Re: Various levels of security, how do you do it?

2001-11-14 Thread Daniel López

Hi Alex,

AFAIK, the only things you have when using JSDK specified security are
those you mention: Defining roles in web.xml and using isUserInRole()
inside your code. We thought it could have done better and we pointed
out the shortcomings, like your second option, to the spec guys. They
answered that that was right, but as pretty much nobody was complaining
about it, they assumed it was a feature that was not required. So we
ended up implementing our own security architecture that handles this
kind of things nicely.
Our system allows you to specify the security requirements per-request,
so you can specify a different domain depending on the parameters (like
which object the operation is going to be performed upon) and the
environment (like which user is authenticated). These settings are
specified through interfaces and abstract classes, so it wouldn't be too
hard to create a specificacion using them. There are some other
shortcomings that forced us to implement our own solution, but I won't
get into detail.
Sorry about the long answer, the short one that I was told by the spec
guys was no, that's everything that you have.
regards,
D


Alex Paransky wrote:
 
 We are in a process of developing an application, and are looking for ways
 to implement security, we have the following requirements:
 
 1. There are operations that certain members cannot perform in general
 2. There are operations that certain members cannot perform relative to an
 object (owner vs non-owner)
 
 What are some of the mechanims that you are using to deal with these
 problems.  I assume, in the first case you can use deployment descriptor.
 Also isInRole query can be made to determine if particular option should be
 shown to the user during the .JSP processing.
 
 The second option is a bit more difficult to implement, since a particular
 user can be an owner of some objects but not others.  How can this
 requirement be implemented?
 
 Thanks.
 -AP_




HTTP response help please ?

2001-11-14 Thread Eddie

Hellu,

Please some HTTP response help as it drives me grazy.
 I have a tiny java program (originaly it is part of the EJB but I extrated
it to a stand-alone program for testing) that opens a Url connection and
sends something through a Stream. It then reads the response from the input
stream.
 The strange thing is that some a jsp, and asp give me an error when trying
to open the input stream when to get the respons. I am a bit confused and
don't know the exact requirements of the receiving side to not receive this
respons error.
When I make connection to an empty asp I don't have any error, but to an asp
that has some code, I do get an error. When calling my servlets I don't get
any error. it looks like the called page should return something in a proper
way otherwhise the receiving side doesn't understand it... or something like
that. Search a lot on the web. nothing :(
Please some help on this.

 Here is the code snap, used trying to solve the problem :
-
public static void main(String[] args) {
HttpURLConnection connection=null;
  DataOutputStream out=null;

 if (args.length!=1) {
 System.out.println(To less input parameters detected);
 System.exit(-1);
  }
  String url=args[0];

 try {
  System.out.println(Trying to connect to +url);
   URL urlCon = new URL(url); // open connection with remote server
   connection = (HttpURLConnection) urlCon.openConnection();
   connection.setDoOutput(true); // indicate the we want to write output.
   connection.setDoInput (true); // indicate the we expect input.
   connection.setUseCaches (false); // no cache.

  String bla=SOMETHING;

   connection.setRequestProperty(CONTENT_LENGTH,  + sms.length());
   out = new DataOutputStream(connection.getOutputStream());
   System.out.println(Trying to send: +bla);
   out.writeBytes (bla);
   out.flush ();
   out.close(); // free shared resources.

   // Getting response code/string from remote server.

 DataInputStream input;
 InputStream resStrm = connection.getInputStream ();
 // HERE IS WERE
 COMPLAINS.
 int res = connection.getResponseCode();
 System.out.println(Return: +res);

 input = new DataInputStream (resStrm);
 String str;
   while (null != ((str = input.readLine(
System.out.println (str);

 -

 The error:
 --
 java.io.FileNotFoundException: http://10.17.17.213/m2u/interfaces/g
 aap.asp at sun.net.www.protocol.http.HttpURLConnection.getInputStre
 am(Unknown Source)  at java.net.HttpURLConnection.getResponseCode(Unknown
Source)
 at connect2Url.main(connect2Url.java:49)
 ---


 The test jsp to receive it, that doesn't work:

System.out.println(Receiving something);

  BufferedReader in = new BufferedReader(new
 InputStreamReader(request.getInputStream()));
  String inputLine = ;
  String totLine = ;

  while ((inputLine = in.readLine()) != null) {
totLine = totLine + inputLine;
   }
  in.close();   // close input stream.
System.out.println(Received: +totLine);

response.setContentType(text/html);
response.setStatus(200);
 

When I call an empty asp page it all goes well ... :(

Regards,
Ed Bras






RE: User exceptions from EJB

2001-11-14 Thread UnicMan

What is the superclass of DocumentSecurityException?

If not Exception, try with superclass as Exception.

I think if the exception inherits RuntimeException or
EJBException, you may find that it doesn't reach client.

Tell me if I am wrong!

Hope it helps... seeya.

- UnicMan

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sergey G.
 Aslanov
 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:41 PM
 To: Orion-Interest
 Subject: User exceptions from EJB


 Hello All

 I try to throw business exception from finder method of my entity EJB:

 public Collection ejbFindByUniLinks(int obj2, int n2)
throws FinderException, DocumentSecurityException
^

 but it doesn't reach the client level.
 In home interface wrapper I found this lines:
 ==
 ...
 java.util.Collection response = null;
 ...
 try
 {
 response =
 ((ru.cboss.components.document.ejb.DocumentEJB)finderContext.objec
 t).ejbFindByUniLinks(argument0, argument1);
 // My finder method is called, here exception is thrown.
 // response was not initialized!
 }
 catch(ru.cboss.components.document.exceptions.DocumentSecurityException e)
 {
 methodException = e;
 // Exception is catched here
 }
 catch(javax.ejb.FinderException e)
 {
 methodException = e;
 }
 catch(Throwable e)
 {
 if(thread.transaction != null)
 setRollbackOnly(thread.transaction, e.toString(), e);
 this.log(e);
 methodException = EJBUtils.getUserException(e, !created);
 }
 java.util.Collection collection = new java.util.ArrayList();
 Iterator iterator = response.iterator();
 // Because finder method throwed exception, response variable was not
 // initialized and was left null,
 // so this line cause NullPointerException, wich comes to the
 // client level!
 ...
 ==

 Is it a bug?
 How can I deliver error message from finder method in a different way?

 --
 Best regards,
  Sergey G. Aslanov  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]








Re[2]: User exceptions from EJB

2001-11-14 Thread Sergey G. Aslanov

U What is the superclass of DocumentSecurityException?

U If not Exception, try with superclass as Exception.

DocumentSecurityException inherits Exception...

U I think if the exception inherits RuntimeException or
U EJBException, you may find that it doesn't reach client.

U Tell me if I am wrong!

U Hope it helps... seeya.

U - UnicMan

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sergey G.
 Aslanov
 Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:41 PM
 To: Orion-Interest
 Subject: User exceptions from EJB


 Hello All

 I try to throw business exception from finder method of my entity EJB:

 public Collection ejbFindByUniLinks(int obj2, int n2)
throws FinderException, DocumentSecurityException
^

 but it doesn't reach the client level.
 In home interface wrapper I found this lines:
 ==
 ...
 java.util.Collection response = null;
 ...
 try
 {
 response =
 ((ru.cboss.components.document.ejb.DocumentEJB)finderContext.objec
 t).ejbFindByUniLinks(argument0, argument1);
 // My finder method is called, here exception is thrown.
 // response was not initialized!
 }
 catch(ru.cboss.components.document.exceptions.DocumentSecurityException e)
 {
 methodException = e;
 // Exception is catched here
 }
 catch(javax.ejb.FinderException e)
 {
 methodException = e;
 }
 catch(Throwable e)
 {
 if(thread.transaction != null)
 setRollbackOnly(thread.transaction, e.toString(), e);
 this.log(e);
 methodException = EJBUtils.getUserException(e, !created);
 }
 java.util.Collection collection = new java.util.ArrayList();
 Iterator iterator = response.iterator();
 // Because finder method throwed exception, response variable was not
 // initialized and was left null,
 // so this line cause NullPointerException, wich comes to the
 // client level!
 ...
 ==

 Is it a bug?
 How can I deliver error message from finder method in a different way?

 --
 Best regards,
  Sergey G. Aslanov  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]








-- 
Sergey G. Aslanov
CBOSS Group,
Web-technologies department
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel: +7 095 7555655





Re: How can I start Orion Server as a service in WindowsNT/2000 ?

2001-11-14 Thread Robert L Gause


I recently went through the Orion on NT ordeal (I usually work on Unix/Linux)
and found some new info, so I thought I would pass it along.

To masquerade Orion as a service, I'm using SRVSTART.EXE from Nick Rozanski (
http://www.nick.rozanski.com/software.htm 
http://www.nick.rozanski.com/binaries/srvstart_run.v110.zip). The software is
open source and has lots of nice startup  shutdown options. Here is my config:

[Orion]
env=JAVA_HOME=C:\jdk1.3.1
path=C:\jdk1.3.1\bin;C:\WINNT\system32;C:\WINNT;C:\WINNT\System32\Wbem;C:\WINNT\system32\nls;C:\WINNT\system32\nls\English
startup=C:\jdk1.3.1\bin\javaw.exe -Xrs -jar orion.jar -out log\orion.out -err 
log\orion.err
startup_dir=c:\orion
shutdown_method=command
shutdown=C:\jdk1.3.1\bin\javaw -Xrs -jar c:\orion\admin.jar ormi://localhost/ admin 
123 -shutdown force
auto_restart=y
restart_interval=15

Another thing I found is that JDK 1.3.1 has a command line option (-Xrs) that disables 
console signals, so the JVM will not shutdown when the user logs out.

Hope this helps,
Bob



From: Vu Le Hung [EMAIL PROTECTED]@orionserver.com on 11/14/2001
  10:00 AM ZE7

Please respond to Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent by:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


To:   Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:  Re: How can I start Orion Server as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?



Dear all,
I tried many ways as some of you  proposed
    1. Use JNT
    2. Use JVMI2
    3. Use RunExecSvc
What I got is that I had Orion service added  to my system (as a Automatic
service) but
    - This service does not start  automatically when my computer boots up.
    - Even after I start it by hand  successfully, the Http Server doesn't
start with the Orion service. (i.e. I can't get to my home page  installed in
my computer by typing my IP address in IE)


Any one know why ??? Please give me an idea.  Thanks.


By the way, my system configuration is
    + PIII 667MHz 128MB  RAM
    + Win2000 Advanced  Server
    + JDK1.3
    + Orion 1.4.5 demo  version.
My website work fine when I start  Orion manually.
Yours,
Vu Le Hung

- Original Message -
From:  Justin  Crosbie
To: Orion-Interest
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:49  PM
Subject: RE: How can I start Orion Server  as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?

Hi  Vu,

You  need the JNT application from http://www.eworksmart.com/JNT/

Install  this and type a command similar to the following, from where you
installed  Orion:
     jnt /InstallAsService:Orion Application Server /SD[ORION_HOME] -jar
orion.jar

where  [ORION_HOME] is where you installed Orion. Worked for me, anyway. I had
a job  getting other java apps to run using this tool though :(

This  has come up in the list before, so do a search on the archive for more
info.

One  thing I have noticed is that Orion runs slower this way than if you start
it  from a command prompt. Anyone know anything about this? I've asked this
before.

Cheers,
Justin
-Original Message-
From: Vu Le Hung  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 12 November 2001  04:38
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: How can I start Orion  Server as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?


Dear all,
I'm trying to find a way to start Orion Server  as a service in WindowsNT/2000
( i.e. Orion will be started  automatically when my computer startup without
any user  interaction).
Any one know how to do this ?
I tried this as below but it failed
    1. Write an small   Win32 application startorion.exe that calls java
-jar  orion.jar
2. Register it as a  automatic service (named MyService) with Win2000 using
Service Installation  Wizard tool in the Windows 2000 Server Resource Kit.
    3. Restart my computer.
Then I can find item MyService   in the list of all available services in  my
computer. But this service can not be start.
Any idea ??? Thanks in advance.
Vu Le Hung











Re: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J

2001-11-14 Thread Kesav Kumar
Title: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J



There is a serious problem in queueconnections in 
orion. If you try to obtain queueconnection in MDB you will run into some 
kind of deadlocks. I am not even sure what is the behaviour of this It 
gave me the exactly same problem when I tried to implement.

The alternate to this is write a Session Bean for 
submitting messages to queue. I wrote a SessionBean which just submits 
given message to specified queue. You can write all queueconnection and 
queue lookups in ejbCreate of the session bean.

Kesav Kumar


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

To: Orion-Interest 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:20 PM
Subject: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does 
not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J

We have a MDB that processes messages, we need it to put the 
results in ANOTHER queue. 
This does not work right now, as per a couple of examples I 
found on the web this is what we are trying 
 public void ejbCreate() throws EJBException, 
CreateException  {  try  {  
InitialContext context = new InitialContext(); 
 
QueueConnectionFactory conFactory = ( QueueConnectionFactory )context.lookup( 
CONNECTION_FACTORY );  // 
^  // 
Create a JMS connection  
this.connection = conFactory.createQueueConnection();  // 
Create a JMS session object  
this.session = connection.createQueueSession( false, Session.AUTO_ACKNOWLEDGE 
);  // 
Start the connection so we can use it  
this.connection.start();  // 
Lookup a JMS queue  
this.searchResultsQueue = ( Queue )context.lookup( QUEUE_NAME ); 
 // 
Create a JMS sender  
this.sender = session.createSender( this.searchResultsQueue ); 
 }  catch ( Exception e ) 
 {  // 
error is logged by our logging service  } 
the line that looks up the connection factory fails 
if we move this to onMessage() it works, where should this go 
to avoid creating this on EVERY message. 
ejbCreate() is the "CORRECT" place as per all the examples and 
everything else. 
Jarrod Roberson 


RE: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J

2001-11-14 Thread jroberson
Title: RE: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J





We figured out what the problem is.


The beans are being deployed before the JNDI tree is initialized or something.
As long as the QueueConnectionFactory is gotten in the onMessage() it works.


I just put an if() block around the try/catch block to see if this.connection == null
if it is I initialize everything, else I just use the static methods.


This needs to be FIXED. ejbCreate it the place to put this code and ejbRemove is where the clean up
code should be.


Thanks for all the replies.

-Original Message-
From: Kesav Kumar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:07 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J



There is a serious problem in queueconnections in orion. If you try to obtain queueconnection in MDB you will run into some kind of deadlocks. I am not even sure what is the behaviour of this It gave me the exactly same problem when I tried to implement.


The alternate to this is write a Session Bean for submitting messages to queue. I wrote a SessionBean which just submits given message to specified queue. You can write all queueconnection and queue lookups in ejbCreate of the session bean.


Kesav Kumar


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: Orion-Interest 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:20 PM
Subject: Using a Message Driven Bean to put in another Queue does not work with 1.5.2 / OC4J



We have a MDB that processes messages, we need it to put the results in ANOTHER queue. 
This does not work right now, as per a couple of examples I found on the web this is what we are trying 
 public void ejbCreate() throws EJBException, CreateException 
 { 
 try 
 { 
 InitialContext context = new InitialContext(); 
 QueueConnectionFactory conFactory = ( QueueConnectionFactory )context.lookup( CONNECTION_FACTORY ); 
 // ^ 
 // Create a JMS connection 
 this.connection = conFactory.createQueueConnection(); 
 // Create a JMS session object 
 this.session = connection.createQueueSession( false, Session.AUTO_ACKNOWLEDGE ); 
 // Start the connection so we can use it 
 this.connection.start(); 
 // Lookup a JMS queue 
 this.searchResultsQueue = ( Queue )context.lookup( QUEUE_NAME ); 
 // Create a JMS sender 
 this.sender = session.createSender( this.searchResultsQueue ); 
 } 
 catch ( Exception e ) 
 { 
 // error is logged by our logging service 
 } 
the line that looks up the connection factory fails 
if we move this to onMessage() it works, where should this go to avoid creating this on EVERY message. 
ejbCreate() is the CORRECT place as per all the examples and everything else. 
Jarrod Roberson 





RE: How can I start Orion Server as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?

2001-11-14 Thread SAURUGGER,PETER (A-PaloAlto,ex2)



Most 
likely you have not shut down another HTTP server which is listening on the same 
port (probably IIS). Either disable the other service, or use the Orion HTTP 
server on a different port. 

  -Original Message-From: Vu Le Hung 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 
  7:00 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: Re: How can I start 
  Orion Server as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?
  Dear all,
  I tried many ways as some of you 
  proposed
   1. Use JNT
   2. Use JVMI2 
   3. Use RunExecSvc
  What I got is that I hadOrion service added 
  to my system (as a Automatic service) but 
   - This service does not start 
  automatically when my computer boots up.
   - Even after I start it by 
  hand successfully, the Http Server doesn'tstart 
  withtheOrion service. (i.e. I can't 
  get to my home page installed in my computer by typing my IP address in 
  IE)
  
  
  Any one know why ??? Please give me an idea. 
  Thanks.
  
  By the way, my system configuration is 
  :
   + PIII 667MHz 128MB 
  RAM
   + Win2000 Advanced 
  Server
   + JDK1.3
   + Orion 1.4.5 demo 
  version.
  My website work fine when I start 
  Orionmanually. 
  
  
  
  
  
 
   
  Yours,

  
  
  
  
  
Vu Le Hung 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
   
  
  
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Justin 
Crosbie 
To: Orion-Interest 
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:49 
PM
Subject: RE: How can I start Orion 
Server as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?

Hi 
Vu,

You need the JNT application from http://www.eworksmart.com/JNT/

Install 
this and type a command similar to the following, from where you installed 
Orion:
 
jnt "/InstallAsService:Orion Application Server" "/SD[ORION_HOME]" -jar 
orion.jar

where 
[ORION_HOME] is where you installed Orion. Worked for me, anyway. I had a 
job getting other java apps to run using this tool though 
:(


This 
has come up in the list before, so do a search on the archive for more 
info.

One 
thing I have noticed is that Orion runs slower this way than if you start it 
from a command prompt. Anyone know anything about this? I've asked this 
before.

Cheers,
Justin

  -Original Message-From: Vu Le Hung 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 12 November 2001 
  04:38To: Orion-InterestSubject: How can I start 
  Orion Server as a service in Windows NT/2000 ?
  Dear all,
  I'm trying to find a way to start Orion 
  Server as a service in WindowsNT/2000( i.e.Orion will be started 
  automatically when my computer startup without any user 
  interaction).
  Any one know how to do this ?
  I tried this as below but it failed 
  :
   1. Write an small 
  Win32 application "startorion.exe" that calls "java -jar 
  orion.jar"
  2. Register it as a 
  automatic service (named MyService) with Win2000 using "Service 
  Installation Wizard" tool in the Windows 2000 Server Resource 
  Kit.
   3. Restart my computer. 
  
  Then I can find item "MyService" 
  inthe list of all available services 
  in my computer. But this service can not be start.
  Any idea ??? Thanks in advance.
   
  Vu Le Hung
  
   
  
  
   
  


JDBC Driver for DB2/400

2001-11-14 Thread Shah, Ritesh

Hi ,
  I am looking for JDBC driver which can be used in orion server for DB2/400
(i.e for AS/400). I tried to find on web but I was not able to find it. I am
looking for JDBC Driver for DB2  where DB2 is on AS400 and client is Windows
NT/2000.  Any Help is appriciated.


Thanks
Ritesh Shah




load-on-startup

2001-11-14 Thread Namor Taror

It seems that orion loads a servlet only when load-on-start in the web.xml 
is present and also the load-on-startup is set to true in the 
default-web-site.xml file. My understanding was that it should be sufficient 
to set the load-on-startup in the web.xml. Has anybody has a similar 
experience?

-roman

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp





Re: Message Driven Beans

2001-11-14 Thread Joe Sackett

Are you new to this mailing list?
There are countless postings regarding Orion MDBs.
IMHO, you can't get much more bleeding edge than Orion.
Check the archives...
- Joe

-Original Message-
From: El Jeffo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:59 PM
Subject: Message Driven Beans


I must have totally missed it, does orion or will orion support 
message driven beans soon?  If so, could you provide a few details
to just point me in the right direction?

If orion won't support this in the next month, would you recommend
another server which might do the job well? 

I like orion for its simplicity, but sometimes I need more 
bleeding edge stuff too.

Jeff






Mapping entity bean with ldap objects

2001-11-14 Thread Chetan Ithal

Hi,
   I'm using LDAP as my backend instead of database.
I've written BMP for this application. I've couple of
queries here. I would like to have some kind of
pooling just like db connection pool. Also, is there
any plan to support LDAP for CMP ?
Thanks In Advance,
- Chetan

__
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Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com




load-on-startup

2001-11-14 Thread Namor Taror

romen,

have you ever resolved the load-on-startup problem (message below)?. My 
server freezes all together.

-rr


ello,

If I use the load-on-startup in web.xml under my startup servlet, orion will
correctly start it up automatically. What I found strange was that when this
is done I cannot shutdown orion any more by using admin.jar or ctrl-C. If I
comment out the load-on-startup line, everything will be fine.

I am using orion 1.5.2 + JDK 1.3.0 + W2K

Has anyone encountered this?

cheers
romen




_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp





Remote RMI access problem!

2001-11-14 Thread sun




500 Internal Server ErrorServlet error: Unable to get home interface: java.lang.ClassCastException: areacodeHome_StatelessSessionHomeWrapper1 was not an instance of interface com.areacode.areacodeHome, the interfaces it implements is [Ljava.lang.Class;@a396d28c


SV: load-on-startup

2001-11-14 Thread Magnus Rydin

When you set your Servlet to autostart, it will be autostarted as soon as
the Web-module is started.
Normally, this would be when a user makes a request to this Web-module.
Is is therefore also needed to set the Web-module to autostart so that the
Web-module is started when the Server is started.

WR

 -Ursprungligt meddelande-
 Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]För Namor Taror
 Skickat: den 15 november 2001 04:12
 Till: Orion-Interest
 Ämne: load-on-startup


 It seems that orion loads a servlet only when load-on-start in
 the web.xml
 is present and also the load-on-startup is set to true in the
 default-web-site.xml file. My understanding was that it should be
 sufficient
 to set the load-on-startup in the web.xml. Has anybody has a similar
 experience?

 -roman

 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp






Re: Message Driven Beans

2001-11-14 Thread El Jeffo

 Are you new to this mailing list?
No just usually deaf :)  and blind...  does it surprise you? 

 There are countless postings regarding Orion MDBs.
I hate it when my brain filters out this stuff... must have passed
right under my nose while I wasn't interested in MDBs.  Then suddenly
I get interested, but can't find how to make orion dance.  But
this is good news, must mean MDBs do work in orion. Unless your
countless postings are about MDBs not working ;)

 IMHO, you can't get much more bleeding edge than Orion.
 Check the archives...
right on thanks... don't get me wrong, if other products worked
as well as orion, I'd consider using them as well.  Not the case
though... so now I'm just trying to make sure orion has the features.

Thanks,

Jeff


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