Re: powerbuilder in rbo and multiple constraint question...
Chris, I've worked on a large Powerbuilder App for a number of years. We used CBO all the time under 7.3.2, 7.3.4 and 8.1.7. You're right Powerbuilder per se requiring RBO is rubbish. Cheers, Chris Dunscombe Quoting Chris Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm working with a 3rd party vendor to resolve some performance issues with > there call center app. The app is written in PowerBuilder. When I traced > the offending sessions, I noticed the queries are being run under the rbo. > When I run those same queries under the cbo the response time is > dramatically different. I asked why they insisted on running under the rbo. > There response was that it's a limitation of powerbuilder. I don't buy that > for a second. ...anyone know for sure? > > ..and on a side note...my company is developing a call center app in .not. > The dba's were conveniently left out of the design process. I just took a > look at the schema they are using and noticed redundant constraints on > almost every table. i.e. not null, primary key, unique on the same column. > Before I investigate myself with a 10046, does anyone know if oracle has to > do multiple recursive sql to validate each constraint or is it smart enough > to know they are redundant and only validate the pk constraint? > .when I saw this, I blasted the developers (admittedly some > misdirected aggression) for not having a clue what they were working with > and blankly stated that the redundant constraints (among other things if > found...no bind variables for one) would negatively affect performance. > ..after possibly putting my foot in my mouth I'm looking to validate what I > said. ...if I don't get any responses to this, I'll run the trace myself > and post my findings. oh yeah...the .not developers responded by saying > the redundant constraints wouldn't be a problem in sql server. ...something > I'm almost positive they haven't validated either. > > Thanks! > chris > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Chris Stephens > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > Chris Dunscombe [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Everyone should have http://www.freedom2surf.net/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: powerbuilder in rbo and multiple constraint question...
On 01/15/2004 09:54:36 AM, Chris Stephens wrote: > There response was that it's a limitation of powerbuilder. I don't buy that > for a second. ...anyone know for sure? I have slight experience with supporting Powerbuilder apps in 1996 and, later, in 1998. At that time it was completely possible to enter comments in the SQL statements. I assure you that Powerbuilder has no such limitations and that some of the wise guys in development just do not like RBO, based on magazine reading and the latest NFL results. Not a single NFL quarterback uses CBO,so why would they? > > ..and on a side note...my company is developing a call center app in .not. > The dba's were conveniently left out of the design process. Then he cannot be made responsible for the performance, either. Just sit back, put an evil grin on your face, and enjoy. >I just took a > look at the schema they are using and noticed redundant constraints on > almost every table. i.e. not null, primary key, unique on the same column. > Before I investigate myself with a 10046, does anyone know if oracle has to > do multiple recursive sql to validate each constraint or is it smart enough > to know they are redundant and only validate the pk constraint? Me thinks not, but you should test it out by doing 10046 as sys and see the recursive SQL commands. > .when I saw this, I blasted the developers (admittedly some > misdirected aggression) for not having a clue what they were working with > and blankly stated that the redundant constraints (among other things if > found...no bind variables for one) would negatively affect performance. Any arguments there or is his conviction based on the the Holy Bible and the Book of Genesis? Is your developer from Kansas? -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: powerbuilder in rbo and multiple constraint question...
Powerbuilder is a GUI. just like forms. This is what typically happens with 3rd party apps. They develop them some time in the past. Oracle adds new features, they dont want to spend the money to test to see if it works. So they tell customers not to use them. Its how they keep costs down. New development costs money. Most people buy these 3rd party applications because its cheaper than making their own. Making changes to them would cause them to have to raise prices. Which 3rd party application is that? I dont like that they lied. It would be better if they were just honest about. Becareful just analyzing the tables and letting the CBO take over. Old RBO applications can be loaded with hints that can cause problems in the CBO. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:54 AM > I'm working with a 3rd party vendor to resolve some performance issues with > there call center app. The app is written in PowerBuilder. When I traced > the offending sessions, I noticed the queries are being run under the rbo. > When I run those same queries under the cbo the response time is > dramatically different. I asked why they insisted on running under the rbo. > There response was that it's a limitation of powerbuilder. I don't buy that > for a second. ...anyone know for sure? > > ..and on a side note...my company is developing a call center app in .not. > The dba's were conveniently left out of the design process. I just took a > look at the schema they are using and noticed redundant constraints on > almost every table. i.e. not null, primary key, unique on the same column. > Before I investigate myself with a 10046, does anyone know if oracle has to > do multiple recursive sql to validate each constraint or is it smart enough > to know they are redundant and only validate the pk constraint? > .when I saw this, I blasted the developers (admittedly some > misdirected aggression) for not having a clue what they were working with > and blankly stated that the redundant constraints (among other things if > found...no bind variables for one) would negatively affect performance. > ..after possibly putting my foot in my mouth I'm looking to validate what I > said. ...if I don't get any responses to this, I'll run the trace myself > and post my findings. oh yeah...the .not developers responded by saying > the redundant constraints wouldn't be a problem in sql server. ..something > I'm almost positive they haven't validated either. > > Thanks! > chris > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Chris Stephens > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: powerbuilder in rbo and multiple constraint question...
try again... -Original Message- Chris I know from a previous assignment that PowerBuilder has no issues running queries against a database using the CBO. In fact, PowerBuilder doesn't give a rats backside what the database does to the query as long as it returns what's expected. As for "redundant" constraints, they will increase the parse time for all sql commands and slow down all DML operations -- just as they do in SQL Server. HTH Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm working with a 3rd party vendor to resolve some performance issues with there call center app. The app is written in PowerBuilder. When I traced the offending sessions, I noticed the queries are being run under the rbo. When I run those same queries under the cbo the response time is dramatically different. I asked why they insisted on running under the rbo. There response was that it's a limitation of powerbuilder. I don't buy that for a second. ...anyone know for sure? .and on a side note...my company is developing a call center app in .not. The dba's were conveniently left out of the design process. I just took a look at the schema they are using and noticed redundant constraints on almost every table. i.e. not null, primary key, unique on the same column. Before I investigate myself with a 10046, does anyone know if oracle has to do multiple recursive sql to validate each constraint or is it smart enough to know they are redundant and only validate the pk constraint? when I saw this, I blasted the developers (admittedly some misdirected aggression) for not having a clue what they were working with and blankly stated that the redundant constraints (among other things if found...no bind variables for one) would negatively affect performance. .after possibly putting my foot in my mouth I'm looking to validate what I said. ...if I don't get any responses to this, I'll run the trace myself and post my findings. oh yeah...the .not developers responded by saying the redundant constraints wouldn't be a problem in sql server. ...something I'm almost positive they haven't validated either. Thanks! chris -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Chris Stephens INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kevin Toepke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: powerbuilder in rbo and multiple constraint question...
Chris I know from a previous assignment that PowerBuilder has no issues running queries against a database using the CBO. In fact, PowerBuilder doesn't give a rats backside what the database does to the query as long as it returns what's expected. As for "redundant" constraints, they will increase the parse time for all sql commands and slow down all DML operations -- just as they do in SQL Server. HTH Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm working with a 3rd party vendor to resolve some performance issues with there call center app. The app is written in PowerBuilder. When I traced the offending sessions, I noticed the queries are being run under the rbo. When I run those same queries under the cbo the response time is dramatically different. I asked why they insisted on running under the rbo. There response was that it's a limitation of powerbuilder. I don't buy that for a second. ...anyone know for sure? .and on a side note...my company is developing a call center app in .not. The dba's were conveniently left out of the design process. I just took a look at the schema they are using and noticed redundant constraints on almost every table. i.e. not null, primary key, unique on the same column. Before I investigate myself with a 10046, does anyone know if oracle has to do multiple recursive sql to validate each constraint or is it smart enough to know they are redundant and only validate the pk constraint? when I saw this, I blasted the developers (admittedly some misdirected aggression) for not having a clue what they were working with and blankly stated that the redundant constraints (among other things if found...no bind variables for one) would negatively affect performance. .after possibly putting my foot in my mouth I'm looking to validate what I said. ...if I don't get any responses to this, I'll run the trace myself and post my findings. oh yeah...the .not developers responded by saying the redundant constraints wouldn't be a problem in sql server. ...something I'm almost positive they haven't validated either. Thanks! chris -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Chris Stephens INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kevin Toepke INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
powerbuilder in rbo and multiple constraint question...
I'm working with a 3rd party vendor to resolve some performance issues with there call center app. The app is written in PowerBuilder. When I traced the offending sessions, I noticed the queries are being run under the rbo. When I run those same queries under the cbo the response time is dramatically different. I asked why they insisted on running under the rbo. There response was that it's a limitation of powerbuilder. I don't buy that for a second. ...anyone know for sure? ..and on a side note...my company is developing a call center app in .not. The dba's were conveniently left out of the design process. I just took a look at the schema they are using and noticed redundant constraints on almost every table. i.e. not null, primary key, unique on the same column. Before I investigate myself with a 10046, does anyone know if oracle has to do multiple recursive sql to validate each constraint or is it smart enough to know they are redundant and only validate the pk constraint? .when I saw this, I blasted the developers (admittedly some misdirected aggression) for not having a clue what they were working with and blankly stated that the redundant constraints (among other things if found...no bind variables for one) would negatively affect performance. ..after possibly putting my foot in my mouth I'm looking to validate what I said. ...if I don't get any responses to this, I'll run the trace myself and post my findings. oh yeah...the .not developers responded by saying the redundant constraints wouldn't be a problem in sql server. ...something I'm almost positive they haven't validated either. Thanks! chris -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Chris Stephens INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
