Re: quest SharePlex

2003-01-22 Thread Jonathan Lewis

Nick,

Thanks for the notes.
I've often wondered how Shareplex
did its thing.


Just for kicks - have you tried writing
a collision handler for streams ?

Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
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-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 22 January 2003 18:09


>Would the same thing work if you shut down the
>Shareplex processes after the row had chained,
>and restarted them before you updated the chained
>piece ?
>-- Yes
>
>And does Shareplex guarantee that it will
>never report a 1555 error regardless of how long it
>is shut down ?
>-- No, if there are massive amounts of transactions, we can still
blow
>rollback segments, nothing will happen to the source DB instance, but
it
>will effect replication.  Part of the implementation goes through
checking
>the RBS to make sure that we can handle the volume and the amount of
>activity you are generating.  We have had customers who have shut
down
>SharePlex for 2-3 hours, and when it comes up, replicates everything
during
>those 2-3 hours just fine...  even if it has been moved into the
archive
>logs.
>
>yes, the supplemental logging is not the greatest thing Oracle ever
did, but
>it was probably one of the easiest ways to implement it.   Just for
kicks...
>do a couple small batch jobs (maybe 2-3 million row changes) and see
how
>long it takes, and how much redo it generates.  Then do the same
thing with
>Streams replicating that job...  how long does it take, and how much
redo is
>generated.   Streams uses the supplemental logging, and their capture
>process reads from the redo logs, then puts the transaction right
back into
>the database (in Advanced Queues) which generates more logs, then
they
>dequeue the operation (generating more logs again) to post it to the
target
>machine.
>
>
>


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RE: quest SharePlex

2003-01-22 Thread Nick Wagner
Title: RE: quest SharePlex





Would the same thing work if you shut down the
Shareplex processes after the row had chained,
and restarted them before you updated the chained
piece ? 
-- Yes


And does Shareplex guarantee that it will
never report a 1555 error regardless of how long it
is shut down ?
-- No, if there are massive amounts of transactions, we can still blow rollback segments, nothing will happen to the source DB instance, but it will effect replication.  Part of the implementation goes through checking the RBS to make sure that we can handle the volume and the amount of activity you are generating.  We have had customers who have shut down SharePlex for 2-3 hours, and when it comes up, replicates everything during those 2-3 hours just fine...  even if it has been moved into the archive logs.  

yes, the supplemental logging is not the greatest thing Oracle ever did, but it was probably one of the easiest ways to implement it.   Just for kicks...  do a couple small batch jobs (maybe 2-3 million row changes) and see how long it takes, and how much redo it generates.  Then do the same thing with Streams replicating that job...  how long does it take, and how much redo is generated.   Streams uses the supplemental logging, and their capture process reads from the redo logs, then puts the transaction right back into the database (in Advanced Queues) which generates more logs, then they dequeue the operation (generating more logs again) to post it to the target machine.   




-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: quest SharePlex




Very cute - this tends to suggest that Shareplex is
spotting the appearance of chains in the log and
storing the list of rowids.


Would the same thing work if you shut down the
Shareplex processes after the row had chained,
and restarted them before you updated the chained
piece ?  And does Shareplex guarantee that it will
never report a 1555 error regardless of how long it
is shut down ?


Your comment about supplemental logging is
interesting - to me, one of the issues with using
the official method for logical standby is that you
have to have supplemental logging switched on
at the database level. This means, as you have
obviously spotted, that tables without primary
keys get whole rows copied into the log. Worse
still, because supplemental logging is effected
through the UNDO, global temporary tables have
an extra impact on the stream too.



Regards


Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk


Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )


Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )


England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August



The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html






-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 21 January 2003 19:01



>This is actually part of the 'magic' of SharePlex.  The way we obtain
the PK
>information from the database if the PK was not modified is very
tricky.
>
>1) shutdown SharePlex (stop all processes on the source machine, so
>SharePlex is not even up and running)
>2) insert a row.
>3) update that row to cause chaining.
>4) update the row again in the chained piece and don't modify the PK.
>5) delete the row
>6) start SharePlex back up.
>
>Did everything replicate successfully?  Yep.  :)
>




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Re: quest SharePlex

2003-01-22 Thread Jonathan Lewis

Very cute - this tends to suggest that Shareplex is
spotting the appearance of chains in the log and
storing the list of rowids.

Would the same thing work if you shut down the
Shareplex processes after the row had chained,
and restarted them before you updated the chained
piece ?  And does Shareplex guarantee that it will
never report a 1555 error regardless of how long it
is shut down ?

Your comment about supplemental logging is
interesting - to me, one of the issues with using
the official method for logical standby is that you
have to have supplemental logging switched on
at the database level. This means, as you have
obviously spotted, that tables without primary
keys get whole rows copied into the log. Worse
still, because supplemental logging is effected
through the UNDO, global temporary tables have
an extra impact on the stream too.


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 21 January 2003 19:01


>This is actually part of the 'magic' of SharePlex.  The way we obtain
the PK
>information from the database if the PK was not modified is very
tricky.
>
>1) shutdown SharePlex (stop all processes on the source machine, so
>SharePlex is not even up and running)
>2) insert a row.
>3) update that row to cause chaining.
>4) update the row again in the chained piece and don't modify the PK.
>5) delete the row
>6) start SharePlex back up.
>
>Did everything replicate successfully?  Yep.  :)
>



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jonathan Lewis
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: quest SharePlex

2003-01-21 Thread Nick Wagner
Title: RE: quest SharePlex





This is actually part of the 'magic' of SharePlex.  The way we obtain the PK information from the database if the PK was not modified is very tricky.   

I can tell you some of the 'magic' but not all of it.  (NDA type stuff)


In all updates the redo logs contain the rowid for the row being modified (or piece of row in chained row cases) and we use that rowid to go back into the database and grab the PK information.  All that is pretty simple, the real magic comes in when you do something like this... 

(QA does this type of operation all the time)


1) shutdown SharePlex (stop all processes on the source machine, so SharePlex is not even up and running)
2) insert a row.
3) update that row to cause chaining.
4) update the row again in the chained piece and don't modify the PK.  
5) delete the row
6) start SharePlex back up.  


Did everything replicate successfully?  Yep.  :)  


We've looked at turning on the supplemental logging and it causes more overhead then our quick search.  And is not really on option for large environments like Oracle Apps or other ERP's that have 1000's of tables, many of them that don't have a PK at all.  

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: quest SharePlex



Thanks for the reply.


That covers the object/data_object id problem, and gives
the ability to identify which columns in the dump are the
primary key columns.


But when you update a row, the redo will only contain the
primary key if the primary key has been modified, so you
should hardly ever find it in the redo.


Does this mean you trap the primary key on every insert
and keep a cross reference between primary keys and
rowids somewhere, or do you do a lookup back into the
database in real time to translate rowids into primary keys ?


Oracle, of course, gets around this problem in version 9
with the 'supplemental logging' feature - which Shareplex
could probably use to even better effect, but how do you
do it before 9 ?




Regards


Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk


Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )


Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )


England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August



The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html






-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 18 January 2003 01:15



>You provide a 'configuration file' which is just a flat file of table
names
>on the source machine and table names on the target machine.   Then
we go
>through an activation process that takes the table name on the source
and
>grabs the object id from Oracle and the primary key columns (if no
primary
>key, we use all the columns except for LOB's and LONGs).  Then the
capture
>process scans through the redo logs only capturing changes to object
ids in
>our list.
>



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jonathan Lewis
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: quest shareplex

2003-01-20 Thread Martin, Alan
Title: RE: quest shareplex





Has anyone used Oracle Streams for simple "A" to "B" replication? Likes/dislikes? Can it be used in 8.1.7?


Thanx,
Alan Martin
Defense Logistics Information Service
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: Khedr, Waleed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 5:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: quest shareplex



I'm sure you know Oracle has a new product "Oracle Streams" that does the
same:


http://technet.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle9i/doc_library/release2/server
.920/a96571/strmover.htm#43906


Waleed


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I'm working with a couple of IBM gals(don't you all get offended) who 
are asking about shareplex, i've not used it and have no idea whether 
its good or not(or for that matter what its purpose is).



Anyone enlighten me.


thanks, joe



Joseph S Testa
Chief Technology Officer
Data Management Consulting
p: 614-791-9000
f: 614-791-9001
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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Re: quest SharePlex

2003-01-19 Thread Jonathan Lewis
Thanks for the reply.

That covers the object/data_object id problem, and gives
the ability to identify which columns in the dump are the
primary key columns.

But when you update a row, the redo will only contain the
primary key if the primary key has been modified, so you
should hardly ever find it in the redo.

Does this mean you trap the primary key on every insert
and keep a cross reference between primary keys and
rowids somewhere, or do you do a lookup back into the
database in real time to translate rowids into primary keys ?

Oracle, of course, gets around this problem in version 9
with the 'supplemental logging' feature - which Shareplex
could probably use to even better effect, but how do you
do it before 9 ?



Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 18 January 2003 01:15


>You provide a 'configuration file' which is just a flat file of table
names
>on the source machine and table names on the target machine.   Then
we go
>through an activation process that takes the table name on the source
and
>grabs the object id from Oracle and the primary key columns (if no
primary
>key, we use all the columns except for LOB's and LONGs).  Then the
capture
>process scans through the redo logs only capturing changes to object
ids in
>our list.
>


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jonathan Lewis
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: quest SharePlex

2003-01-17 Thread Nick Wagner
Title: RE: quest SharePlex





You provide a 'configuration file' which is just a flat file of table names on the source machine and table names on the target machine.   Then we go through an activation process that takes the table name on the source and grabs the object id from Oracle and the primary key columns (if no primary key, we use all the columns except for LOB's and LONGs).  Then the capture process scans through the redo logs only capturing changes to object ids in our list.  

configuration file is pretty simple...  



source_owner.source_table target_owner.target_table [EMAIL PROTECTED]


so to replicate scott.emp to scott2.emp2 on system XYZ, with instance ORCL it would be...


scott.emp scott2.emp2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


However, it can get complicated if you want to replicate only certain columns, or only certain rows.  


-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 1:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: quest shareplex




Since the redo log contains only details about
object id, row location, and changed values , how
do you  derive a table-name and key value for
the SQL to be applied ?



Regards


Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk


Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )


Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )


England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August



The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html






-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 17 January 2003 19:25



>I was going to keep quite...  but here goes. :)
>-
>
>Yes, of course I'll be glad to help.
>
>Basically...
>
>Log Based replication for Oracle.  A capture process continually
reads the
>online redo logs and parses out information based on a list of tables
you
>provide.  The raw redo log data is then converted into standard
Oracle SQL,
>and using OCI calls is posted to target database(s).  The target(s)
are
>fully open and available, so you can do peer-to-peer, reporting,
failover,
>DR, upgrades, migrations...
>
>No SQL*Net, no Streams, no AQs, no triggers, no OAR.
>
>It's a pretty broad product,  so if you need more info, just let me
know.
>
>Nick
>



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jonathan Lewis
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: quest shareplex

2003-01-17 Thread Khedr, Waleed
I'm sure you know Oracle has a new product "Oracle Streams" that does the
same:

http://technet.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle9i/doc_library/release2/server
.920/a96571/strmover.htm#43906

Waleed

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I'm working with a couple of IBM gals(don't you all get offended) who 
are asking about shareplex, i've not used it and have no idea whether 
its good or not(or for that matter what its purpose is).


Anyone enlighten me.

thanks, joe


Joseph S Testa
Chief Technology Officer
Data Management Consulting
p: 614-791-9000
f: 614-791-9001
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Joseph S Testa
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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Re: quest shareplex

2003-01-17 Thread Jonathan Lewis

Since the redo log contains only details about
object id, row location, and changed values , how
do you  derive a table-name and key value for
the SQL to be applied ?


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23
USA_(CA, TX)_August


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 17 January 2003 19:25


>I was going to keep quite...  but here goes. :)
>-
>
>Yes, of course I'll be glad to help.
>
>Basically...
>
>Log Based replication for Oracle.  A capture process continually
reads the
>online redo logs and parses out information based on a list of tables
you
>provide.  The raw redo log data is then converted into standard
Oracle SQL,
>and using OCI calls is posted to target database(s).  The target(s)
are
>fully open and available, so you can do peer-to-peer, reporting,
failover,
>DR, upgrades, migrations...
>
>No SQL*Net, no Streams, no AQs, no triggers, no OAR.
>
>It's a pretty broad product,  so if you need more info, just let me
know.
>
>Nick
>


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jonathan Lewis
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).




RE: quest shareplex

2003-01-17 Thread Nick Wagner
Title: RE: quest shareplex





I was going to keep quite...  but here goes. :) 
-


Yes, of course I'll be glad to help.   


Basically... 


Log Based replication for Oracle.  A capture process continually reads the online redo logs and parses out information based on a list of tables you provide.  The raw redo log data is then converted into standard Oracle SQL, and using OCI calls is posted to target database(s).  The target(s) are fully open and available, so you can do peer-to-peer, reporting, failover, DR, upgrades, migrations... 

No SQL*Net, no Streams, no AQs, no triggers, no OAR.  


It's a pretty broad product,  so if you need more info, just let me know.


Nick


-Original Message-
From: Richard Ji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 9:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: quest shareplex



Quest Shareplex is a replication software.


Nick Wagner from Quest is on this list and he is been very helpful
and I am sure he will be glad to provide you info on it.  Right Nick? :)


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I'm working with a couple of IBM gals(don't you all get offended) who 
are asking about shareplex, i've not used it and have no idea whether 
its good or not(or for that matter what its purpose is).



Anyone enlighten me.


thanks, joe



Joseph S Testa
Chief Technology Officer
Data Management Consulting
p: 614-791-9000
f: 614-791-9001
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Joseph S Testa
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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RE: quest shareplex

2003-01-17 Thread Paula_Stankus
Title: RE: quest shareplex





It allows for master to master replication.  My understanding is that Oracle's Data Guard now does the same thing.  Shareplex was faster then replication with less latency because it would read from the online redo files from Oracle.  I understand that Data Guard now does the same thing.  It is a quest product and you can find more info at www.quest.com plus quest has a number of saved online webcasts and some involve shareplex.  Good luck.  Having experience with it it is somewhat of a bear to configure and work in any specific environment/database - at least in recent past versions.  

-Original Message-
From: Joseph S Testa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: quest shareplex



I'm working with a couple of IBM gals(don't you all get offended) who 
are asking about shareplex, i've not used it and have no idea whether 
its good or not(or for that matter what its purpose is).



Anyone enlighten me.


thanks, joe



Joseph S Testa
Chief Technology Officer
Data Management Consulting
p: 614-791-9000
f: 614-791-9001
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RE: quest shareplex

2003-01-17 Thread Richard Ji
Quest Shareplex is a replication software.

Nick Wagner from Quest is on this list and he is been very helpful
and I am sure he will be glad to provide you info on it.  Right Nick? :)

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I'm working with a couple of IBM gals(don't you all get offended) who 
are asking about shareplex, i've not used it and have no idea whether 
its good or not(or for that matter what its purpose is).


Anyone enlighten me.

thanks, joe


Joseph S Testa
Chief Technology Officer
Data Management Consulting
p: 614-791-9000
f: 614-791-9001
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Joseph S Testa
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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