Re: [OT] New surface laptop

[Bec C]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2017, Tom Rutter  wrote:

> i5+, 8gb+ ram, 128gb+ ssd, win 10 pro, 13-15 inch, $1500-2000 max
>
>
 Try affordablelaptops.com.au. You'll get something way more powerful for
the price. They don't look very sexy though


>
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 9:47 AM, DotNet Dude  > wrote:
>
>> What are your requirements?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 3 July 2017, Tom Rutter > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hah didn't even notice that before you mentioned it. It's as if the
>>> designers did it just to make something wrong with the laptop. I've looked
>>> at so many laptops now that I'm over it all...
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 4:37 PM, DotNet Dude 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Have you seen where the power button is on the keyboard? Lol no thanks


 On Monday, 3 July 2017, Tom Rutter  wrote:

> Anyone got the new surface laptop? If so, thoughts?
> My old reliable dell laptop took its last breath today. :(
>
> Cheers
>

>>>
>

Re: [OT] New surface laptop

[Bec C]

No Dell ++

On Monday, 3 July 2017, Greg Harris  wrote:

> *Strong recommendation not a DELL!*
> DELL took my working machine, broke it in a service call and would not
> take responsibility for the breakage!
> They knew it was not worth my time to take it any further!
> Now I will never buy a DELL again!
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Tom Rutter  > wrote:
>
>> Anyone got the new surface laptop? If so, thoughts?
>> My old reliable dell laptop took its last breath today. :(
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
>

Re: Swashbuckle documentation

[Bec C]

Totally a stab in a dark here but perhaps your MockStuff class has to be
decorated with something before the "magic" code behind the scenes picks it
up.

On Tuesday, 27 June 2017, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> We are using it for our APIs and [FromBody] parameters are magically
>> appearing.
>>
>
> Yes, just like many articles suggest. Great example.
>
> You can see a sample of my problem here:
> https://www.orthogonal.net.au/pegwebapi/swagger/ui/index#!/
> Session/Session_MockMethod
>
> I've pasted below a picture of the controller source code method with a
> body parameter that doesn't appear in the output. What's different about
> your method? Are there any special annotations on the class in the body?
>
> Note that I had to write an IOperationFilter class to get the headers to
> appear in the output Parameters list, which was an obscure and tricky thing
> to uncover.
>
> Also note that I'm not using YAML to define the API, I'm documenting an
> existing API which they call the bottom-up approach.
>
> *GK*
>
> [image: Inline images 2]
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:

> Nope.
>
> If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have
> insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to
> lose ANY weight if you are only storing.
>
> To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able to
> append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can
> never delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.
>
> Insulin = store only.
>
> It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories
> were high carb/sugars. Try it.
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 12:01 pm, Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Never said a calorie is a calorie. Anyway try it, cut calories by like
> 300-500 a day and you will lose weight.
>
> Anyway this post was about sit stand desks...
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> 'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'
>
> Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar
> Film, or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic
> biochemistry (which is well established) *absolutely* disagrees with
> this. Fat, glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for
> metabolism, which makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself
> accused of being an invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film
> (admittedly a sample size of one) he puts on significant weight without
> changing total calorific intake, by swapping fat for sugar (and explains
> why).
>
> I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case
> Against Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The
> historical context is particularly damming.
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
> either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.
>
> Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.
>
> As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
> whole different thing.
>
> Anyway too off topic now
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>
> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
>
> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','step...@lythixdesigns.com');>> wrote:
>
> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost
> 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
> from the outside.
>
> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Never said a calorie is a calorie. Anyway try it, cut calories by like
300-500 a day and you will lose weight.

Anyway this post was about sit stand desks...

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'
>
> Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar
> Film, or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic
> biochemistry (which is well established) *absolutely* disagrees with
> this. Fat, glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for
> metabolism, which makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself
> accused of being an invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film
> (admittedly a sample size of one) he puts on significant weight without
> changing total calorific intake, by swapping fat for sugar (and explains
> why).
>
> I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case
> Against Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The
> historical context is particularly damming.
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
>> either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.
>>
>> Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.
>>
>> As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
>> whole different thing.
>>
>> Anyway too off topic now
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
>>> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
>>> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
>>> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
>>> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
>>> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
>>> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>>>
>>> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
>>> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lust
>>> ig-john-yudkin
>>>
>>> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>>>
>>> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>>>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some 
>>>>> .net
>>>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com,
>>>>> and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost
>>>>> 80lb and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his
>>>>> town keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. 
>>>>> Will
>>>>> be seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects
>>>>> of too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be
>>>>> seen from the outside.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was 
>>>>> running
>>>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>>>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>>>>> cheese.
>>>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>>>>> elist. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Fake news by Stephen

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:

> OOOTT:
> Controlling calories has no effect on weight loss. The simple reason for
> this is that the body adapts its energy usage based on the calories in. Not
> the other way around.
> Eat more calories and your body will waste more. Eat less and it will go
> into low power mode. If your body energy consumption did not change then
> yes, calories in would be a good way of controlling your weight. It
> doesn't.
> Confirmed through science experiments with mice. Feed them more, and they
> run around lots. Feed them less and they will become lethargic and not move
> much.
>
> Chris, I've been toying with that idea on occasionally carbing it up, as
> well as the occasional fasting. There's a guy named Dave Feldman (
> http://cholesterolcode.com/) who's essentially an IT guy who went keto
> and found his cholesterol blood test shot through the roof. Being a data
> guy (like many of us are) he proceeded to start collecting data to see the
> bigger picture. 150+ blood tests later (in 18 month period!) he found that
> altering your calories in would modify what your liver produced in a three
> day sliding window. Fascinating to read.
> I actually found the same thing. My doctor freaked out when my cholesterol
> shot up, so I did this experiment and ate 20,000 kilojoules per day for
> three days (it was a challenge!!) then had another blood test. My
> cholesterol dropped 13% from my blood test a week earlier. Not as much as
> I'd have liked but still proved the body is way more complicated and agile
> than people think. It adapts.
> Had a heart scan just to be sure and calcium score was zero, all normal.
>
> Shall we try to bring religion, politics and favourite operating systems
> into the thread next? :)
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');> <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>> on
> behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','piers.willi...@gmail.com');>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 June 2017 8:23:29 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>
> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>
> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
>
> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','step...@lythixdesigns.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>>> from the outside.
>>>
>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running
>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>&g

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read
either. I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.

Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.

As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a
whole different thing.

Anyway too off topic now

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans
> on this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy
> diets (due to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing
> inherent in veganism that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the
> vegan society pages confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/r
> esources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. Plenty of sugary treats in that list
> described as vegan, even beans on toast is packed with the stuff.
>
> It's *not* about the calories. https://www.theguard
> ian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
>
> OOTT= off off-topic topic
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','step...@lythixdesigns.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now
>>> (lost 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
>>> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
>>> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
>>> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
>>> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
>>> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
>>> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
>>> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
>>> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
>>> from the outside.
>>>
>>> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I
>>> forget to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running
>>> a bit late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and
>>> worked right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit
>>> of a drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
>>> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
>>> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
>>> cheese.
>>> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
>>> elist. :)
>>>
>>> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
>>> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
>>> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
>>> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
>>> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
>>> lose it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Stephen
>>> --
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>
>>> on behalf of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
>>> *To:* ozDotNet
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>>>
>>> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks.
>>> I sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health
>>> issues, but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality
>>> converters (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>>>
>>> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
>>> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
>>> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
>>> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>>>
>>> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating
>>>> insulin properly after 4

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Fine. Bloody sociopaths ruined the vegan diet for everyone

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:

> Rofl
> I think he finished something, not started it
>
> On 20 Jun. 2017 7:03 am, Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Lol don't start something
>
> On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, David Connors <da...@connors.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','da...@connors.com');>> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','da...@connors.com');>
>  | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>
>
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Lol don't start something

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, David Connors <da...@connors.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 at 08:29 Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
>> very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

[Bec C]

Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight,
very hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price  wrote:

> Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost
> 6kg in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net
> people may know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com, and
> he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb
> and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
> Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town
> keto for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be
> seeing the sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
> Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of
> too much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen
> from the outside.
>
> One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget
> to eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit
> late. Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked
> right through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a
> drive from places to eat. Barely noticed.
> Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently
> made deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan
> cheese.
> So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this
> elist. :)
>
> Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of
> those motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing
> weight. What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You
> can lose weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other
> reasons. I.e. Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you
> lose it.
>
> Cheers,
> Stephen
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
>  <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> > on
> behalf of Piers Williams  >
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results
>
> There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I
> sent a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues,
> but I think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters
> (Varidesk etc) that's really changed things.
>
> I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just
> concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having
> all meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up
> on (and cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.
>
> On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright"  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin
>> properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling
>> unwell/lethargic from sitting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter > > wrote:
>>
>>> Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for
>>> example)? If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright >> > wrote:
>>>
 Hi Tom,

 It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that
 I've been sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while.
 I'm not regretful for one second that I have the option.

 Regards,
 Tony

 On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter 
 wrote:

> Hey folks
>
> I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was
> interested in how people went with this setup. Did those that tried
> standing get any good (or bad) results? Are they still doing it or went
> back to only sitting?
>
> Cheers
>


>>

What are the WebDev technologies that any self respecting Dev should know these days?

[Bec C]

Melb market is also filled with Dynamics and Sitecore work.

But as .net dude said JS is where it's all at. I found it very hard to get
work in Melb with no Angular or React experience.

"Full stack" they usually want Angular or React, css, webapi, entity
framework, sql server.

On Friday, 16 June 2017, DotNet Dude > wrote:

> Hey Preet,
>
> Generally, Azure and JS frameworks like React and Angular is where "it" is
> mostly at these days as far as general .net wed dev goes. It also depends
> on location from my experience. I'm not familiar with the Auckland market
> at all. In Melbourne most of the maintenance work is in mvc, very little if
> any webforms, LOTS of Angular/React/whatever JS framework. Same for Sydney.
> Canberra is mostly webforms and mvc from what I know (govt is usually a bit
> behind), Qld and WA I am not sure about.
>
> If you're wanting to get back into web dev I would ask you why. Not
> joking. :) If your reason is because you want to update and get back into
> it I'd say go hard on Javascript. If you're after money I'd say forget all
> that and get into Salesforce lol. Kidding. Well not really. As I said
> earlier you need to know your market too if you're wanting to be valuable
> (hireable).
>
> Cheers
>
> On Friday, 16 June 2017, Preet Sangha  wrote:
>
>> Hi team,
>>
>> Got Friday OT question for you all.  I started .net with the beta and
>> used aspx all those years ago. I stayed with ASPX until about 2007 but
>> about then I moved into doing more desktop development. I'd really like to
>> dust off and polish my web dev skills but there seems to be a plethora of
>> things that have sort of past me by Azure, Javascript, Angular (?) to name
>> a few.
>>
>> I know that fair few of you do web dev so i was wondering what you could
>> advise as the must have skills today!
>>
>> Just to give you a history, from 2007 I did WCF/WF & WPF type stuff, from
>> 2010 I did more Cubes and SSRS BI stuff and for the past couple of years
>> I've been doing pure legacy desktop C++/CLI/.Net so not a lot of webbie
>> stuff at all :-)
>>
>>
>> regards,
>> Preet, in Auckland NZ
>>
>>

Re: [OT] HP Spectre x360 thoughts

[Bec C]

I don't know about them all being the about same. I haven't heard of any
other laptop recently give as much problems as the surface book. Perhaps
they're all about the same except the surface book ;p

On Friday, 16 December 2016, David Richards <ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com>
wrote:

> Sheesh!  talk about flamebait!
>
> I'm not going to pick a side in this.  What I will say is they are all
> essentially the same.  Both hardware and OS.  They all have their strengths
> and weaknesses.  Until recently, I had three (not including desktop PCs): A
> macbook pro running sierra and windows 10, an old (maybe 7-8 years) toshiba
> qosmio running windows 10 and linux (and has run 2 other versions of
> windows) and a very old hp tc1100 tablet (aka slate) running XP and linux
> that finally died after about 12 years I think.
>
> They all mostly work and do their job.  They all have annoying hardware
> problems that you just have to deal with.  They all have OS problems you
> just have to deal with.  They all have design flaws that make you wonder
> what the designers were thinking.  I'm sick of ridiculous DNS problems,
> baffling network problems, dodgy ports, dodgy drivers, advertising on my
> login screen and notifications, scare tactics by antivirus software, and
> having to look up simple tasks I rarely do because I've forgotten how to do
> them.
>
> Not one of them I would consider significantly better or worst than
> another that I could recommend for or against for "most" users.  Keep in
> mind I'm not comparing specs here, just the overall experience and
> fit-for-purpose. As Stephen said: "There is no perfect laptop...".
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
> On 16 December 2016 at 13:02, Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Wow full refund after 11 months???
>>
>> You can all say what you want but as I have always preached, the macbook
>> is the best laptop for most users including devs.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [OT] HP Spectre x360 thoughts

[Bec C]

Wow full refund after 11 months???

You can all say what you want but as I have always preached, the macbook is
the best laptop for most users including devs.

On Friday, 16 December 2016, Stephen Price 
wrote:

> I saw the mentions but figured people would be referring to the newer (and
> better) models of the Spectre x360.
>
>
> My daughter is using my old Spectre x360 and she loves it. I did buy a pen
> for it, as my daughter is doing an Illustrator/graphic design degree but
> the thing didn't work. My attempts to get their support to tell me if I had
> a faulty pen, or just the wrong pen for the laptop resulted in a fail. I
> got emails but no one called me. Just got too busy to spend an hour on the
> phone following it up. So from a support perspective I wasn't that
> impressed with HP.
>
> She does love the laptop though. Great battery life and I see her using it
> constantly.
>
>
> I had some issues with a Dell order (mainly with Startrack not delivering,
> and then damaging the package - fortunately it wasn't the XPS 13, it was
> just a charger and they finally got it to me after almost a month...)
>
> But the thing with Dell was they didn't ignore me. After purchase support
> is important, so I always buy the extra warranty. Nothing worse than it
> dying a month after the warranty and its cheaper to buy a whole new laptop
> than repair it.
>
>
> I also have a new 2016 MacBook Pro 15". Quite happy with it... It's my
> main take everywhere laptop, mainly as I want to get more familiar with the
> Mac OS. Still use windows on it via BootCamp accessed via Parallels vm.
>
>
> I returned my Surface Book after 11 months, Full refund. One replaced
> device (battery life was 3 hours, it was using battery as fast as it could)
> and the replacement was way better but the camera was failing. It often
> would not sleep while in bag (or wake up and battery would be used up). The
> XPS in comparison can be in my bag for a week and still be at 80% battery
> when I turned it back on.
>
> I wasn't happy, I wanted the Surface Book to be great. When it worked it
> was. I was hoping for USB-C on the refresh version but they just made it
> heavier (slightly more battery plus stop it being so top heavy) and
> slightly better gfx.
>
>
> There is no perfect laptop. You have to pick the one that has the
> strengths that align with how you want to use it. Bit like finding a
> woman... (haha very non PC comment, sorry! Kidding!)
>
>
> good luck!
>
> Stephen
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
>  <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> > on
> behalf of DotNet Dude  >
> *Sent:* Friday, 16 December 2016 9:21:20 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] HP Spectre x360 thoughts
>
> I recall Stephen Price had a Spectre x360. Maybe wait for him to join in
> this conversation with his thoughts.
>
> On Friday, 16 December 2016, Tom P  > wrote:
>
>> Not a requirement
>>
>> On Friday, 16 December 2016, mike smith  wrote:
>>
>>> It's a touch-screen, is that a feature you're looking for?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>>>
 I'll mostly be using it at my desk but I guess I'd like the option to
 travel with it so I wouldn't go for anything larger than a 15". RAM I
 thought 8GB would be enough but everyone keeps telling me 16GB is the way
 to go, SSD for speed obviously, 512GB storage would be enough unless 1TB is
 not much more expensive, screen res as high as possible given my budget,
 Windows 10, onsite service 3 or 4 years unless there is a higher offering.
 In the past I've had problems after 3 years right after not renewing the
 warranty. Not sure about driving 4K screens, I probably wouldn't but again
 if it does then I wouldn't complain. Budget is $3000 give or take $100 or
 $200 since it's a lot of money already anyway.

 Sorry I speak like a user :-)


 On 15 December 2016 at 21:51, Ken Schaefer 
 wrote:

> First thing, given there are a huge number of laptops out there, are
> what are your requirements/constraints/use cases…
>
>
>
> a)  What are the minimums you think you need (storage, RAM,
> battery life, screen res)
>
> b) What is your budget (or any other constraint – OS etc.)
>
> c)  Is this going to be mostly portable, working in customer
> offices, cafes, planes etc), or mostly sit on your desk. Do you want to
> drive 4K screens etc. off it on your desk
>
>
>
> Given that this is going to be your primary work machine, I guess it’s
> safe to assume you 

Re: [OT] node.js and express

[Bec C]

On Monday, 21 November 2016, Stephen Price 
wrote:

> Goodness, you are not alone.
>
> I'm more surprised that you are surprised, that's all.
>
>
> Some links to confirm you are not alone (and some funny, cause it's true,
> reading)
>
> https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-
> 2016-d3a717dd577f#.cdvrepjwi
>
>
> https://medium.com/@wob/the-sad-state-of-web-development-
> 1603a861d29f#.kqtp9oyq6
>
>
> There was a hilarious one written by a Java developer where she all but
> dissolved in tears and screaming... but I can't find it right now. Funny
> because it was pretty spot on, not because a poor soul was suffering.
>
>
> If this shit was easy, everyone would be doing it. There's job security in
> the pain, somewhere.
>
>
> That's quite a way of seeing it. haha I'll try it


> cheers
>
> Stephen
>
> p.s. All opinions and beliefs are my own. I'm not sure how they came to
> be, for that I can only blame those I've hung around, in real life and
> online.
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
>  <
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> > on
> behalf of Greg Keogh  >
> *Sent:* Monday, 21 November 2016 2:48:54 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express
>
>
> You're not alone Greg. It's like going back to spaghetti but everyone
>> around me doesn't agree.
>>
>
> Thanks heavens someone is sympathetic. I thought I was crazy, but I'm glad
> to know you are too! -- *Greg*
>

Re: [OT] node.js and express

[Bec C]

You're not alone Greg. It's like going back to spaghetti but everyone
around me doesn't agree. Hey just a few years ago I could create a a whole
web app in 10 minutes but now I have to go and get tens of packages in the
dependency chain and glue them together and become a plumber to make it all
work. Sure it can be done but is it an efficient use of my time?! Hey do
you want VS to do the setup and boring stuff for you? Nah I'd rather waste
my time and do it all myself manually. Yay... not! The web is dead to me.
Sorry a bit upset today

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, although I've been insulting JavaScript for years, I have always
> liked scripting. I decided to install node.js and run the tutorials on how
> to make a REST service. There are lots of tutorials, many of them
> contradictory or incomplete, or the documented steps don't work as
> expected. After confusion in the npm command when you need to *init* or
> *install* or use --save I got the express package installed. Then the
> express.cmd file which generates the app skeleton is not found, but later
> found two folders deep under .bin, and when you run it you don't know which
> folder should receive its output.
>
> I finished up with what might be a skeleton JS app web server comprising
> 403 files in 98 folders (and I haven't even installed all the packages they
> mention). It seems to have installed a *views* folder even though I have
> no "views" in a rest service, containing .jade files which I've never heard
> of, but searches reveal it's another JS library for templates. There a
> multiple templates libraries available and it looks like jade is now being
> phased out. I eventually run "node myserver.js" and it says it's listening
> on http://:::8081 but it's not responding and tcpview indicates that
> nothing is listening on that port.
>
> So after 3 hours of installing, reading, generating, fiddling and futzing
> I finished up with a gigantic morass of files and folders that don't even
> serve "hello world". I thought VS2015 might have JS project support, but it
> doesn't seem to (am I missing something?). Do I have to install another
> product like Code (or similar) to get a JS project IDE?
>
> I'm afraid all this has simply hardended my opinion that the whole
> JavaScipt culture and ecosystem is a lunatic asylum.
>
> *Greg K*
>

Re: [OT] Free Blog

[Bec C]

Everyone I know just uses blogger and wordpress

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Tom Rutter  wrote:

> Hi Folks
>
> A friend has asked where is a good place to start her new blog. I'm not a
> blogger myself so looking for any recommendations. I've heard people tease
> WordPress here and there but never used it so I don't get the jokes :)
>
> Cheers
>

Re: DDD Melbourne

[Bec C]

Haha burnt ticket then... you'll eventually have to cave in Greg :p

On Monday, 20 June 2016, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Yes, I know quite a few people who didn't even bother - which is a real
>> shame as they are passionate developers (though none are as passionate as
>> GK - Greg I would give you an honorary ticket if I could).
>>
>
> You're very kind. However, I'll burn my ticket if any presentation uses
> JavaScript ;-)
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Bec C]

That's what recruitment agencies typically ask for on a CV. I know how hard
it can be when recruiters look for an "angular expert" but the only angular
experience you have is some online videos. Hard to compete. Many devs lie
on the CV actually to get the job, sometimes it works.

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Tony Wright  wrote:

> I would find it a dubious stat, and certainly wouldn't rely on it.
>
> It only indicates your perception of where you are and may have no basis
> in reality.
>
> Best leave it out and wait for those employers that think it means
> something to request it from you.
>
> Better employers will be able to gauge where you are from your history and
> clever questioning.
>
> T.
> On 7 Jun 2016 3:49 PM, "Tom P"  > wrote:
>
>> What do the seniors here look for on a CV? I've been told by a few people
>> I should be giving myself a score out of 10 for competency in a particular
>> language/technology but I find it quite hard to do that and have it
>> actually mean anything.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>>
>> On 7 June 2016 at 10:22, Greg Keogh > > wrote:
>>
>>> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an
 AngularJS "expert" when I was looking.

>>>
>>> Oh hell! I'll never work again -- *GK*
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Bec C]

I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
"expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even
reaching that stage?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
> through.
>
> Thanks
> Tom
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Bec C]

Perfect for the government then lol

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:46 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 at 23:00 Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been
>> really loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill.
>> The API is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime
>> dependencies are trivial -- *GregK*
>>
>
> Here is a list of good things about table storage:
>
>-
>
> And here is a list of caveats for table storage:
>
>
>- No support for complex queries.
>- Indexes only exist as clustered indexes on the primary key.
>- No support for computed aggregates.
>- No support for joins.
>- No support for server-side stored procedures.
>- No ACLs support so security trimming must be done manually in the
>application logic.
>- No enforced schema or types. Tables may vary shape on a row-by-row
>basis.
>- No support for transactions.
>
>  And slow.
>
> David.
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Bec C]

Greg, am I correct in thinking azure table storage is only a cheaper option
when the number of reads is light? Preet mentions he will need reporting
and depending on how heavy those are hit azure table storage could get
expensive.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but am
 open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
 when I last worked with it 5 years ago.

 This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the
 cloud and security is a very high consideration.

>>>
> I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been really
> loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill. The API
> is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime dependencies
> are trivial -- *GregK*
>
>

Re: [OT] Patchd radiation reducer

[Bec C]

Where would I even look for the current scientific data?

Cheers

On Friday, 19 February 2016, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Has any body any information about how well the Patchd radiation reducing
>>> thing works? I can't seem to find much info besides the main site
>>> patchd.com
>>>
>>
> It's an old scam that feeds off fear.
>
> *The Federal Government’s safety watchdog, the Australian Radiation
> Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency (ARPANSA), does not recommend the use
> of products that attach to a phone and advertised as neutralising any
> harmful effects. “The claims are not consistent with current scientific
> knowledge and it is difficult, if not impossible, to verify any benefits,”
> it says in a fact sheet.*
>
> Greg
>

[OT] Patchd radiation reducer

[Bec C]

Hey all
Has any body any information about how well the Patchd radiation reducing
thing works? I can't seem to find much info besides the main site patchd.com

Cheers

Re: [OT] New PC no video

[Bec C]

"Normal" folk get a mac or a dell and dont build their own ;)

On Sunday, 24 January 2016, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> That's what I was thinking.
>> Could be a return or similar.
>>
>> Was the box all sealed when you got it?
>>
>> I've had an issue with a mobo before where I couldn't boot it. It turned
>> out the bios version wasn't compatible with my ram, but  elevated version
>> was.
>>
>
> Hello from my new PC! As I type, I'm installing VS2015, which is a fragile
> experience because it seems to stall sometimes for hours, and I come back
> and do something like cancel the install or reboot, and it redraws the
> window and tells me it's finished okay. Some peculiar timing or rendering
> "bug" there perhaps, but I've just overlooked it and never bothered to
> search or ask about it.
>
> Everything seemed to be nicely sealed, so I certainly hope they were
> virgin parts. My friend did update the BIOS after he got the video working,
> but it just adds another layer to the confusion about what on earth caused
> the video to be initially dead.
>
> The video misery isn't over, as the mobo doesn't support the 2560x1440 of
> my DELL 2711 monitor and Whirlpool discussions explain all this and hint
> that I will certainly need a video card. The details are boring and
> depressing, but it's a tragedy that in this day and age I still have to use
> a separate video card (more parts and noise). I get the impression the
> standards about video aren't too standard.
>
> The weirdest things are happening though, like the EPSON scanner dialog
> pops-up and all of the text in the modal dialog are question marks ??,
> so I guess there is some Unicode problem, but you can't make this shit up.
> My wife asked me "what do normal people do to get a new PC working
> properly", I said "I just don't know, I guess they finish up with a
> non-optimal partly working mess full of bloatware, toolbars, shortcuts,
> useless services and icons and they don't know any better". A strong
> argument for an iMac and the Apple Store and it's vetting process.
>
> *GK*
>

Re: [OT] JavaScript and the DOM

[Bec C]

IE dev tools should have the option to see the generated source

On Sunday, 20 September 2015, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, back in the mid 1990s as a challenge I wrote a web page with some
> raw JavaScript in it to generate a large table of random but vaguely
> realistic looking email addresses (using letter distribution frequencies).
> It was folklore back then that pages like this would "poison" spam address
> harvesters.
>
> Almost 20 years later I'm still getting daily 404 requests for that
> ancient page, so I found a copy, modernised it a bit and it still works.
> BUT ... in IE's View Source you do not see any of the html emitted by the
> script. Is by design? Does it mean that the spam harvesters would never
> drink their poison?
>
> Technically, I'm surprised that the browser is ignorant of script changes
> to the DOM. Can anyone explain the behaviour?
>
> *Greg*
>

Re: Odd text encoding

[Bec C]

I get your point Ken but is power really increasing at such a rate?

On Friday, 11 September 2015, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

> And what would those numbers have looked like 2 years ago? 4 years ago? 10
> years ago?
>
>
>
> Assuming computing power doubles every 18-24 months, then that 5444 years
> will become a lot less, relatively quickly.
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
>  [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> ] *On
> Behalf Of *Greg Keogh
> *Sent:* Friday, 11 September 2015 10:15 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet  >
> *Subject:* Re: Odd text encoding
>
>
>
> but because they were concerned about the possibility of running out of
> bigint values. (Clearly it’s a pity more maths isn’t taught at schools).
>
>
>
> My PC can do a for int loop up to 2^30 in about 20 seconds. To get to 2^63
> non-stop it will take 5444 years -- *GK*
>

Re: [OT] New laptop

[Bec C]

For prices like that you could get a macbook and never look back :-)

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:

 I can't see the top model anywhere but HP site. Also found a discount code
 so can get 15% off making the $2400 one down to $2040


 On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com
  wrote:

 Harvey Norman. I had an old Samsung that died 2 1/2 years after I bought
 it and I had their new for old warranty. I don't usually get the in store
 warranties but for some reason I had. I basically got in store credit for
 an equivalent spec'd machine. I added some extra ($500) to bring the specs
 up the the top model and was kind of impressed with that warranty so got it
 again on the new one. (this time around it's not for equivalent spec, its
 the original purchase price as store credit which is better because the
 specs get better over time but the price seems to stay constant).
 I think JB-HiFi also have that laptop but the QHD screen version might be
 exclusive to Harvey Norman (or it was at the time?)

 On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 at 07:24 Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:

 If u dont mind me asking where did you buy it from?


 On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Stephen Price 
 step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 HP x360, Spectre that is.
 On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 at 5:33 pm, Stephen Price 
 step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 I recently got a HP x360 (the pro version).
 512gb ssd. 8gb ram, qhd touch screen. What I like about it is that
 it's a laptop first that can flip around into tablet. Compared to surface
 pro which is tablet first that can be used like a laptop. Subtle but
 important difference (for me).
 Also it's mistaken for a MacBook because of its aluminium build. Great
 battery but not the 12.5 hrs they claim on their advertising. (It never
 is!)
 Really happy with it. Only thing I'd change would be dark keys not
 silver. If you put backlight on keys during the day you can't see the
 letters. My only complaint. Oh more ram as an option but 8gb is highest
 they go which is enough but always love more
 On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 at 2:45 pm, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 c# web dev mainly, 13-14 maybe 15, approx macbook pro weight.
 Considering macbook actually but no win key and higher price let me down


 On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com
 wrote:

 What are your requirements? Size? Weight? Workload?



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Rutter
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 August 2015 10:06 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] New laptop



 Tried out the surface and found it too small and awkward. Keyboard
 was a little annoying



 Cheers



 On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Dave Walker rangitat...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I've heard that the surface pro works really well with it.



 On 25 August 2015 at 22:01, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyone here got a new win 10 laptop lately? Recommendations?



 Cheers

Re: TypeScript summary

[Bec C]

+1 for Greg's comments. Coming from a sql background I found it relatively
easy to jump into c# and .net but my jump to JS wasn't so smooth

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 I hope this is my final essay on JavaScript (and so do you!). In summary,
 a few weeks ago I volunteered to write an in-browser script driven demo app
 which is simply a navigation stack of 4 screens. Angular is so currently so
 trendy I spent several hours attempting to learn and use it, but due to
 lack of an IDE, no debugging, no guidance, the custom terse syntax and
 complex dependencies I gave up (then I learn it's being rewritten in
 TypeScript anyway). I've expressed my anger at the 'zoo' of uncoordinated
 and competing JS libraries.

 I spent all of yesterday optimistically studying and trying TypeScript, as
 the familiar IDE and structure seemed ideal for someone from a C++/Java/C#
 background. Given my belief that the JS world is really chaotic, my overall
 conclusion is:

 *TypeScript is organised chaos.*

 I was reminded of moving from C to C++ 20 years ago. C was so freeform you
 could write spaghetti. C++ helped you write object oriented modular
 spaghetti. Just like that, TS is trying to tame the JS spaghetti and make
 it feel OOPish and respectable to people with my background, but it's still
 just putting a wedding gown on a pig.

 The good news is though, that once I eventually found guidance on how to
 organise multiple TS source files, how to use module { } like namespaces,
 when to use the reference, and why you use --out to concat files, then TS
 is probably the least worst option I've seen so far for writing large JS
 apps. At least you will finish up with organised modular chaos.

 So you might be able to tame JS with TS, but we are still stuck with the
 cumbersome DOM and jQuery. While trying to give my web page app behaviour I
 had to have jQuery reference web pages continuously open so I could
 remember the arcane and inconsistent syntax to do the simplest things like
 toggling visibility or setting text or class attributes. This isn't really
 a JS related problem, but I find manipulating the DOM from JS and jQuery
 tedious beyond endurance.
 In fact my endurance is exhausted. I will not write the demo and have
 commissioned someone else to do it. They write this sort of thing for a
 living, so I look forward to learning how they do it. I've learnt a lot in
 recent weeks anyway and have decided that for future work like this I will
 use TS and jQuery because they're the least worst (for now), and the rest
 of the JS ecosystem can go to hell.

 *Greg K*

Re: Last words on AngularJS

[Bec C]

IMO most .net devs won't really be happy doing any JS, via a library or
not. We just want to do the .net code and leave the front end to someone
else. Just like the Silverlight evangelists promised. Don't see that
happening though. Everyone seems to want a full stack developer now...and
I'm struggling.

On Tuesday, 25 August 2015, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.com wrote:

 Greg and others,



 One of Javascript’s strength is also it’s weakness. You can do literally
 anything with it. It is one of the most flexible and adaptable languages
 there is. This (IMHO) is one of the reasons it is popular. With that, many
 people twist and change it to what they think is best, and there are plenty
 of differing opinions, so here we are.



 As industry experts/veterans, it is always a challenge to look at the good
 parts of a framework/approach and:

 a)  Accept the bad bits and use it

 b)  Accept only the good bits and augment so that the bad bits are
 mitigated

 c)   Watch and provide input to try and steer
 communities/frameworks/languages in the desired direction

 d)  Do it all using the basic accepted tools currently available.
 This means things like just plain js/ jQuery/ES6(maybe using things like
 babel) etc.



 It is all in flux right now hence my call to wait it out for a bit (which
 libraries gain community momentum). To expect a strict guidance on how to
 do things in a particular framework for a large application is always going
 to be contentious in our field because of the “it depends” clause. There is
 no one way. The fact that you have had to research something quite a bit
 should at the very last have helped you form a much leaner and clearer
 picture of what you want, which can feed into the constant decision process
 as well as design.



 It is not easy but do not get too hung up on getting the perfect way via a
 particular tool (analysis paralysis). Pick the best possible that you think
 applies to you, weigh the risks and commit.  The rest you can tailor to
 what you want. Final note: On a current project we are using Angular,
 however there are legacy elements still working fine but using
 prototype.js. Point being, at the end of the day, if you are just using
 plan old JS (whether via a particular library) it will continue to work for
 a long long time.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com'); [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');] *On
 Behalf Of *Adrian Halid
 *Sent:* Monday, 24 August 2015 9:23 PM
 *To:* 'ozDotNet' ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com');
 *Subject:* RE: Last words on AngularJS



 In the world according to Github Javascript is now the number 1 popular
 programming language used in their repositories. Might be due to all the
 Javascript frameworks out thereJ.

 It is also interesting to see the climb of Java from 7th to 2nd over the
 last 7 years.



 https://github.com/blog/2047-language-trends-on-github







 *Regards*



 *Adrian Halid*



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com'); [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');] *On
 Behalf Of *Greg Keogh
 *Sent:* Monday, 24 August 2015 6:26 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com');
 *Subject:* Re: Last words on AngularJS



 Paul, most of what you said actually supports my anguish over the
 lottery of kits, tools, packages and standards (ha!) and fads in the
 JavaScript ecosystem.



 Over the last week or more since I expressed my dismay, I've been reading
 more and more about the zoo of frameworks that decorate JavaScript and
 attempt to hoist it up into the world of real languages. It's getting so
 stupid that the AngularJS seems to have decided to completely rewrite it
 for v2 using TypeScript, and someone got upset and split off to make
 Aurelia because it was more pure, but apparently they're friends again
 now, I think. It's worse than a zoo, it's like a steaming compost bin.



 I got all excited about TypeScript last weekend and I spent an afternoon
 reading about it and fiddling to see if it has promise. So I create a new
 HTML project and I get one small source file that shows the time. The
 sample code is raw JS from the 90s and I have to go looking for a way to
 integrate jQuery and/or AngularJS into the project. So dozens of
 opinionated pages later I discover I just about have to reinvent the steam
 engine to try an integrate them, and there are literally dozens of experts
 all claiming they know they best way to do it, with all sorts of cryptic
 pseudo-functional coding tricks. I simply want to know how to structure a
 large TS project, but there is no reliable guidance anywhere, it's just a
 dogs breakfast.



 This is what 

Re: Web API Accept type

[Bec C]

Is you tweak of the xml generic, ie. will happen to every xml response?
If so I'd imagine the method would be to override the default xml
serializer (or implement some interface) and tell web api to use your one
instead of the default. Testing which one is active by any means just seems
hacky. Or perhaps I've misunderstood

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 7:56 AM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Folks, in Web API when you sent an object back in the response it's
 automatically serialized as JSON or XML depending upon the Accept header.
 This is great, but I have to cheat the system slightly and send back
 manually tweaked XML only if the XML serializer is active. Rather than
 look at the raw text of the request Accept headers, is there is more formal
 way of knowing which serializer is active (if this means anything) --
 *GK*

Re: Web API and https timeout

[Bec C]

Does the https one work on its own (http one removed or disabled)?

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Folks, I've put a Web API project (created by the VS2015 Framework 4.5
 wizard) on my server. I've got two applications pointing to the folder with
 the app files, one site is http scheme and the other site has a certificate
 for https. The app responds and works okay with http, but it times out for
 https.

 http://www.gregsite.com.au/myapp/v3/blah?p=glop (works)
 https://www.gregsite.net.au/myapp/v3/blah?p=glop (times out)

 I'm quite disappointed, and I can't find any special config settings or
 other tricks and web searches don't help as usual so far. Anyone got a clue?

 *Greg K*

Re: Web API and https timeout

[Bec C]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does the https one work on its own (http one removed or disabled)?


 They are completely independent, in different sites and different app
 pools, they only share the executable files folder (and I know the
 permissions are okay). The https one times out under all experiments I've
 run so far. I'm really surprised because REST style services and projects
 are relatively simple compared to WCF services where I've previously had to
 tweak the config file for https or http (which took hours of research!). I
 expected it to just GO! -- *GK*


I'd just start with the https one alone and get that working just to ensure
it has nothing to do with the sharing of files. If it doesn't work alone
then https isn't configured correctly. Sorry not clear if you've already
tried this.
Also I think there is a enableSSL or similar somewhere in the project
properties in case you've missed it.

Re: Web API and https timeout

[Bec C]

Haha classic

On Friday, 7 August 2015, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 OK FOLKS! Those of you who are sys admins don't laugh at what I just
 found, by accidentally noticing that all of my web sites where slowly
 vanishing throughout the afternoon...

 Around 11am this morning I finished migrating 6 of my domains from one
 provider to another. I set the DNS A records for all domains to point to my
 home server's IP address. However, I transposed two digits of the address
 and as a result, all domains slowly vanished as the records were propagated
 around the globe. That's certainly why my https test failed, then an hour
 later the http test failed (as the domain vanished).

 At 17:30 all my domains were invisible, so I just put the correct IP back
 in all of them. Now I wait and maybe later tonight I'll find that my REST
 API is working as I originally expected.

 Amazing eh?! -- *Greg K*

 On 7 August 2015 at 17:35, Bec C bec.usern...@gmail.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bec.usern...@gmail.com'); wrote:


 On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gfke...@gmail.com'); wrote:

 Does the https one work on its own (http one removed or disabled)?


 They are completely independent, in different sites and different app
 pools, they only share the executable files folder (and I know the
 permissions are okay). The https one times out under all experiments I've
 run so far. I'm really surprised because REST style services and projects
 are relatively simple compared to WCF services where I've previously had to
 tweak the config file for https or http (which took hours of research!). I
 expected it to just GO! -- *GK*


 I'd just start with the https one alone and get that working just to
 ensure it has nothing to do with the sharing of files. If it doesn't work
 alone then https isn't configured correctly. Sorry not clear if you've
 already tried this.
 Also I think there is a enableSSL or similar somewhere in the project
 properties in case you've missed it.

Re: Sandcastle and Visual Studio 2015

[Bec C]

I recall having these sorts of issues with VS back in Vista but didn't look
into it further. Now I run everything as admin because I don't care :p


On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 After stuffing around wasting another hour I think I've uncovered the
 cause of shfbproj files being not supported, but I'm not sure who is to
 blame.

 My usual 'greg' login account is a normal user, when I need to elevate I
 have a dummy user called 'max' (aka Max Power from a Simpsons episode) who
 is an Admin. When installing Sandcastle I was asked to elevate to be max,
 so it looks like the VS extensions went in under max's profile. Confirmed
 by running VS2015 as max, then I'm asked to upgrade the help project and it
 works. Running vs2015 as greg shows no help project support at all.

 Then I uninstall, make greg an Admin and reinstall, return greg to a
 normal user. Now I have help project support in VS2015.

 So I'm not sure who to blame: Does VS not support extensions for all
 users? Does Sandcastle install extensions per-user incorrectly? Did my
 greg/max flipping convention upset something? Uh?! Anyway, by jumping
 through a few hoops I now have VS2015 and Sandcastle project support going
 again.

 *Greg K*

 On 6 August 2015 at 18:17, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Folks, since installing the previous Visual Studio and installing 2015 I
 can't open help builder projects (*.shfbproj files) in my solution, they
 say incompatible. I reinstalled the latest help software and it all
 installs perfectly and ticks all the boxes to say all of the VS support is
 ready. I can't find any useful help on this and I'm not sure which
 component to blame. The help builder GUI runs fine by itself. So it looks
 like some plugin for VS is missing, but all searches are futile so far.

 Any ideas anyone?! -- *Greg K*

Re: [OT] Chairs for home office

[Bec C]

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Jorke Odolphi jo...@jorke.net wrote:

  I’ve been using a herman miller setu at home for the past month – cannot
 recommend it enough. No arm rests, set height and slides (on a wooden
 floor) - amazing chair – I’ve done a couple of 16 hour days, I would
 usually be physically tired and sore etc – totally gone.

  don’t listen to idiots that may tell you to use a stand up desk, when
 you have to do real work invest in a really good chair for your health – it
 has a 12 year warranty.

 Idiots? That's harsh


  http://livingedge.com.au/shop/226-setu-chair.html



   From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Dave Walker
 Reply-To: ozDotNet
 Date: Wednesday, 29 July 2015 4:41 pm
 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: [OT] Chairs for home office

   Hi all,

  back working in a home office and my chair is giving me conniptions.
 I've been looking into investing into one that's going to last me a long
 time.

  In previous companies I've used Aerons and they are awesome though
 really expensive. I've heard recently good things about the Steelcase Leap
 http://www.steelcase.com/products/office-chairs/leap/ as well so was
 wondering if anyone else had any other suggestions?

  Cheers,
 Dave

Re: [OT] Chairs for home office

[Bec C]

Feelings aside I highly recommend both sitting and standing (alternate). It
really helped me. Add in a few basic stretches every hour and it will help
you down the road

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Dave Walker rangitat...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jorke feels very strongly about this.

 On 29 July 2015 at 22:15, Bec C bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Jorke Odolphi jo...@jorke.net wrote:

  I’ve been using a herman miller setu at home for the past month –
 cannot recommend it enough. No arm rests, set height and slides (on a
 wooden floor) - amazing chair – I’ve done a couple of 16 hour days, I would
 usually be physically tired and sore etc – totally gone.

  don’t listen to idiots that may tell you to use a stand up desk, when
 you have to do real work invest in a really good chair for your health – it
 has a 12 year warranty.

 Idiots? That's harsh


  http://livingedge.com.au/shop/226-setu-chair.html



   From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Dave Walker
 Reply-To: ozDotNet
 Date: Wednesday, 29 July 2015 4:41 pm
 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: [OT] Chairs for home office

   Hi all,

  back working in a home office and my chair is giving me conniptions.
 I've been looking into investing into one that's going to last me a long
 time.

  In previous companies I've used Aerons and they are awesome though
 really expensive. I've heard recently good things about the Steelcase
 Leap http://www.steelcase.com/products/office-chairs/leap/ as well so
 was wondering if anyone else had any other suggestions?

  Cheers,
 Dave

Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story

[Bec C]

There should be a setting to disallow updates on mobile data. I know iOS
has this. It's saved me so many times

On Friday, 3 July 2015, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here's a TGIF story that hints at a deep technical and business/culture
 problem with Android phones and Google. I don't think this problem is so
 bad on other phone brands, is it?

 * Last December I downloaded several app updates to my unbranded
 development Nexus 5 and I didn't read (or understand) one of the screens
 and I accidentally downloaded a complete OS update and blew $135 in 30
 seconds because I wasn't at home on the wireless. I had to ring Telstra and
 beg them for a discount, and luckily they gave me a $100 discount because I
 had never exceeded quota before. After rebooting the phone I find it has
 completely changed appearance to be materiel design and I can't find
 anything, and some buttons have turned into little darts leaving me
 floundering to even figure out how to send an SMS.

 * Two weeks ago I wanted to show some family photos on my phone to a
 friend. I click the usual Photos icon I'm presented with an unfamiliar
 incomprehensible screen about synching and Google+ apps. I don't have time
 to read this woffle, so I click crap everywhere to get out of it and back
 to my photos. I eventually arrive at the photos and find they have a new
 arrangement by date group, scroll differently and the older ones I want are
 missing. I scroll and click until hell froze but I could not find the
 photos and I was livid with rage that someone had subverted my phone from
 under my nose. The next day I stick the phone into my PC and eventually
 found the photos, and I also found an obscure Data Folders menu I
 previously missed that displays the old photos. After an hour of web
 searching I could not find a clear explanation for what had changed. It has
 something to do with the default photo app changing to Google+ (which I
 don't even voluntarily use).

 * One week ago I tried to take some photos at a concert and I suddenly
 find the camera app has completely changed with little preview dots and a
 weird 3D warping preview and I have no idea what the screen is showing or
 telling me. Once again I don't have time to sit down and fiddle around with
 menus and buttons to find the original phone screen, so I guess it's
 working and I press the button and it looks like it's taking photos. When I
 get home I discover I have taken no photos at all, but was actually inside
 some sort of panorama feature that I don't care about or need. By fiddling
 with the new camera screen menus I eventually find it has 4 modes and one
 of them is the plain camera. So this vital app changed under my nose and
 the default was something useless and confusing.

 You'd think the UI of a phone would be easy to navigate, but after having
 it for 18 months I still get completely lost trying to find some setting
 and often stumble into screens that I've never seen before and are
 incomprehensible (either because I never went there before or the OS or
 app has silently changed). The other day I was so f**ing angry with the
 phone's UI and navigation that I threw it across my desk, and it popped
 into a configuration screen I didn't know existed. Wonders never cease!

 Okay, so what the hell is happening in the Android phone world. Who's
 running this circus and who the hell has the right to completely change the
 OS and UI of vital apps secretly while I'm looking the other way? Imagine
 if they built aircraft like this ...who'd fly?

 *Greg K*

Re: Best unit testing tools

[Bec C]

+1 for BDD

On Tuesday, 31 March 2015, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au
wrote:

 BDD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior-driven_development
 There is a BDD package for .Net as well.

 Once you learn to write you test out of small bite-size pieces you'll love
 it's power.
 I hate unit tests. I think they are easy for simple code that is not worth
 testing and too complicated to setup for really complicated code.
 However once you learn BDD and figure out how to compose tests you can
 actually start to test complex components instead of small bits of code.


 On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:42 AM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','david.burs...@gmail.com'); wrote:

 Xunit, moq, resharper, ncrunch, fluentassertions

 On 31 March 2015 at 09:24, William Luu will@gmail.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','will@gmail.com'); wrote:

 Perhaps start from the first post of that series -
 https://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2015/01/29/clean-tests-a-primer/

 The author mentions Fixie, which is a fairly new testing framework -
 http://fixie.github.io


 On 30 March 2015 at 22:23, William Luu will@gmail.com
 javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','will@gmail.com'); wrote:

 We're reviewing what to use for a new project and I'm leaning towards
 the below:

 Unit testing framework: xunit (2.0 was recently released)
 Mocking: FakeItEasy

 Also, take a look at AutoFixture.

 See -
 https://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2015/03/24/clean-tests-isolation-with-fakes/



 On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 21:49 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 What are people using these days to unit test code dot net code, and if
 not visual studio, why?

 Regards Tony



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