[OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
A good place to start for sure Harrison! When I was working on the chapter on complexity for the upcoming book on Dialogic Organization Development, I went through the bibliographies of people who work with complexity and organizations (Meg Wheatley, Ralph Stacey, Harrison Owen, Uri Merry, Frances Westley). The books you reference appeared in all of them. A couple others: Mitchell Waldrop’s Complexity, which is a great history of the birth of the Sante Fe Institute. Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is also widely referenced. He doesn’t talk about self-organization but he sure describes it! Interestingly, Gregory Bateson was also widely read. Peggy _ Peggy Holman pe...@peggyholman.com mailto:pe...@peggyholman.com Twitter: @peggyholman The Open Circle Company 15347 SE 49th Place Bellevue, WA 98006 425-746-6274 www.peggyholman.com http://www.peggyholman.com/ Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/ Check out my series on what's emerging in the news information ecosystem http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: John – the literature on self organization is massive, and to be honest a number of years have passed since I felt myself to be marginally informed. That said, there are three books that I found to be most helpful, and all – to the best of my knowledge – are still in print. In historical order they are: “Order out of Chaos,” Ilya Prigogine, “Chaos,” James Gleick, and “At home in the Universe” Stuart Kauffmann. I would suggest starting with “Chaos” – which is the best written and pulls together lots of wonderful strands. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com x-msg://80/%20www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com x-msg://80/www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of John Baxter via OSList Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 10:49 PM To: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Great idea Daniel Stigmergy I am familiar with (from Mark et al from Collabforge in Melbourne - did his PhD on stigmergy and collaboration! Public book in the works now), but I know there is much more there. The main references to self organisation in the sciences I have come across so far, I have not been able to track down due to being out of print and the like... Tracking down such refs and mapping the gems from them is exactly the kind of thing I imagine myself doing over summer. I've now saved those links to my reference list : ) If anyone can recommend a good primer or iconic text in self-org systems from the sciences (or otherwise) I'd appreciate your recommendation. Cheers John Baxter Cocreation Consultant CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator jsbaxter.com.au http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/ | CoCreateADL.com http://cocreateadl.com/ 0405 447 829 | @jsbaxter_ http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_ Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City Grill! Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ http://cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: There are many well-established words that are used to more precisely discuss self organization in the biological and social sciences. I wonder if actively using some of these well-defined words might be helpful in the discussion. Example: stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy Stigmergy is a mechanism of indirect coordination between agents or actions. The principle is that the trace left in the environment by an action stimulates the performance of a next action, by the same or a different agent. More details http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/Stigmergy.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/Stigmergy.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/StigmergyAndSelf.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/StigmergyAndSelf.html
Re: [OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
Peggy -- The reading list does go on! Actually my favorite, in terms of just a good read is “Out of Control” done by the used-to-be editor of Wired. Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Peggy Holman via OSList Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 1:34 PM To: Open Listserv Subject: [OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' A good place to start for sure Harrison! When I was working on the chapter on complexity for the upcoming book on Dialogic Organization Development, I went through the bibliographies of people who work with complexity and organizations (Meg Wheatley, Ralph Stacey, Harrison Owen, Uri Merry, Frances Westley). The books you reference appeared in all of them. A couple others: Mitchell Waldrop’s Complexity, which is a great history of the birth of the Sante Fe Institute. Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is also widely referenced. He doesn’t talk about self-organization but he sure describes it! Interestingly, Gregory Bateson was also widely read. Peggy _ Peggy Holman pe...@peggyholman.com Twitter: @peggyholman The Open Circle Company 15347 SE 49th Place Bellevue, WA 98006 425-746-6274 www.peggyholman.com http://www.peggyholman.com/ Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/ into Opportunity http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system Check out my series on what's emerging in the news information ecosystem On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: John – the literature on self organization is massive, and to be honest a number of years have passed since I felt myself to be marginally informed. That said, there are three books that I found to be most helpful, and all – to the best of my knowledge – are still in print. In historical order they are: “Order out of Chaos,” Ilya Prigogine, “Chaos,” James Gleick, and “At home in the Universe” Stuart Kauffmann. I would suggest starting with “Chaos” – which is the best written and pulls together lots of wonderful strands. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com x-msg://80/%20www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com x-msg://80/www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of John Baxter via OSList Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 10:49 PM To: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Great idea Daniel Stigmergy I am familiar with (from Mark et al from Collabforge in Melbourne - did his PhD on stigmergy and collaboration! Public book in the works now), but I know there is much more there. The main references to self organisation in the sciences I have come across so far, I have not been able to track down due to being out of print and the like... Tracking down such refs and mapping the gems from them is exactly the kind of thing I imagine myself doing over summer. I've now saved those links to my reference list : ) If anyone can recommend a good primer or iconic text in self-org systems from the sciences (or otherwise) I'd appreciate your recommendation. Cheers John Baxter Cocreation Consultant CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/ jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com http://cocreateadl.com/ 0405 447 829 | @ http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_ jsbaxter_ Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City Grill! Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: There are many well-established words that are used to more precisely discuss self organization in the biological and social sciences. I wonder if actively using some of these well-defined words might be helpful in the discussion. Example: stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy Stigmergy is a mechanism of indirect coordination between agents or actions. The principle is that the trace left in the environment by an action
[OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
Harrison kindly pointed out to me that I sent the following message only to him, and not all, so here it is again. :) Julie -- Forwarded message -- From: Julie Smith jsm...@mosquitonet.com Date: Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net Dear Harrison ~ I can see how we could legitimately refer to gangs as “brothers” in the very same way that Thich Nhat Hahn wrote about pirates in Call Me By My True Names (http://www.quietspaces.com/poemHanh.html), but if we look around and see that we are, indeed, careening toward mutual self-destruction, we might also see that it is imperative that we find out what is happening, and why, and what we might do about it. And we should probably do that before it is too late. Ken Wilber raised awareness of many useful ideas, among them research related to adult human development. Wilber was reluctant to talk about “higher” and “lower” development because people resist those kinds of ideas. We are in a time when egalitarian points of views hold much sway. But he defined “higher” and “lower” in a way that may be useful to this discussion. Wilber said any of us can easily recognize “higher” human development because “higher” development always reflects an embrace of more: more humanity, more beings, more of all. So a person who cares about himself is at one level, at a higher level she cares about family, then community, then nation, then world, then planet. Something like that. So call a gang “brothers” if you like, but those “brothers” are killing others of our brothers and sisters and children. This is not neutral. It is wrong. Wrong for those who are being killed, and wrong for those doing the killing. It is a sickness. The sickness is rooted in other sickness that permeates our world, and all of it needs to be addressed. The only being that can address it is us, understanding and acting as everybody-all-at-once. Julie On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:54 AM, Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net wrote: Julie – I rather suspect that self organization covers a much larger territory than the more limited range of preferred outcomes we might choose. Gangs and Cancer would be cases in point. What you call a gang, I might call “brothers.” And were you to interview a cancer cell, I suspect it would report that it was doing just what it was supposed to. Both gangs and cancer are very much a part of what we call “Life,” even if that Life does not proceed exactly as we might wish it to. And it is all self organizing, I do believe. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Julie Smith via OSList *Sent:* Monday, December 01, 2014 2:35 AM *To:* John Baxter; World wide Open Space Technology email list *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Hi John ~ The more I’ve been thinking about the relationship between self-organizing with self-correcting and self-rightening, the more complex it all looks. Take cancer for example, or gangs. Are these both examples of self-organization? Self-organization that is destructive (not self-correcting or self-rightening) rather than constructive? So maybe self-organizing is not inherently good, but is only good if done in a way that is self-rightening and self-correcting? As for Adi Da’s use of the term “system”, note that he talks about bits of the system in 6.2 and then references the system as a totality in 6.6. This essay is about the bits interfering with the totality. Exactly like cancer, or gangs. This fragmentation of bits in opposition to the totality is a key aspect of what there is to understand. In another part of the book, Adi Da says “fragmentation leaves people open to being controlled and manipulated…. fragmentation is what power-seekers exploit….” The totality of humankind has not yet recognized itself (ourselves) as a single system. We, everybody-all-at-once, do not yet see ourselves as a single totality, a single system. Because we are not acting as a single system, we have not yet identified the rules and accountability that would enable our continued co-existence. *Not-Two Is Peace* was written to help us see humanity as a single system that has the power and the responsibility to act for the common good. If we don’t participate in this expanding awareness and responsibility, we will continue careening downhill with a stave in the wheels, headed toward destruction. My comments are my best understanding in this moment, but they fall far short of the
[OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
A good place to start for sure Harrison! When I was working on the chapter on complexity for the upcoming book on Dialogic Organization Development, I went through the bibliographies of people who work with complexity and organizations (Meg Wheatley, Ralph Stacey, Harrison Owen, Uri Merry, Frances Westley). The books you reference appeared in all of them. A couple others: Mitchell Waldrop’s Complexity, which is a great history of the birth of the Sante Fe Institute. Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is also widely referenced. He doesn’t talk about self-organization but he sure describes it! Interestingly, Gregory Bateson was also widely read. Peggy _ Peggy Holman pe...@peggyholman.com mailto:pe...@peggyholman.com Twitter: @peggyholman The Open Circle Company 15347 SE 49th Place Bellevue, WA 98006 425-746-6274 www.peggyholman.com http://www.peggyholman.com/ Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/ Check out my series on what's emerging in the news information ecosystem http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: John – the literature on self organization is massive, and to be honest a number of years have passed since I felt myself to be marginally informed. That said, there are three books that I found to be most helpful, and all – to the best of my knowledge – are still in print. In historical order they are: “Order out of Chaos,” Ilya Prigogine, “Chaos,” James Gleick, and “At home in the Universe” Stuart Kauffmann. I would suggest starting with “Chaos” – which is the best written and pulls together lots of wonderful strands. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com x-msg://80/%20www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com x-msg://80/www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of John Baxter via OSList Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 10:49 PM To: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Great idea Daniel Stigmergy I am familiar with (from Mark et al from Collabforge in Melbourne - did his PhD on stigmergy and collaboration! Public book in the works now), but I know there is much more there. The main references to self organisation in the sciences I have come across so far, I have not been able to track down due to being out of print and the like... Tracking down such refs and mapping the gems from them is exactly the kind of thing I imagine myself doing over summer. I've now saved those links to my reference list : ) If anyone can recommend a good primer or iconic text in self-org systems from the sciences (or otherwise) I'd appreciate your recommendation. Cheers John Baxter Cocreation Consultant CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator jsbaxter.com.au http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/ | CoCreateADL.com http://cocreateadl.com/ 0405 447 829 | @jsbaxter_ http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_ Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City Grill! Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ http://cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: There are many well-established words that are used to more precisely discuss self organization in the biological and social sciences. I wonder if actively using some of these well-defined words might be helpful in the discussion. Example: stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy Stigmergy is a mechanism of indirect coordination between agents or actions. The principle is that the trace left in the environment by an action stimulates the performance of a next action, by the same or a different agent. More details http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/Stigmergy.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/Stigmergy.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/StigmergyAndSelf.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/StigmergyAndSelf.html
Re: [OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
Peggy -- The reading list does go on! Actually my favorite, in terms of just a good read is “Out of Control” done by the used-to-be editor of Wired. Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Peggy Holman via OSList Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 1:34 PM To: Open Listserv Subject: [OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' A good place to start for sure Harrison! When I was working on the chapter on complexity for the upcoming book on Dialogic Organization Development, I went through the bibliographies of people who work with complexity and organizations (Meg Wheatley, Ralph Stacey, Harrison Owen, Uri Merry, Frances Westley). The books you reference appeared in all of them. A couple others: Mitchell Waldrop’s Complexity, which is a great history of the birth of the Sante Fe Institute. Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is also widely referenced. He doesn’t talk about self-organization but he sure describes it! Interestingly, Gregory Bateson was also widely read. Peggy _ Peggy Holman pe...@peggyholman.com Twitter: @peggyholman The Open Circle Company 15347 SE 49th Place Bellevue, WA 98006 425-746-6274 www.peggyholman.com http://www.peggyholman.com/ Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/ into Opportunity http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system Check out my series on what's emerging in the news information ecosystem On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: John – the literature on self organization is massive, and to be honest a number of years have passed since I felt myself to be marginally informed. That said, there are three books that I found to be most helpful, and all – to the best of my knowledge – are still in print. In historical order they are: “Order out of Chaos,” Ilya Prigogine, “Chaos,” James Gleick, and “At home in the Universe” Stuart Kauffmann. I would suggest starting with “Chaos” – which is the best written and pulls together lots of wonderful strands. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com x-msg://80/%20www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com x-msg://80/www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of John Baxter via OSList Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 10:49 PM To: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Great idea Daniel Stigmergy I am familiar with (from Mark et al from Collabforge in Melbourne - did his PhD on stigmergy and collaboration! Public book in the works now), but I know there is much more there. The main references to self organisation in the sciences I have come across so far, I have not been able to track down due to being out of print and the like... Tracking down such refs and mapping the gems from them is exactly the kind of thing I imagine myself doing over summer. I've now saved those links to my reference list : ) If anyone can recommend a good primer or iconic text in self-org systems from the sciences (or otherwise) I'd appreciate your recommendation. Cheers John Baxter Cocreation Consultant CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/ jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com http://cocreateadl.com/ 0405 447 829 | @ http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_ jsbaxter_ Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City Grill! Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: There are many well-established words that are used to more precisely discuss self organization in the biological and social sciences. I wonder if actively using some of these well-defined words might be helpful in the discussion. Example: stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy Stigmergy is a mechanism of indirect coordination between agents or actions. The principle is that the trace left in the environment by an action
[OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
Harrison kindly pointed out to me that I sent the following message only to him, and not all, so here it is again. :) Julie -- Forwarded message -- From: Julie Smith jsm...@mosquitonet.com Date: Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net Dear Harrison ~ I can see how we could legitimately refer to gangs as “brothers” in the very same way that Thich Nhat Hahn wrote about pirates in Call Me By My True Names (http://www.quietspaces.com/poemHanh.html), but if we look around and see that we are, indeed, careening toward mutual self-destruction, we might also see that it is imperative that we find out what is happening, and why, and what we might do about it. And we should probably do that before it is too late. Ken Wilber raised awareness of many useful ideas, among them research related to adult human development. Wilber was reluctant to talk about “higher” and “lower” development because people resist those kinds of ideas. We are in a time when egalitarian points of views hold much sway. But he defined “higher” and “lower” in a way that may be useful to this discussion. Wilber said any of us can easily recognize “higher” human development because “higher” development always reflects an embrace of more: more humanity, more beings, more of all. So a person who cares about himself is at one level, at a higher level she cares about family, then community, then nation, then world, then planet. Something like that. So call a gang “brothers” if you like, but those “brothers” are killing others of our brothers and sisters and children. This is not neutral. It is wrong. Wrong for those who are being killed, and wrong for those doing the killing. It is a sickness. The sickness is rooted in other sickness that permeates our world, and all of it needs to be addressed. The only being that can address it is us, understanding and acting as everybody-all-at-once. Julie On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:54 AM, Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net wrote: Julie – I rather suspect that self organization covers a much larger territory than the more limited range of preferred outcomes we might choose. Gangs and Cancer would be cases in point. What you call a gang, I might call “brothers.” And were you to interview a cancer cell, I suspect it would report that it was doing just what it was supposed to. Both gangs and cancer are very much a part of what we call “Life,” even if that Life does not proceed exactly as we might wish it to. And it is all self organizing, I do believe. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Julie Smith via OSList *Sent:* Monday, December 01, 2014 2:35 AM *To:* John Baxter; World wide Open Space Technology email list *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Hi John ~ The more I’ve been thinking about the relationship between self-organizing with self-correcting and self-rightening, the more complex it all looks. Take cancer for example, or gangs. Are these both examples of self-organization? Self-organization that is destructive (not self-correcting or self-rightening) rather than constructive? So maybe self-organizing is not inherently good, but is only good if done in a way that is self-rightening and self-correcting? As for Adi Da’s use of the term “system”, note that he talks about bits of the system in 6.2 and then references the system as a totality in 6.6. This essay is about the bits interfering with the totality. Exactly like cancer, or gangs. This fragmentation of bits in opposition to the totality is a key aspect of what there is to understand. In another part of the book, Adi Da says “fragmentation leaves people open to being controlled and manipulated…. fragmentation is what power-seekers exploit….” The totality of humankind has not yet recognized itself (ourselves) as a single system. We, everybody-all-at-once, do not yet see ourselves as a single totality, a single system. Because we are not acting as a single system, we have not yet identified the rules and accountability that would enable our continued co-existence. *Not-Two Is Peace* was written to help us see humanity as a single system that has the power and the responsibility to act for the common good. If we don’t participate in this expanding awareness and responsibility, we will continue careening downhill with a stave in the wheels, headed toward destruction. My comments are my best understanding in this moment, but they fall far short of the
[OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
A good place to start for sure Harrison! When I was working on the chapter on complexity for the upcoming book on Dialogic Organization Development, I went through the bibliographies of people who work with complexity and organizations (Meg Wheatley, Ralph Stacey, Harrison Owen, Uri Merry, Frances Westley). The books you reference appeared in all of them. A couple others: Mitchell Waldrop’s Complexity, which is a great history of the birth of the Sante Fe Institute. Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is also widely referenced. He doesn’t talk about self-organization but he sure describes it! Interestingly, Gregory Bateson was also widely read. Peggy _ Peggy Holman pe...@peggyholman.com mailto:pe...@peggyholman.com Twitter: @peggyholman The Open Circle Company 15347 SE 49th Place Bellevue, WA 98006 425-746-6274 www.peggyholman.com http://www.peggyholman.com/ Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/ Check out my series on what's emerging in the news information ecosystem http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: John – the literature on self organization is massive, and to be honest a number of years have passed since I felt myself to be marginally informed. That said, there are three books that I found to be most helpful, and all – to the best of my knowledge – are still in print. In historical order they are: “Order out of Chaos,” Ilya Prigogine, “Chaos,” James Gleick, and “At home in the Universe” Stuart Kauffmann. I would suggest starting with “Chaos” – which is the best written and pulls together lots of wonderful strands. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com x-msg://80/%20www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com x-msg://80/www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of John Baxter via OSList Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 10:49 PM To: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Great idea Daniel Stigmergy I am familiar with (from Mark et al from Collabforge in Melbourne - did his PhD on stigmergy and collaboration! Public book in the works now), but I know there is much more there. The main references to self organisation in the sciences I have come across so far, I have not been able to track down due to being out of print and the like... Tracking down such refs and mapping the gems from them is exactly the kind of thing I imagine myself doing over summer. I've now saved those links to my reference list : ) If anyone can recommend a good primer or iconic text in self-org systems from the sciences (or otherwise) I'd appreciate your recommendation. Cheers John Baxter Cocreation Consultant CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator jsbaxter.com.au http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/ | CoCreateADL.com http://cocreateadl.com/ 0405 447 829 | @jsbaxter_ http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_ Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City Grill! Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ http://cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: There are many well-established words that are used to more precisely discuss self organization in the biological and social sciences. I wonder if actively using some of these well-defined words might be helpful in the discussion. Example: stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy Stigmergy is a mechanism of indirect coordination between agents or actions. The principle is that the trace left in the environment by an action stimulates the performance of a next action, by the same or a different agent. More details http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/Stigmergy.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/Stigmergy.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/StigmergyAndSelf.html http://www.evolutionofcomputing.org/Multicellular/StigmergyAndSelf.html
Re: [OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
Peggy -- The reading list does go on! Actually my favorite, in terms of just a good read is “Out of Control” done by the used-to-be editor of Wired. Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Peggy Holman via OSList Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 1:34 PM To: Open Listserv Subject: [OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' A good place to start for sure Harrison! When I was working on the chapter on complexity for the upcoming book on Dialogic Organization Development, I went through the bibliographies of people who work with complexity and organizations (Meg Wheatley, Ralph Stacey, Harrison Owen, Uri Merry, Frances Westley). The books you reference appeared in all of them. A couple others: Mitchell Waldrop’s Complexity, which is a great history of the birth of the Sante Fe Institute. Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is also widely referenced. He doesn’t talk about self-organization but he sure describes it! Interestingly, Gregory Bateson was also widely read. Peggy _ Peggy Holman pe...@peggyholman.com Twitter: @peggyholman The Open Circle Company 15347 SE 49th Place Bellevue, WA 98006 425-746-6274 www.peggyholman.com http://www.peggyholman.com/ Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/ into Opportunity http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system Check out my series on what's emerging in the news information ecosystem On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Harrison Owen via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: John – the literature on self organization is massive, and to be honest a number of years have passed since I felt myself to be marginally informed. That said, there are three books that I found to be most helpful, and all – to the best of my knowledge – are still in print. In historical order they are: “Order out of Chaos,” Ilya Prigogine, “Chaos,” James Gleick, and “At home in the Universe” Stuart Kauffmann. I would suggest starting with “Chaos” – which is the best written and pulls together lots of wonderful strands. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com x-msg://80/%20www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com x-msg://80/www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org From: OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of John Baxter via OSList Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 10:49 PM To: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Great idea Daniel Stigmergy I am familiar with (from Mark et al from Collabforge in Melbourne - did his PhD on stigmergy and collaboration! Public book in the works now), but I know there is much more there. The main references to self organisation in the sciences I have come across so far, I have not been able to track down due to being out of print and the like... Tracking down such refs and mapping the gems from them is exactly the kind of thing I imagine myself doing over summer. I've now saved those links to my reference list : ) If anyone can recommend a good primer or iconic text in self-org systems from the sciences (or otherwise) I'd appreciate your recommendation. Cheers John Baxter Cocreation Consultant CoCreate Adelaide Facilitator http://www.jsbaxter.com.au/ jsbaxter.com.au | CoCreateADL.com http://cocreateadl.com/ 0405 447 829 | @ http://twitter.com/jsbaxter_ jsbaxter_ Thank you to everyone who came, helped or spread the good word about City Grill! Summary and links: cocreateadl.com/localgov/grill-summary/ On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList oslist@lists.openspacetech.org wrote: There are many well-established words that are used to more precisely discuss self organization in the biological and social sciences. I wonder if actively using some of these well-defined words might be helpful in the discussion. Example: stigmergy https://www.google.com/search?q=define+stigmergy Stigmergy is a mechanism of indirect coordination between agents or actions. The principle is that the trace left in the environment by an action
[OSList] Fwd: Summer research project idea: 'self organisation'
Harrison kindly pointed out to me that I sent the following message only to him, and not all, so here it is again. :) Julie -- Forwarded message -- From: Julie Smith jsm...@mosquitonet.com Date: Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' To: Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net Dear Harrison ~ I can see how we could legitimately refer to gangs as “brothers” in the very same way that Thich Nhat Hahn wrote about pirates in Call Me By My True Names (http://www.quietspaces.com/poemHanh.html), but if we look around and see that we are, indeed, careening toward mutual self-destruction, we might also see that it is imperative that we find out what is happening, and why, and what we might do about it. And we should probably do that before it is too late. Ken Wilber raised awareness of many useful ideas, among them research related to adult human development. Wilber was reluctant to talk about “higher” and “lower” development because people resist those kinds of ideas. We are in a time when egalitarian points of views hold much sway. But he defined “higher” and “lower” in a way that may be useful to this discussion. Wilber said any of us can easily recognize “higher” human development because “higher” development always reflects an embrace of more: more humanity, more beings, more of all. So a person who cares about himself is at one level, at a higher level she cares about family, then community, then nation, then world, then planet. Something like that. So call a gang “brothers” if you like, but those “brothers” are killing others of our brothers and sisters and children. This is not neutral. It is wrong. Wrong for those who are being killed, and wrong for those doing the killing. It is a sickness. The sickness is rooted in other sickness that permeates our world, and all of it needs to be addressed. The only being that can address it is us, understanding and acting as everybody-all-at-once. Julie On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:54 AM, Harrison Owen hho...@verizon.net wrote: Julie – I rather suspect that self organization covers a much larger territory than the more limited range of preferred outcomes we might choose. Gangs and Cancer would be cases in point. What you call a gang, I might call “brothers.” And were you to interview a cancer cell, I suspect it would report that it was doing just what it was supposed to. Both gangs and cancer are very much a part of what we call “Life,” even if that Life does not proceed exactly as we might wish it to. And it is all self organizing, I do believe. Harrison Winter Address 7808 River Falls Drive Potomac, MD 20854 301-365-2093 Summer Address 189 Beaucaire Ave. Camden, ME 04843 207-763-3261 Websites www.openspaceworld.com www.ho-image.com OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Julie Smith via OSList *Sent:* Monday, December 01, 2014 2:35 AM *To:* John Baxter; World wide Open Space Technology email list *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Summer research project idea: 'self organisation' Hi John ~ The more I’ve been thinking about the relationship between self-organizing with self-correcting and self-rightening, the more complex it all looks. Take cancer for example, or gangs. Are these both examples of self-organization? Self-organization that is destructive (not self-correcting or self-rightening) rather than constructive? So maybe self-organizing is not inherently good, but is only good if done in a way that is self-rightening and self-correcting? As for Adi Da’s use of the term “system”, note that he talks about bits of the system in 6.2 and then references the system as a totality in 6.6. This essay is about the bits interfering with the totality. Exactly like cancer, or gangs. This fragmentation of bits in opposition to the totality is a key aspect of what there is to understand. In another part of the book, Adi Da says “fragmentation leaves people open to being controlled and manipulated…. fragmentation is what power-seekers exploit….” The totality of humankind has not yet recognized itself (ourselves) as a single system. We, everybody-all-at-once, do not yet see ourselves as a single totality, a single system. Because we are not acting as a single system, we have not yet identified the rules and accountability that would enable our continued co-existence. *Not-Two Is Peace* was written to help us see humanity as a single system that has the power and the responsibility to act for the common good. If we don’t participate in this expanding awareness and responsibility, we will continue careening downhill with a stave in the wheels, headed toward destruction. My comments are my best understanding in this moment, but they fall far short of the
