RE: Expression Web
I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -Original Message- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K
Re: Expression Web
Moreover Adobe won.. really the core issue with Expression product line was it was built to take on Adobe to try and win over the hearts minds of designers to the Microsoft tribe. Its why you'll search anything related to Silverlight/WPF/Expression between 2007-2009 usually has an Adobe or Microsoft Evangelist (myself included) punching it out over who's got the biggest digital * ... Adobe won... and when it came down to justifying Expression Web's future it had little to do with actual adoption (which didnt size very well) and also the funding stream for the product got caught up in the MSDN ledger codes.. In that MSDN argued that BEFORE Expression products came online the subscribers existed therefore why should they splice off a portion of the funding to score in the Expression team's coffers? even though the download numbers were in millions... to them anyone who downloaded were just simply kicking the tyres not doing anything with it... so now the Expression team were left to not only ask for more funding (keep the lights on per say) as a product line but they also had weak if not any income stream to pull from (hence you saw those really weird deals with Expression Studio and Windows) to try and stimulate outside MSDN purchases. Then Bizspark also came along and annihilated any chance of a non-MSDN subscriber from buying the product given if you were a start-up Microsoft would just hand you the MSDN subscription for free if all you did was provide them with an ABN or LLC (US). Inside Microsoft there are no free products.. if you have $0 income you better be standing before an executive of some sort every 3months explaining how your product made another product's adoption rates spike a little. If you can't show positive revenue or influence (with evidence depending on how dumb the executive you brief - with us we found Steve B not as bright as people paint) then you better start getting your LinkedIn profile up to date or making better friendships with another division. (It could be different now with the re-org but i've not heard much in the way of difference... if anything its a little more crazy given the companies in this weird SteveB is out caretaker mode). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com wrote: I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K
Re: Expression Web
FYI: The Product Manager (just one) for Expression Web (Ed - previously Adobe Dreamweaver) was one of the smarterst minds in devdiv and the team writing the code behind that product were also equally up to the smarts.. so for me I always wondered why so much great talent got mothballed... The only thing that ruined Expression Web was the ass hats who control GPL codes for the company and devdiv vs Windows stupidity spilling over. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Moreover Adobe won.. really the core issue with Expression product line was it was built to take on Adobe to try and win over the hearts minds of designers to the Microsoft tribe. Its why you'll search anything related to Silverlight/WPF/Expression between 2007-2009 usually has an Adobe or Microsoft Evangelist (myself included) punching it out over who's got the biggest digital * ... Adobe won... and when it came down to justifying Expression Web's future it had little to do with actual adoption (which didnt size very well) and also the funding stream for the product got caught up in the MSDN ledger codes.. In that MSDN argued that BEFORE Expression products came online the subscribers existed therefore why should they splice off a portion of the funding to score in the Expression team's coffers? even though the download numbers were in millions... to them anyone who downloaded were just simply kicking the tyres not doing anything with it... so now the Expression team were left to not only ask for more funding (keep the lights on per say) as a product line but they also had weak if not any income stream to pull from (hence you saw those really weird deals with Expression Studio and Windows) to try and stimulate outside MSDN purchases. Then Bizspark also came along and annihilated any chance of a non-MSDN subscriber from buying the product given if you were a start-up Microsoft would just hand you the MSDN subscription for free if all you did was provide them with an ABN or LLC (US). Inside Microsoft there are no free products.. if you have $0 income you better be standing before an executive of some sort every 3months explaining how your product made another product's adoption rates spike a little. If you can't show positive revenue or influence (with evidence depending on how dumb the executive you brief - with us we found Steve B not as bright as people paint) then you better start getting your LinkedIn profile up to date or making better friendships with another division. (It could be different now with the re-org but i've not heard much in the way of difference... if anything its a little more crazy given the companies in this weird SteveB is out caretaker mode). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com wrote: I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K
Re: Expression Web
Interesting point of history - expression web used to be called..drum roll Microsoft FrontPage. On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: FYI: The Product Manager (just one) for Expression Web (Ed - previously Adobe Dreamweaver) was one of the smarterst minds in devdiv and the team writing the code behind that product were also equally up to the smarts.. so for me I always wondered why so much great talent got mothballed... The only thing that ruined Expression Web was the ass hats who control GPL codes for the company and devdiv vs Windows stupidity spilling over. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Moreover Adobe won.. really the core issue with Expression product line was it was built to take on Adobe to try and win over the hearts minds of designers to the Microsoft tribe. Its why you'll search anything related to Silverlight/WPF/Expression between 2007-2009 usually has an Adobe or Microsoft Evangelist (myself included) punching it out over who's got the biggest digital * ... Adobe won... and when it came down to justifying Expression Web's future it had little to do with actual adoption (which didnt size very well) and also the funding stream for the product got caught up in the MSDN ledger codes.. In that MSDN argued that BEFORE Expression products came online the subscribers existed therefore why should they splice off a portion of the funding to score in the Expression team's coffers? even though the download numbers were in millions... to them anyone who downloaded were just simply kicking the tyres not doing anything with it... so now the Expression team were left to not only ask for more funding (keep the lights on per say) as a product line but they also had weak if not any income stream to pull from (hence you saw those really weird deals with Expression Studio and Windows) to try and stimulate outside MSDN purchases. Then Bizspark also came along and annihilated any chance of a non-MSDN subscriber from buying the product given if you were a start-up Microsoft would just hand you the MSDN subscription for free if all you did was provide them with an ABN or LLC (US). Inside Microsoft there are no free products.. if you have $0 income you better be standing before an executive of some sort every 3months explaining how your product made another product's adoption rates spike a little. If you can't show positive revenue or influence (with evidence depending on how dumb the executive you brief - with us we found Steve B not as bright as people paint) then you better start getting your LinkedIn profile up to date or making better friendships with another division. (It could be different now with the re-org but i've not heard much in the way of difference... if anything its a little more crazy given the companies in this weird SteveB is out caretaker mode). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com wrote: I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K -- w: http://jcooney.net t: @josephcooney
Re: Code commenting
If it was hard to write it should be hard to read :) Why comment? On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Davy Jones djones...@gmail.com wrote: Hello If you are doing this in code. It points to the fact that someone is not pulling their weight. Code should not have comments. If you need them to explain something, the code is too complex. If you add them so modifications on one bit of code come back to you so you can fix. Make it simpler. If you add them to Blame later, you should be doing peer reviewed checkins to bring everyone up to the same level. If you are commenting code because it might be useful later. Delete it! That is what source control is for. There is no excuse for comments in code. Davy Sent from my starfleet datapad. On 13 sept. 2013, at 08:56, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: Blame is a useful tool, ofttimes though, I'd call it credit. For instance, you receive a crashdump from an old version, it shows you where the app crashed, and maybe you have a slight idea why. Use blame on a current version, look at changes around the crash line and you've got a lot of the info you might need to generate a hotfix. With all the caveats that hotfixes imply :) If your devs are diligent linking the svn comment with a number from your CR system, that's another link. But I'd hate to see it actually present in the code. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.comwrote: A lot of source control systems give you that out of the box. I know Git and SVN both do with the BLAME command. I wouldn't want the comments scattered throughout the code. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:45 PM, anthonyatsmall...@mail.com wrote: Anyone suggest a method to autmaticlly comment code when lines have changed? Would be great to be able to see who changed what when viewing the code. ** ** At the moment,, we write comments like //xxMOD 12AUG13 XX=PROGRAMMER INITIALS ** ** WE use TFS but we like to write comments in code sometimes. Any extensions able to do this? ** ** Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Code commenting
Just run it thru an obfuscator before committing it On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.auwrote: If it was hard to write it should be hard to read :) Why comment? On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Davy Jones djones...@gmail.com wrote: Hello If you are doing this in code. It points to the fact that someone is not pulling their weight. Code should not have comments. If you need them to explain something, the code is too complex. If you add them so modifications on one bit of code come back to you so you can fix. Make it simpler. If you add them to Blame later, you should be doing peer reviewed checkins to bring everyone up to the same level. If you are commenting code because it might be useful later. Delete it! That is what source control is for. There is no excuse for comments in code. Davy Sent from my starfleet datapad. On 13 sept. 2013, at 08:56, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: Blame is a useful tool, ofttimes though, I'd call it credit. For instance, you receive a crashdump from an old version, it shows you where the app crashed, and maybe you have a slight idea why. Use blame on a current version, look at changes around the crash line and you've got a lot of the info you might need to generate a hotfix. With all the caveats that hotfixes imply :) If your devs are diligent linking the svn comment with a number from your CR system, that's another link. But I'd hate to see it actually present in the code. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.comwrote: A lot of source control systems give you that out of the box. I know Git and SVN both do with the BLAME command. I wouldn't want the comments scattered throughout the code. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:45 PM, anthonyatsmall...@mail.com wrote: Anyone suggest a method to autmaticlly comment code when lines have changed? Would be great to be able to see who changed what when viewing the code. ** ** At the moment,, we write comments like //xxMOD 12AUG13 XX=PROGRAMMER INITIALS ** ** WE use TFS but we like to write comments in code sometimes. Any extensions able to do this? ** ** Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Expression Web
Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this page http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expression the following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803 that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
Re: Expression Web
I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this pagehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expressionthe following points to a link that is not available today - ** ** Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. ** ** I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? -- **Ian Thomas** Victoria Park, Western Australia ** **
Dev looking for BA role
Hi guys, I'm an experienced Melbourne based .Net Developer that's looking to move across to the Business/Technical Analyst space. I just wonder if anyone would have an opening? I've got great analytical skills, great communication skills and have helped deliver different projects in different industries. I'll be a great BA that speaks your language and understands where you're coming from. Please contact me at michaelanderson...@hotmail.com Thanks Michael Anderson
RE: Expression Web
VS 2012 Update 2 adds RTM support for WPF + SL. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:42 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Expression Web I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.aumailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this pagehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expression the following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803 that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
