Re: [OGD] Need help identifying a dendrobium species
Mr. O'Byrne, I didn't bother responding to that Mike and Candy post on the digest because I figure that feeding the troll will just encourage more of them to crawl out their holes. I just want you to know that I really appreciate and enjoy your many posts to the list. I think you are one of -- if not THE -- most important contributor to the Orchid Digest. If there's anything interesting to read on it, it's usually from you. I wish the moderator would moderate the few morons that stir up trouble, but he won't. Please ignore them, and know that when you are offended by them, many many more of us are offended by them as well. Cheers Sandy --- www.pollenatrix.com Botanical discipline, daily. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Need help identifying a dendrobium species
Well, that was supposed to be a private message oops. Oh well. On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:35:10 -0800, Sandy Gillians [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. O'Byrne, I didn't bother responding to that Mike and Candy post on the digest because I figure that feeding the troll will just encourage more of them to crawl out their holes. I just want you to know that I really appreciate and enjoy your many posts to the list. I think you are one of -- if not THE -- most important contributor to the Orchid Digest. If there's anything interesting to read on it, it's usually from you. I wish the moderator would moderate the few morons that stir up trouble, but he won't. Please ignore them, and know that when you are offended by them, many many more of us are offended by them as well. Cheers Sandy --- www.pollenatrix.com Botanical discipline, daily. -- www.pollenatrix.com Botanical discipline, daily. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Need help identifying a dendrobium species
Nik, Jim and Rosli, Rosli has got hold of a very interesting plant, quite unlike any Dendrobium I've ever seen before. Unfortunately, it is not possible to make a full identification, for several reasons: 1) Rosli said it came from Terengganu. This is an inadequate provenance ... before I could say it was a species (rather than a man-made plant) I would need assurances that the plant had been collected in the wild. This is exactly the sort of thing that is most commonly found in nurseries, where people have been making hybrids or playing with colchicine. Let's pretend it was wild-collected, and continue. 2) The photo doesn't show the bits I really need to see. It gives a nice impression of the inflorescence, but doesn't show much detail on the flower. In this case, I'm particularly interested in seeing: (a) the whole of the petals, preferably stretched out flat. (b) the shape of the lip; the photo shows a fimbriate midlobe, but I can't clearly see how the midlobe joins to the sidelobes (if there are any sidelobes at all) and if the sidelobes are fimbriate. (c) a much better look at the keels on the lip. (d) the gland(s) on the columnfoot. (e) the exterior of the lateral sepals, and the shape of the mentum. 3) I have no idea how big the flower is. I REALLY wish people would put a ruler (or other scale) in the photo. In this case, knowing the size would be a big help in eliminating one or more possible identities. 4) I can't tell which section the plant belongs in. I really do need a photo of the whole plant (with a scale in the picture) to be certain that I've got the section correct. In this case, I could eliminate 2 of the possible identities if I knew the plant's habit. 5) I'm pretty certain the flower is peloric. The petals have acquired some of the characters of the lip ... the long cilia are very obvious, but (as far as I can tell) the outer half of the petal tip has the shape of the midlobe. This considerably diminishes the prospects of identifying the plant, because in peloric forms there are usually a range of floral characters that have been altered, including shape, size, colour, column details, and even the number of flowers on the inflorescence. OK, I like a real challenge, so I'm going to stick my neck out and, always assuming it is a real plant (not a colchicine-induced monstrosity), have a crack at an identification. It probably belongs in section Breviflores, rather than more obvious candidates like Calcarifera, Rhopalanthe, or Formosae. The Thai/Malay area has 4 Breviflores species with a fimbriate midlobe. All 4 are possibles: a) Dendrobium stuposum Lindley. Range is distant (Himalaya to north Thailand) but not impossible. Stems quite thick fleshy; more like # Dendrobium than # Breviflores. Inflorescence always 1-2 flowered (pelorism could alter this). Flowers white with yellow or green-yellow on the lip. Midlobe noticably thickened. b) Dendrobium spegidoglossum Rchb.f. Range is correct; Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia, Sumatra and Java. Stems slender, 60 cm. Inflorescence usually 5-6 flowered. Flowers smaller than D. stuposum, pale yellow, darker brown-yellow patch on midlobe. Midlobe thickened, 3 keels extend from lip base to base of midlobe. c) Dendrobium umbonatum Seidenfaden. Range: Thailand...Trat (quite a distance from Terengganu). Stems slender. 35 cm. Inflorescence 1-4 flowered. Flowers same size as D. stuposum, white, lip greenish-white with yellow patch on midlobe. An unlikely candidate since the floral bracts are nothing like the bracts in the photo (the midlobe is also the wrong shape). d) Dendrobium pauciflorum King Pantling. Range is distant (Himalaya to north Thailand) but not impossible. Stems thick fleshy; more like # Dendrobium than # Breviflores. Inflorescences 1-8 flowered. Flowers same size as D. spegidoglossum, creamy-white, sepals and petals with red margins (pelorism could alter this). Midlobe noticably thickened, the thickening continuing backwards into the throat of the flower, but not reaching the lip base. Lateral sepals are externally keeled, the keels forming a free-standing tooth where they extend beyond the sepal apex. This plant is unlikely to be (c), but could be any of (a), (b) and (d). I'd say D. spegidoglossum is the best candidate, but it is impossible to be certain on the information provided. Cheers, Peter O'Byrne Singapore ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Need help identifying a dendrobium species
Dear Peter, Thanks a lot for your opinion. The plant is definitely a jungle collected one. I'm sure Rosli will provide you with better quality pictures as you has requested for a positive id. Regards Nik On 26 Jan 2005 at 23:25, Peter O'Byrne wrote: Nik, Jim and Rosli, Rosli has got hold of a very interesting plant, quite unlike any Dendrobium I've ever seen before. Unfortunately, it is not possible to make a full identification, for several reasons: 1) Rosli said it came from Terengganu. This is an inadequate provenance ... before I could say it was a species (rather than a man-made plant) I would need assurances that the plant had been collected in the wild. This is exactly the sort of thing that is most commonly found in nurseries, where people have been making hybrids or playing with colchicine. Let's pretend it was wild-collected, and continue. 2) The photo doesn't show the bits I really need to see. It gives a nice impression of the inflorescence, but doesn't show much detail on the flower. In this case, I'm particularly interested in seeing: (a) the whole of the petals, preferably stretched out flat. (b) the shape of the lip; the photo shows a fimbriate midlobe, but I can't clearly see how the midlobe joins to the sidelobes (if there are any sidelobes at all) and if the sidelobes are fimbriate. (c) a much better look at the keels on the lip. (d) the gland(s) on the columnfoot. (e) the exterior of the lateral sepals, and the shape of the mentum. 3) I have no idea how big the flower is. I REALLY wish people would put a ruler (or other scale) in the photo. In this case, knowing the size would be a big help in eliminating one or more possible identities. 4) I can't tell which section the plant belongs in. I really do need a photo of the whole plant (with a scale in the picture) to be certain that I've got the section correct. In this case, I could eliminate 2 of the possible identities if I knew the plant's habit. 5) I'm pretty certain the flower is peloric. The petals have acquired some of the characters of the lip ... the long cilia are very obvious, but (as far as I can tell) the outer half of the petal tip has the shape of the midlobe. This considerably diminishes the prospects of identifying the plant, because in peloric forms there are usually a range of floral characters that have been altered, including shape, size, colour, column details, and even the number of flowers on the inflorescence. OK, I like a real challenge, so I'm going to stick my neck out and, always assuming it is a real plant (not a colchicine-induced monstrosity), have a crack at an identification. It probably belongs in section Breviflores, rather than more obvious candidates like Calcarifera, Rhopalanthe, or Formosae. The Thai/Malay area has 4 Breviflores species with a fimbriate midlobe. All 4 are possibles: a) Dendrobium stuposum Lindley. Range is distant (Himalaya to north Thailand) but not impossible. Stems quite thick fleshy; more like # Dendrobium than # Breviflores. Inflorescence always 1-2 flowered (pelorism could alter this). Flowers white with yellow or green-yellow on the lip. Midlobe noticably thickened. b) Dendrobium spegidoglossum Rchb.f. Range is correct; Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia, Sumatra and Java. Stems slender, 60 cm. Inflorescence usually 5-6 flowered. Flowers smaller than D. stuposum, pale yellow, darker brown-yellow patch on midlobe. Midlobe thickened, 3 keels extend from lip base to base of midlobe. c) Dendrobium umbonatum Seidenfaden. Range: Thailand...Trat (quite a distance from Terengganu). Stems slender. 35 cm. Inflorescence 1-4 flowered. Flowers same size as D. stuposum, white, lip greenish-white with yellow patch on midlobe. An unlikely candidate since the floral bracts are nothing like the bracts in the photo (the midlobe is also the wrong shape). d) Dendrobium pauciflorum King Pantling. Range is distant (Himalaya to north Thailand) but not impossible. Stems thick fleshy; more like # Dendrobium than # Breviflores. Inflorescences 1-8 flowered. Flowers same size as D. spegidoglossum, creamy-white, sepals and petals with red margins (pelorism could alter this). Midlobe noticably thickened, the thickening continuing backwards into the throat of the flower, but not reaching the lip base. Lateral sepals are externally keeled, the keels forming a free-standing tooth where they extend beyond the sepal apex. This plant is unlikely to be (c), but could be any of (a), (b) and (d). I'd say D. spegidoglossum is the best candidate, but it is impossible to be certain on the information provided. Cheers, Peter O'Byrne Singapore ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com --- Homepage : http://zanaf.dyndns.biz ___ the
Re: [OGD] Need help identifying a dendrobium species
Dear Peter, Thanks a lot for your opinion. There is no contribution O'Byrne can make to the world of orchids that even begins to compensate for his advocacy of the wanton slaughter of innocent people. Praising terrorists, supporting terrorism, is tantamount to being a terrorist. Mike ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
