Re: [osdcmy] MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011)
Hi, The novel idea behind this bill is to enforce more accountability behind any critical public infrastructure engagement which is what we as taxpayers desperately need due to mostly opaque project management and layers of accountability structure that we have now. Having said that I do agree that the present draft raises more questions and issues that what it intend to solve. I believe the bill needs to balance the dynamics of technology industry, encouraging innovation, promoting transparency and accountability. I don't necessarily agree with wholesale scraping of the bill but it is critical to make fundamental changes to the content so that it reduces the questions and eventually strenghten the stakeholders I.e. Public, industry, enterpreneurship etc. I'm sure MOSTI has the resources to do this correctly with the stakeholders being in the picture. ihsan -Original Message- From: Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com Sender: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:48:32 To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Reply-To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Cc: Dunia DIgitaldunia-digi...@yahoogroups.com; ha...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [osdcmy] MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011) http://www.change.org/petitions/mosti-stop-computing-professionals-bill-2011-cpb2011 MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011) Greetings, I just signed the following petition addressed to: MOSTI. Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011) If this Bill becomes and Act, it will hamper the growth and innovation that is coming from the ICT sector. It will increase the cost to all spending in ICT and more importantly, it will encourage uncertified ICT experts to look for better opportunities abroad and accelerating the brain drain. Stop this bill and save the ICT sector of Malaysia. Sincerely, http://www.change.org/petitions/mosti-stop-computing-professionals-bill-2011-cpb2011 Discuss about this here https://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/
Re: [osdcmy] MSC Malaysia Cloud Computing Intiative
12 months free cloud hosting by participating service providers. but available only for msc companies. betul kan rafe. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:44 AM, kamal mohamed m.kamal.n...@gmail.comwrote: So what is the program offering? Regards Kamal On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:58 AM, azs...@gmail.com azs...@gmail.com wrote: Development on cloud. Sent from my HTC - Reply message - From: kamal mohamed m.kamal.n...@gmail.com To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Subject: [osdcmy] MSC Malaysia Cloud Computing Intiative Date: Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:47 pm What is this about again? Regards Kamal On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:36 AM, rafe azsnal azs...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, I'm extending the initiative to you who currently attach to a MSC Malaysia Status Company. Offered Programme 1. Maxis Comm - 12 + 3 Months worth of infrastructure (IaaS PaaS) - F.O.C - GTM Programme 1. Access to Maxis Corp Client 2. Access to Maxis Internal Sales Marketing Team 3. Access to Maxis Promotional Events 4. Business model on revenue sharing is open to discussion 5. Online and Offline advertisement 6. Access to MDeC promotional Activities include (B2B, B2C, B2G) 2. Jaring - 12 Months worth of infrastructure (IaaS PaaS) - F.O.C - GTM Programme 1. Access to Jaring Corp Client 2. Access to Jaring Government network 3. Access to Jaring Internal Sales Marketing Team 4. Access to Jaring Promotional Events 5. Business model on revenue sharing is open to discussion 6. Online and Offline advertisement 7. Access to MDeC promotional Activities include (B2B, B2C, B2G) we're currently in the mist of singing up with another 3 partners which one of it is to translate your application to multiple mobile platform. those that are interested do email me directly to mailto: r...@mdec.com.my alright guys. thank you. -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/
Re: [osdcmy] MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011)
saya sendiri setuju dgn pendapat en. ihsan. apa yg kita perlu buat ialah dapatkan seberapa detail penjelasan, kita perlukan kerjasama. mampu melalui oscc dah banyak bawa faedah dan impak. kalau takde oscc, takkan ada mygosscon. tak akan ada oss conference di malaysia ini. oscc sendiri adakan program certified training providers / oscc product partners. kita perlukan kerjasama supaya aktiviti komuniti tidak terhalang. installfest / penguin masuk kampung / hackfest / etc On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Ihsan Junaidi Ibrahim ihsan.juna...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The novel idea behind this bill is to enforce more accountability behind any critical public infrastructure engagement which is what we as taxpayers desperately need due to mostly opaque project management and layers of accountability structure that we have now. Having said that I do agree that the present draft raises more questions and issues that what it intend to solve. I believe the bill needs to balance the dynamics of technology industry, encouraging innovation, promoting transparency and accountability. I don't necessarily agree with wholesale scraping of the bill but it is critical to make fundamental changes to the content so that it reduces the questions and eventually strenghten the stakeholders I.e. Public, industry, enterpreneurship etc. I'm sure MOSTI has the resources to do this correctly with the stakeholders being in the picture. ihsan -Original Message- From: Harisfazillah Jamel linuxmalay...@gmail.com Sender: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:48:32 To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Reply-To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com Cc: Dunia DIgitaldunia-digi...@yahoogroups.com; ha...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [osdcmy] MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011) http://www.change.org/petitions/mosti-stop-computing-professionals-bill-2011-cpb2011 MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011) Greetings, I just signed the following petition addressed to: MOSTI. Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011) If this Bill becomes and Act, it will hamper the growth and innovation that is coming from the ICT sector. It will increase the cost to all spending in ICT and more importantly, it will encourage uncertified ICT experts to look for better opportunities abroad and accelerating the brain drain. Stop this bill and save the ICT sector of Malaysia. Sincerely, http://www.change.org/petitions/mosti-stop-computing-professionals-bill-2011-cpb2011 Discuss about this here https://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/ -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information OSDC.my Discussion Group In Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/osdcmalaysia/ Malaysia Open Source Conference 2012 MOSC2012 http://portal.mosc.my/
Re: [osdcmy] MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011)
hi, ..this is a long one, I have tried to logical but critical. .. Critique of the points in the Bill == After reading thru the contents of the bill, it seems to be thrown together without deep thought or sufficient discussion. The objective of setting up such a board seems to be primarily to register parties so that they can be eligible to handle CNII Projects. The definition of CNII itself is very vague and dubious. For this to stand up to scrutiny of law, the definition has to be very clear, with precise definitions and exclusions, with such a definition amounting to pages, not just ONE SENTENCE! And since this bill hinges on the definition of NCII, and since this definition is not clear, then this bill has little relevance! The justification for the Bill also display a lack of inputs from those actually practicing n the industry. The fact is that the technology changes so fast, and its adoption can be equally fast, and attempt to certify/regulate it via conventional bureaucratic means is impractical, either that or it will lead to stifling of knowledge and innovation, leaving Malaysia's behind in the globally competitive field of IT! Furthermore it will stifle innovation. This is mostly due the purely IP-based nature of the industry, where ideas and knowledge are the real capital, not goods, machinery and equipment (re: Scenario below) Lastly it is not quite clear what the role of the Board that is suppose to be setup IS! Is it (just) going to be a registry for parties wanting to bid for CNII jobs, or is it trying to be a professional body, like the MMA (for doctors), Bar Council (for lawyers) etc... It seems like it is trying to be a bit of both! As a professional body, the professionals that are involved should have more say; ie: the Board should not be ALL APPOINTEES but rather IT Professionals voted in by their peers. Its should also play a more strategic and perhaps even operational role to improve the standards and business opportunities of its members through business development activities and interaction with other like professional bodies overseas. If its just a registry, there there is no need to set up a board, just let a government department (MOSTI?) handle it, much like the registry for bumiputra companies bidding for government projects handled by the Treasury. Let the funds that would go towards supporting such a board be put to actual use in encouraging innovation in IT (see 7. below) Scenario: fictitious but very possible - Google invents a new programming language that leverages off it cloud infrastructure, and this language makes it highly productive to develop new applications that utilises very large databases. And they release this as Open Source. Overnight, a Malaysian programmer with the interest and underlying skills, can immediately download the software, access the documentation and start learning and experimenting with it. Within 2 weeks, he has gained sufficient proficiency with it and starts developing an application with it. Within 2-3 months he may have a prototype application running, demonstrating very viable and unique capabilities. Suddenly a CNII Project puts up a tender, say for Public Health, where his project has relevance (a good example would be to develop a National Database for every citizen's Health Record, such a project has been suggested the 'Lifelong Health Record' but never actualised). This programmer CANNOT participate because: i he personally may not be registered ii the software that he uses and the skills he has developed are not certifiable, its too NEW, and no one else in Malaysia has the capability to do so. So he gives up in frustration, takes his application to Silicon Valley, where investors welcome him with open arms, within 32 months his company with 100 staff goes public... Here, the programmer has taken a new technology, further innovated on it an created a new commercial product/service and it ended up overseas. Malaysia suffers another hit from self-inflicted Brain Drain. The above scenario is HIGHLY UNLIKELLY happen in another industry, why? Lets use another story from the aspect of the mechanical engineering industry, suppose someone somewhere invents a new type of internal combustion engine, that is 3 times more economical than the standard engine, such that a engine the size of a 2 shoeboxes can drive a standard car! Firstly, no Malaysian can copy its design, it would be very secretive and protected by many patents. In contrast, software has the concept of OPEN SOURCE which is quite unique to the IT industry! Even if one can obtain the rights to manufacture the engine, the cost of building a manufacturing plant is huge, and you will still have to pay royalties to the owner of the patents! Hence no local innovation or even benefit could be achieved. Hence there is strong argument for the IT industry to be handled differently
Re: [osdcmy] MOSTI: Stop Computing Professionals Bill 2011 (CPB2011)
sorry, some typos in the previos post.. paragrapgh 7 in Scenario, 1st sentence: The above scenario is HIGHLY UNLIKELLY to happen in another industry, why?.. paragrapgh 8 in Scenario, 1st sentence: Firstly, no Malaysian can ever copy its design, it would be very secretive and.. On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi, ..this is a long one, I have tried to logical but critical. .. Critique of the points in the Bill == After reading thru the contents of the bill, it seems to be thrown together without deep thought or sufficient discussion. The objective of setting up such a board seems to be primarily to register parties so that they can be eligible to handle CNII Projects. The definition of CNII itself is very vague and dubious. For this to stand up to scrutiny of law, the definition has to be very clear, with precise definitions and exclusions, with such a definition amounting to pages, not just ONE SENTENCE! And since this bill hinges on the definition of NCII, and since this definition is not clear, then this bill has little relevance! The justification for the Bill also display a lack of inputs from those actually practicing n the industry. The fact is that the technology changes so fast, and its adoption can be equally fast, and attempt to certify/regulate it via conventional bureaucratic means is impractical, either that or it will lead to stifling of knowledge and innovation, leaving Malaysia's behind in the globally competitive field of IT! Furthermore it will stifle innovation. This is mostly due the purely IP-based nature of the industry, where ideas and knowledge are the real capital, not goods, machinery and equipment (re: Scenario below) Lastly it is not quite clear what the role of the Board that is suppose to be setup IS! Is it (just) going to be a registry for parties wanting to bid for CNII jobs, or is it trying to be a professional body, like the MMA (for doctors), Bar Council (for lawyers) etc... It seems like it is trying to be a bit of both! As a professional body, the professionals that are involved should have more say; ie: the Board should not be ALL APPOINTEES but rather IT Professionals voted in by their peers. Its should also play a more strategic and perhaps even operational role to improve the standards and business opportunities of its members through business development activities and interaction with other like professional bodies overseas. If its just a registry, there there is no need to set up a board, just let a government department (MOSTI?) handle it, much like the registry for bumiputra companies bidding for government projects handled by the Treasury. Let the funds that would go towards supporting such a board be put to actual use in encouraging innovation in IT (see 7. below) Scenario: fictitious but very possible - Google invents a new programming language that leverages off it cloud infrastructure, and this language makes it highly productive to develop new applications that utilises very large databases. And they release this as Open Source. Overnight, a Malaysian programmer with the interest and underlying skills, can immediately download the software, access the documentation and start learning and experimenting with it. Within 2 weeks, he has gained sufficient proficiency with it and starts developing an application with it. Within 2-3 months he may have a prototype application running, demonstrating very viable and unique capabilities. Suddenly a CNII Project puts up a tender, say for Public Health, where his project has relevance (a good example would be to develop a National Database for every citizen's Health Record, such a project has been suggested the 'Lifelong Health Record' but never actualised). This programmer CANNOT participate because: i he personally may not be registered ii the software that he uses and the skills he has developed are not certifiable, its too NEW, and no one else in Malaysia has the capability to do so. So he gives up in frustration, takes his application to Silicon Valley, where investors welcome him with open arms, within 32 months his company with 100 staff goes public... Here, the programmer has taken a new technology, further innovated on it an created a new commercial product/service and it ended up overseas. Malaysia suffers another hit from self-inflicted Brain Drain. The above scenario is HIGHLY UNLIKELLY happen in another industry, why? Lets use another story from the aspect of the mechanical engineering industry, suppose someone somewhere invents a new type of internal combustion engine, that is 3 times more economical than the standard engine, such that a engine the size of a 2 shoeboxes can drive a standard car! Firstly, no Malaysian can copy its design, it would be very secretive and protected by many
[osdcmy] Serious Flaws of the Computer Professionals Bill,
hi, I am reposting this on its own separate thread, with changes to correct typos. (Its the same as the one in the other thread...) Feel free to comment and use its points... Critique of the points in the Bill == After reading thru the contents of the bill, it seems to be thrown together without deep thought or sufficient discussion. The objective of setting up such a Board seems to be primarily to register parties so that they can be eligible to handle CNII Projects. The definition of CNII itself is very vague and dubious. For this to stand up to scrutiny of law, the definition has to be very clear, with precise definitions and exclusions, with such a definition amounting to pages, not just ONE SENTENCE! And since this bill hinges on the definition of NCII, and since this definition is not clear, then this bill has little relevance! The justification for the Bill also display a lack of inputs from those actually practicing n the industry. The fact is that the technology changes so fast, and its adoption can be equally fast, and attempt to certify/regulate it via conventional bureaucratic means is impractical, either that or it will lead to stifling of knowledge and innovation, leaving Malaysia's behind in the globally competitive field of IT! IT is driven almost purely by its IP-based nature, where ideas and knowledge are the real capital, not goods, machinery and equipment. Having to be certified (to seek permission!) in order to learn, 'play with it' and use it will serious slow innovation, soemthing Malaysia can hardly afford in a globally competitive world! (re: Scenario below) Lastly it is not quite clear what the role of the Board that is suppose to be setup IS! Is it (just) going to be a registry for parties wanting to bid for CNII jobs, or is it trying to be a professional body, like the MMA (for doctors), Bar Council (for lawyers) etc... It seems like it is trying to be a bit of both! As a professional body, the professionals that are involved should have more say; ie: the Board should not be ALL APPOINTEES but rather IT Professionals voted in by their peers. Its should also play a more strategic and perhaps even operational role to improve the standards and business opportunities of its members through business development activities and interaction with other like professional bodies overseas. If its just a registry, there there is no need to set up a board, just let a government department (MOSTI?) handle it, much like the registry for bumiputra companies bidding for government projects handled by the Treasury. Let the funds that would go towards supporting such a board be put to actual use in encouraging innovation in IT (see 7. below) Scenario: fictitious but very possible (or why the Bill seriously hampers innovation) --- Google invents a new programming language (and tools) that leverages off its cloud infrastructure, and this language makes it highly productive to develop new applications that utilises very large databases. And they release this as Open Source. Overnight, a Malaysian programmer with the interest and underlying skills, can immediately download the software, access the documentation and start learning and experimenting with it. Within 2 weeks, he has gained sufficient proficiency with it and starts developing an application with it. Within 2-3 months he may have a prototype application running, demonstrating very viable and unique capabilities. Suddenly a CNII Project puts up a tender, say for Public Health, where his project has relevance (a good example would be to develop a National Database for every citizen's Health Record, such a project has been suggested the 'Lifelong Health Record' but never actualised). This programmer CANNOT participate because: i he personally may not be registered ii the software that he uses and the skills he has developed are not certifiable, its too NEW, and no one else in Malaysia has the capability to do so. So he gives up in frustration, takes his application to Silicon Valley, where investors welcome him with open arms, within 32 months his company with 100 staff goes public... Here, the programmer has taken a new technology, further innovated on it an created a new commercial product/service and it ended up overseas. Malaysia suffers another hit from self-inflicted Brain Drain. The above scenario is HIGHLY UNLIKELLY to happen in another industry, why? Lets use another story from the aspect of the mechanical engineering industry, suppose someone somewhere invents a new type of internal combustion engine, that is 3 times more economical than the standard engine, such that a engine the size of a 2 shoeboxes can drive a standard car! Firstly, no Malaysian can ever copy its design, it would be very secretive and protected by many patents. In contrast, software has the concept of OPEN SOURCE which is quite unique to the IT industry! Even if
[osdcmy] Re: Serious Flaws of the Computer Professionals Bill,
That and 1) What type of certification? Is it ala CCNA? or MSCE? If so does it mean a lot of open source project are not allowed to be used 2) Even if CNII is just govt, so does it mean that individual cannot contribute to open source project it use? I.E it covers Info Comm. So hypothetically we as a malaysian cannot contribute to apache web server, and the Big G do have sites that uses apache, fyi 3) So as we register a skill, how granular is it? In python web development, we are usually need to handle multiple role. If we modify wsgi script? Do we tell them we know networking etc? If we are to work in CNII, and it depends on how granular it is. On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Boh Yap bhy...@gmail.com wrote: hi, I am reposting this on its own separate thread, with changes to correct typos. (Its the same as the one in the other thread...) Feel free to comment and use its points... Critique of the points in the Bill == After reading thru the contents of the bill, it seems to be thrown together without deep thought or sufficient discussion. The objective of setting up such a Board seems to be primarily to register parties so that they can be eligible to handle CNII Projects. The definition of CNII itself is very vague and dubious. For this to stand up to scrutiny of law, the definition has to be very clear, with precise definitions and exclusions, with such a definition amounting to pages, not just ONE SENTENCE! And since this bill hinges on the definition of NCII, and since this definition is not clear, then this bill has little relevance! The justification for the Bill also display a lack of inputs from those actually practicing n the industry. The fact is that the technology changes so fast, and its adoption can be equally fast, and attempt to certify/regulate it via conventional bureaucratic means is impractical, either that or it will lead to stifling of knowledge and innovation, leaving Malaysia's behind in the globally competitive field of IT! IT is driven almost purely by its IP-based nature, where ideas and knowledge are the real capital, not goods, machinery and equipment. Having to be certified (to seek permission!) in order to learn, 'play with it' and use it will serious slow innovation, soemthing Malaysia can hardly afford in a globally competitive world! (re: Scenario below) Lastly it is not quite clear what the role of the Board that is suppose to be setup IS! Is it (just) going to be a registry for parties wanting to bid for CNII jobs, or is it trying to be a professional body, like the MMA (for doctors), Bar Council (for lawyers) etc... It seems like it is trying to be a bit of both! As a professional body, the professionals that are involved should have more say; ie: the Board should not be ALL APPOINTEES but rather IT Professionals voted in by their peers. Its should also play a more strategic and perhaps even operational role to improve the standards and business opportunities of its members through business development activities and interaction with other like professional bodies overseas. If its just a registry, there there is no need to set up a board, just let a government department (MOSTI?) handle it, much like the registry for bumiputra companies bidding for government projects handled by the Treasury. Let the funds that would go towards supporting such a board be put to actual use in encouraging innovation in IT (see 7. below) Scenario: fictitious but very possible (or why the Bill seriously hampers innovation) --- Google invents a new programming language (and tools) that leverages off its cloud infrastructure, and this language makes it highly productive to develop new applications that utilises very large databases. And they release this as Open Source. Overnight, a Malaysian programmer with the interest and underlying skills, can immediately download the software, access the documentation and start learning and experimenting with it. Within 2 weeks, he has gained sufficient proficiency with it and starts developing an application with it. Within 2-3 months he may have a prototype application running, demonstrating very viable and unique capabilities. Suddenly a CNII Project puts up a tender, say for Public Health, where his project has relevance (a good example would be to develop a National Database for every citizen's Health Record, such a project has been suggested the 'Lifelong Health Record' but never actualised). This programmer CANNOT participate because: i he personally may not be registered ii the software that he uses and the skills he has developed are not certifiable, its too NEW, and no one else in Malaysia has the capability to do so. So he gives up in frustration, takes his application to Silicon Valley, where investors welcome him with open arms, within 32 months his company with 100 staff
