Re: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650

2002-11-15 Thread chao_ping
Stephen Lee,
To tell you the truth, sun 4500 is the most high end sun i have ever 
touched:), so i do not have experience on concept like partition etc.
And talking about that excellent High Avaliable feature like 
CPU/Memory corruption and the server still run,that is really something great. And i 
did not know it before.And i think it is impossible to implement on that kind of low 
end Dell PC servers, but for servers like V880, that is also something impossible i 
think, right? We cannot compare a product whose value is 1M$ with products whose value 
is 10K$:).  After all, intel is still on middle-low end.
Thanks for your valueable knowledge, thanks.






Regards
zhu chao
Eachnet DBA
86-21-32174588-667
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.happyit.net
www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group)

=== 2002-11-15 08:00:00 ,you wrote£º===

 -Original Message-
  So, what is the advantage of Sun? Redhat Advanced
 server and 920 is also so much stable, and Sun T3 disk array
 is also of poor performance. CPU poor, disk array not that
 good, why sun?
  
--

One thing I noticed is that you were using an older Sun.  The current Suns
have CPU's more than twice as fast as what you are using.  It would be
interesting to see the results using a new Sun rather than an old one.  I
have always thought the Dell PowerEdge series was an excellent value.  But I
have always appreciated the very well thought-out design of the Sun machines
and the overall excellent package of solid hardware, very stable OS, and
excellent customer service that Sun provides.

Some capabilities of the Sun -- which might or might not exist on the Dell
(I don't know) -- are the ability to partition the machine into domains
and dynamically move resources between the domains.  The Sun will run OK
with a bad memory module or bad CPU's.  As long as the Sun has one working
CPU, it will run.  I haven't done sys admin work for a while, but in the
past, Sun provided a utility called Symon that displayed a detailed picture
of the system boards and, if there was a problem with a component, would
show you which component had failed.  Whether these features are of any
value to you depends on you.  One other point in favor of the Sun is that
Sun is excellent at maintaining backward compatibility in releases of its
OS.  You could, in fact, take a ten year old Sparc IPC, install Solaris on
it, and use it as a web server or file server.  Almost every old (in
computer terms) Sun shop has those old lunch box (not pizza boxes) Sun's
hanging around, still perfectly usable.  Something I doubt could be said
about a 10 year old Intel box.

As I have mentioned in a previous post, the SunSolve CD is an excellent
resource.  One is tempted say worth its weight in gold, but it is actually
worth more than that.

As far as the preoccupation with which box can produce the best benchmark:
In my personal philosophy, either a box is fast enough to run the
application for which it is intended, or it is not.  After that point those
less tangible qualities, such as those listed about, do count and should be
considered.

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Author: chao_ping
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RE: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650

2002-11-15 Thread Stephen Lee


 -Original Message-
   And talking about that excellent High Avaliable 
 feature like CPU/Memory corruption and the server still 
 run

Maybe I should clarify.  If you lose a memory module, the box will almost
certainly reboot itself and come back up with the memory module taken
offline.  You can't suddenly have a chunk of memory disappear from the OS
and the OS continue as if nothing happened.  I think the same thing is true
for sudden CPU failure.

What I have actually seen, with my own eyes, was a situation where a Sparc
4000 was put under a table and between two other computers where the flow of
air through the 4000 was blocked.  The box had 6 CPU's, as it began to
overheat, it shutdown 4 of the CPU's.  One could run the Symon tool on a
remote box and see the CPU's in the color red on the pictures of the system
boards.

On the low end of servers, the mainline Unix vendors (such as Sun) have
chosen not to jump into the middle of the vicious competition there.  But as
you move to larger servers, I think you see that the boxes from vendors such
as Sun become more and more competitve as the server size increases.  So,
no, my first choice for a 2-CPU box would probably not be a Sun.  I haven't
checked prices for a few months now, but the last time I checked, an 8-CPU
Sun was fully competitive in pricing with an equivalent 8-Xeon Dell.  Of
course, pricing changes constantly so my info could be out of date now.
And, when I checked pricing on the web sites, I was assuming that you could
still count on a 20% discount off list price from a Sun reseller, since that
was always the case in the past.  Also, in the past, if you spent $1M in a
year, you could buy directly from Sun for a 30% discount.  I don't know if
those discounts still work that way today.

One thing is for sure: There is certainly a lot to consider!
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RE: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650

2002-11-15 Thread Jesse, Rich
Actually, I know that IBM has some boxes with redundant (RAIDed -- their
term) memory, although I don't know which class of machine.

Rich


Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

 -Original Message-
 From: Stephen Lee [mailto:slee;dollar.com]
 Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:55 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: RE: surprising result:8CPU Sun 3500 VS 4CPU Dell 6650
 
 
  -Original Message-
  And talking about that excellent High Avaliable 
  feature like CPU/Memory corruption and the server still 
  run
 
 Maybe I should clarify.  If you lose a memory module, the box 
 will almost
 certainly reboot itself and come back up with the memory module taken
 offline.  You can't suddenly have a chunk of memory disappear 
 from the OS
 and the OS continue as if nothing happened.  I think the same 
 thing is true
 for sudden CPU failure.

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jesse, Rich
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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