Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
Thank you, Anne, for all your offers and help in this discussion. My expertise is greatest in making actual reports of incidents, over 35 years worth. The library system I worked in served a resident population of 150,000, but anyone in the metropolitan area of 2.5-3 million could freely walk in and get a library card, including any out-of-state students residing at any of the campuses in the metropolitan area. I have legally testified about a report I wrote and I am aware of one other instance of someone having to give testimony about a report. I am very aware of the legal ramifications of writing a report. John has accepted my offer to help create a report form that should meet immediate requirements for this summer’s convention. I have offered to give training on using neutral language, focusing on actual events and behaviors rather than personal opinion of the people involved or the situation being described. I guarantee no one taking a report will like the form. I expect that it will be tweaked before the convention starts, and revised afterwards and may not look like anything I suggest. The library’s reporting form changed greatly over the years as has its Code of Conduct. With all that said, and without the backing of a legal department and HR office, I am not afraid to take incident reports at Centerfold, either officially or if someone is uncomfortable approaching one of the people on duty. My overall opinion of the situation is that it’s hard to have to change things you have been nurturing for 11 years because of changes in societal expectations. Carol Martinson Sent from my iPad > On May 19, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Anne LaVin wrote: > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:04 AM Weinstein, Michael > wrote: > > Says me if we can’t have a gathering of adults for one weekend without the > > expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone, > > That ship has, clearly, already sailed, and years ago at that. We're fooling > ourselves if we think our community is just one big happy family all the time. > > Which is not to say that there aren't a lot of great people in origami, and > that for the most part, people treat each other quite well. In my own > personal experience, anyway, most people at origami conventions actually > treat each other *better* than out in the big old real world. But it's clear > that bad stuff happens in our little corner, too. > > > we just shouldn’t do it. My enthusiasm for Origami conventions has taken a > > BIG nosedive over this. > > This has rattled me, solidly, for the past week. I am horrified to have heard > from friends and colleagues about some of their experiences. But rather than > making me want to avoid the community or its events ... it makes me want to > help fix it. Hence this discussion. > > > There is one aspect of this whole RoC discussion that REALLY bothers me. > > Lots of folks have said they support RoC for lots of reasons. Doesn’t > > sound so bad, writing one of these things looks like the work of a couple > > hours. Enforcing it, another matter entirely. > > > > My employer has a Human Resources Department. Allegations of harassment, > > discrimination and other maladaptive behavior get sent there. Such > > allegations are handled by a professional staff that is well paid and > > trained to handle such situations in a professional manner. > > > > This is what the volunteers of Centerfold have been asked to do. And I > > will note that no where have I seen even one person volunteer to write said > > RoC and/or implement it at Centerfold. > > Actually, we've had one generous list member, with professional experience in > just such things, volunteer right here on the list. Perhaps you missed it? > Carol Martinson stepped up right at the start. > > > I for one don’t want to go anywhere near it. You can wind up in the middle > > of things you don’t want to be in the middle of. > > There was an excellent show on TV for a while called "Dirty Jobs," which > celebrated those who do the work that makes "civilized life possible for the > rest of us." I'd classify this as exactly that. No one is saying this is > especially easy, but that doesn't mean it isn't important to try. > > And here's a thing: have any of the organizations *asked for assistance*? I > haven't seen any organization ask their membership for help drafting such a > thing (not that I couldn't have missed such a call for volunteers, it's not > like I'm a member everywhere nor do I see everything) nor ask specifically > for this kind of volunteer help at conventions. (OrigamiUSA drafted their CoC > internally, I believe, and then added to it with some cyber-specific > guidelines, an effort of which I was a part in my capacity as > website/sysadmin volunteer.) Surely among the larger origami community there > are others who, like Carol, have both professional experience or expertise > they could apply there. Or what
Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
Thank you – we need allies in action at events. Knowing that people will be there to help should make a difference beyond the existence of a code of conduct. Alex // ab // alexbarber.com // visibleinlight.com On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:58 PM Anne LaVin wrote: > > Because it seems to me that there's not just the "we convention-goers want > our conventions to be better, organizers please help" here, there's also > *us*. We *are* the community. How can we help each other? > > Maybe it's a tiny thing, but here, I'll start, and I mean it: > > *I will be an ally. Anyone, for any reason, at any convention that I'm > attending, can call or message me, or snag me in person, if you need a hand > in a bad situation, or a way to navigate around one. I don't need to know > you. Tell me you need help, and I will do whatever I can.* > > Anne > >>
Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:04 AM Weinstein, Michael wrote: > Says me if we can’t have a gathering of adults for one weekend without the expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone, That ship has, clearly, already sailed, and years ago at that. We're fooling ourselves if we think our community is just one big happy family all the time. Which is not to say that there aren't a lot of great people in origami, and that for the most part, people treat each other quite well. In my own personal experience, anyway, most people at origami conventions actually treat each other *better* than out in the big old real world. But it's clear that bad stuff happens in our little corner, too. > we just shouldn’t do it. My enthusiasm for Origami conventions has taken a BIG nosedive over this. This has rattled me, solidly, for the past week. I am horrified to have heard from friends and colleagues about some of their experiences. But rather than making me want to avoid the community or its events ... it makes me want to help fix it. Hence this discussion. > There is one aspect of this whole RoC discussion that REALLY bothers me. Lots of folks have said they support RoC for lots of reasons. Doesn’t sound so bad, writing one of these things looks like the work of a couple hours. Enforcing it, another matter entirely. > > My employer has a Human Resources Department. Allegations of harassment, discrimination and other maladaptive behavior get sent there. Such allegations are handled by a professional staff that is well paid and trained to handle such situations in a professional manner. > > This is what the volunteers of Centerfold have been asked to do. And I will note that no where have I seen even one person volunteer to write said RoC and/or implement it at Centerfold. Actually, we've had one generous list member, with professional experience in just such things, volunteer right here on the list. Perhaps you missed it? Carol Martinson stepped up right at the start. > I for one don’t want to go anywhere near it. You can wind up in the middle of things you don’t want to be in the middle of. There was an excellent show on TV for a while called "Dirty Jobs," which celebrated those who do the work that makes "civilized life possible for the rest of us." I'd classify this as exactly that. No one is saying this is especially easy, but that doesn't mean it isn't important to try. And here's a thing: have any of the organizations *asked for assistance*? I haven't seen any organization ask their membership for help drafting such a thing (not that I couldn't have missed such a call for volunteers, it's not like I'm a member everywhere nor do I see everything) nor ask specifically for this kind of volunteer help at conventions. (OrigamiUSA drafted their CoC internally, I believe, and then added to it with some cyber-specific guidelines, an effort of which I was a part in my capacity as website/sysadmin volunteer.) Surely among the larger origami community there are others who, like Carol, have both professional experience or expertise they could apply there. Or what about advisors from groups who are frequently targets of harassment? Might not input from such organizations also guide us? So, you all out there - do we have any lawyers, HR folk, event organizers, etc., who've created and implemented CoCs in their communities who could step up? Are there volunteers who'd be interested in helping out at conventions or other events? Are there members of any communities who've been involved in (or want to start) some kind of education and ally-ship efforts to open up and bring communities together to support each other? Because it seems to me that there's not just the "we convention-goers want our conventions to be better, organizers please help" here, there's also *us*. We *are* the community. How can we help each other? Maybe it's a tiny thing, but here, I'll start, and I mean it: *I will be an ally. Anyone, for any reason, at any convention that I'm attending, can call or message me, or snag me in person, if you need a hand in a bad situation, or a way to navigate around one. I don't need to know you. Tell me you need help, and I will do whatever I can.* Anne >
Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
My first origami convention was in the '80's, going to OUSA when classes were still at the Museum of Natural History. The last one I attended was in NYC, also with OUSA, in 2015. Between then I've been to other conventions in the creative community – Houston has some big draw events for comics and anime – and those are probably a different crowd than the ones I've seen for origami events. Note that as a white man attending these events for 40 years, I have not been on the receiving end of the harassment that others have, or that others want to call out and address with a CoC. But based on accounts I've read – including some shared on this list – I do see the need for a CoC. There is a difference between an unwritten expectation of behavior, and expressing that expectation in writing that also states there are consequences for bad behavior. If nothing is in writing, a bad actor has a way out. Creative events have had codes for a while, and I have not seen a drop in attendance as a result. Alex // ab // alexbarber.com // visibleinlight.com On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:04 AM Weinstein, Michael wrote: > Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold. > > … > > Says me if we can’t have a gathering of adults for one weekend without the > expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone, we just shouldn’t do > it. My enthusiasm for Origami conventions has taken a *BIG* nosedive over > this. > > > > Michael Weinstein > > >
Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:04 AM Weinstein, Michael wrote: > Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold. > This discussion isn't really about Centerfold, but you do bring up some points that I would like to address. Yes, enforcing a CoC does take some effort, but I believe it is part of the work of running a modern convention. CenterFold is already doing the work, according to John, because he has handled every complaint he has received in the past (apparently mostly minor class disruptions, as I understand it). This just formalizes and structures the process and, potentially, lets the work be delegated to other people instead of requiring the attention of the main organizers. I would also note that the level of effort needed to manage this process for a convention of a couple hundred people for a weekend is not the same as a university setting with tens of thousands of students, faculty, and staff. > This is what the volunteers of Centerfold have been asked to do. And I > will note that *no where* have I seen even one person volunteer to write > said RoC and/or implement it at Centerfold. I for one don’t want to go > anywhere near it. You can wind up in the middle of things you don’t want > to be in the middle of. > There has been a lot of discussion and it may be easy to miss, but one of the first responses in this discussion was from Carol Martinson who cited her experience with writing CoCs for the library she worked for and offered to specifically help Centerfold write one. John Scully then replied that he was interested in taking her up on that offer. Search your email for the subject line "CoC - Volunteering Offer". I am pretty sure that other people would have been happy to help create sooner if their requests for and questions about a CoC at Centerfold had been met with more than scorn, derision, and stonewalling. In my email discussion with John that started in Sept. 2019, that is what I was trying to do. As far as for implementing and executing a CoC at Centerfold, at least one person in the facebook discussion volunteered to be part of a group that would receive incident reports and manage the process. I am sure that a convention with adequate goodwill and social capital could find other people willing to help because they consider this an important and worthwhile effort. It is also a way that people can volunteer to help regardless of how far from an event they happen to live. I, for one, would be willing to act as such a volunteer at a convention that I felt welcomed to attend. Unfortunately, Centerfold may have squandered some of its goodwill and social capital already. > Says me if we can’t have a gathering of adults for one weekend without the > expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone, we just shouldn’t do > it. My enthusiasm for Origami conventions has taken a *BIG* nosedive over > this. > That is a shame. Says me if we can't have a reasonable, published set of ground rules for an event and a way of managing the outcomes, we just shouldn't have the event. malachi >
Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
1. We are discussing Codes of Conduct here. 2. The point is, people are already winding up in things that they don’t want to be in the middle of. The expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone has already been shown to be untrue. That’s why a Code of Conduct is necessary. 3. CenterFold may have been the impetus that triggered this latest discussion, but the point of Anne opening up this forum was to focus on the merits/demerits of Codes of Conduct in general, not to rehash specific grievances. -- Joseph Wu, Not an OUSA operative (via iPhone) e: josep...@origami.as w: http://www.origami.as flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/josephwuorigami/ facebook: http://www.facebook.com/joseph.wu.origami > On May 19, 2021, at 07:04, Weinstein, Michael wrote: > > > Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold. > > There is one aspect of this whole RoC discussion that REALLY bothers me. Lots > of folks have said they support RoC for lots of reasons. Doesn’t sound so > bad, writing one of these things looks like the work of a couple hours. > Enforcing it, another matter entirely. > > My employer has a Human Resources Department. Allegations of harassment, > discrimination and other maladaptive behavior get sent there. Such > allegations are handled by a professional staff that is well paid and trained > to handle such situations in a professional manner. > > This is what the volunteers of Centerfold have been asked to do. And I will > note that no where have I seen even one person volunteer to write said RoC > and/or implement it at Centerfold. I for one don’t want to go anywhere near > it. You can wind up in the middle of things you don’t want to be in the > middle of. > > Says me if we can’t have a gathering of adults for one weekend without the > expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone, we just shouldn’t do it. > My enthusiasm for Origami conventions has taken a BIG nosedive over this. > > Michael Weinstein >
Re: [Origami] Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold.
Rules of conduct (RoC) and Centerfold. There is one aspect of this whole RoC discussion that REALLY bothers me. Lots of folks have said they support RoC for lots of reasons. Doesn’t sound so bad, writing one of these things looks like the work of a couple hours. Enforcing it, another matter entirely. My employer has a Human Resources Department. Allegations of harassment, discrimination and other maladaptive behavior get sent there. Such allegations are handled by a professional staff that is well paid and trained to handle such situations in a professional manner. This is what the volunteers of Centerfold have been asked to do. And I will note that no where have I seen even one person volunteer to write said RoC and/or implement it at Centerfold. I for one don’t want to go anywhere near it. You can wind up in the middle of things you don’t want to be in the middle of. Says me if we can’t have a gathering of adults for one weekend without the expectation that everyone can be civil to everyone, we just shouldn’t do it. My enthusiasm for Origami conventions has taken a BIG nosedive over this. Michael Weinstein
