Re: JBoss verses Orion
Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: JBoss verses Orion
But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Magnus and Karl both chip in now and then, they used to do that more in the past I guess, but (understandably) realised that it's a far better use of their time to ensure they have a stellar product, than to respond to endless complaints. As Joseph said, it depends on what you want out of your software. Killer performance, compliance to specs, excellent development environment, easy deployment, or fuzzy feelgood social aspects. The fuzzy stuff is nice, but given a choice Hani On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink
Re: JBoss verses Orion
Am I curious? Sure! /me types for a bit... Oh good, I just found out all I need to know. Or want to know. Or have a right to know. That's a double-edged quip- I talk to Karl all the time, really. Even if I didn't, the point's made - it doesn't matter if I know who Karl is in order for me to use his product. (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any rate, he and Elin.) To address a more relevant point - you can certainly find times on OI when the authors really do answer questions, usually correctly. However, they have more important things to do - OI is a user forum, just like orionsupport.com is. It's not their job to keep OI in line. (Unless we want to subsidize them. Do you?) On Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 07:59:37AM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
Re: JBoss verses Orion
When I was first introduced to Orion, Magnus was the one and only developer on the job. Unless Karl gave him the boot and rewrote all the code, which seems unlikely as at least on the phone Magnus sounds like one tough Swede, Magnus wrote the foundation of Orion. From what I know, Karl came in for both technology and business development (at which he's done nicely). Someone should write A Short History Of Orionserver. Mike - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any rate, he and Elin.)
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Thanks for the history lesson. Magnus and Karl have done one superb job for two people. -Original Message- From: Mike Sick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:20 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion When I was first introduced to Orion, Magnus was the one and only developer on the job. Unless Karl gave him the boot and rewrote all the code, which seems unlikely as at least on the phone Magnus sounds like one tough Swede, Magnus wrote the foundation of Orion. From what I know, Karl came in for both technology and business development (at which he's done nicely). Someone should write A Short History Of Orionserver. Mike - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any rate, he and Elin.)
RE: JBoss verses Orion
I don't think that getting a NullPointerException when trying to use a feature is complaint. I feel that the support of such a product is almost as important as the product it's self. Any commercial company that cannot support it's users, will fail. If there is not enouph people to support the product, then hire more. If there is not enouph money to hire more people, then increate the license fee for commercial deployment from $1500 to $3000. It does not make sence to keep the fee so low, and at the same time provide little or no support for the users. I have been trying to resolve the issue with "domain was null" NullPointerException in Orion for the last 4 weeks, with no repsonse. How am I supposed to continue using this product? -AP_ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hani Suleiman Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:28 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: JBoss verses Orion Magnus and Karl both chip in now and then, they used to do that more in the past I guess, but (understandably) realised that it's a far better use of their time to ensure they have a stellar product, than to respond to endless complaints. As Joseph said, it depends on what you want out of your software. Killer performance, compliance to specs, excellent development environment, easy deployment, or fuzzy feelgood social aspects. The fuzzy stuff is nice, but given a choice Hani On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink
