RE: Orion+Linux under heavy load
Hi All, I have lot of work to do, so of course I had to procrastinate and translate this! If it's wrong, then "jota" can blame himself for posting in a foreign language. Maybe it will help someone. Joanne Translation - I had this problem, too. Note that the comparison is made with Linux 2.2 (Sun JVM The sun virtual machine _is_ slow. Another thing to keep in mind is that there was a big change in the linux kernel since version 2.4.7, if I remember correctly. The change was in virtual memory management (VMM) In regards to the version, it's necessary to clear up a few things (I found out [about this] recently) There is a stable verison of the kernel that is headed by Linus Torvalds, it is the one that can be downloaded from www.kernel.org. On the other hand, there are patches to the kernel that are available but which have not been added to the Linus's branch because he has not approved them. The distributions (RedHat, SuSE, etc) come with a kernel that is different than that on the official branch, they incorporate the patches that they think are worthwhile. Por example, RH7.2 comes with kernel 2.4.7, with support for EXT3 and con the old VMM, while the official (Linus) version 2.4.7 does not have support for ext3, but _does_ have the new VMM. The issue of the VMM resulted in a big argument and Alan Cox (Redhat's Kernel Guru) made his own branch in which he incorporated many more kernel patches, but which still had the classic VMM. At my "work station" with the original distribution + the applications that I was running, it was running under strain, suddenly you could see a lot of swapping. Aferwards, after updating some libraries and changing the kernel to the official 2.4.17 everything worked a lot better, on the same equiptment. . . afterwords they upgraded me to 256 MB of RAM and now the difference isn't as noticeable. This thing about the new VMM is more or less recent ( 3 or 4 months ago) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 9:44 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load José: I-ve found another mail about the subject. Sorry for the rest because this one is in spanish. ---> Tengo tambien esto Notese que se hace la comparacion con Linux 2.2(Sun JVM La maquina virtual de sun _es_ lenta. Otra cosa a tomar en cuenta es que se hizo un cambio bastante fuerte en el kernel de linux a partir de la version 2.4.7 si no mal recuerdo. El cambio fue en el manejo de la memoria virtual (VMM) Sobre la version, hay que aclarar algunas cosas (yo me enteré no hace mucho) Hay una version estable del kernel que es liderada por Linus Torvalds, es la que se baja de www.kernel.org. Por otra parte hay parches al kernel que estan disponibles pero no han pasado a la rama de Linus porque él no los ha aprobado. Las distribuciones (RedHat, SuSE, etc) vienen con un kernel distinto a la rama oficial, ellos incorporan los parches que estimen convenientes. Por ejemplo RH7.2 viene con kernel 2.4.7, con soporte de EXT3 y con el antiguo VMM, mientras que el oficial (Linus) version 2.4.7 no tiene soporte para ext3, pero si cuenta con la nueva VMM. Con el asunto de la VMM se produjo una gran discusion y Alan Cox (Kernerl Guru de RedHat) creo su propia rama en donde incorporaba muchos mas parches del kernel, pero con la VMM clasica. En mi "estacion de trabajo" con la distribucion original + las aplicaciones que tenia andando le costaba andar, de repente se notaba harto swap. Despues con las actualizaciones de algunas librerias, y el cambio del kernel al oficial 2.4.17 funcionaba muchisimo mejor todo, en el mismo equipos... despues me subieron a 256MB en RAM y ya no se nota tanto la diferencia. Esto de la nueva VMM es mas o menos reciente (unos 3 o 4 meses atras) -- Franco Catrin L. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www2.netexplora.cl/ancelot http://defx.sourceforge.net ICQ#:30449379 - Original Message - From: "josete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load > Wich problem do you say they've fixed? threads under linux? i've done some > tests with a redhat 6.2.(sorry i can't remember exactly the kernel version) > and jboss, and only at start time it was about three times slower than the > same jboss in a windows 2000. > If with the new kernel versions it runs more efficiently, it would be great > because i'm a linux fan that has been forced to use windows by this > problem... XD > > - Original Message - > From: "Jorge Jimenez C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > >
Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load
Would you happen to have more specific info about the reliability issue? Is there any differences between JBoss and Orion? How about running these beasts on UNIX? Is Windows still the fastest optino we have? Cheers, Peter On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 11:29:32AM -0300, Jorge Jimenez C wrote: > Don't worry. That problem is already fixed in the latest linux kernel > releases. I don't remember exactly release number but you can easily find > it. I've made some tests with JBoss and it runs very well. > > JJ > > - Original Message - > From: "Peter Peltonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:57 AM > Subject: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > > > > > When browsing through JBoss's documentation I found this remark: > > > > http://www.jboss.org/online-manual/HTML/ch11s02.html > > > > Be aware however that JBoss performance is very dependant on the > > underlying configuration. For example, informal tests show that on the > > same PC box, it can run twice as fast under Windows 2000 / Sun JVM than > > under Linux 2.2 / Sun JVM. > > > > Linux users probably already know that linux does not support real > > threads. Under heavy load, JBoss will for example crash with 200 > > concurrent users under linux, whereas it can handle 1000 of them on the > > same box with Windows 2000. Of course, if you use Apache or Jetty in front > > of JBoss to handle the thread pooling, this will not be a problem. > > > > > > How about Orion, has anyone compared Win2k and Linux regarding speed? > > > > The last paragraph is really alarming -- is it really so that Linux is not > > a wise choice as a production platform? Is this why UNIX is so popular in > > production environments? Or is JBoss just coded poorly? How many users > > (sessions) can Orion handle, is there a difference in Win2k / Linux / UNIX > > performance? > > > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > > >
Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load
José: I-ve found another mail about the subject. Sorry for the rest because this one is in spanish. ---> Tengo tambien esto Notese que se hace la comparacion con Linux 2.2(Sun JVM La maquina virtual de sun _es_ lenta. Otra cosa a tomar en cuenta es que se hizo un cambio bastante fuerte en el kernel de linux a partir de la version 2.4.7 si no mal recuerdo. El cambio fue en el manejo de la memoria virtual (VMM) Sobre la version, hay que aclarar algunas cosas (yo me enteré no hace mucho) Hay una version estable del kernel que es liderada por Linus Torvalds, es la que se baja de www.kernel.org. Por otra parte hay parches al kernel que estan disponibles pero no han pasado a la rama de Linus porque él no los ha aprobado. Las distribuciones (RedHat, SuSE, etc) vienen con un kernel distinto a la rama oficial, ellos incorporan los parches que estimen convenientes. Por ejemplo RH7.2 viene con kernel 2.4.7, con soporte de EXT3 y con el antiguo VMM, mientras que el oficial (Linus) version 2.4.7 no tiene soporte para ext3, pero si cuenta con la nueva VMM. Con el asunto de la VMM se produjo una gran discusion y Alan Cox (Kernerl Guru de RedHat) creo su propia rama en donde incorporaba muchos mas parches del kernel, pero con la VMM clasica. En mi "estacion de trabajo" con la distribucion original + las aplicaciones que tenia andando le costaba andar, de repente se notaba harto swap. Despues con las actualizaciones de algunas librerias, y el cambio del kernel al oficial 2.4.17 funcionaba muchisimo mejor todo, en el mismo equipos... despues me subieron a 256MB en RAM y ya no se nota tanto la diferencia. Esto de la nueva VMM es mas o menos reciente (unos 3 o 4 meses atras) -- Franco Catrin L. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www2.netexplora.cl/ancelot http://defx.sourceforge.net ICQ#:30449379 - Original Message - From: "josete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load > Wich problem do you say they've fixed? threads under linux? i've done some > tests with a redhat 6.2.(sorry i can't remember exactly the kernel version) > and jboss, and only at start time it was about three times slower than the > same jboss in a windows 2000. > If with the new kernel versions it runs more efficiently, it would be great > because i'm a linux fan that has been forced to use windows by this > problem... XD > > - Original Message - > From: "Jorge Jimenez C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > > > Don't worry. That problem is already fixed in the latest linux kernel > > releases. I don't remember exactly release number but you can easily find > > it. I've made some tests with JBoss and it runs very well. > > > > JJ > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Peter Peltonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:57 AM > > Subject: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > > > > > > > > > When browsing through JBoss's documentation I found this remark: > > > > > > http://www.jboss.org/online-manual/HTML/ch11s02.html > > > > > > Be aware however that JBoss performance is very dependant on the > > > underlying configuration. For example, informal tests show that on the > > > same PC box, it can run twice as fast under Windows 2000 / Sun JVM than > > > under Linux 2.2 / Sun JVM. > > > > > > Linux users probably already know that linux does not support real > > > threads. Under heavy load, JBoss will for example crash with 200 > > > concurrent users under linux, whereas it can handle 1000 of them on the > > > same box with Windows 2000. Of course, if you use Apache or Jetty in > front > > > of JBoss to handle the thread pooling, this will not be a problem. > > > > > > > > > How about Orion, has anyone compared Win2k and Linux regarding speed? > > > > > > The last paragraph is really alarming -- is it really so that Linux is > not > > > a wise choice as a production platform? Is this why UNIX is so popular > in > > > production environments? Or is JBoss just coded poorly? How many users > > > (sessions) can Orion handle, is there a difference in Win2k / Linux / > UNIX > > > performance? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > >
AW: Orion+Linux under heavy load
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi, they changed a lot of the threading/vm stuff with the release of kernel 2.4. i don't remember exactly the kernel-version for redhat 6.2 but i'm sure it is a 2.2 at maximum. but i would also be interested in a comparision linux <-> freebsd. jdk 1.3 is now officially supported under freebsd too. someone's got any numbers here? jan - -- Jan Heise / Tel. +49-163-4803237 / [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von josete Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2002 20:58 An: Orion-Interest Betreff: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load Wich problem do you say they've fixed? threads under linux? i've done some tests with a redhat 6.2.(sorry i can't remember exactly the kernel version) and jboss, and only at start time it was about three times slower than the same jboss in a windows 2000. If with the new kernel versions it runs more efficiently, it would be great because i'm a linux fan that has been forced to use windows by this problem... XD - - Original Message - From: "Jorge Jimenez C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load > Don't worry. That problem is already fixed in the latest linux > kernel releases. I don't remember exactly release number but you > can easily find it. I've made some tests with JBoss and it runs > very well. > > JJ > > - Original Message - > From: "Peter Peltonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:57 AM > Subject: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > > > > > When browsing through JBoss's documentation I found this remark: > > > > http://www.jboss.org/online-manual/HTML/ch11s02.html > > > > Be aware however that JBoss performance is very dependant on the > > underlying configuration. For example, informal tests show that > > on the same PC box, it can run twice as fast under Windows 2000 / > > Sun JVM than under Linux 2.2 / Sun JVM. > > > > Linux users probably already know that linux does not support > > real threads. Under heavy load, JBoss will for example crash with > > 200 concurrent users under linux, whereas it can handle 1000 of > > them on the same box with Windows 2000. Of course, if you use > > Apache or Jetty in front > > of JBoss to handle the thread pooling, this will not be a > > problem. > > > > How about Orion, has anyone compared Win2k and Linux regarding > > speed? > > > > The last paragraph is really alarming -- is it really so that > > Linux is not > > a wise choice as a production platform? Is this why UNIX is so > > popular in > > production environments? Or is JBoss just coded poorly? How many > > users (sessions) can Orion handle, is there a difference in Win2k > > / Linux / UNIX > > performance? > > > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.0.4 iQA/AwUBPGO5/p/YNqVvLvLkEQKEygCeLV4BM3MvOU9o+ol5jD+KggTfgpIAnRcz 0Z5oI7RviYShM7VBKZoCeTbM =UlCt -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load
Wich problem do you say they've fixed? threads under linux? i've done some tests with a redhat 6.2.(sorry i can't remember exactly the kernel version) and jboss, and only at start time it was about three times slower than the same jboss in a windows 2000. If with the new kernel versions it runs more efficiently, it would be great because i'm a linux fan that has been forced to use windows by this problem... XD - Original Message - From: "Jorge Jimenez C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load > Don't worry. That problem is already fixed in the latest linux kernel > releases. I don't remember exactly release number but you can easily find > it. I've made some tests with JBoss and it runs very well. > > JJ > > - Original Message - > From: "Peter Peltonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:57 AM > Subject: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > > > > > When browsing through JBoss's documentation I found this remark: > > > > http://www.jboss.org/online-manual/HTML/ch11s02.html > > > > Be aware however that JBoss performance is very dependant on the > > underlying configuration. For example, informal tests show that on the > > same PC box, it can run twice as fast under Windows 2000 / Sun JVM than > > under Linux 2.2 / Sun JVM. > > > > Linux users probably already know that linux does not support real > > threads. Under heavy load, JBoss will for example crash with 200 > > concurrent users under linux, whereas it can handle 1000 of them on the > > same box with Windows 2000. Of course, if you use Apache or Jetty in front > > of JBoss to handle the thread pooling, this will not be a problem. > > > > > > How about Orion, has anyone compared Win2k and Linux regarding speed? > > > > The last paragraph is really alarming -- is it really so that Linux is not > > a wise choice as a production platform? Is this why UNIX is so popular in > > production environments? Or is JBoss just coded poorly? How many users > > (sessions) can Orion handle, is there a difference in Win2k / Linux / UNIX > > performance? > > > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > > >
Re: Orion+Linux under heavy load
Don't worry. That problem is already fixed in the latest linux kernel releases. I don't remember exactly release number but you can easily find it. I've made some tests with JBoss and it runs very well. JJ - Original Message - From: "Peter Peltonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:57 AM Subject: Orion+Linux under heavy load > > When browsing through JBoss's documentation I found this remark: > > http://www.jboss.org/online-manual/HTML/ch11s02.html > > Be aware however that JBoss performance is very dependant on the > underlying configuration. For example, informal tests show that on the > same PC box, it can run twice as fast under Windows 2000 / Sun JVM than > under Linux 2.2 / Sun JVM. > > Linux users probably already know that linux does not support real > threads. Under heavy load, JBoss will for example crash with 200 > concurrent users under linux, whereas it can handle 1000 of them on the > same box with Windows 2000. Of course, if you use Apache or Jetty in front > of JBoss to handle the thread pooling, this will not be a problem. > > > How about Orion, has anyone compared Win2k and Linux regarding speed? > > The last paragraph is really alarming -- is it really so that Linux is not > a wise choice as a production platform? Is this why UNIX is so popular in > production environments? Or is JBoss just coded poorly? How many users > (sessions) can Orion handle, is there a difference in Win2k / Linux / UNIX > performance? > > Cheers, > Peter > >
Orion+Linux under heavy load
When browsing through JBoss's documentation I found this remark: http://www.jboss.org/online-manual/HTML/ch11s02.html Be aware however that JBoss performance is very dependant on the underlying configuration. For example, informal tests show that on the same PC box, it can run twice as fast under Windows 2000 / Sun JVM than under Linux 2.2 / Sun JVM. Linux users probably already know that linux does not support real threads. Under heavy load, JBoss will for example crash with 200 concurrent users under linux, whereas it can handle 1000 of them on the same box with Windows 2000. Of course, if you use Apache or Jetty in front of JBoss to handle the thread pooling, this will not be a problem. How about Orion, has anyone compared Win2k and Linux regarding speed? The last paragraph is really alarming -- is it really so that Linux is not a wise choice as a production platform? Is this why UNIX is so popular in production environments? Or is JBoss just coded poorly? How many users (sessions) can Orion handle, is there a difference in Win2k / Linux / UNIX performance? Cheers, Peter
