Re: Microsoft BUILD / Windows 8

2011-09-17 Thread Scott Barnes
My thoughts:


   - Windows 8 is a grab bag of other ideas. I've been talking to a LOT of
   Microsoft Staffers past / present and they're a mixed bunch on this one. The
   feeling is at the core the OS has potential to do a lot but it still comes
   up short in comparison to the competitors - namely, Google OS, JavaScript
   Compilers via Goolgle, Apple iOS Perf Comparisons etc. Its hard to really
   pin down the specifics as they def know more about the inside mechanics of
   MOSH  suffice to say there is a very mixed opinion on its technical merits
   from the groups i've spoken to anyway.

   - Metro-Style or MOSH apps are not as polishes as they could be. The
   entire UI apps were done mostly by interns to abstract the secrecy from the
   rest of Microsoft staffers (leak prevention etc) and it somewhat shows (all
   the power to interns of course). The UI itself is practically a year or so
   old, and not much has been done it since its initial show  tell back then.
   There is also a huge departure in UX/UI Principles from the early days when
   Industrial Innovation Group put the original ideas to digital form (we saw
   sneak peaks of this via the Microsoft Health videos etc).

   - The term re-imagined is a little cheesy but bold imho. That is to say
   that its clear in a lot of ways that the iPad and iPhone have had strong
   influence in the imagination pipeline, so its really a case of taking an
   existing baseline and improving it for the sake of improvement at times
   (ie dragging the box left/right with one finger on hold and the other back
   and forth, great, you fixed a bug in iPhone UI?...but really? thats the
   golden WoW moment... ?? i was hoping for more of a anti-pattern here).

   - Its unclear how legacy plays a role going forward. Metro-Style apps
   live in a very secure lowbox area where they have limited access etc to your
   OS whilst at the same time the security is optimised mostly around Payment
   API's to verify you purchases the app (metro-anti-piracy). In order to
   inject legacy into the store is a little murky or unclear even though it was
   stated they will still play a role. It's also unclear on what this means
   going foward when you have Windows 7 apps working on Windows8 and is it
   a case of switching between the two Hyper-v layers (Appx vs Legacy) to get
   that running?

   - Speed Performance - Given the simplicty of the applications and UI so
   far, its kind of tongue in cheek thinking that speed now is lighting fast.
   More tests def need to be done specifically around how does the Operating
   System handle what we refer today as Windows Rot... as even with a fresh
   install of Windows things are snappy and fast. Its only over time you start
   getting additive variables and speed decrements or gets a bit heavy in
   parts. The UI is using a lot of vector so i can see why the emphasis is on
   hardware rendering and optimisation but also its fair to say the UI's at the
   moment via metro approach are attacking it from a let it breathe
   simplistic user interface design.

   - Trust us, use our templates. Hands up those who have never been burnt
   by Microsoft Templates / Code Gen in large scale situations or apps that
   have importance beyond quick dirty hello world. I'm nervous about this the
   most, in that its a case of don't think just use.this never ends well in
   the past (who knows new blood? new room for improvement?)

   - Silverlight / WPF Today. .NET 4.5 is unclear on how it increases perf
   other than a bit more threading automation. I'd be curious to see how
   existing apps can gain in perf here going forward and if its an actual fix
   to WPF or is it just a abstraction / token of faith fix. It's also very
   unclear the future of SIlverlight going forward especially while we wait 1-2
   years min for Win8 to start hitting consumer hands. Given Enterprise /
   Businesses don't adopt aggressively and that market conditions have
   significantly changed between Windows XP - Windows 7 transition how does
   one foresee Windows 8 working here? ...in that there's no duress upgrade
   here, unless they retract Windows 7 from sale at the time of Windows 8
   go-live?. Is it a case of Windows 8 being an addon to Windows 7?  no
   matter what, Silverlight appears to have end of life given majority of the
   staff have moved to different areas of Microsoft (most left) and lastly
   there's no mention of a vNext beyond Silverlight 5.

For me, there are way more Questions left on the table other than a
high-five for a technical preview (which was scheduled to be a beta not a
technical preview - so appears they're already behind on schedule).

Normally you'd let this slide if it was just an isolated product like
Silverlight, Access, IIS, VS etc.. but this is Windows!... the main flagship
product and for me it came off a little underwhelming in terms of
specifics... everyone's probably in a natural tech high, great, but at some

RE: Microsoft BUILD / Windows 8

2011-09-17 Thread Tony Wright
I have to agree with what you're saying about flicking between apps. And
you've got a tablet - it's even harder with a mouse!

 

As far as I can tell, you have to go so close to the left border of the
desktop and then it seems to only show the previous view/app you were using.
I would have thought it would show all the apps that you currently have
activated (but are probably suspended) allowing you to slide between the
various apps.

 

Also, it took me a while to figure out that the start button was still
available because it was so far down in the bottom left corner that I'm
surprised I actually stumbled across it with the mouse.

 

I know it's early days and it's designed for touch - but I'm worried it's
going to upset a lot of people if they don't work out how to make that more
intuitive. There's is a lot of existing hardware that it's going to have to
run on that is not touch ready.

 

T.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of David Burela
Sent: Saturday, 17 September 2011 5:54 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Microsoft BUILD / Windows 8

 

For those wanting to play with it inside a virtual machine, i'd recommend
you instead boot directly into Win8 as a VHD instead.

Here is a guide from Scott Hanselman

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/GuideToInstallingAndBootingWindows8DeveloperPr
eviewOffAVHDVirtualHardDisk.aspx

 

 

One of those annoying things I'm finding with the new tile interface, is
trying to swap from one app to another. You need to keep flicking your
finger from the left to cycle through the apps. It makes it really difficult
to know if your app is still actually in the back stack, or where exactly it
is. I keep flicking through, cycling through twice only to discover that my
app isn't open any more, or I keep missing it and need to keep cycling
through again.

Having a way to switch apps with say, similar to how you can quick switch on
iOS would make it so much more functional.

 

-David Burela

On 16 September 2011 16:33, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

No, Win7 64 bit host. x64 Win8 preview.

 

On 16 September 2011 14:36, Winston Pang winstonp...@gmail.com wrote:

Grant, were you doing it on a 32bit host environment? installing the x64
Win8 preview build?

 

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

To get it working on VirtualBox (assuming you had the same unexpected
error that I got) you need to do this :

In the settings for your virtual box, motherboard tab, make sure you have
selected Enable IO APIC, then on the Processor tab, make sure Enable
PAE/NX is selected.

 

I have also read somewhere that people are having trouble getting the
networking to work properly. I didn't have this issue but the current wisdom
for this is to go into settings and on Network-Adapter1-Advanced choose the
generic (Intel PRO/1000 MT) network card.

 

Hope that helps

 

Grant

On 16 September 2011 14:19, Winston Pang winstonp...@gmail.com wrote:

Ah, nice, thanks Ken, I was using virtual box, but it crapped itself. So I
thought it  was across the board.

 

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

Applications like VMWare Workstation will let you run 64bit VMs even if the
host OS is 32bit

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Winston Pang
Sent: Friday, 16 September 2011 10:58 AM


To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Microsoft BUILD / Windows 8

 

Man it totally sucks.

 

I wanted to install x64 on a VM but forgot that my current install of
windows is 32bit, so it wont run the Windows 8 x64 version, which is the
only version that has the VS2011 express dev tools, GAHHH

 

And that link requires MSDN subscription only.

 

 

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 12:01 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com
wrote:

Please also play around with the developer tools, I'd suggest downloading
the Visual Studio 11 Developer Preview
(http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jasonz/archive/2011/09/14/announcing-visual-studio-
11-developer-preview.aspx) over the Express edition.

 

One thing you should be aware of is that we only have a certain amount of
time to react to feedback before the Beta - so please, please tell us what
you think.

 

Although Windows 8 seems to be getting the most attention, if you use TFS,
there's a bunch of goodness in this release which I've been dogfooding for
the past 6 months; Agile tools to manage stories and tasks, My Work which is
basically a Pending changes on steroids, and a new built-in Code Review
tool.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 6:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Microsoft BUILD / Windows 8

 

I installed it on my Asus eee slate last night. First attempt left me in an
endless boot loop telling me there was a problem. Maybe it was because I
installed it in a pub? Backed up hard drive and formatted it,