RE: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
We have security requirements that do not allow remote administration. There has been some discussion of vpn (for two or three years!) but it is likely that vpn will be for the execs to get their mail rather than database administration. Unfortunately, it is likely a security issue to discuss this any further. Remote administration does not work in all cases even when it is technologically possible. --- Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have a (kind of) unwritten rule ... Unix admins and db admins *must* be within shouting distance within each other. We do not prefer remote (limited to your home or hotel) admin unless you got paged in the middle of the night. Raj __ Rajendra JamadagniMIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! ***1 This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify ESPN at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you. ***1 = Pete Barnett Lead Database Administrator The Regence Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Peter Barnett INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
Hello everyone, This is a very interesting thread. Speaking as a part-owner of one of the companies John held up as an example of the successful outsourcers (thanks for mentioning us John), I'd like to make some points that I think will be of interest to all. The first is that working in a shop such as Pythian is actually a dream come true for many DBAs. The fact that the industry is trending to a managed service model for database administration is NOT A BAD thing for salaried DBAs out there. I think the opposite is true. The same thing happened for payroll specialists in the 80s and 90s, and now some 40% of companies outsource payroll. Those payroll specialist jobs simply migrated from individuals working solo in firms into working in teams for the Ceridians, Paychex and myriad competitors (i.e. almost every bank too) of the world. It's a great transition for many reasons that work well for the DBA as well as for the customer. I'll concentrate on the advantages for the DBA (why DBAs love working here), because they might not be as obvious. I can't speak for our competitors (hi!!! just kidding) :-) , but I believe a similar dynamic applies to them. A Pythian DBA gets experience on every major platform Oracle runs on: Solaris, HP/UX, Tru64, AIX, Linux, Win2k, I'm sure I'm forgetting some. A Pythian DBA gets experience on many versions of Oracle, in many industries simulaneously. We get to learn and develop best practices learned by seeing the way Oracle is used in many shops. We get to work in teams, relying on each other to help in emergencies, unstall each other, teach each other and develop each other's skills, and make sure we put our best foot forward for any customer simply because as a team we have an enormous amount of skills and experience. We get to learn and teach the very best in the industry, getting to know and understand that even the giants don't know everything while still having so much to share. We get to know our customers so well we mutually consider ourselves teammates, co-workers and sometimes even friends, greatly leveraging our network of contacts and friendships. We get to take on new shops on a continuous basis, whenever the company signs on a new customer, instead of having to quit a job when it gets boring. The way I've structured our company, in many small teams, we even get to take on completely new challenges and team dynamics simply by changing teams, rather than having to look elsewhere. We get to not be on-call every night, to not get shit for taking holidays, to not have to work insane hours (our team model is scalable in a way that the single-person salaried model is not.) We get to work on some of the most challenging environments in the world. I'm not kidding; I'm sure Jeremiah at Amazon has his hands full, but I am confident any DBA here would have something to talk with him about if they sat together at a dining-room table. Moreover, we get the satisfaction of doing an extraordinarily good job. I considered myself an accomplished DBA before having started this company. And yet I am completely certain that never was I able to do as good a job as we are doing now as a team. We provide sophisticated problem tracking tools, availability monitoring tools and and performance monitoring tools that never when I was an individual could I have contributed. It's extremely satisfying and fun. Moreover, much of our work is with DBAs (or teams of DBAs!) at customer sites. We work with many shops where we are not the sole DBA resource, but rather a part of a larger team, sometimes with us doing mentoring, back-up and on-call support for a DBA early in their career. Sometimes, it's when a company has an (or many) expert DBA that's completely swamped, and we help with the 24/7 and routine but lengthy aspects of the work and let them focus on the project management, strategic data modeling and other tasks that are more than enough to keep them on the right side of the very busy/having a breakdown boundary. I can't recommend it enough; I haven't had a better job or been happier at work than I am here. Hope this give you some insight into our company and what we're trying to do here. Best regards, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:53 AM Personally I like being in the office environment and interacting with other members of my species :-) I do get the opportunity to work from home on a fairly regular basis and I do take it when I really need to focus on something but I do miss the buzz of being in the workplace if I'm away for too long. Working from home is ideal around the holidays and those days when you have overindulged in
RE: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
Get out the BS bingo cards.. ;o) -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Rocheste Hello everyone, This is a very interesting thread. Speaking as a part-owner of one of the companies John held up as an example of the successful outsourcers (thanks for mentioning us John), I'd like to make some points that I think will be of interest to all. The first is that working in a shop such as Pythian is actually a dream come true for many DBAs. The fact that the industry is trending to a managed service model for database administration is NOT A BAD thing for salaried DBAs out there. I think the opposite is true. The same thing happened for payroll specialists in the 80s and 90s, and now some 40% of companies outsource payroll. Those payroll specialist jobs simply migrated from individuals working solo in firms into working in teams for the Ceridians, Paychex and myriad competitors (i.e. almost every bank too) of the world. It's a great transition for many reasons that work well for the DBA as well as for the customer. I'll concentrate on the advantages for the DBA (why DBAs love working here), because they might not be as obvious. I can't speak for our competitors (hi!!! just kidding) :-) , but I believe a similar dynamic applies to them. A Pythian DBA gets experience on every major platform Oracle runs on: Solaris, HP/UX, Tru64, AIX, Linux, Win2k, I'm sure I'm forgetting some. A Pythian DBA gets experience on many versions of Oracle, in many industries simulaneously. We get to learn and develop best practices learned by seeing the way Oracle is used in many shops. We get to work in teams, relying on each other to help in emergencies, unstall each other, teach each other and develop each other's skills, and make sure we put our best foot forward for any customer simply because as a team we have an enormous amount of skills and experience. We get to learn and teach the very best in the industry, getting to know and understand that even the giants don't know everything while still having so much to share. We get to know our customers so well we mutually consider ourselves teammates, co-workers and sometimes even friends, greatly leveraging our network of contacts and friendships. We get to take on new shops on a continuous basis, whenever the company signs on a new customer, instead of having to quit a job when it gets boring. The way I've structured our company, in many small teams, we even get to take on completely new challenges and team dynamics simply by changing teams, rather than having to look elsewhere. We get to not be on-call every night, to not get shit for taking holidays, to not have to work insane hours (our team model is scalable in a way that the single-person salaried model is not.) We get to work on some of the most challenging environments in the world. I'm not kidding; I'm sure Jeremiah at Amazon has his hands full, but I am confident any DBA here would have something to talk with him about if they sat together at a dining-room table. Moreover, we get the satisfaction of doing an extraordinarily good job. I considered myself an accomplished DBA before having started this company. And yet I am completely certain that never was I able to do as good a job as we are doing now as a team. We provide sophisticated problem tracking tools, availability monitoring tools and and performance monitoring tools that never when I was an individual could I have contributed. It's extremely satisfying and fun. Moreover, much of our work is with DBAs (or teams of DBAs!) at customer sites. We work with many shops where we are not the sole DBA resource, but rather a part of a larger team, sometimes with us doing mentoring, back-up and on-call support for a DBA early in their career. Sometimes, it's when a company has an (or many) expert DBA that's completely swamped, and we help with the 24/7 and routine but lengthy aspects of the work and let them focus on the project management, strategic data modeling and other tasks that are more than enough to keep them on the right side of the very busy/having a breakdown boundary. I can't recommend it enough; I haven't had a better job or been happier at work than I am here. Hope this give you some insight into our company and what we're trying to do here. Best regards, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 2:53 AM Personally I like being in the office environment and interacting with other members of my species :-) I do get the opportunity to work from home on a fairly regular basis and I do take it when I really need to focus on something but
Re: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
The fact that the industry is trending to a managed service model for database administration is NOT A BAD thing for salaried DBAs out there. I think the opposite is true. So, let us all second the Oracle sales pitch about them managing our databases for us, and hope to sneak into Oracle ;-) And if I cant manage that, my Oracle stocks will feed me ;-) Raj Paul Vallee dbalist@pythTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] ian.com cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in root@fatcity.Rocheste com March 26, 2002 01:08 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Hello everyone, This is a very interesting thread. Speaking as a part-owner of one of the companies John held up as an example of the successful outsourcers (thanks for mentioning us John), I'd like to make some points that I think will be of interest to all. The first is that working in a shop such as Pythian is actually a dream come true for many DBAs. The fact that the industry is trending to a managed service model for database administration is NOT A BAD thing for salaried DBAs out there. I think the opposite is true. The same thing happened for payroll specialists in the 80s and 90s, and now some 40% of companies outsource payroll. Those payroll specialist jobs simply migrated from individuals working solo in firms into working in teams for the Ceridians, Paychex and myriad competitors (i.e. almost every bank too) of the world. It's a great transition for many reasons that work well for the DBA as well as for the customer. I'll concentrate on the advantages for the DBA (why DBAs love working here), because they might not be as obvious. I can't speak for our competitors (hi!!! just kidding) :-) , but I believe a similar dynamic applies to them. A Pythian DBA gets experience on every major platform Oracle runs on: Solaris, HP/UX, Tru64, AIX, Linux, Win2k, I'm sure I'm forgetting some. A Pythian DBA gets experience on many versions of Oracle, in many industries simulaneously. We get to learn and develop best practices learned by seeing the way Oracle is used in many shops. We get to work in teams, relying on each other to help in emergencies, unstall each other, teach each other and develop each other's skills, and make sure we put our best foot forward for any customer simply because as a team we have an enormous amount of skills and experience. We get to learn and teach the very best in the industry, getting to know and understand that even the giants don't know everything while still having so much to share. We get to know our customers so well we mutually consider ourselves teammates, co-workers and sometimes even friends, greatly leveraging our network of contacts and friendships. We get to take on new shops on a continuous basis, whenever the company signs on a new customer, instead of having to quit a job when it gets boring. The way I've structured our company, in many small teams, we even get to take on completely new challenges and team dynamics simply by changing teams, rather than having to look elsewhere. We get to not be on-call every night, to not get shit for taking holidays, to not have to work insane hours (our team model is scalable in a way that the single-person salaried model is not.) We get to work on some of the most challenging environments in the world. I'm not
Re: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
Hey Dave... I counted - outsource - trending - managed service - leveraging - best practices - continuous basis - strategic but I'm sure I missed some... does this mean I win? :-) Cheers! Paul - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:59 PM Get out the BS bingo cards.. ;o) -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Rocheste Hello everyone, This is a very interesting thread. Speaking as a part-owner of one of the companies John held up as an example of the successful outsourcers (thanks for mentioning us John), I'd like to make some points that I think will be of interest to all. The first is that working in a shop such as Pythian is actually a dream come true for many DBAs. The fact that the industry is trending to a managed service model for database administration is NOT A BAD thing for salaried DBAs out there. I think the opposite is true. The same thing happened for payroll specialists in the 80s and 90s, and now some 40% of companies outsource payroll. Those payroll specialist jobs simply migrated from individuals working solo in firms into working in teams for the Ceridians, Paychex and myriad competitors (i.e. almost every bank too) of the world. It's a great transition for many reasons that work well for the DBA as well as for the customer. I'll concentrate on the advantages for the DBA (why DBAs love working here), because they might not be as obvious. I can't speak for our competitors (hi!!! just kidding) :-) , but I believe a similar dynamic applies to them. A Pythian DBA gets experience on every major platform Oracle runs on: Solaris, HP/UX, Tru64, AIX, Linux, Win2k, I'm sure I'm forgetting some. A Pythian DBA gets experience on many versions of Oracle, in many industries simulaneously. We get to learn and develop best practices learned by seeing the way Oracle is used in many shops. We get to work in teams, relying on each other to help in emergencies, unstall each other, teach each other and develop each other's skills, and make sure we put our best foot forward for any customer simply because as a team we have an enormous amount of skills and experience. We get to learn and teach the very best in the industry, getting to know and understand that even the giants don't know everything while still having so much to share. We get to know our customers so well we mutually consider ourselves teammates, co-workers and sometimes even friends, greatly leveraging our network of contacts and friendships. We get to take on new shops on a continuous basis, whenever the company signs on a new customer, instead of having to quit a job when it gets boring. The way I've structured our company, in many small teams, we even get to take on completely new challenges and team dynamics simply by changing teams, rather than having to look elsewhere. We get to not be on-call every night, to not get shit for taking holidays, to not have to work insane hours (our team model is scalable in a way that the single-person salaried model is not.) We get to work on some of the most challenging environments in the world. I'm not kidding; I'm sure Jeremiah at Amazon has his hands full, but I am confident any DBA here would have something to talk with him about if they sat together at a dining-room table. Moreover, we get the satisfaction of doing an extraordinarily good job. I considered myself an accomplished DBA before having started this company. And yet I am completely certain that never was I able to do as good a job as we are doing now as a team. We provide sophisticated problem tracking tools, availability monitoring tools and and performance monitoring tools that never when I was an individual could I have contributed. It's extremely satisfying and fun. Moreover, much of our work is with DBAs (or teams of DBAs!) at customer sites. We work with many shops where we are not the sole DBA resource, but rather a part of a larger team, sometimes with us doing mentoring, back-up and on-call support for a DBA early in their career. Sometimes, it's when a company has an (or many) expert DBA that's completely swamped, and we help with the 24/7 and routine but lengthy aspects of the work and let them focus on the project management, strategic data modeling and other tasks that are more than enough to keep them on the right side of the very busy/having a breakdown boundary. I can't recommend it enough; I haven't had a better job or been happier at work than I am here. Hope this give you some insight into our company and what we're trying to do here. Best regards, Paul --- www.pythian.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 877-PYTHIAN Smarter than adding another team member, Pythian has new services for supplementing DBAs: get our help with monitoring, 24x7 on-call, daily verifications, storage management, performance and more. - Original Message - To:
RE: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
We have a (kind of) unwritten rule ... Unix admins and db admins *must* be within shouting distance within each other. We do not prefer remote (limited to your home or hotel) admin unless you got paged in the middle of the night. Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! ***1 This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify ESPN at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you. ***1
RE: Remote or Not? Was: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rocheste
Personally I like being in the office environment and interacting with other members of my species :-) I do get the opportunity to work from home on a fairly regular basis and I do take it when I really need to focus on something but I do miss the buzz of being in the workplace if I'm away for too long. Working from home is ideal around the holidays and those days when you have overindulged in whatever your favourite tipple is the night before and driving into work would be too risky :-) FWIW - there are two DBAs in this country (UK) working for our company and we live about 300 miles apart. I work from the Data Centre, with the UNIX SAs and the hardware in the North East of England, he works from an office in London with the developers. It works well (esp. for me !!) and we meet up on a regular basis for status meetings and catch ups. Regards Lee -Original Message- Sent: 25 March 2002 23:08 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Rocheste Hi all, Thanks Chris for that nicely worded e-mail. It *is* true that Development work is easier to farm off elsewhere where it is cheaper, and even Oracle Corporation is farming out Internet-based Support and Development work elsewhere. These teams typically work with a bunch of junior developers somewhere else working on the major chunk of the project, fronted by one or two 'implementors' - typically senior and more 'culturally aware' locally working with the users/businesses they serve. This Development model does lend itself to such offloading. However, I haven't heard of similar farming out of day-to-day DBA or SA services *outside* of the US. These services are perceived as 'Business critical' jobs still and Management wants to see/hear the key-clicks, esp. when a Disaster occurs or something goes wrong. Steve Orr - the one who escaped this $$$ valley for the wide open spaces he loves - made the point that Remote working is more an organizational issue than a technical issue. Face-to-face and human touch-and-feel still is still required, and time zones are still an issue (even here in the States where the West and the East is separated by just 3 hours). Having said that, I have to say that I am in the process of wrapping up a 'remote' performance troubleshooting mini-project for a previous client. VPNs, Previous association and familiarity with systems/personnel and the requirement of out-of-the-ordinary skills for a limited period drove this remote assignment, and it worked out successfully. I did suffer from the 3 hour timezone difference, though it worked to our advantages at times. I do also know that many DBAs have been 'farmed-out' to 'Remote DBA Services' within the country (counting Canada too - Pythian, TUSC, ...), and a number of cross-country tuning assignments (from Australia - need I say more!) have also worked out well. On a personal front, I observe that (at least in the US) the urban/suburban cost-of-living is driving more and more remote workers (quite a number of IT workers, esp. DBAs) into the extended suburbia (100 miles or more, up from the current 50 mile radius), where these workers do come in once or twice a week, sometimes to 'branch offices' spread out among the various suburbs Hence, you could theoretically work as a DBA in a city somewhere else for an organization with HQs/DBs somewhere else, as long as you have access/presence of a remote office, and possibly fly down to the HQ once in a while. Remote workers still need to be in a community, with access to education, recreation and health servcies, so this will probably not be too far off the beaten path. On another tack, there was a discussion on this list about Ari's cool tools - the PocketDBA/SA. I could theoretically be far away in a log cabin (Steve - are you listening?!) and still be connected to the office - the question is: Do you want to be? In other words, most tools for full remote capability are available. But would Damagement accept them and not have to see a warm body fill a seat? John Kanagaraj -Original Message- From: Grabowy, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 12:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Production Oracle DBA Needed in Rochester, Minnesota Ahhh...be careful what you ask for. If that were truly the case, then you might not be able to find a job, since you would be outbid from someone working else where. Obviously, skills are a critical factor, but explain that to the bean counters... Some of the developers here are becoming very angry because some of the work has been farmed-out overseas because of their lower rates. It is a very interesting situation that I am quietly observing. The world is indeed becoming smaller. I have carefully worded this email in the hopes that I do not offend some of the VERY talented/god-like DBAs we have on this list that come a variety of locations around this great planet. I hope that I have
