Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Quoting a woman broke the social mores of her time is sexist? " I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" -Dorothy Parker "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ate.vt.us> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/08/01 07:35 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Now we are getting a bit sexist...better watch it or I'll tell your Mothers and/or Wives. RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:02 AM > Eric, > > When challenged (at a party), to use to word > 'horticulture' correctly in a sentence, > Dorethy Parker immediately replied' > > "You can lead a horticulture, but > you can't make her think" > > > > > didn't some famous person such as Mae West say > > "you can lead a horse to water, > > but not a horticulture." ??? > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Eric D. Pierce > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I was trying to be tounge in cheek but it doesn't come over very will with email. I thought it was funny too. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:17 PM > Dorothy Parker was the ultimate feminist. She lived her life as she pleased, > was the only female member of the Algonquin Club (a writers group in NY) and > a wonderful satirist. > > That is an exact quote -- how is that sexist? > > > > >From: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 06:35:23 -0800 > > > >Now we are getting a bit sexist...better watch it or I'll tell your Mothers > >and/or Wives. > > > >RBG > >- Original Message - > >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:02 AM > > > > > > > Eric, > > > > > > When challenged (at a party), to use to word > > > 'horticulture' correctly in a sentence, > > > Dorethy Parker immediately replied' > > > > > > "You can lead a horticulture, but > > > you can't make her think" > > > > > > > > > > > didn't some famous person such as Mae West say > > > > "you can lead a horse to water, > > > > but not a horticulture." ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > > -- > > > > Author: Eric D. Pierce > > > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > >-- > >Author: Ruth Gramolini > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Rachel Carmichael > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Dorothy Parker was the ultimate feminist. She lived her life as she pleased, was the only female member of the Algonquin Club (a writers group in NY) and a wonderful satirist. That is an exact quote -- how is that sexist? >From: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 06:35:23 -0800 > >Now we are getting a bit sexist...better watch it or I'll tell your Mothers >and/or Wives. > >RBG >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:02 AM > > > > Eric, > > > > When challenged (at a party), to use to word > > 'horticulture' correctly in a sentence, > > Dorethy Parker immediately replied' > > > > "You can lead a horticulture, but > > you can't make her think" > > > > > > > > didn't some famous person such as Mae West say > > > "you can lead a horse to water, > > > but not a horticulture." ??? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > > -- > > > Author: Eric D. Pierce > > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Ruth Gramolini > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
HAHAHAH, Yeah but they was very funny!!! -Original Message- Gramolini Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Now we are getting a bit sexist...better watch it or I'll tell your Mothers and/or Wives. RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:02 AM > Eric, > > When challenged (at a party), to use to word > 'horticulture' correctly in a sentence, > Dorethy Parker immediately replied' > > "You can lead a horticulture, but > you can't make her think" > > > > > didn't some famous person such as Mae West say > > "you can lead a horse to water, > > but not a horticulture." ??? > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Eric D. Pierce > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Now we are getting a bit sexist...better watch it or I'll tell your Mothers and/or Wives. RBG - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:02 AM > Eric, > > When challenged (at a party), to use to word > 'horticulture' correctly in a sentence, > Dorethy Parker immediately replied' > > "You can lead a horticulture, but > you can't make her think" > > > > > didn't some famous person such as Mae West say > > "you can lead a horse to water, > > but not a horticulture." ??? > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Eric D. Pierce > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Title: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? Eric, When challenged (at a party), to use to word 'horticulture' correctly in a sentence, Dorethy Parker immediately replied' "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think" > > didn't some famous person such as Mae West say > "you can lead a horse to water, > but not a horticulture." ??? > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Eric D. Pierce > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Speaking of beer. My husband had his IQ tested AFTER he discovered beer and whiskey. A few years later he gave up the stuff and his IQ went up remarkably. Perhaps IQ is just a measure of sobreity ? ;-) - Babette - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:22 AM > M...beer > I think your sort of bringing up that whole nature nurture issue, good lord > that's a tough one. I would tend to agree that a person could have a high > IQ, or a high ability to learn, but if they are not in an environment that > promotes learning then they may not fullfill their abilities. On the other > hand, someone in an environement that doesn't promote learning could still > take upon themselves to educate themselves. > (and don't knock any spelling errors, I am well aware of the fact that I > can't spell!) > KK > > -Original Message- > Walt > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:00 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I thought IQ was related to the culture one grows up in, not something > you're born with. > > In other words, if you're white and raised in a middle/upper-class > environment your chance at doing well on an IQ test are orders of magnitude > greater than for other people. > > I, of course, did very well on an IQ test when I was a teenager. Then I > discovered beer and, well, things have gone, um, a bit downhill since then. > > --Walt Weaver > Bozeman, Montana, USA > > -Original Message- > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:49 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Yes, people are "born" with IQ, not smarts. > > I also believe you can alter your IQ slightly. > > From what I understand (which may be wrong) is IQ is simply how many gallon > tank you were blessed with. > It does not measure how much you filled this tank. > > "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way > when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > > Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > Oracle DBA > Phone: (978) 322-5744 > Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > Fuelspot > 73 Princeton Street > North, Chelmsford 01863 > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Weaver, Walt > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Babette Turner-Underwood INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
[via oracle-l digest] -- > From: Henry Poras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:44:26 -0400 > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? ... > E are you out there? A lot of people seem to think so! ep didn't some famous person such as Mae West say "you can lead a horse to water, but not a horticulture." ??? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
[via oracle-l digest] -- > From: "Rachel Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:22:47 + > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > ... My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT > for the life of me learn physics That is because you don't hate the humanities, or at least not enough. :) > or data communications. You need a wearable computer to do that. ep -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
With reference to the postings about quick learning and all that, I remembered a story: There was a Talmudist - no job and no money. His wife confronted him. It bothered her that she alone was worrying about their situation and he didn't seem concerned at all. "Not true", he says, "I just worry faster than you. What you worry in a day, I worry in a few seconds." Chaim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
[via oracle-l digest] -- From: "Farnsworth, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:01:42 -0500 Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > Most people have a nerd stigma when thry think about physicists, > but as a group, physicists are some of the more humble and nice > group of people who tend to have a great love for their work. Just be careful with them, they all secretly, sometimes overtly, hate the humanities. regards, ep (former fertilizer salesman who got an honorary Ph.Dirt for being out standing in my field one day) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
M...beer I think your sort of bringing up that whole nature nurture issue, good lord that's a tough one. I would tend to agree that a person could have a high IQ, or a high ability to learn, but if they are not in an environment that promotes learning then they may not fullfill their abilities. On the other hand, someone in an environement that doesn't promote learning could still take upon themselves to educate themselves. (and don't knock any spelling errors, I am well aware of the fact that I can't spell!) KK -Original Message- Walt Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I thought IQ was related to the culture one grows up in, not something you're born with. In other words, if you're white and raised in a middle/upper-class environment your chance at doing well on an IQ test are orders of magnitude greater than for other people. I, of course, did very well on an IQ test when I was a teenager. Then I discovered beer and, well, things have gone, um, a bit downhill since then. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yes, people are "born" with IQ, not smarts. I also believe you can alter your IQ slightly. >From what I understand (which may be wrong) is IQ is simply how many gallon tank you were blessed with. It does not measure how much you filled this tank. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Kostyszyn INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I thought IQ was related to the culture one grows up in, not something you're born with. In other words, if you're white and raised in a middle/upper-class environment your chance at doing well on an IQ test are orders of magnitude greater than for other people. I, of course, did very well on an IQ test when I was a teenager. Then I discovered beer and, well, things have gone, um, a bit downhill since then. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yes, people are "born" with IQ, not smarts. I also believe you can alter your IQ slightly. >From what I understand (which may be wrong) is IQ is simply how many gallon tank you were blessed with. It does not measure how much you filled this tank. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I stand by what I had said earlier, I think you've done a great job Mark. There is nothing wrong with being good at many things and not yet an expert at something, especially at the age of 22. I think I am more of a jack of all trades and not yet an expert on anything. When I started here about three years ago I thought I knew stuff about computers, but it turns out I really didn't know anything. Now I build my own PC's and PC's for my friends and family. It doesn't bother me to have all of this knowledge floating around. You know, my father has been Sr VP of several company's and held other executive postitions and one of the main reasongs that he is looked upon in his industry so well is because he started from the bottom and worked his way to the top. When he comes up with an engineering idea it usually isn't questioned because he could implement it himself if he wanted too. Oops, starting to ramble, anyway, keep up the good work!! KK -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 6:21 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, thanks for the vote of confidence there Christopher! :) I will start off by saying - I am *not* a DBA, though I am fully aware of all that the job entails what with selling performance, tuning and management tools to you guys on a daily basis. I am *trained* to do the job - and have done a hell of a lot of reading and testing and playing.. The one thing I will say is that you guys - the DBAs - are for the most part not very impressed by our type of company when the sales critter that calls you (me) does not know what they are talking to you about. With this in mind I have made it my job to learn as much as I can - both in and out of work hours - to be just as much up to speed on the databases we deal with as you - the DBAs. I could competently look after an Oracle or SQLServer database if thrown in the deep end (though I may not be a performance expert like Kirti or Gaja) or have written a book on any subject that I have chosen to learn - or in fact published my IQ to people around the world :) The same goes with HTML & JAVA programming - I'm no "expert" but can certainly hold my own! By the way I finally published our new site over the weekend www.cool-tools.co.uk, and included your very own site in our links section, the site was FULLY done by myself. I don't claim to be an expert - and I don't think that I did in my original posting - but then I don't usually run to an "expert" for him to fix a problem that I'm having (though I have on the odd occasion turned to the list for advice:) ) I usually just sink my teeth in to a manual or online, test, play and learn on my own two feet. Being 22 I think I have pretty a good head start - and hey If you didn't know what I did @ 22, and your only 26 I should be a GURU by the time I reach your age? Jealous? :) Cheers Mark -Original Message- Spence Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 05:57 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you c
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Well, thanks for the vote of confidence there Christopher! :) I will start off by saying - I am *not* a DBA, though I am fully aware of all that the job entails what with selling performance, tuning and management tools to you guys on a daily basis. I am *trained* to do the job - and have done a hell of a lot of reading and testing and playing.. The one thing I will say is that you guys - the DBAs - are for the most part not very impressed by our type of company when the sales critter that calls you (me) does not know what they are talking to you about. With this in mind I have made it my job to learn as much as I can - both in and out of work hours - to be just as much up to speed on the databases we deal with as you - the DBAs. I could competently look after an Oracle or SQLServer database if thrown in the deep end (though I may not be a performance expert like Kirti or Gaja) or have written a book on any subject that I have chosen to learn - or in fact published my IQ to people around the world :) The same goes with HTML & JAVA programming - I'm no "expert" but can certainly hold my own! By the way I finally published our new site over the weekend www.cool-tools.co.uk, and included your very own site in our links section, the site was FULLY done by myself. I don't claim to be an expert - and I don't think that I did in my original posting - but then I don't usually run to an "expert" for him to fix a problem that I'm having (though I have on the odd occasion turned to the list for advice:) ) I usually just sink my teeth in to a manual or online, test, play and learn on my own two feet. Being 22 I think I have pretty a good head start - and hey If you didn't know what I did @ 22, and your only 26 I should be a GURU by the time I reach your age? Jealous? :) Cheers Mark -Original Message- Spence Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 05:57 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > under > my >
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
yep, I learned that lesson years ago when I joined. I expected interesting, stimulating conversation. I got kids quarrelling. I've always figured if you have brains and/or talent, you usually don't need to brag about it. If you have to brag, you have a self-esteem problem. >From: Paul Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:10:42 -0800 > >Spot on, Rachel! I misguidedly joined Mensa several years ago, and let my >membership lapse after a year or two, when it became clear the level of >debate was as you describe. The overbearing aura of smugness in most of the >magazine articles, and most members' inability to LISTEN at meetings just >became too irritating. Mensa's really the Society for people who both have >high IQs AND want everyone to know it! > > >Paul Vincent >Database Administrator, University of Central England > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 06 August 2001 20:24 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > > > > > oh I don't know... I can't tell you how many Mensa members > > I've met whose > > level of verbal sparring is "did not" "did too" "did not" > > "your mama wears > > army boots" > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Paul Vincent > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Spot on, Rachel! I misguidedly joined Mensa several years ago, and let my membership lapse after a year or two, when it became clear the level of debate was as you describe. The overbearing aura of smugness in most of the magazine articles, and most members' inability to LISTEN at meetings just became too irritating. Mensa's really the Society for people who both have high IQs AND want everyone to know it! Paul Vincent Database Administrator, University of Central England > -Original Message- > From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 06 August 2001 20:24 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > > oh I don't know... I can't tell you how many Mensa members > I've met whose > level of verbal sparring is "did not" "did too" "did not" > "your mama wears > army boots" > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Paul Vincent INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
learning is not necessarily solving problems... when I learn a poem, or learn about history,there's no problem I am solving. I was motivated to learn physics, it was an important requirement of my degree program. I could not "get it". Didn;t matter how hard I tried, it never became clear. I squeaked by with barely a passing grade. oh, and it's 'deem', not deam -- there is no such word. IQ is a biased testing in any case child who have not grown up in an environment conducive to learning tend to show lower IQ scores. It is NOT scientifically valid. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:56:01 -0800 > >I disagree. But I am speaking in a purely technical term of learning, not >factoring other things such as interest. > >That is like saying an engine is not a power plant of a vehicle because >there is a brick wall stoping it from driving away. > >I am sure if you were interested you could learn physics and communication. >Surely you may not be interested in it, but you have the ability to do so >if >you so chose. Your ability to have that ability is what I deam as IQ. > >Some people may try and try and never learn physics no matter how much they >want to. This is where I 'believe' IQ has taken it's toll. > >But I think we are saying the similar, I agree IQ is the capacity, but it >is >also what detirmines how you grasp things and how quickly you can solve >problems. Learning in my opinion is the same as solving problems. Which >is >what IQ is all about. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:24 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the >life of me learn physics or data communications. > >IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. > >and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > > > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > > > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > > > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that > >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their > >shoes." > > > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > >Oracle DBA > >Phone: (978) 322-5744 > >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > > >Fuelspot > >73 Princeton Street > >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > > > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take > >time > >to > > > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure > >that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do > > >it and do it well is another thing. > > > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back > > >into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in > > >the first place. > >
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
artistic? I think you mean autistic... which is an entirely DIFFERENT word and meaning >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:08:19 -0800 > >IQ is not common sense, it is problem solving. > >Even Einstein was considered stupid in many respects somewhat artistic. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:49 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Don't know what my IQ is, and don't care. I'll take my street smarts any >day. My wife worked with some lady who, whenever introducing herself, >always made sure she let you know she was a MENSA member. She (and just as >many "he's" out there, not to be sexist) was also the kind of person to pay >$39.99 for a blinker fluid change... > >__ >Jim Hawkins >Oracle Database Administrator >Data Management Center of Expertise > >Pharmacia Corporation >800 North Lindbergh Blvd. >St. Louis, Missouri 63167 >(314) 694-4417 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:24 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the >life of me learn physics or data communications. > >IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. > >and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > > > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > > > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > > > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that > >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their > >shoes." > > > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > >Oracle DBA > >Phone: (978) 322-5744 > >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > > >Fuelspot > >73 Princeton Street > >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > > > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take > >time > >to > > > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure > >that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do > > >it and do it well is another thing. > > > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back > > >into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in > > >the first place. > > > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, > > >not the jack of all trades. > > > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think > > >I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 > > >years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good > > >at it. I was a good system admin and
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
yep -- which is why most schools no longer use them. >From: Henry Poras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:46:14 -0800 > >But how is culture, or the observation that some people need visual vs. >verbal cues taken account of in the test? >E are you out there? > >I don't know, but I get the feeling that an IQ test is about as useful as >an >OCP exam. > >Henry > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:49 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Yes, people are "born" with IQ, not smarts. > >I also believe you can alter your IQ slightly. > >From what I understand (which may be wrong) is IQ is simply how many gallon >tank you were blessed with. >It does not measure how much you filled this tank. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:04 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >I decided to delete most of the messages to make this list shorter. > >Was any one born with "Smart/Einstein" ability without learning? > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:39 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Wong, Bing > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the >message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of >mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP >command for other information (like subscribing). >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Christopher Spence > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Henry Poras > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want t
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
But how is culture, or the observation that some people need visual vs. verbal cues taken account of in the test? E are you out there? I don't know, but I get the feeling that an IQ test is about as useful as an OCP exam. Henry -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yes, people are "born" with IQ, not smarts. I also believe you can alter your IQ slightly. >From what I understand (which may be wrong) is IQ is simply how many gallon tank you were blessed with. It does not measure how much you filled this tank. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I decided to delete most of the messages to make this list shorter. Was any one born with "Smart/Einstein" ability without learning? -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Wong, Bing INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
In South Georgia, the standard practice is to carry a disposable cup. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > -Original Message- > From: MacGregor, Ian A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't > spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate Try aiming downwards at a spittoon or a trash can instead of sending your projectiles in a horizontal trajectory. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Anderson, Brian INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
You don't know how many times I have tried to play keyboard and guitar. I just never am able to do it. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I can learn physics and other sciences without much problem, but I cannot draw a straight line and am artistically challenged. I know artistic people with an IQ in my range that are great at art or music but have problems with science. We are all different and have different abilities and likes. Just hopefully most people choose to go in their strong areas and likes. I would love to play some Bach or Jerry Lee Lewis on a piano but have not the skills. I can learn the notes but cannot make music. The only thing I can play is the stereo, and I play it well!! :) Dave -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the life of me learn physics or data communications. IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their >shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take >time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure >that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do > >it and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back > >into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in > >the first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, > >not the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think > >I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 > >years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good > >at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did > >not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was > >using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick > >where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my > >accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that > >doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to > >be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. > >I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all > >of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase > >Admin, SQL Server DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I like the first one, that's good:) KK -Original Message- Bradly A Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, Kevin: That depends on where a person ranked on Theodore Kaczynski's special list, or whether Van Gogh was drunk before he cut, or how long Virginia Woolfe could tread water. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't hurt to have a high IQ though:) -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and >do it well is another thing. > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of >all trades. > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how >I >wanted to be. > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I >know >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server >DBA, >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are >and what ya doing. > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him >why did he not try to find a better job. >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." >After >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek >the same motivation in my life. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe >we're not slackers afterall. > >Ruth >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > KK > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > > down > > for > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > > (only >6 > > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > > under > > my > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > > moving in > > to > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > >
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Yes, people are "born" with IQ, not smarts. I also believe you can alter your IQ slightly. >From what I understand (which may be wrong) is IQ is simply how many gallon tank you were blessed with. It does not measure how much you filled this tank. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I decided to delete most of the messages to make this list shorter. Was any one born with "Smart/Einstein" ability without learning? -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Wong, Bing INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I can learn physics and other sciences without much problem, but I cannot draw a straight line and am artistically challenged. I know artistic people with an IQ in my range that are great at art or music but have problems with science. We are all different and have different abilities and likes. Just hopefully most people choose to go in their strong areas and likes. I would love to play some Bach or Jerry Lee Lewis on a piano but have not the skills. I can learn the notes but cannot make music. The only thing I can play is the stereo, and I play it well!! :) Dave -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the life of me learn physics or data communications. IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it > >and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into > >something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the > >first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not > >the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I > >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years > >ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. > >I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the > >luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I > >generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know > >it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know > >more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad > >generalization was not how I wanted to be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I > >know > >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was > >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server > >DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you >are > >and what ya doing. > > > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked > >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I > >am the best street sweeper there ever was." > >After > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek > >the same motivation in my life. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that > >way when you criticize them, y
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I disagree. But I am speaking in a purely technical term of learning, not factoring other things such as interest. That is like saying an engine is not a power plant of a vehicle because there is a brick wall stoping it from driving away. I am sure if you were interested you could learn physics and communication. Surely you may not be interested in it, but you have the ability to do so if you so chose. Your ability to have that ability is what I deam as IQ. Some people may try and try and never learn physics no matter how much they want to. This is where I 'believe' IQ has taken it's toll. But I think we are saying the similar, I agree IQ is the capacity, but it is also what detirmines how you grasp things and how quickly you can solve problems. Learning in my opinion is the same as solving problems. Which is what IQ is all about. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the life of me learn physics or data communications. IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their >shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take >time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure >that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do > >it and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back > >into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in > >the first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, > >not the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think > >I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 > >years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good > >at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did > >not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was > >using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick > >where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my > >accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that > >doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to > >be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. > >I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all > >of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase > >Admin, SQL Server DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time fr
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Well, Kevin: That depends on where a person ranked on Theodore Kaczynski's special list, or whether Van Gogh was drunk before he cut, or how long Virginia Woolfe could tread water. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't hurt to have a high IQ though:) -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and >do it well is another thing. > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of >all trades. > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how >I >wanted to be. > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I >know >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server >DBA, >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are >and what ya doing. > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him >why did he not try to find a better job. >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." >After >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek >the same motivation in my life. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe >we're not slackers afterall. > >Ruth >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > KK > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > > down > > for > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > > (only >6 > > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > > under > > my > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > > moving in > > to > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Lee - lerobe > > >
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
IQ is not common sense, it is problem solving. Even Einstein was considered stupid in many respects somewhat artistic. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don't know what my IQ is, and don't care. I'll take my street smarts any day. My wife worked with some lady who, whenever introducing herself, always made sure she let you know she was a MENSA member. She (and just as many "he's" out there, not to be sexist) was also the kind of person to pay $39.99 for a blinker fluid change... __ Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator Data Management Center of Expertise Pharmacia Corporation 800 North Lindbergh Blvd. St. Louis, Missouri 63167 (314) 694-4417 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the life of me learn physics or data communications. IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their >shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take >time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure >that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do > >it and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back > >into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in > >the first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, > >not the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think > >I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 > >years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good > >at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did > >not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was > >using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick > >where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my > >accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that > >doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to > >be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. > >I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all > >of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase > >Admin, SQL Server DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
It doesn't hurt to eat bananas either, but what does that have to do with anything? An addendum to Ian's comment. The only time I ever came across physics doctorates using the title 'Doctor' were medical physicists working in a hospital. I got the feeling they needed to compete with the medical doctors. Henry -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:34 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Doesn't hurt to have a high IQ though:) -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and >do it well is another thing. > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of >all trades. > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how >I >wanted to be. > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I >know >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server >DBA, >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are >and what ya doing. > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him >why did he not try to find a better job. >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." >After >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek >the same motivation in my life. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe >we're not slackers afterall. > >Ruth >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > KK > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > > down > > for > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > > (only >6 > > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > > under > > my > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > > moving in > > to > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > >
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
oh I don't know... I can't tell you how many Mensa members I've met whose level of verbal sparring is "did not" "did too" "did not" "your mama wears army boots" >From: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:33:32 -0800 > >Doesn't hurt to have a high IQ though:) > >-Original Message- >Carmichael >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it >and > >do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same > >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into >something > >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really > >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack >of > >all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I > >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago > >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was >a > >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of > >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally >can > >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was >not > >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I > >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not >how > >I > >wanted to be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I > >know > >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was > >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server > >DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you >are > >and what ya doing. > > > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him > >why did he not try to find a better job. > >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." > >After > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek > >the same motivation in my life. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that >way > >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > > > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > >Oracle DBA > >Phone: (978) 322-5744 > >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > > >Fuelspot > >73 Princeton Street > >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. >Maybe > >we're not slackers afterall. > > > >Ruth > >- Original Message - > >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > > KK > > > - Original Message - > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > > > Out of curiosity how ol
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Don't know what my IQ is, and don't care. I'll take my street smarts any day. My wife worked with some lady who, whenever introducing herself, always made sure she let you know she was a MENSA member. She (and just as many "he's" out there, not to be sexist) was also the kind of person to pay $39.99 for a blinker fluid change... __ Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator Data Management Center of Expertise Pharmacia Corporation 800 North Lindbergh Blvd. St. Louis, Missouri 63167 (314) 694-4417 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the life of me learn physics or data communications. IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it > >and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into > >something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the > >first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not > >the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I > >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years > >ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. > >I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the > >luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I > >generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know > >it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know > >more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad > >generalization was not how I wanted to be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I > >know > >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was > >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server > >DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you >are > >and what ya doing. > > > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked > >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I > >am the best street sweeper there ever was." > >After > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek > >the same motivation in my life. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that > >way when you
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
HAHAH:) -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L oh I don't know... I can't tell you how many Mensa members I've met whose level of verbal sparring is "did not" "did too" "did not" "your mama wears army boots" >From: "Kevin Kostyszyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:33:32 -0800 > >Doesn't hurt to have a high IQ though:) > >-Original Message- >Carmichael >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it >and > >do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same > >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into >something > >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really > >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack >of > >all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I > >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago > >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was >a > >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of > >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally >can > >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was >not > >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I > >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not >how > >I > >wanted to be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I > >know > >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was > >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server > >DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you >are > >and what ya doing. > > > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him > >why did he not try to find a better job. > >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." > >After > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek > >the same motivation in my life. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that >way > >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > > > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > >Oracle DBA > >Phone: (978) 322-5744 > >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > > >Fuelspot > >73 Princeton Street > >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. >Maybe > >we're not slackers afterall. > > > >Ruth > >- Original Message - > >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > > KK > > > - Original Message - > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > >
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
depends on what you are learning. My IQ is not low, yet I CANNOT for the life of me learn physics or data communications. IQ may be part of it. INTEREST in the subject is part too. and IQ is not ability to learn, but capacity to learn. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it > >and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into > >something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the > >first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not > >the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I > >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years > >ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. > >I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the > >luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I > >generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know > >it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know > >more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad > >generalization was not how I wanted to be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I > >know > >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was > >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server > >DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you >are > >and what ya doing. > > > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked > >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I > >am the best street sweeper there ever was." > >After > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek > >the same motivation in my life. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that > >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their > >shoes." > > > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > >Oracle DBA > >Phone: (978) 322-5744 > >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > > >Fuelspot > >73 Princeton Street > >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. > >Maybe we're not slackers afterall. > > > >Ruth > >- Original Message - &g
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Ian: As U.G. Krishnamurti offers, the "I" is a tricky illusion projected by our wetware. I suppose the distance from the projector to the screen is related to the size of the illusion; I have noticed that my illusion has decreased tremendously in my ancient age. Nothing is grander than waking up in the morning to another sunrise. Definitely a greater treasure than Albert's photoelectric Nobel, and he would probably prefer the former. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Big Brain: There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate; we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have a couple Nobel laureates. I doubt any of them knows their IQ. If they did they wouldn't boast about it. Did you really talk to that street sweeper? I've heard that story several times, and always thought it was apocryphal. To hear from the one who actually did is astounding. You are a prolific poster and a very knowledgeable DBA. Your posts have doubtless helped a great many people. We suspect you are very good. You don't have to tell us. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:57 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > under > my > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > moving in > to > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > -Original Message- > > Lee - lerobe > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while > evaluating > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how > > young > he > > a
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I was lucky enough to hang around with Glenn Seaborg at Lawrence RL in 1964 for a day when the cyclotron was open for repairs. We actually walked inside it( I just knew I'd die of leukemia the very next day!). He told me that after he prepared to the best of his abilities for an experiment, he would place his hands on that thick yellow glass window as the accelerator was warming up and start praying. The last equation for him was prayer, not brains. Memorable event. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L >-we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have >-a couple Nobel laureates. Ian, know what you mean. I have not spent any time at your facility but have at major universities that have sposored projects at places like the University of Chicago, Oak Ridge, Fermi and Argonne national labs. Most people have a nerd stigma when thry think about physicists, but as a group, physicists are some of the more humble and nice group of people who tend to have a great love for their work. I once in a while have thought about getting back into the nuke work but would then be limited on where I can live. I am quite happy with being the "country DBA". Dave -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Big Brain: There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate; we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have a couple Nobel laureates. I doubt any of them knows their IQ. If they did they wouldn't boast about it. Did you really talk to that street sweeper? I've heard that story several times, and always thought it was apocryphal. To hear from the one who actually did is astounding. You are a prolific poster and a very knowledgeable DBA. Your posts have doubtless helped a great many people. We suspect you are very good. You don't have to tell us. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:57 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out o
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
oops -- capability to learn >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:39:27 -0800 > >IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. > >IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. > >Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? > >some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time >to > >process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that >what they are saying is accurate before they speak. > > > >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > > > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. > >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it > >and do it well is another thing. > > > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the > >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into > >something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the > >first place. > > > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t > >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not > >the jack of all trades. > > > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I > >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years > >ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. > >I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the > >luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I > >generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know > >it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know > >more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad > >generalization was not how I wanted to be. > > > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I > >know > >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was > >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server > >DBA, > >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very > >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. > >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you >are > >and what ya doing. > > > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked > >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I > >am the best street sweeper there ever was." > >After > >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek > >the same motivation in my life. > > > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that > >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their > >shoes." > > > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA > >Oracle DBA > >Phone: (978) 322-5744 > >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > > > >Fuelspot > >73 Princeton Street > >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. > >Maybe we're not slackers afterall. > > > >Ruth > >- Original Message - > >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > > K
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Your delete didnt help my message count, was it supposed to? joe >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/01 03:04PM >>>I decided to delete most of the messages to make this list shorter.Was any one born with "Smart/Einstein" ability without learning?-Original Message-Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:39 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LIQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn.IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are.Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn."Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that waywhen you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes."Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNAOracle DBAPhone: (978) 322-5744Fax: (707) 885-2275Fuelspot73 Princeton StreetNorth, Chelmsford 01863-Original Message-Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-Lsince when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn?some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time toprocess what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak.-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: Wong, Bing INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
>-we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have >-a couple Nobel laureates. Ian, know what you mean. I have not spent any time at your facility but have at major universities that have sposored projects at places like the University of Chicago, Oak Ridge, Fermi and Argonne national labs. Most people have a nerd stigma when thry think about physicists, but as a group, physicists are some of the more humble and nice group of people who tend to have a great love for their work. I once in a while have thought about getting back into the nuke work but would then be limited on where I can live. I am quite happy with being the "country DBA". Dave -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Big Brain: There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate; we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have a couple Nobel laureates. I doubt any of them knows their IQ. If they did they wouldn't boast about it. Did you really talk to that street sweeper? I've heard that story several times, and always thought it was apocryphal. To hear from the one who actually did is astounding. You are a prolific poster and a very knowledgeable DBA. Your posts have doubtless helped a great many people. We suspect you are very good. You don't have to tell us. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:57 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > under > my > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > moving in > to > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > -Original Message- > > Lee - lerobe > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 20
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I decided to delete most of the messages to make this list shorter. Was any one born with "Smart/Einstein" ability without learning? -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Wong, Bing INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Title: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > -Original Message- > From: MacGregor, Ian A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't > spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate Try aiming downwards at a spittoon or a trash can instead of sending your projectiles in a horizontal trajectory.
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
IQ from what I understand is COMPLETELY related to how fast you learn. IQ is your ability to learn, nothing to do with how "Smart" you are. Smart is how much you know, nothing to do with how you learn. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it >and do it well is another thing. > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the >same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into >something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the >first place. > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t >really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not >the jack of all trades. > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years >ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. >I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the >luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I >generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know >it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know >more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad >generalization was not how I wanted to be. > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I >know >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server >DBA, >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are >and what ya doing. > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked >him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I >am the best street sweeper there ever was." >After >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek >the same motivation in my life. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that >way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their >shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. >Maybe we're not slackers afterall. > >Ruth >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > KK > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually > > > turned down > > for > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > > (only >6 > > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > > under > > my > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > > moving in > > to > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 ye
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
It was figurative to prove my point. I as well have heard the street sweeper story, and reiterated it merely to make a point. I think my (not sarcastic, but slightly off look at it) was not taken as I meant it. I was speaking (sort of) sarcastic. I sometimes think so off the wall that my analogies are taking completely wrong. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Big Brain: There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate; we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have a couple Nobel laureates. I doubt any of them knows their IQ. If they did they wouldn't boast about it. Did you really talk to that street sweeper? I've heard that story several times, and always thought it was apocryphal. To hear from the one who actually did is astounding. You are a prolific poster and a very knowledgeable DBA. Your posts have doubtless helped a great many people. We suspect you are very good. You don't have to tell us. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:57 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > under > my > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > moving in > to > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > -Original Message- > > Lee - lerobe > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > To: Multiple recipients of li
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Doesn't hurt to have a high IQ though:) -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and >do it well is another thing. > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of >all trades. > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how >I >wanted to be. > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I >know >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server >DBA, >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are >and what ya doing. > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him >why did he not try to find a better job. >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." >After >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek >the same motivation in my life. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe >we're not slackers afterall. > >Ruth >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > KK > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > > down > > for > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > > (only >6 > > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > > under > > my > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > > moving in > > to > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Lee - lerobe > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while > > evaluating > > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exac
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Big Brain: There are about 1200 permanent employees here. You can't spit without hitting someone with a physics doctorate; we have so many that the "Doctor" honorific is not used, and we have a couple Nobel laureates. I doubt any of them knows their IQ. If they did they wouldn't boast about it. Did you really talk to that street sweeper? I've heard that story several times, and always thought it was apocryphal. To hear from the one who actually did is astounding. You are a prolific poster and a very knowledgeable DBA. Your posts have doubtless helped a great many people. We suspect you are very good. You don't have to tell us. Ian MacGregor Stanford Linear Accelerator Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:57 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > under > my > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > moving in > to > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > -Original Message- > > Lee - lerobe > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while > evaluating > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how > > young > he > > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i launch > > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after > > dropping > out > > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me for > > a > couple > > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for > > about > 7-8 > > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use Ingres, > > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and Informix(DBA). > > Now purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every minut
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
since when did IQ have any relation to how fast you learn? some of the most brilliant people I know are slow thinkers, who take time to process what they are learning and take even more time to make sure that what they are saying is accurate before they speak. >From: Christopher Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:56:32 -0800 > >I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. >Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and >do it well is another thing. > >Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same >thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something >else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. > >There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really >hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of >all trades. > >I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I >still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago >and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a >good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of >REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can >figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not >comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I >could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how >I >wanted to be. > >With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I >know >for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was >claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server >DBA, >JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very >comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. >True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are >and what ya doing. > >I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him >why did he not try to find a better job. >His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." >After >saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek >the same motivation in my life. > >"Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way >when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." > >Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA >Oracle DBA >Phone: (978) 322-5744 >Fax:(707) 885-2275 > >Fuelspot >73 Princeton Street >North, Chelmsford 01863 > > > > >-Original Message- >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe >we're not slackers afterall. > >Ruth >- Original Message - >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > > > > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > > KK > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > > down > > for > > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > > (only >6 > > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > > under > > my > > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > > moving in > > to > > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Lee - lerobe > > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while > > evaluating > > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how > > > young > > he > > > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i >launch &g
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Although I am young, I highly agree with your comments. I think a big factor in what makes someone good is not what they have used and how long, but their attitude. Although there are MANY and MANY people of all ages in this industry, there are only a few who have the attitude that is needed to actually be considered good. /* If discrimination exists, it's because kids will work 24 hours a day for next to nothing. Benefits? Well who cares? The boss springs for pizza every Friday!! Remember why you got into this industry to begin with? 'Cause you thought it was really neat. And if worse came to worse, and you were out on the street for whatever reason, would you be willing to give up a few bucks and work a few extra hours? And what if you got to work with some really cool new product in exchange? I know I would!! Once again it's all about attitude, and if you are able to communicate an enthusiasm for your trade, I think that means more than what it says on the calendar. */ "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I would be curious of HOW WELL he knows those things. Anyone can learn most of everything out there, but to be able to do it and do it well is another thing. Also when you go so many directions like that, you never work on the same thing for long, which means you need to be able to jump back into something else VERY quickly or there is no sense learning it in the first place. There is one thing as being good at many things, but when the sh%t really hits the fan, you call someone that knows what their doing, not the jack of all trades. I being 26, I found myself becoming a jack of all trades, and I think I still am. I did not like that, so I picked up Oracle about 3.5 years ago and decided I am going to take one thing, and be damn good at it. I was a good system admin and adapted very well. But I did not get the luxery of REALLY knowing everything about what I was using. Although I generally can figure things out extremely quick where it appears I know it. "I!" was not comfortable with my accomplishments, I wanted to know more and more. I could not do that doing what I was doing, broad generalization was not how I wanted to be. With an iq of 147, I think I can be considered a very quick learner. I know for a fact that 4 years ago when I was 22, I could not do all of what was claimed in previous email by Mark (Oracle DBA, Sybase Admin, SQL Server DBA, JAVA, HTML) and consider myself great at it. Although you can be very comfortable with them, comfort can be obtained in very short time frames. True talent to play as an allstar takes years, no matter how smart you are and what ya doing. I once met a street sweeper who was going on to 50 years old, I asked him why did he not try to find a better job. His answer was "Because I am the best street sweeper there ever was." After saying that, I had a new found respect for him and was detirmined to seek the same motivation in my life. "Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes." Christopher R. Spence OCP MCSE MCP A+ RAPTOR CNA Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:17 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned > > down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW > > (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming > > under > my > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently > > moving in > to > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > -Original Message- > > Lee - lerobe > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while > evaluating > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how > > young > he > > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i launch > > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after > > dropping > out > > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me for > > a > couple > > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for > > about > 7-8 > > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use Ingres, > > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and Informix(DBA). > > Now purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every minute of it - > > Honest. > > > > Big future Mark - best of luck !! > > > > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!) > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Ahh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was still > drinking > > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :) > > > > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software sales > > on Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have a hell of > > a head start working with computers due to my "old man" also being > > in software/hardware sales since I can remember - he also started > > out as a computer operator on an IBM 360 mainframe? I actually > > started my working life as an anodiser of all things - an ageing > > pro
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
And I'm a child - with a two and a half year old daughter.. Interesting.. Mark -Original Message- Gramolini Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 03:51 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L By that chart, I'm in the nursing home drooling on my keyboard. But I feel so young Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:15 PM -6 month old? congratulations on the soon to be arrival :) if 34 = teen then late 20's = pre-teen/adolescent early 20's = child and I am ready for the old age home :) >From: "Anderson, Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:17:11 -0800 > >I'm 34 with a 10 and 11 year old, and recently a -6 month old, and I >sure feel old sometimes. > >But in this discussion, I guess I'm a teen. > >BLA > > > -Original Message- > > From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:47 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > > > > > I don't want you to feel to old, but at last count I have 5 > > sons and 20 grandchildren. Grandchildren range from 16mo to > > 16 years old. Birthdays and Christmas are expensive. > > ROR mª¿ªm > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/03/01 11:40AM >>> > > Actually this whole thread is making me feel a whole lot better !!!. > > > > I am 37 and was a bit concerned as to the age of many of the > > people on this > > list (thinking I may be a lot older than most) I'm glad I appear to be > > mistaken.. It seems strange but all the DBAs I know in this > > country as well > > are in their 30s or older. All the younger guys I know want > > to be Software > > Engineers (JAVA etc) and HTML people, they all see the > > DBA/S.A arena as > > something that takes too long to learn well and therefore not > > worth it. > > Maybe there is a future after all :-)) > > > > Lee > > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Ron Rogers > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Anderson, Brian > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
By that chart, I'm in the nursing home drooling on my keyboard. But I feel so young Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:15 PM -6 month old? congratulations on the soon to be arrival :) if 34 = teen then late 20's = pre-teen/adolescent early 20's = child and I am ready for the old age home :) >From: "Anderson, Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:17:11 -0800 > >I'm 34 with a 10 and 11 year old, and recently a -6 month old, and I >sure feel old sometimes. > >But in this discussion, I guess I'm a teen. > >BLA > > > -Original Message- > > From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:47 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > > > > > I don't want you to feel to old, but at last count I have 5 > > sons and 20 grandchildren. Grandchildren range from 16mo to > > 16 years old. Birthdays and Christmas are expensive. > > ROR mª¿ªm > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/03/01 11:40AM >>> > > Actually this whole thread is making me feel a whole lot better !!!. > > > > I am 37 and was a bit concerned as to the age of many of the > > people on this > > list (thinking I may be a lot older than most) I'm glad I appear to be > > mistaken.. It seems strange but all the DBAs I know in this > > country as well > > are in their 30s or older. All the younger guys I know want > > to be Software > > Engineers (JAVA etc) and HTML people, they all see the > > DBA/S.A arena as > > something that takes too long to learn well and therefore not > > worth it. > > Maybe there is a future after all :-)) > > > > Lee > > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Ron Rogers > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Anderson, Brian > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
-6 month old? congratulations on the soon to be arrival :) if 34 = teen then late 20's = pre-teen/adolescent early 20's = child and I am ready for the old age home :) >From: "Anderson, Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? >Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:17:11 -0800 > >I'm 34 with a 10 and 11 year old, and recently a -6 month old, and I >sure feel old sometimes. > >But in this discussion, I guess I'm a teen. > >BLA > > > -Original Message- > > From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:47 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > > > > > I don't want you to feel to old, but at last count I have 5 > > sons and 20 grandchildren. Grandchildren range from 16mo to > > 16 years old. Birthdays and Christmas are expensive. > > ROR mª¿ªm > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/03/01 11:40AM >>> > > Actually this whole thread is making me feel a whole lot better !!!. > > > > I am 37 and was a bit concerned as to the age of many of the > > people on this > > list (thinking I may be a lot older than most) I'm glad I appear to be > > mistaken.. It seems strange but all the DBAs I know in this > > country as well > > are in their 30s or older. All the younger guys I know want > > to be Software > > Engineers (JAVA etc) and HTML people, they all see the > > DBA/S.A arena as > > something that takes too long to learn well and therefore not > > worth it. > > Maybe there is a future after all :-)) > > > > Lee > > > > > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > > -- > > Author: Ron Rogers > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Anderson, Brian > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
WOW, now I feel like slacker:) KK - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > Cheers Lee! > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned down for > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW (only 6 > years above the legal limit!). > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming under my > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently moving in to > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > -Original Message- > Lee - lerobe > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while evaluating > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how young he > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i launch > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after dropping out > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me for a couple > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for about 7-8 > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use Ingres, > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and Informix(DBA). Now > purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every minute of it - Honest. > > Big future Mark - best of luck !! > > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!) > > > -Original Message- > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Ahh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was still drinking > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :) > > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software sales on > Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have a hell of a head > start working with computers due to my "old man" also being in > software/hardware sales since I can remember - he also started out as a > computer operator on an IBM 360 mainframe? I actually started my working > life as an anodiser of all things - an ageing process for aluminium for > those that don't know, where by you treat the aluminium in vats of sulphuric > acid, and caustic soda all heated with electricity running through.. Did it > manually too with big rubber gloves, boots and apron! I much prefer tapping > my keyboard I can tell ya! > > Roll on the new wave of technology! VR here we come! And a great big hand to > the "oldies" for making the computer industry what it is now! > > Mark (One from the young camp) > > > -Original Message- > Kanagaraj > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:14 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Paul, > > I want to echo your sentiment. Now that I am approaching 40 and feeling > dinosaurish, it is nice to know that a large number of dinosaurs (or > 'OraSaurus' as Don puts it) still exist. > > Btw, I keep hearing of Age discrimination in the IT industry. Reading > through these notes, is it fair to say that this is less true among DBAs? > > As far me, started out in 79 in college with IBM 1620/Fortran and > punched-card Input/Output trays (used to be able to read Hollerith code once > upon a time!). Progressed to Cobol in my first job in 84 and later to > XENIX/UNIX, and teaching the User *never* to use 'ior i' to 'startup' the V5 > database... > > John Kanagaraj > Oracle Applications DBA > DB Soft Inc > Work : (408) 970 7002 > > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at > http://www.klove.com > > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine > and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** > > >-Original Message- > >From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:35 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > >Subject: computer history stories > > > > > >I just want to thank everyone whose stories indicate that they > >are at least > >middle-aged--for a while (especially at my last job where the > >average age > >was about 25), I'd been feeling as though I was the last > >over-40 tech-head > >left on the East Coast. > > > >Now, as long as I'm posting, my "how-I-got-started" story: > > > >I majored in liberal arts and worked as a real-estate property > >manager for > >about 5 years. Encouraged by programmer friends, I took some > >classes, in > >Fortran, Intro. to Computer Logic, and DG MV/8000 assembly > >language. My > >first job, in 1981, was as an assembly language programmer, > >but not for the > >MV/8000; rather, writing firmware for the Intel 8085. I > >couldn't believe > >how primitive it seemed after programming for the then-state-of-the-art > >MV/8000. The experience, though, of working from hardware > >schematics and > >Intel data books was invaluable. You really know how a > >computer works when > >you
Re: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
But Kevin, having all under his belt doesn't mean he's ever used it. Maybe we're not slackers afterall. Ruth - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:15 AM > WOW, now I feel like slacker:) > KK > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > > > > Cheers Lee! > > > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned down > for > > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW (only 6 > > years above the legal limit!). > > > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming under > my > > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently moving in > to > > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > > > -Original Message- > > Lee - lerobe > > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while > evaluating > > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how young > he > > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i launch > > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after dropping > out > > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me for a > couple > > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for about > 7-8 > > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use Ingres, > > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and Informix(DBA). Now > > purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every minute of it - Honest. > > > > Big future Mark - best of luck !! > > > > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!) > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Ahh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was still > drinking > > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :) > > > > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software sales on > > Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have a hell of a head > > start working with computers due to my "old man" also being in > > software/hardware sales since I can remember - he also started out as a > > computer operator on an IBM 360 mainframe? I actually started my working > > life as an anodiser of all things - an ageing process for aluminium for > > those that don't know, where by you treat the aluminium in vats of > sulphuric > > acid, and caustic soda all heated with electricity running through.. Did > it > > manually too with big rubber gloves, boots and apron! I much prefer > tapping > > my keyboard I can tell ya! > > > > Roll on the new wave of technology! VR here we come! And a great big hand > to > > the "oldies" for making the computer industry what it is now! > > > > Mark (One from the young camp) > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Kanagaraj > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:14 > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Paul, > > > > I want to echo your sentiment. Now that I am approaching 40 and feeling > > dinosaurish, it is nice to know that a large number of dinosaurs (or > > 'OraSaurus' as Don puts it) still exist. > > > > Btw, I keep hearing of Age discrimination in the IT industry. Reading > > through these notes, is it fair to say that this is less true among DBAs? > > > > As far me, started out in 79 in college with IBM 1620/Fortran and > > punched-card Input/Output trays (used to be able to read Hollerith code > once > > upon a time!). Progressed to Cobol in my first job in 84 and later to > > XENIX/UNIX, and teaching the User *never* to use 'ior i' to 'startup' the > V5 > > database... > > > > John Kanagaraj > > Oracle Applications DBA > > DB Soft Inc > > Work : (408) 970 7002 > > > > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at > > http://www.klove.com > > > > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine > > and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** > > > > >-Original Message- > > >From: Paul Baumgartel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:35 PM > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > >Subject: computer history stories > > > > > > > > >I just want to thank everyone whose stories indicate that they > > >are at least > > >middle-aged--for a while (especially at my last job where the > > >average age > > >was about 25), I'd been feeling as though I was the last > > >over-40 tech-head > > >left on the East Coast. > > > > > >Now, as long as I'm posting, my "how-I-got-started" story: > > > > > >I majored in liberal arts and worked as a real-estate property > > >manager for > > >about 5 years. Encouraged by programmer friends, I too
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
Title: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? okay fellow geezershaven't you adopted the "I'm only 29" phrase yet? It also gets you alot of 30th birthday parties where you can continue to claim 29, just have to change jobs alot. Jon -Original Message- From: Farnsworth, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? It's when you get carded when you are 40 that you have really accomplished something!! Some young girl about my daughters age did that to me last week when I went to purchase my favorite adult beverage. I should have left her a tip. Dave -Original Message- Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L WOW, now I feel like slacker:) KK - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:51 AM > Cheers Lee! > > Out of curiosity how old did you think I was? I was actually turned down for > cigarettes a few months back!! I couldn't believe it!! I'm 22 BTW (only 6 > years above the legal limit!). > > Already got Oracle Admin, SQLServer admin, HTML & JAVA programming under my > belt - with a little Sybase ASE around the edges and currently moving in to > the DB2 world!! Not bad for 4 years of intensive reading a playing.. > > My next step is to sink my teeth in to UNIX.. > > -Original Message- > Lee - lerobe > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:01 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > After having firstly talking to Mark at length on the phone while evaluating > some of his products, I was extremely surprised to see exactly how young he > actually was (or at least looked !!)when I met him at the Oracle 9i launch > at Oracle UK. As for me, a late starter in 1990 on Cobol after dropping out > of studying law in 81, to join a band (dad wouldn't speak to me for a couple > of months but later became one of our biggest fans !!)and play for about 7-8 > years, reasonably successful but no Gold Disks :-). Went on to use Ingres, > Unix and C (development and DBA/S.A, then Oracle and Informix(DBA). Now > purely on Oracle as a DBA and loving every minute of it - Honest. > > Big future Mark - best of luck !! > > Lee (hobbling his way into the old school - agewise anyway !!) > > > -Original Message- > Sent: 03 August 2001 11:06 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Ahh 79, I remember those good old days.. Back then I was still drinking > milk out of a bottle on a pink sand beach in Bermuda :) > > I actually started in the IT industry directly in to software sales on > Oracle/Sybase tools 4 years ago now - though I did have a hell of a head > start working with computers due to my "old man" also being in > software/hardware sales since I can remember - he also started out as a > computer operator on an IBM 360 mainframe? I actually started my working > life as an anodiser of all things - an ageing process for aluminium for > those that don't know, where by you treat the aluminium in vats of sulphuric > acid, and caustic soda all heated with electricity running through.. Did it > manually too with big rubber gloves, boots and apron! I much prefer tapping > my keyboard I can tell ya! > > Roll on the new wave of technology! VR here we come! And a great big hand to > the "oldies" for making the computer industry what it is now! > > Mark (One from the young camp) > > > -Original Message- > Kanagaraj > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:14 > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Paul, > > I want to echo your sentiment. Now that I am approaching 40 and feeling > dinosaurish, it is nice to know that a large number of dinosaurs (or > 'OraSaurus' as Don puts it) still exist. > > Btw, I keep hearing of Age discrimination in the IT industry. Reading > through these notes, is it fair to say that this is less true among DBAs? > > As far me, started out in 79 in college with IBM 1620/Fortran and > punched-card Input/Output trays (used to be able to read Hollerith code once > upon a time!). Progressed to Cobol in my first job in 84 and later to > XENIX/UNIX, and teaching the User *never* to use 'ior i' to 'startup' the V5 > database... > > John Kanagaraj > Oracle Applications DBA > DB Soft Inc > Work : (408) 970 7002 > > Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at > http://www.klove.com > > ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine > and do not reflect those of my employ
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I'm 34 with a 10 and 11 year old, and recently a -6 month old, and I sure feel old sometimes. But in this discussion, I guess I'm a teen. BLA > -Original Message- > From: Ron Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:47 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination? > > > I don't want you to feel to old, but at last count I have 5 > sons and 20 grandchildren. Grandchildren range from 16mo to > 16 years old. Birthdays and Christmas are expensive. > ROR mª¿ªm > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/03/01 11:40AM >>> > Actually this whole thread is making me feel a whole lot better !!!. > > I am 37 and was a bit concerned as to the age of many of the > people on this > list (thinking I may be a lot older than most) I'm glad I appear to be > mistaken.. It seems strange but all the DBAs I know in this > country as well > are in their 30s or older. All the younger guys I know want > to be Software > Engineers (JAVA etc) and HTML people, they all see the > DBA/S.A arena as > something that takes too long to learn well and therefore not > worth it. > Maybe there is a future after all :-)) > > Lee > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com > -- > Author: Ron Rogers > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Anderson, Brian INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: computer history stories - Now: Age discrimination?
I don't want you to feel to old, but at last count I have 5 sons and 20 grandchildren. Grandchildren range from 16mo to 16 years old. Birthdays and Christmas are expensive. ROR mª¿ªm >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/03/01 11:40AM >>> Actually this whole thread is making me feel a whole lot better !!!. I am 37 and was a bit concerned as to the age of many of the people on this list (thinking I may be a lot older than most) I'm glad I appear to be mistaken.. It seems strange but all the DBAs I know in this country as well are in their 30s or older. All the younger guys I know want to be Software Engineers (JAVA etc) and HTML people, they all see the DBA/S.A arena as something that takes too long to learn well and therefore not worth it. Maybe there is a future after all :-)) Lee -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
