone to death with a loaded Uzi.
>  - Larry Wall (creator of Perl)
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>You can't write off training.  you need to get incorporated.  I'm a
>business
>entity and if/when the company i work for won't pay for training, you can
>bet it will get written off on my taxes, that includes all of the oracle
>books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as a legitimate company
>expense.
>
>2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send me to
>openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i
ate
>the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
>
>joe
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>
>Patrice,
>There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further
>my
>knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
>though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a
>business
>case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course
with
>a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
>only. I also have to sign a wa

Re: OT -- training

[Thater, William]

Rachel Carmichael wrote:
> 
> >On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when there
> >aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
> >
> >
> >Jay Miller
> >
> 
> try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a good
> one!
> 
> Rachel

maybe if i'm out of work, i'll come down for it.  how much for
non-members?



--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
Telergy,Inc.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

One ping to rule them all,
One ping to find them,
One ping to bring them all,
And in the MUTX bind them.

I came, I saw, I deleted all your files.
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Thater, William
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[April Wells]

I've heard of spare time.  

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:56 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

within the last 2 years, ... unfortunately none. Since I'm working at
the customer's site, I haven't had any training for the last 2 years. It
works more like: Me: "What about class XYZ", KeyAccountManager: "Do you
really need this ?", Me:"Yes, because of .. blah blah", KeyAccDamager:
"Ok. We'll get a book for you" -> means: "Read it in your spare time"

 
| Regards,   |
| Stefan Jahnke  |
 

"Boivin, Patrice J" schrieb:
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
> employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
> 
> "real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
> CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff
like
> little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
> 
> Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
> during your job interview?
> 
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> 
> Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> Technology Services| Services technologiques
> Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> 
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
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> Diese Mail wurde auf Viren ueberprueft
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Re: OT -- training

[Stefan Jahnke]

Hi,

within the last 2 years, ... unfortunately none. Since I'm working at
the customer's site, I haven't had any training for the last 2 years. It
works more like: Me: "What about class XYZ", KeyAccountManager: "Do you
really need this ?", Me:"Yes, because of .. blah blah", KeyAccDamager:
"Ok. We'll get a book for you" -> means: "Read it in your spare time"

 
| Regards,   |
| Stefan Jahnke  |
 

"Boivin, Patrice J" schrieb:
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
> employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
> 
> "real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
> CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
> little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
> 
> Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
> during your job interview?
> 
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> 
> Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> Technology Services| Services technologiques
> Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> 
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> ---
> This Mail has been checked for Viruses
> Attention: Encrypted Mails can NOT be checked !
> 
> ***
> 
> Diese Mail wurde auf Viren ueberprueft
> Hinweis: Verschluesselte Mails koennen NICHT geprueft werden!
> 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

>On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when there 
>aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).
>
>
>Jay Miller
>


try not to have any emergencies on September 12th :)   it's gonna be a good 
one!

Rachel

_
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

the other way to deduct the full amount of conferences/training is to write 
it off against royalties :)



>From: "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT -- training
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:05:26 -0800
>
>You can deduct them on Line 20 of your schedule A for itemized deductions.
>
>This is subject to some  HOWEVER's.
>
>You must take your 2% of your adjusted gross income and deduct it from that
>deduction.  So if it cost you 2500 dollars to go to openworld and your
>adjusted gross income (w2's, tips, ira deduction, student loan interest
>deduction all factored) on line 34 of form 1040 is 50K then 2% of 50K is
>1000 dollars.  So you can only deduct 1500 of the 2500 dollars.
>
>And if your standard deduction (4400 for single/ 7350 for married) is 
>higher
>than your sched A, you won't write off any of it.
>
>
>Joe gets that deduction off the top.  Before it ever hits his 1040.  So he
>gets the full 2500 plus all his other business deductions with no 2%
>adjustment,  THEN he still gets any personal deductions of his standard
>deduction.
>
>
>So, yes, you can usually deduct it, but not entirely and at the expense of
>the standard deduction that you would already get.
>
>
>--Chris
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:01 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Either to don't need to incorporate, or my
>tax accountant lied to me,  I don't know
>which, but I have written off training
>and IOUG-A trips (that were paid for 100% by
>me) while I was an employee of
>a consulting firm.
>
>(Is that the IRS I hear knocking?)
>
>
>
>Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Doing linear scans over an associative array is like
>   trying to club someone to death with a loaded Uzi.
>  - Larry Wall (creator of Perl)
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>You can't write off training.  you need to get incorporated.  I'm a 
>business
>entity and if/when the company i work for won't pay for training, you can
>bet it will get written off on my taxes, that includes all of the oracle
>books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as a legitimate company
>expense.
>
>2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send me to
>openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i ate
>the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
>
>joe
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>
>Patrice,
>There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further 
>my
>knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
>though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a 
>business
>case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course with
>a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
>only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back the full
>cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to
>say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if they
>ever get the bill signed into law.
>ROR mª¿ªm
>
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
>
>"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
>CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff 
>like
>little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
>
>Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
>during your job interview?
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] < mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
><http://www.orafaq.com>
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
&

RE: OT -- training

[Christopher Spence]

Title: Message



Yes, you will get 1099 to your 
social number.  Which is enough to do a business who has no 
employees/benefits.
 
 
"Do not criticize someone until you walked a 
mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and 
have their shoes."
Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:    (707) 885-2275 
Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863   

  
  -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 6:26 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  OT -- training
  Really?  I was told 
  that  if you are an independent NON 
  incorporated entity, you will get a 1099 to your social security number.  
  If you incorporate as a 1099 business (sole prop, non schedule C company) then 
  your company will get a 1099.
   
  If you are an S corp or a C 
  corp, and have a corporate EIN then usually you won't get any 
  1099's.
   
  Either way, there will be 
  paper work and numbers needed and your income will be 
  reportted.
   
  Most companies that I have 
  dealt with have demanded that you be incorporated as a C or S corp.  The 
  reason is if you're not an s or c corporation and you're getting any kind of 
  benefit from a company that you're doing work for and not an employee of, then 
  the IRS can (and will, if they discover it), charge that company for your FICA 
  taxes and FUTA taxes.   They can also declare you an employee of 
  them, exposing them to lawsuits from you.
   
  If you are incorporated, then 
  the likelyhood of the IRS telling a company using your work that they are 
  responsible for your payroll taxes goes down.  It's not nonexistant, but 
  it does go down.
   
  I'll have to look this up to 
  see where I am wrong.
   
  --Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   
  
-Original Message-From: Christopher Spence 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:58 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
OT -- training
Generally the way it works 
(at least in NH)
 
If you do not hire 
employee's, give benefits you do not need a tax id.
Although alot of companys 
are very uncomfortable dealing with people without tax 
id's.
If you are by yourself 
you generally will not need a tax id.  Although it may prove benefitial 
to have one to make it easier when dealing with larger companies who feel 
insecure.
 
 
"Do not criticize someone until you walked a 
mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way 
and have their shoes."
Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:    (707) 885-2275 
Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863   

  
  -Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 
  4:40 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: OT -- training
  That i dont know for sure, i incorporated so there would 
  be less questions from the IRS, got a taxid the whole thing, separate 
  checking acct, credit cards, so there is a definite separation between 
  business money and personal money.
   
  joe
   
   
  oh and my original statement should have been a 
  question
   
  You can't write off training?
   
   
  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 04:11PM 
  >>>Joe do you actually have to get incorporated or can you 
  just file as aprivate business? - E-Original 
  Message-From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 
  Monday, August 13, 2001 12:42 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LYou can't write off training.  you need to get 
  incorporated.  I'm a businessentity and if/when the company i 
  work for won't pay for training, you canbet it will get written off on 
  my taxes, that includes all of the oraclebooks, OCP exams, you name 
  it, it gets deducted as a legitimate companyexpense.  2 
  years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send me 
  toopenworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), 
  so i atethe cost and wrote the entire trip 
  off.joe>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  08/13/01 02:41PM >>>Patrice,There is "resistance" to any 
  training that I feel is necessary to further myknowledge and/or 
  enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Eventhough I have 
  money in the budget for such items I have to submit a businesscase 
  defining the gains to the company and after completing the course 
  witha passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the 
  courseonly. I also have to sign a wav

Re: OT -- training

[Joe Testa]

Kewl, i never really knew how it worked, got a CPA to make sure that all
happens, i just send her a spreadsheet with the numbers of all my
receipts(in case irs comes knocking), and she does the rest :)

joe

-- 
Joe Testa  
Performing Remote DBA Services, need some backup DBA support?
For Sale: Oracle-dba.com domain, its not going cheap but feel free to
ask :)
IM: n8xcthome or joen8xct
-- 
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-- 
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Bowes, Chris]

Title: Message



Really?  I was told 
that  if you are an independent NON 
incorporated entity, you will get a 1099 to your social security number.  
If you incorporate as a 1099 business (sole prop, non schedule C company) then 
your company will get a 1099.
 
If you are an S corp or a C 
corp, and have a corporate EIN then usually you won't get any 
1099's.
 
Either way, there will be paper 
work and numbers needed and your income will be reportted.
 
Most companies that I have 
dealt with have demanded that you be incorporated as a C or S corp.  The 
reason is if you're not an s or c corporation and you're getting any kind of 
benefit from a company that you're doing work for and not an employee of, then 
the IRS can (and will, if they discover it), charge that company for your FICA 
taxes and FUTA taxes.   They can also declare you an employee of them, 
exposing them to lawsuits from you.
 
If you are incorporated, then 
the likelyhood of the IRS telling a company using your work that they are 
responsible for your payroll taxes goes down.  It's not nonexistant, but it 
does go down.
 
I'll have to look this up to 
see where I am wrong.
 
--Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

  -Original Message-From: Christopher Spence 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:58 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  OT -- training
  Generally the way it works 
  (at least in NH)
   
  If you do not hire 
  employee's, give benefits you do not need a tax id.
  Although alot of companys are 
  very uncomfortable dealing with people without tax id's.
  If you are by yourself 
  you generally will not need a tax id.  Although it may prove benefitial 
  to have one to make it easier when dealing with larger companies who feel 
  insecure.
   
   
  "Do not criticize someone until you walked a 
  mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way 
  and have their shoes."
  Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:    (707) 885-2275 
  Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863   
  

-Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 
4:40 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: OT -- training
That i dont know for sure, i incorporated so there would 
be less questions from the IRS, got a taxid the whole thing, separate 
checking acct, credit cards, so there is a definite separation between 
business money and personal money.
 
joe
 
 
oh and my original statement should have been a 
question
 
You can't write off training?
 
 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 04:11PM >>>Joe 
do you actually have to get incorporated or can you just file as 
aprivate business? - E-Original Message-From: JOE 
TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 
Monday, August 13, 2001 12:42 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LYou can't write off training.  you need to get 
incorporated.  I'm a businessentity and if/when the company i work 
for won't pay for training, you canbet it will get written off on my 
taxes, that includes all of the oraclebooks, OCP exams, you name it, it 
gets deducted as a legitimate companyexpense.  2 years ago 
the company i was working for didnt want to send me toopenworld(and I 
knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i atethe cost and 
wrote the entire trip off.joe>>> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>Patrice,There is 
"resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further 
myknowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. 
Eventhough I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a 
businesscase defining the gains to the company and after completing the 
course witha passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses 
for the courseonly. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the 
company back the fullcost of the course if I leave their employment 
before 365 days. Needless tosay I pay for everything myself and hope to 
write it off on taxes if theyever get the bill signed into law.ROR 
mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM 
>>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real 
training did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day 
seminars given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or 
management-related stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from 
universities.Oh, and did the amount of training you received match 
what you were toldduring your job interview?Regards,Patrice 
BoivinSystems

RE: OT -- training

[Miller, Jay]

When I first started with the company I was told I'd be sent to training
every year.  Nothing.
When I was promoted to my full-time DBA position I asked for training.  I
was told I didn't need it.  I took classes on my own time and dollar.
After 4 years with the company I was finally allowed to go to a week of
Oracle Training (the excellent Internals seminars).  Nothing in the year
since then.
I was allowed to go to ECO when it was held in NYC, but not to any out of
town conferences.

The company, in an effort to cut costs, has now said that all training must
be web based.  Which means that I would be sitting here with everyone asking
me to do my usual work while "training".  Don't think I'll notice much
difference.

On the other hand, I can take the day off for the NY Users Group when there
aren't any emergencies (about 50% of the time).


Jay Miller


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

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RE: OT -- training

[Stephen Andert]

Christopher, 

On that same thought, I read the best response to a company who won't train their 
people because "then they'll leave".  

Which would you rather have happen?  Train people and have them leave or not train 
them and have them stay?  I know where I'd rather work.



Stephen Andert


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13 12:53 PM >>>
Very common what you explained.

I think businesses are afraid to do training as they think you will become
more marketable and opt to leave.
If they are afraid of that, they should fix the problems or give more money
to make it so you would not want to leave.  If they themselves think your
going to leave because of training, they must already know it sucks and they
should fix it.

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Patrice,
 There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further
my knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course with
a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back the full
cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to
say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if they
ever get the bill signed into law. ROR mª¿ªm 

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

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RE: OT -- training

[Bowes, Chris]

You can deduct them on Line 20 
of your schedule A for itemized deductions. 
 
This is subject to 
some  HOWEVER's.  

 
You must take your 2% of your 
adjusted gross income and deduct it from that deduction.  So if it cost you 
2500 dollars to go to openworld and your adjusted gross income (w2's, tips, ira 
deduction, student loan interest deduction all factored) on line 34 of form 1040 
is 50K then 2% of 50K is 1000 dollars.  So you can only deduct 1500 of the 
2500 dollars.
 
And if your standard deduction 
(4400 for single/ 7350 for married) is higher than your sched A, you won't write 
off any of it.  
 
 
Joe gets that deduction off the 
top.  Before it ever hits his 1040.  So he gets the full 2500 plus all 
his other business deductions with no 2% adjustment,  THEN he still gets 
any personal deductions of his standard deduction.  

 
 
So, yes, you can usually deduct 
it, but not entirely and at the expense of the standard deduction that you would 
already get.
 
--Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

  -Original Message-From: Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130) 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:01 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  OT -- training
  Either to 
  don't need to incorporate, or my 
  tax 
  accountant lied to me,  I don't know
  which, but 
  I have written off training
  and IOUG-A 
  trips (that were paid for 100% by
  me) while 
  I was an employee of
  a 
  consulting firm.
   
  (Is that 
  the IRS I hear knocking?)
   
   Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doing linear scans over an associative array is 
  like   trying to club someone 
  to death with a loaded Uzi.  
  - Larry Wall (creator of Perl) 
   
  
-Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
OT -- training
You can't write off training.  you need to get 
incorporated.  I'm a business entity and if/when the company i work for 
won't pay for training, you can bet it will get written off on my taxes, 
that includes all of the oracle books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets 
deducted as a legitimate company expense.  
 
2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to 
send me to openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months 
anyways), so i ate the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
 
joe
 
 
 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM 
>>>Patrice,There is "resistance" to any training that I 
feel is necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of 
the Oracle processes. Even though I have money in the budget for such items 
I have to submit a business case defining the gains to the company and after 
completing the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me the 
expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay 
the company back the full cost of the course if I leave their employment 
before 365 days. Needless to say I pay for everything myself and hope to 
write it off on taxes if they ever get the bill signed into law.ROR 
mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM 
>>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real 
training did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day 
seminars given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or 
management-related stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from 
universities.Oh, and did the amount of training you received match 
what you were toldduring your job interview?Regards,Patrice 
BoivinSystems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)Systems Admin & 
Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmesTechnology 
Services    | Services 
technologiquesInformatics 
Branch | Direction de 
l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO  | 
Région des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com --Author: 
Boivin, Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City 
Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 
538-5051San Diego, California    
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ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
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HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please 
see the official ORACLE

RE: OT -- training

[Ron Thomas]

An LLC (Limited Liability Company) should give you the same protections and tax 
write-off as a corp
except with less paperwork.

Ron Thomas
Hypercom, Inc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Either lead by example, or become a terrible warning"


   
   
JTESTA@longab  
   
erger.comTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   
Sent by: cc:   
   
root@fatcity.Subject: RE: OT -- training   
   
com
   
   
   
   
   
08/13/01   
   
01:39 PM   
   
Please 
   
respond to 
   
ORACLE-L   
   
   
   
   
   




That i dont know for sure, i incorporated so there would be less questions from the 
IRS, got a taxid
the whole thing, separate checking acct, credit cards, so there is a definite 
separation between
business money and personal money.

joe


oh and my original statement should have been a question

You can't write off training?




>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 04:11PM >>>
Joe do you actually have to get incorporated or can you just file as a
private business? - E

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


You can't write off training.  you need to get incorporated.  I'm a business
entity and if/when the company i work for won't pay for training, you can
bet it will get written off on my taxes, that includes all of the oracle
books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as a legitimate company
expense.

2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send me to
openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i ate
the cost and wrote the entire trip off.

joe





>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>
Patrice,
There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further my
knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course with
a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back the full
cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to
say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if they
ever get the bill signed into law.
ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] < mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >

--
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<http://www.orafaq.com>
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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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RE: OT -- training

[lhoska]

knock, 
knock...
:-)
 
 
p.s. I always wondered if you 
can put blame on your tax adviser in case of trouble.  I suspect, they 
won't buy it...

  [Lyuda Hoska]  -Original 
  Message-From: Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130) 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:01 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  OT -- training
  Either to 
  don't need to incorporate, or my 
  tax 
  accountant lied to me,  I don't know
  which, but 
  I have written off training
  and IOUG-A 
  trips (that were paid for 100% by
  me) while 
  I was an employee of
  a 
  consulting firm.
   
  (Is that 
  the IRS I hear knocking?)
   
   Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doing linear scans over an associative array is 
  like   trying to club someone 
  to death with a loaded Uzi.  
  - Larry Wall (creator of Perl) 
   
  
-Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
    OT -- training
You can't write off training.  you need to get 
incorporated.  I'm a business entity and if/when the company i work for 
won't pay for training, you can bet it will get written off on my taxes, 
that includes all of the oracle books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets 
deducted as a legitimate company expense.  
 
2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to 
send me to openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months 
anyways), so i ate the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
 
joe
 
 
 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM 
>>>Patrice,There is "resistance" to any training that I 
feel is necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of 
the Oracle processes. Even though I have money in the budget for such items 
I have to submit a business case defining the gains to the company and after 
completing the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me the 
expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay 
the company back the full cost of the course if I leave their employment 
before 365 days. Needless to say I pay for everything myself and hope to 
write it off on taxes if they ever get the bill signed into law.ROR 
mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM 
>>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real 
training did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day 
seminars given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or 
management-related stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from 
universities.Oh, and did the amount of training you received match 
what you were toldduring your job interview?Regards,Patrice 
BoivinSystems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)Systems Admin & 
Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmesTechnology 
Services    | Services 
technologiquesInformatics 
Branch | Direction de 
l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO  | 
Région des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com --Author: 
Boivin, Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City 
Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 
538-5051San Diego, California    
-- Public Internet access / Mailing 
ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe 
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mailing list you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the 
HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please 
see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Ron 
Rogers  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 
538-5051San Diego, California    
-- Public Internet access / Mailing 
ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
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HELP command for other information (like 
subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[lhoska]

I've heard from my tax adviser your business doesn't have to show any profit
for number of years after opening.  I suspect even then it is not required.
What if you having hard time making profit?  It doesn't mean you have to
close your business...I assume in that case you can also register as a
non-profit organization.  Are tax breaks better for non-profits?  I don't
know..
Also, if you don't already know.. some training companies (Learning Tree
International per example) won't even register you for class if you're an
individual.  You have to be a corporation.
Lyuda

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


You could create a web site that features some technical materials and use
it to advertise your services if you are willing to moonlight on a few jobs,
just enough to turn a profit within a couple years.  Then I would presume
you would have no trouble writing the training off as a legitimate biz
expense.

- Ethan
- http://www.geocities.com/epost1

>-Original Message-
>From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>
>
>Patrice,
> There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is 
>necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my 
>understanding of the Oracle processes. Even though I have 
>money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business 
>case defining the gains to the company and after completing 
>the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me 
>the expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver 
>that I will pay the company back the full cost of the course 
>if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to say I 
>pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if 
>they ever get the bill signed into law.
>ROR mª¿ªm 
>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
>
>"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day 
>seminars given by
>CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or 
>management-related stuff like
>little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
>
>Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you 
>were told
>during your job interview?
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>-- 
>Author: Ron Rogers
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


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RE: OT -- training

[Christopher Spence]

Title: Message



Generally the way it works (at 
least in NH)
 
If you do not hire employee's, 
give benefits you do not need a tax id.
Although alot of companys are 
very uncomfortable dealing with people without tax id's.
If you are by yourself you 
generally will not need a tax id.  Although it may prove benefitial to have 
one to make it easier when dealing with larger companies who feel 
insecure.
 
 
"Do not criticize someone until you walked a 
mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and 
have their shoes."
Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:    (707) 885-2275 
Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863   

  
  -Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:40 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  OT -- training
  That i dont know for sure, i incorporated so there would be 
  less questions from the IRS, got a taxid the whole thing, separate checking 
  acct, credit cards, so there is a definite separation between business money 
  and personal money.
   
  joe
   
   
  oh and my original statement should have been a 
  question
   
  You can't write off training?
   
   
  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 04:11PM >>>Joe 
  do you actually have to get incorporated or can you just file as aprivate 
  business? - E-Original Message-From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 
  Monday, August 13, 2001 12:42 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LYou can't write off training.  you need to get 
  incorporated.  I'm a businessentity and if/when the company i work 
  for won't pay for training, you canbet it will get written off on my 
  taxes, that includes all of the oraclebooks, OCP exams, you name it, it 
  gets deducted as a legitimate companyexpense.  2 years ago 
  the company i was working for didnt want to send me toopenworld(and I knew 
  i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i atethe cost and wrote 
  the entire trip off.joe>>> 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>Patrice,There is 
  "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further 
  myknowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. 
  Eventhough I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a 
  businesscase defining the gains to the company and after completing the 
  course witha passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for 
  the courseonly. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company 
  back the fullcost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 
  days. Needless tosay I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off 
  on taxes if theyever get the bill signed into law.ROR mª¿ªm 
  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM 
  >>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training 
  did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
  years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars 
  given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related 
  stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.Oh, 
  and did the amount of training you received match what you were toldduring 
  your job interview?Regards,Patrice BoivinSystems Analyst 
  (Oracle Certified DBA)Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et 
  Exploit. des systèmesTechnology 
  Services    | Services 
  technologiquesInformatics 
  Branch | Direction de 
  l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO  | 
  Région des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] < mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  > --Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com<http://www.orafaq.com>  
  --Author: Boivin, Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  
  FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, 
  California    -- Public Internet access 
  / Mailing 
  ListsTo 
  REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message 
  BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing 
  list you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the HELP command 
  for other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official 
  ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com<http://www.orafaq.com> --Author: 
  Ron Rogers  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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  Diego, California    -- Public Internet 
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  ListsTo 
  REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
  [EMAIL PROT

RE: OT -- training

[JOE TESTA]

That i dont know for sure, i incorporated so there would be 
less questions from the IRS, got a taxid the whole thing, separate checking 
acct, credit cards, so there is a definite separation between business money and 
personal money.
 
joe
 
 
oh and my original statement should have been a 
question
 
You can't write off training?
 
 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 04:11PM >>>Joe do 
you actually have to get incorporated or can you just file as aprivate 
business? - E-Original Message-From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 
Monday, August 13, 2001 12:42 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LYou can't write off training.  you need to get 
incorporated.  I'm a businessentity and if/when the company i work for 
won't pay for training, you canbet it will get written off on my taxes, that 
includes all of the oraclebooks, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as 
a legitimate companyexpense.  2 years ago the company i was 
working for didnt want to send me toopenworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in 
less than 2months anyways), so i atethe cost and wrote the entire trip 
off.joe>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
08/13/01 02:41PM >>>Patrice,There is "resistance" to any 
training that I feel is necessary to further myknowledge and/or enhance my 
understanding of the Oracle processes. Eventhough I have money in the budget 
for such items I have to submit a businesscase defining the gains to the 
company and after completing the course witha passing grade the company will 
reimburse me the expenses for the courseonly. I also have to sign a waver 
that I will pay the company back the fullcost of the course if I leave their 
employment before 365 days. Needless tosay I pay for everything myself and 
hope to write it off on taxes if theyever get the bill signed into 
law.ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 
11:46AM >>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real 
training did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars 
given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related 
stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.Oh, 
and did the amount of training you received match what you were toldduring 
your job interview?Regards,Patrice BoivinSystems Analyst (Oracle 
Certified DBA)Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des 
systèmesTechnology Services    | 
Services technologiquesInformatics 
Branch | Direction de 
l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région 
des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] < mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> --Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com  
--Author: Boivin, Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: 
(858) 538-5051San Diego, 
California    -- Public Internet access / 
Mailing 
ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message 
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you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the HELP command for 
other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official 
ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com --Author: Ron 
Rogers  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051San 
Diego, California    -- Public Internet 
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ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
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BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list 
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other information (like 
subscribing).--This 
e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain 
privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from 
disclosure under law.  If you have received this message in error, please 
inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any 
printed copy.   Thank 
you.==--Please 
see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Post, 
Ethan  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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Re: OT -- training

[Rachel Carmichael]

SEOUC instead of ECO :)




>From: "JOE TESTA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:30:38 -0800
>
>Well i get to go to IOUG every year(even if i wasn't presenting), i bypass 
>on openworld and was hoping to do the ECO thing before they went under :(
>
>joe
>
>
>- Original Message -
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:46 AM
>
>
>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
>
>"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
>CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff 
>like
>little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
>
>Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
>during your job interview?
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: Bill Gentry
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
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>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: OT -- training

[Adams, Matthew (GEA, 088130)]

Either to 
don't need to incorporate, or my 
tax 
accountant lied to me,  I don't know
which, but I 
have written off training
and IOUG-A 
trips (that were paid for 100% by
me) while I 
was an employee of
a consulting 
firm.
 
(Is that the 
IRS I hear knocking?)
 
 Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doing linear scans over an associative array is 
like   trying to club someone to 
death with a loaded Uzi.  
- Larry Wall (creator of Perl) 
 

  -Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:42 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
  OT -- training
  You can't write off training.  you need to get 
  incorporated.  I'm a business entity and if/when the company i work for 
  won't pay for training, you can bet it will get written off on my taxes, that 
  includes all of the oracle books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as 
  a legitimate company expense.  
   
  2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send 
  me to openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i 
  ate the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
   
  joe
   
   
   
  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM 
  >>>Patrice,There is "resistance" to any training that I feel 
  is necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the 
  Oracle processes. Even though I have money in the budget for such items I have 
  to submit a business case defining the gains to the company and after 
  completing the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me the 
  expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the 
  company back the full cost of the course if I leave their employment before 
  365 days. Needless to say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off 
  on taxes if they ever get the bill signed into law.ROR mª¿ªm 
  >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM 
  >>>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training 
  did youremployer provide you with in the last couple of 
  years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars 
  given byCareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related 
  stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.Oh, 
  and did the amount of training you received match what you were toldduring 
  your job interview?Regards,Patrice BoivinSystems Analyst 
  (Oracle Certified DBA)Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et 
  Exploit. des systèmesTechnology 
  Services    | Services 
  technologiquesInformatics 
  Branch | Direction de 
  l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO  | 
  Région des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  --Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com --Author: 
  Boivin, Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City 
  Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 
  538-5051San Diego, California    -- 
  Public Internet access / Mailing 
  ListsTo 
  REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message 
  BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing 
  list you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the HELP command 
  for other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official 
  ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Ron 
  Rogers  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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  Diego, California    -- Public Internet 
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  for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Post, Ethan]

Joe do you actually have to get incorporated or can you just file as a
private business? - E

-Original Message-
From: JOE TESTA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


You can't write off training.  you need to get incorporated.  I'm a business
entity and if/when the company i work for won't pay for training, you can
bet it will get written off on my taxes, that includes all of the oracle
books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as a legitimate company
expense.  
 
2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send me to
openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i ate
the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
 
joe
 
 
 


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM >>>
Patrice,
There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further my
knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course with
a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back the full
cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to
say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if they
ever get the bill signed into law.
ROR mª¿ªm 

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] < mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > 

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



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--
Author: Post, Ethan
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Christopher Spence]

Very common what you explained.

I think businesses are afraid to do training as they think you will become
more marketable and opt to leave.
If they are afraid of that, they should fix the problems or give more money
to make it so you would not want to leave.  If they themselves think your
going to leave because of training, they must already know it sucks and they
should fix it.

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:42 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Patrice,
 There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further
my knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even
though I have money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business
case defining the gains to the company and after completing the course with
a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for the course
only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back the full
cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to
say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if they
ever get the bill signed into law. ROR mª¿ªm 

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
--
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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RE: OT -- training

[Christopher Spence]

Hey good idea.

I am going to write an expense report for all the time I spent reading and
payable due to "Christopher R. Spence Training Facility".  

I am going to be rich!

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:06 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Better than that... training... read the PDFs and claim training hours for
reading them... preferably charged to another department if possible.

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


HA HA HA HA

YEA FREAKIN RIGHT

Seven monthsno training...none scheduled."3000 dollar budget" which
is one (1) oracle course.not great.

HA HA HA HA

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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The information contained in this e-mail is strictly confidential and for
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Author: April Wells
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT -- training

[JOE TESTA]

You can't write off training.  you need to get 
incorporated.  I'm a business entity and if/when the company i work for 
won't pay for training, you can bet it will get written off on my taxes, that 
includes all of the oracle books, OCP exams, you name it, it gets deducted as a 
legitimate company expense.  
 
2 years ago the company i was working for didnt want to send 
me to openworld(and I knew i'd be leaving in less than 2months anyways), so i 
ate the cost and wrote the entire trip off.
 
joe
 
 
 
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 02:41PM 
>>>Patrice,There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is 
necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle 
processes. Even though I have money in the budget for such items I have to 
submit a business case defining the gains to the company and after completing 
the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me the expenses for 
the course only. I also have to sign a waver that I will pay the company back 
the full cost of the course if I leave their employment before 365 days. 
Needless to say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if 
they ever get the bill signed into law.ROR mª¿ªm >>> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>Just out of 
curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did youremployer provide 
you with in the last couple of years?"real" is in quotes, I don't mean 
the little 1 - 3 day seminars given byCareerTrack and other "training" 
companies, or management-related stuff likelittle MBA-flavoured certificates 
from universities.Oh, and did the amount of training you received match 
what you were toldduring your job interview?Regards,Patrice 
BoivinSystems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)Systems Admin & 
Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmesTechnology 
Services    | Services 
technologiquesInformatics 
Branch | Direction de 
l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région 
des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com --Author: Boivin, 
Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network 
Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051San 
Diego, California    -- Public Internet 
access / Mailing 
ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message 
BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list 
you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the HELP command for 
other information (like subscribing).--Please see the official 
ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Ron 
Rogers  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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other information (like subscribing).

Re: OT -- training

[JOE TESTA]

Well i get to go to IOUG every year(even if i wasn't presenting), i bypass 
on openworld and was hoping to do the ECO thing before they went under :(
 
joe
 
 
- Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:46 
AMJust out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did 
youremployer provide you with in the last couple of years?"real" is 
in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given byCareerTrack 
and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff likelittle 
MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.Oh, and did the amount of 
training you received match what you were toldduring your job 
interview?Regards,Patrice BoivinSystems Analyst (Oracle 
Certified DBA)Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des 
systèmesTechnology Services    | 
Services technologiquesInformatics 
Branch | Direction de 
l'informatiqueMaritimes Region, DFO  | Région 
des Maritimes, MPOE-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Please 
see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Boivin, 
Patrice J  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051San 
Diego, California    -- Public Internet 
access / Mailing 
ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message 
BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list 
you want to be removed from).  You mayalso send the HELP command for 
other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official 
ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- 
Author: Bill Gentry  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City 
Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 
538-5051San Diego, California    -- 
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ListsTo 
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: 
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other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Christopher Spence]

0

No it didn't match.
Besides one company, I have yet to accomplish any training.  Hense my heavy
spending on books.
Although I hardly ask as I know the answers.

"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way
when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."

Christopher R. Spence  OCP  MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA
Oracle DBA
Phone: (978) 322-5744
Fax:(707) 885-2275

Fuelspot
73 Princeton Street
North, Chelmsford 01863
 



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: OT -- training

[Post, Ethan]

You could create a web site that features some technical materials and use
it to advertise your services if you are willing to moonlight on a few jobs,
just enough to turn a profit within a couple years.  Then I would presume
you would have no trouble writing the training off as a legitimate biz
expense.

- Ethan
- http://www.geocities.com/epost1

>-Original Message-
>From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 11:42 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: Re: OT -- training
>
>
>Patrice,
> There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is 
>necessary to further my knowledge and/or enhance my 
>understanding of the Oracle processes. Even though I have 
>money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business 
>case defining the gains to the company and after completing 
>the course with a passing grade the company will reimburse me 
>the expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver 
>that I will pay the company back the full cost of the course 
>if I leave their employment before 365 days. Needless to say I 
>pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on taxes if 
>they ever get the bill signed into law.
>ROR mª¿ªm 
>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
>Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
>employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
>
>"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day 
>seminars given by
>CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or 
>management-related stuff like
>little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
>
>Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you 
>were told
>during your job interview?
>
>Regards,
>Patrice Boivin
>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
>Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
>Technology Services| Services technologiques
>Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
>Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
>
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
>--
>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>-- 
>Author: Ron Rogers
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
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>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Author: Post, Ethan
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: OT -- training

[April Wells]

Better than that... training... read the PDFs and claim training hours for
reading them... preferably charged to another department if possible.

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


HA HA HA HA

YEA FREAKIN RIGHT

Seven monthsno training...none scheduled."3000 dollar budget" which
is one (1)
oracle course.not great.

HA HA HA HA

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

-- 
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-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying of the information by 
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attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses.  We accept no liability for any 
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virus checks before opening any attachment.

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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: April Wells
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: OT -- training

[Deshpande, Kirti]

They promised a total of 10 days of Training per calendar year when I was
interviewed. And I received all of it for the past 4 years (even in my 1st
partial year).  It is up to us to use those 10 days as we please. Either go
to conferences or any combination of conference days + Oracle ILT days. If
the project needs more education in Oracle Technologies, then it can be also
arranged as a part of the new project cost and support. I have received that
as well. 

HTH,

- Kirti Deshpande 
  Verizon Information Services
   http://www.superpages.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Boivin, Patrice J [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:47 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  OT -- training
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
> employer provide you with in the last couple of years?
> 
> "real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
> CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff
> like
> little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.
> 
> Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
> during your job interview?
> 
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> 
> Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> Technology Services| Services technologiques
> Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
> Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> 
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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Re: OT -- training

[Bill Gentry]

Other than my initial Oracle training in 1999 [31 days], I have been getting
5 days in 2000 & 5 days for the current year.
HTH
---Bill


Bill Gentry
DBA
Allina Health System
Minneapolis, MN 55403
612-775-1190
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:46 AM


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

--
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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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RE: OT -- training

[Mohan, Ross]

HA HA HA HA

YEA FREAKIN RIGHT

Seven monthsno training...none scheduled."3000 dollar budget" which
is one (1)
oracle course.not great.

HA HA HA HA

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Author: Mohan, Ross
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Re: OT -- training

[Ron Rogers]

Patrice,
 There is "resistance" to any training that I feel is necessary to further my 
knowledge and/or enhance my understanding of the Oracle processes. Even though I have 
money in the budget for such items I have to submit a business case defining the gains 
to the company and after completing the course with a passing grade the company will 
reimburse me the expenses for the course only. I also have to sign a waver that I will 
pay the company back the full cost of the course if I leave their employment before 
365 days. Needless to say I pay for everything myself and hope to write it off on 
taxes if they ever get the bill signed into law.
ROR mª¿ªm 

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/01 11:46AM >>>
Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

--
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--
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Author: Ron Rogers
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RE: OT -- training

[Weaver, Walt]

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:47 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

"real" is in quotes, I don't mean the little 1 - 3 day seminars given by
CareerTrack and other "training" companies, or management-related stuff like
little MBA-flavoured certificates from universities.

Oh, and did the amount of training you received match what you were told
during your job interview?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
Technology Services| Services technologiques
Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique 
Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO

E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Re: OT -- training

[Thater, William]

"Boivin, Patrice J" wrote:
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many days / weeks of real training did your
> employer provide you with in the last couple of years?

a week at IOUG, and no i was promised 2 conferences and a week's worth
of "formal" training a year. 

--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
Telergy,Inc.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

One ping to rule them all,
One ping to find them,
One ping to bring them all,
And in the MUTX bind them.

You know it is going to be a bad day when you forget your new password.
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